Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Randy1 on July 31, 2013, 05:08:26 PM
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Was there any plans to change the gun package on the P38 during initial design or any later variants like f4u1c experiment? Something like 3 Hispanos in the nose without the fifties.
I assume the final design was what they could stuff in the nose and CG of the plane.
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There were a few rough field-modifications but from what I recall they were to remove the cannon and put more 50cals in (6-pack nose, etc).
The Hispano in US service wasn't much liked. Due to manitenance and other issues, it tended to jam a lot. That may be the reason that most planes that had them also still had 50cals (even the rare F6Fs that had 20mm still carried 4x50cal with them). The F4U-1C may have had 4 of them simply to hedge bets against jamming. It was more of a ground attack design. That is, if I recall properly
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At least according to the pilot account in Aces Against Japan, the main problem the Hispano faced on the F4U-1C was bad deicers which prevented the guns from working properly at altitude. Otherwise the 1C pilots seemed to find the guns to be a solid weapons system.
Been a while since I've read that book, though.
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If I remember correctly the 38 was supposed to have a 37mm gun as it was desighned as a bomber intercepted.
The cannon proved rather unsatisfactory and they switched to more reliable and tested weapon systems.
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Sax: I've read that, too. Also a problem on Spitfires, as well. That's why spitfires only mounted hispanos on the inboard position, closer to the heater to keep the guns warm.
Keep in mind that F4U-1Cs were very late to the game. The design (IMO) was made a 4-gun configuration to hedge bets against jamming guns, but by the time they actually got out to service (only 1 or 2 units, if I recall) most of the maintenance problems had been sorted, out, and the proper lubricant was being used on shells and so forth. I imagine that late in the game they worked well. It took a while to get there, though. That stigma of being unreliable stuck with the US forces for some time.
Zach: The 37mm was intended as a design point for the P-38D, but if I recall none of the cannon were ever built (or some such) so the plane changed its design to carry a 20mm.
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I did run across this a few minutes ago.
Armament on the YPs was altered by replacement of two of the .50s with .30s, and the 20 mm cannon gave way to a 37 mm. But even before the YP-38s were completed, the original machine gun arrangement was standardized for production types. The first production order was 35 P-38Ds, followed by 210 P-3XEs which reverted back to the 20 mm cannon. These planes began to arrive in October 1941 just before America entered World War II. With the P-38D came self sealing fuel tanks and armor protection for the pilot.
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That was it.
One thing I find facsinating in 1930 American aircraft designs was the idea of "can we put the 37mm cannon on it?"
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Krusty point is a good one. Putting all your eggs in one basket.
Zacherof I wonder if the 37MM had a slow firing rate?
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Krusty point is a good one. Putting all your eggs in one basket.
Zacherof I wonder if the 37MM had a slow firing rate?
It was to be the same 37mm Oldsmobile cannon that was on the P-39, which was a POS of a cannon.
ack-ack
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It was to be the same 37mm Oldsmobile cannon that was on the P-39, which was a POS of a cannon.
ack-ack
What he said :aok
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Randy,
Check out the XP49,it's debatable if it's an evolution of the 38 or not but it shares many common traits.One difference is the extra 20mm cannon to go with those 4 50cals!
:salute
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Randy,
Check out the XP49,it's debatable if it's an evolution of the 38 or not but it shares many common traits.One difference is the extra 20mm cannon to go with those 4 50cals!
:salute
I thought it was meant to replace the 38.....
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on Spitfires, as well. That's why spitfires only mounted hispanos on the inboard position, closer to the heater to keep the guns warm.
The cannons could be mounted in either position.
(http://www.dudes411.com/planesSpitfire.jpg)
(http://www.airplane-pictures.net/images/uploaded-images/2009-4/15/42553.jpg)
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I thought it was meant to replace the 38.....
As I said thats debatable,the engines never worked properly and I'm pretty sure they built 1 prototypr and scrapped the program.
:salute
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As I said thats debatable,the engines never worked properly and I'm pretty sure they built 1 prototypr and scrapped the program.
:salute
I refreshed my memory on the aircraft.
:salute
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Was there any plans to change the gun package on the P38 during initial design or any later variants like f4u1c experiment? Something like 3 Hispanos in the nose without the fifties.
I assume the final design was what they could stuff in the nose and CG of the plane.
I remember reading one design that was considered was four 20mm. But clustering the four 50's and single 20mm in the nose turned out to give it plenty of firepower.
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Randy,
Check out the XP49,it's debatable if it's an evolution of the 38 or not but it shares many common traits.One difference is the extra 20mm cannon to go with those 4 50cals!
:salute
Got some really good replies on the cannons in the 38. I thank you all for the information. I learned a great deal from the thread.
Wow and 24 cylinders to boot. Looking up the engine gave me the impression, engine design problems stopped the advancement of the XP49.