Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Franz Von Werra on October 31, 2013, 02:57:03 AM

Title: Tiger armor, PROPERLY labeled please!
Post by: Franz Von Werra on October 31, 2013, 02:57:03 AM
This site says that Tiger armor was made of "nickel-steel plate" so it's mm's is of this alloy, not just steel. Please list it on the website description page and on the in-game hangar clipboard chart as "nickel-steel" please.

http://fprado.com/armorsite/tiger1.htm

 :salute
Title: Re: Tiger armor, PROPERLY labeled please!
Post by: guncrasher on October 31, 2013, 03:14:29 AM
if I had a nickel for every superfluous thread you posted, I would have retired by now.


semp

edit: and at the risk of sounding superfluous please use the proper name when trying to correct others.
Title: Re: Tiger armor, PROPERLY labeled please!
Post by: nrshida on October 31, 2013, 04:08:34 AM
The Panzerkampfwagen VI used low-carbon high-strength steel deriving its tensility and compressive strength from precipitates through the inter-metallic secondary alloying elements such as cobalt and molybdenum The primary alloying constituent being nickel between 18 to 20% by weight...

Oh wait a minute, it's Franz.

Yeah dude, like totally. They bought nickels in expecially from New York supposively because they were even harder. If you scratch a Tiger with your fingernail you can seem em just under the surface.

Tiger tanks dude, like German and Awesome!  :rock

Title: Re: Tiger armor, PROPERLY labeled please!
Post by: gyrene81 on October 31, 2013, 06:26:45 AM
someone didn't read the wiki in the proper context and closely enough...

(http://global3.memecdn.com/retard_o_607477.jpg)
Title: Re: Tiger armor, PROPERLY labeled please!
Post by: Volron on October 31, 2013, 10:23:33 AM
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc473/UnkShadow/avatar_3629.gif)
Title: Re: Tiger armor, PROPERLY labeled please!
Post by: pembquist on October 31, 2013, 12:14:18 PM
Steel is an alloy of iron and carbon.
Title: Re: Tiger armor, PROPERLY labeled please!
Post by: Skuzzy on October 31, 2013, 12:23:34 PM
Steel is an alloy and can contain nickel, which is commonly found in stainless steels.

The term 'steel' encompasses many different alloys.
Title: Re: Tiger armor, PROPERLY labeled please!
Post by: pembquist on October 31, 2013, 12:33:57 PM

The term 'steel' encompasses many different alloys.

That's what I meant. Saying steel alloy is like saying wood lumber.
Title: Re: Tiger armor, PROPERLY labeled please!
Post by: gyrene81 on October 31, 2013, 12:53:34 PM
That's what I meant. Saying steel alloy is like saying wood lumber.
it could still be alloy steel...  :devil

Quote
AlŽloy steel
1.   Any steel containing a notable quantity of some other metal alloyed with the iron, usually chromium, nickel, manganese, tungsten, or vanadium.
Title: Re: Tiger armor, PROPERLY labeled please!
Post by: pembquist on October 31, 2013, 02:01:54 PM
Lumber wood?

Now that I think of it there is plastic lumber and wood composite, and there used tobe plastic wood in a can.

Alloy wood, steel lumber.
Title: Re: Tiger armor, PROPERLY labeled please!
Post by: Arlo on October 31, 2013, 02:19:26 PM
Lumber wood?

Now that I think of it there is plastic lumber and wood composite, and there used tobe plastic wood in a can.

Alloy wood, steel lumber.

Quick, somebody, hold him down. Sedative. He's losing it.  ;)  :cheers:
Title: Re: Tiger armor, PROPERLY labeled please!
Post by: Franz Von Werra on October 31, 2013, 03:55:42 PM
Quick, somebody, hold him down. Sedative. He's losing it.  ;)  :cheers:
I'm either hypoeutectic or hypereutectic? (chemically imbalanced to one side or the other)  :huh

Per Wikipedia, Steel IS IRON with between 0.002 and 2.1% carbon by Weight.
Lumber wood: Steel is an alloy of Iron and a tiny but important bit of Carbon, but steel with Nickel make an even better alloy, at least for Brinell hardness.
Like THREE different metals ALLOY instead of just TWO like steel.

The Periodic Table would show that Iron atoms are BIG, and that Carbon Atoms are small...
Iron (Fe for ferrous) atoms LARGE like beachballs
Carbon (C for Carbon) atoms are SMALL like marbles.
Steel is like a room full of beachballs with marbles inbetween; like 1 marble at the gap between 8 beachballs at the corner of a box.

Eutectic point:
Example:
You throw some chunks of Iron and some chunks of Nickel into a large pot (a crucible) and you turn up the heat, eventually the two melt together.
If you put too much Iron, you will have clumps of Iron.
If you put too much Nickel, you will have clumps of Nickel.
If you have JUST THE RIGHT AMOUNT OF EACH, then there will be no clumps and you will be at the "Eutectic Point" for the two metals.
Also, this new 'alloy' that you have will have the lowest melting point of either of the two separately, be aware of not heating it past the eutectic melting point or lose the eutectic point.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/53/Eutectic_system_phase_diagram.svg/350px-Eutectic_system_phase_diagram.svg.png)
A phase diagram for a fictitious binary chemical mixture (with the two components denoted by A and B) used to depict the eutectic composition, temperature, and point. (L denotes the liquid state.)

Brinell Hardness:
Brinell hardness test goes like this: INDEPENDENT OF THICKNESS BY THE WAY!!!
You put your piece of metal on table, you drop the 'official tester thingy' that has a very hard point from the 'official tester height' above the metal. That point hits the metal and makes a dent.
The dent WIDTH is measured...  and you then the equation and you get 'brinell hardness.'
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/de/BrinellHardness.svg/200px-BrinellHardness.svg.png)

THE SOURCE:
I AM UNABLE TO COPY-PASTE FROM DAM SITE... TYPING: from www.fprado.com
"The rolled homogeneous nickel-steel plate, electro-welded interlocking-plate construction armor had a Brinell hardness index of around 255-280 (the best homogeneous armor hardness level for corresponding thickness level of the Tiger's armor by WW II standards); and rigorous quality control procedures ensured that it stayed that way. About this issue, and according to Thomas L. Jentz, "there is no proof that substandard german armour plate was used during the last years of the war. All original documents confirm compliance with standard specifications throughout the war" (JENTZ, Thomas L. Germany's TIGER Tanks, VK45.02 to Tiger II: Design Production & Modifications).
I haven't resourced but I think that only TIGER I's were made with Nickel Steel, Tiger II's may have only had Steel. NOT SURE.

Summary:
Tiger Nickel-Steel hardness: 255-280 HB(?) from JENTZ
Mild steel hardness: 120 HB from WIKIPEDIA
Stainless Steel: 200 HB from WIKIPEDIA

Not sure what the HB for specific tank types were... anyways.
Some other dam game(s) obviously thinks the THICKNESS was the ONLY IMPORTANT MEASUREMENT.
I hope that OUR Tiger tanks have Brinell Hardness included... I'm not a 'tanker'...
I'm just requesting that the tank info chart on our 'clipboard' SHOWS that it was made of NICKEL-STEEL, not only steel

Nickel-Steel is bettah!

knock yee selves out:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steel
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eutectic_system
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brinell_scale
http://www.ce.berkeley.edu/~paulmont/CE60New/alloys_steel.pdf

Also about electro welded slats that Tigers were made of, ALSO, meant less little pieces of metal breaking off and bouncing around inside thereby killing crews like in other dam game(s).
See, no rivets!:
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8334/8114333496_7cc4f580d8_z.jpg)
Title: Re: Tiger armor, PROPERLY labeled please!
Post by: nrshida on October 31, 2013, 04:09:03 PM
Brinell Hardness:
You put your piece of metal on table, you drop the 'official tester thingy' that has a very hard point from the 'official tester height' above the metal.

You don't drop the 'official tester thingy', you press it in with a big press. Or get Chuck Norris to push it in with his thumb.


Nickel-Steel is bettah!

Oh I see the angle, he wants to make sure the quality is modeled not just the thickness.  :old:


Title: Re: Tiger armor, PROPERLY labeled please!
Post by: jeffdn on October 31, 2013, 04:12:50 PM
Also about electro welded slats that Tigers were made of, ALSO, meant less little pieces of metal breaking off and bouncing around inside thereby killing crews like in other dam game(s).
See, no rivets!:
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8334/8114333496_7cc4f580d8_z.jpg)

That is a tank made from LEGO bricks. Of course there are no rivets.
Title: Re: Tiger armor, PROPERLY labeled please!
Post by: Wiley on October 31, 2013, 04:25:18 PM
Is... is he trying to troll, or is this some kind of disorder akin to Tourette's?  Schlowy genuinely confuses me.

There is actually a grain of a point in this... whatever this is.  Are different materials modeled in the game, or is steel steel?  If not, it would be kind of cool, I guess, to have the different materials used on the tanks modeled.

Wiley.
Title: Re: Tiger armor, PROPERLY labeled please!
Post by: bustr on October 31, 2013, 04:59:29 PM
This site says that Tiger armor was made of "nickel-steel plate" so it's mm's is of this alloy, not just steel. Please list it on the website description page and on the in-game hangar clipboard chart as "nickel-steel" please.
http://fprado.com/armorsite/tiger1.htm

 :salute

I feel for Franz in this case because he wants a cosmetic update to something in the game. Not an update to the value Hitech has assigned to the tiger's armor plates. Getting Hitech to change the coding value is probably easier if Franz were to show up out of the blue with something like the original blue prints and range test destruct data for all of the armor plate used on the tiger.

As is, I've never gotten HTC to revisit problems with gunsights. So changing that text may receive the same deaf response. At least the GV community is happy with the armor values Hitech has assigned to the tiger.
Title: Re: Tiger armor, PROPERLY labeled please!
Post by: Aspen on October 31, 2013, 05:03:36 PM
I don't know squat about tank armor, but Legos are 105 Rockwell hardness if that helps.
Title: Re: Tiger armor, PROPERLY labeled please!
Post by: Rino on October 31, 2013, 07:03:59 PM
     Since when does spalling require rivets? 
Title: Re: Tiger armor, PROPERLY labeled please!
Post by: EskimoJoe on October 31, 2013, 08:38:03 PM
     Since when does spalling require rivets? 

Probably when Herr Franz got his hands on it.
Title: Re: Tiger armor, PROPERLY labeled please!
Post by: BaldEagl on October 31, 2013, 11:16:17 PM
My Tiger's don't have nickle alloy in them but I wear my tinfoil helmet to compensate.
Title: Re: Tiger armor, PROPERLY labeled please!
Post by: gyrene81 on November 01, 2013, 08:24:45 AM
My Tiger's don't have nickle alloy in them but I wear my tinfoil helmet to compensate.
how many nickels worth of tin foil do you use?  :D
Title: Re: Tiger armor, PROPERLY labeled please!
Post by: nrshida on November 01, 2013, 08:48:17 AM
My Tiger's don't have nickle alloy in them but I wear my tinfoil helmet to compensate.

Tinfoil hats are an alloy of paranoia and technology.

Title: Re: Tiger armor, PROPERLY labeled please!
Post by: alpini13 on November 01, 2013, 09:17:39 AM
+1  this is an interesting point...but as the german industry was starving for certain raw materials later in the war...armour also suffered. i have seen pictures of panthers and very late tigers that show damage from enemy tanks and anti tank guns to be a chunking effect on the late armour.normally there would be a mark on the armour where the round hit dug in a bit and then bounced off, instead what was happening at the end of the war was a round would hit,break a large chunk out and bounce off leaving fractures in the hit area as well. as noted by  british,american and russians after the war during target practice on german tanks used for evaluation.   wheather you like von wera's post or not, it absolutely is correct and has merits.  i guess we mock what we dont understand or what doesnt fit into our world the way we want it to. :aok
Title: Re: Tiger armor, PROPERLY labeled please!
Post by: gyrene81 on November 01, 2013, 09:27:46 AM
+1  this is an interesting point...but as the german industry was starving for certain raw materials later in the war...armour also suffered. i have seen pictures of panthers and very late tigers that show damage from enemy tanks and anti tank guns to be a chunking effect on the late armour.normally there would be a mark on the armour where the round hit dug in a bit and then bounced off, instead what was happening at the end of the war was a round would hit,break a large chunk out and bounce off leaving fractures in the hit area as well. as noted by  british,american and russians after the war during target practice on german tanks used for evaluation.   wheather you like von wera's post or not, it absolutely is correct and has merits.  i guess we mock what we dont understand or what doesnt fit into our world the way we want it to. :aok
no, actually we mock the need for the unnecessary. in this case, considering the links on the wiki (that anyone with a working brain could click on) which do include the full information on the type of metal used in the construction of the tiger the request is an unnecessary superflous bit of nonsense which the op is renowned for.

perhaps since you feel so strongly about the perceived need, you could edit said wiki personally and include not only the specifics on the makeup of the alloy steel used in the construction, but also the additional facts including the lack of materials later in the war and the effects that said shortages had on the armor.
Title: Re: Tiger armor, PROPERLY labeled please!
Post by: SirNuke on November 01, 2013, 10:03:59 AM
wasn't it the lack of manganese that reduced the quality of german tank armor late in the war?
Title: Re: Tiger armor, PROPERLY labeled please!
Post by: Skuzzy on November 04, 2013, 05:53:51 AM
+1  this is an interesting point...but as the german industry was starving for certain raw materials later in the war...armour also suffered. i have seen pictures of panthers and very late tigers that show damage from enemy tanks and anti tank guns to be a chunking effect on the late armour.normally there would be a mark on the armour where the round hit dug in a bit and then bounced off, instead what was happening at the end of the war was a round would hit,break a large chunk out and bounce off leaving fractures in the hit area as well. as noted by  british,american and russians after the war during target practice on german tanks used for evaluation.   wheather you like von wera's post or not, it absolutely is correct and has merits.  i guess we mock what we dont understand or what doesnt fit into our world the way we want it to. :aok

It has no merit at all.  The term "steel" is a generic name for many different alloys, which all have a similar (not exact) basis to start with.  It is not incorrect to refer to any of them as "steel".

pembquist was close.  Wood is a classification or material, just like steel is.

I can say we have wood floors in our house and be quite correct, even though they are actually comprised of engineered wood, white oak, and red oak.  Yes, even within the categories of wood are sub classes.

Just like steel.  Carbon steel, low carbon steel, high carbon steel, chromium steel, stainless steel (an a dozen variants of that) are all correctly called "steel".
Title: Re: Tiger armor, PROPERLY labeled please!
Post by: Scherf on November 04, 2013, 06:05:30 AM
"In late Autumn, following the rut, the Skuzzy often becomes irritable, before retiring to its den to hibernate for the winter..."
Title: Re: Tiger armor, PROPERLY labeled please!
Post by: jeffdn on November 04, 2013, 08:16:53 AM
"In late Autumn, following the rut, the Skuzzy often becomes irritable, before retiring to its den to hibernate for the winter..."

Throwin' out them PNG's like nobody's business.  :salute