Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: Krusty on August 14, 2013, 10:44:00 PM
-
Microsoft is promising to come out with a major update a year after Win8 was forced upon an unwilling public.
Essentially they're claiming Service Packs are obsolete and were only suitable to the CD-ROM era. Never mind that almost all of them were delivered electronically for the past decade or so.
Say hello to Windows 8.1. In a move that forshadows bad trends to come with MS, it comes with a laundry list of "features".... Which are supposed to fix .... what?
It adds a start button, but all that does is launch the Win8 touch menu "screen of idiocy" (TM, patent pending). So MS listened to all the complaints and all they took from it is people missed the button. They didn't add the menu or functionality tied to the button, just the button. MS missed the forrest for the trees on this one.
They added a "boot to desktop" option -- but essentially you're still stuck with the same "screen of idiocy" to get anything done.
They've allowed you to make the background of the start screen now match the background of your desktop, so that when you're forced to use the "screen of idiocy" (TM, patent pending) nonstop the jump back and forth is less jarring. Never mind the fact that it's a terrible design that the entire PC world detests, and was CLEARLY designed for and by mobile devices. Never mind practical use. You still have to use it, but they've lessened the blow when you have to actually interact with the OS in any way shape or form.
Other additions? The lock screen now turns your computer into a cloud-updating photo frame.
There are new tile sizes for the start screen. Oh, joy! Oh kaloo, kalay! We can end our hunger strikes!
They expanded the Metro PC settings section to almost include most of what used to be in the old-style Control Panel. Most being the key word.
Oh, and most importantly, probably the ONLY reason MS put any effort into 8.1 to begin with: They dramatically redesigned the Windows Store! It now updates all store aps automatically without your input or consent in the background as windows is running! (worst idea EVER. Anybody using a mobile device with any store on any OS knows updating to the latest version more often than not kills a program or breaks it in some way)
So, in short: Microsoft have totally said "Screw you all!" to the PC world at large, taken EVERY aspect of Windows 8 that was bad for PCs and only good for mobile devices, and made it more integral or more of a nuisance than it was before!
Time for HTC to start working on MAC code, or maybe pick the most popular Linux brand, or even make their own bootable gaming CD-ROM-based OS or something. Windows has shat the bed again.
I will simply leave you with this slightly NSFW link to Penny Arcade's commentary on it:
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2013/06/28
-
Shrug, stick with Windows 7 until it turns into what Windows XP is now, which by that time, a decent Windows OS will be out. Assuming they follow the trend of OS releases going from suck-good-suck-awesome-suck-awesome-suck.
-
Time for HTC to start working on MAC code, or maybe pick the most popular Linux brand, or even make their own bootable gaming CD-ROM-based OS or something. Windows has shat the bed again.
I'm glad HTC is smart enough to see how bad an idea that would be.
-
I'm glad HTC is smart enough to see how bad an idea that would be.
Or then HTC is going to miss the bandwagon again when the trend is to dump windows. Steam already runs on linux and AAA titles are released almost weekly for it.
Macs are probably not worth the time as most macs are not suitable for gaming and the ones that are, have a VERY premium price.
-
Trend? Windows has 81-88% market share, Mac 10-14%, and the rest is divided up by Ubuntu, Linux, Sun, iPhone, Nintendo,. . .
Recalculate while you still can.
-
There's still some time. According to the Microsoft Support Lifecycle (http://support.microsoft.com/lifecycle/?c2=14019) pages, Windows 7 doesn't die until January 2020.
-
Trend? Windows has 81-88% market share, Mac 10-14%, and the rest is divided up by Ubuntu, Linux, Sun, iPhone, Nintendo,. . .
Recalculate while you still can.
I wasn't talking about market share. The trend is that AAA gaming titles are extending support to linux which is like a water divider. When linux will get interesting titles, one major issue against dumping windows has been removed. I know for sure that if the games I play would run on linux I would never pay for another Windows license again.
When Steam/Valve announced that they'll start supporting linux and Newell basically told MS to suck it, Valve assigned coders to improve the gaming specific libraries in linux. The release and development of SDL2 is another step towards linux gaming being more mainstream. http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTQzNTA
I was trying AH2 on linux last week (through wine) and I got a nice 60fps on my current hardware. As usual, wine made the game a bit glitchy (graphics flashed on text buffer). Otherwise it ran fine. Even my MS precision pro stick worked out of the box with no configuration or drivers :)
-
Not to mention market share is a pointless statistic when the majority of people using "microsoft" aren't using 8. In the corporate world, only small fry and idiots are using 8. The only reason every part of that market share would be windows 8 is if MS shut down ALL Win7 and legacy systems this second.
And that won't happen, ever. Because even if MS is stupid, they ain't suicidal. You can't force people to use Win8, no matter how hard MS tries.
So "market share" doesn't equate to "Windows 8 usage"...
-
Trend? Windows has 81-88% market share,
I wonder what percentage of that percentage is because they have no choice.
-
Look at the MS releases going back to 3.1. They have a history of a good software package followed by two or three really bad software releases. Bill Gates was so competitive, I think this is intentional to boost sales over a long time frame. Sell them something good then sell them something that sucks then sell a fix, then an all new suckey package then a fix for that then a good package then do it again.
-
I wasn't talking about market share. The trend is that AAA gaming titles are extending support to linux which is like a water divider. When linux will get interesting titles, one major issue against dumping windows has been removed. I know for sure that if the games I play would run on linux I would never pay for another Windows license again.
When Steam/Valve announced that they'll start supporting linux and Newell basically told MS to suck it, Valve assigned coders to improve the gaming specific libraries in linux. The release and development of SDL2 is another step towards linux gaming being more mainstream. http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTQzNTA
I was trying AH2 on linux last week (through wine) and I got a nice 60fps on my current hardware. As usual, wine made the game a bit glitchy (graphics flashed on text buffer). Otherwise it ran fine. Even my MS precision pro stick worked out of the box with no configuration or drivers :)
Well, the growth margins for Valve are a lot different than they are for HTC. Given the market share (there is a reason for quoting it after all) if HTC devoted money and time to develop a specific version for Linux, their user base would grow by about twenty users. Worse, they would open themselves up to some of the worst case scenarios a small software company could. Valve is hoping that they can help push gamers into Linux, rather than suck more Linux users into Steam. So, I disagree with you and instead believe that it is one the dumbest things Valve has done.
If a company wants to generate greater sales they market to PC and Xbox, which are the two largest markets open to sales. Valve had a good idea with Steam, but then they came around with this Greenlight idea which has stymied Indie game makers instead of spurring them on. The Microsoft Marketplace and the Desura reveals are doing much more for market expansion than anything Steam has done.
In fact, I would probably suggest the Amazon market and Google Play before even thinking about Linux, despite the fact that Linux can support more hardware. You may laugh, but there are ways to market even a complex game like AH into the Android market (limiting the interface to vehicles for instance). In the end, the profit and ROI would be much greater than the 'trend' as you put it.
Oh, and Krusty. . . Windows 8 is something I use to 'play' with things like the Star Trek LCARS interface upgrade. It really makes grocery ordering, and media center shine, but that's about it.
-
Who, in their right mind, willingly upgraded to 8?
-
I think the "suck - decent - suck - decent" cycle is not intentional. I think it's because they botch most big changes, have to learn for several years, then get it right (or at least less wrong). Then they get ideas on how to make another set of big changes, get it horribly wrong again, have to learn for a few years how to make it better, and so on.
Windows over DOS sucked. OS/2 (not entirely MS, taken over by IBM) was OK. Windows NT sucked. Windows 95 a few service packs in was OK (along with 98, etc.). Windows 2000 kind of sucked. Windows XP was good. Windows Vista sucked. Windows 7 was OK. Windows 8 sucks. We'll have to wait for Windows 9 (or whatever follows Windows 8).
Let's hope they don't go from decent-suck-decent to decent-suck-suck-decent, or we'll have to wait for Windows 10.
-
I personally don't mind Windows 8... I use it right now on my new home built computer. Runs very smooth and looks nice. I can connect to VPNs for work from my home and run most of all the software I've used over the years. There are a few compatibility issues I've encountered but that is to be expected with new platforms.
I hated Windows 8 at first when it came out but after I spent a short amount of time messing around in the Windows 8 environment, I was able to figure most of the stuff out. I work in software development and IT so I can see why many people hate it. Simply put, most people don't like change.
For a small home network, Windows 8 does just fine but in a large business environment, I can see it upsetting a lot of people.
-
Simply put, most people don't like BAD change.
Fixed. The old cliched defensive line of "people don't like change" is false. People love change... when it's good change. And they're smart enough to know the difference. When forced changes are rammed down the collective throat of the customer base that are NOT good changes it only spreads dissent and hate towards the company doing it.
-
Well, the growth margins for Valve are a lot different than they are for HTC. Given the market share (there is a reason for quoting it after all) if HTC devoted money and time to develop a specific version for Linux, their user base would grow by about twenty users. Worse, they would open themselves up to some of the worst case scenarios a small software company could. Valve is hoping that they can help push gamers into Linux, rather than suck more Linux users into Steam. So, I disagree with you and instead believe that it is one the dumbest things Valve has done.
If a company wants to generate greater sales they market to PC and Xbox, which are the two largest markets open to sales. Valve had a good idea with Steam, but then they came around with this Greenlight idea which has stymied Indie game makers instead of spurring them on. The Microsoft Marketplace and the Desura reveals are doing much more for market expansion than anything Steam has done.
In fact, I would probably suggest the Amazon market and Google Play before even thinking about Linux, despite the fact that Linux can support more hardware. You may laugh, but there are ways to market even a complex game like AH into the Android market (limiting the interface to vehicles for instance). In the end, the profit and ROI would be much greater than the 'trend' as you put it.
Oh, and Krusty. . . Windows 8 is something I use to 'play' with things like the Star Trek LCARS interface upgrade. It really makes grocery ordering, and media center shine, but that's about it.
I agree that HTC has other issues to deal with before even thinking about a linux version. However there are a few millions of linux users who currently still have a very limited selection of game titles - that's why AH would stick like a sore thumb in the eye on the app market places. That's why it MIGHT actually make some business.
Worth the production cost? Debatable.
-
Newegg was offering a free downgrade to W7 on their W8 machines.
-
The only reason I have Win 8 on one of my 8 PC's in my house, is to run the Netflix App, which is the ONLY way you can get 5800bps "Super HD" to work on a PC right now. It'll work on other devices, but they aren't windows based. So, if you run a home theater PC as I do and do most of your stuff on your main TV with it like me, and you don't want to watch Netflix in 1700kpbs "Regular HD", and want the really good picture, Win 8 is the ONLY option. I researched this high and low before spending one of my 15$ Win7 upgrade tickets for Win8 before the expired.
Gaming systems are all still Win7, and will be until something better than Win8 comes along, or I'm forced to change in order to keep up with current tech/games.
I agree with Chalenge as well 100%, Windows isn't going anywhere, and OS's like Linux and what not will be a niche thing at best for years to come, unless all the software developers decided at once to abandon Microsoft, which will never happen IMO.
-
Fixed. The old cliched defensive line of "people don't like change" is false. People love change... when it's good change. And they're smart enough to know the difference. When forced changes are rammed down the collective throat of the customer base that are NOT good changes it only spreads dissent and hate towards the company doing it.
Fair enough. I see your point.
Gaming systems are all still Win7, and will be until something better than Win8 comes along, or I'm forced to change in order to keep up with current tech/games.
I'm curious about your stand on gaming on a Windows 8 machine? I have Total War Medieval 2/Napoleon, War Thunder, and Sim City 4. All of the games I have are running just fine. I have not personally encountered a problem that would prevent a user from adopting Windows 8 as their next gaming platform.
-
I think that Windows 8 can run everything. The main reason that I wouldn't get it is because MS is trying to force people into an interface mode for the OS that is best suited to cell phones, not desktops.
-
I think that Windows 8 can run everything. The main reason that I wouldn't get it is because MS is trying to force people into an interface mode for the OS that is best suited to cell phones, not desktops.
Without a doubt, Windows 8 is better suited for a touch screen. I have noticed, however, that it is much faster for me to run a program in the Windows 8 environment compared to the traditional OS of 7 and earlier... For example, if I need to open up device manager, I can simply press the windows key and start typing in "device" and the Device Manager application can instantly be selected from the list. This is several seconds faster as opposed to trying to open the Control Panel and browse through the menus. No need to browse through the long list of programs in the traditional start menu.
Everybody has their preference. To each their own.
-
Plazus, right click My Computer, properties, and right there "Device Manager"
A right click and a click. That's all it takes in Win7.
Don't discout Linux systems. They have been making strides on the user interfaces to make them more and more user friendly. You no longer even need to know how to use the shell prompt anymore for general personal computing. People will start looking around and see that these other things work a LOT like Windows "should" work, and for a lot less money and a lot less interference from Microsoft.
Just because they don't have the popularity vote YET (which MS only gets because they literally were monopolizing OS distribution on new PCs for decades) doesn't mean they aren't a valid alternative.
-
Without a doubt, Windows 8 is better suited for a touch screen. I have noticed, however, that it is much faster for me to run a program in the Windows 8 environment compared to the traditional OS of 7 and earlier... For example, if I need to open up device manager, I can simply press the windows key and start typing in "device" and the Device Manager application can instantly be selected from the list. This is several seconds faster as opposed to trying to open the Control Panel and browse through the menus. No need to browse through the long list of programs in the traditional start menu.
Everybody has their preference. To each their own.
Hiding the good old shortcuts like the one Krusty mentioned surely makes the Win8 method faster. But only if it works the way it should... You are aware of localized versions of Windows, aren't you? So, if I type "ohja" for "Ohjauspaneeli" in the starting window, it will find "Ohjauspaneeli" (Finnish for Control Panel), diminishing the amount of choices starting by each letter. But if I typed "Lai..." for "Laitehallinta" (Device Manager), it might not find anything at all. Before MrRipley says it works for him, I must add that I'm not 100% positive if it was Device Manager or some other sub-category under Control Panel. In any case, the Finnish name didn't work for me, Control Panel was the way to go. The typing method may cause other problems, too: You'd really have to know the name for a certain service to find it. Microsoft's way of changing the names for functions and applications can be confusing for people like myself with tweaking experience from nine versions of Windows plus several language variations inside them. I'm OK with Finnish and English, but if I had to do something to a German, Spanish, Swedish or Russian speaking OS, I'd be in far more trouble with Win8 than what I was with the XP cases I've accomplished. Partially, because I don't know the terms in those languages, partially because in Win8 the icons might look different and mostly because the owner of the given computer would not understand what I were looking for. And of course partially because I don't even know the Russian alphabet.
-
The only reason I have Win 8 on one of my 8 PC's in my house, is to run the Netflix App, which is the ONLY way you can get 5800bps "Super HD" to work on a PC right now. It'll work on other devices, but they aren't windows based. So, if you run a home theater PC as I do and do most of your stuff on your main TV with it like me, and you don't want to watch Netflix in 1700kpbs "Regular HD", and want the really good picture, Win 8 is the ONLY option. I researched this high and low before spending one of my 15$ Win7 upgrade tickets for Win8 before the expired.
Gaming systems are all still Win7, and will be until something better than Win8 comes along, or I'm forced to change in order to keep up with current tech/games.
I agree with Chalenge as well 100%, Windows isn't going anywhere, and OS's like Linux and what not will be a niche thing at best for years to come, unless all the software developers decided at once to abandon Microsoft, which will never happen IMO.
And this is completely artificial, a move from Microsoft to make it seem Win8 would have any extra value. Just like they did with DX10/11.
-
Hiding the good old shortcuts like the one Krusty mentioned surely makes the Win8 method faster. But only if it works the way it should... You are aware of localized versions of Windows, aren't you? So, if I type "ohja" for "Ohjauspaneeli" in the starting window, it will find "Ohjauspaneeli" (Finnish for Control Panel), diminishing the amount of choices starting by each letter. But if I typed "Lai..." for "Laitehallinta" (Device Manager), it might not find anything at all. Before MrRipley says it works for him, I must add that I'm not 100% positive if it was Device Manager or some other sub-category under Control Panel. In any case, the Finnish name didn't work for me, Control Panel was the way to go. The typing method may cause other problems, too: You'd really have to know the name for a certain service to find it. Microsoft's way of changing the names for functions and applications can be confusing for people like myself with tweaking experience from nine versions of Windows plus several language variations inside them. I'm OK with Finnish and English, but if I had to do something to a German, Spanish, Swedish or Russian speaking OS, I'd be in far more trouble with Win8 than what I was with the XP cases I've accomplished. Partially, because I don't know the terms in those languages, partially because in Win8 the icons might look different and mostly because the owner of the given computer would not understand what I were looking for. And of course partially because I don't even know the Russian alphabet.
I've always hated localized versions for the reasons you mentioned. First of all the finnish namings of the functions are sometimes very hard to guess and second the interfaces may not all be fully translated.
In my experience Win8 search finds the functions both in english and finnish name versions. So if you go to localized version and type 'control p' it'll find the control panel. Also note that Win8 made the search weird - when you get the results you no longer get them all in one bunch, they're in categories. And if you happen to have the 'file' category active when you're looking for an app or setting, you may miss the small number which shows the amount of found hits behind the category. At least I did on my first search.
By the way I have run the Windows 8.1 beta for some time on my Parallels virtuali host and search is one of the things that were fine tuned in it. Now the search defaults to 'everything' and you have the option to limit it category by category.
-
It's not really artificial when the difference is much higher resolution and detail with netflix with users with net companies like mine who peer with Netflix and give me 250 megabits per second and the ability to use it. There literally is NO other option than Win 8 for Home theater PC users and this capability - artificial isn't the right word - BS or strongarm or typical Microsoft type tactics...I can agree with that 100%.
-
It's not really artificial when the difference is much higher resolution and detail with netflix with users with net companies like mine who peer with Netflix and give me 250 megabits per second and the ability to use it. There literally is NO other option than Win 8 for Home theater PC users and this capability - artificial isn't the right word - BS or strongarm or typical Microsoft type tactics...I can agree with that 100%.
What I meant is that 4k resolutions would be fixed really easily with a simple patch even to Windows XP - but they choose not to.
-
It's just like they held back features for Vista, because nobody wanted Vista. What do they do? They spam the hell out of the new feature set... Most of which was actually coded for XP ***by*** Microsoft coders to be released in a service pack -- only marketting decisions told them not to. They held it back and promoted them as "new features" in vista.
Among the features, previews when alt-tabbing, the ability to resize images from windows explorer, and a bunch of other stuff.
They effectively hid it all from XP, but you could manually get the tools off of MS's update site if you KNEW what to look for. And these were out years before Vista. They had a long time to figure out how to spin the new launch.
There's also a very big possibility they sabotaged the multi-thread handling in XP to make Vista look better.
I have no doubt that Win7 and even WinXP can handle those resolutions with Netflix quite admirably, maybe even better than Win8....
But that would undermine Microsoft's marketting department. And we can't have that, can we?
P.S. Had to look it up to remember the name. Windows XP "Power Toys"... as you can see a summary of the features here:
http://www.majorgeeks.com/files/details/microsoft_windows_xp_powertoys.html
-
I have no doubt that Win7 and even WinXP can handle those resolutions with Netflix quite admirably, maybe even better than Win8....
When it comes to 4k display resolutions and Nvidia (at least for now) it will require bare minimum Windows 7. Neither flavor of Vista or XP is supported at this point. And even then, not all hardware is supported on Win 7 or 8 at this time. At least this is true for the hardware I have for Win 7 (GTX 600, or 700 series drivers). Not even Titan supports 4k right now, though it's coming eventually.
-
I had Win8 for several months, decided I had enough......formatted my HD and reinstalled Win7. Waste of Money!
I liked the control panel the way it was. Also, the start button is so much easier than dragging your mouse over the top right corner.
Here is a link for the MS financial statement for 2002. Does not look good compared with the past.
Monopolies often get too big and fail.
https://www.google.com/finance?q=NASDAQ:MSFT&fstype=ii (https://www.google.com/finance?q=NASDAQ:MSFT&fstype=ii)
-
I had Win8 for several months, decided I had enough......formatted my HD and reinstalled Win7. Waste of Money!
I liked the control panel the way it was. Also, the start button is so much easier than dragging your mouse over the top right corner.
Here is a link for the MS financial statement for 2002. Does not look good compared with the past.
Monopolies often get too big and fail.
https://www.google.com/finance?q=NASDAQ:MSFT&fstype=ii (https://www.google.com/finance?q=NASDAQ:MSFT&fstype=ii)
The free 8.1 update will bring the orb back to the desktop.
-
Monopolies are never too big to fail (unless the government bails them out, in which case it just takes longer).
-
When it comes to 4k display resolutions and Nvidia (at least for now) it will require bare minimum Windows 7. Neither flavor of Vista or XP is supported at this point. And even then, not all hardware is supported on Win 7 or 8 at this time. At least this is true for the hardware I have for Win 7 (GTX 600, or 700 series drivers). Not even Titan supports 4k right now, though it's coming eventually.
That's IMO due to the new nature of 4K displays. I meant to suggest that either OS would more than be capable of handling it if they were patched and updated to do so. The effort will not be made, is my contention, simply because MS is forcing people to move to Win8 against their will, and by holding back any and all "good" features from the prior OSs they will try to get more people to move to 8.