Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Tracerfi on August 21, 2013, 09:13:00 AM
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That excessive Positive and Negative G Forces affect the pilot to help stop extreme stick stirring
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One of the coolest features I noticed in Cliffs of Dover was that there's a realism option that simulates the pilot's ability to multitask (because, y'know, two hands and Spitfires didn't have HOTAS). I've suggested a similar restriction for Aces High: Delays in activating certain functions to represent the fact that the pilot has to move his hands off another control to do it, preventing the player from abusing HOTAS to allow the plane to do things the pilot was incapable of IRL. IE, the historical Corsair couldn't drop flaps while the pilot was managing the throttle because both controls were operated by the same hand and are a good foot or more apart from each other. As compensation, allow the Corsair to set up to two notches flaps which will automatically drop and blow back up depending on airspeed as in the actual machine.
I think this will go a LONG way towards addressing complaints that some aircraft are overmodeled, when it's much closer to being the lack of PILOT restrictions that's the real issue.
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Are you asking for the "Please don't move your controls so rapidly" sensor turned up? This might chase new players out of the game day one, complaining they could never get off the ground because their controls would lock up the moment the torque kicked in and they newbishly attempted to franticly counter it. An unintended consequence.
If you redesigned the sensor, how would you tie the input forces to real life physics in the manner Hitech's physics attempts to emulate real life control inputs? Your opening complaint assumes he believes something is wrong to begin with and agrees with you.
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Are you asking for the "Please don't move your controls so rapidly" sensor turned up? This might chase new players out of the game day one, complaining they could never get off the ground because their controls would lock up the moment the torque kicked in and they newbishly attempted to franticly counter it. An unintended consequence.
If you redesigned the sensor, how would you tie the input forces to real life physics in the manner Hitech's physics attempts to emulate real life control inputs? Your opening complaint assumes he believes something is wrong to begin with and agrees with you.
no i am complaining about how you can endure a red out inducing roll and have the pilot fly on as if nothing happens
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I've suggested a similar restriction for Aces High: Delays in activating certain functions to represent the fact that the pilot has to move his hands off another control to do it, preventing the player from abusing HOTAS to allow the plane to do things the pilot was incapable of IRL. IE, the historical Corsair couldn't drop flaps while the pilot was managing the throttle because both controls were operated by the same hand and are a good foot or more apart from each other.
But you would have to get very plane-specific. The other day I was reading the manual for the P-38, my favorite plane. The throttle is controlled with the left hand, and the flaps with the right. In real life, I could very easily shove the throttles full forward, switch hands on the yoke, and less than half a second later drop the flaps to maneuvering position. And the dive flaps are controlled by a switch on the yoke.
Of course, in my case, I already have a realistic delay. My throttle is on the base of my Logitech joystick (left hand, right hand on stick), and I use the keyboard to control flaps (left hand again).
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HOTUS???
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HOTUS???
Hands On Throttle And Stick
Basically meaning that all of your controls are at your fingertips via buttons on the throttle and stick, which allows you to keep your hands on your throttle and stick 100% of the time. Something that modern fighters have but that WWII fighters most definitely did not have.
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Hands On Throttle And Stick
Basically meaning that all of your controls are at your fingertips via buttons on the throttle and stick, which allows you to keep your hands on your throttle and stick 100% of the time. Something that modern fighters have but that WWII fighters most definitely did not have.
Thanks karnak
:aok
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Ya know - much as I hate to admit it - this makes sense. And yes, it would have to be modeled on the various airplanes.
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This does make sense, however, think of it this way:
When you drive a car, your car, the car you've had for years, you know where the climate controls are and the radio controls, the gear shifter, the head light switches, the brake, the accelerator, the clutch (for those of us who know how or have manual clutch cars), you know the seat controls, the window controls, etc. Point being, you do this stuff without thinking and without paying much attention to how or when you do it. Pilots in WWII knew their aircraft and were able to extend their basic training of the aircraft far beyond in to a realm just like us car drivers have done. They were able to use the right hand for things the left hand were assigned to do. They were able to use the index and middle finger for lever A and the ring finger and pinky for lever B on the same hand simply by cocking their wrist to a certain angle. I'll even bet some pilots in some planes used their elbow to engage a lever under certain circumstances.
This wish makes sense, but I think it would require a lot of HTC's time that could be devoted elsewhere on more pressing things. If anything, maybe HTC could implement a delay for flaps, gear, dive flaps, etc???
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why hijack my wish was to model the pilot so he can not endure positive G rolls repeatedly with out having consequences
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I had 45 seconds of blackout the other day at 40,000 feet.
That's a pretty good consequence.
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I had 45 seconds of blackout the other day at 40,000 feet.
That's a pretty good consequence.
No i mean that pilots can preform rolls that would prevent them from flying the plane in real life because they would red out. My point is i have seen planes preform an upside down roll that would cause you to red out
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No i mean that pilots can preform rolls that would prevent them from flying the plane in real life because they would red out. My point is i have seen planes preform an upside down roll that would cause you to red out
What exactly are you saying, you feel they should red out sooner than -3 G's? Or is it that you feel if they spend too much time at -2.5 G's creeping near -3 every once in a while they should suffer some ill effects?
Wiley.
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What exactly are you saying, you feel they should red out sooner than -3 G's? Or is it that you feel if they spend too much time at -2.5 G's creeping near -3 every once in a while they should suffer some ill effects?
Wiley.
i guess my answer is yes, the reason i posted this is because i have seen player able to preform upside down barrel rolls and not have any effect on them
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upside down barrel roll? i think you have something confused there...look up barrel roll, inverted barrel roll, loop and outside loop.
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upside down barrel roll? i think you have something confused there...look up barrel roll, inverted barrel roll, loop and outside loop.
i am tired sorry cant think straight
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guess which 2 maneuvers have the lowest g force effects...
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Does some of this stem from the new fad in evasive maneuvers going on in the MA?
Where 5 years ago we were upset with the FW jockeys slamming their stick rapidly around the posts. Making the FW seem to perform a rapid spastic series of point position rolls that seemed to remove it as a targetable object from the game's perspective. This evolved to today with many more negative G nose push downs to the outside of the described roll ring included.
Today many players are doing the same but, slower and at some of the points stopping the roll and suddenly holding for up to 5 seconds, negative G by pushing the nose outside of the circle they describe with their point role. And again in effect it seems as long as the negative G nose push is held the target aircraft seems to not be a targetable object in the game. I've listened to many players on range complain of using their whole clip down to zero and never landing a hit shooting at the more accomplished with this negative G evasive. Like playing whack A mole shooting down a tunnel with it poking it's head out inside of the tunnel.
I never see random dispersion flyer rounds hit planes I'm chasing while they perform this maneuver. Odds would favor those rounds making contact over aimed rounds. Or the pilot himself randomly placing himself into the bullet stream like is too easy during similar players randomly messing around events with kill shooter. I have observed sometimes when I target the center of the roll area some of my rounds hitting the very tips of the cons wings on the outside of the roll area center. And we all know what I see in my monitor is not what the con sees in his.
It almost appears like they have F3 mode for their fighter in the MA which is not possible. Probably they are accomplished at holding their 6-view key and flying mentally reversed related to the con in their 6-view. An unintended consequence of our generous view system that rewards the ingenious.
This is becoming very popular in the MA. Some players are circumspect and only use a single well timed instance of pushing the nose down or out to force an overshoot. Others over use it with the whack A mole tunnel effect as their get out of jail card while running to ack or a hoard of friends. One might observe historically, any maneuver that saves your arse is ACM. My concern programmatically is that a blind window might have been accidentally discovered to being hit by your attackers bullets while your aircraft is in whack A mole tunnel mode. The long lost holy grail of all combat games. A Romulan cloaking mode to your enemies bullets.
So in theory if your con separated by the Internet for position pointers, spins rapidly on his engine line access, and you shoot, you may never hit him until he stops spinning. Including your random flyer dispersion rounds. Or, it requires rolling around a small diameter, rapid position pointer update ring as described by the whack A mole evasive maneuver. We can predict and shoot lead against a very large circle barrel role. Many new players just learning that ACM allow themselves to be killed by rolling too large of a circle.
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Does some of this stem from the new fad in evasive maneuvers going on in the MA?
Where 5 years ago we were upset with the FW jockeys slamming their stick rapidly around the posts. Making the FW seem to perform a rapid spastic series of point position rolls that seemed to remove it as a targetable object from the game's perspective. This evolved to today with many more negative G nose push downs to the outside of the described roll ring included.
Today many players are doing the same but, slower and at some of the points stopping the roll and suddenly holding for up to 5 seconds, negative G by pushing the nose outside of the circle they describe with their point role. And again in effect it seems as long as the negative G nose push is held the target aircraft seems to not be a targetable object in the game. I've listened to many players on range complain of using their whole clip down to zero and never landing a hit shooting at the more accomplished with this negative G evasive. Like playing whack A mole shooting down a tunnel with it poking it's head out inside of the tunnel.
I never see random dispersion flyer rounds hit planes I'm chasing while they perform this maneuver. Odds would favor those rounds making contact over aimed rounds. Or the pilot himself randomly placing himself into the bullet stream like is too easy during similar players randomly messing around events with kill shooter. I have observed sometimes when I target the center of the roll area some of my rounds hitting the very tips of the cons wings on the outside of the roll area center. And we all know what I see in my monitor is not what the con sees in his.
It almost appears like they have F3 mode for their fighter in the MA which is not possible. Probably they are accomplished at holding their 6-view key and flying mentally reversed related to the con in their 6-view. An unintended consequence of our generous view system that rewards the ingenious.
This is becoming very popular in the MA. Some players are circumspect and only use a single well timed instance of pushing the nose down or out to force an overshoot. Others over use it with the whack A mole tunnel effect as their get out of jail card while running to ack or a hoard of friends. One might observe historically, any maneuver that saves your arse is ACM. My concern programmatically is that a blind window might have been accidentally discovered to being hit by your attackers bullets while your aircraft is in whack A mole tunnel mode. The long lost holy grail of all combat games. A Romulan cloaking mode to your enemies bullets.
So in theory if your con separated by the Internet for position pointers, spins rapidly on his engine line access, and you shoot, you may never hit him until he stops spinning. Including your random flyer dispersion rounds. Or, it requires rolling around a small diameter, rapid position pointer update ring as described by the whack A mole evasive maneuver. We can predict and shoot lead against a very large circle barrel role. Many new players just learning that ACM allow themselves to be killed by rolling too large of a circle.
pretty much exactly why i posted this
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i guess my answer is yes, the reason i posted this is because i have seen player able to preform upside down barrel rolls and not have any effect on them
Umm, upside down manoeuvres are not detrimental unless the negative Gs coupled with duration of said Gs is high.
you are just being jinked a little,and that can get frustrating. Just lead the belly and splash them!
You should fight Agent360 when he does his odd inverted merge!! It messes with the mind just a tad, but it is possible and not a problem!!
:aok
JUGgler
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pretty much exactly why i posted this
You could have expounded more broadly rather than allow me to stick my big toe in it.......
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i guess my answer is yes, the reason i posted this is because i have seen player able to preform upside down barrel rolls and not have any effect on them
No i mean that pilots can preform rolls that would prevent them from flying the plane in real life because they would red out. My point is i have seen planes preform an upside down roll that would cause you to red out
PERFORM !!!!!! For goodness sake :bhead
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I blackout quite often in the P51 when performing abusive high G turns, I never heard about someone red out in a neg G manoeuvre.
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I blackout quite often in the P51 when performing abusive high G turns, I never heard about someone red out in a neg G manoeuvre.
I regularly red out under neg g, its just the effect of it in game is very short lived, and burst blood vessels in your melon aren't modeled :joystick:
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guess which 2 maneuvers have the lowest g force effects...
:airplane: :salute Slow roll and tail spin!
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Does some of this stem from the new fad in evasive maneuvers going on in the MA?
Where 5 years ago we were upset with the FW jockeys slamming their stick rapidly around the posts. Making the FW seem to perform a rapid spastic series of point position rolls that seemed to remove it as a targetable object from the game's perspective. This evolved to today with many more negative G nose push downs to the outside of the described roll ring included.
Today many players are doing the same but, slower and at some of the points stopping the roll and suddenly holding for up to 5 seconds, negative G by pushing the nose outside of the circle they describe with their point role. And again in effect it seems as long as the negative G nose push is held the target aircraft seems to not be a targetable object in the game. I've listened to many players on range complain of using their whole clip down to zero and never landing a hit shooting at the more accomplished with this negative G evasive. Like playing whack A mole shooting down a tunnel with it poking it's head out inside of the tunnel.
I never see random dispersion flyer rounds hit planes I'm chasing while they perform this maneuver. Odds would favor those rounds making contact over aimed rounds. Or the pilot himself randomly placing himself into the bullet stream like is too easy during similar players randomly messing around events with kill shooter. I have observed sometimes when I target the center of the roll area some of my rounds hitting the very tips of the cons wings on the outside of the roll area center. And we all know what I see in my monitor is not what the con sees in his.
It almost appears like they have F3 mode for their fighter in the MA which is not possible. Probably they are accomplished at holding their 6-view key and flying mentally reversed related to the con in their 6-view. An unintended consequence of our generous view system that rewards the ingenious.
This is becoming very popular in the MA. Some players are circumspect and only use a single well timed instance of pushing the nose down or out to force an overshoot. Others over use it with the whack A mole tunnel effect as their get out of jail card while running to ack or a hoard of friends. One might observe historically, any maneuver that saves your arse is ACM. My concern programmatically is that a blind window might have been accidentally discovered to being hit by your attackers bullets while your aircraft is in whack A mole tunnel mode. The long lost holy grail of all combat games. A Romulan cloaking mode to your enemies bullets.
So in theory if your con separated by the Internet for position pointers, spins rapidly on his engine line access, and you shoot, you may never hit him until he stops spinning. Including your random flyer dispersion rounds. Or, it requires rolling around a small diameter, rapid position pointer update ring as described by the whack A mole evasive maneuver. We can predict and shoot lead against a very large circle barrel role. Many new players just learning that ACM allow themselves to be killed by rolling too large of a circle.
I've tried this, when out of options, and when I do this maneuver (not exactly the way you describe it) I am not looking back simultaneously because I'm low and slow on the deck. This means I'm not rolling 360 but rather making turns slipping, sliding and doing the ballistic drop or maybe 1 to 2 negative Gs. I can assure you that this maneuvering does not make me invulnerable.
I've seen what you describe from my end as the one shooting, and attribute that to my own poor shooting. Likewise, when I get locked low and slow all out of options anyone who miss me simply fail to get guns on properly. Of course, occasionally that would give the random "stick stirrer" comment on PM or 200 (a channel I couldn't care less about because I never tune it).
Been playing AH since 2003 or so, and think the 'stick stirrer' myth is very much a myth.
Any aircraft flying with a negative G-loading is a very difficult target because they don't track like we're used to track targets. It takes a lot of experience and vary a lot with plane type because of specific design, wing loading, speed etc. It just demonstrates how difficult it can be to score on a moving and maneuvering target, while you are also maneuvering and the horizon can be any angle. It's just really really hard hitting a aircraft from dead 6 unless you happen to have your convergence set at just the correct distance.
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The exact behavior is what has classically induced warping at both warbirds and here since......well....the beginning.
What your opponent behind you sees is a plane that microwarps about in front you with the above mentioned point type rolls and flopping.
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Random dispersion should have more effect against the slow whack A Mole perceived tunnel then it does in our game at the short distances we are shooting.
So far as a throw in the towel and use the event to test with in the MA. I can't even send a stream of rounds through the center of the whack A mole tunnel event. More often nothing really happens or I get a random sparkle of all things at the very tip of a wing if at all.
I can only reference back to collisions, and proffer, that the actual position of the con during the event around the area described by tunnel's radii. Showcases, what I'm seeing, is not where he is, until he stops dancing around that tunnel. The extreme left or right random sparkle on of all things, the tip of the wing while I am adjusting for where I see where he is moving to next in the tunnel at very close range. If instead, all the con performs is turns left then right and so forth. You can time that and land rounds exactly where and when expected ahead of his next turn.
Wonder if this why I see so many airfield deackers and jabo slowly spinning their fighter as they egress. Even at point blank range, I can't hit them until they stop spinning, and I've never in my time seen auto ack hit them until they stopped spinning.
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all I hear is....hey I don't know how to fight..... so please make it more difficult for those that do.
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As infallible and a perfect rendition of the real world this game is. It is a collection of active 1111 0000, so can have windows as evidenced by the ongoing release of patches and an over worked programmer. Working in the IT industry for the last 20 years, I look at both sides of what I see a program showing me. Anything can be possible or nothing can be wrong as is the nature of those ones and zero's. I just don't fall back on anyone questioning the game shows they are lame at what you are good at. That's a bit juvenile, though this is an online piu, piu, piu kiddy game at it's core.
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I feel that the claims of "what you saw really didn't happen" I see so often here are played way too often.
If what the player sees is really that far from what the server or other players see, then there really is no reason to play any online multiplayer sim/game at all.
Personally, I feel that what you see as a player is darn close to what the other player sees.........EXCEPT in times of when ping latency is more than 300ms during a drastic change of direction.
If you are going straight and level at a constant speed, another player would be hard pressed to see any "warps" at all even with a momentary ping of over 1 second.
Now players inducing latency or flying with a known bad connection will surely be showing some strange plane behavior but you will only see it if the drop in connection happens when they have made a change of direction or speed.