Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: earl1937 on August 02, 2013, 03:14:40 PM
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:airplane: One of the aircraft which did not see service in WW2, but had an affect on designs of other aircraft during the war was the B-36 "Peace Maker". Designed by engineers in California, then production, because of larger production facility, was moved to Forth Worth, Tex. This move alone caused an addition 20 months before the aircraft was ready for service. This was the first aircraft which used titanium metal extensively though out the various sections of the aircraft.
The titanium "overcast" as it was sometimes called begin design life in 1942, as some people in Washington thought England was going to fall to the Germans and the U.S. needed a long range bomber, capable of carrying up to 10,000 lbs of bombs from Bases as much as 4,000 miles away. This beast had a 10,000 mile ferry distance and normal crew of 16. The crew had sleep bunkers, elect stove in rear compartment as well as a re fridgetor. It had wings which were 7 foot, 4 inches thick at the wing root and a crawway for mechanics to climb out and service engines 2,3,4 and 5.
It had a total of 10 engines, 6 P&W R-4360 radial engines and 4, J-47 General Electric jet engines. The jet engines were used on takeoffs and high altitude flight. The R-4360 was the largest internal combustion engines ever built for aircraft and had 28 cylinders each, arranged in a 7 cylinder around and 4 banks deep. The aircraft had many development problems, one of which was engine cooling for the rear bank of cylinders and during testing, a number of engine fires plagued the aircraft.
The normal cruise speed was 236MPH and the service ceiling published was 41,000 feet, but later RB models which had no guns and a crew of only 8, was rumored to fly as high as 60,000 feet.
One of the "odd" equipment features of the aircraft was a 66 foot long tunnel, which connected the forward and rear compartments together and was pressurized. The crew men would lay on their back on a "mechanics crawler" and pulled themselves with an over head cable system.
The aircraft never saw actual combat, but was on "station" for several years along the USSR borders as RB aircraft during the cold war years and has been credited with be a thorn in the sides of the USSR air defense command.
(http://i1346.photobucket.com/albums/p684/earl1937/B-36sideview_zps88068a81.jpg)
Guys, many thanks to "Ink" for getting me correct on posting pic's from photo bucket, at least I posted you a pic of this beautiful aircraft!
One of Jimmie Stewarts great movies featured this B-36 and was call Strategic Air Command, which also starred June Allison and Frank Lovejoy! If you get a chance to see it, it is well worth your time.
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cool info ...but no pic :aok
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cool info ...but no pic
There are some here:
http://www.spyflight.co.uk/rb36.htm
B-36 has always been one of my favorites. Watch Jimmy Stewart's "Strategic Air Command" film to see them fly. IMHO the 36 was the ultimate expression of American air power. Whenever people start to talk about "what if" scenarios involving Nazi wonder weapons, I like to add in the 36 as the American "what if." ESPECIALLY with the F-85 loadout: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_PmFbgtCwY
- oldman
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One of the "odd" equipment features of the aircraft was a 66 foot long tunnel, which connected the forward and rear compartments together and was pressurized. The crew men whould lay on their back on a "mechinics crawler" and pulled themselves with an over head cable system.
Didn't the B-29 use the same system?
Sorry Guys was going to include some pic's, but I am doing something wrong I guess!
As for the images not showing up, it looks like you got the formatting and URL wrong.
ack-ack
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Didn't the B-29 use the same system?
As for the images not showing up, it looks like you got the formatting and URL wrong.
ack-ack
:airplane: The B-29C had a "crawl over" tunnel over the bomb bays and it, to was pressurized! I think the pic's I was trying to use was to big a file! I use photo bucket, but not sure what happened this time.
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What is the green grey aircraft just past the B36 with the huge belly tank or Radom and semi gull wing?
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You can see a Peacemaker at the USAF Museum in Dayton, Ohio. The USAF Museum is amazing. To give you some idea, the Peacemaker is inside a hangar but takes up only about 1/4 of the space; and the museum has four more hangar areas that big plus outdoor exhibits.
Virtual tour here:
http://www.nmusafvirtualtour.com/full/tour-std.html
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What is the green grey aircraft just past the B36 with the huge belly tank or Radom and semi gull wing?
Looks like some weird version of a T-28.
- oldman
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What is the green grey aircraft just past the B36 with the huge belly tank or Radom and semi gull wing?
Royal Navy Fairy Gannet. About as ugly an airplane as there ever has been :)
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Always found the gobblin interesting as it had so many little flight control surfaces :rofl
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What is the green grey aircraft just past the B36 with the huge belly tank or Radom and semi gull wing?
:airplane: I think Guppy is correct and I also see 3 Boeing 707's, or KC-135's, a Boeing B-47, (I would guess the most beautiful jet bomber ever made), a Doulas AE-1 and I am not sure where this pic was taken. Maybe a military air show in the late 50's or early 60's. Just a guess, by the type of aircraft you can see in this pic.
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I believe the picture is from the Pima Air Museum.
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You can see a Peacemaker at the USAF Museum in Dayton, Ohio. The USAF Museum is amazing. To give you some idea, the Peacemaker is inside a hangar but takes up only about 1/4 of the space; and the museum has four more hangar areas that big plus outdoor exhibits.
Virtual tour here:
http://www.nmusafvirtualtour.com/full/tour-std.html
:airplane: Excellent, outstanding video! BTW, triva for you: Over the B-66 hangs a small single engine aircraft in USAF markings! What is it?
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I saw that B36 in the USAF museum some years ago. I walked through a door and it took a moment for my eyes to adjust. In front of me was this wall that looked silver. I turned left to go down what I perceived as "corridor" and happened to look up. I noticed hanging on the wall was a big propeller. I then noticed the prop wasn't hanging on the wall but connected to some metal that turned into a wing. It took a minute before I could realize that it was a whole aeroplane sitting there. Huge. For me it made seeing the B52 anticlimatic.
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(http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/photos/9/0/7/1161709.jpg)
This might be a different view.
What is the a/c behind the Gannet.
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That virtual tour of the museum is pretty neat!
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I believe the picture is from the Pima Air Museum.
It is.
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Royal Navy Fairy Gannet. About as ugly an airplane as there ever has been :)
A plane only a mother could love! :old:
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A plane only a mother could love! :old:
:airplane: I would put the C-123 in that category also!!
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:airplane: I would put the C-123 in that category also!!
I think you mean the C-23 Sherpa :P
(https://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/c-23b-px-0045.jpg)
They still drop the drunks at Elmendorf AFB :D
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I think you mean the C-23 Sherpa :P
(https://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/c-23b-px-0045.jpg)
They still drop the drunks at Elmendorf AFB :D
those are some fluid lines :O
it's almost like a designer asked a 5 year old o draw a plane and presto!
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I think you mean the C-23 Sherpa :P
(https://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/c-23b-px-0045.jpg)
They still drop the drunks at Elmendorf AFB :D
:airplane: Naw, this is C-123: (http://i1346.photobucket.com/albums/p684/earl1937/C-123_zps09e257f9.jpg)
Did you see "Air America"? Featured one of these beasts, was used quite a bit in Vietnam because of short field takeoff and landing, plus good cargo load!
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:airplane: Naw, this is C-123: (http://i1346.photobucket.com/albums/p684/earl1937/C-123_zps09e257f9.jpg)
Did you see "Air America"? Featured one of these beasts, was used quite a bit in Vietnam because of short field takeoff and landing, plus good cargo load!
I think the C-123 is sexy! A little curvy, sure, but aint nothin' wrong with them curves! She fiiine! :D
I never saw Air America. I'll have to find it!
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There is a great and interesting book about flying C-123's in Vietnam as part of 606th Special Operations.
"Flying Through Midnight", by Halliday. I think that folks would like the stories in it very much.
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There is a great and interesting book about flying C-123's in Vietnam as part of 606th Special Operations.
"Flying Through Midnight", by Halliday. I think that folks would like the stories in it very much.
:airplane: An interesting side note to the C-123! in 1965, a notice was placed on all the bulletin boards around the Southeast which read: If you want to fly heavy multi-engine aircraft, report to the Air Host Inn at Atlanta airport at 2PM. Most all us young guys showed up, who were multi-engine qualified, thinking it was that magic airline job! Out walked a little guy, could not have been over 5'5" tall, sporting a little thin mustache, a London Fog overcoat and the first thing out of his mouth was: If you have any reservations about getting shot at every now and then, you better get up and leave as this job will entail some of that!! About 1/2 the room got up and left. This guy was hiring Air America pilots to fly C-123's and C-7's in southeast Asia! (Vietnam). One of the guys who stayed, Chris Walker, was flying C-123's and one day he thought he did not need his flak jacket to sit on and he was shot in the butt by someone and had to return to the states. After a 6 month recovery period, he returned to which ever country he was flying in over there, never would say which one, I always suspected Laos, but just a guess. He later was killed in a DC-7B accident in South America. Sad story, but true, he was married to my first cousin! I still communicate with his daughter every now and then.
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(http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/photos/9/0/7/1161709.jpg)
This might be a different view.
What is the a/c behind the Gannet.
:airplane: After giving this pic much thought and viewing, I think what you see behind the "Green Monster" as it was sometimes called, sat a C-141, built by Lockheed Georgia plant at Marietta, Georgia. If you will look at the rudder, you will see that it looks like it was displaced to the right, if viewed from behind, but in reality, it was an early model 141, which used a split rudder for speed brakes, which I think on the latest models, that feature was discontinued.
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(http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/photos/9/0/7/1161709.jpg)
This might be a different view.
What is the a/c behind the Gannet.
Looks like a C-141.....
(Edit: Looks like Earl already pointed this out... I caught a few flights on MAC C-141s back in the 70s.)
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Thanks for posting. My uncle flew these back in the day and stood ready to launch heavy with nukes if ever needed. He told me stories of this beast:)
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Thanks for posting. My uncle flew these back in the day and stood ready to launch heavy with nukes if ever needed. He told me stories of this beast:)
:airplane: Get him to tell you about the stories concerning the G-32, radar operated gun in the tail and the practice intercept by the different Air National guard outfits around, especially the stories concerning the Lockheed F-104C starfighters...some of those stories related to me have wild to say the least.
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:airplane: Get him to tell you about the stories concerning the G-32, radar operated gun in the tail and the practice intercept by the different Air National guard outfits around, especially the stories concerning the Lockheed F-104C starfighters...some of those stories related to me have wild to say the least.
Time to tell them, Earl!
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Time to tell them, Earl!
:airplane: About all I know are stories related to me by Capt Jim Knox, a 1st officer on a RB-36C, which could fly as high as 55,000 feet! The Air National Guard gys from Texas would do practice intercept over the gulf of Mexico. They would get behind about 50 or 60 miles or so, go supersonic, zoom up and get a gun camera shot on the way up, his engine would flame about 50K, then the RB-36 would turn one way or the other and the trick for the 104 pilot was to get a gun camera shot on the way back down. I wasn't there, but I can just guess the wild ride by the 104 guys trying to maneuver to get that shot on the way back down. Must of been a lot of fun. The G-32 came into play as they tracked the 104 on his first pass, timing a turn to try to avoid the camera shot.
The ANG gys flying F-84F's and F-100's couldn't get anywhere close to the 36, but I was told they tried all the time. Of course, in real time in combat, the Mig 21's and 23's, with air to air rockets would have made mince meat out the 36! While the B-36 was a dangerous weapon as far as Russia was concerned, I have often wondered how many would have actually got to their assignment if actual war had broke out between us.
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:airplane: Get him to tell you about the stories concerning the G-32, radar operated gun in the tail and the practice intercept by the different Air National guard outfits around, especially the stories concerning the Lockheed F-104C starfighters...some of those stories related to me have wild to say the least.
Sadly, he died at an early age succumbing to diabetes. He had already lost his leg.
I would love to have chatted with him about this.
<S>
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:airplane: Get him to tell you about the stories concerning the G-32, radar operated gun in the tail and the practice intercept by the different Air National guard outfits around, especially the stories concerning the Lockheed F-104C starfighters...some of those stories related to me have wild to say the least.
One of my great memories is having watched Starfighters fly while in Turkish service. I always thought them elegant, beautiful rocket ships. They were fast as all get out and just looked beautiful in the air. http://www.pacificaviationmuseum.org/pearl-harbor-blog/lockheed-f-104-starfighter
Ive never seen a B-36. I'd like to know where any are displayed, should I get there at any time. Before I die I'd love to take a road trip to the great air museums in the country.
The B-36 was/is very symbolic in USAF because the adaptation of it and its service marked the elevation of the then fledgeling USAF into the primary strategic tip of the spear. The USN and USAF fought like cats and dogs over who should be assigned the role of primary nuclear deterrence. The USN had its P2V Neptune from its CVs able to launch strategic weapons and it wanted the new services deterrence role axed. The USAF, SAC, and the B-36 won out and the rest is History.
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Howdy, Rich.
The Wikipedia article says where B-36's are on display:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convair_B-36
For great air museums, my two favorites have been:
#1: US Air Force Museum in Dayton, OH (a B-36 is there).
#2: Udvar-Hazy Museum (used to be the annex to the Smithsonian Air and Space Museum) near Dulles airport in the Washington DC area.
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TY. I'd love to see one.
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TY. I'd love to see one.
:airplane: Rich, here is a video clip from the movie "SAC", starring Jimmy Stewart and June Allison and Frank Lovejoy! If you ever get to see the movie, I strongly recommend it!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruE8yhkHke8
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:airplane: Rich, here is a video clip from the movie "SAC", starring Jimmy Stewart and June Allison and Frank Lovejoy! If you ever get to see the movie, I strongly recommend it!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruE8yhkHke8
Excellent clip. Thanks for the link. <S>
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:airplane: Rich, here is a video clip from the movie "SAC", starring Jimmy Stewart and June Allison and Frank Lovejoy! If you ever get to see the movie, I strongly recommend it!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruE8yhkHke8
Jimmy Stewart - or should we say Maj.General Stewart. I don't know if he ever flew the Peacemaker but he did fly in the B-52 (non-duty) to Vietnam in the 60's a couple of times.
:salute
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"Peacemaker"? Why not "Love Machine" :rofl
-C+
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:airplane: Rich, here is a video clip from the movie "SAC", starring Jimmy Stewart and June Allison and Frank Lovejoy! If you ever get to see the movie, I strongly recommend it!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruE8yhkHke8
The flight engineer sounds like the Col from MASH.
If the number on the fuselage is real, the a/c is a B-36H-35-CF. The B-36H-equipped 42nd Wing at Loring AFB, Maine, began to convert to B-52s in June of 1956.
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The flight engineer sounds like the Col from MASH.
If the number on the fuselage is real, the a/c is a B-36H-35-CF. The B-36H-equipped 42nd Wing at Loring AFB, Maine, began to convert to B-52s in June of 1956.
:airplane: You sir are correct on both counts! The flight engineer was indeed the Colonel on Mash and the B-36 in question, was, when the movie was made in 1955, stationed at Carswell AFB, Fort Worth, Tex and when the base started converting to B-52's, the whole wing was moved to Peace AFB in New Hampshere, later to transfere to Loring AFB, and I think they were converted to RB models, which could cruise at 55,000. When they were stripped of all guns, except G-32 in tail and other equipment, the overall weight when down by 9,000 lbs or something like that.
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You'll like this video...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oSG1TmbAB0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oSG1TmbAB0)
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You'll like this video...
I did like that video, thank you WW.
I heard, on a very-much-rumor basis, that we were flying B-36s over the USSR during the mid-1950s, confident that they couldn't be intercepted. If true (who knows?) it would help to explain a relatively quiet period in superpower relations.
- oldman
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What an awesome plane!
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Something like a HS125 or BA111.
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I heard, on a very-much-rumor basis, that we were flying B-36s over the USSR during the mid-1950s, confident that they couldn't be intercepted. If true (who knows?) it would help to explain a relatively quiet period in superpower relations.
- oldman
The MiG17 was certainly capable of intercepting the B-36 with a speed advantage of 500mph over the B-36's cruise speed and at least 10,000ft ceiling advantage.
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(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5c/B-36aarrivalcarswell1948.jpg)
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(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5c/B-36aarrivalcarswell1948.jpg)
Holey Mackeral, the size difference :O
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and for further comparison:
(http://images.forum-auto.com/mesimages/48474/b52.jpg)
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You can't tell from the perspective, but the B-36 has a much longer wingspan than the B-52 (230 ft vs. 185 ft). The B-36 has a longer wingspan than a 747.
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And the B-36 gear arrangement didn't require wing tip wheels.
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B-47s are sexy
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B-47s are sexy
Agreed.
- oldman
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I never saw a B-47 yet either. I simply have to make that trip to that museum in Ohio.
I was stationed at a base once that had a burned out hulk of a B-58 Hustler that the fire guys used to practice on. It was beautiful even in that state.
When I was over seas, back when Iran blew up in '79, I saw a weird looking air craft on the flight line that I actually had to ask the maintenance guys what it was. It was one of the last B-57 Canberras we still had operational in USAF. It was set up for reconnaissance or EW, I dont know which. But there is was sitting for a few days and then I never saw it again. An interesting Doc on the plane http://youtu.be/LAoA70dSsMk .
Its my understanding they played a large role in the Indo/Paki conflicts.
(http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr149/Rich46yo/B571_zpsd056e447.jpg)
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"That museum in Ohio" is well worth the pilgrimage! When I was going to college, I made lots of cross-country drives between St. Louis and my parent's house in New Jersey. Whenever possible, I timed my arrival in the Akron area to coincide with the museum's hours. Such an amazing collection! I remember very well the feeling of awe as I peered up at the gigantic B-36.
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B-47s are sexy
yes
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/81/Boeing_B-47B_rocket-assisted_take_off_on_April_15%2C_1954_061024-F-1234S-011.jpg)
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Get a free copy of the B-36H pilot's handbook from Scribd.com
You'll have to register. However, you can download free copies of many manuals and books... If you haven't registered at Scribd, do so.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/70709709/1954-T-O-1B-36H-III-1-Flight-Handbook-USAF-Series-B-36H-III-Aircraft-Pt-1 (http://www.scribd.com/doc/70709709/1954-T-O-1B-36H-III-1-Flight-Handbook-USAF-Series-B-36H-III-Aircraft-Pt-1)
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The MiG17 was certainly capable of intercepting the B-36 with a speed advantage of 500mph over the B-36's cruise speed and at least 10,000ft ceiling advantage.
:airplane: Not sure where you got your info, but the MIG-17 had a service ceiling of around 38,000 feet! The RB-36's, which ventured into MIG country normally cruised around 55,000 feet. After the famous U-2 shoot down over Russia, the 36's were never again flown within range of the ground to air missiles.
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Holey Mackeral, the size difference :O
:airplane: And the production models were about 9 feet longer than the test ship shown in the pic you commented on! When they added the "Bubble" cockpit area and the tail gun housing on production models, it was 9 feet longer!
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:airplane: Not sure where you got your info, but the MIG-17 had a service ceiling of around 38,000 feet! The RB-36's, which ventured into MIG country normally cruised around 55,000 feet. After the famous U-2 shoot down over Russia, the 36's were never again flown within range of the ground to air missiles.
Sure earl. :x That 38,000' is ~14,000' less what the MiG-15bis could do and ~10,000' less than the F-86E could do.
Only the featherlight RB-36-III could get over 50,000' and not for continuous cruise.
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Sure earl. :x That 38,000' is ~14,000' less what the MiG-15bis could do and ~10,000' less than the F-86E could do.
Only the featherlight RB-36-III could get over 50,000' and not for continuous cruise.
MiloMorai, check out some of the information in the thread on the B-47.
- oldman
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Sure earl. :x That 38,000' is ~14,000' less what the MiG-15bis could do and ~10,000' less than the F-86E could do.
Only the featherlight RB-36-III could get over 50,000' and not for continuous cruise.
:airplane: Don't want to argue the point sir, but Chuck Yeager and 2 other pilots test flew a MIG-15, which had been flown to Kimpo Air Base by a North Korean pilot! This MIG 15 was delivered on Sept 21, 1953 and 1 month later, Yeager and test pilots flew the aircraft. According to their test reports, anything around Mach .89 and faster, the a/c was basically uncontrollable! The dive tests showed the a/c above 38,000 feet was dangerous at best and Russian Pilots, who discussed these tests later with Yeager, couldn't believe he had flown one to 55,000 feet and had intentionally dived the aircraft to test handling qualities.
I know the service ceiling is listed as 51,000 feet, but according to Yearger and other pilots who flew the a/c, was pretty much useless as a fighter above 38 to 40,000 feet! I guess that is where I got the 38K figure, not something I had read on the Mig-15.
As far as the RB-36 cruising altitudes, flights above 50,000 up to 65,000 feet were a common every day deal. The only restriction was how much fuel the 4 J-47's burned at that altitude, which would limit their amount of time spent over China or Russia, I guess, because that kind of info is still restricted as far as I know.
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Did Yeager ever fly a MiG-17?
However did MiG-15s ever bounce F-86s in Korea if they were unflyable at altitude?
Anyways, oldman said B-36 in his post, not RB-36.
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Did Yeager ever fly a MiG-17?
However did MiG-15s ever bounce F-86s in Korea if they were unflyable at altitude?
Anyways, oldman said B-36 in his post, not RB-36.
:airplane: All I know is what I have read and heard about F-86 sorties over "Mig" alley! Most of the time the 86's were anywhere from 38,000 to 42,000 feet and most times, the MIgs were below the 86's, which might account in part for the 13 to 1 kill record. I don't really know, except what the test pilots had to say about the Mig-15, could out climb the 86's, but beyond that one thing, was inferior to all other aspects of ACM's and was vastly over rated. I know they shot down several B-29's and some cargo a/c, which were being escorted with P-51K's and F-80, both of which were no match at lower altitudes where the kills were made. The jet stream in Korea, from the 35th parrell up, was from about 25K and up, so for bombing accuracies, the 29's usually bombed at 22 to 24K, again, depending on where the Jet stream was.
Just guessing, but I would bet the 86's tried to stay on the western edge of Mig alley, because if they had to try to intercept the Migs West and Northwest of them, they would have a big disadvantage in closing rate. If they chased the Migs East bound, they then would be taking advantage of the closure rate provided by the tail wind of the Jet stream, but since the Migs were probably running East bound, I guess it was a wash, but if one or the other had to try to close West bound, into a 90 knot Jet stream, the closure rate would be a big disadvantage to the attacking a/c.
I was never there, so don't really know, would love to hear some first hand accounts of the sorties over Mig alley by the Sabre pilots, but can't find any, so most of what I know was things I heard, which is second hand!
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(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/68/11th_Bombardment_Wing_Convair_B-36J-5-CF_Peacemaker_52-2225.jpg)
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:airplane: Excellent, outstanding video! BTW, triva for you: Over the B-66 hangs a small single engine aircraft in USAF markings! What is it?
:airplane: I guess no one could figure out what was hanging over the B-66! It was a "Stinson" L-5, a light single engine observation aircraft used though out the 2nd world war!
(http://i1346.photobucket.com/albums/p684/earl1937/StinsonL5_zps147b85fa.jpg)
And as the pilot in command, this is the instrument panel you had to work with, in all kinds of weather!
(http://i1346.photobucket.com/albums/p684/earl1937/L5Instrumentpanel_zps621913d4.jpg)
Can you just think about flying over and around German lines, as a forward observer for Allied artillery? They did, and lots of them didn't come home!