Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Perrine on July 17, 2013, 06:05:56 PM
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Long work hours leave me no room to download the update and play :cry
So, what do you guys/gals think and feel about the new Yaks?
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Pre-flight anticipation is for the plane to feel not as fast as a mustang (but similar), and not as nimble as a spit but maybe a 109 (like a bloated early-mid model 109 with less rudder/tail authority). If the books are right, it should have the potential in speed and maneuverability to hold its own in AH, but still won't be the most user/pilot friendly fighter in the game (small/squat cockpit, and I've read a couple sources and heard from a couple pilots that it's tail/rudder surfaces (or rather, lack there of) is the plane's real problem, often times resulting in departures from controlled flight if you were careless and/or heavy with the yak's ailerons.
It's not a 152, and due to not having a similar CG I don't think it will have similar problems with tail-first slides from 28k to terra firma, but (books, manuals, and pilots have indicated) it should have a similar departure from controlled flight at high speeds along the yaw axis if one gets too heavy/agressive with the ailerons in a roll/break. I will be looking for this in AH tonight while flying the plane.
The one thing I don't know to believe the documentation on though, is that supposedly this described manuever doesn't wipe all your speed and you recover (maybe the plane recovers itself) rather quickly after inducing the uncontrolled departure, and in the original forward direction. (You're going 350 knts, slam the stick over, tumble with your arse infront of your prop a couple times in the air, and miraculopusly will recover heading in the same general direction and just a bit slower than before.... :confused: :huh .... sounds way too Hollywood/unreal to be true!)
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I have not flown the updated Yak-9U yet, but the Yak-3 feels like it accelerates like a banshee. It is light on the controls and is a dream to fly. It is fast, rolls well, climbs well, etc. It does everything well. As I've always said, shots taken have to be very true, there is no room for "ranging", or "testing the lead aim", etc. You must only fire when the shots are true, the ammo is simply too short in supply. With that being said I earned 2 kills my first time up in the -3. I happen to better a C205 and a 190D-9 in ACM's and was able to get right on their six and rip off enough parts to get them to bail or crash. I was able to evade enemy fire well enough to get home and land safely.
I did fly the -7B in the TA, it feels heavy. I've not flown the -9T yet. On paper, the -9U is faster than the -3, but I'm most curious as to how they compare while pushing the envelope in maneuvers.
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The -9U is slightly faster and has a significantly higher top speed at altitude, but it does not accelerate as well and it seems to depart from controlled flight in a turn more abruptly. The -3 is, I think, a significantly superior fighter for typical AH combat altitudes. It feels like the turn rate on the -3 is a lot higher and its climb rate is certainly higher, well over 4000fpm initially.
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I took a screen shot of the Yak-3 climbing. At 2,000 feet, it was climbing at just about 4,700 fpm. In the image, it's still climbing at well over 4,500 fpm approaching 4,000 feet. Fuel load was 25%, zero burn rate. That's competitive with the Spit16 and 109K4 at low altitude. Acceleration is similar to the La-7, taking 7.97 seconds to go from 150 mph to 200 mph at sea level. Max speed at 50 feet ASL was 351 mph.
(http://www.mediafire.com/convkey/f2ff/jkzuk2suepc1p65fg.jpg)
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Just for information, that "4700" number is not on autoclimb, and at 25% fuel, giving you 7 minutes of flight time. Realistically, you will only see about 4200fpm for a brief period on the deck.
For comparison, the K4 (often seen as one of AH's premier performers in terms of engine power) can pull over 5200fpm off of autoclimb at 25% fuel (still giving only 8 minutes of flight time though), IIRC.
In my opinion, the Yak-3 is a slightly above average fighter performance wise. Its funny to see all the orgasming about how fast the Yak-3 is, while I'm chasing one down. But what will make it dangerous is that it packs performance AND maneuverability.
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It's fast around the bends? Angles win fights.
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Its about time we had a "Proletariat" plane that can hold its own against the Narzzie horde :)
Its has decent range,armament and good climb rate :)
I am sure that this will a plane that will be flown alot :old:
Tilt from The Few has had to be sedated and sent to bed, he is "Spent" with all the excitement :old:
I shot down Coombzy from The Few in a Yak 3 he was like a baby seal waiting to be despatched :rofl
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downloading now and will give a FPH's honest opinion. :aok
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I hear that the Yak-3 is a sport and likes candid photography.
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Yak7 is the most fun. Yak3 is going to be potent that's for sure
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Awesome. Nuff said :aok
PS: don't perk it because the ammo load out is only enough for 5-6 fighter kills max.
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The TrackIr works well with the yak3 with no seat head rest or armor. About the best view in the game.
Tried a tankful and got 2 kills in a short time that fuel last.
I use the P38 most of the time but on a base defense of a horde attack, the yak3 might be the best plane in the game for that. Tried a tankful and got 2 kills in a short time that fuel last.
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Awesome. Nuff said :aok
PS: don't perk it because the ammo load out is only enough for 5-6 fighter kills max.
I shot down Coombzy in a Yak3 on Yak3 action, he immediately logged :rofl
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I shot down Coombzy in a Yak3 on Yak3 action, he immediately logged :rofl
i don't blame him! :rofl
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Yep very nice plane im going to put some time into the Yak 3 for sure.
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I have only fought one Yak so far which was a 9T flown by Wmaker. After a few merges this soon turned into a one circle, flaps out, stall horn blaring turnfight on the deck. I recall being able to outturn the old 9T with no problem in this sort of fight with my F6F but this went on for ages with no real progress being made by either of us. Eventually some friendlies showed up and engaged Wmaker so I broke off, but it was a fun fight while it lasted. Not exactly a scientific test as I don't recall fighting an old 9T flown by anyone of Wmaker's skill, but I'll certainly give Yaks a bit more respect now.
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According to the patch notes there were no FM changes to the 9T and U. Wmaker is just better than the other 9T pilots.
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My first impressions are the 3 climbs better then the 9. The 9 has more zoom and dive, the 9 holds together better at high speed, the 3 is slightly more agile. They feel like they accelerate the same. The 3 has an incredible snap turn in the 200 mph range and it does feel a bit more responsive. A very worthwhile build.
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I have only fought one Yak so far which was a 9T flown by Wmaker. After a few merges this soon turned into a one circle, flaps out, stall horn blaring turnfight on the deck. I recall being able to outturn the old 9T with no problem in this sort of fight with my F6F but this went on for ages with no real progress being made by either of us. Eventually some friendlies showed up and engaged Wmaker so I broke off, but it was a fun fight while it lasted. Not exactly a scientific test as I don't recall fighting an old 9T flown by anyone of Wmaker's skill, but I'll certainly give Yaks a bit more respect now.
It was a lot of fun! There were couple situations where I really should have made smarter decisions in that fight but was probably too tired to make them. :) One thing that takes a bit getting used to is the counter clockwise turning prop as I've not really flown the Yaks except couple rare instancies.
I don't think the flight model has changed per say since it wasn't mentioned in the release notes. One thing that of course does make a difference is the new 20mm loadout which I had in that fight. It is 339lbs lighter than the 37mm and also I had taken 75% fuel instead of 100%.
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I am permanently sedated these days Zack........ The Mem Sahib advises it's for my own good.
Playing with the 3 last night I was very happy. SA ( as stated above with TIR) is superb. It's better now on the 9's to.
Very manouverable it changes direction very crisply and positively. It's basically catch>point>shoot.
Flat accel good but give it the shallowest of dive angles and watch it catch stuff up! Not a thorough test but nose down there was little I could not catch. Twice caught 51's in dives they had started first....... I don't do that in the La7. Infact just as the pilot notes say the problem is controlling the dive speed.
The needle quickly gets to 525-550 upon which the lightest touch on the stick removes both elevators. ( same for the 7b). I don't remember this on the old 9's but it could be I just was not trying.
Twice found I was reversing A5's using flat scissors!..... Maybe I was just lucky.
Very nice for picking.......
Still stuff to learn and encumbered by my general suckage still other stuff to work out. After all when you no longer have youth and skill on your side the only alternative is experience and treachery. :devil
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Just for information, that "4700" number is not on autoclimb, and at 25% fuel, giving you 7 minutes of flight time. Realistically, you will only see about 4200fpm for a brief period on the deck.
"Just for information", I saw 4,700 fpm using autoclimb. What you see in the image is 4,565 fpm in autoclimb, beginning at sea level at 160 mph TAS. I've been testing aircraft in Aces High for more than 10 years. I use Badboy's Bootstrap calculator, the best tool available for quantifying turn performance. I test to reveal maximum performance. The standard used is 25% fuel. Obviously, a full fuel load will reduce climb and acceleration. However, like 109s, the Yaks have a rather small (meaning light) fuel capacity. Thus, you will often be flying with little more than 50% fuel aboard. A light Yak-3 will climb with a 25% fuel 109G-14 below 3k, and turn circles around it. On the other hand, the 109G-2 can give the Yak-3 fits, especially below 200 mph. The 109F-4 will out-turn the Yak, but is at a disadvantage if the fight goes vertical below 5k. I envision that the Yak-3 will be an excellent match against the Ki-84 in duels.
Climb rate and acceleration fall off steadily above 5,000 feet. Again, at sea level, the Yak-3 is among the best in the game. At 10k, not so much. It is literally the inverse of the Spitfire 14, which gets better and better as the altitude goes up. At 10,000 feet I saw 381 mph, which is identical to the Typhoon. However, the Typhoon requires WEP, the Yak can make that speed until it runs out of gas.
The Yak-3 was designed to be a lightweight battlefield air superiority fighter. Down low, it is very capable. I do not think it is much of a furball fighter, due to the lack of hitting power. Snap shots are rarely fatal to opposing fighters.
Doing some offline tests, I found that it will shed its ailerons at about 525 mph in a dive. It begins groaning around 500 mph. Without ailerons, the Yak-3 will roll right, and it cannot be countered by rudder. To get the wings level, you must reduce power to near idle, and stand on full left rudder.
Turn rate: Astonishing instantaneous turn rate at corner speed. Sustained, its turn radius just about matches the Spit16 (no flaps). It can fly circles a tad smaller than the La-7, both without and with flaps. Flaps don't begin to drop until around 150 mph, reducing their usefulness. Again, not unlike the Spit16. The max gear speed is right at 200 mph. Outward visibility (especially forward) is the best of any fighter (except, perhaps, the I-16), with no reinforcing structure in the windscreen.
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Widewing:
That is really excellent information. Thank you for doing that. If you don't mind, I would like to know how it compares to the Brewster. I assume the Yak 3 and the Brew will turn at low alt about the same. I assume that the Yak 3 will do just about everything else better. But those are assumptions.
Just an observation from someone whose ACM skills are not great. I think the Yak 3 handles really well and the noise level is very easy. I do realize that the noise level is related to what sound pack you use. Someone mentioned recovery from a flight departure..... turning stall I guess. My first impression is that it recovers very easily. But I haven't yet explored all the various maneuvers.
It might be a good first or second fighter for newbies.
Tex78
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First impressions,Yak3 is a beast. :aok I'll be flying this over the La7 for quick base defense.
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Any eny changes to the 9U and 9T?
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One thing that of course does make a difference is the new 20mm loadout which I had in that fight. It is 339lbs lighter than the 37mm and also I had taken 75% fuel instead of 100%.
That would probably account for the difference I noticed. At the time I wasn't aware there was a 20mm option.
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Yak-3 moved into my top 5 my 2nd sortie. (First one I got vulched lol) it's for a great "fighter pilots plane"- bruv119
I have to agree with him 100% on that it's not perfect but with someone that has a better than average shot its a freaking beast. All the ammo you need to make 5-6 kills a sortie.
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Yak-3 is superb. It can keep up with a p-51 in a dive, even though control surfaces break off at ~550 mph. Surprisingly, it doesn't seem to have any issues from compression, just that control surfaces break off at vey high speed. Very easy to control, I give it a solid A :aok
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Just for information", I saw 4,700 fpm using autoclimb. What you see in the image is 4,565 fpm in autoclimb, beginning at sea level at 160 mph TAS.
I tested online and peaked at around 4400fpm with 25% and full ammo, using autoclimb, of course.
The rest I agree with almost entirely.
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I'm seriously disappointed HTC is going this arbitrary "pop the controls off at X speeds" nonsense. They're doing it more and more, and it's just not right. Lock it up. Make it uncontrollable so you die in an unrecoverable dive (there are many records of such things happening in WW2), but pop the ailerons off?
Utter nonsense.
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I'm more excited about the Dora's working radiator.
Last night a big furball broke out where a majority of the birds being flown were the cute little Yak3s. I upped a Dora and promptly landed 10 kills, I think 6 of which were Yak3s.
I then upped a Yak3 and got a kick out of it. Rolls good, not as good as a 190. This is at med to high speeds, low speeds it rolls about the same as Honey Boo Boos momma trying to roll her way out of a chair. Turns great, no WEP (Communist directorate decided the pilots had all the power they needed, any more power was a capitalist plot). Vision is excellent. Fire power is thin, like the non-K4 109s.
I managed two kills on the deck (both Yak3s) before a Yak3 killed me. All in all I can see it being a great base defense bird. With the very small fuel load and time on target we won't see too many of these over the enemy field, mostly base defense. This is a furballers dream.
Good add to the game.
boo
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I flew both new Yaks off line and I like the Yak-3 better of the two. I did not try it in the MA but did kill one in a p-51D in one pass so I did not get to see how it was in speed against the 51. I did see yak 3s over a V base shooting down our guys pretty well. New stuff is always good thanks HTC.
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The 3 will be a popular plane. Its good enough at everything to give a pilot some options as situations present themselves. Like all lighter ammo load rides it forces you to be choosy on shots but thats not such a bad thing. Great lower alt fighter and I expect there will be some very dangerous players in it once folks get some time in it. The other new Yak is a decent bird for what it is. It doesn't have many tools to bail you out of a bad situation, but I found it more capable than other 40 ENY rides.
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Over the nose shot is also pretty awesome with the Yak3. Clear visibility all around.
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I think the Yak3 is a nice addition to the plane set. Pretty quick in both turning and acceleration with a above average climb rate. I personally didn't fly any of the Yaks but was happy to see that the P47s of the 56th FG faired quite well against the new bandits.....as long as we kept up a good head of steam and didn't follow them into tight turns for too long. Almost all we encountered at 15K immediately dropped to the deck giving us the alt advantage from then on. We ended up with a 5 to 1 kill ratio against them.
Although they will be competitive in the MA, they're not the big hitters like the K4s, G14s, Doras or even the 51s I thought they possibly could be. So, all is well in the MA as the American P47s, P38s and P51s will continue to rule the skies until further notice.
Carry on dweebs ! :salute
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"Just for information", I saw 4,700 fpm using autoclimb. What you see in the image is 4,565 fpm in autoclimb, beginning at sea level at 160 mph TAS. I've been testing aircraft in Aces High for more than 10 years. I use Badboy's Bootstrap calculator, the best tool available for quantifying turn performance. I test to reveal maximum performance. The standard used is 25% fuel. Obviously, a full fuel load will reduce climb and acceleration. However, like 109s, the Yaks have a rather small (meaning light) fuel capacity. Thus, you will often be flying with little more than 50% fuel aboard. A light Yak-3 will climb with a 25% fuel 109G-14 below 3k, and turn circles around it. On the other hand, the 109G-2 can give the Yak-3 fits, especially below 200 mph. The 109F-4 will out-turn the Yak, but is at a disadvantage if the fight goes vertical below 5k. I envision that the Yak-3 will be an excellent match against the Ki-84 in duels.
Climb rate and acceleration fall off steadily above 5,000 feet. Again, at sea level, the Yak-3 is among the best in the game. At 10k, not so much. It is literally the inverse of the Spitfire 14, which gets better and better as the altitude goes up. At 10,000 feet I saw 381 mph, which is identical to the Typhoon. However, the Typhoon requires WEP, the Yak can make that speed until it runs out of gas.
The Yak-3 was designed to be a lightweight battlefield air superiority fighter. Down low, it is very capable. I do not think it is much of a furball fighter, due to the lack of hitting power. Snap shots are rarely fatal to opposing fighters.
Doing some offline tests, I found that it will shed its ailerons at about 525 mph in a dive. It begins groaning around 500 mph. Without ailerons, the Yak-3 will roll right, and it cannot be countered by rudder. To get the wings level, you must reduce power to near idle, and stand on full left rudder.
Turn rate: Astonishing instantaneous turn rate at corner speed. Sustained, its turn radius just about matches the Spit16 (no flaps). It can fly circles a tad smaller than the La-7, both without and with flaps. Flaps don't begin to drop until around 150 mph, reducing their usefulness. Again, not unlike the Spit16. The max gear speed is right at 200 mph. Outward visibility (especially forward) is the best of any fighter (except, perhaps, the I-16), with no reinforcing structure in the windscreen.
Apologies for a "I haven't downloaded and gotten to test it myself question", but have you observed any instability in the yaw during a fast roll?
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I noticed in the Yak3 that I could not see Icons through the armoured glass at the rear.
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Any eny changes to the 9U and 9T?
I dont think so. The 9U was still at 23, among the best values in the game. I think the 3 was at 18.
I believe if you keep this beast between 200 mph and 300 mph, with some air under you, its a very capable air craft. I have been testing its limits, most of all with so much action on the deck and slow, so Ive been getting thumped a bit in my Yak-3. I have found the Yak is very demanding of smooth gun sight work. Other fighters you can jerk a bit to get a snap shot on an enemy but with the Yak you have to be smooth with lining up your shot. I try and get into the mind set of aiming the plane and not the gun sight. Snap shots may be rough but deflection shots work just fine, just dont get herk jerky with your stick.
I expect the Yaks to get new life breathed into them with this update. Its nice to see the French get honored a bit with the addition of the Yak-3.
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I noticed that the prop seems to go the opposite way to the torque... :confused:
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More test results...
Speed at altitude:
SL: 351 mph
5k: 377 mph
10k: 382 mph
12k: 389 mph
13k: 399 mph
13.5k: 400 mph
14k: 399 mph
15k: 397 mph
Turn radius...
No flaps: 575 ft (comparison, Spit16: 567 ft)
Full flaps: 459 ft (comparison, Spit16: 450 ft)
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I noticed that the prop seems to go the opposite way to the torque... :confused:
I noticed that too....
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Good turn rate, decent roll, climbs well off the deck, wait where did all my gas go? UH-oh Short legs. Going to be a very popular bird in my opinion. Fun scrapping little plane!
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-One of the things I liked about the 9U is that it felt like a "survivor's plane" more than a killer to me. Good speed, good toughness, nice all around defensively. I'd use the 9U to scout hot situations when I knew my "killers" (D25, F6F) were going to be too slow and too outnumbered.
-The -3 is a significantly less stable gun platform and doesn't dive as well, but is better at generating and landing quality tracking shots. It may be slower, but the acceleration is excellent giving you a better chance of getting back up to corner speed between enemy passes.
-The small size combined with decent toughness and better turn make it a harder kill than either the -9 or Spit16 all thing being equal, but lacks the latter's total kill potential. It is a survivor's plane.
-It is nice to fly a plane that isn't a true speed demon on the deck but will definitely give you better odds of parity when overtaken than the -9U.
-A 1v5 on my second sortie that lasted for five minutes on my second -3 sortie ended badly for me but the -3 made a lasting impression. I couldn't have possibly lasted a entire minute in my jug against those aircraft/odds. (Maybe two minutes in the -9/F6F, maybe 3-4 in the S16 and perhaps even a touch better than the Ki84 overall despite inferior low-speed characteristics)
-The short legs will keep it primarily a point defense fighter though it may struggle vs. buffs more than other types.
-Even if used offensively, the combat endurance is poor and it is virtually useless in the A-G role.
-I'm guessing usage will settle somewhere between the Spit8 and La7. The La7 will still reign in the long term because it has most of what the -3 has going for it plus those 3 cannons and better top end scoot. A -3 driver with pinpoint accuracy can take down a few B-17s, but that same player can take out more with the La7.
-I have a hard time believing it will ever be hated/used as much as the La7 simply because people will understand the short clip factor.
-Given that the K4 is 15ENY with better climb/speed/armament, it appears the initial ENY is about right and an excellent value for anyone who can make the most of it.
Viva la France! :rock
Thank you Hitech! (And Greebo, beautiful job)
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Am I the only one that think this plane is insane?
It feels like it is full of helium and has no inertia. First fly I took off, held it at 90mph nose way up in the sky and it rocketed up at 3500-4000 fpm... at 90 mph! :rolleyes: The only thing that prevented me from going into a vertical climb was that the full-power torque could not be countered at a lower speed. You can take off with this thing and immediately do a loop. Takeoff run is as short as a zero.
If someone wants to BzN you with it he can do so forever never loosing his energy no matter what he does.
The Yak-3 completely blows the 9U out of the water. They are not even in the same league.
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I forsee a replacement for the "ez mode crutch plane" -- move over, spit16!
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-The short legs will keep it primarily a point defense fighter though it may struggle vs. buffs more than other types.
Like with 9U, the legs are not as short as it seems. These planes do not have to fly at full throttle 100% of the time. Reducing throttle or just RPM during flight from/to battle significantly increase their range and the cost of very little of the speed. Full MIL power here is the same as WEP on other planes, and most other planes will not last long if it were possible to keep them on WEP 100% of the time.
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Am I the only one that think this plane is insane?
It feels like it is full of helium and has no inertia. First fly I took off, held it at 90mph nose way up in the sky and it rocketed up at 3500-4000 fpm... at 90 mph! :rolleyes: The only thing that prevented me from going into a vertical climb was that the full-power torque could not be countered at a lower speed. You can take off with this thing and immediately do a loop. Takeoff run is as short as a zero.
If someone wants to BzN you with it he can do so forever never loosing his energy no matter what he does.
The Yak-3 completely blows the 9U out of the water. They are not even in the same league.
what makes you think that the yak-3 wasn't a fantastic aircraft Bozon?
Many planes in game perform feats of utter wonder and going on all the weights and flight modelling this plane was awesome by all accounts. Even the Germans were told to RTB upon sighting this beautiful little beast. For good reason.
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I am sure it was fantastic and I have no objective way to measure how it handled. All I know is how it handles in AH compared to other AC and generally how high power prop planes suppose to handle. The slow speed power performance seem a bit off the normal scale. The more I think about it, the more it feels like it has very little induced drag - but I did not test it! What I mean is that you do not feel the normal drop in excess power when riding the back of the power curve, and it looses very little speed when pulling G at idle power compared to other planes. Perhaps this is why it climbs at nearly 4000 fpm at 90 mph. PERHAPS, again I did no tests.
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I noticed that the prop seems to go the opposite way to the torque... :confused:
:huh
Have you heard of Newton's third law of motion? That's how it should be.
At least in the torque roll aerobatics maneuver the Yaks start rotating to the opposite direction of the prop as they should.
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Power to weight ratio seems to be accurate.
This plane just replaced the Spit 8 for me....
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:huh
Have you heard of Newton's third law of motion? That's how it should be.
At least in the torque roll aerobatics maneuver the Yaks start rotating to the opposite direction of the prop as they should.
I'm pointing out the obvious, get a sense of humour.
In the MA over range I have been complaining that the prop is on backwards, I bet you would take that literally to :/
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I'm pointing out the obvious, get a sense of humour.
In the MA over range I have been complaining that the prop is on backwards, I bet you would take that literally to :/
Yes, because text is so effective at conveying the subtle nuances of language :rolleyes:.
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Edit/ahh...nevermind/EDIT
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Dolby never knows what he's talking about.
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:huh
Have you heard of Newton's third law of motion? That's how it should be.
At least in the torque roll aerobatics maneuver the Yaks start rotating to the opposite direction of the prop as they should.
Here's where I have an issue.... The prop rotates clockwise when viewed from the cockpit. Normal torque applies a rotational moment counter clockwise. However, if you remove the ailerons, torque is applied in a clockwise direction. Why?
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Here's where I have an issue.... The prop rotates clockwise when viewed from the cockpit. Normal torque applies a rotational moment counter clockwise. However, if you remove the ailerons, torque is applied in a clockwise direction. Why?
Forgive the lack of terminology, but would it not be due to the corkscrew of air flowing over the wings coming off the propeller hitting the wings at different AoA's?
Wiley.
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In my several hours of flying the Yak-3 yesterday, my impression is as follows.
It makes almost every other aircraft in the set feel lacking below 12,000 feet. Seriously lacking, at that.
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Here's where I have an issue.... The prop rotates clockwise when viewed from the cockpit. Normal torque applies a rotational moment counter clockwise. However, if you remove the ailerons, torque is applied in a clockwise direction. Why?
Erm, the prop turns counter clockwise in the Yaks like it should unless my eyes are lying. And therefore a torque rolls happens to the clockwise direction, again as it should. In most of the prop jobs in AH it's the opposite of course.
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Durring the later part of the war, somewhere at some time, some luftwaffe person may have said something about avoiding yaks with an oil cooler here or there or this that or the other thing.
Who exactly said this is unknown to at least me.
What exactly he was in charge of, if anything at all is also unknown to at least me.
Whom he was talking to is also unknown to at least me.
Maybe the guy was a navigator on a 1929 transport plane talking to his dog spot while both were sloshed on bavarian wine??
I doubt he was a squad leader of g10s or k4s.
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good plane fly's easy..... turns good...... stalls good.......
guns suk arse......
my Ki eats them up. :aok
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good plane fly's easy..... turns good...... stalls good.......
guns suk arse......
my Ki eats them up. :aok
'84 and yak3 are similar.... they they shed parts @ 525 :rofl
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'84 and yak3 are similar.... they they shed parts @ 525 :rofl
true that....
but
if you are flying the KI anywhere near 500 you are doing it wrong :D
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I noticed this Yak-3 has the metal wings.
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Erm, the prop turns counter clockwise in the Yaks like it should unless my eyes are lying. And therefore a torque rolls happens to the clockwise direction, again as it should. In most of the prop jobs in AH it's the opposite of course.
Yes, it does.... My error. For come reason I had it in my head that the engine turned the other way....
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good plane fly's easy..... turns good...... stalls good.......
guns suk arse......
my Ki eats them up. :aok
Sure, you've been flying the Ki-84 for years. I would expect that. The Yak-3 is brand new. As people become familiar with the Yak-3, it's strengths and weaknesses, they will get better. Much better. The Yak's turn radius is actually smaller than that of the Ki-84. It accelerates quicker, climbs better at low altitude. It's also faster on the deck. All of these advantages are small, but they can accumulate. Once folks get the Yak down pat, it'll be more formidable. Right now, a lot of people are flying it... The Good, the Bad and the hopeless....
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. Right now, a lot of people are flying it... The Good, the Bad and the hopeless....
And yet it has already quite a formidable K/D
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Deck speeds for the four Yaks...
Yak-3: 352 mph
Yak-7B: 319 mph (no rockets)
Yak-9T: 329 mph (328 with 37mm)
Yak-9U: 357 mph
Comparisons....
P-51D: 355 MIL power, 368 WEP.
F4U-1D: 341 MIL power, 353 WEP.
Spit16: 317 MIL power, 344 WEP.
Ki-84: 326 MIL Power, 344 WEP.
Bf 109K4: 339 MIL power, 368 WEP.
P-38J: 334 MIL power, 345 WEP.
Typhoon: 356 MIL power, 372 WEP.
Fw 190D-9: 346 MIL power, 375 WEP.
La-7: 359 MIL power, 381 WEP.
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Sure, you've been flying the Ki-84 for years. I would expect that. The Yak-3 is brand new. As people become familiar with the Yak-3, it's strengths and weaknesses, they will get better. Much better. The Yak's turn radius is actually smaller than that of the Ki-84. It accelerates quicker, climbs better at low altitude. It's also faster on the deck. All of these advantages are small, but they can accumulate. Once folks get the Yak down pat, it'll be more formidable. Right now, a lot of people are flying it... The Good, the Bad and the hopeless....
Actually, no, I haven't flown it yet .
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Just updated the game. Looking forward to tonight and tomorrow :banana:
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And yet it has already quite a formidable K/D
There seems to be a correlation between usage and KTD on your charts. It might not necessarily indicate that the Yak-3 is as formidable as is stats.
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I beg your pardon? :headscratch:
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And yet it has already quite a formidable K/D
I think that the K/D is interesting. The aircraft killed most by the Yak-3, is the Yak-3.....
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Flew the Yak9U the other day to test it out as well. Seems like a fun plane as well. Sluggish compared to the Yak3 but it held its own against a La7 on the deck TnBing. I didn't snap roll either so I wonder if the FM was changed.
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Flew the Yak9U the other day to test it out as well. Seems like a fun plane as well. Sluggish compared to the Yak3 but it held its own against someone in a La7 on the deck TnBing. I didn't snap roll either so I wonder if the FM was changed.
fixed :aok
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Deck speeds for the four Yaks...
Yak-3: 352 mph
Yak-7B: 319 mph (no rockets)
Yak-9T: 329 mph (328 with 37mm)
Yak-9U: 357 mph
Comparisons....
P-51D: 355 MIL power, 368 WEP.
F4U-1D: 341 MIL power, 353 WEP.
Spit16: 317 MIL power, 344 WEP.
Ki-84: 326 MIL Power, 344 WEP.
Bf 109K4: 339 MIL power, 368 WEP.
P-38J: 334 MIL power, 345 WEP.
Typhoon: 356 MIL power, 372 WEP.
Fw 190D-9: 346 MIL power, 375 WEP.
La-7: 359 MIL power, 381 WEP.
In personal relevance to me,
Mosquito: 320 MIL power, 357 WEP.
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fixed :aok
:headscratch:
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:headscratch:
reread both grasshopper :D
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And yet it has already quite a formidable K/D
If we eliminate the 227 Yak-3 kills of Yak-3s, the K/D against the rest of the plane set is 1.48/1, which puts it in the top five of non-perked fighters.
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fixed :aok
ooohh :lol
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It's a sweet ride of that there is no doubt.
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I gave the Yak-7B a try in the Late War MA last night. I found the rockets to be only marginally effective, requiring a direct hit for a kill. Not easy to get direct hits... Still managed to get 3 kills and a couple of assists against a swarm of tanks. When the swarm continued, with fighters arriving to pick the "bomb tards", I grabbed an F6F instead. Kill a few tanks, then embarrass a few fighter jocks. Rearm and kill some more... That, along with several friendlies and dr7 sitting in the enemy spawn... They quit.
The Yak-7B has very limited capability. I believe that the Yak-9T is more effective against ground targets, and with the much lighter 20mm gun option, more capable than the -7B air to air. Indeed, the P-40N is a much better all around fighter-bomber than the Yak-7B. I'll fly it because I like the challenge, but if you really need to kill stuff, 95% of the plane set is more effective, including the Ki-43.
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I did not read all six pages, but is there a reason this bird is not perked?
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I did not read all six pages, but is there a reason this bird is not perked?
Sure, performance wise, it's the Soviet equivalent of the Ki-84. However, with less firepower, no bomb capability and no external fuel option, It is notably less useful. Moreover, above 5k, its performance starts to fall off to a status of middling to average. Nothing perk worthy here. It will absolutely not unbalance the arena.
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I did not read all six pages, but is there a reason this bird is not perked?
If you're talking about the Yak3 it's probably because it's got hardly any ammo. Oh, and because the tail is unstable at slow speeds, it warbles so shooting under 200 is difficult.
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Wonderful little planes. The 3 is going to be a mainstay in the MA for sure. There's just not a whole lot to not like about it. I suppose ammo load, but for me at least that's an incentive. Maybe it'll make me a better shot. :pray
I actually like the 7. Underpowered for sure, but in the fights I had it in it didn't really disappoint for a 40 ENY plane. It's a bit of a sleeper, imo.
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Strangely I have found Soviet rockets to be most useful against Soviet tanks. I'll often up an IL2 clean except for rockets and use the rockets to track T-34s, which for some odd reason they are very useful for tracking Red tanks. Once the tank is tracked its an easy kill with the heavy cannon.
I gave the Yak-7B a try in the Late War MA last night. I found the rockets to be only marginally effective, requiring a direct hit for a kill. Not easy to get direct hits... Still managed to get 3 kills and a couple of assists against a swarm of tanks. When the swarm continued, with fighters arriving to pick the "bomb tards", I grabbed an F6F instead. Kill a few tanks, then embarrass a few fighter jocks. Rearm and kill some more... That, along with several friendlies and dr7 sitting in the enemy spawn... They quit.
The Yak-7B has very limited capability. I believe that the Yak-9T is more effective against ground targets, and with the much lighter 20mm gun option, more capable than the -7B air to air. Indeed, the P-40N is a much better all around fighter-bomber than the Yak-7B. I'll fly it because I like the challenge, but if you really need to kill stuff, 95% of the plane set is more effective, including the Ki-43.
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Strangely I have found Soviet rockets to be most useful against Soviet tanks. I'll often up an IL2 clean except for rockets and use the rockets to track T-34s, which for some odd reason they are very useful for tracking Red tanks. Once the tank is tracked its an easy kill with the heavy cannon.
I've hammered T-34s with 37mm in the Yak... Never got a direct kill. Panzer IV, yes, killed them. The damn T-34 is tough customer. That's why I prefer bombs. That's also why I prefer to "bomb tard" with the F6F or Spit16/Spit8, because I can go from attack to air to air mode instantly and with great confidence that the enemy fighter will be dead forthwith, if they stay and fight.
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What do you think of the Ki-84 or N1K2-J for that role? Attack transitioning to air superiority fighter?
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What do you think of the Ki-84 or N1K2-J for that role? Attack transitioning to air superiority fighter?
I use both this way. I prefer the F6F because it can haul much more ordnance. I prefer the Spit16 because it will get to height faster than either of the Japanese fighters. Expectation of aircraft incoming determines what I fly. Nothing in the game can go from ground attack to air superiority faster than the Spit16, or Spit8.
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Has anyone tried pitting Yak-3 against the 109G-14... or at least encountered a G-14 (Yak 3's most likely equal opponent in the East front late in the war)?
(some stats, for reference)
(http://www.hitechcreations.com/components/com_ahplaneperf/genchart.php?p1=131&p2=84&pw=2>ype=0&gui=localhost&itemsel=GameData)
(http://www.hitechcreations.com/components/com_ahplaneperf/genchart.php?p1=131&p2=84&pw=2>ype=2&gui=localhost&itemsel=GameData)
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I beg your pardon? :headscratch:
Look at the graph for overall usage and KTD. You will notice that there is a correlation between the two statistics. Although which is the dependent variable, I cannot say.
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Look at the graph for overall usage and KTD. You will notice that there is a correlation between the two statistics. Although which is the dependent variable, I cannot say.
I still don't get your point, sorry.
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Turn rate: Astonishing instantaneous turn rate at corner speed. Sustained, its turn radius just about matches the Spit16 (no flaps). It can fly circles a tad smaller than the La-7, both without and with flaps. Flaps don't begin to drop until around 150 mph, reducing their usefulness. Again, not unlike the Spit16. The max gear speed is right at 200 mph. Outward visibility (especially forward) is the best of any fighter (except, perhaps, the I-16), with no reinforcing structure in the windscreen.
Thanks for the testing. Could you post a number for the Yak-3's turn radius without flaps? And if you have the number for Yak-9U similarly loaded it would be great. I could of course test them myself but I know you've done turn radius testing more than me so I'll probably get more consistent data from you. The reason I ask is the fact that at least with full tanks the wing loading figures are very very close and both use identical airfoils and the wing planform is practically the same as well. If there's a very big difference between the two aircraft it's pretty hard to explain where it comes from.
(Mosq's data with 25% fuel and no flaps says 574ft radius for the Spit16 and 643ft for the Yak-9U.)
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I still don't get your point, sorry.
The yak might not necessarily have been all that superior of a fighter, as it's KTD may have been boosted by the "new" rush. In fact I'm sure it has, considering there is a much greater chance of killing another yak-3, which would result in a net KTD of 1:1.
We will have to wait a few weeks to get an accurate idea of how it will fare in the MA. However I suspect it will be the Spit16 of scenarios: good on paper, at a disadvantage in practice.
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The yak might not necessarily have been all that superior of a fighter, as it's KTD may have been boosted by the "new" rush.
First, the chart wasn't exactly made to deliver a point on the A2A potential of a fighter. It was a momentary snapshot of what is really happening in the arena. If any, the point was to show that the Yak-3 ain't used that much, and to that success, as some are trying to convey.
Second, a rush in usage of a very new toy is often more likely to create a somewhat lower K/D, as many players are not used to the plane and/or operating outside their usual 'comfort zone'
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Thanks for the testing. Could you post a number for the Yak-3's turn radius without flaps? And if you have the number for Yak-9U similarly loaded it would be great. I could of course test them myself but I know you've done turn radius testing more than me so I'll probably get more consistent data from you. The reason I ask is the fact that at least with full tanks the wing loading figures are very very close and both use identical airfoils and the wing planform is practically the same as well. If there's a very big difference between the two aircraft it's pretty hard to explain where it comes from.
(Mosq's data with 25% fuel and no flaps says 574ft radius for the Spit16 and 643ft for the Yak-9U.)
I think that the nearly 1,000 lb weight difference between the Yak-3 and Yak-9U (at 25% fuel) accounts for this.
Turning right, the Yak-3 can manage a 575 ft turn radius on my best attempt. Going left is another thing. The best I got was 612 ft. Torque makes it much tougher to be precise, and fights against turning at knife edge. With some practice, I probably could get it lower. It reminds me of the 109s, in that you'll always get much better results going left rather than right (especially trying to roll right with flaps out). Since most fighters turn better with torque than against it, I suspect that most players don't realize that the Yak does better right than it does left.
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I think that the nearly 1,000 lb weight difference between the Yak-3 and Yak-9U (at 25% fuel) accounts for this.
Turning right, the Yak-3 can manage a 575 ft turn radius on my best attempt. Going left is another thing. The best I got was 612 ft. Torque makes it much tougher to be precise, and fights against turning at knife edge.
Thanks for the figures. There's a weight difference yes, but Yak-9U also has a bigger wing while having similar plan form/airfoil.
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What are the weights of the -3 and -9U when loaded with 25% fuel?
I show wing areas of 159.8sq.ft for the Yak-3 and 185.1sq.ft for the Yak-9U.
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What are the weights of the -3 and -9U when loaded with 25% fuel?
I show wing areas of 159.8sq.ft for the Yak-3 and 185.1sq.ft for the Yak-9U.
5488 vs 6426 lbs
34.3 vs 34.7 lbs/ft²
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Thanks for the figures. There's a weight difference yes, but Yak-9U also has a bigger wing while having similar plan form/airfoil.
The Yak-3 has a wing area of 160 sq/ft, and the -9U has a wing area of 185 sq/ft. At 25% fuel, the Yak-3 has an advantage of under 1 lb per sq/ft. Not huge. I wonder if Mosq's data reflects turning left, rather than right?
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I wonder if Mosq's data reflects turning left, rather than right?
Mosq's data is to the left, yes. So it's 612ft vs 643ft.
To illustrate the difference between 612ft and 643ft radius, in Mosq's turn radius list there's 15 AH aircraft that fit between those numbers.
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First, the chart wasn't exactly made to deliver a point on the A2A potential of a fighter. It was a momentary snapshot of what is really happening in the arena. If any, the point was to show that the Yak-3 ain't used that much, and to that success, as some are trying to convey.
Second, a rush in usage of a very new toy is often more likely to create a somewhat lower K/D, as many players are not used to the plane and/or operating outside their usual 'comfort zone'
I meant overall, as in the charts from your stats megathread. There looks to be a rough correlation between usage and KTD, although which is driving which is impossible to say.
All I'm saying is that what I've seen of the Yak-3 (admittedly relatively little) does not reflect its stats, or even its paper performance.
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I spent an hour testing the Yak-3 for minimum turn radius with full flaps (like a 190, you have to go nose high a bit to slow down enough to get the flaps out).
I'll break it down by direction of turning....
The Yak turns better right than left. This is due to the prop rotating in the opposite direction of most fighters.
At 500 ft ASL, the average of three runs, with full flaps, the minimum (repeatable) turn radius is....
Right: 473 feet
Left: 509 feet
Later, I'll repeat the test without flaps.
Okay, here's the data without flaps...
Right: 594 feet
Left: 613 feet
As before, this is the average of three tests.
For comparison, the Spit16 turning left does...
Clean: 567 feet (left)
Flaps: 450 feet (left)
La-7 data...
Clean: 617 feet (left)
Flaps: 453 feet (left)
F4U-1D data...
Clean: 702 feet (left)
Flaps: 427 feet (left)
Yak-9U data...
Clean: 641 feet (left)
Flaps: 520 feet (left)
Yak-3, once again...
Clean: 613 feet (left) 594 feet (right)
Flaps: 509 feet (left) 473 feet (right)
It is important to understand that I could tighten up the Yak's turn radius more, if I pushed deeper into a stall buffet. However, completing 5 revolutions without a wing dip or roll away is very tough to do. I have no doubt that only a handful of pilots could sustain that edge very long before they stalled and spun. Thus, I backed off a tiny bit, just flirting with the buffet (in and out of buffet). This, in my opinion, much better represents what an experienced pilot could manage. It is, however, still well beyond where the average pilot can expect to function without drama. Essentially, the limits I present are 99.8% of what the aircraft modeling will allow.
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I spent an hour testing the Yak-3
Thanks, WW.
- oldman
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I appreciate your time, as well, WW (always have).
And yet ... I'd be curious what the Spit16, La-7, F4U-1D and Yak-9U do in a right turn, comparatively, since the Yak-3 pilots (once they read this) are going to exploit right-turning instead of left (if they stick to turning, at all). That is the equalizer (perhaps complete advantage) the Yak-3 pilot will use. (I suppose I can put my own time into this, as well, though).
:salute :)