Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: ACE on September 13, 2013, 04:44:03 PM
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Yesterday I noticed my Water cooler fan wasn't running properly. it was starting and stopping. Now my computer won't stay on for more than a few seconds. The same fan looks to be working though. Temps on the front screen are all in the 25 celcius range. I'm lost here..
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support is only available to customers :D
Try to remove the radiator from the cpu, clean it all, reapply thermal paste if needed, and put the radiator back on...
It doesn't look good tho, your cpu could be damaged
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Alright. For some reason it cut on itself but won't display anything on the screen. Haven't heard any beeps or anything.
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Alright. For some reason it cut on itself but won't display anything on the screen. Haven't heard any beeps or anything.
tell us your computer specs, ACE......
cpu, MB, OS, ram, videocard, HD type ( plate type HD or SSD ? ) monitor and connection VGA/DVI/HDMI
everything you can think of to tell us............ might help us better to decipher your problem ........ any recent windows updates or firmware updates to devices or such???
TC
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CPU: AMD Phenom x4 ii 925 2.6 Ghz
MB:GA-770T-USB3
OS: Win7
Ram: just 8Gb I don't know the brand atm
Vid: EVGA Geforce GTX 660 <Almost brand new less than a year old for sure.
HD: 1TB HDD I have one SSD 32 GB but I don't use it at all.
Monitor: VGA connection
More info: Computer has never had any problems prior to this. I don't want to think CPU because I wasn't playing any games for the past week or so, its never gotten hot while its been on this past week. I just looked down and saw that fan motor turn off and on. Even my CPU temp looks normal for just being at desktop. I still have a blank screen. That fan motor for some reason looks like its working.
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Should I shut it down manually from the back? Or just leave it running cause it isn't running hot.
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ACE, are you using a VGA to DVI adapter to hook your monitor cable to the back of your video card? if so, switch from the #1 DVI slot to the secondary DVI slot on the back of your video card to see if it will pick it up and give you something on the monitor screen
this is just a quick sugestion, since you said the PC comes on but your screen is blank.......... I had a similar problem with my Dad's PC, I switch the DVI hook ups from #1 main to the #2 secondary on back of the pc at the videocard plate...... and it worked, hopefully you have the same luck
do a complete Hard Reboot ( hold power button in on PC until everything is off and no fans are turning, then unplug power cord from back of power supply on the PC, switch the video connection slots, then plug power cord back up and Reboot up the PC..
Hope this helps ..... Good Luck
TC ( let us know how it goes or if you have any luck )
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I only have two connections but the cord only goes in one. I did the hard reboot. It gave me a black screen and said something about bios system checkum has failed.
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bios system checksum has failed.
CMOS battery maybe? - That was the problem with mine once and it created some weird problem until I realised it was just that cheap battery on the motherboard! - Replaced and all was well again although you may need to check the settings in the BIOS afterwards.
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I only have two connections but the cord only goes in one. I did the hard reboot. It gave me a black screen and said something about bios system checkum has failed.
CMOS battery maybe? - That was the problem with mine once and it created some weird problem until I realised it was just that cheap battery on the motherboard! - Replaced and all was well again although you may need to check the settings in the BIOS afterwards.
Blagard is correct far as I can remember........ getting the "bios system checksum has failed" error
usually means that the battery on the motherboard has lost its ability to supply power
Hope this helps, Good Luck
TC
( as for the 2 DVI connections on the back of your video card, yes I know......... I was asking for you to remove the cable from the one connection and connect it to the secondary DVI connection.......... also I do believe that videocard has a 3rd connection, a HDMI connection on it...... )
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So i need to purchase a new mobo? How much do they run that will support my specs :(
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So i need to purchase a new mobo? How much do they run that will support my specs :(
Just replace the battery! - It is usually a button type about 3/4" diameter - it is simply clipped in. Like a big watch battery!
There will be a number on the battery to identify the battery model. Click example link
example CR2032 battery (http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_LIbkQp2HbvY/TTIR1di3hDI/AAAAAAAAC4Y/3vN_19bElgo/s320/CMOS%2Bbattery.jpg&imgrefurl=http://howtodosteps.blogspot.com/2011/01/bad-cmos-battery-cannot-detect-device.html&h=403&w=658&sz=118&tbnid=Et7gb-nVhJye-M:&tbnh=90&tbnw=147&zoom=1&usg=__hwrfyOYhyhIO8K-XbnAKTA5ArHo=&docid=EYwf5rIAOgyHZM&sa=X&ei=hb8zUrXELKrK0QXZo4DwBw&ved=0CEAQ9QEwAg&dur=340)
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Hmm hopefully thats what's wrong. Would that cause the cooler fan motor to stop and start?
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Motherboards sense whether the cooling fan is running.
If your cooling fan is not running, the motherboard will shut down.
This is usually only on the cpu fan but it's possible a water cooler has some sort of controller plugged into the fan header on the motherboard.
Also......what brand of 'water cooler"?
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Alright. For some reason it cut on itself but won't display anything on the screen. Haven't heard any beeps or anything.
No beep at all, fans running, black screen: The computer itself is not "on", it's only powered. There are multiple reasons why this would happen.
- Bad memory stick. Test first with one at a time if the computer would boot. Then with pairs until you find the one(s) that won't boot.
- Bad CPU. Test with another known good one, doesn't have to be identical, only compatible with the mobo
- Bad video card
- Bad power supply
Also, if any of them has somehow become loose. Deattach them and reseat into their relevant slots. Remove dust from the slots if you feel it might interfere with a good connection.
The BIOS checksum error can be due to a failing battery, but it may also refer to a failing component showing as missing from the original setup. You can see that by looking at the time settings in the BIOS setup. If the time and date is correct, then it's a failing/missing component. If the time shows as being midnight some years ago, then it's most likely the battery.
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Hmm hopefully thats what's wrong. Would that cause the cooler fan motor to stop and start?
Because some strange things can occur with a failing CMOS battery and because they are so cheap, I would replace it to simply rule it out. Then report back.
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The cooler fan motor will stop and start because the computer can't get past the primary check list, starting all over again and again. Probably. Computers are a matter of the spiritual world, they work on blue smoke. When the smoke comes out, they won't work.
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The cooler fan motor will stop and start because the computer can't get past the primary check list, starting all over again and again. Probably. Computers are a matter of the spiritual world, they work on blue smoke. When the smoke comes out, they won't work.
When one of my desktops had a bad power supply it acted in this same way. It tried to post but then reset again - so the fault may be in the PSU.
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When one of my desktops had a bad power supply it acted in this same way. It tried to post but then reset again - so the fault may be in the PSU.
Correct. That may be one cause why the computer can't perform the primary tests, resulting a reset loop.
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I got the battery out. It says KTS cr2032. Do I just order one ? Or are they at local super stores.
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It's a standard battery size, CR 2032. You should find it wherever batteries are sold.
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Thanks man.
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Going to replace battery in a few will report back.
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First time I turned it on it seemed like it was going to work. It went to Loading operating system... never loaded windows. After that same screen for almost a minute in shut down on its own. Ever since then same problem as before. I will cut it on and it runs for a few seconds, the cooler fan motor will stop then the machince shuts down again.
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Since then I have removed one stick of RAM and it booted what seemed to be normally again yet its stuck at the Loading operating system screen... Can I go into my boot menu or anything for a direct diagnosis?
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I took out each ram stick individually turning the machine on after each one. When I got to the last stick and pushed power I got a long beep about 7 times and then I just cut it off. Stillost I have no idea what's wrong.
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I took out each ram stick individually turning the machine on after each one. When I got to the last stick and pushed power I got a long beep about 7 times and then I just cut it off. Stillost I have no idea what's wrong.
Symptoms like that can be power supply related. I have had exactly the same kind of malfunctions which seem to change on every boot when the PSU was flaky. Of course if that last ram stick you tried was the bad one that could cause the fault too. When you test the ram you have to remove all of the sticks first, then try one by one untill you find which one doesn't work. Or if the machine boots, run memtest86. 7 beeps means a CPU error in many bioses so at worst you may have a fried CPU. But in my experience PSUs are more commonly causing this sort of problems.
I suggest trying an another PSU. Unfortunately that's going to cost you some 70 bucks if you want to get a proper XFX black model for example. But hearing your symptoms I'd be willing to bet its either PSU or mobo and PSU would be my favourite bet.
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Did you try booting into Safe Mode? If you don't know how, press F8 repeatedly right after booting until you see the boot options menu. Navigate with arrow keys.
Unfortunately there isn't a built-in diagnostic tool set in most computers, but you can burn yourself the Ultimate Boot CD (http://www.ultimatebootcd.com/) which will contain more than you'd ever need in that category. From the CD I'd recommend Memtest 86+ for testing the RAM and the HDD diagnosis from your hard disk manufacturer (SeaTools will work for all brands).
Failing GPU and PSU can't be tested in the same manner, the only easy way is to replace them with a known good spare. Also the CPU is easiest to test that way.
A failing PSU can make all tests for other components fail.
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No I haven't tried safe mode. Most of the time it just comes on and shuts off in a matter of seconds.
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Alright, Safe Mode is out of question. Go further with the testing according the instructions I've given.
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If it doesn't get much past post... no use to play with memtest.
Remove everything from the computer except the power supply, graphics card, CPU/cooler and 1 stick of ram. All USB devices (except keyboard) has to go too. Just as bare as possible.
See if it boots. If not, try to switch the ram stick to another one. If it still won't boot I would suggest the PSU switch next.
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double post
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Will do! With a failing part, will turning my computer on damage anything else?
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Will do! With a failing part, will turning my computer on damage anything else?
If your power supply is damaged it can fry your whole computer, thats the nasty bit about them. But generally speaking it probably would have fried already if its going to.
20 years ago I witnessed 6 workstations fry one after the other. PSU popped a blue flash out of the vents, all components dead in the workstation. I managed to see one of the pops up from close :)
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So when I remove everything and turn it on it should run normally minus fully going into windows since their is no HD correct? I'm really below a rookie when it comes to this stuff.
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So when I remove everything and turn it on it should run normally minus fully going into windows since their is no HD correct? I'm really below a rookie when it comes to this stuff.
Yes your computer will post and complain your boot drive is missing. It should stay running at that point. If it crashes again and changing ram sticks won't help then you definately either have a bad PSU or mobo/cpu.
One thing: check your manual how to reset CMOS before you try anything else. This often fixes weird problems. Again - caution. When the desktop I told about earlyer had failing PSU it started as CMOS corruption. Computer would work fine for a week, then not boot. One CMOS reset later, ran for a week again.
So in short, bad PSU can be a b..ch. If you have a cheap one now, do yourself a favor and switch to XFX/Seasonic.
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I hope its PSU it looks easier to change than a mobo :( I think I'm going to a friends house to use his PSU as long in spare to see if it works. Hopefully it does so I can replace just the PSU.
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I hope its PSU it looks easier to change than a mobo :( I think I'm going to a friends house to use his PSU as long in spare to see if it works. Hopefully it does so I can replace just the PSU.
Sounds like a good plan if your friend has a suitable PSU for your computer. Again one word of caution: If you test your computer with your friends PSU and he later gets a problem with his computer, you're going to have to convince him pretty hard it was not your fault. Just something to keep in mind...
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Plug in spare *
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We are close to the same PSU watts. If thats what your referring too.
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With the PSU going bad will it make that cooler motor not run properly. IE like stop start and run slower than normal.
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We are close to the same PSU watts. If thats what your referring too.
Yeah if it's a spare then you're probably good to go. I've just learned the hard way that if you touch someones computer and *anything* breaks from it afterwards (1-60 months later) it's going to be your fault :D
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With the PSU going bad will it make that cooler motor not run properly. IE like stop start and run slower than normal.
Yes, a bad PSU can make anything from slow motion to smoke and fire.
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A good sign to see is that the fan motor goes to full speed while testing?
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A good sign to see is that the fan motor goes to full speed while testing?
Unfortunately no. Fan speed can go berzerk or too slow. A good sign is when the computer posts and works stable.
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His PSU is 650 watts. Mine is 800 watts. Is it a good idea to use his ? Even though its a little lower.
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His PSU is 650 watts. Mine is 800 watts. Is it a good idea to use his ? Even though its a little lower.
If you have unplugged your triple-SLI or crossfire setup, yes. 650 watts is more than enough.
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I only have one card. I really don't know what that is.
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I only have one card. I really don't know what that is.
Your computer needs a power supply bigger than 650 watts usually only if you have many graphics cards and other devices installed at the same time. Your 800 watt supply was probably too big for your use although if it's a cheap one it probably won't deliver the promised wattage. Cheap PSUs have been known to just relabel models so that while on paper they're 800 watts in reality they may be a 550 model with new stickers :)
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Gotcha. With my specs posted on the first page what PSU would you reccomend? If thats the problem I find. Could you link one from amazon? Or anywhere for that matter.
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Gotcha. With my specs posted on the first page what PSU would you reccomend? If thats the problem I find. Could you link one from amazon? Or anywhere for that matter.
For your use I would recommend the XFX black 650W, probably even 550W model would suffice (and this is just a wild shot without calculating your draw). You should look for a PSU size that gets about 75-80% load on your gaming use. PSUs work the best when they're stressed close - but not to the max. You can find PSU calculators online if you need to calculate your devices power draw. http://www.msi.com/service/power-supply-calculator/
If youre looking for silent then you may want even lower load than 75% to avoid high running cooling fans.
You mentioned your *water* coolers fan stoped.. Did you check for leaks? Do you have UV leak marker in the fluid?
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Not sure. I haven't checked for leaks. You got me thinking the PSU going bad is making it not run properly.
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Not sure. I haven't checked for leaks. You got me thinking the PSU going bad is making it not run properly.
Check for leaks.. but honestly speaking I still think its the PSU.
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Good Job you replaced the CMOS battery, one less thing to worry about, but just wondering if you reset or cleared the CMOS as well, just I case it got corrupted.
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If you need to buy a PSU or MB I'd shop around between
Newegg, Directron and Amazon and buy whatever looks like the best deal.
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Thanks for all this help guys. Means a lot. Beats spending a lot of money on a tech.
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I gave a call to a local tech Ripley just to get as many opinions as I could. They said it sounds like the operating system is corrupted. Which would make sense in my eyes since it got to the loading operating system screen once and never loaded and just shut off after that. I have no idea if thats the case. I'm not doubting your knowledge at all I'm just trying to get some opinions. They also claimed they have a diagnostic tool they can use for 25$ and tell me exactly whats wrong with it. Should I do that ?
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With Windows 7 you can boot from the installation CD and try and repair the startup.
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows7/startup-repair-frequently-asked-questions (http://windows.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows7/startup-repair-frequently-asked-questions)
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With Windows 7 you can boot from the installation CD and try and repair the startup.
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows7/startup-repair-frequently-asked-questions (http://windows.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows7/startup-repair-frequently-asked-questions)
XP w/SP3 is also very capable of that. I have use it quite successfully. Great time saver when you want to clean up the operating system installation.
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I found the pin on my motherboard to clear the CMOS but there is no jumper sadly. :(
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I found the pin on my motherboard to clear the CMOS but there is no jumper sadly. :(
A screwdriver will do, or a paper clip. A jumper is just a piece of metal connecting two holes into which the pins are supposed to put in. Read your motherboard manual before shortcutting anything, though. There usually are some conditions before clearing the CMOS, like unpowering the computer.
If the local tech is right in his supposing the operating system were corrupted, then you should be able to run anything from a bootable CD. I mean, testing programs should run without errors for hours if needed, and you should even be able to run a live Linux from a CD/DVD. If not, it wouldn't be an OS problem.
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I just tried putting my windows 7 disk in. It went to the same screen loading operating system then shut off again. Last time I tried to hit f12 or whichever boot menu is it shut the computer off. It wouldn't let me select one.
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We are progressing. Now it should be clear it's not an operating system glitch.
Somehow no one has yet mentioned failing capacitors. They are the tiny can looking things on your motherboard. They shouldn't look swollen or leaking. Unfortunately the other type of caps don't have such visible indicators, but they also last longer.
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I will go and look for the capacitors. When I unscrewed my PSU from the case and pulled it out a little, I saw that it isn't just a simple unplug. Any idea how to take that out? Im trying my best not to break anything.
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I couldn't find any thing wrong visually with the Mobo Bizman.
Edit: While reading my mobos manual it didn't say anything about CMOS. It looked to be only an installation guide.
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The company tech support at the place I bought the computer from seem to think its a cooling problem. Like the liquid cooling is simply not working. However, I don't know how to tell if that's the case because the lights on the cooling unit are on.
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While this may not be the manual for your particular board revision you should download a copy of your manual.
In it is a rather nice flow chart of what to check if having problems starting up.
http://download.gigabyte.eu/FileList/Manual/mb_manual_ga-770t-usb3_e.pdf (http://download.gigabyte.eu/FileList/Manual/mb_manual_ga-770t-usb3_e.pdf)
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I found the pin on my motherboard to clear the CMOS but there is no jumper sadly. :(
If you replaced the battery then your CMOS is already cleared.
I'm confused here - does your computer boot far enough to start to load the operating system or does it freeze during bios post? If it freezes during post your techie was completely lost trying to blame the OS.
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It shuts off either before or right after the bios screen. I took it to the techie I can't mess with it on my own I'm really afraid I will break something. He thinks the liquid cooling pump isn't working and it shuts off on overload of being too hot.
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It shuts off either before or right after the bios screen. I took it to the techie I can't mess with it on my own I'm really afraid I will break something. He thinks the liquid cooling pump isn't working and it shuts off on overload of being too hot.
If the cooler has liquid in it and the cooling block actually makes contact with the CPU your computer should run for minutes easily without any pump. Only if the CPU has no cooling at all it may shut down immediately on post. A water block full of room temperature water cools the CPU for a long time. The techie is either yanking your chain to get more money or just doesn't know what he's doing most likely.
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Sorry meant to say the guy from ibuypower said that about the cooling pump. He was kind of an ass. Sounded like he just wanted to go to lunch and not talk.
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Sorry meant to say the guy from ibuypower said that about the cooling pump. He was kind of an ass. Sounded like he just wanted to go to lunch and not talk.
Usually the only situation where a faulty cooling pump may shut down your computer straight at boot is if your motherboard/bios is set to shut down on missing fan and the pump is somehow rigged so that the motherboard can detect the pump as a fan. Some water cooling systems also jerry-rig themselves to the cabling so that they can 'self terminate' if they detect an internal error.
Since you called ibuypower I guess this computer is a ibuypower one? In that case they may have installed a custom bios and/or a safety switch which detects and shuts down the computer if the pump stops running. It has nothing to do with actual heating though.
If its a branded computer things tend to get more complicated, they may have proprietary architectures. If you have a spare PSU and your warranty is expired, try that. If it won't work then contacting ibuypower is maybe next best - they'll sell you a new one most likely :)
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My warranty is expired I believe. Its been a while since I've bought it.
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Usually the only situation where a faulty cooling pump may shut down your computer straight at boot is if your motherboard/bios is set to shut down on missing fan and the pump is somehow rigged so that the motherboard can detect the pump as a fan. Some water cooling systems also jerry-rig themselves to the cabling so that they can 'self terminate' if they detect an internal error.
If you look at the flow chart for the motherboard startup troubleshooting two issues early on relate to the cooler.
"Check if the CPU cooler is attached to the CPU securely. Is the power connector of the CPU cooler connected to the CPU_FAN header properly?"
The CPU fan must be connected and so with water cooling is this connected to the pump?
Later in the flowchart
"When the computer is turned on, is the CPU cooler running? if No -The power supply, CPU or CPU socket might fail."
It seems to me that given the tool of the manufacturers flow chart, you should at least give it a go
Edit: just to add, there are two manuals for the motherboard. One is a simple installation guide, the other which I linked to is the full manual.
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If you look at the flow chart for the motherboard startup troubleshooting two issues early on relate to the cooler.
"Check if the CPU cooler is attached to the CPU securely. Is the power connector of the CPU cooler connected to the CPU_FAN header properly?"
The CPU fan must be connected and so with water cooling is this connected to the pump?
Later in the flowchart
"When the computer is turned on, is the CPU cooler running? if No -The power supply, CPU or CPU socket might fail."
It seems to me that given the tool of the manufacturers flow chart, you should at least give it a go
Edit: just to add, there are two manuals for the motherboard. One is a simple installation guide, the other which I linked to is the full manual.
This assuming that the bios is set to shut down on a missing fan. On my watercooling system I've disabled the option since the CPU has no fan to monitor. The water cooling will still cool the CPU even if its own fan will stop running. OTOH the water cooler is rigged so that if it fails a self-test it will shut down the computer automatically.
The OP has a branded computer and who knows what they've built in it. If it came from the shop with a water cooler they've for sure built safeties for it. So basically the whole issue might be a failing pump or sensor as the ibuypower guy suggested. He might even know that these pumps start to fail at this age ;)
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It might also be that 1) the motherboard has to sense a fan before starting up, and 2) the fan somehow can't tell it's rotating, I.E. the sensor has broken. Interchanging the plugs of a case fan and the water cooler/CPU fan would fool the motherboard to believe the right fan would be running. Again, this assuming the bios is set to shut down on a missing fan.
If the bios has been set to not recognize the fan due to water cooling, a failing battery or some other thing might just have reset the bios/cmos settings back to look for missing fans. Even more so after changing the battery, all settings have been reset to default including the fan settings if they were altered because of the water cooling.
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It might also be that 1) the motherboard has to sense a fan before starting up, and 2) the fan somehow can't tell it's rotating, I.E. the sensor has broken. Interchanging the plugs of a case fan and the water cooler/CPU fan would fool the motherboard to believe the right fan would be running. Again, this assuming the bios is set to shut down on a missing fan.
If the bios has been set to not recognize the fan due to water cooling, a failing battery or some other thing might just have reset the bios/cmos settings back to look for missing fans. Even more so after changing the battery, all settings have been reset to default including the fan settings if they were altered because of the water cooling.
OEM computer are always a can of worms I don't want to open. Brrrr... (cold shivers)
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They just called me and told me they have the diagnosis. She said it was several things. Will find out what they are in person.
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She said it was several things.
A profitable repair shop always will.
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Right. I know how businesses work lol. However , I will not let them buy parts I'm not gonna eat 25% mark up lol.
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It's back up and running now :aok
Here was the problem I completely missed. I couldn't see the crack without taking this whole thing off.
(http://i1269.photobucket.com/albums/jj588/Jojo_Powers/IMG_20131001_071941_212_zps7154c243.jpg)
cost me about 30-35$ including parts to fix this.
Edit: If anyone cant see what im talking about, you notice two silver screws on the right side. There should be two more on the left side. However, there was a crack and it just fell off when he unsrewed it. Im guessing over time it just got weaker due to heat.
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Note to self: Don't get water cooling. Ever. :bolt:
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I replaced it with a fan/heatsink combo that works just as good as it did!
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With CPU's using less and less power, water cooling is really only for those who are extreme overclockers who dream of applying liquid nitrogen to help dissipate the 300W of power they want to push through a 22nm part so it will clock at umpteen gigahertz, for less than 30 seconds before exploding. Then sit back and go, "coooolll".
Anyway, I digress. With CPU's total power dissipation numbering in the area of one 60W light bulb, air cooling is just fine and quiet if you get the right parts.
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i bought a 10$ cooler master it works fine and i cant hear it
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i bought a 10$ cooler master it works fine and i cant hear it
:rock Good to see that you have resolved this issue.