Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: jollyFE on August 04, 2013, 07:10:33 PM

Title: Looking for tips on flying the 109e
Post by: jollyFE on August 04, 2013, 07:10:33 PM
Since the "e" is going to be prominent in the pcoming BoB scenario, I thought it'd be good see what folks think of this bird.  Are there any dos and donts with this model of the 109.  I think we all know that is gun package isn't the greatest but it seems if ou can get close it will do
Title: Re: Looking for tips on flying the 109e
Post by: titanic3 on August 04, 2013, 07:43:53 PM
Eh, since we're focusing on the BoB event, I feel the Spit outclasses it in every way down low besides roll rate. Tried a few DA matches with it against a squadmate, Spit I kicked the Emil's butt whenever I didn't stall in the middle of a loop. Not sure how Emil vs SpitI does at high alt though.
Title: Re: Looking for tips on flying the 109e
Post by: USRanger on August 04, 2013, 08:49:51 PM
If a spit1 or hurri1 is on your six, push forward into a negative G dive.  If the spit or hurri tries to follow, their engine will die unless they go inverted first.  So outdiving can save you life.  Only use your cannon when you have a perfect shot.  Use the MGs to set up the shot, then hit him with the slug.  Good to see you Jolly, my old dear friend. <S>
Title: Re: Looking for tips on flying the 109e
Post by: Karnak on August 04, 2013, 10:46:27 PM
Eh, since we're focusing on the BoB event, I feel the Spit outclasses it in every way down low besides roll rate. Tried a few DA matches with it against a squadmate, Spit I kicked the Emil's butt whenever I didn't stall in the middle of a loop. Not sure how Emil vs SpitI does at high alt though.

Firepower.  One on one favors the Spit, but many on many is much more even or in favor of the Bf109Es as they don't have to saddle up for long sustained hits as the Spit I and Hurri I do.
Title: Re: Looking for tips on flying the 109e
Post by: FTJR on August 04, 2013, 11:15:04 PM
Dont read the BB whilst flying it
Title: Re: Looking for tips on flying the 109e
Post by: titanic3 on August 05, 2013, 12:04:54 AM
Firepower.  One on one favors the Spit, but many on many is much more even or in favor of the Bf109Es as they don't have to saddle up for long sustained hits as the Spit I and Hurri I do.

Hmm, good point. Firepower was the reason I asked the squad to fly 110C instead, until I learned they weren't going to escort the Heinkels and Junkers. Can't pick Spits and Hurris going for the bombers  :cry.
Title: Re: Looking for tips on flying the 109e
Post by: Tank-Ace on August 05, 2013, 02:27:25 AM
High altitude favors the 109E in your typical scenario fight. The reason being that the spits won't maneuver as well, due to the thin air, and can't effectively make snapshots, due to their low damage output. However, the 109's are perfectly capable of making snapshots.
Title: Re: Looking for tips on flying the 109e
Post by: BaldEagl on August 05, 2013, 03:13:08 AM
High altitude favors the 109E in your typical scenario fight. The reason being that the spits won't maneuver as well, due to the thin air, and can't effectively make snapshots, due to their low damage output. However, the 109's are perfectly capable of making snapshots.

"Damage output" only matters if you aren't hitting the pilot in the head.
Title: Re: Looking for tips on flying the 109e
Post by: Randy1 on August 05, 2013, 06:11:40 AM
 I suggest you fly dead straight at 5K.  Kind of like trolling for the big fish.  Wait for the red to get inside 200 out on your 6 before you do anything to keep them from being scared away.  Then you got'em.

Keep in mind this takes a lot of practice to get it right.

I just hope all 109 sticks don't adopt this surefire technique.  I kind of feel bad about sharing this secret.
Title: Re: Looking for tips on flying the 109e
Post by: Debrody on August 05, 2013, 06:56:41 AM
I suggest you fly dead straight at 5K.  Kind of like trolling for the big fish.  Wait for the red to get inside 200 out on your 6 before you do anything to keep them from being scared away.  Then you got'em.

Keep in mind this takes a lot of practice to get it right.

I just hope all 109 sticks don't adopt this surefire technique.  I kind of feel bad about sharing this secret.
no need for trolling, thanks.
Title: Re: Looking for tips on flying the 109e
Post by: jollyFE on August 05, 2013, 07:08:48 AM
Great advice Randy......I'll have to give it a try.



(Previous comment heavily imbedded with sarcasm)
Title: Re: Looking for tips on flying the 109e
Post by: Nashorn on August 05, 2013, 08:20:13 AM
I suggest you fly dead straight at 5K.  Kind of like trolling for the big fish.  Wait for the red to get inside 200 out on your 6 before you do anything to keep them from being scared away.  Then you got'em.

Keep in mind this takes a lot of practice to get it right.

I just hope all 109 sticks don't adopt this surefire technique.  I kind of feel bad about sharing this secret.
works in many planes, take the typhoon , I left mine at 3k on autopilot, went to get a drink, just in time to see the P38 miss will all his bullets overshoot then go into an unrecoverable flat spin all the way to his death
Title: Re: Looking for tips on flying the 109e
Post by: Karnak on August 05, 2013, 08:42:10 AM
High altitude favors the 109E in your typical scenario fight. The reason being that the spits won't maneuver as well, due to the thin air, and can't effectively make snapshots, due to their low damage output. However, the 109's are perfectly capable of making snapshots.
This is backwards.  The higher the alt the better it is for the Spit I.  The climb/acceleration rates get closer to the Bf109E's and the thin air affects both, not just the Spitfire, so the Spitfire maintains its maneuverability advantage.  Snapshots, of course, continue to greatly favor the Bf109E.
Title: Re: Looking for tips on flying the 109e
Post by: Oldman731 on August 05, 2013, 10:28:04 AM
If a spit1 or hurri1 is on your six, push forward into a negative G dive.  If the spit or hurri tries to follow, their engine will die unless they go inverted first.  So outdiving can save you life.  Only use your cannon when you have a perfect shot.  Use the MGs to set up the shot, then hit him with the slug.  Good to see you Jolly, my old dear friend.


Good advice.  Spit I v Emil is the best historical fight that AH has to offer.  Emil can use its flaps to better advantage than the Spit.  Don't worry so much about turn fighting, the Spit is better but not by a lot.  Emil needs quite a bit of rudder input.  As with the 8-gun British planes, close in to 250 yards or so before firing, the MG-FFs have softball-like trajectories.

- oldman
Title: Re: Looking for tips on flying the 109e
Post by: morfiend on August 05, 2013, 11:00:18 AM
This is backwards.  The higher the alt the better it is for the Spit I.  The climb/acceleration rates get closer to the Bf109E's and the thin air affects both, not just the Spitfire, so the Spitfire maintains its maneuverability advantage.  Snapshots, of course, continue to greatly favor the Bf109E.

 THX. Karnak. :aok

  There's a small window when the 109E can gain an advantage on the spit in a turn,as Oldman said it's flaps are more effective as they can be deployed about 40mph higher than the spit. It's this small window where a smart 109 pilot can catch a spit in a turn but unless you have the alt to work with that window closes far too fast.

  Guns are a wash IMHO you get 7 seconds of cannon on the 109 then you have 2 bbguns verses the spits 8 so in my books it's too close to call.

  Another player mentioned neg G's yes,yes,yes try to use this whenever you can,if you can get the spit slow and force it into neg G state it will just flutter down and you don't need to waist those 7 seconds of cannon...... :devil


 as always YMMV.


   :salute
Title: Re: Looking for tips on flying the 109e
Post by: icepac on August 05, 2013, 09:24:01 PM
The two MGFF are really underrated.
Title: Re: Looking for tips on flying the 109e
Post by: Tank-Ace on August 05, 2013, 10:43:01 PM
Karnak, you sort of missed what I was saying. Because both planes will be maneuvering less at alt, and slashing and diving passes become more effective, the cannons become a greater asset.
Title: Re: Looking for tips on flying the 109e
Post by: Karnak on August 05, 2013, 11:53:44 PM
Karnak, you sort of missed what I was saying. Because both planes will be maneuvering less at alt, and slashing and diving passes become more effective, the cannons become a greater asset.
No, I understood that, but I don't think it plays out like that.  You still need to maneuver your guns onto the enemy and the Spitfire still has the advantage there.  I don't think either will be doing diving passes on the other as you describe as they are both too closely matched in speed.  Neither are lumbering bombers.

Sure, if one starts much higher than the other, but that is a separate discussion.
Title: Re: Looking for tips on flying the 109e
Post by: titanic3 on August 05, 2013, 11:58:12 PM
1v1 engagements don't look too sweet for the Emil but I have a feeling a furball will favor the Emil instead. Spits won't have the firepower to quickly kill Emils without saddling onto its 6. Which is bad news for them in a furball.
Title: Re: Looking for tips on flying the 109e
Post by: Zacherof on August 06, 2013, 12:08:23 AM
1v1 engagements don't look too sweet for the Emil but I have a feeling a furball will favor the Emil instead. Spits won't have the firepower to quickly kill Emils without saddling onto its 6. Which is bad news for them in a furball.

my favortie tactic in the Emil in early war events is picking, roping, and questionable merges.
Also if you saddle up at a slower speed you will turn with the faster opponent.

Hurricanes are just as tricky as they turn way better obviosly, but can't go vertical as well as the spit can.

Title: Re: Looking for tips on flying the 109e
Post by: Tank-Ace on August 06, 2013, 12:56:07 AM
No, I understood that, but I don't think it plays out like that.  You still need to maneuver your guns onto the enemy and the Spitfire still has the advantage there.  I don't think either will be doing diving passes on the other as you describe as they are both too closely matched in speed.  Neither are lumbering bombers.

Sure, if one starts much higher than the other, but that is a separate discussion.

The spits and hurricanes will have to attack the bombers. By the nature of their mission, they must dive. Just in a general high-alt furball, you would be correct, but mission objectives force the UK's collective hand on this one.