Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Sabre on July 17, 2013, 04:40:59 PM

Title: Trains, barges, and trucks!
Post by: Sabre on July 17, 2013, 04:40:59 PM
Okay, seriously, when was the last time you saw a train in the MA, let alone attacked it?  Heck, we seldom bother to attack road convoys or barges, either (and those don't shoot back).  My thinking is, how do you make them relevant? How do you make players want to attack them and defend them?  Historically, attacks against transportation infrastructure such as bridges, rolling stock, rail yards, and locomotive and truck factories (collectively referred to as "the transportation option" in planning the Allied bombing campaign) were extremely effective (more so than the "POL option" of attacking energy targets).

I want to throw out a few ideas to stimulate discussion.  First, how about the ability of players to spawn the convoys, like a supply run only on steroids, with man-able ack for defense?  How about trains supply towns, and towns supply their attendant base with truck convoys? How about a factory for trains/trucks as part of strat?  How about a major rail yard in each sector (attached to a base town, perhaps)? Just a few ideas to get the train rolling, so to speak.
Title: Re: Trains, barges, and trucks!
Post by: Mongoose on July 18, 2013, 10:17:51 AM
  I attack enemy supply vehicles any chance I get.  The problem is, I can't find them very often.  :headscratch:
Title: Re: Trains, barges, and trucks!
Post by: gyrene81 on July 18, 2013, 10:23:12 AM
personally, i'd like to see the hq set in a megacity and more factories in smaller cities scattered through the zones.
Title: Re: Trains, barges, and trucks!
Post by: ImADot on July 18, 2013, 10:34:40 AM
Trains supply the factories, so you need to fly around the mega-city strat.
Convoys/barges supply the bases.

You'll see the train tracks/roads if you're low enough. The end of the line is a little shack near the object being supplied. Just follow the line away and you'll come across the train/convoy as it moves from the shack at the beginning of the line towards the base. You can't see the start/end point for barges, but they're pretty easy to see as they are large and slow.

Every traincar/truck/barge that is destroyed will lengthen the downtime of base objects. If anyone is concerned enough about keeping objects destroyed longer than the default (if full supplies reach the base), they would seek out and destroy the convoys.

Not everyone plays the game the same way or even knows/cares about supply lines.
Title: Re: Trains, barges, and trucks!
Post by: icepac on July 18, 2013, 10:44:19 AM
If you're not seeing them, you are limiting your game experience.

Here's an example of how trains enhance the gaming experience.

I noticed a spawn pretty close to our city the other day and knew some enemy tanker would eventually drive out to strats so I spawned a M18 and drove out to intercept.

As I drove, I heard the explosions of the trains that someoene was hitting just outside of strat flashing range and waited to hear his tank start up before I moved in and shot him.

Sure, I could have upped an A20 and spent 4 minutes to collect the kill but that takes zero creativity or even skill.
Title: Re: Trains, barges, and trucks!
Post by: jeffdn on July 18, 2013, 10:59:10 AM
Regarding the trains, what if they puffed out smoke like trains did back in the day? That might make them easier to see!
Title: Re: Trains, barges, and trucks!
Post by: ImADot on July 18, 2013, 11:10:24 AM
Regarding the trains, what if they puffed out smoke like trains did back in the day? That might make them easier to see!

They do...but you need to get low to see it, as it doesn't look like the smoke from a burning plane and doesn't stream back for miles. There's even a train whistle you can hear if your engine is off.
Title: Re: Trains, barges, and trucks!
Post by: Lusche on July 18, 2013, 11:26:50 AM
Okay, seriously, when was the last time you saw a train in the MA, let alone attacked it?  Heck, we seldom bother to attack road convoys or barges, either (and those don't shoot back).  My thinking is, how do you make them relevant?


They already are relevant, it's just that this relevance is being largely ignored. Ever since the strat update, there has been no tour I was flying in, in which I did not undertake several convoy busting missions. I have occasionally extended downtimes of killed field objects way beyond what the factory level indicated by simply cutting the supply line.
Title: Re: Trains, barges, and trucks!
Post by: SmokinLoon on July 18, 2013, 11:37:49 AM

They already are relevant, it's just that this relevance is being largely ignored. Ever since the strat update, there has been no tour I was flying in, in which I did not undertake several convoy busting missions. I have occasionally extended downtimes of killed field objects way beyond what the factory level indicated by simply cutting the supply line.

Exactly.  If a player would immerse themselves a bit deeper in to the experience and think outside the box they'd know that destroying convoys and barges can extend the down times of strategic OBJ (ammo bunkers, barracks, radar, fuel tanks, auto ack, and town buildings) by 54 seconds per truck or barge destroyed.  It adds up and can ultimately play havoc with a resupply effort.  Every ten minutes a convoy spawns and every ten minutes the field can be set back for a net loss of 7 minutes (or net gain of 3 vs 10 mins). 

I highly encourage players to pay attention to convoys and barges while near an enemy field.  When near an enemy strategic complex and you're low enough and have the means I highly suggest to pay attention to the trains as well.  I've not done the leg work just yet to see just how the destruction of trains effect the resupply of the factories or fields, but will eventually.  Looshy?  Have you tested out the ramifications for destroying trains at the complex? 
Title: Re: Trains, barges, and trucks!
Post by: mthrockmor on July 18, 2013, 11:42:43 AM
AH should consider adding some logistical opportunities.

I have long thought we need to add Liberty ships and small merchant fleets. Maybe a serious train schedule. I remember when we had zone strats. Get back to zone strats with the major strats. Then add merchant fleets or large trains that resupply the zone strats. Create an incentive for a mission of 20 Beufighters to hit a merchant fleet, and a reason to defend that merchant fleet.

With maps that don't suit a merchant fleet, it is a large train or series of trains that resupply the zone strat. Again, a raid of a dozen P-38s or Fw-190F8s hitting the trains, which now need a CAP to protect them. If the resupply effort is destroyed maybe all air bases can no longer support drops tanks or fuel load outs go to 75%.

Create the incentives to aggressive prosecute and defend logistics.

I like that idea.

boo
Title: Re: Trains, barges, and trucks!
Post by: Lusche on July 18, 2013, 12:08:23 PM
Looshy?  Have you tested out the ramifications for destroying trains at the complex? 

Yes, I have done that in a custom arena with default MA settings except 'protect objects'
Works just the same as base resupply convoys, i.e. totally destroying one train is increasing the downtimes of the factory building it supplies by about 7 minutes.
Title: Re: Trains, barges, and trucks!
Post by: SmokinLoon on July 18, 2013, 05:27:46 PM
Yes, I have done that in a custom arena with default MA settings except 'protect objects'
Works just the same as base resupply convoys, i.e. totally destroying one train is increasing the downtimes of the factory building it supplies by about 7 minutes.


What is the time interval for trains?  10 minutes?  You're slakin' with your information.   ;)  Oh, and thanks.   :D
Title: Re: Trains, barges, and trucks!
Post by: Lusche on July 18, 2013, 05:32:25 PM
What is the time interval for trains?  10 minutes? 

As far as I know, yes.
Title: Re: Trains, barges, and trucks!
Post by: olds442 on July 18, 2013, 07:30:38 PM
Regarding the trains, what if they puffed out smoke like trains did back in the day? That might make them easier to see!
A good running coal burning steam train actually makes a lot less smoke than you think. Thick black smoke is most of the time too much coal and not enough fire in the firebox.
Title: Re: Trains, barges, and trucks!
Post by: ScottyK on July 18, 2013, 09:44:43 PM
  I would love for the return of trains (not just at strats). It would be funny to see NOE missions busted up again if they are not paying attention.

  When i started i remember on several occasions being popped by the trains while RTB.

  Also if they were reimplemented have the railroad tracks visible on the map if selected. (similar to spawn points) this way players could  have an idea of the routes taken by the trains and could do jabo runs on them.
Title: Re: Trains, barges, and trucks!
Post by: ImADot on July 18, 2013, 10:04:58 PM
  I would love for the return of trains (not just at strats). It would be funny to see NOE missions busted up again if they are not paying attention.

  When i started i remember on several occasions being popped by the trains while RTB.

  Also if they were reimplemented have the railroad tracks visible on the map if selected. (similar to spawn points) this way players could  have an idea of the routes taken by the trains and could do jabo runs on them.

When a terrain is created, the maker has a choice of train or truck convoy to supply bases. The recommendation (or is it a requirement) is that trucks supply bases. The terrain creator also creates the clipboard map, so he can put whatever graphics (like roads/railways or other highlights) he deems appropriate.
Title: Re: Trains, barges, and trucks!
Post by: Lusche on July 19, 2013, 09:27:56 AM
When a terrain is created, the maker has a choice of train or truck convoy to supply bases. The recommendation (or is it a requirement) is that trucks supply bases.

Considering I have never seen trains resupplying anything other than factories in my now 8 years MA flying, I would had assumed it's a requirement.
Title: Re: Trains, barges, and trucks!
Post by: Sabre on July 22, 2013, 10:34:45 AM
Some good thoughts and comments. I especially like the idea of showing rail and roads on the clipboard maps.  I should also like to say that I miss-spoke in my original comment.  I meant to say, "How can we make trains/trucks/barges more relevant?"  With all the strat sitting in one place, as it is now in the MA, I'd venture to say that most will not bother with attacking trains.  The perception is, you'll get more bang for the buck attacking the strat target itself, so why fly deep into enemy territory just to hit the trains?  The fact is, warfare in WWII ran on rails (logistically speaking); trucks were a luxury that only the USA enjoyed in regular abundance.  Also note, I think it would be cool if you could destroy a bridge and prevent movement of trucks and trains for some time.  It would require more ord than taking out the vehicles themselves, but the disruption would last longer.  Again, just some food for thought.
Title: Re: Trains, barges, and trucks!
Post by: BBP on July 22, 2013, 02:06:45 PM
You have a very good idea. Basically you are saying make these things relevant to the game. I'm with you............they mean nothing right now. They are just there. Attacking them doesn't get you anything or anywhere. Lets make them count for something. Our bases are sitting there and are never in danger unless they are attacked. What if every 5 minutes you had to receive a Barge, Train or Truck of supplies or your base goes "BYE" "BYE". Now that would be worth fighting for! :devil


KIMO
Title: Re: Trains, barges, and trucks!
Post by: EskimoJoe on July 22, 2013, 03:58:13 PM
I would like to see a "Branch of Support" system for strategic targets. Trains supply cities, which in turn send trains to supply staging bases, which then send trains, convoys, or barges on a long road to a refueling point (something like where convoys are spawned now), then to the towns and bases. Logistics and supply difficulties are huge issues in any conflict. I'd like to see a more in-depth system to what we have here.
Title: Re: Trains, barges, and trucks!
Post by: Scherf on July 23, 2013, 07:40:22 PM
There's at least one MA map which shows the supply routes, haven't played for a while so can't say which one.

But you can add me to the list of folks who'd love to see a LOT more trains and trucks running back and forth. Hell, I'd even like to see drone transport / training aircraft plying their routes...
Title: Re: Trains, barges, and trucks!
Post by: mbailey on July 23, 2013, 07:58:22 PM
AH should consider adding some logistical opportunities.

I have long thought we need to add Liberty ships and small merchant fleets. Maybe a serious train schedule. I remember when we had zone strats. Get back to zone strats with the major strats. Then add merchant fleets or large trains that resupply the zone strats. Create an incentive for a mission of 20 Beufighters to hit a merchant fleet, and a reason to defend that merchant fleet.

 
I like that idea.

 

Right there with ya   :aok