Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: John Galt on August 30, 2013, 01:05:45 PM
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My girlfriend will be finished school after 7 years , and on the payments we figure we can swing monthly. it will only take us just shy of 20 years to pay off her's and my student loans. Now it is on to the stage of getting her into a position as a nurse practioner, instead of a RN. I am hoping after she finds a job more along the lines of her qualifications we can cut the time in half on paying the loans. I am not looking forward to paying so long on a debt like that.
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Why is getting yourself into debt anyone's concern?
You were forced to get educated?
I have worked for 40 years and have no coin I could only buy a $3000 gaming pc with cash, it was awful :old:
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I wasn't forced to get educated but I thought it to be a good idea to be competitve in the world... I don't have enough swag to work at Mcdonalds.
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Also Zach if you are so worried about it being anyone's concern why post?
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Make sure you combine all the loans in to ONE, that will reduce the % you pay. Also, get the payments on a automatic withdrawal every month, that too will lower your % point.
I think I put my $20,000 out for 30 years. Ditto for my wife's.
Also, not be be morbid but do NOT combine those loans and do NOT pay them off early. First, the % you pay is as low as it gets. Any money you'd apply towards paying off student loans early should go towards a house, car, etc, payment. Secondly, if you die before the loan is paid off the debt is forgiven. No need to combine with your spouse and force her to carry it on (and vise-versa) due to an early death.
I was on the 7 year plane for the 4 year degree. I spent extra time in college writing papers on WWII, seriously. I enjoyed the 400+ level courses when there were only 3-4 of us in class. :D
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My college education will be free.
Go Army!
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I'm busy accumulating a large accounts receivable balance from my three kids for all their school fees.
$18k per year for two of them and $40k a year for the third.
It's a big number.
They are 9, 12 and 14. It's going to be a REALLY big number by the time they are done. None of them are anywhere near college.
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My girlfriend will be finished school after 7 years , and on the payments we figure we can swing monthly. it will only take us just shy of 20 years to pay off her's and my student loans. Now it is on to the stage of getting her into a position as a nurse practioner, instead of a RN. I am hoping after she finds a job more along the lines of her qualifications we can cut the time in half on paying the loans. I am not looking forward to paying so long on a debt like that.
you do know that as your career progresses, you will be making more money that may allow you to pay things off differently? College just gives you a start. Now its up to you. You loan will be getting smaller but your salary should be going up.
Mine more than tripled after 6 years out of school.
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Also Zach if you are so worried about it being anyone's concern why post?
Bit of advice for free, eat bake beans,get a cheap car or use the bus and don't go on holiday, your debt will be paid off in three years :old:
next bit of advice is $35 dollars a hour.
Whats up with working at Mcdonalds?
Anyone who works is up standing :old:
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$35 an hour is a really nice job in America Zack lol. I wouldn't know what to think if I landed that. The place where I put in my resume for my career path tops out at $28/hour with great benefits. Starting pay is 19.25/hour.
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7 years to become a nurse? Would've thought 7 years was high even for a doctor?
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Until the rest of west follows Scotland's lead and offers government paid college education, notice I'm NOT including room and board, just like we do with elementary and high school today, we will continue to loose our place in the the competitive world of the future.
Yeah, okay tax payers, you may chime in with the same argument as the citizens of early America's past, "Why should tax payers pay for educating the poor?"
Educated people generate much more tax every year of their lives.
The state spends to get more back.
The poor also have an equal right to education and the taxpayers make a profit on the deal.
When it comes time for you to retire, where do you think your social security payments are going to come from. Certainly not from the uneducated folks standing on the street corner because they saw no hope of getting a higher education.
Sorry, my hopeless personal crusade.
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Scotland has free education because English taxes pay for it :old:
Its how we steal their oil :old:
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7 years to become a nurse? Would've thought 7 years was high even for a doctor?
Nurse practitioner. Pretty diverse degree to have.
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Scotland has free education because English taxes pay for it :old:
Its how we steal their oil :old:
Wise of them to use the money that way.
How do you explain the astronomical number of engineers graduating in China and India?
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Part of the problem is the huge pressure on college-bound teens to enroll in a top Ivy League school. There's still the air of thinking that if you don't go into a good/expensive school, you won't be able to get a job. Problem is so many teens are pressured into paying for expensive colleges that they end up in debt for 20 years +. It was true a few decades ago where education differed greatly between community college and Ivy League, but now, even the community college teaches just as well as rather expensive school.
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Now do what your daddy did, get a job. Thats why you went to school, right? :old:
If it takes your entire working years to pay off your education, maybe you choose the wrong carear path. :old:
Good Luck, the fun is just beginning. :banana:
:cheers:
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$35 an hour is a really nice job in America Zack lol. I wouldn't know what to think if I landed that. The place where I put in my resume for my career path tops out at $28/hour with great benefits. Starting pay is 19.25/hour.
Thats 40gs to start. with 14 hours per working day and two days per week OFF (and benefits), to start.
A smart guy could pay off a 100k debt in 4 years with that much income. :old:
at 58k per year you can buy a house, have kids, and retire when your hip gives out. Not a bad gig for a human. :old:
at 72k per year you can buy things you dont need or give money to your spoiled kids. :old:
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Two words: Dave Ramsey
Give his radio show a call, then enroll in one of his classes, then get his books. If you're really talking about that much and that long it'll be worth it.
Yes he makes money off you, and no he doesn't try hide the fact that he does. Ask your local/favorite financial planner if they like Dave, I'd be shocked if they say they don't like his ideas. You won't agree with everything, take what you want leave out what you don't.
Good luck.
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Now do what your daddy did, get a job. Thats why you went to school, right? :old:
If it takes your entire working years to pay off your education, maybe you choose the wrong carear path. :old:
Good Luck, the fun is just beginning. :banana:
:cheers:
Right Nat, it's all because I don't want to pay my tuition, hourly fees plus those extra 'fees', assessments and loans. That's why I take the stance I do: All those 'fees' for Higher Education should be free. An education by the way I don't and won't need at my age.
hehe, Yep Nat, I want you keep working and paying into Social Security. I know, with so many able bodied people making minimum wage they're not much help with the burden, but hey, they must be stupid anyway, right?
So yeah, keep paying in. I'm over sixty five and I do appreciate your efforts to shore up the fund while all those stupid people loaf. I really really do, but it's a shame you can't get some help with the bill. Oh, and unless public policy changes come in the very near future, I'm sorry, but it looks like there might not be anything left in the kitty when it comes your turn to retire. Perhaps it will kick in again by the time you reach your declining years.
As for me having fun, I'm having one of the best times of my life. I hope you and the OP can say the same when you get to be my age.
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I highly recommend attending a Dave Ramsey "financial peace university" course. They're usually taught for free at various places including churches or other open private facilities, and all you pay for is the workbook and study materials ($80-$120ish depending on specials). The course is 100% gimmick free, based on sound financial advice and a realistic common sense approach to finances.
Dave's students on AVERAGE are debt free including their home mortgage in only 7 years, without relying on a single gimmick or investment trick. If you follow his step by step approach, there is no reason you couldn't retire early as a millionaire. The only sacrifice is having to live cheap for a couple of years and follow a budget, after which you basically end up with more money than you can realistically spend.
His whole "thing" is that you live on a tight budget until you are debt free, pay cash for everything you want to do from then on, and along the way you accumulate wealth until you can't help but start giving it away to charity. Thing is - it works, without a single trick or gimmick. You can change your entire life by simply living on the tightest budget imaginable until you have zero consumer debt except your house, usually only a couple of years even for people with big student loans. One caller to his show today paid off $95,000 in 26 months, including $60,000 in student loans. His approach WORKS, mostly because you track every dollar in and out of your pocket so every single dollar goes to a pre-planned purpose. Do that for a few years and suddenly you have a lot of extra cash and no debt.
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I'm busy accumulating a large accounts receivable balance from my three kids for all their school fees.
$18k per year for two of them and $40k a year for the third.
It's a big number.
They are 9, 12 and 14. It's going to be a REALLY big number by the time they are done. None of them are anywhere near college.
Curvy that's insane, I'm squeaking about $30 each a day for day care for the three little ones. Lucky they only go once or twice a week.
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Thats 40gs to start. with 14 hours per working day and two days per week OFF (and benefits), to start.
A smart guy could pay off a 100k debt in 4 years with that much income. :old:
at 58k per year you can buy a house, have kids, and retire when your hip gives out. Not a bad gig for a human. :old:
at 72k per year you can buy things you dont need or give money to your spoiled kids. :old:
really, please do explain how making 40k a year will allow you to pay 100k in 4 years, I mean without getting a second job that makes another 40k, and taking care of such needless things as food, gas, rent, insurance...
semp
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really, please do explain how making 40k a year will allow you to pay 100k in 4 years, I mean without getting a second job that makes another 40k, and taking care of such needless things as food, gas, rent, insurance...
semp
probably followed eagls free seminar that cost 120$ but they are free :lol
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I highly recommend attending a Dave Ramsey "financial peace university" course. They're usually taught for free at various places including churches or other open private facilities, and all you pay for is the workbook and study materials ($80-$120ish depending on specials). The course is 100% gimmick free, based on sound financial advice and a realistic common sense approach to finances.
Dave's students on AVERAGE are debt free including their home mortgage in only 7 years, without relying on a single gimmick or investment trick. If you follow his step by step approach, there is no reason you couldn't retire early as a millionaire. The only sacrifice is having to live cheap for a couple of years and follow a budget, after which you basically end up with more money than you can realistically spend.
His whole "thing" is that you live on a tight budget until you are debt free, pay cash for everything you want to do from then on, and along the way you accumulate wealth until you can't help but start giving it away to charity. Thing is - it works, without a single trick or gimmick. You can change your entire life by simply living on the tightest budget imaginable until you have zero consumer debt except your house, usually only a couple of years even for people with big student loans. One caller to his show today paid off $95,000 in 26 months, including $60,000 in student loans. His approach WORKS, mostly because you track every dollar in and out of your pocket so every single dollar goes to a pre-planned purpose. Do that for a few years and suddenly you have a lot of extra cash and no debt.
Absolutely sound advice but oh so hard to follow. Dave would not permit a $500 joystick for Aces High. :old:
Read an account of a follower of his that spent 5 years living in a garage apartment owned by some old lady. The couple "paid" rent by keeping the woman's yard and house up. They made $80k a year but lived on $30k. At the end of 5 years they stroked a check for a $200k house and $50k to decorate it.
Smart but takes will power.
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Wise of them to use the money that way.
How do you explain the astronomical number of engineers graduating in China and India?
China and India have lots of engineers because they are doing all the engineering jobs for 1/10 of the price.
They are doing all the engineering jobs because all the "WESTERN" investment companies have moved manufacturing there to maximise profits for daft greedy "WESTERN" people with portfolios :rofl
Lets keep it simple like me, investment companies invest where they get maximun profits regardsless if they are American, the American worker will have to work fir $1 an hour to compete with the investment companies choice
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China and India have lots of engineers because they are doing all the engineering jobs for 1/10 of the price.
They are doing all the engineering jobs because all the "WESTERN" investment companies have moved manufacturing there to maximise profits for daft greedy "WESTERN" people with portfolios :rofl
Lets keep it simple like me, investment companies invest where they get maximun profits regardsless if they are American, the American worker will have to work fir $1 an hour to compete with the investment companies choice
What do engineer's payscale have to do with the number of engineers they are turning out? Absolutely nothing. They are making sure they have an educated population to compete in the twenty first century. If it keeps on this way, American workers will be the ones making $1 an hour while the research and design jobs are done in China and India, and that's something I hope I won't see in my lifetime.
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Absolutely sound advice but oh so hard to follow. Dave would not permit a $500 joystick for Aces High. :old:
Read an account of a follower of his that spent 5 years living in a garage apartment owned by some old lady. The couple "paid" rent by keeping the woman's yard and house up. They made $80k a year but lived on $30k. At the end of 5 years they stroked a check for a $200k house and $50k to decorate it.
Smart but takes will power.
Dave probably would not permit $500 for a stick, no. But he'd say what are the other parameters of the budget. It's all relative and he'd probably say, what can said person get away with? What are the other sacrifices that could be made to (say) go for a$250 stick?
The point you make is probably every financial planners and Dave's too; discipline is necessary to get out of debt...
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What do engineer's payscale have to do with the number of engineers they are turning out? Absolutely nothing. They are making sure they have an educated population to compete in the twenty first century. If it keeps on this way, American workers will be the ones making $1 an hour while the research and design jobs are done in China and India, and that's something I hope I won't see in my lifetime.
Your reply is sarcasm?
Tell me your reply is not serious :old:
You know that "AMERICAN" investment companies invest in China and India, please tell me your winding me up :cry
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really, please do explain how making 40k a year will allow you to pay 100k in 4 years, I mean without getting a second job that makes another 40k, and taking care of such needless things as food, gas, rent, insurance...
semp
live like you do when you made 10k per year.
YW
Nat
:salute
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Curvy that's insane, I'm squeaking about $30 each a day for day care for the three little ones. Lucky they only go once or twice a week.
It's that or public school...and I wouldn't send my dog to public school here.
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live like you do when you made 10k per year.
YW
Nat
:salute
:rofl
Its really good advice +1
They wont listen though :)
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www.myscholly.com- Scholarship finder tool. Even if you've Graduated, you can still use it.
www.coursera.org- FREE College Courses. Included are many well known and respected schools.
Nurse Practitioners make a killing in the States. :aok
Sort of taking the place of P.A.'s
:cheers: Oz
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Aren't many graduates simply ignoring the loans?
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Your reply is sarcasm?
Tell me your reply is not serious :old:
You know that "AMERICAN" investment companies invest in China and India, please tell me your winding me up :cry
It's not sarcasm. He's foretelling the future of this country if we don't stop "dummying down" to the lowest common denominator.
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live like you do when you made 10k per year.
YW
Nat
:salute
I have never made 10k a year, so perhaps enlighten me.
semp
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It's not sarcasm. He's foretelling the future of this country if we don't stop "dummying down" to the lowest common denominator.
your 20 years to late :old:
The fact that you cant see its already happened is frightening :old:
AMERICAN INVESTMENT COMPANIES INVESTED IN CHINA AND INDIA BECAUSE ITS CHEAPER :old:
THERE IS NO NEED FOR ENGINEERS IN THE US :old:
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you do know that as your career progresses, you will be making more money that may allow you to pay things off differently? College just gives you a start. Now its up to you. You loan will be getting smaller but your salary should be going up.
Mine more than tripled after 6 years out of school.
Not bad for a Jr. High Education. :neener:
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7 years to become a nurse? Would've thought 7 years was high even for a doctor?
She has been a nurse already for a few years,and while doing that she was atteneding classes to become a nurse practitioner, she plans on running or owning her own practice down the road. Not to mention she also took several months off due to pregenancy complications.
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Make sure you combine all the loans in to ONE, that will reduce the % you pay. Also, get the payments on a automatic withdrawal every month, that too will lower your % point.
I think I put my $20,000 out for 30 years. Ditto for my wife's.
Also, not be be morbid but do NOT combine those loans and do NOT pay them off early. First, the % you pay is as low as it gets. Any money you'd apply towards paying off student loans early should go towards a house, car, etc, payment. Secondly, if you die before the loan is paid off the debt is forgiven. No need to combine with your spouse and force her to carry it on (and vise-versa) due to an early death.
I was on the 7 year plane for the 4 year degree. I spent extra time in college writing papers on WWII, seriously. I enjoyed the 400+ level courses when there were only 3-4 of us in class. :D
Than k you for the advice smokin.
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I finished college while back with $42,900 debt, I bought a house and car within my budget and my small business seems to be doing alright. However my wife's cancer took a shot in my arm, $76,000 medical bills and that's just the hospital stay bill. I think its additional $13,000 for medication, without even going into the cancer stuff yet.
I imagine I'm sitting around $495,000 debt in which I am paying each bill $20-50 at a time (which is literally at my budgets limit right now).
I gave my truck back to the dealership, they were kind enough to let me give back the truck without any hassle.
Funny how the Debt collectors don't call, but all the ones wanting to help me do (and flood me no less). The hospital has been nice however and let me pay whatever I can without even saying a word, they did pick up a $92,000 cancer bill (charity I guess) - and found a quark in my finances that allow my wife to have medical insurance.
Half a million isn't to bad, I figure when my wife can work again she can probably devote most of her pay to it, and we can still live comfortable, however I still haven't gotten all the bills yet, I suspect another $125,000 in bills.
I used to cry and moan at paying $200 a month on my college loan, my house payment wasn't bad its only $1200 a month, taxes are $2600 a year.
I can't really sink or swim at this point only pay what I can and pray to god my health doesn't slip because life will really suck at that point.
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I finished college while back with $42,900 debt, I bought a house and car within my budget and my small business seems to be doing alright. However my wife's cancer took a shot in my arm, $76,000 medical bills and that's just the hospital stay bill. I think its additional $13,000 for medication, without even going into the cancer stuff yet.
I imagine I'm sitting around $495,000 debt in which I am paying each bill $20-50 at a time (which is literally at my budgets limit right now).
I gave my truck back to the dealership, they were kind enough to let me give back the truck without any hassle.
Funny how the Debt collectors don't call, but all the ones wanting to help me do (and flood me no less). The hospital has been nice however and let me pay whatever I can without even saying a word, they did pick up a $92,000 cancer bill (charity I guess) - and found a quark in my finances that allow my wife to have medical insurance.
Half a million isn't to bad, I figure when my wife can work again she can probably devote most of her pay to it, and we can still live comfortable, however I still haven't gotten all the bills yet, I suspect another $125,000 in bills.
I used to cry and moan at paying $200 a month on my college loan, my house payment wasn't bad its only $1200 a month, taxes are $2600 a year.
I can't really sink or swim at this point only pay what I can and pray to god my health doesn't slip because life will really suck at that point.
I hope all goes well with your wife,.
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I am fortunate enough that my dads wife is a good accountant, and has been acting as our money manager for the last few years, which has allowed me to buy a house,with a generous loan from my aunt to put down a sizable down payment, in the end I am saving several hundreds a month over renting, a comparable size house with the added bonus that it is my.
Another thing that has been helping with bills and allowing us to have money to live a little, is we have picked up shifts tending bar at her dads bar and grill. The income from there is mainly what are loan payments come from, plus we pay her insurance and car payment form it. Plus, I buy my weekly powerball from my tips on the way home, after I win the 345million next week I won't have to worry about payments.
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your 20 years to late :old:
So right! And now let's keep doing what we've been doing that put us in this position.
The fact that you cant see its already happened is frightening :old:
AMERICAN INVESTMENT COMPANIES INVESTED IN CHINA AND INDIA BECAUSE ITS CHEAPER :old:
THERE IS NO NEED FOR ENGINEERS IN THE US :old:
Really? No need for R&D engineers? Keep up with the times. That's not true in Silicon Valley, or Boston, or Austin to name a few. R&D is the final area where we produce world beating engineers, but within ten years, we'll loose out to sheer numbers turned out in the rest of the world. :bhead
We're allowing foreign engineers to come into this country on B1 visas because we supposedly haven't trained our own engineers. If we'd trained our people, these visas would rarely be issued. The effect is to reduce the salaries for the remaining engineers across the country and make those loan repayment plans more difficult for the graduates. I'm for bringing in foreign engineers for their different perspectives, but the current situation should be an embarrassment to any citizen in this country.
Right now, engineers in India are producing marvelous designs for some mundane new products that cost a tenth of what our export versions run. As India progresses and China reverse engineers our technology, the situation will continue to decline in America while we continue to waste our greatest resource, OUR PEOPLE.
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Not bad for a Jr. High Education. :neener:
yes :old: it is up to $7.25 per hour now but I hear it is going to double again! Sweeeeeet!
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Easy are you reading what I am typing your country is paying to educate CHINESE and Indian workers :old:
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As political as this is.
I know most American's on this board are conservative by nature due to their age and upbringing. But Easy here has an exceptionally good point.
Just putting it up there.
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My college education will be free.
Go Army!
It's not free. It may cost you your life.
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I am fortunate enough that my dads wife is a good accountant, and has been acting as our money manager for the last few years, which has allowed me to buy a house,with a generous loan from my aunt to put down a sizable down payment, in the end I am saving several hundreds a month over renting, a comparable size house with the added bonus that it is my.
Another thing that has been helping with bills and allowing us to have money to live a little, is we have picked up shifts tending bar at her dads bar and grill. The income from there is mainly what are loan payments come from, plus we pay her insurance and car payment form it. Plus, I buy my weekly powerball from my tips on the way home, after I win the 345million next week I won't have to worry about payments.
You may or may not be fortunate to have an accountant as a "money manager." Most would think so, but it's a CFP that is best at doing what you're asking, and if you don't know one who will do the work for free you're in a pickle. Accounting curriculum does not focus on personal budget and get out of debt. But several of us told you how to help yourself out of the pickle: Dave Ramsey...and other suggestions.
Have you looked Dave Ramsey up yet? I suppose not, because the only guy that I've seen you thank for advice here told you to combine loans...hmmmm what if she decides she's wants a divorce? I'm sorry I have to throw that out there, I'm sure that is not going to happen, but what if one of you dies? Dave would tell you don't combine the loans, know how I know? I listen to his radio show enough, to know that a big rule of his is not to go assume more risk than you need to, just because you got married doesn't always mean that you take your spouse's debt- or I should say - does not mean you HAVE to.
Good luck.
Oh and the lottery :rolleyes: Tax on the poor...
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You may or may not be fortunate to have an accountant as a "money manager." Most would think so, but it's a CFP that is best at doing what you're asking, and if you don't know one who will do the work for free you're in a pickle. Accounting curriculum does not focus on personal budget and get out of debt. But several of us told you how to help yourself out of the pickle: Dave Ramsey...and other suggestions.
Have you looked Dave Ramsey up yet? I suppose not, because the only guy that I've seen you thank for advice here told you to combine loans...hmmmm what if she decides she's wants a divorce? I'm sorry I have to throw that out there, I'm sure that is not going to happen, but what if one of you dies? Dave would tell you don't combine the loans, know how I know? I listen to his radio show enough, to know that a big rule of his is not to go assume more risk than you need to, just because you got married doesn't always mean that you take your spouse's debt- or I should say - does not mean you HAVE to.
Good luck.
Oh and the lottery :rolleyes: Tax on the poor...
I will definetaly be checking in to Dave Ramesy. Plus I only thanked him for the advice, it will not be advice I will be taking, We keep the majority of our expenses separate(since she is still only my girlfriend) Even, when it comes to the house it is solely mine, after seeing how my dad had to pay my mom 20,000 dollars for the house they shared even though she had never put a cent into it. Next time I am at the library I will pick up a few of Dave's books and check them out.
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I reread my post, sorry if it sounded snotty, wasn't my intention to.
Since I see you are here in the valley, tune to 92.3 after 7-8pm (I think) and you can catch Ramsey's show every week night. I don't like 92.3 for any other reason as I disagree with their politics (550am for me,) but his show is really good, as always, take what you like, leave what you don't.
Good luck.
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As political as this is.
I know most American's on this board are conservative by nature due to their age and upbringing. But Easy here has an exceptionally good point.
Just putting it up there.
Let me dumb it down a bit.
"If you lend the bloke up the road your saw don't complain that he is a carpenter and your not :old:"
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Let me dumb it down a bit.
"If you lend the bloke up the road your saw don't complain that he is a carpenter and your not :old:"
dude why do you always insist on breaking the "dont be a dick" rule? perhaps somebody can post the definition for you and no, it doesnt mean be dessert.
semp
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You are?
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Until the rest of west follows Scotland's lead and offers government paid college education, notice I'm NOT including room and board, just like we do with elementary and high school today, we will continue to loose our place in the the competitive world of the future.
Yeah, okay tax payers, you may chime in with the same argument as the citizens of early America's past, "Why should tax payers pay for educating the poor?"
Educated people generate much more tax every year of their lives.
The state spends to get more back.
The poor also have an equal right to education and the taxpayers make a profit on the deal.
When it comes time for you to retire, where do you think your social security payments are going to come from. Certainly not from the uneducated folks standing on the street corner because they saw no hope of getting a higher education.
Sorry, my hopeless personal crusade.
I paid for my education. I worked my arse off while going to college. Is everything supposed to be provided by our Government? I thought we were responsible?
Unfortunately in todays job market I know many college graduates that can't get a job commensurate to their education. They are working as Waiters, Waitresses
etc. Where is all the money coming from that the Govt. hands out? Yep....taxpayers. We are not a nanny state yet. It's coming, but I don't know where the monitory resources will be coming from.
College tuition is ridiculously high. I have no idea why. This country has lost its' manufacturing base which always supplied a good wage to those educated and un-educated.
I've also noticed recently that companies such as Bank America etc. are laying off and/or dropping employees to part time because of health care costs. The service industry
is going to be our chief private employer....next to the Govt. BTW an example......in Detroit there are I believe 64 govt. related jobs to every one job in the private sector.
DUH! Who pays the govt. employees? And whose money pays a Govt. employees taxes? Easycore I believe in what you do......the paradigm needs to change.
Private employers and employees can't fund everything. We do need to educate for sure, someone has to pay the bills and quit printing money that makes our currency
even less valued. This is not a political statement on my part I'm just asking where all the money will come from. Are we just going to continue to print more money
and devalue its'net worth? I hope not. And I hope colleges decide to drop needless costs that will drop the tuition so that everyone can attend at a reasonable cost.
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Hajo, because we had to pay our own way and help our kids make it through, doesn't mean that model should continue in the future. You and I have seen all the things that have shrunk the job base and wage rates over the years. We know that a high school education won't cut it for most people in today's world yet the costs have always put higher education out of reach for too many people.
I doubt there's a member of this board that doesn't recognize the value of higher education. Yet because we had to pay for ours, some will argue against paying for others too. I get that, but sometime, someone will have to carry that burden for the future well being of the country, and for our grandkids.
The most telling thing in this part of the discussion is that no one will argue against the need for higher education. They only argue how it's paid for and by extension, who receives that education. Parents with college behind them make sure that their kids get that degree. Holding a job, paying living expenses plus paying college expenses and going to classes at the same time should not be the test of who deserves a higher education. That model needs to change.
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Hajo, because we had to pay our own way and help our kids make it through, doesn't mean that model should continue in the future. You and I have seen all the things that have shrunk the job base and wage rates over the years. We know that a high school education won't cut it for most people in today's world yet the costs have always put higher education out of reach for too many people.
I doubt there's a member of this board that doesn't recognize the value of higher education. Yet because we had to pay for ours, some will argue against paying for others too. I get that, but sometime, someone will have to carry that burden for the future well being of the country, and for our grandkids.
The most telling thing in this part of the discussion is that no one will argue against the need for higher education. They only argue how it's paid for and by extension, who receives that education. Parents with college behind them make sure that their kids get that degree. Holding a job, paying living expenses plus paying college expenses and going to classes at the same time should not be the test of who deserves a higher education. That model needs to change.
no no no!! Our tax money should go to foreign aid! How dare you propose we use tax money to better the lives of Americans. You sound like a communist :old:
:rofl
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Hajo, because we had to pay our own way and help our kids make it through, doesn't mean that model should continue in the future. You and I have seen all the things that have shrunk the job base and wage rates over the years. We know that a high school education won't cut it for most people in today's world yet the costs have always put higher education out of reach for too many people.
I doubt there's a member of this board that doesn't recognize the value of higher education. Yet because we had to pay for ours, some will argue against paying for others too. I get that, but sometime, someone will have to carry that burden for the future well being of the country, and for our grandkids.
The most telling thing in this part of the discussion is that no one will argue against the need for higher education. They only argue how it's paid for and by extension, who receives that education. Parents with college behind them make sure that their kids get that degree. Holding a job, paying living expenses plus paying college expenses and going to classes at the same time should not be the test of who deserves a higher education. That model needs to change.
I agree with you whole heartedly. Again this is not a political statement. This country can't come up with a Budget. We do know for a fact we are throwing our tax dollars at Foreign Countries (such as Egypt) who
could care less about America or its citizens. You and I both know there are more countries we throw money at besides Egypt. Hell...we throw money at Pakistan on a regular basis and they permitted Bin Laden to live there. How smart is that? The people in our Government have to decide whether it's in Americas best interests to educate our young or throw money at problems that money will never solve. Throw some at what would benefit our budget, improve our schools etc. As I said the people in our Govt. have to decide what is best...of course without a lobbyist whispering in their ears. Full Time job creation would be a start. Let our Entrepreneurs be entrepreneurs and generate more work, private not Govt. jobs and thus create more tax payers, and give those who have labored in college the ability to earn a good living. Maybe, just maybe then our Govt. could create a sensible budget.....we've gone without a budget for how long now? (Hey, no one wants to answer the tough questions) they need to be re-elected.
Give our children and grandchildren the opportunity for higher education and the possibility of a full time job. Make a college education available without the inflated costs that our Universities are charging now. It's absolutely disgusting. College tuition has far outpaced the cost of living by a wide margin. Let's make the Universities responsible also.
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There are many good causes on the national agenda but they all become much more manageable with an educated population creating products, reducing costs and funding government.
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Scotland's lead??? What are you talking about? What does Scotland have to show for this?
Ever been to the financial aid office at a community college or university? Are you aware of Pell grants? Are you aware of tuition forgiveness programs? Are you aware of medical services employers offering tuition to their employees for nursing school? The GI bill, the military's near requirement that officers always be continuing their education? Subsidized loans? According to the scholarships representative that I met with a few years ago there are still many ("in this economy") that aren't doled out either for lack of qualified candidate or lack of a candidate.
Where isn't the taxpayer picking up nearly everyone's education, or in the least to some degree?
................
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Scotland's lead??? What are you talking about? What does Scotland have to show for this?
Ever been to the financial aid office at a community college or university? Are you aware of Pell grants? Are you aware of tuition forgiveness programs? Are you aware of medical services employers offering tuition to their employees for nursing school? The GI bill, the military's near requirement that officers always be continuing their education? Subsidized loans? According to the scholarships representative that I met with a few years ago there are still many ("in this economy") that aren't doled out either for lack of qualified candidate or lack of a candidate.
Where isn't the taxpayer picking up nearly everyone's education, or in the least to some degree?
................
The main problem with financial aid and student loans in the US is the majority of the money goes to the companies that manage them instead of going to the students seeking the money for their education.
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The main problem with financial aid and student loans in the US is the majority of the money goes to the companies that manage them instead of going to the students seeking the money for their education.
I remember back in 89 as I was at the unemployment office looking for a job , some guy asked me if I wanted to learn about computers. having taking computer classes in highschool, I told him I was interested, he told me it was free, so he took me to an office nearby that was the computer school. I spoke to a counselor who told me it would be a pell grant so I had nothing to pay back. I asked to see the classrooms as I could hear there was a class in session at the time. I walked in and saw no computers whatsoever and students were given hand outs to learn.
I said thank you I"ll let you know and walked away. a few months later they arrested almost everybody at the school for fraud. they never bothered to buy computers and were just praying on desperate people.
semp
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I remember back in 89 as I was at the unemployment office looking for a job , some guy asked me if I wanted to learn about computers. having taking computer classes in highschool, I told him I was interested, he told me it was free, so he took me to an office nearby that was the computer school. I spoke to a counselor who told me it would be a pell grant so I had nothing to pay back. I asked to see the classrooms as I could hear there was a class in session at the time. I walked in and saw no computers whatsoever and students were given hand outs to learn.
I said thank you I"ll let you know and walked away. a few months later they arrested almost everybody at the school for fraud. they never bothered to buy computers and were just praying on desperate people.
semp
I had a welder working for me 3 years ago that our company had to garnish his wages due to a defaulted student loan for a welding school that took 40 plus students money and ran, all of the students will still responsible to pay back the loans.
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I had a welder working for me 3 years ago that our company had to garnish his wages due to a defaulted student loan for a welding school that took 40 plus students money and ran, all of the students will still responsible to pay back the loans.
a friend of my gf's wanted to earn her lvn license so she went to a school that required the money up front. so they helped her get a loan for 30k. she went 1 day, didnt like the school and quit. she's gotta pay all of it back.
a good portion of the people who get loans can not find a job in the field they trained. there's a lot of horror stories about ITT and the University of phoenix. I wanted to get my BA so the University of Phoenix "counselor" called me and she had no interest on what field I was studying but more into how much it would cost. I take classes at my local community college as often as I can. it's gonna take me a while as the hours at my job are brutal. most guys in my department make 70k+ with only a high school education but they put in a lot of overtime. but before I die, I want to get my RN licence as I always wanted.
semp
semp
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I had to garnish 3 employees in 3 years due to student loan defaults.
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There has also been a scam that takes advantages of Vets and the GI bill. It is my understanding that a lot of Vets were fooled by these counselors at "Nationally" accredited schools only to learn that their credits don't transfer to Universities to obtain a Bachelor's or higher. CC's and Universities are "Regionally" accredited and it's considered a higher standard albeit an unintuitive naming system.
Buyer beware.
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There has also been a scam that takes advantages of Vets and the GI bill. It is my understanding that a lot of Vets were fooled by these counselors at "Nationally" accredited schools only to learn that their credits don't transfer to Universities to obtain a Bachelor's or higher. CC's and Universities are "Regionally" accredited and it's considered a higher standard albeit an unintuitive naming system.
Buyer beware.
I have heard about that.. what a shame.
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Re: Post-HS education:
First off , I've always believed that as a parent, one should plan for their child's post HS education just in case they want to attend college. It doesn't cost that much out of a paycheck. We started putting $100/month in each kid's 529 account the day each was born. The first born is now a senior and has his entire 4 year degree taken care of with this 529 account (as long as it's within the state of WA/OR/ID) Anything outside of those 3 states, they have to make up the tuition costs (out of state tuition)
The oldest has already secured this extra financing with multiple 2 year athletic scholarships offers from multiple colleges (Lacrosse) He has narrowed down his offers to two colleges (both in Missouri). He's visiting both this month and will make a decision.
THAT said, my parents did NOT save money for my education but managed to pay for my oldest sister's BA and Masters. But they were divorced by the time I was at the age of considering college.
So, I worked right out of HS, then went back to college and paid for it myself.
My wife has been accepted in the UW Masters program and that will put us back $40k over the next two years. Thankfully we had enough foresight to start a 529 plan for both kids. :)
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My college education will be free.
Go Army!
Not for me it wont. LOL
Both thank you and your welcome
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It's not free. It may cost you your life.
Respectfully,
It wouldn't be for college that I would be paying my life for.
:salute
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Respectfully,
It wouldn't be for college that I would be paying my life for.
:salute
Indeed. There are few nobler sacrifices. The perks that come with the risk are well deserved. :salute
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i see people take the "living expenses" portion of financial aid. this can become the majority of the debt. unfortunately these "poor" individuals could have denied this loan if they wanted.
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i see people take the "living expenses" portion of financial aid. this can become the majority of the debt. unfortunately these "poor" individuals could have denied this loan if they wanted.
Student loans are not going away. If you live in poDunkVil with no University, you won't be driving a couple hundred miles to school every day. I don't think University housing can be free anytime soon but imo it shouldn't be a profit center either. The buildings will remain for generations and that should be factored into any rents. The reviled meal tickets should always be a student expense.
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How do you explain the astronomical number of engineers graduating in China and India?
There are billions of people in those countries.
How do you explain the lack of engineers coming from Indonesia?
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My college education will be free.
Go Army!
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
Finish your tour.
Explain free to me, again, once you are finished...
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
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Respectfully,
It wouldn't be for college that I would be paying my life for.
:salute
I understand that, and thank you for your service. I was just stating that your college would not be free, you are writing a check with your life that hopefully you will never have to cash. Stay safe and thank you again.
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dude why do you always insist on breaking the "dont be a dick" rule? perhaps somebody can post the definition for you and no, it doesnt mean be dessert.
semp
Are you sure that you know what a dick is?
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There are billions of people in those countries.
How do you explain the lack of engineers coming from Indonesia?
Yes, there are billions of people in China and India and that's part of my point. We have fewer people available and we can't afford to waste any of that scarce resource.
I won't hazard a guess on Indonesia.
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My college education will be free.
Go Army!
Even without counting your life, you education isn't free, you have to pay into to your GI bill.
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Are you sure that you know what a dick is?
looked it up in the dictionary, your picture came up.
semp
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looked it up in the dictionary, your picture came up.
semp
That's me, I am hiding behind it.
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:rofl
wtg Von
This bleeding heart thread I am not to blame I have the answer thread still going :old:
blah blah blah!
The elephant in the room syndrome :joystick:
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:rofl
wtg Von
This bleeding heart thread I am not to blame I have the answer thread still going :old:
blah blah blah!
The elephant in the room syndrome :joystick:
You have all the answers. :aok
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Cheers Von
it hidden in your awesome beard :)
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My wife swears that there are birds nesting.
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From the looks of it, I will owe ~$22,000 after I graduate with my Bachelor's in May. I go to a private school that has made its way up to $36k a year tuition/room and board. I didn't think that was bad, but what really gripes me is that all through high school they pound it into your heads to go to college, but once you get there, no one wants to help pay for it :headscratch:.
#S#
Josh
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A nation spending money on education is an investment in that nations brain power. Sure that money could be spent on some war in some 3rd world toejam hole, our idiotic short sidedness often leads us to make moves that 'benefit' us today at the expense of tomorrow. I graduated from University about 10 years ago and the cost of school then was significantly less than it is today inflation adjusted. Today its cheaper for power players to take other countries educated which they did not pay for, while letting the locals rot. The tide will turn, it always does, the question is how bad does it need to get before it does and at what cost.
EDIT: What was Apple's effective corporate tax rate? What percentage of engineers working for Apple are US citizens or green card holders?
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why do you think they spent Billions building the Channel tunnel.
Governments plan 20 to 30 Years in advance in regards to these things
Ardy what are you going to do about the problem?
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I believe that a bachelor's degree is cheap, not inexpensive.
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I feel that folks should educate themselves.
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The important question is who should pay?
Me so someone can earn $50k or themselves so they can earn $50k :old:
Some people in this thread sound like the state should pay, which is a bit odd since its the US we are talking about :old:
The hidden agenda in this thread is TAXES and funding education to better the economic base of the US, like the Chinese are doing :old:
The US opinions on education and the free market economy are the problem and are impossible to reconcile :old:
I am off for Chinese meal I think i will have a number 12 this week, but without the beansprouts :old:
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The important question is who should pay?
Me so someone can earn $50k or themselves so they can earn $50k :old:
Some people in this thread sound like the state should pay, which is a bit odd since its the US we are talking about :old:
The hidden agenda in this thread is TAXES and funding education to better the economic base of the US, like the Chinese are doing :old:
The US opinions on education and the free market economy are the problem and are impossible to reconcile :old:
I am off for Chinese meal I think i will have a number 12 this week, but without the beansprouts :old:
I think the individual should pay and spend lots of time researching the field that they want to work in. Bring back apprenticeships.
I know that most of the folks I graduated high school with (20+ years ago) are not working in the field that they went to college to learn, yet are STILL paying-off the student loans that they incurred.
To think that people say playing video games and pipe smoking is a waste of money... :rolleyes:
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Some people in this thread sound like the state should pay, which is a bit odd since its the US we are talking about :old:
Zack, your old enough to know that all Americans don't think alike. Just like Brits don't all have bad teeth ;)
Furthermore, US taxes have been subsidizing higher education for years, the question is how much of a subsidy and who is squandering the money that they are receiving today.
I think the individual should pay and spend lots of time researching the field that they want to work in. Bring back apprenticeships.
Not a very realistic option for many professions esp for many STEM fields.
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The real issue is that people freak out at the idea that "their" tax money could be used to help another American. For some reason, they think it is their money lol. It stopped being yours when you gave it to the government. And as long as the government wastes it in any way, shape, or form no one has a problem. As long as they don;t find out that the money went to help another American. Then every one has a problem :rofl
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The real issue is that people freak out at the idea that "their" tax money could be used to help another American. For some reason, they think it is their money lol. It stopped being yours when you gave it to the government. And as long as the government wastes it in any way, shape, or form no one has a problem. As long as they don;t find out that the money went to help another American. Then every one has a problem :rofl
I have a problem when my tax money is squandered, but I also have a problem when someone squanders their natural gifts or talent.
Giving someone tax money for college is not the issue for me. Using tax money to attend college as a means to defer the inevitability of real life, however, chaps my arse. As one example out of many, I knew a guy that went to college for over 6 years getting degrees in American History, education, etc, etc. Mostly on grant money, etc.
He is a full-time landscaper. He could be teaching somewhere AND making a decent living at it. His reason? "I only went to school until I had to get a real job" :rolleyes:
I guess what I am saying is that I do not mind helping a brother out, but damnit, don't piss on my back and tell me it is raining.
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The real issue is that people freak out at the idea that "their" tax money could be used to help another American. For some reason, they think it is their money lol. It stopped being yours when you gave it to the government. And as long as the government wastes it in any way, shape, or form no one has a problem. As long as they don;t find out that the money went to help another American. Then every one has a problem :rofl
People don't care if their tax dollars go to help someone else, so long as their money is also available to them whenever they need/want it too. Of course, if they feel their money is being spent to help some love muffin... well yeah. Then they freak out. :)
There are two issues with making something "free". It's either not really free at all and it's just a marketing gimmick, or it's actually free and people abuse the snot out of it and/or don't appreciate it. I don't think we need free education, but certainly steps can be made to ensure people don't not seek out higher education simply because of the cost.
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It does not have to free. But it could be made easier. No interest loans, financial assistance etc. I am not buying into that just because a few will take advantage of it all should be denied. Deal with who ever takes advantage the right way instead. For example, if you take a no interest loan and you don;t graduate, you owe the loan plus interest plus a penalty.
There are things that can be done to make it easier but I stand by what I said earlier. People do not want to see a penny of what they consider their money go towards an other person. It is either for them or give it to foreign dictators.
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Something as simple as a 4% tax applied to your paychecks until all the money is payed back if you make over 30k a year instead of a loan program. That way if students graduate during a down economy, they are not financially screwed. I personally know several people who are my age who still live at their parents or have had to move back because of the combination of under-employment (people with NBAs working temp jobs, etc..) combined with high costs of living and heavy student debt.
The larger issue is that the higher education programs have lost their cause and are now all about making money for the administrators/universities. Many university big-wigs make as much as +10x the professors and educators, yet when the funding cuts come through, their salaries remain while the educators get layed off. Personally, I believe this is a direct result of the consolidation of lame/main stream media & the decline of reporting, which historically kept public & private organizations in check. Of course the common argument from the big wigs is that is 'what the market is paying people in the private sector', in my mind, its just a lame excuse to hide behind 'capitalism' when in reality most couldn't & shouldn't and know so, ie an excuse to be purely self-interested and the expense of its mission and society in general.
http://chronicle.com/article/Income-Gap-Widens/129980/ (http://chronicle.com/article/Income-Gap-Widens/129980/)
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I have a problem when my tax money is squandered, but I also have a problem when someone squanders their natural gifts or talent.
Giving someone tax money for college is not the issue for me. Using tax money to attend college as a means to defer the inevitability of real life, however, chaps my arse. As one example out of many, I knew a guy that went to college for over 6 years getting degrees in American History, education, etc, etc. Mostly on grant money, etc.
He is a full-time landscaper. He could be teaching somewhere AND making a decent living at it. His reason? "I only went to school until I had to get a real job" :rolleyes:
I guess what I am saying is that I do not mind helping a brother out, but damnit, don't piss on my back and tell me it is raining.
I like what youve been saying.
People should have a job before going to school. School then propels them further in the field. In fact if we had more availability and accessibility (because there would be a market.) to private schools for high school and possibly younger, individuals could spend more of there tax paid school years learning a trade they WILL use.
Kids have been told to go to school but they have NO CLUE WHY THEY ARE THERE, and colleges dont care the kids are spending 25K$ a year wondering around, dreaming of what carear they want.
:old:
Oh and my college education was funded by tax dollars and scholarships. I left college with a four year degree, no debt, a pretty good car, and a good chunk of change in the bank. Thank you AMERICA. :salute
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Something as simple as a 4% tax applied to your paychecks until all the money is payed back if you make over 30k a year instead of a loan program. That way if students graduate during a down economy, they are not financially screwed. I personally know several people who are my age who still live at their parents or have had to move back because of the combination of under-employment (people with NBAs working temp jobs, etc..) combined with high costs of living and heavy student debt.
The larger issue is that the higher education programs have lost their cause and are now all about making money for the administrators/universities. Many university big-wigs make as much as +10x the professors and educators, yet when the funding cuts come through, their salaries remain while the educators get layed off. Personally, I believe this is a direct result of the consolidation of lame/main stream media & the decline of reporting, which historically kept public & private organizations in check. Of course the common argument from the big wigs is that is 'what the market is paying people in the private sector', in my mind, its just a lame excuse to hide behind 'capitalism' when in reality most couldn't & shouldn't and know so, ie an excuse to be purely self-interested and the expense of its mission and society in general.
http://chronicle.com/article/Income-Gap-Widens/129980/ (http://chronicle.com/article/Income-Gap-Widens/129980/)
looking at the local universitys latest budget report. The average professor (most likely never earned a dollar in his life.) makes 100k. whats the admin make?
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looking at the local universitys latest budget report. The average professor (most likely never earned a dollar in his life.) makes 100k. whats the admin make?
As of 2009, over 36 in the California University system made over 1 mil each! According to the same article, the median 'big-wig pay' in the US is $385,909!
Charles H. Polk, who earned $1.8-million as Mountain State’s president in 2009, ranked sixth on this year’s compensation list, ahead of the presidents of such places as Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Swarthmore College, and Yale University. Mr. Polk’s pay constituted 3.5 percent of Mountain State’s budget.
Oh and my college education was funded by tax dollars and scholarships. .... Thank you AMERICA. :salute
Yes, I did pay for part of my education but it was highly subsidized by the state. Thank you tax paying citizens of the '90s, I would not have the same career options if it was not for your indirect financial support.
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Zack, your old enough to know that all Americans don't think alike. Just like Brits don't all have bad teeth ;)
Furthermore, US taxes have been subsidizing higher education for years, the question is how much of a subsidy and who is squandering the money that they are receiving today.
Not a very realistic option for many professions esp for many STEM fields.
Ardy's avatar is awesone :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
Is that goat married?
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Ardy's avatar is awesone :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
Is that goat married?
Wait till you see the video of Voldemort.. :rofl
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYQJK7N_C5s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYQJK7N_C5s)
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looking at the local universitys latest budget report. The average professor (most likely never earned a dollar in his life.) makes 100k. whats the admin make?
How can you never earn a dollar in your life if you are earning 100K a year. Are you suggesting that those who teach contribute no value to society but those that learn from them will? That's the dumbest thing I've seen in a long time.
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I like what youve been saying.
People should have a job before going to school. School then propels them further in the field.
Next timd you go to a doctor, think how stupid that statement is :rofl
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Wait till you see the video of Voldemort.. :rofl
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYQJK7N_C5s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYQJK7N_C5s)
The internet Is awesome :rofl
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Next timd you go to a doctor, think how stupid that statement is :rofl
Not in every case, however.
There are a lot of trades that still require one to serve an apprenticeship.
I started as toolmaker's apprentice. I spent the entire first few weeks of my apprenticeship filing a steel block to within ~ .015" of squareness, perpendicularity and parallelism. Only then was I deemed fit to even approach a machine.
It took me four years to earn my Journeyman's papers. Once that happened, I was finally considered worthy to build jigs, fixtures and dies without supervision and having my balls broken by any toolmaker in the shop that felt the need to be entertained.
Throughout my apprenticeship, I went to school, two nights per week for a few hours, in addition to the 40 plus hours I was working every week. As my education and practical experience increased, so did my wages. It only seemed logical.
I am fully of the opinion that a college education alone is enough to make one adept at one's craft. I have seen plenty of ideas scribbled onto cocktail napkins from freshly minted engineers that simply would not work as conceived without the experience and knowledge of one of the older guys in the shop to bring to idea to fruition.
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Not in every case, however.
There are a lot of trades that still require one to serve an apprenticeship.
I started as toolmaker's apprentice. I spent the entire first few weeks of my apprenticeship filing a steel block to within ~ .015" of squareness, perpendicularity and parallelism. Only then was I deemed fit to even approach a machine.
It took me four years to earn my Journeyman's papers. Once that happened, I was finally considered worthy to build jigs, fixtures and dies without supervision and having my balls broken by any toolmaker in the shop that felt the need to be entertained.
Throughout my apprenticeship, I went to school, two nights per week for a few hours, in addition to the 40 plus hours I was working every week. As my education and practical experience increased, so did my wages. It only seemed logical.
I am fully of the opinion that a college education alone is enough to make one adept at one's craft. I have seen plenty of ideas scribbled onto cocktail napkins from freshly minted engineers that simply would not work as conceived without the experience and knowledge of one of the older guys in the shop to bring to idea to fruition.
I agree. Not every case is the same. Some things are more of an art than a science for example. So we cannot apply one rule to everything. In some cases learning on the job is the bast way. In some cases you need both. We are talking about the cases that require college.
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How can you never earn a dollar in your life if you are earning 100K a year. Are you suggesting that those who teach contribute no value to society but those that learn from them will? That's the dumbest thing I've seen in a long time.
Yes, those in education, are those who fall short of working for a living.
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Next timd you go to a doctor, think how stupid that statement is :rofl
you can make a example of a doctor.
how many years of apprenticeship does a doctor have to go through?
Lets be real.
You got your job with experience, and so will the next guy.
:old:
Peace.
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you can make a example of a doctor.
how many years of apprenticeship does a doctor have to go through?
Lets be real.
You got your job with experience, and so will the next guy.
:old:
Peace.
so, in your opinion someone should get a hob at a doctor's office and they can learn the job while working there?
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so, in your opinion someone should get a hob at a doctor's office and they can learn the job while working there?
of course, as long as they have a medical license.
semp
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of course, as long as they have a medical license.
semp
:rofl :aok
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so, in your opinion someone should get a hob at a doctor's office and they can learn the job while working there?
I think your catching on :aok
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Yes, those in education, are those who fall short of working for a living.
The only failure is they don't teach everyone to think, like you. If you value your education and were taught by a college professor then that is their contribution to society, your education is what they produced and that is how they earned their salary.
No one taught Albert Einstein how to produce the "Theory of Relativity". He was taught to think.
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My girlfriend will be finished school after 7 years , and on the payments we figure we can swing monthly. it will only take us just shy of 20 years to pay off her's and my student loans. Now it is on to the stage of getting her into a position as a nurse practioner, instead of a RN. I am hoping after she finds a job more along the lines of her qualifications we can cut the time in half on paying the loans. I am not looking forward to paying so long on a debt like that.
That's a decent sum, but peep this one. My Sister-In-Law attended Law School for four years and practiced for about the same amount of time. $100,000 in debt and "burned out on Law" because she "could write up a Legal Brief". At least, your girlfriend will be practicing Nursing and not being "pissed when have to work for something".
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The only failure is they don't teach everyone to think, like you. If you value your education and were taught by a college professor then that is their contribution to society, your education is what they produced and that is how they earned their salary.
No one taught Albert Einstein how to produce the "Theory of Relativity". He was taught to think.
I agree if we could get more people to think like me every fighter hanger in the game would be destroyed. :joystick:
In reality it is the product that produces the product. "You get what you put in". :old:
Universitys offer the reputation, guidance, resources, and of course shared knowledge for the "product" to create it self. Knowledge is expensive, and I hope the 100k salary it necessary to get it (is the private sector that demanding?).
Now imagine if professors were required to have actual work experience (5-10 years) in the real world. How good would the "product" be then? Kinda like, How good would citizens be if they were required to serve in the army? :headscratch:
Bit off topic now. :neener:
Oh yeah, High cost of school, crushing debt, lackluster job market, check.
:cheers:
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NatCigg. You should have paid more attention in English class.
"The only failure is they don't teach everyone to think, like you."
There is a comma right after the word "think" which changes the meaning of this sentence and excludes everything after the comma from everything before. Allow me to clarify. I don't believe you are thinking. Without your college professors you would not have had an education of value. They earned their money. Their job is to teach. If you do not pay a professor well, then you will not get good professors and you will not get as good an education.
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"I agree if we could get more people to think like me every fighter hanger in the game would be destroyed."
Wow, wouldn't the game be fun then. We could all fly buffs I guess or drive CV's around. Again, it seems the "thinking" part eludes you sir.
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The only failure is they don't teach everyone to think, like you. If you value your education and were taught by a college professor then that is their contribution to society, your education is what they produced and that is how they earned their salary.
No one taught Albert Einstein how to produce the "Theory of Relativity". He was taught to think.
Actually Einstein hated school and had horrible grades. Nobody taught him to think, he had natural talent for that.
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Doctors have internships.
Practice makes perfect :)
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Double post
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Double post
Is that like two fingers?
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"I agree if we could get more people to think like me every fighter hanger in the game would be destroyed."
Wow, wouldn't the game be fun then. We could all fly buffs I guess or drive CV's around. Again, it seems the "thinking" part eludes you sir.
Easy now, I dont want you to over think this.
:rofl
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(http://i343.photobucket.com/albums/o460/caldera_08/damn.jpg~original) (http://s343.photobucket.com/user/caldera_08/media/damn.jpg.html)
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I think that a lot of what people learn in colleges/universities is nearly completely useless. I say this as a person who has spent a large portion of his life obtaining university degrees, who subsequently worked in a lot of fields and different types and sizes of businesses, and who has hired people into his departments in a lot of different fields, including people from Caltech, MIT, Stanford, Harvard, and various highly rated public schools (University of Michigan, etc.).
A college degree does provide something akin to "Oh, you got into X, which is a good place, and you did well there. So, I suspect that you are fairly smart." It doesn't mean that the person has learned much that is practical for a job, and it doesn't fully correlate with how productive a person will be.
Majoring in history, music, art, philosophy, theater, languages, sociology, anthropology, gender studies, etc., in my opinion, is flushing money down the toilet. Those are hobbies -- people should study them in their spare time (unless they are 1 in 100,000 who can make a decent profession out of it).
I think that it is also a waste of money to go to expensive private schools unless they have significantly more usable cache than a good public university. For example, getting an MBA from Harvard can be worth the money. Getting a degree from some expensive liberal arts college instead of a good public university is a waste of money, in my opinion.
If a person is going into a technical field at a technician level, a technical school can sometimes be a better choice -- faster, more to the point, cheaper, quicker into the job market, and less useless crap than a university.
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So, given my feelings above, I think that it is not a good use of a country's money to make college free for everyone. Neither our government nor our universities are very good at "bang for the buck" -- in fact, they are extremely bad at it.
In fact, I think that the government providing tuition to everyone would result in even worse education than we have now. Any time you divorce the buyer from the seller, you start getting crappier product.
If you want the US to be more competitive, and you can adjust knobs for amount of free education and for other things (such as amount of regulation; tax structure; patent reforms; cultural feelings toward work, achievement, learning, etc.), my feeling is that many other knobs would produce much greater benefit to the nation than creating more free college education.
It's much better to have a thriving economy where there are lots of job opportunities -- and more free college education is not the most-important factor in that dynamic, in my opinion.
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As for China and India, I've read a source that says once you correct for equivalency of degrees, the US produces a lot more BSE's per capita than China or India.
http://www.businessweek.com/stories/2005-12-26/engineering-is-the-u-dot-s-dot-really-falling