Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: BreakingBad on September 09, 2013, 12:56:43 PM
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Below is a video of the bomber alley battle fought between the British Navy and the Argentine Air Force.
At about time 0:42 seconds, one of the airplanes just explodes.
Does anyone know the make of the airplane and the likely cause of it's shoot down? It's almost as if the plane runs into an invisible wall.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsDodFQPeJ0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsDodFQPeJ0)
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you didn't see the sam launched from the ship? went pretty fast...
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The majority of the aircraft I saw were A4 Skyhawks. I think one Mirage was captured on that film but it is hard to tell because of the quality. You might Google Royal Navy surface to air missle types of the Falklands War if you want info on those. Honestly I can't see what the missle you're refering to hit. It may have just detonated and not hit anything..
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at 0:36 a missile is fired from a ship. the camera follows it, at 0:40 you can see the back end of the missile appear as a white spot as the camera follows it. at 0:42 it strikes the plane.
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at 0:36 a missile is fired from a ship. the camera follows it, at 0:40 you can see the back end of the missile appear as a white spot as the camera follows it. at 0:42 it strikes the plane.
I see it now. We are looking at a missile in flight, I thought it was an airplane. At 0:42 it strikes an unseen airplane.
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Watched a great documentary on the Vulcan raid on Port Stanley. I always thought that would make a great movie! Truly amazing and daring mission, the impact of which was far out of proportion to the damage actually done on the airfield they attacked. :salute my RAF cousins.
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Watched a great documentary on the Vulcan raid on Port Stanley. I always thought that would make a great movie! Truly amazing and daring mission, the impact of which was far out of proportion to the damage actually done on the airfield they attacked. :salute my RAF cousins.
was at shoreham Sunday last to see her and they cancelled it due to internal fuel leaks. :(
Out of 5 airshows it's been billed at, I've only seen it fly once. She is pretty dam rare!! or I'm just unlucky...
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:O
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The missile would have been a sea dart from a type 42
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Had more of thier bombs exploded instead of passing right through the ships they hit, the war would have been a much larger entry in world history.
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Yeah, but they didn't and it hasn't!
The Argentines used Skyhawks, Mirage and Daggers (Israeli Mirage).
I saw the Vulcan at Manston this year, and very impressive it was!
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The missile would have been a sea dart from a type 42
What he said.
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It could have been a Sea Cat missile as well. They were used on the older types of the time such as the Amazon and Leander class. I believe you can see a Leander in the film. If I recall correctly one Amazon type was sunk in that anchorage.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_Cat
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The missile would have been a sea dart from a type 42
Or perhaps the Sea Wolf from the two Type 22 frigates. They're credited with three A-4 kills.
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This was a mean, vicious little war and one with lasting repercussions to this day. Do correct me if Im wrong but Britain was going to retire both their light CVs and had no plans to build new ones at the time. So the Royal Navy was basically saved by the conflict and the eventual outcome of it will be launched in a few years as the Queen Liz CVs.
It also, along with the Persian Gulf tanker war, brought home the message of the danger of ASMs. I cant remember the exact details but wasnt a troop convoy ship hit by one with a lot of casualties? Tho they were soundly defeated the Argie Air Forces were no push over.
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This was a mean, vicious little war and one with lasting repercussions to this day. Do correct me if Im wrong but Britain was going to retire both their light CVs and had no plans to build new ones at the time. So the Royal Navy was basically saved by the conflict and the eventual outcome of it will be launched in a few years as the Queen Liz CVs.
It also, along with the Persian Gulf tanker war, brought home the message of the danger of ASMs. I cant remember the exact details but wasnt a troop convoy ship hit by one with a lot of casualties? Tho they were soundly defeated the Argie Air Forces were no push over.
Excellent points. It also accelerated the deployment of the Phalanx CIWS weapon system on USN ships (and England bought a bunch, too, as I recall). General Dynamics, who built the Phalanx demonstrated shortly after the war that it could intercept and destroy the Exocet, even given the limited warning the Sheffield had (assuming it had been enabled, of course). Really ticked off the French, too, as their sudden surge in orders for the Exocet was dampened somewhat by the news that the US already had a turnkey system to defeat them.
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Yeah, but they didn't and it hasn't!
The Argentines used Skyhawks, Mirage and Daggers (Israeli Mirage).
I saw the Vulcan at Manston this year, and very impressive it was!
I thought they held the Mirages and Daggers back. It was Skyhawks, Pucara's (based on the island), and Super Etendard's, The really low flying stuff was A4 Skyhawks coming in using the land to mask themselves on radar - dropping primarily bombs (not ASM's). They flew so low a lot of the bombs failed to fuze properly. The Exocets (ASM) were fired at standoff distances by the Etendards IIRC. I don't think the Pucara's got off the ground much (if at all).
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I thought they held the Mirages and Daggers back. It was Skyhawks, Pucara's (based on the island), and Super Etendard's, The really low flying stuff was A4 Skyhawks coming in using the land to mask themselves on radar - dropping primarily bombs (not ASM's). They flew so low a lot of the bombs failed to fuze properly. The Exocets (ASM) were fired at standoff distances by the Etendards IIRC. I don't think the Pucara's got off the ground much (if at all).
Some strikes were flown with the Mirage and Daggers but with the lack of in-flight refueling, it really hampered operations of both planes. I think the Daggers flew over a 100 missions and the Mirages a bit less. The short legs of the Mirage also prevented it from acting in the escort role protecting the strike planes.
ack-ack
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I was stationed in the UK during the Falklands War. It was a very interesting time to be in a country at war and it not be your own.
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Though it showed a lot of the fleet deploying from UK a large force left from Gibraltar. I was stationed in Gib at the time, we worked about 18 hours a day until we got support from UK for about a week.
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I remember Argentina sank an English destroyer. Margaret wanted to strike Argentina's 2nd largest city with a nuke and Reagan stopped her. :old:
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I did my signals course at Bovington with an ex Royal Navy submariner who served in the Falklands on a boat that was not HMS Conqueror there specifically with a view to a nuclear option. :old:
In regards to the AA missiles, there was also Rapier based on the land around San Carlos water, that were credited with ground to air kills, a lot of footage includes a massive amount of small arms fire as enemy aircraft passed by, and an SAS team destroyed one with a stinger system, before they toddled off to Pebble Island and destroyed the Pucara fleet with sledge hammers and bare hands :old:
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Went down south twice , first time 89-90 second time 98 .For R&R the second time i stayed at Pebble Island ,there was a wreck of a Puccara and a Skyvan still there .The guy showing me around was a kid at Pebble during the war he said after it had finished he and his mates used to use the bits of solid rocket propellant from argie (2.75 in ??) rockets to start fires !!!!Also on pebble was a wreck of a Mirage /Dagger couldn't tell which, it was spread out over a large area the largest part being an intake with the gun trough .
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I remember Argentina sank an English destroyer. Margaret wanted to strike Argentina's 2nd largest city with a nuke and Reagan stopped her. :old:
Not likely, Margret Thatcher proved to be a wise wartime PM.
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I remember Argentina sank an English destroyer. Margaret wanted to strike Argentina's 2nd largest city with a nuke and Reagan stopped her. :old:
They sank Antelope, Sheffield,Antrim, Atlantic Conveyor and Galahad IIRC.
That was before Brit secret services bought up all the worlds supply of exocets and put a stop to the rotters. Then we gave them a vigorous shoeing :old:
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(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26232318/falklandswar.JPG)
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I remember Argentina sank an English destroyer. Margaret wanted to strike Argentina's 2nd largest city with a nuke and Reagan stopped her. :old:
BS.
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BS.
Stop beating around the bush and say what you mean !!!
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Not likely, Margret Thatcher proved to be a wise wartime PM.
It was reported on TV ok. Rosario was the 2nd largest city at the time in Argentina and that is what was talked about.
Stop beating around the bush and say what you mean !!!
Really? how??
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Margaret wanted to strike Argentina's 2nd largest city with a nuke and Reagan stopped her.
I don't think that's true.
I recall a documentary describing how there was a good deal of friction between the leaders over this war though. Or maybe there was a good deal of collaboration...
I can't recall anymore, I'm getting old. :old:
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I remember Argentina sank an English destroyer. Margaret wanted to strike Argentina's 2nd largest city with a nuke and Reagan stopped her. :old:
I would be absolutely shocked if that were true. Thatcher cannot have had any illusions about the international outcome of using a nuke, let alone on a population center. I can't think of any better method for the UK to have turned the entire world against themselves than to have used a nuke on an Argentinean city.
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It was reported on TV ok. Rosario was the 2nd largest city at the time in Argentina and that is what was talked about.
Really? how??
Yep you saw it on the internet and I'm a French model.
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The number of British ships sunk is only part of the story, there were 22 ships hit and damaged in total, 23 some say. Some of the damage was minimal, with bombs not exploding and passing right through both sides of the ship, and others were just a few cannon round hits. Most of the ships however took some serious damage. Without a large CV deck and the ability to have a real overhead radar coverage zone, her majesty's navy did the best they could under the circumstances with the Harriers doing that job, and the Aim9L was the real performer IMO, giving the British a weapon that was unmatched by the Argies at the time.
http://www.naval-history.net/F62brshipslost.htm
This gives a pretty good accounting of the ships hit during the war, at least on the British side.
So far as the "nuclear" option, I don't think anyone would accept that Thatcher would even consider using WMD on a country currently engaged in conventional war only.
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The Falklands war is just a Chapter in the Book "Big Trouble in little Colonies". :bolt:
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The Falklands war is just a Chapter in the Book "Big Trouble in little Colonies". :bolt:
Seems to me the Argentinians did not have any rightful claim to the island. It was uninhabited when first discovered by Europeans, the English established a colony before Argentina was a country. The English have used it for a variety of reasons throughout the nineteenth and twentieth centuries.
Yeah, not sure what the Argentinians were thinking, glad the Brits kicked their asses. :rock
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It was just another case of finding an external enemy to distract the people from the catastrophic internal problems the Argentinian junta was facing.
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It was just another case of finding an external enemy to distract the people from the catastrophic internal problems the Argentinian junta was facing.
Very realistic possibility. Not like the Argentine government were/are saints.
Yep you saw it on the internet and I'm a French model.
They did not have internet back in 82'. So you can go lick somebody else.
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Actually, the precursor to what you know as the Internet was up and running (ARPANET). Email and News/Notes system were the tools of day. My first email account was in 1979.
Heck, the first BitTorrent-like software was up and running in 1970.
It is generally agreed upon that 1969 was when it all officially went online. Thus the clock started for all UNIX versions as well. Not a coincidence, by the way.
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Actually, the precursor to what you know as the Internet was up and running (ARPANET). Email and News/Notes system were the tools of day. My first email account was in 1979.
Heck, the first BitTorrent-like software was up and running in 1970.
It is generally agreed upon that 1969 was when it all officially went online. Thus the clock started for all UNIX versions as well. Not a coincidence, by the way.
What was an email account like back in that day? Was it the same as it is now? name@domain.extension?
BitTorrent and UNIX - Chinese to the common working man like me. :) But it is interesting. Funny thing is now you reminding me of a friend of mine in high school in the 80's that had a Commodore Amiga and a modem. Authorities raided his home and confiscated his hardware for hacking into his high school computer and changing his grades. hahahahah
He was only 17. I wonder what came of him... :headscratch:
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Email took the form of name%server_name.
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What was an email account like back in that day? Was it the same as it is now? name@domain.extension?
BitTorrent and UNIX - Chinese to the common working man like me. :) But it is interesting. Funny thing is now you reminding me of a friend of mine in high school in the 80's that had a Commodore Amiga and a modem. Authorities raided his home and confiscated his hardware for hacking into his high school computer and changing his grades. hahahahah
He was only 17. I wonder what came of him... :headscratch:
did he save the world by playing tic tac toe? haha had to ask! :devil
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What was an email account like back in that day? Was it the same as it is now? name@domain.extension?
BitTorrent and UNIX - Chinese to the common working man like me. :) But it is interesting. Funny thing is now you reminding me of a friend of mine in high school in the 80's that had a Commodore Amiga and a modem. Authorities raided his home and confiscated his hardware for hacking into his high school computer and changing his grades. hahahahah
He was only 17. I wonder what came of him... :headscratch:
He changed his name to "Skuzzy" and works for some game company. :P
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He changed his name to "Skuzzy" and works for some game company. :P
:lol
did he save the world by playing tic tac toe? haha had to ask! :devil
He's probably got himself a pretty high paying job as a government hacker. :noid
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It was just another case of finding an external enemy to distract the people from the catastrophic internal problems the Argentinian junta was facing.
That is what the recent sabre rattling about the Falklands and Gibraltar have been about as well.
And Gibraltar being a British colony is a distinct economic gain for Spain as it brings a lot of tourism and some trade monies to Spain.
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That is what the recent sabre rattling about the Falklands and Gibraltar have been about as well.
And Gibraltar being a British colony is a distinct economic gain for Spain as it brings a lot of tourism and some trade monies to Spain.
Oil has been found near the Falklands as well.
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That is what the recent sabre rattling about the Falklands and Gibraltar have been about as well.
And Gibraltar being a British colony is a distinct economic gain for Spain as it brings a lot of tourism and some trade monies to Spain.
And they'd just get their backsides handed to them again, so doubt they'll do much other than whine :)
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Email took the form of name%server_name.
I remember learning Punchcards in School in the late 70's. I wrote some simple dos program space game in the early 80's. Amazing how many lines needed for each action. How far we have come. :O
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Oil has been found near the Falklands as well.
That reminds me that fresh water is now the new oil. The world is experiencing unprecedented droughts and that Syrian civil war is partly to do with lack of water in the region. Assad sold the nations wheat supply and now the farmers are PO'd and without water - they want to take Assad to the wood shed. That's what I been hearing.
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The Cold War is over so why would GB spend all those pounds on building super carriers? Ok they have treaty obligations but they also have a few dozen over seas's territories and have a large stake in off shore oil production. Britain also has many former colonies with a lot of economic interests and citizens living in them.
Of course there is the proud history of the RN, which of course was tasked with the same mission it still is. that was the decision Maggie really had to make, that of whether GB was going to remain a great power and I dont think it would have been possible without a powerful navy able to project power. Its why CVs are still in vogue.
GB could have met its NATO requirements without CVs but they would not have remained a great navy able to project power.
Its no small thing to sail 1/2 across the world, or hemisphere, land troops and provide air cover with floating air bases. Really there have been only 3 navies in all history able to do it.
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I count at least four, more if you want to include the Russians and Indians. The US, UK, Japan and France certainly all have had that capability at one time or another. China will soon have it, if you count the level the Russians and Indians had/have as being up to the task.
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Ten nations currently operates aircraft carriers.
The US is currently operating 10 carriers (nuclear powered super-carriers, so there is a marked difference from the rest of the list).
The UK is operating one carrier, with two more under construction.
France is operating one carrier.
Russia is operating one carrier.
Spain is operating one carrier.
India is operating one carrier, with two more under construction.
Italy is operating two carriers.
Brazil is operating one carrier.
China is operating one carrier (mostly for training and research), with one more under construction.
Thailand is operating one carrier.
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Ten nations currently operates aircraft carriers.
The US is currently operating 10 carriers (nuclear powered super-carriers, so there is a marked difference from the rest of the list).
The UK is operating one carrier, with two more under construction. Where it is illegal to carry a toothbrush anywhere on the ship
France is operating one carrier. They just surrendered
Russia is operating one carrier. Everyone on it is drunk
Spain is operating one carrier.They are looking for gold to plunder still
India is operating one carrier, with two more under construction. It is really just a floating phone center
Italy is operating two carriers. It only delivers pizza
Brazil is operating one carrier. Staffed only with Hotties, chartered by the Secret Service
China is operating one carrier (mostly for training and research), with one more under construction. Too easy, not even going to say anything
Thailand is operating one carrier. Constructed with Bamboo and Luan Mahogony
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:rofl
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Thailand is operating one carrier.
Thailand??? The hell you say. :lol
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:aok :rofl
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Thailand??? The hell you say. :lol
The flagship of the Royal Thai navy, the HTMS Chakri Naruebet. :)
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/39/Chakri_Naruebet_2001.JPEG/800px-Chakri_Naruebet_2001.JPEG)
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I count at least four, more if you want to include the Russians and Indians. The US, UK, Japan and France certainly all have had that capability at one time or another. China will soon have it, if you count the level the Russians and Indians had/have as being up to the task.
I forgot France, tho Im not sure of their amphib capability. The Soviets did have a small CV but did they have the amphib capability? If I remember right they used CVs like they used the rest of their surface fleet, in order to clear lanes for their missile subs to break out into the North Atlantic.
I dont think the Indians have the ability to project that type of invasion power so far away and China, tho building, has a very small amphib/marine force. Im not just talking having a CV, or CV type, but the ability to float a powerful ground force to a far away conflict, invade, and provide both support and air power. this takes a powerful amphibious element, CVs with both attack and defensive fighters, helicopters, marines, troop ships, supply ships, offensive and defensive missile/gun platforms. Its far more complicated then just sailing a CV somewheres.