Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Wmaker on July 30, 2013, 04:27:53 PM
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Il-2 Sturmovik - Battle of Stalingrad
http://il2sturmovik.com/ (http://il2sturmovik.com/)
It is being developed by a new team, the 777 studios in co-operation with the 1C. It will use an updated version of the Rise of Flight's graphics engine.
I'm just waiting and seeing what is coming. Based on the little that I've studied regarding aerodynamics and flight mechanics, I really liked the Rise of Flight's flight model in general. The problem with Rise of Flight's flight model was many times the relative performance between planes. WWII aircraft are generally much better documented and it's therefore much easier to find reliable performance data for them than it is for WWI aircraft.
So far I personally like to stay just as a curious observer myself as my rig wouldn't run it anyway and I like to hear some impressions on it first.
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I wonder if it will still use the same flight model?
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I wonder if it will still use the same flight model?
What same flight model?
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hmm if it has a campaign system like ROF Id have to pick this up.
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Can you download this game off of the internet or do you need the cd?
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I've already seen they're using the same sales model as RoF. Spend $50 bucks on a game, and then have to buy additional aircraft.
Nope.
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I've already seen they're using the same sales model as RoF. Spend $50 bucks on a game, and then have to buy additional aircraft.
Actually it's not the same as RoF. RoF initially came with only two aircraft. Based on the info announced BoS will contain the relevant aircraft (game play-wise) that took part to the battle and La-5 and Fw190A-3 will be available as DLC for those who buy the standard game. Jason said that if the game is successful, they plan on selling other theaters of operations with all the relevant planes as expansions instead of single planes.
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I've already seen they're using the same sales model as RoF. Spend $50 bucks on a game, and then have to buy additional aircraft.
Nope.
You only have to buy additional aircraft if you wish to fly them, otherwise the planes are in the game but only controlled by the AI.
ack-ack
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You only have to buy additional aircraft if you wish to fly them, otherwise the planes are in the game but only controlled by the AI.
ack-ack
That's what makes it WORSE.
It's already in the game and usable by the AI, there' s no reason to make you pay extra to make it usable by the player other than as a shameless cash grab.
Jason said that if the game is successful, they plan on selling other theaters of operations with all the relevant planes as expansions instead of single planes.
This isn't as bad, if it's an actual Expansion Pack. But the model RoF used and Ack-Ack is describing is pretty much robbery.
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Will be buying this ,i have no problem with paying for more aircraft as they come out , we've been doing this for years with Microsoft FS .
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I really hope they keep the simple but extensive engine management from RoF. You could change fuel mixture and radiator settings but they were so easy to keep track of that it wasn't cumbersome. Also hoping they keep the view system from RoF. RoF with some setting changes have the same view set ups as AH which made it extremely easy to transition over from AH. Plus, you aren't useless if you don't TrackIR. Please 777 Studios...make this good.
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Couple game footage clips:
http://youtu.be/CFBl49lQdeg (http://youtu.be/CFBl49lQdeg)
http://youtu.be/I1j0LFPNVko (http://youtu.be/I1j0LFPNVko)
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I've been following this for some time - with the RoF team in on this - it has potential.
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Some screenshots: http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3814642/IL2_Battle_of_Stalingrad_scree#Post3814642 (http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3814642/IL2_Battle_of_Stalingrad_scree#Post3814642)
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:rofl Imagined AH looked like that. Half the people would be pooping their pants and the other half will be crying on their 2001 Dells.
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don't we pay for new a/c in aces high? some months we pay and don't even get a new plane... wtf?
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don't we pay for new a/c in aces high? some months we pay and don't even get a new plane... wtf?
No, we pay for access to the arenas. The game is free. You can do offline stuff to your heart's content with every aircraft or tank they've modeled without ever paying a penny.
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We also used to have a free 8-player arena. Aces High was free2play before it was cool...
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I need to work on my sarcasm abit I guess.. For this or that, we pay money here or pay money there.. I don't see a difference..
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don't we pay for new a/c in aces high? some months we pay and don't even get a new plane... wtf?
:rofl
:)
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I've been following this for some time - with the RoF team in on this - it has potential.
It does but I still havnt forgotten the COD fiasco. I'll wait for it to come out. Im done with pre-ordering I dont care what they promise.
But for a per-Alpha that terrain and clouds do look purty.
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It does but I still havnt forgotten the COD fiasco.
Rise of Flight's development team not involved with the development of the CloD.
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Rise of Flight's development team not involved with the development of the CloD.
CloD is getting more fun for every new patch they release :aok
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That's what makes it WORSE.
It's already in the game and usable by the AI, there' s no reason to make you pay extra to make it usable by the player other than as a shameless cash grab.
This isn't as bad, if it's an actual Expansion Pack. But the model RoF used and Ack-Ack is describing is pretty much robbery.
RoF's business model is actually a good one and one that has been quite successful for them.
ack-ack
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CloD is getting more fun for every new patch they release :aok
Is it just me or does every plane in CloD seem abysmally slow compared to AH? I do have TeamFusion mod installed. I've also yet to see a plane explode mid air. Lots of holes and they crash but no ripped wings, no explosions, and very rarely do I see fire.
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What is ClOD?
Thanks.
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What is ClOD?
Thanks.
Il-2 Cliffs of Dover. Started out as an unplayable buggy mess for many. Now it's all patched up and plays fine. Focuses on BoB though, so you won't see Me-262s and P51s.
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Is it free? :old:
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I started off pretty on the fence about the whole graphics debate, but after seeing some IL2 videos, I think the eye candy adds another whole dimension of immersion and would not mind working towards getting a computer that could handle an Aces High with similar eye candy. I watched a video of someone flying a 109E from France over the Channel and engaging a couple of Spitfires and almost felt like I was there with the waves crashing below and the Cliffs of Dover and the French Countryside. +1 for improved graphics in AH. With such an extensive planeset modeled very accurately and dynamic gameplay, if Aces High got similar graphics, I don't know if I would play another game.
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:rofl Imagined AH looked like that. Half the people would be pooping their pants and the other half will be crying on their 2001 Dells.
call me old fashioned but that did not look much better than AHII. :old:
I dont know how well AHII looks. :old:
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In Defense of CLOD, there is a new patch that's been out for a short while that GREATLY improves the experience. I bought the game just to try out the patch, and I've been beyond impressed with it so far. It's called the "Team Fusion Mod", and Simhq did a 6 page review on it a couple months back, and it's still on their front page. If you're bored and looking for a really impressive single player WW2 game, it has a lot to offer you IMO. Does it replace AH2, absolutely not, but every now and then I want to play a campaign style game or setup some massive intercepts etc, and it's the best thing I've found so far, even though I've been following the new IL2 Stalingrad development closely, as I'll probably switch to that. That said, CLOD being as disappointing as it was on release, is a whole new game with the mod. Read the review and decide yourself. There are lots of Utube vids of the mod in action as well to check out.
edit - If you do try it out, get the Redux Campaign mod for the BoB as well, it's amazing, and really makes the battles much larger and better. I got the game for 5$ on sale on Steam by the way as well, so for 5$, it's an incredible value IMO.
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You can play it online too. Persistent servers with up to a hundred players.
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You can play it online too. Persistent servers with up to a hundred players.
I play on one of the ATAG servers :old:
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Il-2 Sturmovik
http://il2sturmovik.com/ (http://il2sturmovik.com/)
"This new entry into this series will offer virtual pilots and players an even more accurate reproduction of the legendary air battles of World War II. A new, higher level of physics modeling, damage modeling and aerodynamics has been achieved. Battle of Stalingrad will include several famous aircraft that have been recreated from detailed drawings and blueprints and they will fly over the most ambitious and detailed reconstruction ever attempted in a flight-sim of the most critical battle on the Eastern Front."
:cheers:
I was going to give it it's own post and it and forgot
Ty,
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One more reason I thought I would post.
(http://www.simhq.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/DSCN0119-1024x768.jpg)
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She can use my joystick anytime. :bolt:
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She can use my joystick anytime. :bolt:
Don't drop your bombs prematurely :old:
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Those screenshots look beautiful. I really like that they don't have those annoying instagram-esque filters with the stupid vignette and everything all over them. Hopefully that won't get slapped on later.
(http://simhq.com/forum/files/usergals/2013/07/full-11236-62653-il2_sturmovik_13.jpg)
This could be a photograph
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It's Latrobe :O
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That's an interesting way to get around the "no swastikas" thing. Looks a lot better than leaving the surface blank.
Incidentally, I did some reading about that recently and it appears that a couple years ago, video games HAVE been added to the list of media where depiction of the insignia is allowed by German law. I guess game developers are either not caught up on that yet, or are still being cautious.
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I need to work on my sarcasm abit I guess.. For this or that, we pay money here or pay money there.. I don't see a difference..
nop, been paying over 10 years so you can do the math lol. It is just that some guys see everything as an attack to AH and imedietly run to defend it. Some still waiting for the invite to xmash party lol.
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That's an interesting way to get around the "no swastikas" thing. Looks a lot better than leaving the surface blank.
Incidentally, I did some reading about that recently and it appears that a couple years ago, video games HAVE been added to the list of media where depiction of the insignia is allowed by German law. I guess game developers are either not caught up on that yet, or are still being cautious.
How about French law?
I believe the issue was both Germany and France.
I know it is not an issue in the US, UK or Canada.
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Incidentally, I did some reading about that recently and it appears that a couple years ago, video games HAVE been added to the list of media where depiction of the insignia is allowed by German law. I guess game developers are either not caught up on that yet, or are still being cautious.
No changes had been made to §§86 and §§86 StGB. The exceptions are still only
" shall not be applicable if the means of propaganda or the act serves to further civil enlightenment, to avert unconstitutional aims, to promote art or science, research or teaching, reporting about current historical events or similar purposes."
Computer games like Il-2 do not run under 'arts' or 'teaching' in this context.
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nop, been paying over 10 years so you can do the math lol. It is just that some guys see everything as an attack to AH and imedietly run to defend it. Some still waiting for the invite to xmash party lol.
hehe
Maybe we older subscribers (10years or more) should get our own set of skins or even a special plane...
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Those screenshots look beautiful. I really like that they don't have those annoying instagram-esque filters with the stupid vignette and everything all over them. Hopefully that won't get slapped on later.
(http://simhq.com/forum/files/usergals/2013/07/full-11236-62653-il2_sturmovik_13.jpg)
This could
be a photograph
Yes Wings of Prey with stupid opaque glass and haze :)
Forget that you cant have Narzzie things un games.
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hehe
Maybe we older subscribers (10years or more) should get our own set of skins or even a special plane...
preferably made of kevlar :old:
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hehe
Maybe we older subscribers (10years or more) should get our own set of skins or even a special plane...
Once a month we can up a claw for one sortie :devil
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The flims in the OP 1st post are awesum click the play button and it cycles threw about 6-7 films one is the sound test, it's awesum, opening and closing the canopy and the fight in the first film where it is slowed as the 2 fighters pass...... :x
Now if we can just get them to make it a MMO. I'll be like the Gieco Camel on Hump Day... YEEAAAAA!
:cheers:
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I decided to give Cliffs of Dover a go. My initial thoughts:
1) Ooooh, pretty! :eek:
2) Aircraft seem incredibly bouncy, making them very unstable as gun platforms. Il-2 had the exact same problem, so it has something to do with the flight/environment modeling. :airplane:
3) I was going crazy figuring out why my gunsight kept disappearing on me as I was maneuvering. Then I discovered, oops, I didn't turn on sight illumination. :bhead
4) Love, love, LOVE the ability to customize your ammo belts, and being able to mix ball, incendiaries and AP. :rock
4a) In fact, the sheer amount of customization you can apply to your plane visually (tail number, S/N, etc) is just awesome. :x
5) I also love how you can set it to simulate the fact that you're flying planes that don't have HOTAS controls. :joystick:
6) My Aces High TrackIR profile is REALLY sensitive in Cliffs of Dover. :rolleyes:
7) Holy CRAP that's a lot of subsystem controls. :O
8) I give up on flying 1v1 quick mission duels. The AI pilots are just as bad about running away as P-51 and La-7 pilots in the Mains. :furious
9) Engine temperature effects OFF. No, I do NOT want to deal with your overly enthusiastic engine overheats. :mad:
10) Dammit, where the heck did I map my fuel mixture controls?! :headscratch:
11) Those Bf-110 backseat gunners have frelling laser sights. :bolt:
12) And I thought the sun in Aces High was bright. :cool:
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Yea...the AI in CloD is pretty dumb...maybe it's the Team Fusion Mod I installed (which is supposed to be make it better), but once you saddle on the AI (which isn't that hard to do in the first place), they pretty much wait for you to kill them. The only problem in combat is running out of ammo. Haven't tried multiplayer yet but I have a feeling I'll stall and auger first before doing anything special. Anyone else notice that CloD's planes seems extremely slow compared to AH? The 110C is probably the biggest difference compared to AH. That thing flies like an A20 with full bomb load.
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Come online :joystick:
Engine overheating is not really a big problem. Depending what plane you fly. Yes you need to keep an eye on the water temperature, but just map a button for opening/closing the radiator.
The only AI on the server I play on is the bomberformations.
I also had to make a new TIR profile for CloD, the AH one just sucks in CloD.
In the next patch (sometime in August) they will fix some issues with planes disappearing at certain distances , and the 110C7 will actually become a C7. They are also working on cloud and other issues.
I don't think the planes are slower. Load up the BoB map in AH. It takes the same time to fly over the channel.
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Have any of you guys tried the early access version of BOS?
I'm very impressed with it so far, ground handling is a challenge, as are the crosswind takeoffs and landings.
http://youtu.be/1czxLTLK9Oc
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It looks nice Sid but if upping a plane is stupid as Warthunder it will be a shame :old:
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Very nice! :aok
What kind of controller setup are you using there Sid?
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If 777 is doing it, I have high hopes for it.
I am a big fan of Rise of Flight.
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Does anyone know if you buy it now can you play it? or just watch?
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From the comments, AH players won't like Il-2BOS.
http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/2113-first-impressions/
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From the comments, AH players won't like Il-2BOS.
http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/2113-first-impressions/
Why is that? If they do as good of a job on this game as they did on RoF, I'll be playing it.
ack-ack
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From the comments, AH players won't like Il-2BOS.
http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/2113-first-impressions/
Could you be more specific. I saw mostly praise for the alpha build on that forum.
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I am just going on the comments that have been posted here on the other Il-2 games.
Compared to Il-2BOS AH is an arcade game.
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I hope they don't use the same AI as ROF, because I'm about fed up with the radar-assisted aiming. EVERY time I get shot at it's a $&@%ing headshot. :furious
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AH and ROF are the benchmarks, not because of the flight models, because you can log on and fly a plane :old:
Its a cultural problem the Russians dont know a thing about customer relations.
We have a lot of Eastern Europeans in the UK :old:
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A short user-made movie of the early access version of Il-2:BOS: http://youtu.be/vpqtoE6XMZk (http://youtu.be/vpqtoE6XMZk)
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A short user-made movie of the early access version of Il-2:BOS: http://youtu.be/vpqtoE6XMZk (http://youtu.be/vpqtoE6XMZk)
Pretty.
But for a number of reasons it has no draw for me.
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Pretty.
Very.
I wish that HTC would do some work on the sky/sun. They could make the game much less cartoony simply by improving those elements.
And would love some winter maps, or maps that have winter areas.
I will probably check out this game when it releases. I like RoF, so I am willing to take a look at this one.
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Pretty.
But for a number of reasons it has no draw for me.
Russian Front?
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With RoF team behind it. I immediately bought the premium edition with all the planes... on the spot. And when I started her up. Frame rates were smooth, flight model perfection and just the right amount of difficulty to both experience the sim aspect and the flight "game" aspect.
When this is complete it will be the best flight simulator on the market today. Aces High excepting of course. But even then not by much
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Beautiful eye candy for sure.
Real human enemies or AI?
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Russian Front?
An unbalanced time period at that. I don't generally like flying for the Germans, but I also don't fancy trying to use a LaGG-3 or Yak-7 against Bf109G-2s and F-4s. Sounds like....suicide.
The other reasons are that I don't like their business model, if it is going RoF's model, and that my current computer cannot handle those kinds of graphics. While the computer problem can be remedied the business model one cannot.
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An unbalanced time period at that. I don't generally like flying for the Germans, but I also don't fancy trying to use a LaGG-3 or Yak-7 against Bf109G-2s and F-4s. Sounds like....suicide.
The other reasons are that I don't like their business model, if it is going RoF's model, and that my current computer cannot handle those kinds of graphics. While the computer problem can be remedied the business model one cannot.
Yeah, I don't care for RoF's model. I went ahead and bought the premium version, but I haven't bought one additional aircraft. If you're already charging $60 for the game, how many copies do you really need to sell to cover all the development costs?
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Beautiful eye candy for sure.
Real human enemies or AI?
Their forum states eventually there will be 100 player servers. 100 players are plenty. ROF is a good enough game that I will keep an open mind to this. Theres a thread in their forum that suggests the BOS will not be as pure sim as COD was/is. Which is fine by me as I dont want to sit there and play with start up procedures for 10 mins. http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/146-what-we-know-so-far-battle-stalingrad/
I wont buy it until actual release and feed back. But the BOS is of significant interest for a great flight game. We'll see. 777 is the only thing giving this bunch legitimacy.
At least some good news on the genre front.
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+1
See Reaper is British and is talking sense :old:
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+1
See Reaper is British and is talking sense :old:
Yes, clearly British! Only visiting the US of A since the early 1800's! :old:
:)
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Your very old :)
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My very old what?!?!?
I have magic pills! :old:
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Russian Front?
TBH, I'm disinterested in ANY European Theater sim. Because that's pretty much all ANYONE makes. The Pacific Fighters expansion for Il-2 was just an afterthought (no really. On a forum thread I was participating in, Oleg outright SAID they didn't give a crap about the PTO, which is why it was such a half-assed POS, and why they were so concerned about adding drawing board-only German and Russian superplanes than good flight models for the PTO aircraft. Or, y'know, late-war American aircraft like the F4U-4).
How many times can you make the latest, greatest, high-fidelity flight sim centered around Luftwaffe vs. the World before they all start to blur together?
The last GOOD dedicated PTO sim was 1942: Pacific Air War (technically PF WAS a standalone sim, too, but it's only real value is to have it as part of the combined Il-2 package).
Frankly, I'm burned out. Regardless of their business model, I'll pass until someone decides to make a worthy successor to Aces of the Pacific.
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Russian Front?
For me that is the least interesting front of WWII.
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A good Pacific/CBI theater sim would be nice.
Americans, Brits, Aussies, Kiwis, Indians, Russians and Chinese vs Japanese.
So, the world vs the Imperial Japanese Navy and Imperial Japanese Army instead of the world vs the Luftwaffe. :p
I am always torn about whether a sim should let other outcomes be possible. Should the player, if they choose the Japanese side, just participate in a doomed venture and try to survive, or should the sim base Japanese performance on the player's performance to a degree and allow the Japanese to stretch the war out or even win? What is more engaging?
Changing history also starts to entail "what if" aircraft like the A7M, J7W and G8N making it into service.
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Depends on if there is a strategic part to the sim, like in the classic Battle of Britain game. If it's just a flight sim, then there is no way that a single pilot could turn the tide of war; even if Germany had many more 100+ Experten they would still have lost the war.
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Depends on if there is a strategic part to the sim, like in the classic Battle of Britain game. If it's just a flight sim, then there is no way that a single pilot could turn the tide of war; even if Germany had many more 100+ Experten they would still have lost the war.
The way to do it for a single pilot sim is to base the overall performance of the player's side on how the player does. If the player flies phenomenally or hits with his torpedo/bomb and survives then the game extrapolates that all of the Japanese (if playing Japanese), in the air and on the surface, perform better possibly changing historical outcomes.
If there is a strategic aspect of the game then that sort of extrapolation can be done away with. A strategic component also makes determining if things like the A7M make it into service or not easier by giving the player the choices that the Japanese had that delayed it to late 1945, or could have had it in service in 1944 if another choice were made.
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I am always torn about whether a sim should let other outcomes be possible. Should the player, if they choose the Japanese side, just participate in a doomed venture and try to survive, or should the sim base Japanese performance on the player's performance to a degree and allow the Japanese to stretch the war out or even win? What is more engaging?.
I'd very much prefer sticking to the general outcome. You, as a fighter pilot are just a tiny piece of the overall effort and you will try to 'win' your own battles (which at some point may just mean staying alive to fight another day) and you will get fancy medals and rise up the ranks... but in the end, it's never enough to "change the world". That would be far more immersing to me.
Back in Lucasgame's BoB I singlehandedly won the Battle of Britain in my Stuka... :uhoh
I really liked the dynamic mission generation in the old Red Baron, and I extremely despised the scripted missions campaign of the original Il-2 Sturmovik. I remember one time doing a defense of Stalingrad. He 111's escorted by a crapload of 109s. I manage to shoot down 3 or 4 bombers before getting mauled, yet still nursing my barely flying wreck back home. Result: No medals, no "well done", not even another day... "mission failed" and I had to fly it again :bhead
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Lusche, there's a "in Soviet Russia" joke in there somewhere. ;)
Luckily there were 3rd party dynamic campaign generators for Il-2. I agree, the original campaigns were crap.
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Lusche, there's a "in Soviet Russia" joke in there somewhere. ;)
I know :D
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In Soviet Russia, you don't fly the mission, the mission flies you! :bolt:
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The way to do it for a single pilot sim is to base the overall performance of the player's side on how the player does. If the player flies phenomenally or hits with his torpedo/bomb and survives then the game extrapolates that all of the Japanese (if playing Japanese), in the air and on the surface, perform better possibly changing historical outcomes.
If there is a strategic aspect of the game then that sort of extrapolation can be done away with. A strategic component also makes determining if things like the A7M make it into service or not easier by giving the player the choices that the Japanese had that delayed it to late 1945, or could have had it in service in 1944 if another choice were made.
1942 had a strategic mode of sorts, though it was restricted entirely to specific battles (Coral Sea, Midway and Phillippine Sea, IIRC). But you could still pull out a completely different outcome if you managed your assets properly.
In a strict sim I don't see that working particularly well. As noted, individual pilots are just one cog in the machine. The furthest extent to which I'd take it is a dynamic campaign where your performance directly impacts your squadron. IE, if you're always getting shot down or losing planes, and your squadron is always getting shot to pieces around you, you might eventually run out of machines and pilots. European Air War took this approach, where your squadron could eventually be so badly torn up it's no longer able to function as an effective fighting force.
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One year later - this is 39% Alpha.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8rfLoMfHao&feature=youtu.be
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Amazing!
The vibration and slight head movement. The dynamic sounds where you can hear the changes in airflow as speed and angle of attack changes. The lighting is fantastic, also with the scratches in the canopy glass. Everything about that video can be described with one word: Immersion.
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Amazing!
The vibration and slight head movement. The dynamic sounds where you can hear the changes in airflow as speed and angle of attack changes. The lighting is fantastic, also with the scratches in the canopy glass. Everything about that video can be described with one word: Immersion.
The question is, will the flight modeling hold up this time?
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The scripted radio messages and the text on the screen instantly put me off when I tried IL2 for the first time and still does. Online play was just pathetic, like a gimped down version of the old AH h2h.
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(http://i.imgur.com/ggnjo2Q.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/M2xqEGZ.jpg)
45% and looking impressive.
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Looks pretty, but still waiting for a good stand-alone PTO sim (I hate how half-assed Pacific Fighters was if you didn't have the full Il-2 pack).
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50% complete. Next version is moving into Beta stage.
(http://i.imgur.com/oQHiG9L.jpg)
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I love Rise of Flight, the multiplayer arena isn't bad actually, As for the pay for aircraft I only have about 15 in the World War 1 sim, mostly German but the obvious S.E.5.a and Newport 17.
I seen some dogfighting videos of the Stalingrad series, the AI is much improved however I just wonder about the flight dynamics, IL-2 was decent but the AI was crap.