Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: earl1937 on August 16, 2013, 03:52:56 PM
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:airplane: Boeings B-47, which went into service in 1951, but never saw any actual combat action, has been credited with many of the design inovations which are reflected in todays airliners and was the fore runner of the mighty B-52! The Boeing Model 450 B-47 Stratojet was a long-range, six-engined, jet-powered strategic bomber designed to fly at high subsonic speeds and at high altitudes to avoid enemy interception. The B-47's mission was primarily to drop nuclear bombs on the Soviet Union. With its engines carried in pods under the swept wing, the B-47 was a major innovation in post-World War II combat jet design, and helped lead to modern jet airliners.
The B-47 entered service with the United States Air Force's Strategic Air Command (SAC) in 1951. It never saw combat as a bomber, but was a mainstay of SAC's bomber strength during the 1950s and early 1960s, and remained in use as a bomber until 1965. It was also adapted to a number of other missions, including photo reconnaissance, electronic intelligence and weather reconnaissance, remaining in service as a reconnaissance platform until 1969 and as a testbed until 1977.
During early tests of the XB-47 prototype, the canopy came off at high speed, killing pilot Scott Osler. The copilot safely landed the aircraft. This resulted in a canopy redesign, and the hiring of pilot Tex Johnston as chief test pilot. (Anybody know what Tex Johnston did as Boeing test pilot that no one else did, or would never do again).
(http://i1346.photobucket.com/albums/p684/earl1937/B47-19Onflightline_zpsc7a16f8a.jpg)
I think this pic was taken at Walker Air Force base, sometime in the middle 50's.
(http://i1346.photobucket.com/albums/p684/earl1937/b47withrato_zps0d6d62df.jpg) One of the most awesome sights you would ever see!
(http://i1346.photobucket.com/albums/p684/earl1937/012435eatherwb-47e-1-0481showingdragchute_zps870e743a.jpg) A common sight at most SAC bases around the U.S.
There were 2,032 of these B-47's built and was used until 1965 in various roles in the Air Force. It had 6, J-47, General Elect dash25 engines, which produce enough thrust to have a 4,660 foot rate of climb and could cruise at 557 MPH. It had a service ceiling of 33,100 feet, but many other models, which were lighter in weight, such as the RB-47 could fly much higher. It had a ferry range of 4,647 miles, with reserves and it could defend itself to some degree, using 2, 20MM tail cannon, fired and aimed by a AN/APG-39 radar system.
This is one of the aircraft which was featured in the Jimmie Stewart movie, Stratgic Air command, and was filmed at MacDill AFB near Tampa in 1955. The bombardment wing was the 306th BG which furnished the B-47's for the movie.
One of the key flights was an overseas transfere of the whole wing to Yakoda AFB in Japan, non stop, with in flight refueling, featuring Jimmy Stewart as an aircraft commander on one of the B-47's.
(http://i1346.photobucket.com/albums/p684/earl1937/Inflightrefueling_zpsc62a1964.jpg)
(http://i1346.photobucket.com/albums/p684/earl1937/B-47sinFormation_zps31b5d53c.jpg)
Would be difficult to pick the most beautiful bomber between this B-47 and the B-36 Peacemaker!
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B-36 is ugly.
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In RB-47 configuration,
At least five of these aircraft were fired on, and three of these were shot down.
I count that as having seen combat even if they weren't sent to drop bombs.
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Wasnt Tex the guy that rolled that prototype 707?
I always thought the B47 was a cool looking aeroplane! :aok
Seeing all this vintage SAC stuff ...I may have to go watch Dr Strangelove. :)
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The B-47 tactics including toss bombing. Approach at low level, pull up for an Immelman releasing the weapon on the up line. The tactic was discontinued when they started having some wing failures. From what I've read on the B-47 it handled more like a fighter than a bomber.
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I have read that it was a killer of crew.
http://www.ejection-history.org.uk/Aircraft_by_Type/B-47.htm
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Wasnt Tex the guy that rolled that prototype 707?
I always thought the B47 was a cool looking aeroplane! :aok
Seeing all this vintage SAC stuff ...I may have to go watch Dr Strangelove. :)
:airplane: Boeing launched the airline industry into the jet age with the first flight of the "Dash 80", as it was known at that time, on July 15th, 1954. There were some hydroplane boat races in the sound at Seattle Washington over the labor day weekend and Boeing and "Tex" thought that would be a good introduction to the general public of the coming Jet age. "Tex" felt like he needed to make a unforgettable impression on the thousands of people viewing the boat races, so he decided to "roll" the dash 80 and he did. A link to utube video of event below.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ra_khhzuFlE
"Tex" didn't lose his job over that, but the president of Boeing told him, face to face, no more of that kind of stuff, one crash and you put Boeing out of business!
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The B-47 tactics including toss bombing. Approach at low level, pull up for an Immelman releasing the weapon on the up line. The tactic was discontinued when they started having some wing failures. From what I've read on the B-47 it handled more like a fighter than a bomber.
A similar maneuver, the loft, was also used by Cold War fighters for nuke deliveries.
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Accompanied by my wife, we went to Republic Field to see the aircraft come and go for the Jones Beach airshow airshow 4 years ago. While there, we met an old RB-47 pilot named Tom. He was was 89 years old. His daughter had brought him to the show. He had flown B-17s in the SWPA, and later piloted B-29s.
He was most proud of flying the RB-47. He described the incredible difficulty and danger of flying at extreme altitude. He spoke of being chased by MiG-15s over Siberia. He mentioned his plane being fired on from a MiG. Unlike the MiG-15s, which the RB-47 could outrun, this MiG was able to nearly get into effective gun range. The MiG pilot opened fire. The RB-47 sustained no hits, and in response, the RB-47's radar aimed rear guns damaged the MiG, and it broke off. They made it safely back to Alaska, and later found out that they had encountered the MiG-17, some of which had been transferred to eastern Siberia to intercept the RB-47s.
Even more harrowing than interception for this old gentleman, was the descent from high altitude. Because the Stratojet flew very high, controlling speed in the descent was very difficult. The aircraft could very easily exceed maximum Mach, and suffer structural damage, including wing failure. It was a delicate balance between controlling speed by keeping the airframe loaded in order to induce drag, and yet not induce excessive g (which routinely flirted with the design limits). Several RB-47s had been lost by not controlling that balance.
We had a visiting B-17 at the show, flying paying passengers around for 30 minutes. I was chatting with the flight crew and mentioned the older gentleman. The crew asked to be introduced. I walked them over, and made the introductions. They talked about his missions flying B-17s, bombing Japanese bases. The pilot talked with his crew, and quite swiftly, the old warrior and his daughter were escorted to Yankee Lady. Along with a few paying passengers, they climbed aboard and started up. I documented the start-up through takeoff with my Canon, and sent photos to the daughter. Typically, they charge over $400 per passenger. Tom and his daughter flew as guests, and the guys from Yankee Lady were very happy to do it for him. When they returned, Tom was grinning ear to ear. His daughter said that she hadn't seen him this happy in many years.
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/27728_1466033416194_3340719_n.jpg)
(https://sphotos-a-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/27728_1466033496196_5198525_n.jpg)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/27728_1466033656200_8106264_n.jpg)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/27728_1466033296191_7658540_n.jpg)
(https://sphotos-a-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/27728_1466033616199_4672145_n.jpg)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/27728_1466033536197_2428502_n.jpg)
(https://sphotos-b-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/27728_1466033376193_8301955_n.jpg)
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A similar story to Tom's....
http://b-47.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Austin.pdf (http://b-47.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Austin.pdf)
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Accompanied by my wife, we went to Republic Field to see the aircraft come and go for the Jones Beach airshow airshow 4 years ago. While there, we met an old RB-47 pilot named Tom. He was was 89 years old. His daughter had brought him to the show. He had flown B-17s in the SWPA, and later piloted B-29s.
He was most proud of flying the RB-47. He described the incredible difficulty and danger of flying at extreme altitude. He spoke of being chased by MiG-15s over Siberia. He mentioned his plane being fired on from a MiG. Unlike the MiG-15s, which the RB-47 could outrun, this MiG was able to nearly get into effective gun range. The MiG pilot opened fire. The RB-47 sustained no hits, and in response, the RB-47's radar aimed rear guns damaged the MiG, and it broke off. They made it safely back to Alaska, and later found out that they had encountered the MiG-17, some of which had been transferred to eastern Siberia to intercept the RB-47s.
Even more harrowing than interception for this old gentleman, was the descent from high altitude. Because the Stratojet flew very high, controlling speed in the descent was very difficult. The aircraft could very easily exceed maximum Mach, and suffer structural damage, including wing failure. It was a delicate balance between controlling speed by keeping the airframe loaded in order to induce drag, and yet not induce excessive g (which routinely flirted with the design limits). Several RB-47s had been lost by not controlling that balance.
We had a visiting B-17 at the show, flying paying passengers around for 30 minutes. I was chatting with the flight crew and mentioned the older gentleman. The crew asked to be introduced. I walked them over, and made the introductions. They talked about his missions flying B-17s, bombing Japanese bases. The pilot talked with his crew, and quite swiftly, the old warrior and his daughter were escorted to Yankee Lady. Along with a few paying passengers, they climbed aboard and started up. I documented the start-up through takeoff with my Canon, and sent photos to the daughter. Typically, they charge over $400 per passenger. Tom and his daughter flew as guests, and the guys from Yankee Lady were very happy to do it for him. When they returned, Tom was grinning ear to ear. His daughter said that she hadn't seen him this happy in many years.
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/27728_1466033416194_3340719_n.jpg)
(https://sphotos-a-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/27728_1466033496196_5198525_n.jpg)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/27728_1466033656200_8106264_n.jpg)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/27728_1466033296191_7658540_n.jpg)
(https://sphotos-a-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/27728_1466033616199_4672145_n.jpg)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/27728_1466033536197_2428502_n.jpg)
(https://sphotos-b-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/27728_1466033376193_8301955_n.jpg)
:airplane: What a great Post! :salute I had heard many stories related to the RB-47's decending to lower altitudes and parts coming off, but still getting the bird down. This "coffin Corner" flying was dangous until more was learned about it through tests and field practice. Maybe you can post about the dangers of coffin corner flying, if not I will later! Thanks WW for a great post and outstanding Pic's.
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One of the cases when RB-47 was shot at:
"On 8 May 1954, after a top secret reconnaissance mission in the Kola Peninsula, a 4th Air Division 91 Strategic Reconnaissance Wing RB-47E reconnaissance aircraft, with Hal Austin at the controls, flew west from the Soviet Union. The RB-47E was flying at high altitude, out of reach of MiG-15s, but unknown to USAF intelligence some MiG-17s had been stationed in the area that were able to intercept the intruder. The RB-47E was chased by three Soviet MiG-17 fighters attempting to destroy the aircraft with their guns over Soviet and Finnish airspace. Although sustaining damage, the RB-47E managed to escape over Sweden back to its home base at RAF Fairford, Gloucestershire."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_B-47_Stratojet (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_B-47_Stratojet)
Gunfire was heard from ground by the Finnish military but there wasn't much Finnish Air Force could have done about the situation at the time even if they wanted to (not that they would have done much probably anyway even if they could have). :lol Dangerously weary Messerschmitts had been retired over a year earlier (not that they could have done a thing about it) and couple Vampires at Pori weren't exactly hot ships for the job either and the radar coverage of northern Finland...well not exactly up to par at the time. :lol
About six or so years ago there was an excellent article in FlyPast by one of the RB-47 pilots describing how close and a nerv wreaking job it was trying to get the plane off the ground from that short runway in UK, fully loaded and in hot weather. Amazing stuff.
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He was most proud of flying the RB-47.
WW, don't you know Walter Boyne? He was a 47 pilot, among other accomplishments. His accounts of 47 flying in "The Wild Blue" are among my favorite reads, particularly of the elder Brown brother's low pass with the RB-47.
- oldman
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As sleek as B-47's look and as fast and high as they flew, those B-17G photos just hijacked this thread for me.
What lines!
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WW, don't you know Walter Boyne? He was a 47 pilot, among other accomplishments. His accounts of 47 flying in "The Wild Blue" are among my favorite reads, particularly of the elder Brown brother's low pass with the RB-47.
- oldman
Yep, I've know Walt for years... Don't get to talk much these days.
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My grandfather would strongly disagree with you on the statement that no B-47s ever saw action. He served as a navigator on an RB-47 for nearly 15 years.
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Walter J Boyne is a great author. Clash of Wings is an excellent synopsis type book of air combat during WW2, a 400 ish page book that tries to cover everything, and does a good job at it.
The B47 seems like a B52 sized bomber with a fighter size cockpit stuck on top. It must have been a trip to sit up in that fighter cockpit with this massive airliner sized plane under and behind you. I've read about their low altitude penetration techniques, and pop up dive tosses as well. Quite an aircraft in its day, I would love to see one up close, or even fly sometime.
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For anyone visiting Seattle, WA, there is a B-47 at the Museum of Flight.
(http://www.museumofflight.org/files/imagecache/lightbox/Boeing-WB-47E-Stratojet-3_P2.jpg)
The Museum of Flight also has an outstanding WWII fighter collection.
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My grandfather would strongly disagree with you on the statement that no B-47s ever saw action. He served as a navigator on an RB-47 for nearly 15 years.
I know there was one incident in the early '60s when SAC had some kind of communications foul up, or NORAD did, and all the Bomber got the "go" signal and were taxi'ing down the runways before they were called back. Including many B-47s. I'd say that constitutes "action". Practice drills didnt happen like that. If the klaxons went off with no warning, and the planes were rolling down the taxi ways, then it was for real.
Accidental war was probably more of a danger back then then actual war was.
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My grandfathers plane was shot at on many different occasions by SAMs over Vietnam and Mig-15s IIRC. I think he even saw a few Mig-21s from time to time. I would have to confirm that with him to be sure.
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My grandfathers plane was shot at on many different occasions by SAMs over Vietnam and Mig-15s IIRC. I think he even saw a few Mig-21s from time to time. I would have to confirm that with him to be sure.
:airplane: I don't really know but the official Air Force records are the source for "saw no combat".
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:airplane: I don't really know but the official Air Force records are the source for "saw no combat".
I think a few airframes shot pictures in 'nam. Dont quote me on that but I know there was a recce version.
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I think a few airframes shot pictures in 'nam. Dont quote me on that but I know there was a recce version.
:airplane: You raise a good point and I am not sure at what point, when getting shot at, the Air Force or military considers that as "combat action"! I have always been under the impression that if a war was "declared", by the powers that be, then, if you were getting shot at, I guess that would qualify for "combat action"!
Personally, I doubt if any of those guys between WW2, and Korea, which were getting chased and shot at by the Russians, would argued the point one way or the other! As far as I am concerned, when flying over the Japan sea, at night, about 28K, and CFC is tracking two MIG-17's about 30 miles behind you and closing, and you know that you are real close to the 15 mile international limit off North Korea, and your rear end is so puckered that you couldn't drive a 20 penny nail in it with a 5 lb hammer, and you are praying that those two pilots also knew where the 15 mile limit was, that to me, sir was combat! LOL
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Anyone remember the old "Steve Canyon" TV show in the late 50's? He flew F-102s.
One episode was were a B-47 left it's patrol route, with no communication, and was heading towards Russia (Siberia I think). Steve Canyon was sent up to see what was wrong and saw both the pilot and copilot dead in their seats due to some decompression accident. He was ordered to shoot the B-47 down even though he couldn't confirm the whether the navigator was also dead.
Cool show.
63tb