Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: TDeacon on August 31, 2013, 11:25:09 AM
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This is a general improvement which would benefit any map which has a TT with symmetical spawns into a center area. However, based on recent experience with Trinity TT prior to its being temporarily (hopefully) removed from the rotation, it is *essential* for Trinity. As it now stands, Trinity-type TTs rely on player social convention in order to generate and maintain combat. In case these social conventions have lapsed for a particular map, it would be nice to have a backup TT population mechanism, such as this "wish".
Before Trinity is restored to the map rotation (and it should be) we should add the “I am here” factor to TT, which had usually been empty. During the past several years the lone-wolf player (like me) used to spawn to TT, listen for sounds of activity, hear nothing, and bail. Then the next person (whom he could have fought had he remained) spawns, and does the same thing. Etc.
This “wish” adds a VBase to the center of Trinity TT. (The city can remain next to it, or be removed; I have no preference). See picture below. If this is done, as soon as someone spawns to one of the center spawn points, the VBase will begin to blink. In the MA, 9 times out of 10, a blinking base attracts defenders within 5 minutes or so. In the case of Trinity TT, these defenders would supply initial opponents for the spawning player, which solves the problem. A bonus is that, so long as at least one TT VBase is blinking, additional GVers will normally be drawn in.
This change doesn’t negatively impact other styles of play at all, so far as I can see, so it’s win-win.
MH
(http://home.comcast.net/~mark.hinds/misc_online_storage_dir/Trinity_TT.jpg)
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interesting
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Is the new vbase neutral?
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Is the new vbase neutral?
No, it would need to be randomly assigned to one of the 3 sides. Otherwise, nobody would care if it began to blink.
MH
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No, it would need to be randomly assigned to one of the 3 sides. Otherwise, nobody would care if it began to blink.
MH
Why not neutral? It would be a demolition derby between all three sides trying to get there first at the start of the map.
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Why not neutral? It would be a demolition derby between all three sides trying to get there first at the start of the map.
Here's the problem, in order to make a base neutral we would need a 4th country, not sure how easy that is going to be added.
To make things simpler for the time being, just add it as any of the 3 countries and force someone to take it.
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Here's the problem, in order to make a base neutral we would need a 4th country, not sure how easy that is going to be added.
To make things simpler for the time being, just add it as any of the 3 countries and force someone to take it.
Perhaps "copy" a portion of the strats, put no value on it (so it doesn't take anything down and isn't assigned to a country), then name it something else and place it in the middle there. That way, the 'layout of the strats' gets used for fun GV battles. Perhaps, having a mini-map (like we do for bases and airfields) that would have streets and everything, so we can say "t34 on elm street by the parlor :rofl ". But seriously, it is a waste (to me) that we have those beautiful strats that few get to see in their 'glory' because they are at 20-30k.
(And no, I don't want to go offline and see them. It's a simple suggestion, don't pummel me with belligerent rants.) There is a similar "town" in the middle of.... um... one of the older maps. Lots of islands :D
Tinkles
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I think you guys are missing the main point of the suggestion, which is to ***generate opponents for that first guy who spawns to tank town*** via the blinking base "I am here" factor. Otherwise, nobody knows you are in TT, so no fights. The current MA mentality virtually guarantees that if a country's base begins to blink, defenders will show up. If the base is neutral, the motivation to defend is greatly reduced, and they won't show up. I don't even know if the AH game engine accomodates neutral bases.
MH
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I think you guys are missing the main point of the suggestion, which is to ***generate opponents for that first guy who spawns to tank town*** via the blinking base "I am here" factor. Otherwise, nobody knows you are in TT, so no fights. The current MA mentality virtually guarantees that if a country's base begins to blink, defenders will show up. If the base is neutral, the motivation to defend is greatly reduced, and they won't show up. I don't even know if the AH game engine accomodates neutral bases.
MH
I wonder if it would be possible if HTC could make a grey icon that would flash. Indicating that someone from one of the chess pieces was within that areas radar ring. Perhaps make this icon a crown? Since it is a 'neutral faction' and HiTech is "The King" after all. :devil
Tinkles
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P.S. Also, there would be many complaints if 2 sides had equal bases and 1 had that extra 1 base (to me it wouldn't matter, but some get butt-hurt if it isn't all equal-equal). Plus, all the map requirements have an equal-equal-equal standard. Either way, be it your idea or my add-on, HTC will have to stretch or add a new rule in there somewhere :headscratch:
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<snip>
Either way, be it your idea or my add-on, HTC will have to stretch or add a new rule in there somewhere :headscratch:
My idea only requires a VBase to be added to the Trinity map, which is supposedly being modified anyway. Thus my idea would presumably be easier to implement. Furthermore, even if they coded "neutral" bases which blinked under appropriate circumstances, the motivation to spawn in to defend would be less, and thus the desired net effect of the change would be less as well.
MH
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Great idea.......put a bunch of buildings around it so we can have some urban warfare that actually has a goal.
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I love it TDeacon. this is what I have been thinking about for awhile but didnt think anyone else noticed. I hope they add this!
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Great idea.......put a bunch of buildings around it so we can have some urban warfare that actually has a goal.
I really really like this idea
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I would prefer something a little more like:
(http://i447.photobucket.com/albums/qq197/Chalenge08/TTchange_zps00eb312f.jpg)
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most gvers want a camp.
that's why v135 on trinity was so popular, and v88 on compello is.. its spawn vs spawn for camping.
third party is the last thing they want.
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most gvers want a camp.
that's why v135 on trinity was so popular, and v88 on compello is.. its spawn vs spawn for camping.
third party is the last thing they want.
A three way fight is the same thing as a two way, but with greater numbers. What people want is a lot of opportunity to shoot enemy tanks without mudhens coming in to ruin the party. Trinity TT could be a great place to find that kind of fight, but of course the problem is all of the base takers taking it over when no one is watching.
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most gvers want a camp.
that's why v135 on trinity was so popular, and v88 on compello is.. its spawn vs spawn for camping.
third party is the last thing they want.
Even assuming that you have the data to back this up, it has no relevance to my OP. I suggest you re-read it.
MH
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A three way fight is the same thing as a two way, but with greater numbers. What people want is a lot of opportunity to shoot enemy tanks without mudhens coming in to ruin the party. Trinity TT could be a great place to find that kind of fight, but of course the problem is all of the base takers taking it over when no one is watching.
Your alternative idea is interesting, but a single base would be sufficient. The problem with what you have drawn is that you would probably end up with people sitting in the 3 bases shooting at each other.
Your last point is a good one, and the Trinity TT bases closest to the mountains should probably be upcapturable. However, I didn't ask for this, as it complicates things. I figured the simplest, cleanest request which does the job is most likely to be implemented by HTC.
MH
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Your alternative idea is interesting, but a single base would be sufficient. The problem with what you have drawn is that you would probably end up with people sitting in the 3 bases shooting at each other.
Your last point is a good one, and the Trinity TT bases closest to the mountains should probably be upcapturable. However, I didn't ask for this, as it complicates things. I figured the simplest, cleanest request which does the job is most likely to be implemented by HTC.
MH
I don't see any problem with people sitting on their bases shooting at each other. We get that in TT already and it doesn't slow down the fight or impede it in any other way.
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I don't see any problem with people sitting on their bases shooting at each other. We get that in TT already and it doesn't slow down the fight or impede it in any other way.
Well, we differ on that I guess.
Another issue with your 3-bases idea is that I doubt there is sufficient space without moving all the spawn points etc. I'm not saying it couldn't be done, but the 1-base OP is easier to implement, and thus more likely to be done by HTC.
MH
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Well, the primary reason I posted it this way is to remove the single team advantage yours presents. If Bishops hold that field then they have the advantage of knowing when either of the other teams spawns in. It's not much of an advantage, because any team gets the visual flashing base indicator, but the Bishops would get the verbal warning as well.
As long as these bases are at least 4k separate it won't be a problem. I would suggest 5k separation, but 6k would be even better. At 6k though, someone can sit on their base and the other bases will not flash, so I would recommend that no further separation should be used. That's 6k measured from spawn hangar to spawn hangar.
Keeping these bases uncapturable will satisfy the vehicle fight may remain perpetual. Making the outer fields uncapturable would merely make it more difficult for the TT fight to return once the center fields are taken. If those fields are capturable you can bet dollars to donuts they will be captured, and then your TT fight is finished.
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Well, the primary reason I posted it this way is to remove the single team advantage yours presents. If Bishops hold that field then they have the advantage of knowing when either of the other teams spawns in. It's not much of an advantage, because any team gets the visual flashing base indicator, but the Bishops would get the verbal warning as well.
As long as these bases are at least 4k separate it won't be a problem. I would suggest 5k separation, but 6k would be even better. At 6k though, someone can sit on their base and the other bases will not flash, so I would recommend that no further separation should be used. That's 6k measured from spawn hangar to spawn hangar.
Keeping these bases uncapturable will satisfy the vehicle fight may remain perpetual. Making the outer fields uncapturable would merely make it more difficult for the TT fight to return once the center fields are taken. If those fields are capturable you can bet dollars to donuts they will be captured, and then your TT fight is finished.
Well preferences differ, but I would much rather have the fight propagate to the hills behind the spawn points (as I recall it doing when people went to TT), as people try to get behind and ambush each other. The idea of groups of tanks sitting on the concrete of 3 bases and shooting at each other seems kind of boring. So I still prefer the single base idea. Giving one side a random additional base on such a large map is such a tiny "advantage" that I think nobody will notice. Anyway, remember the idea is to generate fights in TT, and not to integrate into the strategic game (which doesn't really interest me anyway) Let those who enjoy the strat game play on the remaining 95% of the map.
MH
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How about this. Have it be like a town that is white flag. It can be any country. The first country to get troops into the map room captures the town and also the town comes all the way up... :banana:
Trying to think of down the line of capture the flag in paintballl. :neener:
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How about this. Have it be like a town that is white flag. It can be any country. The first country to get troops into the map room captures the town and also the town comes all the way up... :banana:
Trying to think of down the line of capture the flag in paintballl. :neener:
That might work. However, remember the main reason for the OP is to attract opponents via the opponent's blinking base. If I were the first person in, I could presumably capture it. However, then I could no longer get it to blink, so no opponents attracted. I'd have to change sides. Then I'd be attacking an "extra" base as I originally proposed in the OP. So perhaps the OP idea would be better...
MH
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The base will flash regardless if it is white flag. Just thought it would solve the problem of whiners about a extra base
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Put a bunch of bases that close together and the 88s will be full of guys exploiting the 88mm gun glitch.
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Disable the 88s that is real easy
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Put a bunch of bases that close together and the 88s will be full of guys exploiting the 88mm gun glitch.
88s are easy to kill. If, the base is un-capturable, then what the guns can do means nothing, and since manned guns do nothing for your score it also will just be a time killer.
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They are almost as annoying as people sitting on base in a king Tiger and if bombers show up or one round hits them they tower out...... WUSSES
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88s are easy to kill. If, the base is un-capturable, then what the guns can do means nothing, and since manned guns do nothing for your score it also will just be a time killer.
So you're cool with a guy downing the entire field with an 88 simply by firing over the field without hitting anything?
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No, I'm cool with killing the 88s. If what you describe is a bug then HTC will fix it when they find it. Have you tried to kill things from an 88? I can tell you that if a field is within range of the 88s then I can kill the 88s with a T34/85 or M4 without leaving the field.
@wpeters: If you ever drive a TigerII let me know which field. If you are as brave as you say others should be, you will lose those perks.
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There just isn't room for 3 bases in there. In addition to the 88 thing, you would have people sitting on the tarmac shooting at each other. It would be lame play paradise. Best to leave it at one VBase per the OP.
MH
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That same layout is what we have in TT of OZkansas, and it's good times as far as I can tell. Granted, I usually spend time shelling the opposing field down, but I used to do that on Trinity and no one even knew it was happening.
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That same layout is what we have in TT of OZkansas, and it's good times as far as I can tell. Granted, I usually spend time shelling the opposing field down, but I used to do that on Trinity and no one even knew it was happening.
The recent spate of OzKansas TT base shelling each another, and tarmac-sitting King Tigers shooting at each other, are IMHO bad for game play. For one thing, it allows people to down a base without upping in a tank or plane. I doubt the 88s were intended for that purpose by HTC. Quite annoying. (I realize that you disagree, since you are one of the people doing this, and /or using your M4 artillery exploit, which is equivalent).
MH
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The recent spate of OzKansas TT base shelling each another, and tarmac-sitting King Tigers shooting at each other, are IMHO bad for game play. For one thing, it allows people to down a base without upping in a tank or plane. I doubt the 88s were intended for that purpose by HTC. Quite annoying. (I realize that you disagree, since you are one of the people doing this, and /or using your M4 artillery exploit, which is equivalent).
You just contradicted yourself. For one, I don't use the 88's except to shoot at planes, and because of their dismal rotation speed (inaccurate more so than your Firefly speed). And second, it's not exploiting a tank to use it in an historical way. So, that bit there is a whine.
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You just contradicted yourself. For one, I don't use the 88's except to shoot at planes, and because of their dismal rotation speed (inaccurate more so than your Firefly speed). And second, it's not exploiting a tank to use it in an historical way. So, that bit there is a whine.
Perhaps you have a point there; I was in an irritable mood when I posted this. However, if the game designers intend tanks to perform long-distance bombardments of bases without LOS, they should document the procedure. Since they don't, I doubt it's intended.
MH
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That same layout is what we have in TT of OZkansas, and it's good times as far as I can tell. <snip>
Furthermore, the scale is very different between the 3 central OzKansas TT bases, and the available area in Trinity TT. I am taking the advantage of an image I posted today to demonstrate this; see below. Note that there isn't room for 3 bases, unless you have the spawns directly into the bases, which would be ridiculous. So to fix that, they would have to move the spawns, etc. Much more work, and therefore much less likely to get done. Thus, I prefer the OP's idea.
(http://home.comcast.net/~mark.hinds/misc_online_storage_dir/Trinity_TT.jpg)
(http://home.comcast.net/~mark.hinds/misc_online_storage_dir/TT_crippled_in_prime_time.jpg)
MH
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No, you're ignoring that fact that there is plenty of room for the mod I suggested that would actually cure TT on Trinity. Claiming there isn't room when there clearly is doesn't help your case.
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No, you're ignoring that fact that there is plenty of room for the mod I suggested that would actually cure TT on Trinity. Claiming there isn't room when there clearly is doesn't help your case.
Perhaps you overlooked the fact that the 2 images I posted above were in 2 different scales? Use the "0" digit as an indicator of relative size. Or, look at your own image, posted on the first page. The bases are right on the spawns, which is the explanation I gave above when I said there wasn't enough room. That means that you could spawn right into or right next to an enemy base, which is bad, and therefore not done on our AH maps. In contrast, per the OP, there *is* room for a *single* base. As stated above, that's why I prefer and suggested the single base in the OP. I am not opposing your Forum ideas in principle; it's just that in this case the facts (and your own posted image) speak for themselves.
MH
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I know very well the scale. I used to shell the fields in TT every time Trinity came through rotation.
What you fail to realize is that each sector on every map is 25 miles across and 25 miles wide. Now that you know that take a look at OZkansas TT again.
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I know very well the scale. I used to shell the fields in TT every time Trinity came through rotation.
What you fail to realize is that each sector on every map is 25 miles across and 25 miles wide. Now that you know that take a look at OZkansas TT again.
Nobody is arguing about the overall size of the sector. When I say there "isn't room", I also say what I mean by "isn't room". You seem to have ignored this portion of my previous post, for some reason. To *repeat* what I already posted:
<quote>
Note that there isn't room for 3 bases, unless you have the spawns directly into the bases, which would be ridiculous. So to fix that, they would have to move the spawns, etc. Much more work, and therefore much less likely to get done. Thus, I prefer the OP's idea.
<unquote>
MH