Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Kazan_HB on October 29, 2013, 01:34:00 PM
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The Polish Operation of the NKVD in 1937–1938 was a Soviet Great Purge-era mass operation against purported Polish agents in the Soviet Union, explicitly ordered against Polish spies, but interpreted by the NKVD as relating to "absolutely all Poles". It resulted in the sentencing of 139,835 people and the execution of 111,091 Poles, and those accused of working for Poland. The operation was implemented according to NKVD Order № 00485 signed by Nikolai Yezhov. Not all, but the majority were ethnic Poles according to Timothy Snyder: 85,000 is given by him as a "conservative estimate" of the number of executed Poles. The remainder being 'suspected' to be Polish without further inquiry.
NKVD personnel gathered Polish-sounding names from local telephone books in order to speed up the process. In Leningrad alone, almost 7,000 citizens were rounded up. A vast majority of them were executed within 10 days of arrest. In the fourteen months after the adoption of Order № 00485, 143,810 people were captured, of whom 139,885 were sentenced by extrajudical organs, and 111,091 executed (nearly 80% of all victims).
It was the largest ethnic shooting and deportation action during the Great Terror.
more... (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Polish_Operation_of_the_NKVD_%281937%E2%80%931938%29)
Uncle Joe
(http://www.poranny.pl/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=KP&Date=20120913&Category=BIALYSTOK&ArtNo=120919760&Ref=AR&border=0&MaxW=580)
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Everyone knows this :old:
The Germans were more efficient at doing it in later years :old:
Pilsudski?
Lets talk about him for a bit :old:
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_massacre
1973 video about it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JW20VO8xkr4
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_events_named_massacres
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Everyone knows this :old:
The Germans were more efficient at doing it in later years :old:
Pilsudski?
Lets talk about him for a bit :old:
Do you think this is about the Katyn Massacre? Katyn was in 1940. :old:
This was in 1937, two years before war.
What do you know about Pilsudski?
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having a difficult time figuring out what the point is...such events have occurred throughout human history, large and small scale.
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Stalin was Hitler with a bigger mustache.
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Stalin was Hitler with a bigger mustache.
Without question. Kazan, thank you for posting that.
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nonsense :old:
All i read about Kazan's perspective is always one sided :old:
Yes the Germans and Russians were nationalistic :old:
Not once has he dicussed Polands territorial ambitions during the 1920's
In Britain we are quite aware what we got up to in history :)
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Stalin was Hitler with a bigger mustache.
wrong there's a big difference. hitler wanted some people he thought were inferior to the german race dead. staling was so paranoid he wanted everybody dead.
see the thing about stalin killing the poles is that it was just in the middle of a massacre that lasted for years.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Purge
semp
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Not once has he dicussed Polands territorial ambitions during the 1920's
it wasn't just in the 1920s either...
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it wasn't just in the 1920s either...
Sure, in 1939 we invaded peaceful Germany and Soviet Union... :uhoh
1920 we had alliance with the Ukraine here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Warsaw_%281920%29) :old:
Attacker was Soviet Union :old:
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Sure, in 1939 we invaded peaceful Germany and Soviet Union... :uhoh
1920 we had alliance with the Ukraine here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Warsaw_%281920%29) :old:
Attacker was Soviet Union :old:
what about 1018, 1605-1618?
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wrong there's a big difference. hitler wanted some people he thought were inferior to the german race dead. staling was so paranoid he wanted everybody dead.
The difference is that Hitler was German so he was very methodical and organized about his killings. Stalin being Russian just improvised as he went along. That and the mustache.
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Ah yes, evil Poland. http://youtu.be/eAVVWlUywO0 (http://youtu.be/eAVVWlUywO0) poor Stalin never had a chance, and please pass a tissue to blot away my tears for noble Hitler.
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Kazan admit one thing that Poland has done that is questionable :)
The fact is you are unable to.
I have worked with 15 Polish workers in the UK and it was hilarious listening to their world views.
The fact of the matter is many eastern European countries have a lot to say when basically they shouldn't.
Why do you think Poland is in the EU because everyone wanted to be nice to Poland?
The reason is the same as Serbia being in the EU, when your linked to the financial and economic union you cannot go jumping about and start being Nationalists. :old:
And don't deny Poland is very nationalistic. :old:
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Kazan admit one thing that Poland has done that is questionable :)
The fact is you are unable to.
I have worked with 15 Polish workers in the UK and it was hilarious listening to their world views.
The fact of the matter is many eastern European countries have a lot to say when basically they shouldn't.
Why do you think Poland is in the EU because everyone wanted to be nice to Poland?
The reason is the same as Serbia being in the EU, when your linked to the financial and economic union you cannot go jumping about and start being Nationalists. :old:
And don't deny Poland is very nationalistic. :old:
So Poland deserved what they got?
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I have not forgotten. England betrayed us two times 1939 and 1943... :old:
After war British government made statements to us. Exactly we paid for everything.
Aircraft, armour..etc, and each bullets.
We do not need any invitation to the EU. We are in Europe for thousands of years. :old:
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Name ONE thing Poland has done which is Questionable :old:
You are unable to :old:
I will name two things which Britain has done which is questionable
(1) The Slave Trade
(2) Oppressing the Aboriginals in Australia
The Germans
(1) Genocide
The Turks
(1) Ethic cleansing of the Armenians
Now you just highlight one questionable incident Poland has committed.
You mentally cannot do it, which is appalling :old:
What happened in 1943?
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Name ONE thing Poland has done which is Questionable :old:
You are unable to :old:
I will name two things which Britain has done which is questionable
(1) The Slave Trade
(2) Oppressing the Aboriginals in Australia
The Germans
(1) Genocide
The Turks
(1) Ethic cleansing of the Armenians
Now you just highlight one questionable incident Poland has committed.
You mentally cannot do it, which is appalling :old:
What happened in 1943?
1943 Tehran Conference. Do you don't know history your country?!
Please say this one thing... i will learn about my country :)
well i know dark thing from England history too :old:
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1943 Tehran Conference. Do you don't know history your country?!
Please say this one thing... i will learn about my country :)
well i know dark thing from England history too :old:
No he doesn't.
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Name ONE thing Poland has done which is Questionable
....hummmm.....
...1920, invading USSR in the middle of their civil war....
...1935, Camp of National Unity...
...1938, Teschen.....
...1942, Jews rising up in Warsaw, what's to do about that?....
The Poles had their issues.
- oldman
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1943 Tehran conferance :old:
How do you think the British got thier Empire Kazan?
We left you to the Russians to appease them :old:
As i have stated you will NOT critisize or question any of Polands actions in the 1920's because you are incapable of doing so :)
Oldman please dont distract Kazan from his world view.
Mention the Nazi Soviet pact to a Russian and they will do the same as Kazan, they wont discuss it
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1) 1919 -1920 no state recognize the Soviet Union, don't forget it! :old:
2) Soviet was aggressor!
3) Who lived in Soviet ? The russians or the aliens?
4) from wiki "Czechoslovak-Polish conflict in 1919
Poland-Czechoslovakia war 1919
In January 1919 a war erupted between Second Polish Republic and First Czechoslovak Republic over the Cieszyn Silesia area in Silesia. The Czechoslovak government in Prague requested that the Poles cease their preparations for national parliamentary elections in the area that had been designated Polish in the interim agreement as no sovereign rule was to be executed in the disputed areas. The Polish government declined and the Czechoslovak side decided to stop the preparations by force. Czechoslovak troops entered area managed by Polish interim body on January 23. Czechoslovak troops gained the upper hand over the weaker Polish units. The majority of Polish forces were engaged in fighting with the West Ukrainian National Republic over eastern Galicia at that time. Czechoslovakia was forced to stop the advance by the Entente, and Czechoslovakia and Poland were compelled to sign a new demarcation line on February 3, 1919 in Paris.
At the Paris Peace Conference (1919), Poland requested northwesternmost Spiš (including the region around Javorina).
Negotiations of the 1920s
A final line was set up at the Spa Conference in Belgium. On July 28, 1920, the western part of the disputed territory was given to Czechoslovakia while Poland received the eastern part, thus creating a Zaolzie with a substantial Polish minority.
Edvard Beneš also agreed to cede to Poland 13 villages (especially Nowa Biała, Jurgów and Niedzica; 195 km˛; pop. 8747) in northwestern Spiš and 12 villages in northeastern Orava (around Jabłonka; 389 km˛; pop. 16133), in matter of fact the Czechoslovak authorities officially regarded their inhabitants as exclusively Slovak, while Poles pointed out that the dialect used there belonged to Polish language. The Polish government was not satisfied with this results.
The conflict was only resolved by the Council of the League of Nations (International Court of Justice) on 12 March 1924, which decided that Czechoslovakia should retain the territory of Javorina and Ždiar and which entailed (in the same year) an additional exchange of territories in Orava - the territory around Nižná Lipnica went to Poland, the territory around Suchá Hora and Hladovka went to Czechoslovakia. The new frontiers were confirmed by a Czechoslovak-Polish Treaty on 24 April 1925 and are identical with present-day borders.
5) Munich Agreement do you know it? :old:
6) 1943 Warsaw Ghetto Uprising not 1942! :old:
1943 Poland was under German occupation ! :old:
ok but for you : Support from outside the Ghetto was limited, but Polish Resistance units from the mainstream Home Army (Armia Krajowa, AK) and the communist Polish Workers' Party's militia People's Guard (Gwardia Ludowa, GL) attacked German units near the Ghetto walls and attempted to smuggle weapons, ammunition, supplies, and instructions into the Ghetto.
Zegota (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%BBegota)
ZZW (http://)
Tired
I do not understand you. I just want to show unknown history ...
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(http://i819.photobucket.com/albums/zz115/William_Duenskie/jon-stewart-popcorn11.gif) (http://s819.photobucket.com/user/William_Duenskie/media/jon-stewart-popcorn11.gif.html)
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Its not unknown history :old:
Stalin murdered all the Polish elites :old:
The Allies allowed Stalin to anex Poland into the Communist sphere :old:
Poland got well and truly stuffed :old:
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6) 1943 Warsaw Ghetto Uprising not 1942! :old:
1943 Poland was under German occupation ! :old:
ok but for you : Support from outside the Ghetto was limited, but Polish Resistance units from the mainstream Home Army (Armia Krajowa, AK) and the communist Polish Workers' Party's militia People's Guard (Gwardia Ludowa, GL) attacked German units near the Ghetto walls and attempted to smuggle weapons, ammunition, supplies, and instructions into the Ghetto.
Some Poles, especially the resistance types accepted anyone. Most of the rest were antisemitic to the bone.
Both my grandfathers were polish Jews. One was attacked in his home by a mob, stabbed and thrown off the balcony while his house was looted by a Polish mob (under the German occupation). What hurt him more than the stab and the fall was the fact that the mob were people he knew from his neighborhood. He made his peace with modern Germany but hated the poles till the day he died. The other grandfather survived the war in a labor camp in poland. After the war he couldn't stand it any longer and emigrated. His son, my father, grew up in Poland till he was 6. He did not know he was a Jew till they emigrated, but he remembers as a child that Jew (Jid?) was a common cursing word.
By the way, the first grandfather made it across the lines into Russia and spent the war there. Soon after he came to the conclusion that the Russians were just as antisemitic as the Poles, and made it our of there. So in the contest who was worse the Poles or the Russians, both win.
Yes, Poland was royally screwed by the allies. One must learn to never fully trust the western powers and never turn your back to them. They have been known to sell their smaller allies for cheap. They still do.
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Bozon its a outrage!
I have reported you for something :)
Kazan has nothing to say about pograms in eastern europe :old:
Ask a japanese person about how badly they treated in the war :old:
Winston Churchill was awesome and was even half colonial :old:
We invented the US as well :old:
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1 Bozon its a outrage!
2 I have reported you for something :)
3 Kazan has nothing to say about pograms in eastern europe :old:
4 Ask a japanese person about how badly they treated in the war :old:
5 Winston Churchill was awesome and was even half colonial :old:
6 We invented the US as well :old:
1. I agree! here here! :furious
2. Hang the witch!!!! :D
3. Programs? :headscratch:
4. A missunderstanding. :old:
5. Fantastic! That would explain Winnie's love of American football and pop tarts! :cheers:
6. The UK's greatest accomplishment aside from clearing up that whole prime meridian thingie! :aok
Tootles
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I dunno. I'm still trying to figure out if this thread has a point or serves a function. :headscratch:
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I dunno. I'm still trying to figure out if this thread has a point or serves a function. :headscratch:
No to both. I'm out.
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I dunno. I'm still trying to figure out if this thread has a point or serves a function. :headscratch:
Its for me to write gibberish :)
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Some Poles, especially the resistance types accepted anyone. Most of the rest were antisemitic to the bone.
Both my grandfathers were polish Jews. One was attacked in his home by a mob, stabbed and thrown off the balcony while his house was looted by a Polish mob (under the German occupation). What hurt him more than the stab and the fall was the fact that the mob were people he knew from his neighborhood. He made his peace with modern Germany but hated the poles till the day he died. The other grandfather survived the war in a labor camp in poland. After the war he couldn't stand it any longer and emigrated. His son, my father, grew up in Poland till he was 6. He did not know he was a Jew till they emigrated, but he remembers as a child that Jew (Jid?) was a common cursing word.
By the way, the first grandfather made it across the lines into Russia and spent the war there. Soon after he came to the conclusion that the Russians were just as antisemitic as the Poles, and made it our of there. So in the contest who was worse the Poles or the Russians, both win.
Yes, Poland was royally screwed by the allies. One must learn to never fully trust the western powers and never turn your back to them. They have been known to sell their smaller allies for cheap. They still do.
You are liar Boson or dumb
I don't talk with racist like you.
Get out from my thread!
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yes Bozon
Its all made up what you said :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
Japan never invaded China or went into Nanking.
The Germans never started the second world war as well it was the French. :rofl :rofl :rofl
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During World War II, on 24 March 1944, the German police shot the Ulm family and two Jewish families - the Szalls and Goldmans.
Most of the rest were antisemitic to the bone.
picture to Polish antisemitic rabble.
(http://ipn.gov.pl/__data/assets/thumbnail/0008/79667/2-1001.jpg)
Józef and Wiktoria Ulm lived in Markowa, a village about 300 km away from Warsaw. Joseph was a farmer, also interested in photography, gardening, silkworm breeding, machinery construction. He was also active in the youth and cooperative movements. Wiktoria took care of home and children: Staś, Basia, Władzio, Franuś, Antoś, Marysia.
When World War II broke out it was clear that first the Nazis planned to exterminate the entire Jewish community. Most of them perished in concentration camps in 1942. Poles attitude towards Jews varied. However, with the help of the Underground Polish State, Catholic priests, religious orders and ordinary citizens tens of thousands of Jews were rescued.
In Markowa large part of the local Jewish community was murdered on the spot. Some escaped and hid in peasants’ homes. 25 Jews were hiding in 6 huts. Two families - Szalls and Goldmans - were hidden by the Ulms. It was great heroism. In occupied Poland, in contrast to Western Europe, helping Jews was punishable with death.
Punitive expedition of the German police appeared in Markowa on 24 March 1944. All household members, including the hidden Jews were shot.
In 1995 Józef and Wiktoria were included to the Righteous Among the Nations. In 2003 the Catholic Church began the beatification process of the Ulm family. In 2004 a monument was unveiled. Also a museum devoted to Poles saving Jews is under construction in Markowa.
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Kazan is right there was little cooperation with the Germans by the Polish.
We have just locked a Ukrainian up for 40 years for killing a Asian bloke, he wanted to kill Muslims and because there were none in the Ukraine he came to the UK.
He was here for five days planted 5 bombs and then killed some one,
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Who Defended The Warsaw Ghetto? (http://www.freeman.org/m_online/may03/arens.htm) from Jerusalem Post
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You need to calm down Kazan and don't take things to serious :)
This is cartoon land so we are obviously daft :)
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Kazan is merely telling it like it is/was.
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According to someone who is Polish :)
We have massive Polish immigrant population in the UK.
The main reason according to the Poles i have worked with is as follows:
1. We are in the UK because British people are lazy
2. Bread in the UK is poo
3. We were betrayed by everyone
4. Poland is fantastic
5. Russia is poo but better than the UK
The Polish chicks are very nice to be honest :)
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Bozon,
Why do you suppose there was such a large Jewish population in Poland before WWII ?
Without the doubt there was a wide antisemitism present in Poland before the war, I would however argue that it was present in all the nations at that time ( and to some extend still is).
I think reason why Kazan is so worked up on the subject is the notion that poles were just as bad as Nazis - being propagated thought the media. "Polish death camps" shows up in news on regular basis, and many Jewish organizations in US seem very absorbed in making this fact visible.
It is offending and not fair. Millions of Jews died here, and many of them were poles who were deemed Jewish by name or appearance. Millions of poles died. Many poles were executed for trying to save Jewish families. In my own family I have son of a Jew who was hidden by polish family for 3+ years.
It ain't black and white.
Painting polish people as oppressors and putting them inline with nazis is insulting, that's all. Undeniably there was antisemitism in Poland, however painting with broad strokes isn't justified. It leads to idiocy such as BBC reporting before Euro 2012.
And once again, study why Poland in 1939 had majority of the Jewish population on the planet present within its borders. Maybe that will provide perspective.
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And once again, study why Poland in 1939 had majority of the Jewish population on the planet present within its borders. Maybe that will provide perspective.
In the early middle ages Polish kings welcomed Jews into their country. Poland-Lithuania back then was such a huge improvement over what the rest of Europe had to offer that many flocked there. More waves came after the exile of the Jews from England (1270?) and especially from Spain (1492), as well as smaller waves in between. The kings were interested in the trade Jews brought with them. In late medieval periods and on things started to head down hill for the Jews in Poland.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Poland
It is not that Poland was so terrible compared to other European countries, but still antisemitism was wide spread among the commoners and Jews lived under the protection of the rulers that needed them. At least there Pogroms were not as common as they were to the east.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pogrom
And yes, quite a few were more accepting towards the Jews especially among the higher classes and educated, and many saved Jews during WWII, but they were not the bulk of the population.
In no way am I comparing Polish antisemitism to Nazi methodical extermination. As I emphasized, my grandfather hated the Poles because "they" betrayed him, NOT because they incinerated in factories almost everyone he knew, was related to, or cared about.
This is the point to make absolutely clear that that was 70 years and two generations ago. None of the above is personal. I have no problem with Poland or Poles this day and age. I also have no problem with modern Germany and Germans - I even lived and worked there for 3 years and loved it. WWII is in the past where it should stay.
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This is the point to make absolutely clear that that was 70 years and two generations ago. None of the above is personal. I have no problem with Poland or Poles this day and age. I also have no problem with modern Germany and Germans - I even lived and worked there for 3 years and loved it. WWII is in the past where it should stay.
Clearly you do not understand that Europe is the place where old grudges never die.
- oldman
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Clearly you do not understand that Europe is the place where old grudges never die.
Not thinking Europe is unique in that.
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Eastern Europe will never change :old:
The EU builds roads and the IMF stops them riding donkeys :old:
Greece was the same, build them roads, give them IMF loans, they cant go back to riding donkeys.
Ireland exactly the same, they did not have freeways until the 90's and of course the UK was to blame for it
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Ah, but an Irish donkey is a sight to behold.
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_ommJ8ObgxJI/SOTqKtmpq4I/AAAAAAAAA64/TKpS76rtY_I/s1600/woman+and+cart.jpg)
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What do you people have against donkeys?
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Thank you for rational conversation bozon.
To add on the subject, when i write about certain victim complex that poles feel those days when media accuse them of antisemitism - and usually tie it into before 1939 timeframe - it feels like being singled out. Russia had a far larger history of pogroms and antisemitism. Many other european countries treated their Jewish populations far worst. Yet if you go by news reporting those days - it seem that antisemitism was only present in nazi germany and pre-war Poland. That's all.
As for the antisemitism itself (and by no means am I trying to justify it - heck there is a pretty good chance I have Jewish ancestors on both sides of the family :D ) - large Jewish population at the time did not integrate well into its surroundings. They did not speak the language, they did not accept customs. Some of them refused the allegiance and service (some, many served honorably in Polish military forces). Many of them were educated above the norm - which caused much resentment. They often helped each other out - with same result.
Much of the similar behavior (and resentment of thereof) I was able to observe working in large corporation in USA in southwest Connecticut. I would guess that some parts of Brooklyn could also serve as good examples of ethnic tensions based on such differences.
Antisemitism ins't much different from anti-anyone else. If you really want to hate someone, you'll always find a way. More different they look/behave - the easier it will be.
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There we have it :)
:rofl