Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: LCADolby on October 09, 2013, 11:43:37 AM
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Are they supposed to be able to withstand 2-3 accurately placed 30mm Mk108 rounds?
This is a question not a whine, I just want to be able to know for sure how long I need to hold the 2ndary fire button down.
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The first two rounds bounced off the thick, almost Tiger II like armor plating. Soviet engineering at its finest. :rolleyes:
;)
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New candidate for the drone circle and single shot dismantling to see how many 30mm it takes per wing?
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The machine gun on a T34 took the wing off my IL2 twice in a row last night. I was thinking the Il2 should be a bit tougher :headscratch:
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I would rather have a "man of the Coad" give the specifics bustr.
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If you have a film, then we can give an accurate answer. There are too many variables involved to simply speculate.
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:salute gees when I am flying il2 they go down fast.
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:rofl Skuzzy moved this to the "help and training" forum! I think he's trying to tell ya something Dolby :D
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:rofl Skuzzy moved this to the "help and training" forum! I think he's trying to tell ya something Dolby :D
It is a legitimate question, but without a film, it is simply too broad in scope to accurately answer.
If you want a general answer. Each round does X amount of damage to a component. Once the component reaches X amount of damage, it fails. A wing is comprised of several components. Is it possible to hit it and not do critical damage? Yes. Does a 30mm round do more damage than a 20mm round? Given an equal parameter of velocity, then yes it does.
With a film, we can tell exactly what was hit and how much damage is done.
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Uptown, It's nice to see you in the Training forum, it's a good place for you to start :)
Skuzzy, I am currently on and off searching through 50 films looking for the particular 10 second encounter.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the 30mm fire only HE shells?
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the 30mm fire only HE shells?
I believe so. It's been my experience that the vast majority of the time a 30mm hit from a 109K does catastrophic damage to a fighter. Most bombers can soak up a few rounds, but I have a difficult time hitting the same place twice. I have had fighters take a hit and suffer no visable damage and need to hit them again to get the big damage. I think it has to do with where I've hit the fighters...so nose hits I've smoked the engine but not killed it. I've also noticed it happening on a dead six tail shot. The IL2 is pretty tough and I usually attempt to get multiple hits on them (hold down the trigger for multiple rounds vs trying to fire just one round at a time.) I've never went back and reviewed the films of where I'm hitting when I don't end the fight with one hit. I've always assumed that the hit occured somewhere on the plane that didn't include any vital components....it is a pretty rare occurance though. On bombers it's pretty easy to see where I'm hitting....which is usually a string of shots on the body of the plane and in those cases it's easy to understand how they can take a lot of hits.
Zaphod
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Then wouldn't the 30mm have a relatively consistent effect against aircraft?
I mean with a 30mm HE round, I would think velocity would have a minimal effect on damage.
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IL-2 has wooden wings on some models :headscratch: not what sure what we have in AHII now. I know a Mossie XVI can take a few hits before they go down wooden wings also.
In particular watch the right drone it will drift to the left side & it takes several hits before it crashes.
From what I recall wood takes the punishment better than metal.
http://www.mediafire.com/download/7m26925d3d5z7xc/mossie_16_kills_with_262_0353.ahf (http://www.mediafire.com/download/7m26925d3d5z7xc/mossie_16_kills_with_262_0353.ahf)
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Then wouldn't the 30mm have a relatively consistent effect against aircraft?
I mean with a 30mm HE round, I would think velocity would have a minimal effect on damage.
If you consistently hit precisely the same spot, with the same round, from the same distance, and at the same angle, the effects will be consistent.
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Uptown, It's nice to see you in the Training forum, it's a good place for you to start :)
Skuzzy, I am currently on and off searching through 50 films looking for the particular 10 second encounter.
:lol :cheers:
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If you consistently hit precisely the same spot, with the same round, from the same distance, and at the same angle, the effects will be consistent.
I understand the hit location thing, but does distance abs angle make so much of a difference that it can affect the number by more than a round or two?
Please understand, I'm not arguing, I'm just trying to make sure I understand things correctly.
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I understand the hit location thing, but does distance abs angle make so much of a difference that it can affect the number by more than a round or two?
Please understand, I'm not arguing, I'm just trying to make sure I understand things correctly.
Yes, it can make a difference.
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I understand the hit location thing, but does distance abs angle make so much of a difference that it can affect the number by more than a round or two?
Please understand, I'm not arguing, I'm just trying to make sure I understand things correctly.
Basically as I understand it, damage is calculated based on relative speed of impact. If you're shooting a guy who's moving away from you, his speed relative to the bullet will be less than if he's coming toward you in a HO, and he'll take less damage.
Knowing that, your highest damage will be on an oncoming aircraft, followed by high speed passes on a plane that's either stopped or maneuvering at 90 degrees to you, followed by trailing shots.
I've noticed it can make an enormous difference hitting bombers from the front or top at high speed as opposed to from the rear barely gaining. I've made 12 o'clock high passes that just threw up a few sparks on the wingroot and taken it right off, which experience has shown me would've taken a lot more shots from the rear/top rear.
That I know of, the angle of the hit doesn't affect damage beyond how the planes are moving relative to each other. I'd be curious to know if that is the case or if the angle affects damage/penetration like it does with tanks.
Wiley.
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I knew that simple answer would bite me. And that is how it is. It really is not a simple system. There are far too many variables involved to be able to make simple statements about the damage system.
What makes it complex is the lack of any type of 'hit bubble'. The system actually uses the individual poly of a model to assess the damage, but the damage can also spread to surrounding polys, depending of many other variables.
There is not simple way to describe the interaction between the bullet and the consequence of its impact.
GV's are slightly different due to the need of more complex impact calculations in order to determine a breech of the surface being hit. Even saying that is not doing the system justice.
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I knew that simple answer would bite me. And that is how it is. It really is not a simple system. There are far too many variables involved to be able to make simple statements about the damage system.
What makes it complex is the lack of any type of 'hit bubble'. The system actually uses the individual poly of a model to assess the damage, but the damage can also spread to surrounding polys, depending of many other variables.
There is not simple way to describe the interaction between the bullet and the consequence of its impact.
GV's are slightly different due to the need of more complex impact calculations in order to determine a breech of the surface being hit. Even saying that is not doing the system justice.
Thanks, Skuzzy. Some of us probably spend way more time thinking about these things than we should. ;) It just fascinates me that it has the level of granularity it does. I'd love to hear the complex explanation someday.
Wiley.
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Well, whatever. The 30mm still pretty much ensures my target suffers catastrophic loss of life.
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I can't find the film, and I have looked up and down for it. Which is a pain in the tailend. I shall have to try and recreate it next time I see IL2 flying around.
But, with the 30mm being a chemical explosive, should the damage done be also the same at any distance?
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I can't find the film, and I have looked up and down for it. Which is a pain in the tailend. I shall have to try and recreate it next time I see IL2 flying around.
But, with the 30mm being a chemical explosive, should the damage done be also the same at any distance?
Not unless it's a proxy fuse. The round still has to impact, which will do some damage.
That being said, I would be mightily surprised to learn the impact does even a fraction of the damage done by the explosive filler.
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As I recall, Damage decreases with distance from target even with cannon rounds. However loss of damage done over distances is far less with a cannon round then a MG round.