Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Axis vs Allies => Topic started by: R4M on August 15, 2001, 03:53:00 PM
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Heya!
Well, we just put up a mission before, in the CT. 3 Ju88s escorted by 3 109F4s. We took off from A3 (in normandy ;)) to have enough time to win altitude while crossing the channel.
40 miles from South england we got bounced by a wonderfully timed and prepared group of spitfires. The fight was VERY fun, but still to be intercepted so away from our target (we were heading, of course, to London :)) is something that for the bomber crews is not really enjoyable.
We were discussing it online. To solve this the inflight radar bar should reach only 1 or 2 sectors away from the nearest friendly base. That way the bombers get a realistic...well, a decent ;) chance to reach their targets and drop their ordnance.
I would vote for a no-inflight-dar at all but to satisfy everyone I think that the best thing is to do it as I suggest.
Any chance to see it included? :)
(BTW <S> To the RAF fighters who intercepted us :))
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This motion is seconed, it was way to easy to slaughter the german attack ;)
Regards.
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Wouldn't that be a gameplay consession?
British radar operators could watch the German raids forming up over France during the BoB.
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I think we are talking INFLIGHT radar here Karnak, not the Tower radar...
Regards.
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I don't see the difference.
If you take away the inflight bar dar, which is supposed to simulate the information provided by ground control, you are effectively taking away the historical radar range.
In fact, more information should be provided to be historical.
Heading
Bearing
Altitude
Speed
Approximate numbers
A more precise location.
British fighters shouldn't be airborne, wasting precious fuel until there is a radar contact.
WWII ain't WWI.
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Karnak, I didn't think the RAF radar folks had the level of radar coverage that we got. I mean either side can see where the other is the moment they spawn on the runway. All you gotta do is watch the activity bars to figure
out where the attack is going. I agree that it should be more limited. RAM's idea isn't bad IMO. I would like to see some kinda of limitation, maybe activity bars only working within 1 or 2 sectors of a radar station.
Others have nmentioned tower only radar, basically what WB's has. That would be cool too.
Will the current code AH has accomodate something like this?
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"If you take away the inflight bar dar, which is supposed to simulate the information provided by ground control"
Says who? if you want information provided by the ground control you better take turns sitting in the tower... (or thats how it should be atleast imho)
Regards.
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Originally posted by Karnak:
Wouldn't that be a gameplay consession?
British radar operators could watch the German raids forming up over France during the BoB.
fine. Put a player in ground controller duty with access to both dot and bar dar, and turn off everything for the flying ppl.
We have an accurate GPS inflight hangar wich makes navigation a joke. Now dont try to tell me that the inflight bar radar is something near realistic...
The gameplay concession here IS TO HAVE THE INFLIGHT RADAR. Not to turn it off. Still I'll be happy with just 2 sectors of range for the radar just to reach a compromise.
'nuff said :)
[ 08-15-2001: Message edited by: R4M ]
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Ermm guys... in some areas of the euro map, 1 sector spans the WHOLE channel...
If the sectors could be shrunk, I love the idea of bar dar in flight ONLY within range of a friendly base, but the sectors would have to be 1/4-1/2 what they are now
SKurj
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Originally posted by SKurj:
Ermm guys... in some areas of the euro map, 1 sector spans the WHOLE channel...
If the sectors could be shrunk, I love the idea of bar dar in flight ONLY within range of a friendly base, but the sectors would have to be 1/4-1/2 what they are now
SKurj
True, but who says everyone wants to take the shortest route?
Wouldnt it be nice to setup a raid and sneak in the "back door"?
:)
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Originally posted by R4M:
Put a player in ground controller duty with access to both dot and bar dar, and turn off everything for the flying ppl.
WOW! You mean I can pay the monthly fee to watch the map and report aircraft positions for people?
AWESOME!!!
Err... no, not really.
-SW
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No ammo it will not.
I wish we could have "tower only" dar, but HT would have to change or add some flags to our current dar options.
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seems as if folks have not yet found out that there is NO DIFFERENCE betweeen in-flight or on the ground for the clip-bord ... what you see is what you see (at least the way it's programmed right now)
anyhow... there would be a possibility to have DOT dar only within a certain range of towers, but then you'd have dot dar again.. which is too accurate IMHO
just as food for thought:
This is what you can change as radar settings:
Friendly and enemy radar bars and or dots on / off
dot radar range (just works within xxxx yards of the next tower)
radar alt (shows no markers or dots below this alt)
vahicles markers on/off
and that's about it
DW6
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Absolutely not.
I agree with Karnak. This would just make the game "harder" for no good reason.
The inflight information simulates what we would be getting from radar via ground controllers. This is a game, not a "simulation of all parts of WWII no matter how boring". We don't require somebody to be the guy that starts your engine. We don't require somebody to simulate being the guy that pulls your wheel chocks. We don't simulate all the BS you really had to do just to start one of these planes. To force somebody to sit in the tower and simulate being a radar controller when we have a much simpler method to simulate the same level of pilot information is simply rediculous. If you want to spend your time doing that, feel free, but don't require somebody else to do it just so I can get a reasonable level of information while I'm in the cockpit. That's just silly.
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Leph, I've said that in as many forms as I possibly could.
They simply do not understand it or will not accept it.
Either way, it's a waste of your time to talk logic to them. They read it and try to pull some reverse psychology on you (which is easily refuted), and they just keep pushing it that their way is the "historic" way...
Anyway you slice it, they are right..... in their own minds.
-SW
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I see both of your points, Lepth and SW.
That is why from the start I've been proposing to limit radar range to 2 sectors. If we have to give up dar bar for dot dar, then so be it. Ground controllers gave directions to planes, no sectors.
I'd much rather see no dar at all but if we have to deal with it on, better to limit its range. Either we do this or dont expect any pilot to fly a Ju88 in an organized mission. And I would think that the same goes for the B26s.
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Howabout NOT binding the 1-2 sectors of radar bar to any tower or base... bind it to players position!!!
Would it not make sense that the air controllers provide only relevant information. They would not tell you that there are enemies in Scotland when you are defending London.
This way some sneak attacks could be possible. Some decoys would draw the defenders in one place and others would attack elsewhere a bit later. Airborne defenders could not see the enemies on dar far away and they could be informed of a larger strategic change only by other players in that other area, or by any player who is in tower.
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I think sneak attacks are possible now, you just have to stay under 500 ft.
There are barely enough ppl in the CA arena now to make it playable, monkey with the dar and I think this room would be a ghost town..
popeye, you and a chosen other few, may get enjoyment sitting in a tower and calling out vectors, but I don't think the majority would call that fun...real, maybe, fun after about 10 minutes ? - not I.
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Dot dar in-tower only would be a good addition to the Combat Theatre IMHO.
Nothing on your radar screen would better simulate the information given to you in WWII than a human being either on voice comms or typing in the text bar. Sorry guys, but each individual fighter just didn't have it's own radar scope in WWII.
I'm not saying "I want this now!", but it would be cool if HT could get around to it sometime in the not-so-distant future.
BTW, Lephturn, SW, Do you guys fly in the Combat Theatre? I haven't seen you in there yet.
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Originally posted by Eagler:
popeye, you and a chosen other few, may get enjoyment sitting in a tower and calling out vectors, but I don't think the majority would call that fun...real, maybe, fun after about 10 minutes ? - not I.
I flew the warbirds Historical Arena, and yes, most all pilots vectored the fighters when they were in the tower. I know this seems unimaginable to some of you, but it simply is a fact.
As far as the numbers. An HA isn't going to be as popular as a main arena. It's just thataway, we must make it possible for us more superior pilots to have more fun.
;)
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Originally posted by hblair:
BTW, Lephturn, SW, Do you guys fly in the Combat Theatre? I haven't seen you in there yet.
I flew it last week, the first night it came up.
I got 4 kills in a 109G2, Two Temps, 1 Typh and 1 SpitIX in a dogfight about 30 miles away from my base. In-flight Bar radar got me to the fight- otherwise I never would of found it.
I haven't flown since because... well... there's not been more than 6 people in there when I've been online.
-SW
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THere were about 25 in there when I logged in. What time do you fly?
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Total of 3 hours, 48 minutes this month. 1 hour last week, went into CT after that and flew for 2 hours when the CT first came up.
Last night flew from 7:30PM EST until 10:00PM EST... not more than 6 lost souls in the CT between those times.
-SW
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hmmm, there were about 25 in there less than one hour after you logged off.
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Originally posted by SWulfe:
Total of 3 hours, 48 minutes this month. 1 hour last week, went into CT after that and flew for 2 hours when the CT first came up.
Last night flew from 7:30PM EST until 10:00PM EST... not more than 6 lost souls in the CT between those times.
-SW
and Fester kept killin us all with his icons turned off :)
it's a great room, just need mo targets to distract the enemies so I have 1/2 a chance..
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well talking the hours I use to be in (Around 11pm-1am spanish hour) the normal numbers are between 24 and 12.
At the moment we did our (crushed :D) bomber mission we were 21 in the arena.
I dont know how is later, tho, I rarely log on after 1.30 AM my hour. But at the hours I fly, there is a pretty good presence of ppl in the CT. And I love it :)
[ 08-16-2001: Message edited by: R4M ]
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Some may think that sitting in the tower for a minute or two between flights reporting enemy position to country mates to be terribly boring. I don't. However, I do find stooging around looking for a fight, and chasing after dots that turn out to be friendly, terribly boring.
The reasons I suggest dot dar in the tower are:
The information that dot dar provides is more historically accurate than bar dar only.
It would make the CT more fun for those who would rather fight than search for a fight, bringing more people to the CT.
Limiting the dot dar to the tower only, would eliminate "dot SA".
Radar towers would become very valuable strat targets.
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Originally posted by popeye:
Some may think that sitting in the tower for a minute or two between flights reporting enemy position to country mates to be terribly boring. I don't. However, I do find stooging around looking for a fight, and chasing after dots that turn out to be friendly, terribly boring.
The reasons I suggest dot dar in the tower are:
The information that dot dar provides is more historically accurate than bar dar only.
It would make the CT more fun for those who would rather fight than search for a fight, bringing more people to the CT.
Limiting the dot dar to the tower only, would eliminate "dot SA".
Radar towers would become very valuable strat targets.
come on popeye, we know you'd have ur lap fired up with ur 2nd account viewing the dots all the time :)
Seriously, after giving it some thought, it doesn't sound like a bad idea. If it brings more targets, err ppl into CA, I'm for it.
I tried "friendly icons only" last night for a while. With Fester blowing me to pieces with his plane on this setting, I decided to give it a go. I think this would be an interesting alternative too.
What would it take to have these settings on a rotational basis? Every couple of days they switch for variety, announced here on the BBS and then in the splash banner when you sign on...
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I agree with popeye. I love to fly and fight, but sometimes I like to sit in the tower and direct fighters to intercepts bandits. I know I'm not alone in this, either. Back in the old WB HA, I did this a lot and noticed quite a few others pitching in to fill the gaps.
But I think even with in-flight DAR Bars and ground-only radar dots we could accomplish the same thing. Knowing something's in a grid is one thing, having someone tell you a flight of 4 is at your 4 o'clock, 5 miles away, at 15K (if we only had alt, too), and closing is quite another.
Just my two-cents worth ;)
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Well, there is a online community that absolutely loves to sit and watch radar terminals. The SATCO orginzation is about as robust as any sim group I know of. My guess is that people, many of them, would relish the concept of directing air combat. Perhaps if the idea were floated to them, AH would get more subscribers.
Just a humble opinion.
:D
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well, I'm glad other people enjoy sitting in the tower. I'd do it for about 1-2 minutes max, and only after being shot down.
2 sectors is 50 miles. That is more than enough to cover the narrowest part of the channel. You'd have to take those buffs up from farther up, and you'd still show up before you got over the channel (or within 50 miles of the nearest airbase you get close to.)
Just NOE it for now. we did with 4 B-26's and got to the base unmolested. Took some fire over the base tho, only 1 made it home.
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"there is a online community that absolutely loves to sit and watch radar terminals. The SATCO orginzation"
Heh. I never would have guessed. Amazing what is going on "out there". :)
It'd be cool if HTC had the resources to create a model of real WWII radar, and we could get some SATCO guys to run it for scenarios. Maybe version 3.00..... :)
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I'm not saying dot dar in the tower would be bad. I'm not saying you can't give folks more info if they are in the tower.
My only point was that we need some form of information while I'm in flight. Bar dar, dot dar, whatever... something. If you give me in-flight bar dar and dot dar in the tower... ok. Just don't take away my only means of vectoring to a fight while in the air and force me to rely on somebody else for that info, that's all.
And yes hblair, I have been, and plan to be, in the CT. I don't have very much time to fly this summer, as I'm very busy IRL. However, what time I do have to spend in arenas other than the TA will likely be in the CT. Especially once I can get a Jug in there. I'm not a big spitball fan, but hopefully we'll have the Hurri in there next time to start off. :)