Aces High Bulletin Board
Special Events Forums => Scenario General => Topic started by: ROC on July 28, 2013, 07:44:17 PM
-
(http://i448.photobucket.com/albums/qq209/Soulyss/AnnouncePosterFinal_zpse2338c3a.png)
Welcome to the Fall 2013 Scenario, Battle Of Britain. New terrain, HE111's, New Ground Guns, and a great leadership team.
Click Here To Register http://www.ahevents.org/events/scenarios/current-or-next-scenario.html (http://www.ahevents.org/events/scenarios/current-or-next-scenario.html)
Welcome Stellar as the RAF CO
Welcome Redtail7 as the Axis CO
Registration Is Now Open!
-
Yes!
I'm so going to fly this. :x
Map looks awesome!
Can't decide which side though :headscratch:
-
In with a 109 Emil! :aok
-
I can't seem to find the Zekes in the write up.... :headscratch:
-
I can't seem to find the Zekes in the write up.... :headscratch:
They are hiding in the Hurricanes :aok
-
I can't seem to find the Zekes in the write up.... headscratch
Darn it, I knew I forgot something! I should have enabled one zeke just for you lol
-
Just registered!!!! Would like to have access to the RAF forum so I can see where I'm supposed to report :x :salute
-
I'm wondering why so many Ju88s compared to the He111s, and why overall so few bombers? Seems a little light for such an important bomber campaign. Also, only 8 Me110s... I don't mean to question the balance, it just seems to be reduced to mostly 109Es this go-round. Less variety/choice.
-
Gotta go Emils this trip :aok
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/Battle%20of%20Britain/109E3BlatenoseYellowjg51_zps6dc0a703.jpg)
-
Gotta go Emils this trip :aok
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/Battle%20of%20Britain/109E3BlatenoseYellowjg51_zps6dc0a703.jpg)
Guppy once I find out my posting would you do the honor of making my spitfire come to life sir? I would be much obliged :x
-
I'm wondering why so many Ju88s compared to the He111s, and why overall so few bombers?
HE111s have a greater payload than the 88s. Also, the original format being preserved had the 88s subbing for "some" He111s. More 111s, less bombers in the air. The 3 prior runs of this event had the first 2 runs nearly dead even, with wins for the Allied the first time by a single building, and the Axis the second time by a few buildings, then a rather large victory by the Axis the third time. Sticking with formulas that have proven to work. There is more than enough ordinance to take the buildings down to complete the objectives.
-
Guppy once I find out my posting would you do the honor of making my spitfire come to life sir? I would be much obliged :x
I'll see what I can do. Hopefully I'll have a lot of Emils to do :aok
-
I'll see what I can do. Hopefully I'll have a lot of Emils to do :aok
allied
Look forward to it, hopefully we'll meet each other over the English skies :salute
-
Don't forget to crop the spinner at that first panel line for a BOB-era E-4. They didn't get spinner caps until the E-7 much later. :aok
-
HE111s have a greater payload than the 88s. Also, the original format being preserved had the 88s subbing for "some" He111s. More 111s, less bombers in the air. The 3 prior runs of this event had the first 2 runs nearly dead even, with wins for the Allied the first time by a single building, and the Axis the second time by a few buildings, then a rather large victory by the Axis the third time. Sticking with formulas that have proven to work. There is more than enough ordinance to take the buildings down to complete the objectives.
The typical bombload for a He111 was no more than 2000 kg during BOB. In AH we get:
32x 50kg
8x 250kg
2x500kg + 853L
1x 1000kg + 835L
2x 1000kg
1x 1800kg
That's all under 2000kg. The Ju88 on the other hand can carry:
10 or 20x 50kg
2 or 4 250kg
2 or 4 500kg
for a total combination of 3000kg of both internal and external.
Note, however, that the 500kg externals were pretty rare on the Ju88. Most BOB-era Ju88s could ONLY carry 2 external bombs (most often 250kg, but they were pushing weights to use 500kg as well), due to limits on the airframes, limits on the structure, limits even on the landing gear to hold the weight, the engines to take off with that weight.
If you want to limit the amount of ord, LESS Ju-88s is what you want. Also, I would suggest using the CM commands to prohibit the 4x500kg and the 4x250kg external options. Those are very much post-BOB loadouts on our post-BOB A-4 subvariant. They were used against Soviet Russia and used extensively... Just not in the BOB. Many BOB-era Ju88s had to load only half the internal 50kg bombs as well, so that they could load an extra fuel cell into the other bomb bay. That also would restrict the possible loadouts if you wanted to prohibit it with the CM codes as well.
Not to mention the fact that it's a good 20+ mph faster than the BOB-era bombers, carries 50% more ord, and has 50% more defensive firepower than the BOB-era Ju88A-1s that were available. I'd say that putting more He111s is far better to the scenario balance than putting in more Ju88s.
-
Don't forget to crop the spinner at that first panel line for a BOB-era E-4. They didn't get spinner caps until the E-7 much later. :aok
Ahh but not true oh Krusty one :)
They started to show up at the tail end of the B of B and can be found on E3s and E4s. Lots of photo evidence of them. Not to worry though as I've got 4 templates to play with for folks who want their 109E. I'm sure the rivet counters can point out all kinds of things not right with them, but I'm having fun with it and they look the part. I'm partial to the look of the capped spinner and the early canopy so it had to be :)
E-3 with the early spinner and no yellow nose
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/Battle%20of%20Britain/109E3noYellow_zps877bdf57.jpg)
Later yellow nosed E-3 with the capped spinner
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/Battle%20of%20Britain/109E3Yellownose_zps00321029.jpg)
E-4 with no yellow and the early spinner
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/Battle%20of%20Britain/109E4NoYellow_zps210b1a30.jpg)
And a late E-4 with the yellow nose and spinner cap
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/Battle%20of%20Britain/109E4Yellownose_zps821ccab4.jpg)
-
In for this one :banana:
-
Dan, I went ahead and signed up for the 109's. I didn't realize it's just one big group on the registration page. Hopefully a few more of VF-17 will join us.
I'm partial to a yellow nose. I kind of like the 2/JG3 by Krusty. :rock
-
Ahh but not true oh Krusty one :)
They started to show up at the tail end of the B of B and can be found on E3s and E4s. Lots of photo evidence of them. Not to worry though as I've got 4 templates to play with for folks who want their 109E. I'm sure the rivet counters can point out all kinds of things not right with them, but I'm having fun with it and they look the part. I'm partial to the look of the capped spinner and the early canopy so it had to be :)
D'oh... and part of me knew that, too. I just plum fergot! As soon as I read this I knew exactly what you were talking about before I even scrolled to the pictures.
EDIT:
I'm partial to a yellow nose. I kind of like the 2/JG3 by Krusty. :rock
Ironically, that was an E-4 that had a pointed cap!
(http://i814.photobucket.com/albums/zz63/krustacious/random/109E-4_JG3.jpg)
-
I'd say that putting more He111s is far better to the scenario balance than putting in more Ju88s.
Thank you, I'm glad you agree. There actually are reasons why we have Half HE111's and HALF JU88s instead of ALL JU88s as in all three prior versions of this event.
As for the rest of your facts, thank you, but you spent a great deal of time on the differences between the planes but didn't mention one thing about the total tonnage we allocated. Which, again, is enough to achieve the objectives, which is the first thing we consider.
-
The other scenarios had no choice BUT to use Ju88s. We have a much more representative option now. Question is with this much better match to the BOB era, why is so much emphasis still placed on the Ju88s which have almost no place in a BOB setting?
Unless I'm mistaken, there were equal numbers of Ju88s and He111s, 2 squadrons of 12, each divided into 2 groups of 6, with drones enabled.
I would go back and verify this but apparently the rules writeup is now marked as a "private section of the webpage" and I cannot view it, even though I'm logged in.
EDIT: I don't mean to imply I'm picking a fight. It's a subject I am passionate about, as you may recall. There are many problems to using the Ju88A-4s in our BOB scenarios. I remember them all too well.
-
Another Bob.
Dan if you have room for an old gun hand I am in.
<S>
Joker
-
Another Bob.
Dan if you have room for an old gun hand I am in.
<S>
Joker
Check your PMs. Already asked you earlier tonight so yes you have a spot:)
-
Link fixed. Not sure how it got switched, but it's back :)
-
There are many problems to using the Ju88A-4s in our BOB scenarios. I remember them all too well.
I know, the problems were so insurmountable that even with all those JU88s the Axis won two out of three times, and the one time the Allies won it was by a single building.
Now, there are half JU88s and Half HE111s. Not sure I see a problem here. Pretty much going with it as it is.
-
Don't need to tell me. I was axis CO and even won using those '88s. I've also flown against them. I've participated in at least 3 BOB scenarios and countless FSO BOB setups. There's almost no hope of intercepting after first merge with hurricane mk.1s. They are literally more than 20mph faster than the He111s at FTH.
I would hope after this ... test... that the Aces High Ju88A-4 never sees another BOB scenario again. If we get the A-1, then that should replace it in the BOB role.
-
Small notes:
1. It may be good idea to let Fi-156 to be used by Axis for S&R instead of Dakota?
2. I'm second about that He-110 should be dominant bomber instead of Ju-88
3. I think it would be ok to perform rescue over enemy territory as long as you allowed to shoot the rescuers over the enemy territory but not over friendly territory. This would make Axis life much harder.
-
Good to see Ill have plenty of targets for my Hurricane. Requesting a GL Position if open.
-
What is the allied CO bbs ID? :bhead
-
(http://i.imgur.com/VuUBkkV.jpg)
:noid
(http://i.imgur.com/suemyzs.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/fiT2kI4.jpg)
:banana:
I hear 109's make cute explosions.
-
I hear 109's make cute explosions.
That's the sound the cannon rounds make hitting your Hurricanes. :neener:
-
Thanks Dan, looking forward to it.
Joker
-
Think I am going to switch to Axis :uhoh .
I forget I am in a JG squad :P
-
One more thing...
Can the bomber gun site to be not auto-calibrated like on MA?
The MA style bombing is almost "laser guided high precision weapon"
Manual calibration suits SEA much better (IMHO)
-
It's going to be auto cal, but the salvo must be 20 on the 88s and HE111s so it's not like everyone will fly around picking off a dozen targets a few bombs at a time.
-
Here is an extra large map of the BoB40 terrain for you mission planners. It's roughly 3,800 x3,800 so you can make a nice wall map if you want :)
http://pccamembers.com/images/BoB40.jpg (http://pccamembers.com/images/BoB40.jpg)
-
Ahhh BoB, have been waiting for this one. Flew Allied last 2 times around so I suppose it's time to show the German iron some love. :lol Will be buzzing around in an Emil if Guppy will have me again. :D
-
Ahhh BoB, have been waiting for this one. Flew Allied last 2 times around so I suppose it's time to show the German iron some love. :lol Will be buzzing around in an Emil if Guppy will have me again. :D
Consider yourself an Emil pilot. Glad to have ya. Looks like a bunch of the old crew are going back into action :)
-
Just registered!!!! Would like to have access to the RAF forum so I can see where I'm supposed to report :x :salute
Just park that SPitfire in the Channel... That is where I am sending it anyway! :P :salute
See you up :airplane:
-
Just park that SPitfire in the Channel... That is where I am sending it anyway! :P :salute
See you up :airplane:
Well actually sir it depends on how I fly and you fly, I see it as your 109 spirals down over the English countryside and you get captured :neener:
-
Well actually sir it depends on how I fly and you fly, I see it as your 109 spirals down over the English countryside and you get captured :neener:
I guess I should STAY over the channel then...... :joystick: :bolt:
-
(http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/attachments/aircraft-pictures/223844d1360164007t-gallands-bf-109s-5-luftwaffe-ace-iii.jg26-maj-adolf-galland-briefing-caffiers-01.jpg)
Battle of Britain 2013 Axis Kommandatur
Meine Herren,
Guten tag, Luftlotte 2 is preparing for the aerial invasion of Southeast England. We need every Luftwaffe pilot standing by and ready to go.
There are still many seats open in the registration table. Many of the seats are very hot.
We can use the following:
- Stuka piloten - Just a few seats left. Two frames Stuka and two frames BF109. Sign up!
- JU88A-4 piloten - These seats are going quick. So, hop auf sie.
- Bf110C-4b - These seats are almost gone. Hurry to get one while they're still open.
The Axis Forum will be opening soon. Please PM myself or your Executive Officer 68Raptor for access to the forum.
We will see you in the forums. PM me with any question you may have.
(http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/attachments/off-topic-misc/73634d1224209498-favourite-roundel-eisen.jpg) (http://www.ahevents.org/scenario-registration.html)
Click on the Knight's Cross of the Iron Cross above and you will be taken to the event registration page.
Hail Deutschland and Viel Glück
Redtail7
-
I guess I should STAY over the channel then...... :joystick: :bolt:
It's a good idea! Once less fighter to cover the bombers :D
-
Executive Officer 68Raptor
Nice Catch! Excellent choice.
-
Ummm...Should I start knocking my rust off?
-
Ummm...Should I start knocking my rust off?
Yes, you should :)
-
Guppy, you have my PM's blocked so I am forced to respond here.
My response:
1. Are you Axis CiC?
2. That was the plan way before you even thought of PMing me.
-
Ju 88's are still in the event? Have I missed some great big argument recently?
-
Guppy, you have my PM's blocked so I am forced to respond here.
My response:
1. Are you Axis CiC?
2. That was the plan way before you even thought of PMing me.
What is CiC :headscratch:
-
What is CiC :headscratch:
Commander in Chief
-
Commander in Chief
I figured, lol. I learned that in HS ROTC, glad my Gny. Sgt. didn't see that question.
The Axis CiC is Redtail7
-
Ju 88's are still in the event? Have I missed some great big argument recently?
Still? There was no argument, they are in the event.
-
I figured, lol. I learned that in HS ROTC, glad my Gny. Sgt. didn't see that question.
The Axis CiC is Redtail7
Your Gny Sgt would've loved to see that :D
-
Still? There was no argument, they are in the event.
Why? We have He 111's.
-
Short answer, we wanted them in.
-
Why? We have He 111's.
For what it's worth, a quick look at the order of battle for the LW in August 1940 has 5 Ju88 KGs and 5 He111s KGs They were both doing the job.
-
Why? We have He 111's.
We have 12x3 He 111's and 12x3 Ju 88's.
-
We have 12x3 He 111's and 12x3 Ju 88's.
Brooke, I believe Guppy was talking about the real conditions of BoB, having 5 complete groups for both planes. Kinda half and half, like we have now.
-
Brooke, I believe Guppy was talking about the real conditions of BoB, having 5 complete groups for both planes. Kinda half and half, like we have now.
Yep. I was just replying to Pervert's question about having He 111's (that we do in the 50/50 mix). I should have quoted which I was replying to (now fixed).
-
:rofl
Gawd I love a text based environment lmao
-
(http://schicklgruberfest.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/la511.jpg)
Meine Herren,
Guten abend, A little deflation is in order here. Everyone that is not a first or second year scenario participant
knows that by the time you see the write-up the scenario is locked.
No need to ask why and no need to answer questions that are irrelevant at this point.
Especially you Axis fellows. Your time could be better spent trying to figure out how we're going to re-float
England after we sink it. :rofl
Jetzt, wieder an die Arbeit! :D
(Now, get back to work!)
:salute
-
For what it's worth, a quick look at the order of battle for the LW in August 1940 has 5 Ju88 KGs and 5 He111s KGs They were both doing the job.
Also for what it's worth, they were early model Junkers, definitely not as capable as ours is.
-
Also for what it's worth, they were early model Junkers, definitely not as capable as ours is.
Gonna have to roll with it for immersion's sake Krusty. It's the only Ju-88 in town. Heaven forbid if a bomber guy had a chance too :)
Just relax and fly the thing. No one is really gonna die. Have some fun with your buddies. Let yourself get caught up in the action and who knows, it might even be fun :aok
-
Gonna have to roll with it for immersion's sake Krusty. It's the only Ju-88 in town. Heaven forbid if a bomber guy had a chance too :)
Just relax and fly the thing. No one is really gonna die. Have some fun with your buddies. Let yourself get caught up in the action and who knows, it might even be fun :aok
Dan it would appear that you just want people to have fun. Or am I reading that wrong? :headscratch:
:salute
-
Dan it would appear that you just want people to have fun. Or am I reading that wrong? :headscratch:
:salute
Seems like that would make sense :)
Switched to JG54 though SIK. This is an E7 with a DT from Barbarossa time, which we won't have in B of B, but you get the idea :)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/109E7JG54Redone-1.jpg)
-
Gonna have to roll with it for immersion's sake Krusty. It's the only Ju-88 in town. Heaven forbid if a bomber guy had a chance too :)
Just relax and fly the thing.
That's what I plan.. to relax and completely ignore Ju88s (as I have had quite enough of trying to catch them, let alone shoot them down, with a Spit I). So, as far as I am concerned, Ju88s you can destroy anything you want.
-
That's what I plan.. to relax and completely ignore Ju88s (as I have had quite enough of trying to catch them, let alone shoot them down, with a Spit I). So, as far as I am concerned, Ju88s you can destroy anything you want.
My understanding from those who have flown this event in the past, each has been very competitive. No one has said that the 88s ruined the scenario. That being said, it's less 88s this time so I can't quite see how it's an issue.
The RAF rose to the occasion back then. They didn't concede before a shot was fired.
Remember the guys you are representing and what they accomplished. Sadly there are very few of "the Few" left.
While I'm flying a 109E in this one, understand the guys below are my heroes and have been my heroes for far longer than any computer game. Enjoy the chance to put yourself in their spot, as much as a computer game will allow.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/Coltishall.jpg)
-
SO is this a two life event or is it 1 life then maybe a second with a rescue?
What happens if your pilot is killed? Game over?
-
(http://schicklgruberfest.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/la511.jpg)
Meine Herren,
Guten abend, A little deflation is in order here. Everyone that is not a first or second year scenario participant
knows that by the time you see the write-up the scenario is locked.
No need to ask why and no need to answer questions that are irrelevant at this point.
Yes sir.
-
Hey ROC, any limits on weather or not the He111 can carry the 20mms in the nose?
-
Dan it would appear that you just want people to have fun. Or am I reading that wrong? :headscratch:
:salute
Yeah, Dan is always such a pushy guy :lol
-
Hey ROC, any limits on weather or not the He111 can carry the 20mms in the nose?
No restrictions, the available gun packages were available in 1940 unless we seriously missed something. Hey, it can happen :)
-
Guppy, we've been saying our Ju88 ruins the BOB scenario since we started running BOB scenarios.... :rofl
-
Guppy, we've been saying our Ju88 ruins the BOB scenario since we started running BOB scenarios.... :rofl
Who is we? As some folks who I'd consider to be fairly objective, claim that the B of B is one of the most popular scenarios and that it's been close every time.
And since its the only 88 we have, it would seem silly to leave it out based on whoever "we" is beyond yourself. So are you going to spend your time griping about the 88 we don't have or are you going to participate and help make the event enjoyable?
If it's that big of a deal, then don't fly it.
-
Who is we? As some folks who I'd consider to be fairly objective, claim that the B of B is one of the most popular scenarios and that it's been close every time.
And since its the only 88 we have, it would seem silly to leave it out based on whoever "we" is beyond yourself. So are you going to spend your time griping about the 88 we don't have or are you going to participate and help make the event enjoyable?
If it's that big of a deal, then don't fly it.
So abrasive Sir CM. I flew in 08 and the one before. Ju 88s hurt, not ruined, the event.
Sukov brings a good question to mind. May we have an answer?
-
BoB is better with He 111's in it. In my opinion, having some Ju 88's, too, though is also good.
There were Ju 88's in the battle. Yes, they might have been lesser versions than the A-4 (although some A-4's supposedly flew near the end of the battle, and I've read that the A-1 was faster than the A-4, although not well referenced). We would use the correct versions (A-1 and A-5) if we had them, but we have the A-4, so it is what we use.
LW:RAF, bombers:RAF, Ju88's:RAF, and He111:RAF are all lower than historical. (We have to design for playability and expected turnout.) If so, think of higher Ju88:He111 than historical as a slight balance. Please don't focus on Ju88:He111 only while ignoring LW:RAF, bombers:RAF, Ju88s:RAF, and He111:RAF.
Past BoB's had only Ju 88's, yet were highly rated by players and balanced (with two out of three of them being nearly draws). We have less than half as many Ju 88's as in the past runnings.
-
So abrasive Sir CM. I flew in 08 and the one before. Ju 88s hurt, not ruined, the event.
Sukov brings a good question to mind. May we have an answer?
Certainly. You'll find it under the rules section.
http://www.ahevents.org/events/scenarios/previous-scenarios/49-european-theatre/991-battle-of-britain-2013.html
-
I have had quite enough of trying to catch them, let alone shoot them down, with a Spit I
I flew Hurri I's in frame 4 of BoB2004 and killed two Ju 88's and put rounds into at least a couple others in four engagements. They are fast, but not uncatchable. A little alt on them, and you can catch them. Also, regardless of whether they are difficult to catch or not, they were in the real battle.
My four bomber engagements:
(http://electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/scenarios/battle_britain_2006/pics/frame4/011_hits.jpg)
(http://electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/scenarios/battle_britain_2006/pics/frame4/017_frontal.jpg)
(http://electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/scenarios/battle_britain_2006/pics/frame4/027_breakoff.jpg)
(http://electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/scenarios/battle_britain_2006/pics/frame4/0027b_another.jpg)
-
SO is this a two life event or is it 1 life then maybe a second with a rescue?
What happens if your pilot is killed? Game over?
For LW, it is 2 life (one in primary, one in secondary). Secondary for fighter pilots is a Stuka. Secondary for bomber pilots is their bombers again.
For RAF:
•10) Downed (lost) RAF pilots will able to take up ground gunner and observation positions.
•11) Rescued RAF pilots can re up after T = 60 minutes (see rescue below).
So, they potentially have 1, 2, or more lives depending on whether or not they are rescued (could get rescued more than once).
-
LOL, chill Guppy, chill!
Did you not see the laughing emoticon? :rofl <-- this = "I make teh joke" -- and if you want to get into the debate about the Ju88s in BOB we can start another thread. You paint them in too kind a light.
There is a history of dismissing any comments that don't fit the existing template, because it's not going to be changed after the rules have been finalized, rigth? And CMs are unwilling to discuss the scenario after the fact, and never tell you ahead of time what the next scenario is before all is set in stone.... so there is no "right" time to discuss any issues with balance, historic accuracy, and so forth about scenarios. There is no discourse, no outlet for rational discussion. I have brought this up before on a number of scenario forums and it's rather frustrating.
-
Certainly. You'll find it under the rules section.
http://www.ahevents.org/events/scenarios/previous-scenarios/49-european-theatre/991-battle-of-britain-2013.html
Thanks. :rolleyes:
This is not normal scenario rules so I wanted it clarified. The rules are long, intricate, and in some cases poorly written.
Thank you Brooke for answering the question.
That does not sound good. I think there is going to be a lot of one and done.
There is a history of dismissing any comments that don't fit the existing template, because it's not going to be changed after the rules have been finalized, rigth? And CMs are unwilling to discuss the scenario after the fact, and never tell you ahead of time what the next scenario is before all is set in stone.... so there is no "right" time to discuss any issues with balance, historic accuracy, and so forth about scenarios. There is no discourse, no outlet for rational discussion. I have brought this up before on a number of scenario forums and it's rather frustrating.
Just be quiet and accept it Krusty that is the approved method.
-
LOL, chill Guppy, chill!
Did you not see the laughing emoticon? :rofl <-- this = "I make teh joke" -- and if you want to get into the debate about the Ju88s in BOB we can start another thread. You paint them in too kind a light.
There is a history of dismissing any comments that don't fit the existing template, because it's not going to be changed after the rules have been finalized, rigth? And CMs are unwilling to discuss the scenario after the fact, and never tell you ahead of time what the next scenario is before all is set in stone.... so there is no "right" time to discuss any issues with balance, historic accuracy, and so forth about scenarios. There is no discourse, no outlet for rational discussion. I have brought this up before on a number of scenario forums and it's rather frustrating.
Did you actually believe the CM team would give you any count of credibility after saying this? I can only imagine what their response will be to this. Maybe, "The CM Team discusses and we know what is best for the community." Or, "Sign up to be a Scenario CM Member if you'd like your opinion to be valid." Or, "Why can't you just shutup and have fun. That's what this is all about, FUN."
I am on your side Krusty. Many of us have said this before and, like always, it is brushed under the rug.
Back on topic...is it out of the question to ask why the normal 2-life system was abandoned for this setup? Is it the Scenario CM Team's belief that forcing 109's to fly Ju 87's in their second life will help the event? Also, does the Scenario CM Team believe that having a chance at a 1-sortie Scenario as an RAF pilot will improve the event? Please, I am being genuine and seeking thoughts. I am not putting words in your mouth nor am I criticizing. Simply trying to grasp why the radical changes were made knowing the obvious problems with scenarios recently.
-
My understanding from those who have flown this event in the past, each has been very competitive. No one has said that the 88s ruined the scenario. That being said, it's less 88s this time so I can't quite see how it's an issue.
The RAF rose to the occasion back then. They didn't concede before a shot was fired.
Remember the guys you are representing and what they accomplished. Sadly there are very few of "the Few" left.
While I'm flying a 109E in this one, understand the guys below are my heroes and have been my heroes for far longer than any computer game. Enjoy the chance to put yourself in their spot, as much as a computer game will allow.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/Coltishall.jpg)
Well said Guppy, I agree with you abiut The Few. They're my heroes too. I flew the 04 Scenario as a walkon 110 pilot. I was 10 in 04 and had no earthly idea what I was doing at all. But after doing research over the years I know a lot about the Summer of 1940 and I can't wait for September!
-
Opps, my bad, lot of things to read. There are no Cannons on the HE111. I overlooked a confirmation in our design review.
-
The rules are long, intricate, and in some cases poorly written.
They have to be long, too many legal beagles want to fly by spreadsheet instead of in the air. And poorly written can be subjective. If some people can figure it out, others can't, then it's simply a matter of clarification. Methinks you protest too much.
Simply trying to grasp why the radical changes were made knowing the obvious problems with scenarios recently.
Much of what you say would be far more credible if you would add "imho" because you spout facts that are simply your opinion, and you do not speak for everyone. You are also very unclear about what exactly many people think is also a very obvious problem with scenarios, in their opinions ;)
Yet another perfectly good discussion, perfectly happy thread, perfectly enjoyable event that is now turning into yet one more pissing contest. And who is the usual suspects? Same old same old.
FSO, Snapshots, AvA, SEC, Multiple variations of the main arena. My goodness there are so many other things you can do if you are not happy with this event. Go find something you enjoy, lifes too short.
But again, as I've said in the past, there is such a limited time for you all to figure out what you have to work with and how to win this thing, if you want to spend your time bickering and complaining while the other side is gleefully putting plans together to capitalize on your distractions, so be it. I'm not going to stop you. I do have every intention of allowing either side to waste precious time and screw up their victory. At some point, your COs are going to tire of if and ask me to deal with it. I will.
Have fun with that :aok
-
Hello, my name is Leitwolf and i am a confessing scenarioholic.
As far as I know I have been in all BoB Scenarios in AH, including the FSO version that predated it (that is so ancient history.. back then FSO had a different name.. was it called ToD?) :old:
I shall be flying the mighty Hurriba^H^Hcane this time around and I do not fear the Ju88 at all. The 88's "overpoweredness" is an utter non-factor.
If there is a problem with the planes it lies with the Me110 (which in AH is much better than history would suggest).
However, neither issue can change the fact that this is one of the most fun(!), well balanced, and close run things this format has to offer, and I for one shall welcome our german overlor, no, wait, "offer them a drink in the channel". :cheers:
-
Back on topic...is it out of the question to ask why the normal 2-life system was abandoned for this setup? Is it the Scenario CM Team's belief that forcing 109's to fly Ju 87's in their second life will help the event? Also, does the Scenario CM Team believe that having a chance at a 1-sortie Scenario as an RAF pilot will improve the event? Please, I am being genuine and seeking thoughts. I am not putting words in your mouth nor am I criticizing. Simply trying to grasp why the radical changes were made knowing the obvious problems with scenarios recently.
The number of lives varies from scenario to scenario. For example, Rangoon, '42, Coral Sea, and Rangoon 2008 were one-life events. Battle of Britain 2004, BoB 2006, and BoB 2008 were as it is for BoB 2013. Stalin's Fourth was based on a number of aircraft available, with fewer pilots showing up meaning more lives for those who did show up. Operation Downfall had unlimited lives. Der Grosse Schlag, Battle Over Germany, and DGS II had 1 life for bomber pilots. How these things (and the other multitude of design parameters) are picked is based on the designer's idea of what will be the best mix of fun, realism, balance, action, etc.
There are some people who prefer single-life events because they feel it adds a lot more realism to the feel of the event. Some folks prefer 2 lives. Some folks prefer unlimited lives. The Battle of Britain scenario design was first made in 2004 by Tilt. This one is geared toward the more-realistic side of number of lives (i.e., 1 if you die your plane as an RAF pilot). However, since there were cases of RAF pilots bailing out and getting back to base, that element is brought in. So, that gives on average for the RAF more than 1 life. On the LW side, you can't do that, as the rescue was less likely and would take far longer to get a pilot back to base; and you have another problem to solve. There were lots of Ju 87's in the battle, but you aren't going to get people to sign up to fly only Ju 87's. So, instead of 1 life for LW fighter pilots, you give them a life in Ju 87's, too, and will solve both those aspects.
It was run in 2004, 2006, 2008, and now 2013. The previous 3 runnings were popular (as judged by several rounds of polling of the players) and well balanced (as judged by the first two being nearly draws). If I see a past design that was popular and balanced, my feeling is that changes should be small except for replacing any substitute planes with the more-correct planes that have been added to AH. I'm not the only scenario CM, so it's not my call, but that's what I'd recommend.
So, in short, BoB is this way because that's how it was originally designed based on designer's feeling of what is best (and not every player will agree); it worked well in the past; and we didn't change much.
-
Hello, my name is Leitwolf and i am a confessing scenarioholic.
I like everything that you said -- except you should be flying Luftwaffe! ;)
-
I like everything that you said -- except you should be flying Luftwaffe! ;)
Oh no you dont! Hurricanes UNITE!!! :joystick:
-
The only time Jagdfliegerfürher is mentioned is the Base Relocation rule here:
9) Between-Frame Relocation. Gruppen base fields can be moved around (between Frames, after Frame 1) within Jafu but not across Jafu. A staffel can be moved to a new base, but that new base must be in the same Jafu and must be one of the bases listed in the original list of active bases for frame 1. The staffel can be moved to a small airfield only if that small airfield will then have two or fewer staffel based there and to a large airfield only if that large airfield will then have four or fewer staffel based there. HE111/Ju 88 staffel can only be moved to airfields that have those planes enabled.
Trying my best to not say something about the run-on sentence. DOH! Where are the Jafü? It hasn't been mentioned anywhere else in the writeup except here. So, we can move inside our own Jafü but not to another one. Easy enough, where the hell are they?
-
Oh no you dont! Hurricanes UNITE!!! :joystick:
Heh! :aok
"I don't always fly RAF in the Battle of Britain. But when I do, I fly Hurricanes."
(http://i1.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/002/598/The-Most-Interesting-Man-in-the-World.jpg)
-
I flew Hurri I's in frame 4 of BoB2004 and killed two Ju 88's and put rounds into at least a couple others in four engagements. They are fast, but not uncatchable. A little alt on them, and you can catch them. Also, regardless of whether they are difficult to catch or not, they were in the real battle.
My four bomber engagements: <cut>
In all your images, why are none of the bombers shooting back at you? Does the film player (and or screen capture) not show other peoples tracers?
-
In all your images, why are none of the bombers shooting back at you? Does the film player (and or screen capture) not show other peoples tracers?
They were. Might be that I happened to pick a particular instant for the shot where the tracers back to me weren't visible (in between bursts from gunners), or see below for some other thoughts on that.
In the first engagement, this is what happened to me a few seconds later:
(http://electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/scenarios/battle_britain_2006/pics/frame4/012_pilotwound.jpg)
I blacked out, came to, and tried to press an attack on another bomber, but had to break off because of defensive fire:
(http://electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/scenarios/battle_britain_2006/pics/frame4/014_morehitsout.jpg)
In the 2nd engagement, lots of defensive fire:
(http://electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/scenarios/battle_britain_2006/pics/frame4/018_frontalhits.jpg)
The third one, I was taking hits, but I don't have any pics showing the defensive fire.
For the fourth engagement, here is a pic right before the one I posted previously, and I think some of the streaks are his fire back at me.
(http://electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/scenarios/battle_britain_2006/pics/frame4/0027b_another.jpg)
I think that it might be in the film viewer, tracers from bomber fire are not as prevalent as it seems in game. For example, here is a pick of me hammering a Spit V in the recent Mediterranean Maelstrom scenario from in my Ju 88. I was definitely hammering away at him at this time, and while you see some tracers, you don't see a solid stream of them into the Spit V, which is how it was at my end while wailing away.
(http://electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/scenarios/201303_mediterraneanMaelstrom/pics/frame4/001-1stEngage-SNAG-0013.jpg)
-
So, we can move inside our own Jafü but not to another one. Easy enough, where the hell are they?
Ahh poo, I thought I took that out of there. Thanks! Missed it.
9) Between-Frame Relocation. Frame 1 launch fields are the available airfields used throughout the event. JG groups my be relocated to any active airfields for the remaining frames. Relocation must occur prior to frame start, and not change during the frame itself. Small airfields are limited to 2 JG groups, large fields limited to 4 JG groups.KG/G1/Test Group 210 can only be moved to airfields that have those planes enabled, A119,, A113, A95 and A96.
That's what it was supposed to say :bhead
Active fields, by the way, simply mean that is where the aircraft are available. Fighters can rearm anywhere.
-
Was the a4 variant of the ju88 introduced early enough to be in service during the battle of britain? Is the HE 111 we have a BOB variant?
Is the terrain available for download?
I'm surprised it's assumed that few would want to fly stukas in the scenario. If I were on the axis team that's what I would want to fly. Maybe it's because they don't have dive sirens like they should. Sound engineering has always been this games weakness.
-
will RADAR operators be able to tell numbers and alt?
-
ROC, with the matter of the 20mm cannons, He111Hs were fitting more and more of them in the nose during the BOB. H-3s started carrying them and they were being field-retrofit to earlier models as well.
The criticism was that they fired slower, and weren't much of a deterent from head-on attacks. They don't shoot backwards either. I (personally) don't see a reason to deny them as an option, but either way will work.
Floob: The A-4 we have is definitely post-BOB. It's been the only thing we had since the start, so it's been the only German bomber used in every BOB (including in the FSOs/snapshots, etc), but it isn't time-appropriate.
The dive sirens on the Stukas were removed early on, even during the Polish campaign. They were on Ju-87Bs, and only early models. They were a drag, and slowed the plane down. They served no purpose other than to terrorize civilian populations, and were stripped from airframes for practical reasons.
You'll be hard-pressed to find a picture of a Ju87 with a dive siren on it. Most faired it over with a round bump where the spinner was mounted, like here:
http://www.uavde.com/ju87b/pix-ju87/ju87bStuka.jpg
And later models just omitted the mounting point entirely. It isn't an issue for our BOB, in all honesty.
-
will RADAR operators be able to tell numbers and alt?
The radar operators will be able to see dots, within any active radar ring along the coast. No way to determine the altitude by viewing the map. Only the Rook VHs will have tower radar, which is a neutral field, the RAF pilots in flight won't have any radar at all.
-
I'm surprised it's assumed that few would want to fly stukas in the scenario.
Not assumed -- based on past scenarios with Ju 87's.
-
ROC, with the matter of the 20mm cannons, He111Hs were fitting more and more of them in the nose during the BOB. H-3s started carrying them and they were being field-retrofit to earlier models as well.
The criticism was that they fired slower, and weren't much of a deterent from head-on attacks. They don't shoot backwards either. I (personally) don't see a reason to deny them as an option, but either way will work.
Floob: The A-4 we have is definitely post-BOB. It's been the only thing we had since the start, so it's been the only German bomber used in every BOB (including in the FSOs/snapshots, etc), but it isn't time-appropriate.
The dive sirens on the Stukas were removed early on, even during the Polish campaign. They were on Ju-87Bs, and only early models. They were a drag, and slowed the plane down. They served no purpose other than to terrorize civilian populations, and were stripped from airframes for practical reasons.
You'll be hard-pressed to find a picture of a Ju87 with a dive siren on it. Most faired it over with a round bump where the spinner was mounted, like here:
http://www.uavde.com/ju87b/pix-ju87/ju87bStuka.jpg
And later models just omitted the mounting point entirely. It isn't an issue for our BOB, in all honesty.
In the cannon discussion everything we could find said the 111 got the 20mm in the nose with the H-6 which was introduced post B of B so that's what we went with. If you've got information showing that the 20mm was the primary nose gun on B of B 111s, pass it on and we'll throw it in the pile for next time B of B runs. At this point changing it to be a field modded 111 with a 20mm would mean every 111 would have them in the scenario and I just haven't seen anything to suggest that's the case in the actual B of B.
-
They have to be long, too many legal beagles want to fly by spreadsheet instead of in the air. And poorly written can be subjective. If some people can figure it out, others can't, then it's simply a matter of clarification. Methinks you protest too much.
Oh yes damn those people who want to follow the rules. Jafu. It does not surprise me that you thinks that. Any bit of protest is too much for most of you.
-
Guppy, check PMs. :aok
-
Got em. Thanks :aok
-
Never mind, too easy ;)
-
Never mind, too easy ;)
Which means, "Oops, I was about to break another rule as a CM."
-
Perdue3 you what to fly this event?
If so then I suggest you stop with the bashing CM Team comments.
Continue this type of action and I'll see to it you don't fly any special events.
-
Which means, "Oops, I was about to break another rule as a CM."
No perdue, it means that I remembered you were simply as irrelevant to the event as you were when I shuffled you off to the ozone in DGS. You really should spend your time in the LW forums actually participating with the rest of your team before you end up just as irrelevant in another event.
Trust me, I have no problem saying what's on my mind, it's just a matter of scale, and relevance, and interest on my part. I simply lost interest. Kind of like my little cat who just poked a hole in my new couch. Love that cat, cute as hell, daughter just adores it. But as I told my daughter, we live way to close to the river for that cat do ruin my stuff. One more time, stupid thing goes for a swim.
You have proven, again, you are less than vital to anything going on here. Either make yourself useful or move on. Clear enough or do I need a new rule?
-
No perdue, it means that I remembered you were simply as irrelevant to the event as you were when I shuffled you off to the ozone in DGS. You really should spend your time in the LW forums actually participating with the rest of your team before you end up just as irrelevant in another event.
Trust me, I have no problem saying what's on my mind, it's just a matter of scale, and relevance, and interest on my part. I simply lost interest. Kind of like my little cat who just poked a hole in my new couch. Love that cat, cute as hell, daughter just adores it. But as I told my daughter, we live way to close to the river for that cat do ruin my stuff. One more time, stupid thing goes for a swim.
You have proven, again, you are less than vital to anything going on here. Either make yourself useful or move on. Clear enough or do I need a new rule?
Nice. I'll abuse my moderate amount of power like last time. :lol
-
Oh whats wrong kilo? Some of you want to run roughshod over people but cry foul when they challenge it? Complain when responses don't come but complain further when they do :rofl Think perhaps you are free to pile on because, perhaps, we are easy targets due to our not being "allowed" to reply?
So much effort put into showboating out here, but no effort at all where the event is actually occurring. Some things will never change :) Predictable as the sun rising. Missing the point in so many different ways, dude it's like you aren't event trying.
Go do something productive, be part of your team. Or not, still entirely your choice. As usual, I'm having a rather enjoyable time keeping up with how much time some of you spend doing nothing while others are carrying the ball for you. I'm sure your team mates are ever so grateful for your efforts. Have you, by any slim chance, used any of your energy to provide anything productive at all for those who might have to rely on you? Are you going to make yourself irrelevant by lack of effort and participation..again?
Remember, I said I had every intention of letting you guys waste your time. I'm sure the other side is more than pleased right now. Carry on.
-
Just here to ask a question: the one life or whatever the particulars were is for each frame, correct? And not the entire scenario?
-
Just here to ask a question: the one life or whatever the particulars were is for each frame, correct? And not the entire scenario?
Yep.Each frame. Good to see you joining in TJ :aok
-
Oh whats wrong kilo? Some of you want to run roughshod over people but cry foul when they challenge it? Complain when responses don't come but complain further when they do :rofl Think perhaps you are free to pile on because, perhaps, we are easy targets due to our not being "allowed" to reply?
So much effort put into showboating out here, but no effort at all where the event is actually occurring. Some things will never change :) Predictable as the sun rising. Missing the point in so many different ways, dude it's like you aren't event trying.
Go do something productive, be part of your team. Or not, still entirely your choice. As usual, I'm having a rather enjoyable time keeping up with how much time some of you spend doing nothing while others are carrying the ball for you. I'm sure your team mates are ever so grateful for your efforts. Have you, by any slim chance, used any of your energy to provide anything productive at all for those who might have to rely on you? Are you going to make yourself irrelevant by lack of effort and participation..again?
Remember, I said I had every intention of letting you guys waste your time. I'm sure the other side is more than pleased right now. Carry on.
I would like to point out I haven't complained once in this thread.
Having questions about the event is not "showboating."
I said the same thing when I saw the rules write up same story different scenario.
We show up to every meeting setup for GLs and follow our orders. We even had a member skinning planes for this scenario. The notion that we don't do anything productive(what you deem productive) is false.
No I have not become a Luft cheerleader or joined the RP bar in LW.
I don't get why you keep bringing up the make yourself irrelevant line. You admitted to making perd irrelevant by "sending him to the ozone." Doesn't seem like our problem.
-
I've read the event rules and I didn't see any mention of Radar Range. Did I miss it?
I did noticed that the base flashing range is only 7 miles, which means bases get about 1 to 1.5 minutes warning (and of course the chance to intercept with a 1 minute warning is pretty close to nil).
-
Just as an aside .... I posted this in the RAF forum but since it has no classified information I thought I'd share it here:
In this event it is my intent to take on the persona of an American who came to fight for the RAF.
Historically (well, arguably, as you will see) there were only 9* (prior to the formation of the official Eagle squadrons, which was after BoB):
(http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/uploads/pics/Fiske.jpg)
William M.L. Fiske (No. 601 Squadron - not depicted in this event)
Fiske was born in New York in 1911, the son of Beulah and William Fiske, a New England
banking magnate. He attended school in Chicago, and then went to school in France in
1924, where he discovered the sport of bobsled at the age of 16. Fiske attended Trinity Hall,
Cambridge in 1928 where he studied Economics and History.
Shortly before the outbreak of World War II, Fiske was recalled to the New York offices of
Dillon, Reed & Co, but on 30 August 1939 he returned to England aboard the Aquitania
accompanying a bank colleague who was also a member of No. 601 (County of London)
Auxiliary Air Force Squadron. Fiske pretended to be a Canadian. He joined the Royal Air
Force Volunteer Reserve and was promoted to the rank of Pilot Officer on 23 March 1940.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/58/Carl_Raymond_Davis.jpg)
Flying Officer Carl R. Davis (No. 601 Squadron - not depicted in this event)
Born in Krugersdorp, Transvaal in South Africa to American parents, Davis was educated
in England at Sherborne School, and Trinity College, Cambridge (Bachelor of Arts) and at
McGill University, Montreal (Bachelor of Arts qualifying as a mining engineer). Becoming a
British citizen in 1932.
(http://www.raf.mod.uk/rafcms/mediafiles/28C54FFC_1143_EC82_2E4142AFC2791580.gif)
(http://www.raf.mod.uk/rafcms/mediafiles/00533CEF_5056_A318_A8AA5DA7EF734AEE.gif)
(the so-called "Millionaires' Squadron")
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-0bzIS_o-FL0/T2TEAPxLKfI/AAAAAAAAAQQ/okf_Rwun5xI/s1600/American%2Btrio.jpg)
Pilot Officers Eugene Tobin, Vernon C. Keough and Andrew Mamedoff (No. 609 Squadron - depicted in this event - 6 aircraft [Spitfire I])
Eugene Tobin
Born in Los Angeles, California, the son of Ignatius Quimby Tobin and Mary Alicia Tobin
(nee O'Fallon). Tobin initially came to Europe to fight on the side of Finland against the
Soviet Union's invasion of that country, but hostilities had ceased before he arrived. He
was already a qualified pilot, having learned to fly in the 1930s.
Vernon C. Keough
At 4' 10" Keough was the smallest pilot in the RAF and had to use two cushions in his
Spitfire to see out of the cockpit. Born in Brooklyn, New York around 1912, the son
Charles and Constance Theresa Keough. He had earned a civil pilot's license in America
and was also a professional parachute jumper with over 500 jumps, performing at air
shows across America.
Andrew Mamedoff
Born in Thompson, Connecticut, where his White Russian family had settled in the early
1910s. Interestingly, it is believed that he was Jewish of Russian heritage. Mamedoff
attended Bryant College in the early 1930s. He had learned to fly in the USA and even
had his own plane with which he performed at airshows. He and Eugene Tobin had been
flying friends at Mines Field in California before the war. He was attempting to set up
charter services in Miami immediately prior to the war. Mamedoff initially came to Europe
to fight on the side of Finland against the Soviet Union, but hostilities had ceased before
he arrived. In 1941 Mamedoff married an English woman, Alys Laird "Penny" Mamedoff
(née Craven) at Epping. He became the first of the Americans to take a war bride during
World War II.
(http://www.raf.mod.uk/rafcms/mediafiles/28C5505A_1143_EC82_2E48976CFA0CCB60.gif)
(http://www.raf.mod.uk/rafcms/mediafiles/006109C0_5056_A318_A8445176D656571B.gif)
(PRoP! - I love it. Now this would be a good skin to add. Someone [who is skilled], please don't make me try.) :D
(http://ts4.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.4890590149019167&pid=15.1)
Pilot Officer Phillip H. Leckrone (No. 616 Squadron - not depicted in this event)
Leckrone was from Salem, Illinois, the son of William and Lottie Leckrone. He was married
to Mackenzie A. Leckrone. He was an experienced pilot, owning his own aircraft.
(http://www.raf.mod.uk/rafcms/mediafiles/28C550A8_1143_EC82_2EFE06B81C63AE92.gif)
(http://www.raf.mod.uk/rafcms/mediafiles/006926AA_5056_A318_A8C849CB75C50B29.gif)
(http://ts4.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.4828330340189571&pid=15.1)
Pilot Officer Arthur G. Donahue (No. 64 Squadron depicted in this event - 6 aircraft [Spitfire I])
Donahue was born to Frank and Ada Donahue on 29 January 1913 and was raised on a
dairy farm near St. Charles, Minnesota. As a teenager, he learned to fly at Conrad Flying
Service, operated by Max Conrad, an aviator known as the "Flying Grandfather" who set
numerous world records for distance and endurance flying. After learning how to fly and
becoming Minnesota's youngest commercially certificated pilot at the age of 19, Donahue
worked for Conrad helping to run the flight school until he left to join the Royal Air Force.
Donahue had heard that pilots were being recruited in Canada, so he traveled there,
claimed to be Canadian, and was accepted.
(http://www.raf.mod.uk/rafcms/mediafiles/28C55115_1143_EC82_2EF9E11EF04AEA49.gif)
(http://www.raf.mod.uk/rafcms/mediafiles/FFD65BC9_5056_A318_A80498EDC1270F7A.gif)
(http://en.ww2awards.com/images/nopic_eng_100150p.gif)
John K. Haviland (No. 1 Squadron [not depicted in this event] and No. 151 Squadron - depicted in this event - 6 aircraft [Hurricane I])
Born in Mount Kisco, New York, the son of a US Navy officer and an English mother,
Haviland was educated in England from the age of five and was educated at Nottingham
University and the University of London. He joined the Royal Air Force Reserve in July
1939 and was called up for war service in September of the same year.
(http://www.raf.mod.uk/rafcms/mediafiles/055FB0CC_5056_A318_A858D9473349D2FA.gif)
(http://www.raf.mod.uk/rafcms/mediafiles/00747A25_5056_A318_A824F7061C0BC4BE.gif)
(http://www.raf.mod.uk/rafcms/mediafiles/FFF4F962_5056_A318_A8EA9E8B85149E44.gif)
(http://ts3.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.4860787383271854&pid=15.1)
De Peyster Brown (1 RCAF Squadron - not depicted in this event)
Born December 1915 in Pennsylvania. Brown joined the Royal Canadian Air Force claiming
to be of Canadian nationality on 9 September 1939[4] and was posted to No. 112 Squadron
RCAF. On arrival in England he was sent to No. 5 OTU RAF Aston Down to convert to
Hurricanes and then to No. 1 Squadron RCAF at RAF Northolt on 2 September 1940.
On 27 September 1940 he claimed a Dornier Do 17 destroyed and a shared Junkers Ju 88.
On 5 October he was badly shot up in combat with Bf109's but nevertheless pursued one into
cloud, being later credited with a 'damaged'. His own aircraft crashed on landing back at Northolt
but he was uninjured.
Brown transferred to the United States Army Air Forces on 25 May 1942. He was given the rank
of Lieutenant, later promoted Captain, and held the rank of Major when he retired. He remained
in the service for 12 years after the end of World War II and after the war was involved with the Berlin
Airlift.
Regrettably, neither No. 64 nor No. 609 squadrons have skins for the Spit I.
As mentioned earlier, some of the above individuals later became members of the three Eagle Squadrons
made up of exclusively of American pilots and formed between September 1940 and October 1941; No 71,
121 and 133 Squadrons.
And it seems I may have to adopt an accent of some sort, no matter ... except for the fact that there's
already a pinch of virtual alternate reality (kinda like that Pearl Harbor movie - now I need a beer for the bad
taste in my mouth).
(In a later post I discussed discrepancies about the list of U.S. pilot participants over time)
From Bruv:
(http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c181/Bruv119/tangmere/P1010454_zps1f3f3e7f.jpg)
(Thank you)
Wiki (some refuse to take this as a valid source but it is oft my first step used in online research .... yielding to more sources with time) considers this a comprehensive list of U.S. pilot participants in the Battle of Britain:
Pilots
According to Kenneth G Wynn's Men of the Battle of Britain published in 1999, and the list currently held by the Royal Air Force,[3] 11 American pilots qualified for the 1939-1945 Star with Battle of Britain clasp:
De Peyster Brown – No. 401 Squadron RCAF
Carl Raymond Davis – No. 601 Squadron (born in South Africa to American parents. Took British citizenship in 1932)
Arthur Gerald Donahue – No. 601 Squadron
William Meade Lindsley Fiske – No. 601 Squadron
John Kenneth Haviland – No. 151 Squadron
Vernon Charles Keough – No. 609 Squadron
Phillip Howard Leckrone – No. 616 Squadron
Andrew Mamedoff – No. 609 Squadron
Otto John Peterson – No. 401 Squadron RCAF (?)
Eugene Quimby Tobin – No. 609 Squadron
Alexander Roman Zatonski – No. 79 Squadron (?)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-British_personnel_in_the_RAF_during_the_Battle_of_Britain#United_States_contribution
(note Reilly's omission [ I originally had him listed] and Peterson and Zatonski's addition - Reilly's family successfully challenged the widespread claim of his U.S. citizenship)
:salute to all
-
Art Donahue was a fellow Minnesotan. He wrote two books prior to his death over the Channel in 1942. The first was about his joining the RAF and his Battle of Britain experience. The second covered his time flying Hurricanes in the defense of Singapore.
I corresponded way back when with a New Zealand Spit pilot who had flown as Donahues wing man during the time just prior to his loss. Had a chance to visit his hometown too down in Southeastern Minnesota. Its a tiny little town. They had copies of his books in the local library and the local newspaper had copies of the stories written at the time when he came home on leave. A fascinating man.
-
Art Donahue was a fellow Minnesotan. He wrote two books prior to his death over the Channel in 1942. The first was about his joining the RAF and his Battle of Britain experience. The second covered his time flying Hurricanes in the defense of Singapore.
I corresponded way back when with a New Zealand Spit pilot who had flown as Donahues wing man during the time just prior to his loss. Had a chance to visit his hometown too down in Southeastern Minnesota. Its a tiny little town. They had copies of his books in the local library and the local newspaper had copies of the stories written at the time when he came home on leave. A fascinating man.
I'm sensing a road trip in my future. ;)
-
I'm sensing a road trip in my future. ;)
There is a nice little wartime written memoir by D.M. Crook called "Spitfire Pilot". He was with 609 squadron during the Battle and talks a lot about Tobin, Mamendof and Keough. Might be worth tracking down. You'd cover the most ground representing them in 609 :)
-
There is a nice little wartime written memoir by D.M. Crook called "Spitfire Pilot". He was with 609 squadron during the Battle and talks a lot about Tobin, Mamendof and Keough. Might be worth tracking down. You'd cover the most ground representing them in 609 :)
I've submitted the request. I may try to recruit a skinner. :)
(http://www.raf.mod.uk/rafcms/mediafiles/006109C0_5056_A318_A8445176D656571B.gif)
-
I would like to point out I haven't complained once in this thread.
:headscratch: Odd, the only thing you posted up to that point was a complaint regarding a conversation you weren't even a part of :) You crack me up :aok Thanks, busy day at the office and I really enjoy these little breaks.
-
Speaking of 609. There is/was an AH player with the ID SF3. His grandfather was with 609 during the Battle too. Did some digging on him and he had a 110 kill. Did a profile of his Grandfather's kite to show him the markings
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/609Forshaw44.jpg)
-
You've always been good about that, Dan. :)
Alas, the ....
PR(http://www.rccombat.com/asp/workshop/downloads/raf_roundel1.jpg)P
... caught my eye. :D
-
:headscratch: Odd, the only thing you posted up to that point was a complaint regarding a conversation you weren't even a part of :) You crack me up :aok Thanks, busy day at the office and I really enjoy these little breaks.
I have been part of this conversation for the last 4 pages. You're delusional.
-
Just as an aside ....
Awesome post, Arlo! <S>
In case you haven't already read it, there is a great book about these guys: "The Few", by Kershaw. It is marvelously written and very detailed with their stories and backgrounds. Extremely interesting. The Kindle edition is only $10.
-
I have been part of this conversation for the last 4 pages. You're delusional.
Oh, My bad, I do apologize. Your first post was asking about a rule that was in the write up then complained about the write up being too long and poorly written. When you posted that you hadn't complained once, it threw me. Totally my fault for confusing you with someone else :) Sorry about that :aok
-
Oh, My bad, I do apologize. Your first post was asking about a rule that was in the write up then complained about the write up being too long and poorly written. When you posted that you hadn't complained once, it threw me. Totally my fault for confusing you with someone else :) Sorry about that :aok
That is not a complaint just the truth.
-
I've read the event rules and I didn't see any mention of Radar Range. Did I miss it?
It's listed only as a setting (so not that easy to spot) -- 50 miles.
-
Awesome post, Arlo! <S>
In case you haven't already read it, there is a great book about these guys: "The Few", by Kershaw. It is marvelously written and very detailed with their stories and backgrounds. Extremely interesting. The Kindle edition is only $10.
I'm compiling a list to go with my Jolly Rogers collection. :D
-
The few within the few
Andrew Roberts reviews The Few: July-October 1940 by Alex Kershaw
The title of this fine and at times deeply moving book refers to the handful of American pilots - eight in all - who defied Congress's 1907 Citizenship Act and various strict Neutrality Acts in order to fly for the RAF in the Battle of Britain, 18 months before the USA entered the war. They automatically lost their American citizenship by doing so, and risked several years' imprisonment and a $10,000 fine.
These pilots acted out of very different and sometimes overlapping motives - some were adventurous thrill-seekers, others hated Nazism, others just wanted to fly the Supermarine Spitfire, but whichever reasons were uppermost, they were in the skies when Britain most desperately needed them.
Taking an oath of allegiance to a foreign monarch wasn't easy for any of them, but since they all believed that sooner or later America would be fighting Germany anyhow, these immensely brave young twenty-somethings went ahead and did it.
Eugene 'Red' Tobin was the lanky, ginger-haired son of a Los Angeles real-estate broker. His mother died of TB when he was five. An MGM pilot who flew actors around Californian film sets, he explained later: 'I just felt I wanted to fly some of these powerful machines.' Andy Mamedoff came from Thompson, Connecticut, and after he was turned down by the American air force he volunteered to fight in Finland, before the Finnish resistance collapsed. Vernon 'Shorty' Keough grew up in Brooklyn and was, at 4 ft 10 in, the shortest man to fly for the RAF. A professional skydiver with more than 500 jumps to his name, he didn't care which air force he flew for against the Luftwaffe.
These three were recruited to fly originally for the French air force by Colonel Charles Sweeny, a mercenary who had twice been expelled from West Point and whose battle 'honours' included Mexico, Venezuela, Nicaragua, the French foreign legion, Poland (versus Russia in 1920), advising Kemal Attaturk, and a spell in the Spanish Civil War. Even in a work full of larger-than-life characters Sweeny stands out, almost deserving a book in himself.
Tobin, Mamedoff and Keough went via Canada to land at St Nazaire on 30 May, 1940, just as the Dunkirk evacuation was underway. They were then held up by French bureaucracy for four days before getting to Paris, where they stayed until the government fled first to Tours and then Bordeaux. When finally it looked like the French would let them fly for them, the airfield was bombed by Stukas.
After sleeping in haylofts, hitching lifts and at some points staying only two hours ahead of the invading German forces, the three would-be airmen escaped from France a full week after the Armistice on one of the last refugee ships to leave. They arrived in Plymouth cold and seasick, and when they got to London the US Embassy scolded them for 'jeopardising neutrality'. It was only when a Tory MP called Roland Robinson took up their cause that the Air Ministry got them interviewed for the RAF, where they fought valiantly throughout the Battle of Britain, shooting down Messerschmitts, Heinkels and Stukas.
William Meade Fiske III seems like a figure straight from an Alexander Korda propaganda movie; the handsome son of a wealthy Anglophile New York banker, 'The King of Speed' won the bobsleigh gold medal in the 1928 Olympics aged 16, and then again four years later. He would probably have won again in 1936 but refused on ideological grounds to take part in Hitler's games. A Cambridge history graduate, ladies' man, debonair charmer and winner of the Cresta Run grand championship, he learnt to fly in California.
Fiske left his job on Wall Street on 18 September, 1939 and, also pretending to be Canadian, joined his British friends, including Lord Beaverbrook's son, Max Aitken, in 601 (Auxiliary) Squadron, known throughout the RAF - with reason - as 'the Millionaires'. Arthur Donahue, by contrast, grew up on a farm in Minnesota during the Depression. An Irish Catholic teetotaller, he felt that 'To fight side by side with the British people would be the greatest of privileges.'
From the moment the squadrons are scrambled - some getting into the air within two minutes - the pace of the book speeds into action. 'The sky was now crowded with darting and diving machines,' writes Kershaw, 'glinting like silverfins as they caught the sun.'
It is in the battle scenes that this book soars away heavenward like one of the Spitfires it so worships. 'We seemed to be milling about like a swarm of great gnats in this giant eerie amphitheatre above the clouds,' wrote Donahue of one engagement years later. 'A familiar sound of exploding cannon shells wracked my eardrums and my plane shook. Shrapnel banged and rattled and white tracers streamed by.'
The Americans were well received on bases such as Leconfield, Kenley, Middle Wallop and Tangmere. 'They were typical Americans,' recalled an RAF contemporary, 'amusing, always ready with some devastating wisecrack.' It was in defending Tangmere that Fiske was killed in August 1940. Only a few feet away from the pilot of a Hurricane was a fuel tank containing up to 85 gallons of high-octane fuel; in landing his plane after being hit by a Stuka's tail-end gunner, rather than bailing out, Fiske received burns that were to kill him two agonising days later.
Aged 28, Fiske was buried nearby at St Mary's Boxgrove, with both the Union flag and Stars and Stripes on his coffin. His headstone there reads: 'An American citizen who died that English might live.' Later that same day Churchill made his 'Never in the field of human conflict' speech.
>>>!!!>>>Hugh Reilley, who came from Detroit but also pretended to be Canadian in order to join up, was killed by the ME-109 flown by the top German ace Werner Molders, who had 50 kills to his name by the end of the Battle of Britain. In all, of the eight Americans who fought in that battle, only John Haviland of 151 Squadron, who had learnt to fly while at Nottingham University and went into battle after less than 20 hours flying fighters, survived the war. Art Donahue and Eugene Tobin's bodies were never found.<<<!!!<<<
(Reilly's family has since challenged this successfully, his son providing his Canadian birth certificate. He is now considered a Canadian hero and still well deserving of a <S>alute.)
During the rest of the war, 244 American citizens flew with the RAF Eagle Squadrons. By the end of this scintillating book, one is left feeling profoundly humble and thankful they did.
-
So ROC I assume at this point the He111's will not be having the cannons? The only reason I ask is I'd like to do practice runs with the He111 and I want to only use the loadouts we'll be allowed to use.
Also, I may have missed this in the rules but is friendly fire off between bombers?
Thanks again sir!
-
So ROC I assume at this point the He111's will not be having the cannons? The only reason I ask is I'd like to do practice runs with the He111 and I want to only use the loadouts we'll be allowed to use.
Also, I may have missed this in the rules but is friendly fire off between bombers?
Thanks again sir!
Beef,
Friendly fire answer found in arena set up details and special CM factoring part of rules and it states:
KillShooter 0 KillShooter is off -- be careful not to shoot your own countrymen.
The killshooter setting is arena wide...That is, if it is on, it is on for all, if off, then off for all.
Have a great run, my friend.
-
Beef,
Friendly fire answer found in arena set up details and special CM factoring part of rules and it states:
KillShooter 0 KillShooter is off -- be careful not to shoot your own countrymen.
The killshooter setting is arena wide...That is, if it is on, it is on for all, if off, then off for all.
Have a great run, my friend.
There is also a hefty penalty for shooting down a friendly.
DoH!
(http://images.thecarconnection.com/med/homer-simpson_100348705_m.jpg)
-
So ROC I assume at this point the He111's will not be having the cannons? The only reason I ask is I'd like to do practice runs with the He111 and I want to only use the loadouts we'll be allowed to use.
Also, I may have missed this in the rules but is friendly fire off between bombers?
Thanks again sir!
Hey Beef, yes Sir, practice your runs with the cannons disabled. Also, Killshooter is Off, so you will hit Friendlies.
-
I'm compiling a list to go with my Jolly Rogers collection. :D
I'm currently reading Tom Blackburn's book, great read.
-
I'm currently reading Tom Blackburn's book, great read.
:)
-
I'm currently reading Tom Blackburn's book, great read.
Yes it is. :aok
An extraordinary group of men. :salute
-
I'd like to see some 603 sqn Mk. Is! Having been on home defense duty in Scotland since the start of the war
"The Spitfires first went in action against genuinely hostile aircraft on 16 October 1939. On that day nine Junkers Ju 88A-1s of 1./KG 30 delivered an attack on Royal Navy warships in the Firth of Forth, and Nos 602 (Glasgow) and 603 (Edinburgh) Sqns of the Royal Auxiliary Air Force, based at Drem and Turnhouse respectively, were scrambled to engage the raiders over East Lothian. Flt Lt Pat Gifford of No 603 Sqn shot down one bomber and Flt Lts George Pinkerton and Archie McKellar (who would later score 17 kills on Hurricane Is, including five in one day, with No 605 Sqn during 1940) of No 602 Sqn destroyed another. Fighters on No 603 Sqn engaged yet another Ju 88 and shot out one of its engines, but it managed to escape back to Germany."
they were finally sent south to RAF Hornchurch on the 27th of August 1940 to join in the fight and headed back north for home defense duty in December 1940.
(http://www.spitfireperformance.com/222-603-spit.jpg)
222 (ZD) and 603 Squadron Spitfires (XT) at Hornchurch, 1 September 1940.
New Zealand born Flight Lieutenant Brian Carbury was posted to 603 squadron in August 1939 to train the pilots. As part of the Auxiliary Air Force, 603 were "part-time" pilots only flying on weekends. When it became obvious war was nearing the squadron was made full-time. Carbury would become the 5th highest scoring RAF pilot of the battle with 15 + 1/3 kills and was one of only three "aces in a day" of the battle when he shot down five aircraft on the 31st of August 1940.
603 also gained Australian born Richard Hillary who was best known for his book "The Last Enemy" and South African born Gerald Stapleton who was credited with shooting down Franz Von Werra.
-
Seems to me that XT-M is a fairly famous bird as it was flown by Richard Hillary of "The Last Enemy" fame. Might even be the one he was shot down in and so horribly burned
-
Seems to me that XT-M is a fairly famous bird as it was flown by Richard Hillary of "The Last Enemy" fame. Might even be the one he was shot down in and so horribly burned
If the photograph is indeed from the 1st of September that it is almost certainly that very aircraft. His aircraft was severely damaged on the 29th of August but was able to land unhurt. He was shot down on the 3rd of September, which would make it that very bird indeed.
-
Perdue3 you what to fly this event?
If so then I suggest you stop with the bashing CM Team comments.
Continue this type of action and I'll see to it you don't fly any special events.
4- Flamebaiting, flaming, being abusing, being disrepectful, trolling, spamming or posting to incite or annoy is not allowed. If you cannot make a positive contribution to the thread, then just stay out of it.
That is the rule I broke. 3 CM's have broken the same rule in this thread as well.
But I respect your authority and will remain quiet. My apologies.
-
At 10:30 am Pacific Time, I will be in the SEAII working on the event MOTD, Arena Settings and such. The map will be available for download, I will also have flight enabled so that anyone that wants to can fly around and check out their flights.
Note, I will be head down in settings and tabbing in and out, don't be offended if I "ignore" you, I'm not ignoring anyone, just not watching text.
-
(http://i448.photobucket.com/albums/qq209/Soulyss/AnnouncePosterFinal_zpse2338c3a.png)
Welcome to the Fall 2013 Scenario, Battle Of Britain. New terrain, HE111's, New Ground Guns, and a great leadership team.
Click Here To Register http://www.ahevents.org/events/scenarios/current-or-next-scenario.html (http://www.ahevents.org/events/scenarios/current-or-next-scenario.html)
Welcome Stellar as the RAF CO
Welcome Redtail7 as the Axis CO
Registration Is Now Open!
:airplane: :banana: :x Just checking in with you Brooke, am ready and have many squaddies going to man the JU-88's and German fighter escorts! I believe this going to a hoot and am looking forward to working with you and redtail7 on details. Just let me know what you want me to do and consider it done!
-
Thanks for flying, Earl! <S> :aok
-
:airplane: :banana: :x Just checking in with you Brooke, am ready and have many squaddies going to man the JU-88's and German fighter escorts! I believe this going to a hoot and am looking forward to working with you and redtail7 on details. Just let me know what you want me to do and consider it done!
Is there a way I can somehow request to escort Earls group specifically?
-
Is there a way I can somehow request to escort Earls group specifically?
Bobcat,
You register for the Luftwaffe in a 109 seat?
(http://cdn1.bigcommerce.com/server2300/930a2/products/97/images/205/Iron-Cross-VinylBLK__93791.1296329029.1280.1280.jpg) (http://www.ahevents.org/scenario-registration.html)
Well, if you have not, click on the Iron Cross above. This link will take you to the registration page. Then come back to the forum and request access to the Luftwaffe forum.
That should get you close to what you want?
:salute
-
Yep Im registered in a 109 :rock
I would love access to the LW forum.
Thanks.
-
Yep Im registered in a 109 :rock
I would love access to the LW forum.
Thanks.
Bobcat,
Check here for forum access. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,351871.0.html)
-
registered now 1/jg3!!! :salute :devil :devil
-
Are we there yet?
-
Arena Locks in exactly 30 minutes...................... .......
and One Month from Today! :D
-
Arena Locks in exactly 30 minutes...................... .......
and One Month from Today! :D
Damn I am so tired I though I missed the first FRAME!!! :rofl
-
Dear moderator,
I signed up for the RAF Hurricanes however it doesnt show my name there. is this a bug?
Also it seems since i singend up there 2 open space in the list of singed up folks "Nashorn, pattonjr, Vudu15, Mashed71, Vasco, LeitWolf, , jeff heuer, , Warloc,"
when i try to sign up again the page says " Already Registered. Contact a Scenario CM or your side's CO to arrange for changes in registration. "
I dont hope this will affect my spot in the RAF....
<salute>
-
Dear moderator,
I signed up for the RAF Hurricanes however it doesnt show my name there. is this a bug?
Also it seems since i singend up there 2 open space in the list of singed up folks "Nashorn, pattonjr, Vudu15, Mashed71, Vasco, LeitWolf, , jeff heuer, , Warloc,"
when i try to sign up again the page says " Already Registered. Contact a Scenario CM or your side's CO to arrange for changes in registration. "
I dont hope this will affect my spot in the RAF....
<salute>
AhhHAAA! There you are! Yes, we had a couple of blanks hit the registration, but until I knew who tried to register, I couldn't find the problem. Looking at it now and I may have a question or two for you if I can't fix it with just your game name. :aok
[EDIT] Look for a PM from me. Fixed.
-
Requesting RAF Hurri
-
Requesting RAF Hurri
Have some slots available in my squad of hurri's pm stellaris or bruv119 requesting allied forum access and look for the 32 squadron topic if youd like one of those slots :aok
EatG
-
Requesting RAF Hurri
added to RAF forum! welcome aboard!
-
Ok I'm supposed to request access for an axis forum but I can't find it. I'm a little confused. :headscratch:
-
I regged at the events forum, is it same for BoB?
regged as MADe, flying as RUNT.
I saw no choices for allies or axis.
Want to fly allies as a fighter.
total newb to the events.
:joystick:
-
MADe,
http://www.ahevents.org/scenario-registration.html
Log into ahevents.org then hit this page, select the RAF side, spits or hurricanes.
Since you already registered on the ahevents.org site, you simply head to the registration page now for BoB and that registers you for the actual event.
Let me know if you have any problems registering.
-
Drummer,
The RAF and Axis Cos are monitoring this thread, but just in case, the link for the Axis forum request is
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,351871.0.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,351871.0.html)
-
TY done.
Very hard to find the different links. For newbs, like moi, there should be a sticky with all relevant links placed together, and a brief synopsis of path to follow.
I had to register at 2 sites. Could find no BoB links listed at AH Events site, drop down. So it is slightly confusing.
No biggie.
ty
:joystick:
-
Appreciate it roc.
-
TY done.
Very hard to find the different links. For newbs, like moi, there should be a sticky with all relevant links placed together, and a brief synopsis of path to follow.
I had to register at 2 sites. Could find no BoB links listed at AH Events site, drop down. So it is slightly confusing.
No biggie.
ty
:joystick:
I'm also new to the events as a whole.... :joystick:
Can I play too!? :noid
-
Can I play too!?
Absolutely
-
Absolutely
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,351736.0.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,351736.0.html)
Thanks ROC!
-
I also registered as a Bf-109E pilot, a couple weeks ago now. I'm not showing up on the list either. Please help!
-
I also registered as a Bf-109E pilot, a couple weeks ago now. I'm not showing up on the list either. Please help!
jeff,
Guten morgen, go to the link below and request access to the Axis forum.
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,351871.0.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,351871.0.html)
:salute
-
jeff,
Guten morgen, go to the link below and request access to the Axis forum.
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,351871.0.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,351871.0.html)
:salute
Danke sehr.
-
Registered as Hurri pilot. IGN and name on ahevents is Bones87.
-
hi reaper I have added you to the RAF forum and included you in a squadron.
:salute
-
:salute did reg for a hurri last week.
-
:salute did reg for a hurri last week.
can't see a bortas on the registration list did you have a different name on there?
-
:salute no maybe I did it wrong. too late?
-
:salute no maybe I did it wrong. too late?
Not too late, Bortas. Just make sure to show up tomorrow (Saturday) on or before 3 pm Eastern US time.