Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Muzzy on August 28, 2013, 01:41:58 PM
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Has anyone done an opinion article on the Yak 3 yet? I tried searching the board but came up empty. Either way, I'd like to know what people think about the plane and its capabilities. I found the stats on climb rate and speed, but how does the plane stack up on turn radius? If anyone has any good insights, whether positive or negative, I would love to hear what you have to say. I might compile all the information into an article for the AH wiki.
-Muzzy
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All around good fighter other than the ammo in my opinion
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- Speed good but not outstanding, it is not runner. All Mustang, Dora, 109K, Spit14 and La7 are faster and would outrun it - but yet faster most of other popular turning planes like Spits NiKs Ki-84 etc.
- Climb great - and not require WEP
- Turning - is good (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,352944.0.html) - its turns better that all the 5 I mentioned - and comparable to this of Spit14.
- Acceleration - is fine (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,352267.0.html) but not outstanding.
- Roll rate - excellent
- Firepower - quite low but enough to bring kills back - what is important it does not have convergence issues and has good ballistics - which allows you to do long range sniper shots on running targets.
- Energy - keeps it very well - and gains it back fast.
- Flight duration - quite short, but you don't have to fly on Military power all the time.
- Visibility - excellent
- Handling - excellent - very easy plane to fly, no spin tendency and easily recoverable - forgiving
What is important is actually the combination of all factors that make this plane so great: it has excellent handling, very good performance - and balance between them.
I LOVE this plane
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I'd like to know what people think about the plane and its capabilities.
Russian Spitfire. I was really eager to try it out. Then I flew one and was able to beat someone I should never be able to beat (hey! I heard that!). Haven't flown it since.
- oldman
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The Yak-3 is not as fast as the Yak 9T, but is a bit better in the knife fight. With that being said it is still a very fast plane and it is not to be underestimated when speeds are a factor.
In terms of the dog fight, it is very dangerous. It does it all very well in terms of maneuvers. It can turn, roll, climb, and accelerate with the best of everything. Above all, I think it is a very stable platform, it is very forgiving. Its biggest downfall is its lack of firepower: the single 20mm and dual .50 cals offer minimal firepower with most of that being contributed to the lack of ammo. In a 1v1 it is fine. When in the goal is to go in and clear the skies of enemy fighter(s), you have better have countrymen along side of you or perfect aim. It simply does not have the ammo to stand too long and duke it out with enemy fighters.
It is a air to air fighter, nothing else. It does not have long legs for escort duty, it does not have abundant enough firepower to hunt and destroy bombers, it does not carry the ammo nor the ordnance to hammer ground targets. There are always exceptions to the rule, but generally speaking keep the Yak-3 as a short term knife fighter (or be able to retreat and rearm/refuel on a regular basis).
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The Yak-3 is not as fast as the Yak 9T, but is a bit better in the knife fight.
You meant to write Yak-9U, not T, I suppose :)
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That was my assessment as well. Other than ammo load, the Yak has strong stats in everything. I'd just come back from a two-year sabbatical from playing and was trying to recover my skills in the K4. After getting only 3 assists in a 3 hour dogfight I was getting pretty frustrated. Then I saw Tull flying the new Yak and I thought I would try it out. It has everything a pure fighter pilot could ask for with the only marginal handicap of a short clip, and you can pretty much fly it any way you like. It's very forgiving and it is durable enough so you can survive a mistake long enough to RTB. I understand the Soviets put 3 cannons on this bird after the war and that gun loadout is actually lighter in weight than the model we currently fly. That would have been absolutely deadly.
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You meant to write Yak-9U, not T, I suppose :)
gah. By bad, I did mean the Yak-9U. The Yak-9T is somewhat of a slug comparatively. Speaking of which, I'm surprised HTC spent the effort on the -7B when they could have just added the rockets to the -9T.
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I understand the Soviets put 3 cannons on this bird after the war and that gun loadout is actually lighter in weight than the model we currently fly. That would have been absolutely deadly.
That would be insta-perk worthy.
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Sounds like it's perk-worthy already. It's the ultimate UFO, basically.
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I find its energy retention a tad suspicious, but aside from that, it's a good little fighter. Not great, but still worth looking at in the hanger. Certainly not perk worthy; it would need to be about 20mph faster, and have about twice the ammo to be perk worthy.
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How is the durability? It should be fairly fragile and easy to shoot down, from the Normandie-Niemen experience. They loved the manueverability upgrade from moving from Yak-1 to Yak-3, but they hated how even the lightest of fire could cripple the plane. They did not want to use them for ground attack, especially.
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How is the durability? It should be fairly fragile and easy to shoot down, from the Normandie-Niemen experience. They loved the manueverability upgrade from moving from Yak-1 to Yak-3, but they hated how even the lightest of fire could cripple the plane. They did not want to use them for ground attack, especially.
Durability is about average from what I've seen. I fly it a little, only about 22 kills since it was released. However, it's such a dominating fighter (IMHO), I've yet to take so much as a ping....
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From what I've seen, it's a bit below average. .30 cal his aren't something you can just casually brush off, pings from .50s are worrisome. And even a quarter decent burst of 20mms seems to be near catastrophic.
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It's more durable than a Spitfire but not quite as durable as American Iron. Basically, you can survive one or two hits before you drop, at least in my experience.
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It's more durable than a Spitfire but not quite as durable as American Iron. Basically, you can survive one or two hits before you drop, at least in my experience.
But it is a smaller target then a spit too. Most snapshots I gave would only allow a few pings to land and mostly those were spread over the frame. But because it is so small any good hit is a bad thing.
TIP
WING TIP
FUELFUEL ELEV
MOTOR/PILOT/BODY/TAIL
FUELFUEL ELEV
WING TIP
TIP
There is not much in the way of none critical areas as its all packed so tight.
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I suppose size might have something to do with it, although I know that I've taken my share of hard hits and survived. I've had my engine messed up and a couple of times I've lost a wing and kept it in the air. (Landing on 1 wing is kind of impossible though.) Between the speed, small size, reasonable agility and at least some durability, the Yak can be hard to bring down. In terms of overall performance, I'd say it's the equal or near-equal (but not the better) of most of the late-war non-perked rides in the game.
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But it is a smaller target then a spit too. Most snapshots I gave would only allow a few pings to land and mostly those were spread over the frame. But because it is so small any good hit is a bad thing.
TIP
WING TIP
FUELFUEL ELEV
MOTOR/PILOT/BODY/TAIL
FUELFUEL ELEV
WING TIP
TIP
There is not much in the way of none critical areas as its all packed so tight.
This only means that the damage is spread over the various components instead of concentrated in destroying one. They are much more durable that I would have expected. On quite a few occasions they survived flying through the quad-hispano stream from a mossie, shedding a part or two, but continue flying. I attribute that to the above mentioned effect that spreads the damage, as well as being so small that part of the scatter pattern of the cannons just miss it by a hair.
As to how it flies, I seriously suspect something is wrong with its modeling at high AoA. First time I rolled it I pulled up into a steep climb after take off - it wouldn't slow down, so I kept pulling and completed a loop (more like an inverted gamma shape) going WTF? :confused: I cannot prove it until I do some testing, but that takes time. 3500 feet per minute climb at 80 mph (70 mph below best climb speed, on the back side of the power curve) with full left rudder and stall buzzer howling is very suspicious. I may be wrong.
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Below 5k it'll do 4100-4300 ft/sec but it starts to fall off after that. Based on a quick look, the K4 and Spit XIV will beat it coming off the deck. The La7 and Ki-84 are marginally better, but they both need WEP to do it.
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Slow her down and the engine torque will make her snap roll and fall.
On the deck they die, with alt they recover quickly and continue fight like nothin happened :bhead
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Right, so in a nutshell:
Flying in:
-Keep it under 13k alt.
-Keep it fast
-Make your shots count.
-Know who to out-run and who to out-turn.
Flying against:
-Try to slow the Yak
-If defensive, keep moving and don't give him anything like an easy dead six shot, even out to 400 the Yak can be deadly. Try to get him to burn ammo.
I'd appreciate any additional points. :)
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Right, so in a nutshell:
Flying in:
-Keep it under 13k alt.
-Keep it fast
-Make your shots count.
-Know who to out-run and who to out-turn.
Flying against:
-Try to slow the Yak
-If defensive, keep moving and don't give him anything like an easy dead six shot, even out to 400 the Yak can be deadly. Try to get him to burn ammo.
I'd appreciate any additional points. :)
Also I use mitsu's sound pack an when the yak 3 fires at me it sounds like one shot from the 37mil :uhoh
Anyone know why that is?
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Maybe it thinks the Yak is a P-39? They kinda look alike if you squint really really hard. :D
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Right, so in a nutshell:
Flying in:
-Keep it under 13k alt.
-Keep it fast
-Make your shots count.
-Know who to out-run and who to out-turn.
Careful of Ki-84s, and early model 109s, along with the obvious Spitfire.
Avoid ack at any costs, since you're fairly well boned of you take even a hit or two.
Flying against:
-Try to slow the Yak
-If defensive, keep moving and don't give him anything like an easy dead six shot, even out to 400 the Yak can be deadly. Try to get him to burn ammo.
I'd appreciate any additional points. :)
*shrugs*??
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This only means that the damage is spread over the various components instead of concentrated in destroying one. They are much more durable that I would have expected. On quite a few occasions they survived flying through the quad-hispano stream from a mossie, shedding a part or two, but continue flying. I attribute that to the above mentioned effect that spreads the damage, as well as being so small that part of the scatter pattern of the cannons just miss it by a hair.
As to how it flies, I seriously suspect something is wrong with its modeling at high AoA. First time I rolled it I pulled up into a steep climb after take off - it wouldn't slow down, so I kept pulling and completed a loop (more like an inverted gamma shape) going WTF? :confused: I cannot prove it until I do some testing, but that takes time. 3500 feet per minute climb at 80 mph (70 mph below best climb speed, on the back side of the power curve) with full left rudder and stall buzzer howling is very suspicious. I may be wrong.
I tried some slow speed climbing in the yak last week and found that it fell off to the right as soon as speed dropped below 110 mph. I tried to keep the climb around 4000 fpm while doing this,after reading your post, but was unable to hold the nose up once speed was in the 100 mph range.
:salute
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Right, so in a nutshell:
Flying in:
-Keep it under 13k alt.
-Keep it fast
-Make your shots count.
-Know who to out-run and who to out-turn.
Flying against:
-Try to slow the Yak
-If defensive, keep moving and don't give him anything like an easy dead six shot, even out to 400 the Yak can be deadly. Try to get him to burn ammo.
I'd appreciate any additional points. :)
A few things...
The Yak-3 has a max speed of 400 mph at 12,500 feet. However, at 15k it still does 393 mph. I've climbed up to 20k to go get a reluctant 109K-4. Performance isn't best up there, but it is still very dangerous.
Keeping it fast depends on circumstances. It turns well at low speeds, but do try to get the fight turning right, where torque isn't an issue. Too fast is a bigger issue than too slow, not unlike a 109 in that respect.
Roll rate at 300 mph is excellent. At 350 mph it may be as good as a 190... Maybe better as the 190's roll rate falls off quick above 350 mph.
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Is there some way to figure out the sustained turn radius in-game?
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I have found them to be easy to kill.....its the 5 friendlies with them that make it difficult. :rofl
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When I was writing about the lack of bomb load, I wanted to say, "In Soviet Russia, Fighters don't bomb...Bombers fight! (see IL-2)"
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I have found them to be easy to kill.....its the 5 friendlies with them that make it difficult. :rofl
Pffft that's right up the ki84's alley :neener:
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yak3 does not seem to be able to dive with a 190a/f-series, they always pull up when I only getting warmed up at 500-ish.
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Is there some way to figure out the sustained turn radius in-game?
I did recently: http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,352944.0.html
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yak3 does not seem to be able to dive with a 190a/f-series, they always pull up when I only getting warmed up at 500-ish.
bad things happen to yaks past 550 :rofl
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I tried some slow speed climbing in the yak last week and found that it fell off to the right as soon as speed dropped below 110 mph. I tried to keep the climb around 4000 fpm while doing this,after reading your post, but was unable to hold the nose up once speed was in the 100 mph range.
The auto-climb (auto-speed in practice) will not hold it below 100-110 mph. Flying it manually and with lots of rudder input I can hold it at 80mph. At this point it still rockets upwards at ~3500 fpm and no where near stalling speed. The limiting factor is the torque and under 80 mph it will slowly roll over to the right even with full rudder, aileron and trim deflections. This is no where near its stalling speed - this is its minimum controlling speed.
Since its specific excess power at 80 mph is ridiculous, I supposed it is possible to fly it slower by reducing throttle enough to decrease the torque but still leave plenty of power to keep it airborne and climbing. This requires some testing.
Another, more fundamental test to do is to put the engine to idle and lower RPM to the minimum (minimize prop drag). Then put the plane in auto-speed with enough alt to stabilize and mark the rate of decent when crossing some altitude. Then climb and do this again at a different speed, mapping the range from minimum sustained speed to say 180 or 200 mph. The things to look for is the curve of rate-of-decent vs. speed. A particularly interesting point is the minimum speed at which a steady decent can be maintained and the rate of decent at that point.
Then do it for another plane or two for comparison, preferably with a similar wing loading.
Prop drag may be a nuisance in interpreting the results though.
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Nice work, Artik! The stats seem to imply the Yak-3 is at least competitive with late war planes in the turning department. The one thing I would request would be to check and see how it turns to the right, since its prop spins in the other direction.
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Nice work, Artik! The stats seem to imply the Yak-3 is at least competitive with late war planes in the turning department. The one thing I would request would be to check and see how it turns to the right, since its prop spins in the other direction.
For what I know, there shouldn't be significant difference in sustained turn ratio to right or left. The only difference is how it is easy to handle the aircraft.
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Cool. Thanks for the info! :aok
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The auto-climb (auto-speed in practice) will not hold it below 100-110 mph. Flying it manually and with lots of rudder input I can hold it at 80mph. At this point it still rockets upwards at ~3500 fpm and no where near stalling speed. The limiting factor is the torque and under 80 mph it will slowly roll over to the right even with full rudder, aileron and trim deflections. This is no where near its stalling speed - this is its minimum controlling speed.
Since its specific excess power at 80 mph is ridiculous, I supposed it is possible to fly it slower by reducing throttle enough to decrease the torque but still leave plenty of power to keep it airborne and climbing. This requires some testing.
Another, more fundamental test to do is to put the engine to idle and lower RPM to the minimum (minimize prop drag). Then put the plane in auto-speed with enough alt to stabilize and mark the rate of decent when crossing some altitude. Then climb and do this again at a different speed, mapping the range from minimum sustained speed to say 180 or 200 mph. The things to look for is the curve of rate-of-decent vs. speed. A particularly interesting point is the minimum speed at which a steady decent can be maintained and the rate of decent at that point.
Then do it for another plane or two for comparison, preferably with a similar wing loading.
Prop drag may be a nuisance in interpreting the results though.
I wasn't using auto anything I was flying it manually. I only did the short test because of reading your post,I did some similar tests on the brew when it first came out.
Now I was at 4k when I did my test so that may have had an affect on it but I just could get anything near what you said.
Now the Yak 7 does have a strange handling characteristic in the stall but I couldn't find anything I thought was strange about the yak 3.
:salute
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I had the opertunity to fly a Yak-3 a couple of years ago, this one had no armor, and no guns. It also had an Alison, the only thing I can say is they are cheaper tan a 51 and alot more fun. With a shorter wingspan and almost the same power it was a blast. The only drawback that I had was visibility, because the cockpit is way behind the wing you are blind from short final to shutdown. A lot of S turns while taxiing, and hot starts are a pain in the butt if you miss it the first time, also there is not a lot of fuel on board. Other than that it was a dream to fly, dollar for dollar I would rather have the Yak than the 51.
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I had the opertunity to fly a Yak-3 a couple of years ago, this one had no armor, and no guns. It also had an Alison, the only thing I can say is they are cheaper tan a 51 and alot more fun. With a shorter wingspan and almost the same power it was a blast. The only drawback that I had was visibility, because the cockpit is way behind the wing you are blind from short final to shutdown. A lot of S turns while taxiing, and hot starts are a pain in the butt if you miss it the first time, also there is not a lot of fuel on board. Other than that it was a dream to fly, dollar for dollar I would rather have the Yak than the 51.
I imagine that the later Yak-9 (9T and -9U) series vision was even worse... The cockpit was displaced aft just over a foot to fit the 37mm gun. The -9U retained that change.
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For what I know, there shouldn't be significant difference in sustained turn ratio to right or left. The only difference is how it is easy to handle the aircraft.
And, that is a very important difference. If you're flying and fighting right on the edge, battling torque is not a good thing. One mistake and you're likely to be in trouble. Good right, young man....
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Okay, going for the easy kill...
You'd think a Yak would pull to the left... :bolt:
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I know it's 99% due to pilot skill of those I encountered but from the stand point of fighting a Yak-3, I don't find them to be any particular challenge at all. I find fighting them to be much easier than fighting against a Spitfire VIII or an IX.
ack-ack
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So far the deadliest pilots in the Yak3 work the vertical constantly making you follow up and down while not bleeding E in turns. At some point you either over shoot to a barrel role going vertical. Or loose them diving as they suddenly change vector and rocket away.
The ones who try to play a horizontal scissors and turning fight wind up on the deck and finally shot to pieces if they cannot gain separation to reset their alt.
A few more tours and a resident Yak3 uber ace will become obvious. At which point a new conversation about his tactics and methods will probably be started. As of yet I've heard nothing from our past 9U aces on the new Yaks. Personally I keep ramming people in the Yak3 just as I gain a firing solution. Between 225 and 325 it's deceptive just how fast it gains speed. That small speed burst runs me right up my cons kester. I can use the 9U with no problems.
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Is anyone thinking that the Yak 9U offers a wee bit more in stability with a small enough loss in maneuverability to hardly notice? The more I tinkered with the stall speeds, rudder kicks/tail slides, roll rates, etc, at different speeds the more I felt like the 9U was just as much of a knife fighter as the -3.
I think a better judge would be to see how the 9U and -3 measure up to the Spit16 in a chase.
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Is anyone thinking that the Yak 9U offers a wee bit more in stability with a small enough loss in maneuverability to hardly notice? The more I tinkered with the stall speeds, rudder kicks/tail slides, roll rates, etc, at different speeds the more I felt like the 9U was just as much of a knife fighter as the -3.
I think a better judge would be to see how the 9U and -3 measure up to the Spit16 in a chase.
I think that the Yak-9U cannot compete equally with the Yak-3 Co-E, Co-alt. The -9U will have to use its speed advantage to extend and reset. It simply cannot afford to get into a prolonged maneuver fight with the Yak-3. It will lose.
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I haven't flown the 9U long enough to form an accurate opinion, but I think the -3 is more responsive. It feels like it corners better and has a better roll rate as well. The 9U feels heavier and a bit more sluggish, even though it is a bit faster.
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When I was writing about the lack of bomb load, I wanted to say, "In Soviet Russia, Fighters don't bomb...Bombers fight! (see IL-2)"
In America, fighters bomb. In Soviet Russia, bombers fight!
I don't have any national brand loyalty for aircraft, but between the La-7, the 9U and now the 3, I am going to have to put a couple of big red stars on the side of my computer.
Plus three small white ones for a certain F4 driver :lol
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I really like the Yak-3, I just wish its acceleration was a little better, I would give anything to have two 20mms with 120 rounds and thats it.
Its a fun bird to fly, nothing exceptional but it does handle quite well, I just wish my aim was a little better.
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I really like the Yak-3, I just wish its acceleration was a little better, I would give anything to have two 20mms with 120 rounds and thats it.
Its a fun bird to fly, nothing exceptional but it does handle quite well, I just wish my aim was a little better.
Agreed. Acceleration is slow, but once she gets up to speed its hard to slow her down at times. Being I have to get in REAL close in to hit anything, I fould it annoying when I flew up the six of a few opponents my first few times in it. :lol
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I don't find acceleration to be an issue. Maybe against K4's and the like, but without having actually tested it, she feels above average.
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I don't find acceleration to be an issue. Maybe against K4's and the like, but without having actually tested it, she feels above average.
Just feels slow getting to speed to me but i admit its not a turtle. It holds on to e quite well....thus my initial unfortunate habit of running up opponents bums while flying it. :frown:
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I don't find acceleration to be an issue. Maybe against K4's and the like, but without having actually tested it, she feels above average.
I would say acceleration is about average, but not exceptional. It took me about a a minute and twenty seconds to reach maximum speed after a climb out to about 10k or so, which is not great, but the Yak 3 also dives well, so you can pick up speed that way if need be. The hard part is catching up to a con after you've pulled a reversal.
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Its acceleration appears slower down near stall speed compared to 109s and Spitfires. After a few fights with them it seems they get up and get going a bit better from a real slow start. That was just an observation and I could be wrong. I have to get in close to hit anything but those Russian guns clobber the target.
"A bandit on your six is better than no bandit at all"
Pipz
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Its acceleration appears slower down near stall speed compared to 109s and Spitfires. After a few fights with them it seems they get up and get going a bit better from a real slow start. That was just an observation and I could be wrong. I have to get in close to hit anything but those Russian guns clobber the target.
"A bandit on your six is better than no bandit at all"
Pipz
:rofl :aok
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Its acceleration appears slower down near stall speed compared to 109s and Spitfires. After a few fights with them it seems they get up and get going a bit better from a real slow start. That was just an observation and I could be wrong. I have to get in close to hit anything but those Russian guns clobber the target.
"A bandit on your six is better than no bandit at all"
Pipz
Yeah its certainly slower, I've been in a few good fights the past few days, once i get near stall speed if I don't have the the gun angle I pretty much know I am dead - even if I do get the kill the Yak-3 simply cannot get up and run.
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Not exactly Yak 3, but I have to say WTFG to HTC and crew on the remodeling of the Yak 9U and 9T.... flew the 9T for the first time this past weekend since the remodel, and can't pry myself out of it. I know there wasn't a change to the flight model, at least I don't remember that being mentioned as a change, but WOW :O I'm in love all over again.
It might be a loooooong time before I get the La5FN back out of the hanger......
:aok
:cheers: to HTC & Co.
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I find the yak 3 is great in a low alt furball.
1 Throttle is one of your main control surfaces
2 Once you get on the six of bandit wait to fire till he starts turning. Turn inside and fire. I find it is easier to kill them this way.
3 The 3 excelles in the scissors. Verical or horizontal.
4 Last of all cut throttle when 600 800 out if you are clossing fast and wait to fire til 200 out. Aim at the wing roots and you will get the kill..
PS dont fire for more than 1.5 seconds at a time