Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: tuton25 on August 21, 2013, 08:12:49 AM
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After the last update I seem to put my Mossie 6 into unrecoverable flat spins when I snap role every once and while...
Is it just something I'm doing or did the flight model change???
I've tried counter rudder, I've tried popping flaps/gear, nothing seems to work in these situations....
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After a little bit of time in the TA I found it only happens in snap rolls to the left and at less than 10,000 ft....
I found that shutting down the #2 engine slows the spin down enough to push the nose down but it takes several thousand feet to do......
any faster ways to recover???
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With most planes, if you just turn your engine off (both in the mossi's case) then the nose will almost immediately drop down so you can recover. I think this method works in the mossi, haven't flown it recently though so I don't really remember if it does or not.
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No, the model has not changed.
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My P38L went into a flat spin like that about three weeks ago. Very odd indeed. Like you, I could not recover from the flat spin. I had time to punch up damage thinking I took a hit by a nontracer plane and just didn't hear it but all normal. Had not happened before or since.
No doubt, it started by a bad move on my part. I think I ended up with zero forward velocity after a vertical climb and ended up flat.
I may have accidentally selected the left or right engine at some point before or during the fall so throttle control may have only worked on one engine. That engine may have been the outer engine in the spin making matters much worse.
Could be too you got the dreaded, "Moving controls too Rapidly" lock out as you entered the stall or during. It would be hard to watch the text buffer in a flat spin.
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I had it happen a couple of times last nite in the FM2
Quik to blame but in the end it just is a simple case of no flight time and basic suckage
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Mossie has a nasty flatspin and can easily be overladen with fuel too, and I wouldn't recommend doing maneuvers in it too overladen (pop open the E6B and look at the fuel and weight differences, it's a ton of fuel).
PM my squadie Razor in the MAs if you see him online and have questions, he's got a ton of mossie fighting experience and is a very friendly guy.
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My P38L went into a flat spin like that about three weeks ago. Very odd indeed. Like you, I could not recover from the flat spin. I had time to punch up damage thinking I took a hit by a nontracer plane and just didn't hear it but all normal. Had not happened before or since.
No doubt, it started by a bad move on my part. I think I ended up with zero forward velocity after a vertical climb and ended up flat.
I may have accidentally selected the left or right engine at some point before or during the fall so throttle control may have only worked on one engine. That engine may have been the outer engine in the spin making matters much worse.
Could be too you got the dreaded, "Moving controls too Rapidly" lock out as you entered the stall or during. It would be hard to watch the text buffer in a flat spin.
Turn off your engines and use normal stall recovery procedures and try pushing the nose down while doing it, you should be able to get your nose down enough to recover.
ack-ack
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The flat spin was the signature move of the mosquito before the FM was redone 3 years ago. It can still enter this situation, but not as easily. This usually happens when overusing the rudder while stalling the plane. If combat trim is on, it really makes the situation much worse, because the speed drops to 0 and it will trim full nose up not letting you lower it into a forward dive.
The flat spin has you roughly leveled with the horizon, spinning very rapidly to the left. Chopping throttle, full right rudder and pushing the nose full forward will get you out of it if reaction was immediate. If the spin is fully developed it is extremely difficult to get out of. I died this was two days ago plunging 6 k feet unable to recover.
Additional measures are full forward trim, and cutting power to the right to engine, whilenleftbis at full. Combat trim off and a lot of forward trim are critical though.
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The flat spin was the signature move of the mosquito before the FM was redone 3 years ago. It can still enter this situation, but not as easily. This usually happens when overusing the rudder while stalling the plane. If combat trim is on, it really makes the situation much worse, because the speed drops to 0 and it will trim full nose up not letting you lower it into a forward dive.
The flat spin has you roughly leveled with the horizon, spinning very rapidly to the left. Chopping throttle, full right rudder and pushing the nose full forward will get you out of it if reaction was immediate. If the spin is fully developed it is extremely difficult to get out of. I died this was two days ago plunging 6 k feet unable to recover.
Additional measures are full forward trim, and cutting power to the right to engine, whilenleftbis at full. Combat trim off and a lot of forward trim are critical though.
Reminds me of a few months ago I was toying in a mossie and got in the middle of a nasty situation, so in desperation I forced the flatspin and then further accellerated the flat spin. Great idea for the moment, but after I had manualy trimmed nose down, rudder right, engines off, and flaps down I finally dropped my gear and that got it to recover (I think I accelerated it really badly and the only thing to of slowed it down enough to start recovering it was the gear drop).
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Can our CPU being busy vary our USB data time enough that we are at some rare times moving a control vector father then we think? Or more or less signal than we think? Or do the variables we perceive as our force axis get changed from patch to patch?
I watched from patch to patch recently I had to adjust the scaling on my Y-Axis after the new code is in force. Since the last major version 2.31 and including last night. Where my Y-Axis first slider was at 50% then a curve up to the right at 100%. I have lowered to 35% and last night to 20% starting with 2.31 and this last patch as my Y-Axis starting point to control Y-Axis input "over control" stalls and instantaneous nose response bounce corrections for shooting. It originally caused me to enter rapid wing stalls then not be able to hold the nose steady for gunnery.
DIView shows no problems with my Y-Axis. Having chopped 10k off the ends of the x, y axis in the jsm file calibration line to shorten my stick throw. It becomes quickly obvious if something changes after an update. I have not had to change the X-Axis scaling in some time, or the spit16 which I use to test the X-Axis control would be flipping on it's back. I used to use the IL2 for Y and Z axis control testing. The Ju87-G2 due to the heavy cannons under the wings is a much better test platform for those axis on full zoom.
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Turn off your engines and use normal stall recovery procedures and try pushing the nose down while doing it, you should be able to get your nose down enough to recover.
ack-ack
If you have to "Turn off your engines" than there is something wrong with the model. Shutting down the engines is not the normal procedure for the P38 spin recovery. Reducing power, holding opposite rudder and releasing any back pressure ( to lower the nose) should be all that is necessary.
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IRL the mossie had issues with the yaw axis,DH knew of the problem but to correct it would have required shutting down production.
If you look at the DH Hornet or sea hornet you will see the they added a fillet to the verticle stab. The way the mossie was manufactured didn't allow them to just add it on as they did with many other A/C.
As Bozon said the mossie before it's FM was fixed could swap ends at will and was relatively easy to recover,I think Bozon meant to say add down elevator trim instead of forward trim.He is correct that CT does not help it dials in full up elevator making negative elevator or nose down difficult at best,flaps just add to this so I usually retract them first thing.
Normally you don't need to shut engines down but if you cant stop the rotation with rudder then it's not a bad idea,dropping gear has always seemed to work for me when I cant stop the rotation with rudder alone.
The mossie pilots were warned to be careful with rudder inputs,it was said that the mossie would bite you if you weren't careful with rudder inputs.
I haven't flown the mossie a lot lately but I used to fly it all the time,I have a personal connection with the beast and it will always be a fav of mine.
:salute