Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: XxDaSTaRxx on October 29, 2013, 10:21:40 PM
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(http://i343.photobucket.com/albums/o460/caldera_08/Aces%20High%20Motivational%20Posters/he111.jpg~original) (http://s343.photobucket.com/user/caldera_08/media/Aces%20High%20Motivational%20Posters/he111.jpg.html)
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Yes.
Last tour, for example, more than 230 players. About the same as the Ju-88 and apparently many more than the G4M :old:
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Yes.
Last tour, for example, more than 230 players. About the same as the Ju-88 and apparently many more than the G4M :old:
230... :huh :headscratch: you sure that's correct?
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We don't have sortie numbers, so 'number of uses' could only be roughly estimated by k+d
But as you were asking "Does anybody really use this thing anymore?":
(http://i1145.photobucket.com/albums/o507/Snaildude/playersbomber164_zpse6e2518b.jpg)
230... :huh :headscratch: you sure that's correct?
The plane stats page is only a few clicks away for you as well ;)
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We don't have sortie numbers, so 'number of uses' could only be roughly estimated by k+d
But as you were asking "Does anybody really use this thing anymore?":
(http://i1145.photobucket.com/albums/o507/Snaildude/playersbomber164_zpse6e2518b.jpg)
The plane stats page is only a few clicks away for you as well ;)
I guess.... I never see the thing in flight though... it's like seeing a 262 without 15 ponies on it
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I saw one last Friday night, and I fly in the MA once in a blue moon.
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It's my main bomber :rock 111 for life yo!
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We don't have sortie numbers, so 'number of uses' could only be roughly estimated by k+d
But as you were asking "Does anybody really use this thing anymore?":
(http://i1145.photobucket.com/albums/o507/Snaildude/playersbomber164_zpse6e2518b.jpg)
The plane stats page is only a few clicks away for you as well ;)
I'm suprised the Ki67 gets so little use.
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LWA...whats that?
http://ahevents.org/fso-current-next-event.html
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LWA...whats that?
http://ahevents.org/fso-current-next-event.html
I've heard of this LWA... I read about it in the elders scrolls... :rofl
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It has its uses. Just because it has minimal defensive capabilities does not mean it is not worth taking. It is great for a lot of things, just dont plan on getting too high too fast, and dont plan on getting to the target the fastest either. It climbs well enough to 10k, but above that it really tapers off.
Once to 17k, it can cruise along in the 250-260 range depending on weight, but its biggest Achilles heel is the lack of defensive armament.
Like everything in AH, it has its merits. An escort fighter does it wonders though. :aok
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Like everything in AH, it has its merits.
Not that I disagree with it being added, but....
What merits does it have in AH as compared to other bombers, particularly the B-26B which seems to be the leader in that category.
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Why up a Ju-88 instead of an He-111?
Why up a He-111 instead of a Ju-88?
B-24's are the most intimidating to me (in a fighter), why does anyone up anything other than a B-24?
When I'm in a Ju-88 or He-11, it seems that any other bombers land more damage than I do.
When players land bombers, are Perk points awarded considering the plane?
Or does it only go by Tonage of bombs dropped? and number of air to air kills?
Do heavy bombers get points for killing GV's?
Could a guy that flies ONLY Ju-88s or He-111s EVER EVER EVER get #1 bomber ranking?
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Why up a Ju-88 instead of an He-111?
Higher performance, more effective defenses.
Why up a He-111 instead of a Ju-88?
Larger effective bomb load, longer range.
B-24's are the most intimidating to me (in a fighter), why does anyone up anything other than a B-24?
Fragile. B-24s are easy kills compared to B-17s and Lancasters carry more while being able to take more.
When I'm in a Ju-88 or He-11, it seems that any other bombers land more damage than I do.
What are you bombing? If you want high damage spam on landing you need to bomb town centers.
When players land bombers, are Perk points awarded considering the plane?
Or does it only go by Tonage of bombs dropped? and number of air to air kills?
Kind of. Bomb load determines the OBJ score which is what perks from objects are based on. ENY determines how many perks you get for air-to-air kills.
Do heavy bombers get points for killing GV's?
Yes, based on the respective ENY values of the tank and bomber in question.
Could a guy that flies ONLY Ju-88s or He-111s EVER EVER EVER get #1 bomber ranking?
No idea. I've never gone for ranking.
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Not that I disagree with it being added, but....
What merits does it have in AH as compared to other bombers, particularly the B-26B which seems to be the leader in that category.
Increased perk points for example. Say you want to pork barracks at a vehicle field. 8x500lb for the B26 and 8x250kg for the He111 are pretty equal in this role. You can destroy 6 barracks, a Storch hangar and at least one field gun in a single run. Both bombers do equal damage, but the He111 gives more perks. Don`t remember how much or how little more. If you manage to shoot down a fighter in a He111 then that gives you even more perks. Some don`t care about the ranking or score and want to fly different planes.
He111 looks different and for some maybe cooler than the B26. He111 could be used for some strange fun stuff, like strafing soft targets with 6 20mm cannons in a shallow descent angle. I hope to experiment with this some time in the future.
To answer the original question. Yes people use it. It was my ride for the entire BoB scenario. It is probably used in many other special events too. For me this is one of those iconic planes that are necessary in some events, especially the BoB.
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OBJ values for the B-26 and He111 are the same, or nearly so, as I recall. The B-26's superior performance means you'll get perks faster.
That completely ignores the perks from killing enemy fighters. Yes, the ENY on the He111 is much higher, but your odds of killing an enemy fighter are very low.
Probably the best perk farming bomber is the Ki-67 due to its speed, defensive guns and high OBJ value.
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Probably the best perk farming bomber is the Ki-67 due to its speed, defensive guns and high OBJ value.
now that depends on how you want to look...
ki-67...
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7007/6820607889_fe863ca14c_z.jpg)
he-111...
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ltj5z5EKHy1r1vz7co1_500.gif)
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now that depends on how you want to look...
Perk earning capability is unimpressed by aesthetics.
That said, if you really want to earn perks with German stuff, the He111 is probably slightly better than the Ju88. Maybe not though, they are close.
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Not that I disagree with it being added, but....
What merits does it have in AH as compared to other bombers, particularly the B-26B which seems to be the leader in that category.
Torpedoes. BFB's. Eventually the ability to carry supplies. :aok
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Torpedoes. BFB's. Eventually the ability to carry supplies. :aok
Ju88 is superior and carries torps. I doubt it will ever carry supplies, but yes, that would set it apart.
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The He 111 is the prettiest looking bomber in AH. :old:
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The He 111 is the prettiest looking bomber in AH. :old:
"Everyone to their own taste", said the lady who kissed the cow. :neener:
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The He 111 is the prettiest looking bomber in AH. :old:
That is debatable.
I prefer the Mossie bombers, B-17 and B-26 myself. For a German bomber the He111 is pretty nice looking though. Still, its no Ju188.
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You guys are just jealous the He111 treats me so well!
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Why up a Ju-88 instead of an He-111?
Why up a He-111 instead of a Ju-88?
B-24's are the most intimidating to me (in a fighter), why does anyone up anything other than a B-24?
When I'm in a Ju-88 or He-11, it seems that any other bombers land more damage than I do.
When players land bombers, are Perk points awarded considering the plane?
Or does it only go by Tonage of bombs dropped? and number of air to air kills?
Do heavy bombers get points for killing GV's?
Could a guy that flies ONLY Ju-88s or He-111s EVER EVER EVER get #1 bomber ranking?
B-17 seems to have it's advantages, I've noticed B-24 engines are pretty sensitive to damage...
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moin
you guys knew im a ju 88 driver, from my point of view i cant understand why it isn t used much more, because its a very very evective bomber. sure the devensive power is not so well, but combinided with its turnability its very hard to shoot down a junkers.
in comparacion for stategig fliing.
the ju 88 can kill 10 town buildings in strat city with smal load out, with this loadout you are able to angage in 28k and dive away after drop with nearly 500miles.
the heinkel could kill 16 town buildings in stat city, but cant klimp hiher as 20 and is relativly slow, so its a chalange to bring a heinkel to the stats, i like doing that because its way harder as bringen an afk 35k b17 to it. and a heinkel can reach the target wenn a junkers cant.
because the highalt ability the b17 is more usable as the b24, the lidel better load out means nothing because both only can take 12 500lbs bombs and this loadout is better for strat attacks (mostly not ever). so i think thats explains why the b17 is more used as the b24.
there was a time were you only see b24 so i like this change.
To my Junkers:
Do you guys knew that this is the only bomber wich can close all fighter hangers at a small field in one pass,
do you knew that this bird can close a v field , able to kill 2-3 gvs and deack 2-6 acks with the bombs and surly the nose gunn can work as well :-)
no other bomber do have these ability only the lanc stuka can maybe do that but the most will die ;-)
cu christian
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Do you guys knew that this is the only bomber wich can close all fighter hangers at a small field in one pass,
Why can't the B-17 with six 1000lbers or the B-24 with eight 1000lbers or four 2000lbers do so?
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moin
you guys knew im a ju 88 driver, from my point of view i cant understand why it isn t used much more, because its a very very evective bomber. sure the devensive power is not so well, but combinided with its turnability its very hard to shoot down a junkers.
in comparacion for stategig fliing.
the ju 88 can kill 10 town buildings in strat city with smal load out, with this loadout you are able to angage in 28k and dive away after drop with nearly 500miles.
the heinkel could kill 16 town buildings in stat city, but cant klimp hiher as 20 and is relativly slow, so its a chalange to bring a heinkel to the stats, i like doing that because its way harder as bringen an afk 35k b17 to it. and a heinkel can reach the target wenn a junkers cant.
because the highalt ability the b17 is more usable as the b24, the lidel better load out means nothing because both only can take 12 500lbs bombs and this loadout is better for strat attacks (mostly not ever). so i think thats explains why the b17 is more used as the b24.
there was a time were you only see b24 so i like this change.
To my Junkers:
Do you guys knew that this is the only bomber wich can close all fighter hangers at a small field in one pass,
do you knew that this bird can close a v field , able to kill 2-3 gvs and deack 2-6 acks with the bombs and surly the nose gunn can work as well :-)
no other bomber do have these ability only the lanc stuka can maybe do that but the most will die ;-)
cu christian
ok... just because I like the nuts and bolts of each bomber's attributes, I'll bite. :D
A bomber's ability to evade enemy fighters via turning is sort of a moot point, really. Stop and think about that concept.
The Ju88 can certainly carry a large bomb load in weight, but only about 2000 kg (4400 lbs) is worth mentioning in most cases. It also climbs well enough and well enough speed, but the Ju88 is plagued by two things: defensive armament and range.
The Ju88 offers nothing that the B17, B24, and Lancaster can not do better, at least in terms of total weight destruction. While in a Ju88, if you can make 2 passes over a gv base and take out out all 4 hangers with the large ord, then make 2-3 more passes with the small ord and de-ack, then more power to you. However you cut it, that technique is not very efficient. Mind you, I very much enjoy NOT doing things the cookie cutter way. The "horde" effect really annoys me.
Last but not least, I'm a fan of the Ju88 and He111. I fly them quite a but (more He111 lately). I applaud anyone who will accept the challenge of those two bombers. What many people forget is that both the Ju88 and He111 are 2 engine bombers, not the 4 engine bombers like they are most compared to.
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What many people forget is that both the Ju88 and He111 are 2 engine bombers, not the 4 engine bombers like they are most compared to.
Hence my focusing my comparisons to the B-26, G4M1 and Ki-67 earlier. It was only when it was claimed that the Ju88 could take out all FHs at a small field in a single pass and that no other bomber could do so that I brought the heavies into it. I suspect the B-26 can also do that with four 1000lbers.
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Ok... a MAJOR difference between the Ju-88 and the He-111... that I have brought up before - GUN INTERFACE.
Dogfighting, so leave the 'formation' stuff at home, this is for when you are a single bomber, or the other two are dead.
So, upping a single Ju-88, WITH NO BOMBS... 50% fuel is just a bit too heavy, but with only 25% fuel, it's duration is just a bit too low. If you choose 50% fuel, then you need to burn some off by doing a climb out to get some alt that ya should have anyways. (another good reason for fuelburn 1x!)
Anyways, Cases:
1) All 3 Ju-88's dead in one pass: I've seen game footage of a fighter killing all three of a Ju-88 formation IN ONE HIGH SPEED PASS (came in level with the bombers from out past the rear right side bomber - boom boom boom in one pass! :/
2) Other hand... I have also personally shot down many fighters with a Ju-88, when they come in from dead six, in the (small) cone, where all three rearward guns can hit the fighter at the same time, firing 'N' key to fire all weapons. I think the fighters are greedy, thinking it's an easy kill, and want to kill it before anyone else shows up and 'steals' the kills.
3) Dogfighting!, with 25 to 50% fuel, no bombs, it can actually DOGFIGHT with enemy FIGHTERS. One time, a good lengthy fight and I smoked an F4u, at least once. No it wasn't one of the 'all star' f4u dweebs but it was still a win for the Ju-88.
See... the Ju-88's forward gun, SMALL as it may be - 7.9mm, it still carries a LOT of AMO, 750 rounds to spray away.
THIS AMO CAN BE FIRED FROM THE PILOTS SEAT BY PULLING THE TRIGGER BUTTON IN JU-88, BUT NOT IN HE-111!
The He-111, IT SHOULD BE ABLE TO FIRE BOTH IT'S FRONT TWO 20MM's! WHY NOT??? KILLJOY MODELERS BOOO !!!
Were talking same fire power as an 190A5 or A8 without outer guns, or same as a 190d9!!!
The 111 PILOTS would have big grins on if they could fire FROM THE PILOTS SEAT!!!
AND IF YOU DO GO TO THE FRONT GUNNER'S SEAT, THE ARCH IS SO TERRIBLE THAT WE CAN'T AIM IT!!! ESPECIALLY THE WAY THE DAMM PLANE AUTO LEVELS WHEN WE GOTO A GUN!!!! WTH!!!!
AND 99.9999% of the time, NOBODY BUT NOBODY has TWO players in ONE plane, even when its BOMBERS, almost would say ESPECIALLY NOT when it's bombers.
How I feel about the gun interface for the He-111???... it HAS NO DEFENSES IF AT PILOT CONTROLS SOOO NO FUN DOGFIGHTS! :furious
Ju-88 plane - I'm sure there was a load out that had some AMO pointed forward, as in FIXED, had to be, with more than 1 single 7.9mm.
Bunch of 'kill joy modelers'... you guys dropped the ball on this stuff! :cry
SHOULD BE A BUTTON TO FIRE ALL WEAPONS WHICHEVER WAY THEY ARE FACING! PLEASE!
How to dogfight in a bomber?
Easy, just have to go easy with the G's, can still turn tight, stall fight, etc etc, just can't pull the same G's... same way to dodge enemy fighters in C47's for example...
For Ju-88's and He-111's... you have two of everything, just don't get hit in the pilot! And really, I think the glass was more bullet proof than the movies portray btw.
sowwy for I sometimes get upset! :salute
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Why can't the B-17 with six 1000lbers or the B-24 with eight 1000lbers or four 2000lbers do so?
because you cant in one pass ;)
the ju 88 can kill 3 FHs at the same time, at a smal field and close it no other bomber can do that. all big one need top turne and so an evecktive downtime from only 10 minets is left, at using the ju 88 you can work out a downtime from 15 minuts for your team.
btw ju 88 carrys 3000kgs ;-) its much more as the b17 does and because the 50kgs do have a higher punch for its size your hangars kill ability is much better as in a b17 and b24, you cant kill 7 hangars in a b17 and b24. because of the size of the b24 you need to drop 2 bombs to make a sure hangar kill. but in a junkers its relativ easy to kill 7 hangars.
the junkes is the best taktikal alaround bomber with the best abilitys, a multi tool to attack and take v- fields and a very usefull tool for suporting attacks on airvields.
by the why, the defensive bower is ofter an argument against it, but if you learned the aiming its quit efectiv. because its a smal bird all gunns do have a good agael on an upcoming enemy that means if all 12 gunns hiting the enmy at the converganze point, he will diea easyly, but sure its much harder as in the other bombers. ony the combination of speed, guns and turnability makes the defens in the junkers.
In the easy mode Bombers you only have gunns ;)
cu christian
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If you can do three hangars in a straight line then the B-17 can do it. If you can't quite then the larger blast radius of the B-24's 2000lb bombs might allow it to do so.
Are you saying the Ju88 can do it because it can make a turn in mid pass?
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ok, again, smal airfield one pass , all hangars down ;)
thay are not in a straight line
no other bomber can do this, belive me.
aim on 2 hangaer in lvl flight, and than dive down to kill the third. mostly the third get down bevor the two first :-)
if everthink works well you still have 6 small bombs for deacking and one big for anti gving.
sure but if you put the 2000 lbs you only can kill 4 hangars, wow, a junkers can do nearly twice of them. thats the point im talking about. the junkers do have much more abilitys the most never expected.
cu christian
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Ah, a dive bombing.
So it can do it, but probably not in most people's hands.
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hi
jes thats right because the most dont now the posibilitys the most dont try. thats the sad story of the junkers. :frown:
hope this talking will change it a bit :-)
cu christian
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I used to use the Ju88 a fair bit, but the change to AH2 which eliminated the hit bubbles (a very good thing to be clear) made it a lot harder to shoot down enemy fighters. Now when I use a bomber I find myself gravitating towards the Ki-67, G4M1 and Mosquito Mk XVI. The Ju88s versatility just isn't enough to make up for its low performance and defenses.
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The He 111 is the prettiest looking bomber in AH. :old:
:aok
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To summarize, if the He-111 could fire both of its forward facing 20mm's from the pilot's seat... it might become the most kills bomber in the game! :rock
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If you choose 50% fuel, then you need to burn some off by doing a climb out to get some alt that ya should have anyways. (another good reason for fuelburn 1x!)
It's obvious you don't understand the difference between the 1x and 2x fuel burn rates if you think having a 1x burn fuel rate is going to burn more gas in a climb than the 2x rate that is set in the MA.
ack-ack
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To summarize, if the He-111 could fire both of its forward facing 20mm's from the pilot's seat... it might become the most kills bomber in the game! :rock
Sorry, no. MG/FFs aren't going to get it that. The B-26's roughly equivalent, better ballistics, quad of .50s doesn't help it that much.
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Ack-Ack, I do...
at fuelburn 1x:
If you bring 25% fuel in a ju88, YOU CAN TURN PLENTY ENOUGH to combat fighters, but you run out of fuel within minutes.
If you bring 50% fuel in a ju88, YOUR TURNING WON'T BE ENOUGH to combat fighters; hence, getting alt would help because 1)alt always helps, 2) you will be able to turn!
At fuelburn 2x:
You get the best of both, turny and duration!
Karnak, uh, yeaAH, allow me to restate!
An He-111's DOUBLE 20mm's WILL BE ALOT BETTER THAN THE JU-88's SINGLE 7.9mm!!! Oooohhhkaaay! Thanks!
BooOOOooOOOooo that any bomber can't fire AT LEAST its forward facing guns... guns being able to PIVOT makes them a WEAKNESS in here!
Which plane is more likely to surivive a head on attack?
The one with the bigger guns? nooooOOOooOO! :headscratch:
And Chris3, post how to do that please! The flight path, alt, etc! :salute
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Ack-Ack, I do...
at fuelburn 1x:
If you bring 25% fuel in a ju88, YOU CAN TURN PLENTY ENOUGH to combat fighters, but you run out of fuel within minutes.
If you bring 50% fuel in a ju88, YOUR TURNING WON'T BE ENOUGH to combat fighters; hence, getting alt would help because 1)alt always helps, 2) you will be able to turn!
At fuelburn 2x:
You get the best of both, turny and duration!
No. Fuel burn 2x burns fuel twice as fast as 1x so at 1x you'd be able to climb to the same alt and have the same duration at 25% as you do now at 2x/50% but you'd be lighter through most of your sortie.
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I got my 1x and 2x backwards, but yeah, exactly what you said. Thx
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Karnak, uh, yeaAH, allow me to restate!
An He-111's DOUBLE 20mm's WILL BE ALOT BETTER THAN THE JU-88's SINGLE 7.9mm!!! Oooohhhkaaay! Thanks!
BooOOOooOOOooo that any bomber can't fire AT LEAST its forward facing guns... guns being able to PIVOT makes them a WEAKNESS in here!
Which plane is more likely to surivive a head on attack?
The one with the bigger guns? nooooOOOooOO! :headscratch:
Allow me to restate.
You claimed that if the two MG/FFs could be fired by the pilot in a fixed forward manner that the He111 might end up as the bomber with the most kills.
This is false. The B-26, which has more power and superior forward firepower (yes, four .50s are superior to two MG/FFs for dogfighting due to ballistics), is not significantly aided by having said .50s. It stands to follow that the He111 would similarly not benefit from the two 20mm cannons. The Ju88 does not enter into the conversation.
As to your added note about which is more likely to survive the head on, that is moot in the case of the He111 as it has no significant rear defenses for a fighter to be concerned with.
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B-17 seems to have it's advantages, I've noticed B-24 engines are pretty sensitive to damage...
Agreed, I find all you have to do to B-24s is get a few rounds in an engine and they flame up. B-17s and B-26s are the bombers that give me the most problems.
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Engines don't burn in AH. B-24's engines are not more suspectible to damage than those of the B-17. It's the fuel tank located there in the wings which burn. :old:
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Engines don't burn in AH. B-24's engines are not more suspectible to damage than those of the B-17. It's the fuel tank located there in the wings which burn. :old:
This is true, but the B-24's inner wing tanks which are situated right next to the engines do light up quote easily.
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I'm suprised the Ki67 gets so little use.
Great airplane. But many of the old bomber guys are gone. The HE-111 is a nice bomber as well. I had a ball in the last BOB event flying one.
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I generally find Ki-67s are flown by very, very savvy buff pilots.
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In the "defense of the Reich" Sturmgruppen always preferred to attack B24s instead of the B17s, on isolated occasions, without fighter escort one sturmgruppe could get 30-40 bombers in one go.
Heinz Knoke (flying 109g6r6) thought B24 had weak wings and crashed much faster than the Boeing.
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LWA...whats that?
http://ahevents.org/fso-current-next-event.html
Squire, it's that practice thingy we use to get ready for Special Events...
http://www.ahevents.org/ (http://www.ahevents.org/)
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Ok... guessing that using up the fuel in the wingtanks first is the best choice?
The question: is it in the game? If a fuel tank has fuel in it, is it more likely to burn? And the opposite, if a fuel tank is empty, less likely to catch fire?
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hi franz
what did you mean exactly, i have multiple taktics for the diverent roals of the ju 88 in game.
let me knew what you want to do with the junkers and i will tell you the best way ;-)
cu christian
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Engines don't burn in AH. B-24's engines are not more suspectible to damage than those of the B-17. It's the fuel tank located there in the wings which burn. :old:
I do not fly bombers an awful lot but would it be correct to say that B24's are far more susceptible to oil hits and engine outs than B17s? I've always thought this to be true.
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I do not fly bombers an awful lot but would it be correct to say that B24's are far more susceptible to oil hits and engine outs than B17s? I've always thought this to be true.
Hard to say, as most of the time I'm either on fire or lost a wing. Wing tips on the 24 are oh-so-breakable vs the 17. But I would lean towards the 24 suffering oil more often though. That's one thing that stands out to me when I think about it. Engine outs are bout the same-ish.
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Time for this again: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cxqg_ub3xAw
:salute
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Hard to say, as most of the time I'm either on fire or lost a wing. Wing tips on the 24 are oh-so-breakable vs the 17. But I would lean towards the 24 suffering oil more often though. That's one thing that stands out to me when I think about it. Engine outs are bout the same-ish.
Recently my 17 has jinxed me and I'm starting to get more engine problems... :noid Who did this?
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Yes!!!