Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Randy1 on October 21, 2013, 02:35:02 PM
-
I did some internet digging having some doubts about the P47's nickname coming from the shape of a milk jug or as we called them, milk cans. Juggernaut has equal or even greater footing
Jug does seem more likely to come from the British slang word for a large, heavy truck juggernaut. The milk jug thing to me is just too much of a stretch.
I can't pin down when the British started using the term Juggernaut for large heavy trucks. Anybody know?
-
:headscratch:
-
The Thunderbolt soon gained the nickname “Jug”, from its resemblance to a moon-shiner’s whiskey jug. On its arrival in Britain this nickname was apparently misunderstood as being short for “Juggernaut”.
http://www.historyofwar.org/articles/weapons_P-47.html
-
http://www.historyofwar.org/articles/weapons_P-47.html
I don't see the shape thing at all. It would be more likely I would think a derogatory term used by the British that was taken by Americans not as a big heavy truck but the other Webster def. "a massive inexorable force, campaign, movement, or object that crushes whatever is in its path."
A common term too for the cylinder is a jug. Who knows, someone could have said, "Look at all those jugs."
Could be though, in the production line, the motor and cowling could have arrived together n the assembly line , sitting on a pallet . Now that would have looked like a jug.
-
I don't see the shape thing at all.
Look at a P47 from the top, with the propeller at the bottom of the image and the tail at the top. It looks like an old-timey milk jug.
(http://www.top-flite.com/airplanes/topa0955-4view-lg.jpg)
-
no not really, if you want to stretch that idea....the fw-190 and the a6m and a few other planes all look like a jug of milk as well....pretty much any radial engined single seater does.....excluding the wings and tail of course.
-
When the first P-47s destined for the 49th FG arrived in Darwin, the ferry pilots taxied them to the transit ramp. As the pilots climbed out and slid down the wing they were greeted by Australian ground crews who were amazed at the size of the Thunderbolt.
As one pilot jumped off the wing, a ground crewman welcomed him and asked, "Welcome sir, where's the rest of your crew?"
-
Here is a picture of a milk jug or milk can as we called them. Milk bottles would have been more common.
http://www.photos.com/royalty-free-images/tin-milk-jug/87457937
-
I don't see the shape thing at all. It would be more likely I would think a derogatory term used by the British that was taken by Americans not as a big heavy truck but the other Webster def. "a massive inexorable force, campaign, movement, or object that crushes whatever is in its path."
A common term too for the cylinder is a jug. Who knows, someone could have said, "Look at all those jugs."
Could be though, in the production line, the motor and cowling could have arrived together n the assembly line , sitting on a pallet . Now that would have looked like a jug.
good try but...you're thinking too hard. it was a simpler time, people didn't complicate things beyond reason...
ww2 era milk bottles...commonly referred to as milk "jugs".
(http://www.milkbottlenews.org.uk/photos/images/wartime1.jpg)
-
When the first P-47s destined for the 49th FG arrived in Darwin, the ferry pilots taxied them to the transit ramp. As the pilots climbed out and slid down the wing they were greeted by Australian ground crews who were amazed at the size of the Thunderbolt.
As one pilot jumped off the wing, a ground crewman welcomed him and asked, "Welcome sir, where's the rest of your crew?"
The Jug bulges in the middle, the others don't.
-
good try but...you're thinking too hard. it was a simpler time, people didn't complicate things beyond reason...
ww2 era milk bottles...commonly referred to as milk "jugs".
(http://www.milkbottlenews.org.uk/photos/images/wartime1.jpg)
Not sure how old you are but I have pulled the cardboard plug on many a milk bottle. Milk, glass, bottles were never called jugs to my knowledge.
It would be interesting to pin down the first ear use of the term Jug. If it is before the British introduction, then Juggernaut becomes less likely as the source of the name.
When was the name Thunderbolt applied to the P47?
-
Not sure how old you are but I have pulled the cardboard plug on many a milk bottle. Milk, glass, bottles were never called jugs to my knowledge.
It would be interesting to pin down the first ear use of the term Jug. If it is before the British introduction, then Juggernaut becomes less likely as the source of the name.
When was the name Thunderbolt applied to the P47?
i'm 52 and that's what my father (born 1931) called the glass milk bottles when i was growing up as he spoke somewhat fondly of the things after the base exchange finally started selling milk in cardboard cartons...it may have just been a regional colloquialism since he was from the deep south and the only other people i ever heard refer to the glass bottles as jugs were from somewhere in the south.
as far as when the nickname got stuck on the p47, every reference i've been able to locate with any specific mention to the nickname shows it was some time prior to the first deliveries to england. no specific dates or anything. could be similar to the term "whole nine yards" that people believe was attributed to the length of .50cal ammunition belts for some u.s. fighters aircraft. one of those things were some unknown person said it once over a few beers and everyone who heard it continued saying it.
-
We called the glass milk bottles jugs in Kansas so not just a deep south thing.
-
I did some internet digging having some doubts about the P47's nickname coming from the shape of a milk jug or as we called them, milk cans. Juggernaut has equal or even greater footing
Jug does seem more likely to come from the British slang word for a large, heavy truck juggernaut. The milk jug thing to me is just too much of a stretch.
I can't pin down when the British started using the term Juggernaut for large heavy trucks. Anybody know?
:airplane: This is what I have heard in the past. Back in the 15th and 16th century, when milk was first being delivered to customers in England, the wageons that they carried the milk in were rough on anything carried, so they made the "milk Jugs" extra thick for toughness and you couldn't hardly break one on purpose. I heard that a Englishman, who observered after one of the "Jugs" returned after a mission, in his best English accent, "that bloody thing is tougher than a Jug".
Anybody know where the name "Mustang" came to be part of the P-51 series of aircraft? The English get credit for that, but it wasn't them that first coined the phase P-51 "Mustang".
-
Could be too it was a breasty gal walking in front of the P47 coming off the assembly line. :O
-
In the 1946 printed history of the 4th Fighter Group the author who was the Group PR Guy throughout the war, talks about the Thunderbolt and how it 'resembled a milk bottle" hence the term "Jug"
I think it's safe to say it started with the Former Eagle Squadron guys who had to give up the graceful looking Spitfire for the 7 ton monster that looked like a "Milk Bottle" to them. It was not a term of affection as they never felt much of it for the P-47. I doubt the 56th guys who trained in it and came overseas looking to fight in it, looked at the P-47 the same way :)
-
(http://popvictims.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/butelki-do-mleka-i-smietany.jpg?w=594)
-
In the 1946 printed history of the 4th Fighter Group the author who was the Group PR Guy throughout the war, talks about the Thunderbolt and how it 'resembled a milk bottle" hence the term "Jug"
I think it's safe to say it started with the Former Eagle Squadron guys who had to give up the graceful looking Spitfire for the 7 ton monster that looked like a "Milk Bottle" to them. It was not a term of affection as they never felt much of it for the P-47. I doubt the 56th guys who trained in it and came overseas looking to fight in it, looked at the P-47 the same way :)
That is interesting. Could be too, both Jug explanations could be true then. with a short time frame difference. If an American was using the term Jug, they were thinking of a milk jug or bottle. A Brit would take Jug meant a big heavy truck or Juggernaut. As noted neither term one of endearment.
-
I always thought that the RAF designated it as the Mustang as at the time (as is now) aircraft were named rather than given a prefix (for example the Pavina Tornado, Sepcat Jaguar , Hawker Hunter , EE Lightning , Vickers Viscount , Hawker Hurricane , Supermarine Spitfire ....ect. ) and that the USAAF adopted the name after they realised that it was a good plane and stopped poo pooing it .
-
:headscratch: when did anyone refer to the p-47 as the mustang? :headscratch:
-
:airplane: This is what I have heard in the past. Back in the 15th and 16th century, when milk was first being delivered to customers in England, the wageons that they carried the milk in were rough on anything carried, so they made the "milk Jugs" extra thick for toughness and you couldn't hardly break one on purpose. I heard that a Englishman, who observered after one of the "Jugs" returned after a mission, in his best English accent, "that bloody thing is tougher than a Jug".
Anybody know where the name "Mustang" came to be part of the P-51 series of aircraft? The English get credit for that, but it wasn't them that first coined the phase P-51 "Mustang".
there
-
there
:airplane: I swear I didn't make that up, I have been searching for the quote that I read and haven't found it yet, but I will keep looking!
-
Never gave this subject much attention but I have always thought that the P47 got the nickname because the frontal area looks like an old fashioned jug when viewed from above. Something like this:
(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTJt4LWgljJdi7uZsi6QTRRKKjJrMg1sPJJObXxtJ97yrJWW2ZZ)
(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcROtnnfuDrthsNWf5B2Mi36bqeI2FiyAXe9hnWKXP0SiQxdckmR)
After reading this topic I have a feeling that the moon-shiner’s whiskey jug had some part to play in this story. I bet the stuff it carried could make one see all kinds of things.
-
Never gave this subject much attention but I have always thought that the P47 got the nickname because the frontal area looks like an old fashioned jug when viewed from above. Something like this:
(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTJt4LWgljJdi7uZsi6QTRRKKjJrMg1sPJJObXxtJ97yrJWW2ZZ)
(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcROtnnfuDrthsNWf5B2Mi36bqeI2FiyAXe9hnWKXP0SiQxdckmR)
I'd call that a pitcher, not a jug.
But yeah, I see more of a resemblance with the P-47's frontal area, than to the overall fuselage to a milk jug.