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General Forums => Axis vs Allies => Topic started by: Buzzbait on January 03, 2002, 02:41:00 PM

Title: `Cauldron of Fire` The Sixth Army surrounded at Stalingrad
Post by: Buzzbait on January 03, 2002, 02:41:00 PM
S! all

The next setup for the CT is coming this Saturday.

It will be set on the Russian Front in late 1942 and early 1943.

It will be entitled:  `Cauldron of Fire` The Sixth Army surrounded at Stalingrad.

It will use the Stalingrad Terrain which is available in the HTC downloads.   This terrain has winter tiles and has never been used in the main arenas.

This is the aircraft lineup for the first week:

Axis

German

109F4
109G2
190A5
190F
Ju88
C-47 (limited bases)

Italian

MC202

GV`s

MkIV
M8 (subbing for German armoured car)
M3 (subbing for German halftrack)
Ostwind


Soviet:

Yak9T
La5FN (limited fields)
IL-2
C-47

Lendlease

Hurricane IIC
Hurricane IID

GV`s

Mk IV (subbing for T-34)
M8
M3
M16

The situation would start with Stalingrad mostly in the hands of the Germans, but surrounded after the Soviet Winter Counteroffensive of November `42.

The Strat system for this setup will be different than the normal `Reset` rules.

Instead each side will have defined objectives which they must capture.  Victory will be determined by a CT Staff member every night at 12 midnight EST.  If a side has achieved their victory conditions, then a victory will be declared and the Arena will be reset.

The German Objectives would be to break the ring encircling Stalingrad and drive the Soviets back. The Soviet objective would be to eliminate the pocket and drive West to take Rostov.

More details on the exact fields controlled, required to be captured etc. later.

The setup would use a perk point system which will allow players to build perk points for use in the second week of the setup when new perk aircraft will be introduced.

There will be no La-7`s, P-51`s, 190D9`s Spit IX`s, N1K2`s in this setup...   :D
Title: `Cauldron of Fire` The Sixth Army surrounded at Stalingrad
Post by: Nifty on January 03, 2002, 02:53:00 PM
mmm, Hurri IIc goodness...   :D

Sounds like a great planeset!  I had my worries about it at first, but this looks very nice.
Title: `Cauldron of Fire` The Sixth Army surrounded at Stalingrad
Post by: Oldman731 on January 03, 2002, 02:58:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Buzzbait:
It will be set on the Russian Front in late 1942 and early 1943.

Diggit.

- oldman
Title: `Cauldron of Fire` The Sixth Army surrounded at Stalingrad
Post by: Raubvogel on January 03, 2002, 03:01:00 PM
Sounds great. It would be nice to have some LaGG-3's and P-39s for this. Maybe in the future. Really looking forward to checking it out.
Title: `Cauldron of Fire` The Sixth Army surrounded at Stalingrad
Post by: K West on January 03, 2002, 03:02:00 PM
YES!

<begins scribbling '...drano...' on 37mm shells>

 :D

Westy
Title: `Cauldron of Fire` The Sixth Army surrounded at Stalingrad
Post by: Drano on January 03, 2002, 03:19:00 PM
LOL  bring it on Yakky Doodle!

            Drano


 
Quote
Originally posted by O'Westy:
YES!

<begins scribbling '...drano...' on 37mm shells>

  :D

Westy
Title: `Cauldron of Fire` The Sixth Army surrounded at Stalingrad
Post by: K West on January 03, 2002, 03:42:00 PM
hee heee heeee! This is gonna be fun   :)  I'll have to squeeze more time online, hook or by crook.

 No need to study the picture but here's a view of me you'll see often    ;)

 (http://www.yak9demo.com/photos/inflight.jpg)

[ 01-03-2002: Message edited by: O'Westy ]
Title: `Cauldron of Fire` The Sixth Army surrounded at Stalingrad
Post by: Eagler on January 03, 2002, 03:50:00 PM
sounds different, neat

thanks to those that are volunteering their time to bring this about.
Title: `Cauldron of Fire` The Sixth Army surrounded at Stalingrad
Post by: CRASH on January 03, 2002, 04:43:00 PM
Sounds like a blast, be sure to post on the general board often  :)  Be nice if when people logged into the ma one of those info boxes would pop up and tell people about the setup in the ct so that they're aware of it.  Most ma participants dont spend alot of time perusing the boards.  Some excellent strat ideas there, I think alot of ma participants would really like the idea of a two sided battle being decided every night.  Can ya see if pyro or ht would do it?
CRASH

 
Quote
Originally posted by Buzzbait:
S! all

The next setup for the CT is coming this Saturday.

It will be set on the Russian Front in late 1942 and early 1943.

It will be entitled:  `Cauldron of Fire` The Sixth Army surrounded at Stalingrad.

It will use the Stalingrad Terrain which is available in the HTC downloads.   This terrain has winter tiles and has never been used in the main arenas.

This is the aircraft lineup for the first week:

Axis

German

109F4
109G2
190A5
190F
Ju88
C-47 (limited bases)

Italian

MC202

GV`s

MkIV
M8 (subbing for German armoured car)
M3 (subbing for German halftrack)
Ostwind


Soviet:

Yak9T
La5FN (limited fields)
IL-2
C-47

Lendlease

Hurricane IIC
Hurricane IID

GV`s

Mk IV (subbing for T-34)
M8
M3
M16

The situation would start with Stalingrad mostly in the hands of the Germans, but surrounded after the Soviet Winter Counteroffensive of November `42.

The Strat system for this setup will be different than the normal `Reset` rules.

Instead each side will have defined objectives which they must capture.  Victory will be determined by a CT Staff member every night at 12 midnight EST.  If a side has achieved their victory conditions, then a victory will be declared and the Arena will be reset.

The German Objectives would be to break the ring encircling Stalingrad and drive the Soviets back. The Soviet objective would be to eliminate the pocket and drive West to take Rostov.

More details on the exact fields controlled, required to be captured etc. later.

The setup would use a perk point system which will allow players to build perk points for use in the second week of the setup when new perk aircraft will be introduced.

There will be no La-7`s, P-51`s, 190D9`s Spit IX`s, N1K2`s in this setup...    :D
Title: `Cauldron of Fire` The Sixth Army surrounded at Stalingrad
Post by: oboe on January 03, 2002, 04:56:00 PM
Sounds great!   Thanks for all your work in making this happen, and thanks for implementing some of our suggestions!

I wonder what the perk planes will be?  Yak 9U and 109G10?
Title: `Cauldron of Fire` The Sixth Army surrounded at Stalingrad
Post by: Hortlund on January 03, 2002, 05:02:00 PM
Dont care about those perks, it will be me and my trusty ol a5 as usual...
Title: `Cauldron of Fire` The Sixth Army surrounded at Stalingrad
Post by: -ammo- on January 03, 2002, 06:06:00 PM
*how* limited is the LA5?
Title: `Cauldron of Fire` The Sixth Army surrounded at Stalingrad
Post by: Wilbus on January 03, 2002, 08:36:00 PM
Let the Slaughter begin!

Ps. Why limit LA5?
Title: `Cauldron of Fire` The Sixth Army surrounded at Stalingrad
Post by: Kweassa on January 03, 2002, 09:39:00 PM
Anyone read my previous post?

 I think you people can call me "Nostradamus" now.. muhaha!  :D

 But seriously, it looks REALLY! interesting. Expereimenting with the 'victory condition' setting seems like it would also bring very interesting results.

 It's times like this when the early/midwar plane sets are most desired...  :)
Title: `Cauldron of Fire` The Sixth Army surrounded at Stalingrad
Post by: Staga on January 03, 2002, 09:44:00 PM
Maybe Lack of earlier LaGGs, Yaks and MiGs ? La-5FN was 1943 plane while 109F4 was from summer 1941 and G-2 summer 1942.
If only manufacturing year should matter Axis should have also G-6 and C.205

Plane choices looks fine imo.
Title: `Cauldron of Fire` The Sixth Army surrounded at Stalingrad
Post by: Buzzbait on January 03, 2002, 10:49:00 PM
S!

Ah the lament of the designer working with a limited plane set...   ;)

Ok here is my reasons for including what I did:

La-5 came into service first at Stalingrad during this period.  The later and improved La-5FN did not arrive until the summer of '43.  The 190A5 also did not come into service until 1943 although its performance was very similar to the late A4 which was present at Stalingrad.  For the purposes of this scenario, I am allowing both planes, with the La-5FN  being restricted somewhat in its usage.

The G2 first arrived in the late summer of '42, however it was not deployed to the Eastern Front as the Germans felt they had sufficiently strong aircraft in the F4.  Most of the G2's went to France or Sicily to face the better British and American planes.  The G2 began to arrive in Russia in the late fall and winter.

The Yak 9T also is not historically accurate for this period, however it is pretty close in performance to the Yak 1B so I am using it as a substitute.

Since the plane set which is covered here is intended to be for the period November 24th 1942 (the day the encirclement of the Sixth Army was complete) to December 31st, I think it is reasonably close.  

The second game week covers the period January 1st 1943 to February 15th.  (historically the 6th Army surrendered on February 2nd)  It will include the G6 and MC205 in limited numbers and the B-26.
Title: `Cauldron of Fire` The Sixth Army surrounded at Stalingrad
Post by: 10Bears on January 03, 2002, 11:48:00 PM
I understand the map designer made hi-alt bombing almost impossable... that dog!!
Title: `Cauldron of Fire` The Sixth Army surrounded at Stalingrad
Post by: LJK_KämpferAs on January 04, 2002, 01:25:00 AM
GOOD CHIT!
Title: `Cauldron of Fire` The Sixth Army surrounded at Stalingrad
Post by: Pepe on January 04, 2002, 03:49:00 AM
Quote
Originally posted by O'Westy:
hee heee heeee! This is gonna be fun    :)  I'll have to squeeze more time online, hook or by crook.

 No need to study the picture but here's a view of me you'll see often     ;)

  (http://www.yak9demo.com/photos/inflight.jpg)

[ 01-03-2002: Message edited by: O'Westy ]

I knew it! Another HOer IB! Must be some kind of Hispano-related disease...    :D

Cheers,

Pepe
Title: `Cauldron of Fire` The Sixth Army surrounded at Stalingrad
Post by: K West on January 04, 2002, 07:55:00 AM
lol Pepe. I stopped using the HO with the Yak-9 a while ago. Unless outnumbered!  The kills I got with a well placed facefull of 37mm "Yak Love" felt like I was taking advantage of a gamebug.  ;)

 Westy
Title: `Cauldron of Fire` The Sixth Army surrounded at Stalingrad
Post by: Kweassa on January 04, 2002, 11:01:00 AM
Er,, I thought you designed the map, 10Bears... or.. am I missing something here?
 
  :confused:

  :)
Title: `Cauldron of Fire` The Sixth Army surrounded at Stalingrad
Post by: Joc on January 04, 2002, 12:14:00 PM
Holy Russian bears! no B26? Vodka....I need a drink fast..........  :eek:
Title: `Cauldron of Fire` The Sixth Army surrounded at Stalingrad
Post by: brady on January 05, 2002, 01:26:00 AM
The 205 did not see service in Russia, to the best of my knowledge.

 Also why give the Russians an armored car? If memorie servies they were queit rare in russian service, same goes with the m16, i dont recal theam using these at all, a better substitute would be an osty for the SU 37.
Title: `Cauldron of Fire` The Sixth Army surrounded at Stalingrad
Post by: Buzzbait on January 05, 2002, 01:40:00 AM
S! Brady

I am not sure about the MC205.  It may have seen some test service, although it wasn't issued on a Squadron basis.  Which is why I plan on restricting the use.  Besides it would be nice to see a situation where it is one of the 'uber' planes...    ;)

The Soviets had a lot of light tanks which to all intents and purposes had the same usability as the M8.  Which is why I'm giving the Soviets it.
Title: `Cauldron of Fire` The Sixth Army surrounded at Stalingrad
Post by: Tuck on January 05, 2002, 07:54:00 AM
OK!  IT'S SATURDAY!  WHERE'S THE STUFF?!

hehe...i've been waiting for this...couldn't sleep last night due to the antici....pation.    :D

The Tuckster

"The first time I ever saw a jet, I shot it down."
Col. Chuck Yeager, USAAF

 (http://members.aol.com/tuck0006/images/lawnd2a.gif)
 (http://members.aol.com/tuck0006/images/tucksspita.jpg)
Title: `Cauldron of Fire` The Sixth Army surrounded at Stalingrad
Post by: brady on January 05, 2002, 10:35:00 AM
Buzzbait, After I posted that I was thinking you may of added the M8 for that very reasion :)
Title: `Cauldron of Fire` The Sixth Army surrounded at Stalingrad
Post by: brady on January 05, 2002, 11:11:00 AM
The CSIR ( Corpo di Spedizione in Russia,Expeditionary Corps in Russia) had as it's fighter element initaly 51 C. 200's distributed amongst the 359a,362a,369a,& 371a.
 As time progressed and combat condations took thier tool various units were shiped out and replaced, I could list all the units but the only signafigant point remaning is: In september 1942, 12 C 202's were flow into Stalino, followed by 2 photo recon varients. they operatded untill 17 January when they flew their last sortie operationaly and 5 days latter were pulled out of Russia and back to Italy.
 No MC 205's operated IN Russia, and only a few 202's.

 

  Howeaver this is a gane and I can't wait to fly in the CT this tour looks to be very fun indead and I <S> your work to this end :)

 Sources for this:

  Italian Aces of WW2
by Giovanni Massimello and Giorgio Apostolo

  Macchi MC 205 by Maurizio Di Terlizzi