Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Axis vs Allies => Topic started by: funkedup on October 30, 2001, 03:44:00 PM
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Instead of starting on the opposite end of the spectrum from the MA and working back towards it, let's start with the MA and work our way towards the far end.
So how about setting the CT up exactly the same as the MA, except:
1. Flight is disabled for Bish.
2. Knights have Axis aircraft only.*
3. Rooks have Allied aircraft only.
4. Scenario Icons. (3.0k max range.)
5. Rolling Plane Set**.
See how many people are attracted by these settings. Then one can think about moving further in the quasi-historical direction, e.g. radar settings, icon settings, terrains, strat, plane sets.
I'm one of many who have a lot of ideas for additional changes, but most of these ideas require some programming effort. And it's unlikely that HTC will expend this effort on an arena which has zero population.
We need to get some people in the arena before we start making big wish lists and designing social engineering masterpieces. So I am proposing simple changes which require zero programming effort and minimal maintenance.
*All vehicles and the C-47 are enabled at all times for both sides.
**First day of each Tour is April 1943. Each Day of the Tour is one WW2 Month, and planes are enabled on their approximate Month of introduction during WW2. Perk planes are still perked per MA values with one exception. Day 30 is August 1945, so the 30th and 31st days of a Tour are full planeset days during which all of a side's planes are enabled without perk prices.
[ 10-30-2001: Message edited by: funkedup ]
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That looks good funked. Might I suggest one strat addition -- disabling airdrop capture (but not resupply) to encourage a sea invasion concept and land war?
Charon
If the numbers were up this is where I would fly most of the time.
[ 10-30-2001: Message edited by: Charon ]
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I'm not sure it's possible to disable air dropping.
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disable teh c-47 that would do it if thats what you wanted
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Ya have to leave goons in, the maps aren't all GV friendly, and even less so when it comes to landing LVT's
I like Funked's idea, the RPS will cause some grief I am sure. Perhaps we could start without the RPS...
SKurj
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Leaving out the RPS is fine with me in the short term. The idea is to start with the MA and move away from it, and find the point where people start to get turned off completely, then move it back towards the MA a little. Find the most "historical" setup that can still draw something like 20 people minimum.
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i like the idea someone else posted a few weeks ago about closing the MA for a weekend and having everyone going to CT. there is lots of people that just dont go there because of the low numbers. personaly i have a blast in the CT but never go in there anymore due to the extremely low numbers (3-4 max). i think that once the people realized just how fun the arena could be there would be a lot more people in there and it would be worth going into.
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[ 12-04-2001: Message edited by: Seeker ]
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Pimpjoe the phenomenon you describe does indeed occur but it is not the cause of the lack of pilots in the current CT. Initially the CT had plenty of pilots in it, but they stopped coming back. We need to look at why they stopped coming back.
The MA is HTC's bread and butter. They have put a lot of time and effort into it and it is a success. So please stop with the suggestions that it should be closed because it is absotively posolutely not going to happen. All these suggestions do is anger the MA denziens and it make it clear that you don't understand HTC's business.
[ 10-31-2001: Message edited by: funkedup ]
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Let me give u a perspective from a guy who loves the historical match ups of opponents, and everthy CT could be, but doesnt spend 5 mins in the arena since its first week out.
No base captures. I spend my time I want some percievable result.
No score keeping. I spend my time, I want some percievble result.
I really am rooting for you guys, and i think you'll do better starting more like MA and converting over to true HA.
I'll be watching
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eek guys...calm down...it was just a suggestion. and im not sayin close it permanently, just for a weekend. hell its been down longer than that a time or two. sheesh...sorry...i wont make any more suggestions
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I agree with joe here on a few key items. And its my opinion that they are key, for instance, starting from a MA aspect and moving towards Historical slowly. I like the idea of starting with basicaly the same thing but only using 2 countries with axis vs allied planesets. In hindsight it's clear that moving to the CT we have now may not have been the best choice, nonetheless it was givin to us which is a good sign. HTC does care about it's customers and is willing to try new things. That being said they're not gonna run off and waste time trying every little suggestion either, I wouldn't. I do believe though that a slightly more Historic 2nd MA might get some numbers. Maybe if a CM or two were able to tweak things for the populace we could find a happy medium as far as settings were concerned, that may be stretching it though, a voting system would have to be devised so that a CM wasn't changing things based on the opinion of a small percentage of players. 'Tis a thought though
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Leaving out the RPS is fine with me in the short term. The idea is to start with the MA and move away from it, and find the point where people start to get turned off completely, then move it back towards the MA a little. Find the most "historical" setup that can still draw something like 20 people minimum.
funkedup
If you want a rolling plane set in the long run (I do) don't count on it happening if it's not there from the beginning. Once a pattern is set it's hard to turn back. I agree the CT needs to be more like the MA in strat and scoring to attract players, but the RPS is what seems to really set it apart and make it "historical". Otherwise, all it is is some late war axis vs allies arena. Also, how will the LW contingent feel in an arena where they will not enjoy any periods of historical advantage?
Charon
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Charon you have a good point about setting a pattern. But I'd rather just try it out with both settings and let the numbers speak for themselves. If RPS draws less than no-RPS (all other things being equal) then the matter is solved.
About the Luftwaffe, I think that adding some planes to the planeset (BoB and early war USAAF) would give them some periods of advantage in the long term. Also I think it's true of most LW guys that they aren't looking for advantages. If they wanted historical advantages they chose just about the worse possible side, except maybe for IJN. :)
[ 11-01-2001: Message edited by: funkedup ]
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" We need to look at why they stopped coming back. "
I stopped going because it was akin to online H2H play in that the fight was constantly between the same two closest cross-Channel points with a small (and dwindling every week) number of players flying the same few planes. There was no strat, no benefit to attract flying bombers (when getting my prettythang handed to me it boost the ego to knock a few JU's or B-26's out of the air) and it just didn't have a very historical feeling at all to it (imo)
This topic (if HTC will implement it) and the ideas offered is a giant step to making the CT a viable and well used arena imo.
Westy
[ 11-01-2001: Message edited by: Westy MOL ]
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Pimpjoe, no need for me to calm down, I'm not upset. I just wanted to make it clear that suggestions which are suicidal to HTC's business are not going to help. Please continue to make suggestions but keep in mind that they have 6 salaries to pay. <S>
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What WarChild said.
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I think AH still doesn't have enough people to populate two arenas at the same time. I love the CT, I really do, but I live in the far East. If there aren't many people at the CT in your time zone, just imagine what it is like when I log on at about 9:00 PM in Seoul, Korea :(
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How about a "History Night"? Take one day from a week and it is CT only.. Of course, to keep people from complaining this policy forces people to the CT, HTC would have to refine and redesign CT maps, settings, strats and etc...
My 12￦ :D
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You're probably right about that Kwe. But you have to imagine what it's like when I log in at 9:00 pm in California. 300 people in the MA. There's definitely enough players to make something happen on a nightly basis. Maybe not 24-7 though.
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AH does have enough players to populate 2 arenas full time. It doesn't need 1 arena to hold 400 ppl...
SKurj
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If there were a WWIIA (MA settings except Axis vs. Allies), I would play for sure in it. Why not start with that and slowly refine the "theater" as time goes by?
Field captures MUST be enabled - otherwise there's no strat, just furballing, which is why I suspect numbers were so low during my two-week grace period.
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I think part of the problem is the current map in the CT was designed for large historical scenarios. It is an excellent map, but probably a little out of scale for the number of people who fly (or would fly) in the MA. I think if we had a 128x128 historical map or 256 x 256 historical map built to AH1.08 standards (i.e.- The 3 T's; Trains, trucks, and trees) you would see more happening in the CT. We'll have to see what happens.
[ 11-05-2001: Message edited by: Sundog ]
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Punt
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Originally posted by funkedup:
Pimpjoe the phenomenon you describe does indeed occur but it is not the cause of the lack of pilots in the current CT. Initially the CT had plenty of pilots in it, but they stopped coming back. We need to look at why they stopped coming back.
FYI Personally, because no-one won the war. Initially I didn't realise that the war couldn't be won (ie no field captures) and so I enjoyed it and really could not understand why the numbers were so low. Then DUH...I thought something screwy's going on.
So as soon as I did find out, I didn't come back.
Achttag
<< Dragon Hawks >> - Armored Division
Don't get me started about trees
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My suggestion, which is cummulitive of several suggestions, most important being, CAPTURE IS POSSIBLE:
In real war, the reward for going to war was real estate. Guys didn't fly to find a furball for ONLY the purpose of being rewarded for the kill, they didn't bomb the crap out of a city in order to 'feel good about landing and surviving'...they did it for the big picture of CAPTURE!
Set CT up with rotating maps once a month.(Or, auto-change theatres with with "War is over")
ETO, then PTO, pick a map for either.(Channel map once, then Norway, or Philippines, then ??)
Enable field capture.
Limted icons, 3k or less for friendly,none for enemy.
Disable bar dar below 500 feet OR disable dot dar.(Its my opinion that some sort of dar should be avail, so folks CAN find a fight)
Make it 1945, enable all planes for that Theatre, or, make it 1941 first week, 1942 second week, etc.
Its a no -brainer...allow field capture and they will come.
Most of all, forget what other sims did, this is AH, it has had almost a 33% customer base increase lately, the sooner they do something with it the better, there are alot here that are ready for something new (Some have moved onto IL-2 until some kind of new arena or version draws their interest once again) and the new guys are willing to give something different a try...lets DO it! Throw something together..if it doesn't work, the population within that arena on a given week-end night will tell ya.
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Ripsnort pretty much sums it up for me though I'd prefer the RPS over "all planes all the time".
How we get there is another thing all together. Do we start out close to what the MA is like and then move slowly away or do we go hard core put in all the settings that are possible now and hope HT will add in the rest as he is capable and or willing?
My opinion is that we lean towards hard core. People are going to come check out something that is seriously different from what they are presently flying and those who like it will likely stay while the others will simply go back and stay in the MA.
This then is my 2cents :D
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Instead of a RPS to start out with, I think the following would be more interesting.
Tie aircraft model avialability to specific strat objects w/ the most valuable aircraft's facility being closest to the begining front line. Begin each campaign with all reasonable aircraft (ie. no 262, tempest) available and planes are removed as their associated facility is lost. If the facility is recaptured then its plane is once again available.
Maybe...
F.
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My opinion is that we lean towards hard core. People are going to come check out something that is seriously different from what they are presently flying and those who like it will likely stay while the others will simply go back and stay in the MA.
This was already tried, and the CT is empty.
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I was under the impression the main reason the CT is empty is that there is no strat in the arena.
Anyway its just my opinion. I'd be happy either way just so long as we get the CT up and running with strat and modified radar :D
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Awulf I saw your suggestions for settings in the General Forum and I agreed with them 100%. :)