Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: tuton25 on August 25, 2013, 09:41:14 AM
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Needs to be dropped to a 5 ENY and perked.....
I've heard it has the best KD of anything in the game (snailman help me out here) and is used very extensively....
A few more Flak platforms other than the Osti and M16 would round out the selection.....
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The WirbelGawd enjoys this thread.
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K/D of 1.48/1 is far from the best K/D ratio.
Tiger II's is 8.19/1.
Highest non-perk unit is the Fw190D-9 at 1.69/1.
This is ignoring gunners and ship gunners which don't work the same.
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WirbleWinds give me THE worst time. I think they should at least have a clip size so that they cannot lay down a continuous stream of bullets.
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I'm 11 and 4 vs the whirbel this tour .............winning! :banana:
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Needs to be dropped to a 5 ENY and perked.....
I've heard it has the best KD of anything in the game (snailman help me out here) and is used very extensively....
A few more Flak platforms other than the Osti and M16 would round out the selection.....
IT NEEDS...
It needs to based off of something you heard somewhere from someone???
Make an argument, what you've said is basically a statement and you expect us to infer what you mean.
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I've heard it has the best KD of anything in the game (snailman help me out here)
You need me to do a single click on the stats pages for you? :huh
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I'd like to see a greater variety in antiaircraft guns utilized. Currently the kills from Wirbelwind are 85%+ of all ground based, with the Ostwind carrying approximately 12% and the M16 carrying 500 kills total for July. The usage of the Wirbelwind reminds me of the C-hog days when that aircraft outnumbered the arena by such a large margin.
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there's already a wishlist thread for that http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,352657.0.html
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why would one choose the Osti over the Wirb...the Wirb has better visibility in the gunsight making it easier to track crossing targets. Lethality wise they are extremely close within 1.5k. because the Osti has poor barrel stability it offers little benefit in killing fighters that are diving on you and Bombers absorb the 37mm like its made of memory foam.
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I'd like to see a greater variety in antiaircraft guns utilized. Currently the kills from Wirbelwind are 85%+ of all ground based, with the Ostwind carrying approximately 12% and the M16 carrying 500 kills total for July. The usage of the Wirbelwind reminds me of the C-hog days when that aircraft outnumbered the arena by such a large margin.
Agreed.
The WW needs a light perk, and we need several new mobile AA platforms between it and the Osti and M16.
As mentioned, there're several wishlist threads about it.
IIRC, there have been multiple threads with lots of possibilities, including:
(http://www.tarrif.net/wwii/img/guides/flak20mm_6.jpg)
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8078/8307532929_a9f40a87ac_z.jpg)
(http://ww2.wwarii.com/var/albums/wwii-equipment/wwii-vehicles/allied_vehicles/us_vehicles_artillery/066%20-%20p004587.jpg?m=1354899527)
(http://olive-drab.com/images/id_aaa_40mm_07_700.jpg)
Lots of possibilities for mobile AA platforms that would provide the hitting power of the WW that wouldn't be able to shrug off multiple tank rounds and strafing attacks like the wirble seems to be able to at times.
And yes, the WW needs to have the firing delay modeled in to reflect the fact that crews had to manually reload the guns' magazines, and IRL they were not all four fired full auto 100% of the time. If tanks' main guns have to have reload times built in, so should mobile AA vehicles to reflect real world operation.
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why would one choose the Osti over the Wirb...
Id take on a half dozen wirbs, before id take on an LTAR in an osti.......
Id live longer taking on the wirbs....for sure :aok
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You need me to do a single click on the stats pages for you? :huh
If he needed more I'm sure he'd have asked someone faster than a snail.
why would one choose the Osti over the Wirb...the Wirb has better visibility in the gunsight making it easier to track crossing targets. Lethality wise they are extremely close within 1.5k. because the Osti has poor barrel stability it offers little benefit in killing fighters that are diving on you and Bombers absorb the 37mm like its made of memory foam.
Because the Osti has more hitting power and about 1K further reach than the Wirble. It's also more effective against tanks. Visibility is the same as soon as you raise your head out of the turret.
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Remember the carnage when the Wirbel was introduced to AH? With it's much faster turret, better views and mouse pointer gunsight? 27K kills to 14K deaths, almost 2 K/D ... :old:
Had 231 kills myself in the WW in that tour :lol
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This is ignoring gunners and ship gunners which don't work the same.
Ship gunners have a k/d of 16,332:1 so far this month. PERK THE SHIP GUNS!!!!!!
(But seriously, if we're looking at stats, if the Wirb were perked it would have the lowest k/d of any perked GV in the game. Of course, it might rise some DUE to being perked as people would be less likely to take one in bad situations.)
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I don't think the Wirblewind should be perked. I wouldn't mind a 5-8 ENY rating for it and a larger variety of AA vehicles to choose from though.
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Oh gawd.. :uhoh
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It doesn't need to be perked. What it needs, is to be seen before your wings fall off. I would gladly trade a 2.0k icon visibility range for the Wirble and Osti, in exchange for the absolute removal of icons for all non-troop carrying ground vehicles.
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In the game I tested the range at which the round for the wirbel and osti stop registering hit sprites on the offline target.
Wirbel - 1700yds
Osti - 2700yds
In real life the HE AA rounds for the guns in these flack are:
Wirbel FlaK 38 L / 112.5 - Effective ceiling 2200m (2405yds) Horizontal range 4800m
Osti FlaK 43 L / 89 - Effective ceiling 4785m (5232yds) Horizontal range 4800m
I've been hit at 3000ft by the flak 38 auto batteries at fields. At least the range is kind to us. 2400yds = 7200ft. Now that would make de-acking the new Aces High imperative if you ever wanted your vulching and free runway picks again. It would make the wirbel the worst nightmare in the game reaching up to 7000ft.
The wirbel more often hurts our pride and greifs our efforts but, eventually we bomb them or tanks slaughter them. It takes a hoard or bombers to shut down a field for capture most times. If the wirbel could reach up 7000ft and out 5200yds, we couldn't defend our fields from them with jabo or their guns. Bomber guys would always be just late having to climb to 8k and try to figure out where the wirbles were in the grass. So Hitech made a gamey compromise with the Flak 38 and Flak 43 so we could have an air&ground game together and not runway spawn ourselves into a slaughter by wirbels and osti never leaving their spawn.
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why would one choose the Osti over the Wirb...the Wirb has better visibility in the gunsight making it easier to track crossing targets. Lethality wise they are extremely close within 1.5k. because the Osti has poor barrel stability it offers little benefit in killing fighters that are diving on you and Bombers absorb the 37mm like its made of memory foam.
If something is within 3K and flying head on, it's in serious danger. If it's anywhere within 1.5k, it's not going to make it over your head.
One shot on a fighter, a bare handful on bombers, more effective against light armor (can even kill Panzers last I checked it), and the sheer intimidation factor of 37mm shells zipping by at 3k out.
I find it much more effective at maintaining some breathing space, since nobody even kinda slow wants to get close, and nobody wants to fly head on. Even if it's not as effective at knocking down a lot of aircraft if they decide to swarm you anyway.
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The effective kill range in-game for the Wirble is 1500 yards (4500 feet) and for the Osti 2500 yards (7500 feet). In close it's harder to hit with the Osti but anywhere within it's full range it will take anything down with a single hit. Wirbles generally need mutiple hits at shorter range but the four gun spray is more effective in close than the Osti's slower firing twin.
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Remember the carnage when the Wirbel was introduced to AH? With it's much faster turret, better views and mouse pointer gunsight? 27K kills to 14K deaths, almost 2 K/D ... :old:
Had 231 kills myself in the WW in that tour :lol
one of my first sorties with the WW was a airfield that was being vulched, had 14 kills before someone finally dropped an egg near me.
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Yeah when the WW was first intr'oed it was a Death Star. Now i think it has a good balance to it.
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Needs to be dropped to a 5 ENY and perked.....
I've heard it has the best KD of anything in the game (snailman help me out here) and is used very extensively....
A few more Flak platforms other than the Osti and M16 would round out the selection.....
Why is K/D even applicable for a Whirble? the metric should be "What is the K/D of vulching planes, when whirbles are present?" or " "what is the kill ratio of bomb tards when a whirble is up?"
My guess...Vulchers have a K/D of about 6:1, and Bomb tards about 10:1.
when they both drop below 1:1 then we should talk about perking whirbles
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It is ridiculously effective as an AA platform. And considering it's entire production run was about 3 1/2 units, the reasons for its inclusion are spurious at best. If it's going to be in the game then include the built in stoppage I.E the mag change :old:
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Put the high speed turret gear back in, to let it turn faster. :devil
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Why is K/D even applicable for a Whirble? the metric should be "What is the K/D of vulching planes, when whirbles are present?" or " "what is the kill ratio of bomb tards when a whirble is up?"
My guess...Vulchers have a K/D of about 6:1, and Bomb tards about 10:1.
when they both drop below 1:1 then we should talk about perking whirbles
I agree 100%.
I just looked at a dozen tours I flew and tanked, when I averaged in every 1000 kills in a Tank, I was bombed less than 10% of my deaths. In Fighters, I was shot down less than 6% by Wirbls. Now depending on the ground attack plane, my ratio goes up to 30% depending on the model. In A20s I tend to bomb over 20 tanks per death, where an IL-2 I am lucky to break 5 to 1.
Situational awareness helps, the average joe see's a plane trying to take off and tries to vulch it without considering the field might be covered in Wirbs. And not dogfighting below 2k pretty much makes you immune to wirbs.
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Ship gunners have a k/d of 16,332:1 so far this month. PERK THE SHIP GUNS!!!!!!
(But seriously, if we're looking at stats, if the Wirb were perked it would have the lowest k/d of any perked GV in the game. Of course, it might rise some DUE to being perked as people would be less likely to take one in bad situations.)
:airplane: Naysayers aren't going to like this, but, the Wirble damage threshold should be lowered!!! Hitting one from the side or rear with 20MM should kill it, but hard right now to "track" the darn thing!
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:airplane: Naysayers aren't going to like this, but, the Wirble damage threshold should be lowered!!! Hitting one from the side or rear with 20MM should kill it, but hard right now to "track" the darn thing!
Hitting the turret armor from the side, maybe. Hitting the hull, no. It is a Panzer IV hull and would laugh at 20mm cannons.
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Put the high speed turret gear back in, to let it turn faster. :devil
Yes, I missed out on that. :pray
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Any hits to the top of the turret should disable it.....
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_HCPanLbUnrc/TOXcMZ6BeZI/AAAAAAAADZM/qEMK1xTnSN4/s1600/Wirbelwind+GE165+3.jpg)
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Any hits to the top of the turret should disable it.....
And they do ... with frequents complains about it on CH 200 :)
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I turreted one with a Storch. A Wirb isn't foolproof, merely proof against idiots.
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It is ridiculously effective as an AA platform. And considering it's entire production run was about 3 1/2 units, the reasons for its inclusion are spurious at best. If it's going to be in the game then include the built in stoppage I.E the mag change :old:
Vulching was out of control before the WW was brought in.
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K/D of 1.48/1 is far from the best K/D ratio.
Tiger II's is 8.19/1.
Highest non-perk unit is the Fw190D-9 at 1.69/1.
This is ignoring gunners and ship gunners which don't work the same.
:banana: :airplane: :joystick:
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See Rule #4
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See Rule #4
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This sounds like the audience wants Hitech to change something to give them some way to counter the current modeling of the Wirbel.
How would the Hs 129's armor hold up to the Wirbel getting close enough for it's Mk101 with AP rounds to kill the turret? I have a gunsight for the Ju87-G2 that allows me to hit the turret at about 1200 offline because I can see it on the runway. I've had success in the game at that range. But, it was only if the wirbel was in the open and I could see it on full zoom from farther out. Otherwise trying to line up a long range shot to then peel off got me killed by the wirbel. I find very few players want to work with you to distract a wirbel either for fear of getting towered or they don't like helping someone else get kills.
Another thought is for the Hs.404 being allowed to load an AP belt specifically to attack armor like the turret of the wirble and osti as used in North Africa. And for lighter vehicles like the M3\16, LVT\PT and SDKfz.
So, it was decided in June 1942 to develop a composite rigid projectile capable of defeating the armour of German tanks at all combat ranges and be designed to fire from standard service fighter equipment. The design consisted of a duralumin envelope with a tungsten carbide core weighting 57.5 grams, the total weight of the projectile was around 96 grams. Penetration and ballistic trials were carried out in January 1943 and these left the stability of the projectiles in doubt but penetration was very good. Several modifications were made to improve the stability of the rounds, in May 1943 a trial was carried out against a Panzer Mk IIIH with wooden mock-ups for crew, the results were impressive as the crew were shot to pieces but the poor accuracy of the shot was still noticed.
http://www.wwiiequipment.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=96:hispano-20mm-armour-piercing-ammunition&catid=44:gunsrockets&Itemid=60
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I can't imagine the Hs129 would handle it any better than the Il-2. I suspect the Il-2 is actually the more durable of the two.
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I can't imagine the Hs129 would handle it any better than the Il-2. I suspect the Il-2 is actually the more durable of the two.
Depending. I imagine that the Il -2 would be more likely to suffer catastrophic damage, but the 129 would be more susceptible to pilot kills.
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What model 20mm cannon did it use and what was the mag capacity?
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Flak 38's. 20 +1 magazine per gun.
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What model 20mm cannon did it use and what was the mag capacity?
2-cm Flakvierling 38
20 rounds
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Ships guns have the best K/D in the game. It seems you cannot be killed in one. Yes wirbles should be perked.
Needs to be dropped to a 5 ENY and perked.....
I've heard it has the best KD of anything in the game (snailman help me out here) and is used very extensively....
A few more Flak platforms other than the Osti and M16 would round out the selection.....
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The HS-129 is pale in comparison of the IL-2. The Il-2 was entirely a tank with an aircraft engine, the HS-129 however did have 2300 lbs of armor around the cockpit, with two engines it could sustain some damage but consider it closer to an A20 then an IL-2.
HS-129 would lose its engines pretty easily, and it was not a very easy plane to fly - underpowered is the best reason for it. if a fighter shows up there is nothing it can do to survive.
I'm not sure a loaded 129 could fly on one engine if it got knocked out, however it did have 75mm of armor in the cockpit front, far better then an IL-2, however the IL-2 could soak damage where a HS-129 couldn't.
Basically opposite to what Tank-Ace says, I'd feel more comfortable not getting pilot wounds in an HS-129, but more likely to survive battle damage in an IL-2.
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What it needs, is to be seen before your wings fall off.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^THIS
It should be 1.5 or 2k for the wirble and osti forget the trade. I think it should be perked to reflect it's minuscule numbers in combat.It should also have a reload time
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I'm not sure a loaded 129 could fly on one engine if it got knocked out
It was barely able to fly with two engines, I doubt it would remain airborne on one for very long. Probably just long enough for the pilot to scream and crap his pants.
ack-ack
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It had 75MM of armor to the front cocpit :huh?!?! Good god!
Yeah, 129 would be more of the plane für when tut want to say "I'm killing you regardless of your opinion on the matter". I doubt 20mms to the front fuselage would do anything but tickle. Hell, it would be theoretically possible for it to survive a direct hit from an M4's AP round at longer range.
Did all models have such heavy armor? Would the mk 103 armed version be any lighter?
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It had 75MM of armor to the front cocpit :huh?!?! Good god!
Yeah, 129 would be more of the plane für when tut want to say "I'm killing you regardless of your opinion on the matter". I doubt 20mms to the front fuselage would do anything but tickle. Hell, it would be theoretically possible for it to survive a direct hit from an M4's AP round at longer range.
Did all models have such heavy armor? Would the mk 103 armed version be any lighter?
HS 129 would be a hanger queen with no real uses even in scenarios.....
A better option would be the Mosquito Mk. XVIII with a 57mm Cannon......
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It had 75MM of armor to the front cocpit :huh?!?! Good god!
Yeah, 129 would be more of the plane für when tut want to say "I'm killing you regardless of your opinion on the matter". I doubt 20mms to the front fuselage would do anything but tickle. Hell, it would be theoretically possible for it to survive a direct hit from an M4's AP round at longer range.
Did all models have such heavy armor? Would the mk 103 armed version be any lighter?
:rofl
A direct hit from the M4's AP round and the fuselage might "survive", but the engines and wings would keep going forwards without it. As to the 20mms to the front fuselage, that is a tiny cross section. The 20mm storm from the Wirbie would dewing it with ease.
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You know what I meant Karnak. I'm not saying it would be a survivable plane, but you'll have a hell of a tough time stopping one before it lobs a pumpkin at you. And an AP pumpkin no less.
If nothing else, it would be great for killing Tiger II's when the ordnance is down.
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See Rule #4
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Supporting GVs is fun, I like to do it in a Ju87G, no one ever crys bomb****. :D
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I think the wrible suffers from most gun platforms - they are to easy to aim from a computer platform versus the real world. Bullets are super accurate, zeros are always perfect, and people hedge some at the same time.
That being said, I have had fair luck in a fighter against them during base takes. I have worked out with wingmen to draw fire then roll in with .50s to turret them. After a few passes I can then sometimes kill them.
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Needs to be dropped to a 5 ENY and perked.....
I've heard it has the best KD of anything in the game (snailman help me out here) and is used very extensively....
A few more Flak platforms other than the Osti and M16 would round out the selection.....
Maybe change your tactics.
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See Rule #4
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See Rule #4
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See Rule #4
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As to your .ef to avoid death, you can do it, but it paints you as scum.
Good to know that. As I do .ef on a pure spawn battle (not camp) like the OZ 135/136 so that a A20 circling overherad can't "earn" (how ridiculous is that?) his kill, you should put me on ignore. You should be no means have to endure the presence of scum with 'low moral fibre'
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See Rule #4
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Is this Storch? :lol
Nope.
You can go say "Hello", if you miss him
http://www.flamewarriors.net/forum/index.php (http://www.flamewarriors.net/forum/index.php)
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See Rule #4
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Aces High Hierarchy
Fighters
Bombers
Jabos
Whale Crap
Gv'ers
Midway, Grayclif
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Aces High Hierarchy
Fighters
Bombers
Jabos
Whale Crap
Gv'ers
Midway, Grayclif
:rofl
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Aces High Hierarchy
Fighters
Jabos
Bombers
Whale Crap
Gv'ers
Midway, Grayclif
Fixed
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2-cm Flakvierling 38
20 rounds
Is that a comparable cannon to the ones used on 109's/190's etc?
Dammit Zoney, I like tanks! :lol
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See Rule #2
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See Rule #2
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Karnak, you would have more credibility on this issue if you did the following. Up a Tiger II in a contested area with active ground attack aircraft, and drive to the GV fight well away from the base. Try to leverage your super-GV. Do this a couple of times. Then do this with a Me262 a couple of times as well. Them come back here and report on the comparative results.
MH
We're not talking about Tiger IIs. We're talking about unperked AA vehicles.
I agree, and have posted suggested solutions, that perk GVs have issues.
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Aces High Hierarchy
Fighters
Bombers
Jabos
Whale Crap
Gv'ers
Midway, Grayclif
:rofl :lol :rofl :lol :aok
OMG I just snorted my drink out of my nose when I read this.
I agree with the posted hierarchy but I think you are being unfair to Gv'ers. There's a good 8 to 12 inches of white space that should be displayed between the "GV'er" and "Mid/Grey" entries that is not shown.
Likely you realized this but simply ran out of message buffer space. :D
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:rofl :lol :rofl :lol :aok
OMG I just snorted my drink out of my nose when I read this.
I agree with the posted hierarchy but I think you are being unfair to Gv'ers. There's a good 8 to 12 inches of white space that should be displayed between the "GV'er" and "Mid/Grey" entries that is not shown.
Likely you realized this but simply ran out of message buffer space. :D
You are correct. If I had put in the correct amount of space this subject would have jumped from page 5 to page 321 in one fell swoop.
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Drop JABO way down. They're just suicide anti-radar missiles now days.
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I try not to intervene with the ground-war, they do their thing, and I mind my own business, even flying in an 190F8.
Score-h0ring from a wirbie some few hundred yards in the take-off / land angles of a airfield, makes an exception to me.
The wish-list recently has this "Wirbie without tracers", really ??
We must have a perimeter system rendering this kind of behaviour obsolete.
Hiding some hundreds of yards off the field,waiting for take-offs/lands in a Wirbie makes a new low for the other serious GV'ers.
As if a field is undefended, and nobody is aware of it, and up to 3 wirbies waiting some hundreds of yards for shooting up anything that comes even close to their new icon-range, and you are not even warned about it, except that darn field flashing sign and a small radar bar for planes.
Flying off from another field is Ok as an alternative, but with some stupid maps you have to fly 2 full sectors to get back into the fight due to the closest 2 fields only a sector away are GV fields.
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Nope.
You can go say "Hello", if you miss him
http://www.flamewarriors.net/forum/index.php (http://www.flamewarriors.net/forum/index.php)
No, but I got a kick out of the forum. :rofl
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Score-h0ring from a wirbie some few hundred yards in the take-off / land angles of a airfield, makes an exception to me.
The wish-list recently has this "Wirbie without tracers", really ??
We must have a perimeter system rendering this kind of behaviour obsolete.
Hiding some hundreds of yards off the field,waiting for take-offs/lands in a Wirbie makes a new low for the other serious GV'ers.
From a tactical perspective, if your trying to take the field and you have the vh and odds down, it only makessense to put a few wirbs between the field and town to make it herder for the IL2s and stukas to get there...
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Is that a comparable cannon to the ones used on 109's/190's etc?
It's superior but, cannot be installed in a 109 and would have to be in a ventral pod in some cluncky way in a 190. It weighs about 1000lbs and the barrel alone is about 4ft, overall length about 13ft. It can handle 900m\s and faster rounds allowing it to reach out with distance. Where as the MG151\20 has a shorter barrel 3.5ft, overall length 6ft, weighs 92.5lbs and depending on the round 700-800 m\s.
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:aok
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See Rule #4
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See Rule #4
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See Rule #4
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See Rule #4
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See Rule #4
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I love this thread :)
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Maybe, but I wasn't referring to that... I actually didn't even spot it until now :D
:rofl :rofl :rofl
Just went back and reread and found it...... :rofl :rofl
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Probably because that's the way I'm usually typing myself :uhoh (ever read my messed up in game spellings?)
Yes, and it doesn't fit with your knowledge. Either type better, it get dumber.
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why would one choose the Osti over the Wirb...the Wirb has better visibility in the gunsight making it easier to track crossing targets. Lethality wise they are extremely close within 1.5k. because the Osti has poor barrel stability it offers little benefit in killing fighters that are diving on you and Bombers absorb the 37mm like its made of memory foam.
Takes some practice in the Ostwind & when you get it down it has a big advantage on the Wirbelwind. Only time it is not competitive from my perspective with the Wirbel is when the Ostwind is trying to fight off multiple diving targets at the same time.
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It is ridiculously effective as an AA platform. And considering it's entire production run was about 3 1/2 units, the reasons for its inclusion are spurious at best. If it's going to be in the game then include the built in stoppage I.E the mag change :old:
3 1/2? Lot more than that were made.
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:airplane: Naysayers aren't going to like this, but, the Wirble damage threshold should be lowered!!! Hitting one from the side or rear with 20MM should kill it, but hard right now to "track" the darn thing!
I have done testing offline with an m3 on a Wirbel & you can take out the turret with one well placed 50 cal. Granted I was right along side of it & not very realistic to normal game play being that close.
1 ping will do it though. :aok
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Takes some practice in the Ostwind & when you get it down it has a big advantage on the Wirbelwind. Only time it is not competitive from my perspective with the Wirbel is when the Ostwind is trying to fight off multiple diving targets at the same time.
Amen to what you said.
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See Rules #2, #4
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:lol :aok
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WirbleWinds give me THE worst time. I think they should at least have a clip size so that they cannot lay down a continuous stream of bullets.
The Wirble could always lay down a continuous stream of shells.
It could fire all four guns at the same time for the first 80 rounds that were in play then of course the reload in this example. Then the gunner could alternate two guns at a time as the reload took place on the non firing guns. I do understand what people are asking for in that right now we can blast away on all four guns when in reality that would only be good for the first 80 shells. Then the staggered firing should take place from that point on if the gunner/player wanted to do so.
Just to show you some things I have noticed & what I have found online in regards to the quad 20MM platform.
Here is a video of a single 20MM having the clip changed out. Pretty fast even though it is not in a real firing combat situation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugZhqz4AQUk&list=TLsKX2mZ4cpNE
If you look at old WWII photos of the crews firing these guns they always have their hands on the clip that is about to be changed. I think they would have them changed out faster than the guy above only because they were most likely better trained to do so.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Ostwind%20Wirbelwind/797px-Bundesarchiv_Bild_183-J08339_Ausbildung_an_der_Vierlings-Flak_zps530d6e08.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/Ostwind%20Wirbelwind/797px-Bundesarchiv_Bild_183-J08339_Ausbildung_an_der_Vierlings-Flak_zps530d6e08.jpg.html)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Ostwind%20Wirbelwind/weapon_flak38_31_zpsf510fa43.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/Ostwind%20Wirbelwind/weapon_flak38_31_zpsf510fa43.jpg.html)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Ostwind%20Wirbelwind/weapon_flak38_24_zps4ecc6e3b.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/Ostwind%20Wirbelwind/weapon_flak38_24_zps4ecc6e3b.jpg.html)
The best answer is to get rid of the telescopic sight & put on the correct sight as it had no zoom ability. This will make the gunners job a bit more realistic & a bit harder.
This is the actual sight that should be on the Wirbel. You will notice there are two one for ground targets & one for air targets.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Ostwind%20Wirbelwind/05751_g_zpsba68d552.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/Ostwind%20Wirbelwind/05751_g_zpsba68d552.jpg.html)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Ostwind%20Wirbelwind/38flack_zpsf077f466.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/Ostwind%20Wirbelwind/38flack_zpsf077f466.jpg.html)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Ostwind%20Wirbelwind/22wl2_zpsa01f9ad0.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/Ostwind%20Wirbelwind/22wl2_zpsa01f9ad0.jpg.html)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Ostwind%20Wirbelwind/aa-sight-30-38_zps12e7682b.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/Ostwind%20Wirbelwind/aa-sight-30-38_zps12e7682b.jpg.html)
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This whole thing is too funny.
I get killed by wirbs a lot, and I do my fair share dishing it back. Realistic or not, it's getting the job done that it exists in the game for. Is it too effective? Maps keep rolling along...Bases keep getting captured...
They are easily turreted, and they die to bombs even easier. What's the real reason with the discontent? What would perking it do? How much of a perk?
It functions just fine, ain't broke don't fix it - jus cause someone ran to one to have their 6 cleared and now the cleared is angry with the clearee.
Many things aren't realistic, is there any example of a ftr flying through his own base's hangar to out maneuver his enemy. I doubt it, should we not be able to fly through hangars...?
It's a game and it's more than a game, but there must be certain aspects of it to keep it balanced and have the ability to find a fair fight. Is the Star Wars like ack that bursts at you in quad groups at 8.5k realistic? It has its function of keeping you vulturing ppl though doesn't it?
I still love the thread, who is wirblegawd anyway?
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"My degree wasn't in English, even though my literary agent is appreciative of what I can churn out. She and I are making good money off of my books."
What books ?
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loading supplies on a gv should have a massive delay, just like rearming
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3 1/2? Lot more than that were made.
Yes.........I know........I was being ironic :huh
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loading supplies on a gv should have a massive delay, just like rearming
You mean 30 seconds?
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You mean 30 seconds?
yes
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From this video, the effective range of our 20mm is five and a half thousand feet. 1833yds opposed to our 1700yds.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEItGE0SqCE
There is also a view through a optical projector sight for the flak that I can barely make out the reticle. Looks 150 to 200Mil in diameter. Resembles the HTC optical sight in our Wirbel. It is a Flakvisier but, I'm not sure the version.
In this film the optical projected sight reticle for the 3.7 is a cross to 100Mil with a 20Mil opening at the center.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcI0kuARYSk
This film shows a hybrid solution to aiming the single barrel 20MM flak. Glass plate with a painted on reticle with a sliding metal grid in front of it to line up on. Linealvisier 21.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFSgAtuNq4E
As you look at some of these films it is apparent the rate of fire is so slow with these flack that the reloader can make it look like the guns have unlimited ammo until he runs out of reloads.
So the image of the reticle for the 3.7 film is the Flakvisier 35 which was used on 20mm and 3,7. I need to find the reticle for the Flakvisier 38/40.
Lone Sentry has an excellent manual on German AA. I still think Hitech is being nice to us.
http://www.lonesentry.com/manuals/german_aa/index.html
Lone sentry explanation of how to use to 30\38 pivoting ring pendulum sight.
http://www.lonesentry.com/articles/ttt09/german-aa-sight-30-38.html
From a gunner on a 4 gun 2cm. the reticle is the same as the 3,7mm films cross hair. The elevation and traverse are controlled by a range officer being fed speed and range info. Still need to hunt down the large ring reticle from the 2cm film.
http://www.microsofttranslator.com/bv.aspx?from=&to=en&a=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pust-norden.de%2FFriJa.htm
Anyone interested, this scribd US Army manual explains the gunsights you see in the films.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/112423072/1943-TM-E9-228-2-cm-Flakvierling-38-German-20-mm-Antiaicraft-Gun-Four-Barreled-Mount
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We really need to modify the Wirb and at least make it realistic. Granted we don't have any realism in aces like gun jams or other things, but the Wirb had limitations just like everything else a fair compromise would be nice like a magazine of only 80 rounds then it requires a few seconds to reload.
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From this video, the effective range of our 20mm is five and a half thousand feet. 1833yds opposed to our 1700yds.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEItGE0SqCE
There is also a view through a optical projector sight for the flak that I can barely make out the reticle. Looks 150 to 200Mil in diameter. Resembles the HTC optical sight in our Wirbel. It is a Flakvisier but, I'm not sure the version.
In this film the optical projected sight reticle for the 3.7 is a cross to 100Mil with a 20Mil opening at the center.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcI0kuARYSk
This film shows a hybrid solution to aiming the single barrel 20MM flak. Glass plate with a painted on reticle with a sliding metal grid in front of it to line up on. Linealvisier 21.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFSgAtuNq4E
As you look at some of these films it is apparent the rate of fire is so slow with these flack that the reloader can make it look like the guns have unlimited ammo until he runs out of reloads.
So the image of the reticle for the 3.7 film is the Flakvisier 35 which was used on 20mm and 3,7. I need to find the reticle for the Flakvisier 38/40.
Lone Sentry has an excellent manual on German AA. I still think Hitech is being nice to us.
http://www.lonesentry.com/manuals/german_aa/index.html
Lone sentry explanation of how to use to 30\38 pivoting ring pendulum sight.
http://www.lonesentry.com/articles/ttt09/german-aa-sight-30-38.html
From a gunner on a 4 gun 2cm. the reticle is the same as the 3,7mm films cross hair. The elevation and traverse are controlled by a range officer being fed speed and range info. Still need to hunt down the large ring reticle from the 2cm film.
http://www.microsofttranslator.com/bv.aspx?from=&to=en&a=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pust-norden.de%2FFriJa.htm
Anyone interested, this scribd US Army manual explains the gunsights you see in the films.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/112423072/1943-TM-E9-228-2-cm-Flakvierling-38-German-20-mm-Antiaicraft-Gun-Four-Barreled-Mount
I would say your right as far as HTC being nice to us. No Wirbel I have found pictures of has the 38/40 site none. There is a reason for that they were found to be unreliable & they moved away from them to the simple wire framed sites.
The 38/40 sites & all other electronic type sites were fazed off of conventional flack batteries & only a few early flack Panzers had them & due to vibration & unreliability the wire frame was the best way to go. The prototype Wirbel had the wire frame & every one after it.
Look at all the photos of Wirbelwinds that sights can be seen on they are all the same this type.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Ostwind%20Wirbelwind/img125_zpsafed77d6.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/Ostwind%20Wirbelwind/img125_zpsafed77d6.jpg.html)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Ostwind%20Wirbelwind/img129_zps5d73c9c4.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/Ostwind%20Wirbelwind/img129_zps5d73c9c4.jpg.html)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Ostwind%20Wirbelwind/img124_zpsad49ae93.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/Ostwind%20Wirbelwind/img124_zpsad49ae93.jpg.html)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Ostwind%20Wirbelwind/img189_zpsdc22e210.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/Ostwind%20Wirbelwind/img189_zpsdc22e210.jpg.html)
The Ostwind is a little different the one we have in game is the prototype that was put in to battle. The pictures of it show some kind of scope to date I have not found out what type it is. After the prototype they changed the turret & the wire frame sight was put on this also. No known photos exist to the best of my knowledge showing any of the production Ostwinds showing the wire frame site. This is the one that is believed to be on them.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Ostwind%20Wirbelwind/37mmsight_zpsa3354f65.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/Ostwind%20Wirbelwind/37mmsight_zpsa3354f65.jpg.html)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Ostwind%20Wirbelwind/flaktower_zps2f750668.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/Ostwind%20Wirbelwind/flaktower_zps2f750668.jpg.html)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Ostwind%20Wirbelwind/37_mm_plk__vz___43_N____eskoslovensk__voj_k__1955_____21_zps256ada81.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/Ostwind%20Wirbelwind/37_mm_plk__vz___43_N____eskoslovensk__voj_k__1955_____21_zps256ada81.jpg.html)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Ostwind%20Wirbelwind/Bundesarchiv_Bild_101I-301-1957-32_Nordfrankreich_Zwillings-Flak_zpsd0f03308.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/Ostwind%20Wirbelwind/Bundesarchiv_Bild_101I-301-1957-32_Nordfrankreich_Zwillings-Flak_zpsd0f03308.jpg.html)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Ostwind%20Wirbelwind/d69f2e85-9ce1-415b-950a-640250c99178_zps92f8225d.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/Ostwind%20Wirbelwind/d69f2e85-9ce1-415b-950a-640250c99178_zps92f8225d.jpg.html)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Ostwind%20Wirbelwind/6e12d306-5cf0-4b9c-b8b0-8c68f27a8b3d_zps3a7597fd.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/Ostwind%20Wirbelwind/6e12d306-5cf0-4b9c-b8b0-8c68f27a8b3d_zps3a7597fd.jpg.html)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Ostwind%20Wirbelwind/c48b1f77-2f0d-4d13-80bc-5fc1b5a56a36_zpse1db7a13.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/Ostwind%20Wirbelwind/c48b1f77-2f0d-4d13-80bc-5fc1b5a56a36_zpse1db7a13.jpg.html)
Prototype Ostwind.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Ostwind%20Wirbelwind/img134_zpsa1d03efc.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/Ostwind%20Wirbelwind/img134_zpsa1d03efc.jpg.html)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Ostwind%20Wirbelwind/img138_zps56dcd580.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/Ostwind%20Wirbelwind/img138_zps56dcd580.jpg.html)
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Lusche getting Rule #4 violations?
Un-possible!!!
Fess up, who pulled the string to stop the train?
Nice info, Lyric!! :aok