Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: 33Vortex on July 23, 2013, 05:53:48 PM

Title: Bailing bombers
Post by: 33Vortex on July 23, 2013, 05:53:48 PM
Bailing from a undamaged aircraft should carry a penalty, maybe half perk points or something.
Title: Re: Bailing bombers
Post by: Lusche on July 23, 2013, 06:16:50 PM
Bailing from a undamaged aircraft should carry a penalty, maybe half perk points or something.

There are already penalties.
If you bail your buffs instead of coming home you get only 80% perk points, and it massively hits your score (damage/sortie is modified accordingly and you get only 40% score points).

Bomb'n'bailers are ignoring all this, and would very likely even ignore much harder penalties, because they practice this method mainly for increased "war" efficiency. Meaning the ability to get back to the target as soon as possible. Oh, and the scond reason would be to 'deny' an intercepting player a kill - EGO stuff.



There had been plenty of discussions about this over the years, even HT himself was thinking about ways to make it stop. (Maybe I can dig that thread up later)
Unfortunately each idea of how to do so was quickly turning out to be either easy to be countered by a bomb'n'bailer, and/or mostly hurting the 'honest' player.
Title: Re: Bailing bombers
Post by: guncrasher on July 23, 2013, 07:06:16 PM
wait, so if I point my nose down straight into the ground I get more perks and points?  I wonder what my score would be if I didnt bail so many times because i upped out of the wrong base or got too lazy to rtb, or just because I dont feel like fighting several guys when I wasted most ammo, or just basically because I dont feel like it.  oh well, I guess we'll never know.

seriously guys, concentrate on your game and not the others, it's more fun.


semp
Title: Re: Bailing bombers
Post by: Karnak on July 23, 2013, 08:13:39 PM
wait, so if I point my nose down straight into the ground I get more perks and points? 
No.  If you land at a base you get 125% of the perks you earned, if you bail/crash/ditch you get 100% of them.  Lusche simply stated it the other way round, if you look at landed perks as the 100% number, then bailing/crashing/ditching earns you 80% of the perks.
Title: Re: Bailing bombers
Post by: 33Vortex on July 23, 2013, 09:40:58 PM
wait, so if I point my nose down straight into the ground I get more perks and points?  I wonder what my score would be if I didnt bail so many times because i upped out of the wrong base or got too lazy to rtb, or just because I dont feel like fighting several guys when I wasted most ammo, or just basically because I dont feel like it.  oh well, I guess we'll never know.

seriously guys, concentrate on your game and not the others, it's more fun.


semp

Just saying, that "my" game is not fun when I spend an hour chasing a HQ raider who decide to bail before I could get to him... makes sense?
Title: Re: Bailing bombers
Post by: guncrasher on July 23, 2013, 10:34:11 PM
Just saying, that "my" game is not fun when I spend an hour chasing a HQ raider who decide to bail before I could get to him... makes sense?

nope, why waste an hour chasing somebody?


semp
Title: Re: Bailing bombers
Post by: Dragon Tamer on July 23, 2013, 10:53:11 PM
Just saying, that "my" game is not fun when I spend an hour chasing a HQ raider who decide to bail before I could get to him... makes sense?

I feel ya bruh, I've climbed up to intercept strat raiders before and they bail out just when I get to their alt and before I enter icon range. Annoys the hell out of me...
Title: Re: Bailing bombers
Post by: RedBull1 on July 23, 2013, 10:56:32 PM
How about a simple solution, haven't put much thought into it so I am sure you guys can find the flaws in it, but what if we just increase the range in which buffs must be from enemy fighters to bail? For any aircraft now it's, what? 2.5K? How about... say... 4K? 5K?

Just off the top of my head
Title: Re: Bailing bombers
Post by: guncrasher on July 23, 2013, 11:42:28 PM
How about a simple solution, haven't put much thought into it so I am sure you guys can find the flaws in it, but what if we just increase the range in which buffs must be from enemy fighters to bail? For any aircraft now it's, what? 2.5K? How about... say... 4K? 5K?

Just off the top of my head

and how about just pointing the nose down to crash?  a bail/crash/kill all count as the same.  what I am trying to say is that you cannot moderate behavior.  if somebody doesnt want to fight you then then wont, it's just that simple, and you must either accept it or get frustrated.  the choice is yours.

one thing about fighters and bombers is that the fighter has the advantage of when and how to attack while the bomber has no control over it.  and should the fighter get hit, he as the choice to retreat and land or ditch thus denying the bomber of a kill.  a good fighter wont attack a bomber unless he's sure the odds of causing damage and get away with it are in his favor.  the only control a bomber has is to either try to hit the fighter or bail.  just like you make a choice of when or if you want  to attack then you must accept the fact that the bomber may not want to fight you.  again it is just that simple.


semp
Title: Re: Bailing bombers
Post by: icepac on July 24, 2013, 10:04:59 AM
nope, why waste an hour chasing somebody?


semp


Why grind out a bunch of 5 minute La7 missions never climbing above 2,000 feet or traveling more than a sector?

Because some of us need variety and aren't interested in flying the same exact mission profile over and over.
Title: Re: Bailing bombers
Post by: surfinn on July 24, 2013, 10:45:48 AM
This is a frustrating issue when you've take the time to get to 29 k only to have the guy bail as soon as his bombs hit. If they didn't get any perks or points at all for that sortie do you think that might be a deterrent to that style of game play?
Only on undamaged buffs though. I can understand having a pilot wound and not being able to get back to your territory after you've shot the fighter down that gave it to you.
Title: Re: Bailing bombers
Post by: Lusche on July 24, 2013, 10:53:10 AM
This is a frustrating issue when you've take the time to get to 29 k only to have the guy bail as soon as his bombs hit. If they didn't get any perks or points at all for that sortie do you think that might be a deterrent to that style of game play?
Only on undamaged buffs though.



It won't be any deterrent. And can be circumvented easily: Nose down and rip yer wings
Title: Re: Bailing bombers
Post by: surfinn on July 24, 2013, 11:04:27 AM
Ah good point guess it will just continue then. Fortunately I run into more players willing to fight their bombers than bail them any way. I only see the bomb and bail thing every once in a while.
Title: Re: Bailing bombers
Post by: Zoney on July 24, 2013, 11:14:35 AM
Twice now this month, I have chased down sets of Mossie16's only to have them bail just as I closed.  He made sure each time I was far enough away that the proxie was not awarded.  I film every sortie so when I landed I checked who it was.  Same guy both times.  Both times he was inbound his target, so the reason of "expediting to the next sortie" is invalid.  I think any reasonable person would agree that this behavior is unacceptable.  This forum, for those who read it, at least points out these types of behaviors in the hope that a reasonable person would come to understand and take corrective action.

In my case, I have never even Pm'd the Mossie16 pilot about my disappointment.  That's all it is, disappointment.
Title: Re: Bailing bombers
Post by: Wiley on July 24, 2013, 11:47:20 AM
It's a behavior that I'd love to see squashed completely.  Unfortunately there's just no way of doing it I can see that isn't gamey as all creation, carries a penalty most will care for, or would not easily be circumvented.

For my gameplay style I tend to get frustrated more by the suicide jabos, usually a radar hero that goes in, hits the dar, then dies in the ack after one turn.  I generally don't even bother going after radar heroes anymore unless I really think I have a good chance of getting them before the field.

I haven't seen too many high alt bomb and bails because I don't always play up there, but I really feel it's one of the cheesiest things you can do.

Wiley.
Title: Re: Bailing bombers
Post by: Tank-Ace on July 24, 2013, 12:02:16 PM
Yeah, I don't quite get the radar heroes. They pork radar, and usually nothing happens until it pops,
and he comes to pork it again.
Title: Re: Bailing bombers
Post by: dirtdart on July 24, 2013, 01:32:26 PM
How about: Bail Bombers, Zero enemy based damage = no ords for your handle for one hour?
Title: Re: Bailing bombers
Post by: Lusche on July 24, 2013, 01:40:29 PM
How about: Bail Bombers, Zero enemy based damage = no ords for your handle for one hour?

Solution: Ride it down. Still way faster then flying all the way back to base. Most of the time you don't even have to ride down the whole way, as the disintegrating fuselage will send you to tower.
Title: Re: Bailing bombers
Post by: dirtdart on July 24, 2013, 01:42:05 PM
Zero based enemy damage ^^^^

Title: Re: Bailing bombers
Post by: Lusche on July 24, 2013, 01:48:05 PM
Zero based enemy damage ^^^^




Oh, I thougth bailing from zero enemy based damage...


Well, in this case you will also deny ords to all those that lose their bombers due to a piloting error...
Title: Re: Bailing bombers
Post by: dirtdart on July 24, 2013, 01:55:11 PM
True, but when thinking through possible solutions, that was about the only one that came to mind. There is certainly no easy answer.  :salute
Title: Re: Bailing bombers
Post by: Vinkman on July 24, 2013, 02:22:31 PM
I don't think score changes will stop them.

How about...

Increase the distance for a proxy to Icon range (6K) for an undamaged Aircraft (or just limit that rule to buffs, or even Buffs above a certain Alt)

 :salute
Title: Re: Bailing bombers
Post by: Mister Fork on July 24, 2013, 02:39:56 PM
Bailing from a undamaged aircraft should carry a penalty, maybe half perk points or something.
Apart from forcing players from gaming the game, what if a player wants to join a mission? Or leave to join the SEA? Or have to be AFK for a dozen different reasons and we're punishing them for...wanting to pee?

Seriously... let the game be played in how it's designed.  And no one said that war was played fair either.... ;)
Title: Re: Bailing bombers
Post by: surfinn on July 24, 2013, 04:32:51 PM
I don't think score changes will stop them.

How about...

Increase the distance for a proxy to Icon range (6K) for an undamaged Aircraft (or just limit that rule to buffs, or even Buffs above a certain Alt)

 :salute

I like that vinkman if you can see it its a kill. great idea :salute  best idea yet on how to stop that
Title: Re: Bailing bombers
Post by: guncrasher on July 24, 2013, 05:34:37 PM
True, but when thinking through possible solutions, that was about the only one that came to mind. There is certainly no easy answer.  :salute

the problem is you guys are trying to come up to with a solution to something that isnt really a problem.  unless you expect me to believe that 90% of all the bombers bail out. 

I once went up to about 28k and was able to catch some lancs and nailed 2 of them from a little more than 1k out with a 110. he never touched me and he bailed the last bomber and raged pm'd me.  I understood his frustration as he never had a chance to defend himself. he took 2 or 3 times longer than I did to get to that altitude and it was for nothing.

whenever somebody complains about bombers bailing, I think about that guy, I bet he wished he had bailed out to deny  me the kills.  he was willing to fight and got none.  just like you guys have broken contact with a bomber basically because he had kicked your buttt and now want to land somewhere to deny him a kill.  I have had my share of more than a few fighters that I damaged pretty bad and they were able to land or ditch and I got nothing.

now to be fair to the bomber guys then ask for a rule something along the lines that if you get within 6k of one and he bails than you get a kill.  on the other hand if you get within 6k and break contact to more than 6k for whatever reason, for more than a couple of minutes then he gets a kill and you die.  make it a rule so it's only above 20k.  hey you climbed to fight, didnt ya.  then you fight until one is dead.   :bolt:.


semp


semp
Title: Re: Bailing bombers
Post by: whiteman on July 24, 2013, 05:41:54 PM
i've seen one set bail in the last 3 years, ducati3 bailed all 3 of his lancs a couple mins in to his sortie I assume to hit our CV.   Its what ever, made my job easier.
Title: Re: Bailing bombers
Post by: surfinn on July 24, 2013, 07:13:55 PM
I see it twice a month so not a big deal to me but man id like it to stop it is frustrating.
Title: Re: Bailing bombers
Post by: guncrasher on July 24, 2013, 07:15:51 PM
I see it twice a month so not a big deal to me but man id like it to stop it is frustrating.

surfinn dont you rage about everything else on 200 except bailing bombers?  :devil



semp
Title: Re: Bailing bombers
Post by: surfinn on July 24, 2013, 07:20:34 PM
semp
your part of a great squad with great people around you. You should try your best to emulate their behaviour  :salute
I know thats a long shot and not likely to happen but from my point of view it had to be said.
Title: Re: Bailing bombers
Post by: icepac on July 24, 2013, 08:05:54 PM
I see it about twice a week.
Title: Re: Bailing bombers
Post by: guncrasher on July 24, 2013, 08:24:53 PM
semp
your part of a great squad with great people around you. You should try your best to emulate their behaviour  :salute
I know thats a long shot and not likely to happen but from my point of view it had to be said.

ditto boss.


semp