Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: lyric1 on October 22, 2013, 01:02:50 PM
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I guess this was an option that was not used a lot.
Still would be a nice addition. :aok
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Dauntless%20SBD/SBDGUNPODS2_zps2f4c6ba6.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/Dauntless%20SBD/SBDGUNPODS2_zps2f4c6ba6.jpg.html)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Dauntless%20SBD/SBDGUNPODS_zps8bedc041.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/Dauntless%20SBD/SBDGUNPODS_zps8bedc041.jpg.html)
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I guess this was an option that was not used a lot.
Still would be a nice addition. :aok
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Dauntless%20SBD/SBDGUNPODS2_zps2f4c6ba6.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/Dauntless%20SBD/SBDGUNPODS2_zps2f4c6ba6.jpg.html)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Dauntless%20SBD/SBDGUNPODS_zps8bedc041.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/Dauntless%20SBD/SBDGUNPODS_zps8bedc041.jpg.html)
+1 :aok :aok
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+1 yes please
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Question is: How common was the pod?
If it was a rare loadout as indicated in the picture, it will likely end up heavily restricted, if used at all, in scenarios and FSO. And it's certainly not going to make the Dauntless see any more use in the Mains than it does already. The increased firepower certainly won't offset the loss of performance (the SBD is already fairly underpowered as it is, now you're adding extra weight and drag), and it you want a dive bomber with six Brownings off the carrier, you've already got the F4U-1D and F6F-5, both of which carry a much heavier ordinance load, combined with much better fighting ability once ordinance is dropped. I could see it getting heavy use in Early War (Mid War still gives you the F4U-1, which provides much the same punch as a 6-gun Dauntless but with much better performance) but that's about it.
It might be a nice option to have for whenever the SBD gets remodeled, but it should really be low on the priority list. And certainly a perked ordinance option for the rarity.
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Question is: How common was the pod?
If it was a rare loadout as indicated in the picture, it will likely end up heavily restricted, if used at all, in scenarios and FSO. And it's certainly not going to make the Dauntless see any more use in the Mains than it does already. The increased firepower certainly won't offset the loss of performance (the SBD is already fairly underpowered as it is, now you're adding extra weight and drag), and it you want a dive bomber with six Brownings off the carrier, you've already got the F4U-1D and F6F-5, both of which carry a much heavier ordinance load, combined with much better fighting ability once ordinance is dropped. I could see it getting heavy use in Early War (Mid War still gives you the F4U-1, which provides much the same punch as a 6-gun Dauntless but with much better performance) but that's about it.
It might be a nice option to have for whenever the SBD gets remodeled, but it should really be low on the priority list. And certainly a perked ordinance option for the rarity.
According to this article (http://www.history.navy.mil/branches/hist-ac/sbd-5.pdf) that appeared in the Naval Aviation News, it wasn't used very often at all and rockets were most often used. I guess maybe the experiments with the gun pods found that the rockets were more effective than the .50 caliber gun pods.
ack-ack
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According to this article (http://www.history.navy.mil/branches/hist-ac/sbd-5.pdf) that appeared in the Naval Aviation News, it wasn't used very often at all and rockets were most often used. I guess maybe the experiments with the gun pods found that the rockets were more effective than the .50 caliber gun pods.
ack-ack
Guess it depends on what books you read in regards to rockets.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Dauntless%20SBD/sbdrockets_zpsbcc8715f.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/Dauntless%20SBD/sbdrockets_zpsbcc8715f.jpg.html)
Plus it says the pods did see combat not just experimental.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Dauntless%20SBD/sbddocument_zpsbf682fe7.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/Dauntless%20SBD/sbddocument_zpsbf682fe7.jpg.html)
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Question is: How common was the pod?
Valid question. :aok
Better question yet is how many rounds could it hold? What is the rate of fire for these things?
Unable to find much about them yet. Without some known basics of these pods I would say not much HTC can do without some facts about them.
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+1
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Found a little more on the pods.
Wish I could read that plate on the side of the ammo box. :cry
Based off of the photo I wonder if the TBM used them other than testing?
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Dauntless%20SBD/Seawolf201_zpsf43774f8.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/Dauntless%20SBD/Seawolf201_zpsf43774f8.jpg.html)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Dauntless%20SBD/Seawolf202_zps3ef30a7d.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/Dauntless%20SBD/Seawolf202_zps3ef30a7d.jpg.html)
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The plot thickens also in service in the ETO. :rock
http://www.fold3.com/document/32443843/
Interestingly with the 36th BOMB SQUADRON RCM as a formation plane for the radar jamming bombers. :headscratch: Have to wonder why it was carrying these pods as a formation plane?
http://36rcm.com/history/history.htm
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Dauntless%20SBD/p51-36bs_zps8c9be311.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/Dauntless%20SBD/p51-36bs_zps8c9be311.jpg.html)
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Interesting, and thanks for the pics Lyric. Maybe the stang w/ pods was to shoot up damaged ecm bombers to avoid having the Germans discover the tech?
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Interesting, and thanks for the pics Lyric. Maybe the stang w/ pods was to shoot up damaged ecm bombers to avoid having the Germans discover the tech?
Not sure what the pony is about the link says it was a squadron hack on the 36TH bomb squadron rcm. Why would you put gun pods on a squadron hack? Your answer is a good possibility I did not know of formation planes flying to target though. I was thinking that since it was a squadron hack the original 4 guns had been removed & the gun ports sealed over.
Then since this bomb squadron did the work they did at night maybe some German night fighters came across the channel looking for them while they were forming up. If so they decided to arm up the pony with these gun pods just so they could defend the bombers while forming. Would kind of like to know for sure on this just to see how common these pods actually were in WWII.
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I found the patent on this item has several pages explaining a lot about it.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Dauntless%20SBD/dgp-1pat1_zps8250e828.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/Dauntless%20SBD/dgp-1pat1_zps8250e828.jpg.html)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Dauntless%20SBD/dpg-1pat2_zps849e4965.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/Dauntless%20SBD/dpg-1pat2_zps849e4965.jpg.html)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Dauntless%20SBD/dpg-1pat3_zpsd1d57a84.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/Dauntless%20SBD/dpg-1pat3_zpsd1d57a84.jpg.html)
The link from the US patent office.
http://pdfpiw.uspto.gov/.piw?PageNum=0&docid=02493945&IDKey=43E251461803&HomeUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fpatft.uspto.gov%2Fnetacgi%2Fnph-Parser%3FSect1%3DPTO1%2526Sect2%3DHITOFF%2526d%3DPALL%2526p%3D1%2526u%3D%2525252Fnetahtml%2525252FPTO%2525252Fsrchnum.htm%2526r%3D1%2526f%3DG%2526l%3D50%2526s1%3D2493945.PN.%2526OS%3DPN%2F2493945%2526RS%3D
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SB2C as well. :aok
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Dauntless%20SBD/33-c92031fa35_zps14c552bc.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/Dauntless%20SBD/33-c92031fa35_zps14c552bc.jpg.html)
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SB2C; yes please. It had 20s
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I bought a book that this photo was in & I thought it was a photo of a TBM.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Dauntless%20SBD/Seawolf201_zpsf43774f8.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/Dauntless%20SBD/Seawolf201_zpsf43774f8.jpg.html)
Well it's not a TBM it is a TBY-2.
On one of the pages it lists the ammo per pod so I have that bit of info now. :rock
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Dauntless%20SBD/img197_zpsc2825884.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/Dauntless%20SBD/img197_zpsc2825884.jpg.html)
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Brief note of usage of the pod from a pilot of VB-20 that was on the Enterprise.
http://www.cv6.org/company/accounts/bbarnes/default.htm
The SB2C-3's that came out were much improved. From my experience it was a great dive bomber. It was faster than the SBD, easily carried 1000 lb bombs, and could carry drop fuel tanks for long range missions. On one mission they needed more planes to strafe an airfield, so they hung two pods of dual .50-cal machine guns under our wings. These were in addition to the two 20mm cannons and the 500 lb bomb already on our Helldivers. It was a very versatile aircraft.
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The Greeks used the pods as well in their civil war on SB2C's also.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_Civil_War
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Dauntless%20SBD/xzhelldiver_2_zpsdce759bf.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/Dauntless%20SBD/xzhelldiver_2_zpsdce759bf.jpg.html)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Dauntless%20SBD/xheldiver_zps67300b23.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/Dauntless%20SBD/xheldiver_zps67300b23.jpg.html)
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Guess the Marines used the pods as well this book lists them as an option on the SBD-5.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Dauntless%20SBD/MarineAirTheHistoryofthe156_f_zps5717e52f.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/Dauntless%20SBD/MarineAirTheHistoryofthe156_f_zps5717e52f.jpg.html)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Dauntless%20SBD/gunpods_zps89487090.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/Dauntless%20SBD/gunpods_zps89487090.jpg.html)
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The plot thickens also in service in the ETO. :rock
Interestingly with the 36th BOMB SQUADRON RCM as a formation plane for the radar jamming bombers. :headscratch: Have to wonder why it was carrying these pods as a formation plane?
Maybe for strafing once the bombers released their bombs.
Were these gun pods the same ones used on some A-26s?
ack-ack
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Maybe for strafing once the bombers released their bombs.
Were these gun pods the same ones used on some A-26s?
ack-ack
No they are not the same. I have not found a part number for the A-26 gun pods. Both pods were made by Douglas.
The ones on the A-26 are a different shape & mounting system to the DGP-1.
I have found the operating manual for the DGP-1 & parts list. Just waiting on it's arrival.
Soon as I get it I will post it. :aok
Here is a few pictures of the pod set up on the A-26.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Dauntless%20SBD/A-26-pack-guns_zps39f53a39.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/Dauntless%20SBD/A-26-pack-guns_zps39f53a39.jpg.html)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Dauntless%20SBD/Evaluation20A-26203_zpsda5cee74.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/Dauntless%20SBD/Evaluation20A-26203_zpsda5cee74.jpg.html)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Dauntless%20SBD/J_20Wheeler820Collection_zps23410433.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/Dauntless%20SBD/J_20Wheeler820Collection_zps23410433.jpg.html)
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+1
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Lyric, is this the same gun pod that is shown mounted on a P-38 Droop Snoot?
(http://clubhyper.com/images/12%20-%20P-38L%20Droop%20Snoot%20-%2043-56281%20-%2024%20Aug%201945%20-%20Package%20gun,%20outer%20wing,%20right%20-%20568-11.jpg)
ack-ack
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Lyric, is this the same gun pod that is shown mounted on a P-38 Droop Snoot?
(http://clubhyper.com/images/12%20-%20P-38L%20Droop%20Snoot%20-%2043-56281%20-%2024%20Aug%201945%20-%20Package%20gun,%20outer%20wing,%20right%20-%20568-11.jpg)
ack-ack
It sure looks like it! Cool pic Ack!!
:salute
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Lyric, is this the same gun pod that is shown mounted on a P-38 Droop Snoot?
(http://clubhyper.com/images/12%20-%20P-38L%20Droop%20Snoot%20-%2043-56281%20-%2024%20Aug%201945%20-%20Package%20gun,%20outer%20wing,%20right%20-%20568-11.jpg)
ack-ack
Yes it is by the look of it.
First time I have seen the rear of one you can just see the barrel sticking out of the front of it. These things seem to be more common than what I thought. A good choice for the droop snoot P38.
Where did you find that photo?
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Yes it is by the look of it.
First time I have seen the rear of one you can just see the barrel sticking out of the front of it. These things seem to be more common than what I thought. A good choice for the droop snoot P38.
Where did you find that photo?
This modeling (http://clubhyper.com/reference/showandtell3droopsnootdb_1.htm) site. It has a series of pictures taken of a Droop Snoot at the Lockheed modification plant.
ack-ack
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Scary 12 gunned P38. :O
http://www.joebaugher.com/usaf_fighters/p38_15.html
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Dauntless%20SBD/P38-gunpods_zpsd0c4c13b.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/Dauntless%20SBD/P38-gunpods_zpsd0c4c13b.jpg.html)
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Well have just about all you would need to know for writing code for the DGP-1 gun pod. :aok
Weights,dimensions,drag,convergence all of it. :rock
http://www.scribd.com/doc/191570148/Douglas-DGP-1-Twin-50-Cal-Gun-Package
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Well have just about all you would need to know for writing code for the DGP-1 gun pod. :aok
Weights,dimensions,drag,convergence all of it. :rock
http://www.scribd.com/doc/191570148/Douglas-DGP-1-Twin-50-Cal-Gun-Package
Cool data. It says speed loss of 9 mph when carrying two pods and 4 mph increase in stall speed. The SBD is so slow that 9 mph loss is meaningless. Only question is weight - it says 450 lbs with max ammo load, but not clear if this is for one pod or total for both. In the latter case, it could still be somewhat useful in dogfighting. If the former, it would make the SBD a total dog.
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Scary 12 gunned P38. :O
http://www.joebaugher.com/usaf_fighters/p38_15.html
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Dauntless%20SBD/P38-gunpods_zpsd0c4c13b.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/Dauntless%20SBD/P38-gunpods_zpsd0c4c13b.jpg.html)
Do not give this to akak :bolt:
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Cool data. It says speed loss of 9 mph when carrying two pods and 4 mph increase in stall speed. The SBD is so slow that 9 mph loss is meaningless. Only question is weight - it says 450 lbs with max ammo load, but not clear if this is for one pod or total for both. In the latter case, it could still be somewhat useful in dogfighting. If the former, it would make the SBD a total dog.
450 LBS is per pod max ammo.
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450 LBS is per pod max ammo.
Eeeewww... 900 lbs for the pods. Bad trade off for a2a and 0.5s are not very good for strafing.
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Eeeewww... 900 lbs for the pods. Bad trade off for a2a and 0.5s are not very good for strafing.
From what I have found so far that they were used mainly for ground attack strafing with regards to naval aircraft. Real life of course were .50 cals had meaning unlike AHII. The part that has me curious is what else did these pods get put on? The photo of the B pony is interesting that it is in the European theater.
That part of figuring out who bought them & where were they all used will be hard to find if not near impossible. The fact that they could jettison them if they chose to may explain why so few photos exist of combat aircraft with them attached. :headscratch:
Or just not that many were made.
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I know on the P-38 Droop Snoot, the intended idea with the gun pods was to allow the Droop Snoot to strafe the target after dropping bombs.
ack-ack
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I know on the P-38 Droop Snoot, the intended idea with the gun pods was to allow the Droop Snoot to strafe the target after dropping bombs.
ack-ack
If it is going to go down low to strafe, why not just use a normal P-38 and dive bomb it?
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If it is going to go down low to strafe, why not just use a normal P-38 and dive bomb it?
That's what I was thinking since the primary use of the Droop Snoot was to lead standard P-38s in bombing targets that were considered too risky for dive bombing. I guess that's why ultimately the gun pods were probably never used on the Droop Snoot.
ack-ack
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Bearcat as well.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Dauntless%20SBD/grum1149F8F-1inhangergunpods1_zps6197554c.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/Dauntless%20SBD/grum1149F8F-1inhangergunpods1_zps6197554c.jpg.html)
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Lockheed Ventura PV-2 Harpoon.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Dauntless%20SBD/gunpod_zps55a610fc.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/Dauntless%20SBD/gunpod_zps55a610fc.jpg.html)
Plus I found this photo on a Greek web page.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Dauntless%20SBD/iz2qNqU_zps9e4c35d9.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/Dauntless%20SBD/iz2qNqU_zps9e4c35d9.jpg.html)
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I know on the P-38 Droop Snoot, the intended idea with the gun pods was to allow the Droop Snoot to strafe the target after dropping bombs.
ack-ack
That would have been a terrifying view for the bombardier.
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An SBD...... with 6 50cals...........
The Troll Patrol approves this wish.
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That would have been a terrifying view for the bombardier.
I would love to exsperience this.
Oh what fun it would be minus the getting shot at part
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It seems Douglas was looking to use these pods on just about all it's late war designs based off of the drawings they did.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Dauntless%20SBD/28-1cd433f442_zps85e6168a.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/Dauntless%20SBD/28-1cd433f442_zps85e6168a.jpg.html)
http://aircraft.wikia.com/wiki/Douglas_XTBD2_Skypirate
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how much ammo could these pods hold?
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how much ammo could these pods hold?
From a link I posted earlier in this thread.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/191570148/Douglas-DGP-1-Twin-50-Cal-Gun-Package
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Dauntless%20SBD/6-33e99cdc8b_zps2331c446.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/Dauntless%20SBD/6-33e99cdc8b_zps2331c446.jpg.html)
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Scary 12 gunned P38. :O
http://www.joebaugher.com/usaf_fighters/p38_15.html
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Dauntless%20SBD/P38-gunpods_zpsd0c4c13b.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/Dauntless%20SBD/P38-gunpods_zpsd0c4c13b.jpg.html)
OMG GIMME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 49th FG would love to have these in game
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Another view of the 12 gun P-38.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Dauntless%20SBD/P38DGP-1_zps6328ceed.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/Dauntless%20SBD/P38DGP-1_zps6328ceed.jpg.html)
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Armed recon P-38.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Dauntless%20SBD/15203127_10209819300393523_1733913412597757239_n_zpsj9owod5g.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/Dauntless%20SBD/15203127_10209819300393523_1733913412597757239_n_zpsj9owod5g.jpg.html)