Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: eagl on January 27, 2001, 10:32:00 PM
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Hello all,
First, I want to say that I think that the center island portion of the arena is pretty cool. The valleys and terrain there is fun to fight in. Recently, I've had a whole bunch of fun flying with a few squealing Pigs when we find a bunch of knights and throw a little furball. The fields are close, the terrain adds to the fight, and everyone has a great time.
Until the flakpanzers show up and ruin everything.
Nothing ruins a knock-out drag-down furball faster than having a great fight go from 15k or higher down to the deck, then have a single flakpanzer shoot down everyone on one side. What the hell was all the air combat for then, if one friggen truck with a damned lazer guided cannon can make it all pointless? Tonight, I saw several large furballs disintegrate as they reached low altitudes, because a few flakpanzers shot down pretty much everyone on one side.
My request is to have a section of terrain very similiar to the island where A1 is, except just have 3 airfields on it. Ditch the vehicle fields. Leave the current island for those who want pitched tank battles, or even add another island with no airfields and 3 vehicle fields, but lets get someplace where people can fly and fight in aerial combat without the stupid cannon-toting trucks interfering.
3 times tonight, I and a few pigs were fighting what appeared to be tough and smart opponents. When the tide turned against them however, as they ran for their home field they dragged right over a few flakpanzers. They promptly set up a tight little circle 100 ft agl right over the flakpanzers. What a cheap way to end a dogfight. I understand that airfields ought to provide some safe haven until/unless it's under attack and the acks have been destroyed, but the remote-spawn locations have given new meaning to ack running. There appear to be whole squadrons who base their tactics on running to these spawn points anytime they get in trouble, hoping a flakwagon will be there and can shoot down everything in sight.
I also fully understand that the flakpanzers are a legitimate strategic tool, and a group could deliberately use them as a trap. My point is that this directly detracts from the air combat aspects of the game.
HTC, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE give those of us who like AIR COMBAT over all else a place to fight without having engagement after engagement end with the appearance of a few trucks that can instantly respawn right where they were destroyed. The current central island is a GREAT step in the right direction and provides good furball opportunities, but the presence of the ostwinds there are the quickest way I've seen to destroy a perfectly good furball.
If furballs aren't fun and in demand by the customers, why are they do darn popular in actual fact? People SAY they want strategy and all that, but put 2 airfields together without ostwind interference, and you'll have 20 or more people duking it out having a great time.
Please consider this in the spirit it's intended, a suggestion to make a fairly small addition to the terrain without dramatically altering the overall game. Thanks for taking the time to read it.
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eagl <squealing Pigs> BYA
Oink Oink To War!!!
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Game isnt called "Furballs High" therfore there are many things in it that will put a crimp in usless furball orgies, you want a terrain to spen hours of usless furballing on, there is a terrain editor in the Download section. try H2H if ya want that stuff, there are several FFA rooms open at all times.
the intent of the MA is to have a dynamic "war" in which 3 opposing countries try to wipe out eachother by all available means. I enjoy furballing aswell but simple fighter VS fighter air combat is not the goal of this game IMO. I get much more out of accomplishing missions and goals than I do just flying out to a wad of planes and shoot until im dead to only fly back and do it again. Furballing is fun, but the MA isnt designed for it.
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Fine suggestion stud! When eagl talks people.......listen!
Also, perk them damnable osties!
Love,
Yeager
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"Furballing is fun, but the MA isnt designed for it."
Alright Wobble, now you just put that crack pipe down and step away from it...Slooowly now! Thaaat's good.
The MA is all about catering to a wide variety of tastes. There are plenty of opportunities for endless furballing & there are strategic elements there for the other end of the spectrum. I doubt you've been in the main arena lately, 'cause if you had you'd know that there's always an opportunity to furball somewhere on the map (save maybe for the late night hours) & it's the strategic element that is sometimes lacking.
I think eagl's suggestion is perfectly rational, and I'd be up for it. That center island is perfect for furballing & I doubt anyone would be seriously put out if the vehicle bases were removed from it. Speak up anyone if you feel differently (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
SOB
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Wobble,
No kidding it isn't designed for furballs. FWIW, 8 player h2h to me is BORING. I can get that in any number of other games, but it's not nearly complex enough. It's great for training and trying out new terrains, but the big furballs are what keep me coming back for more.
I don't want to change the whole MA or the game, I would just like the chance to see some big furballs again like we used to have, like we still occasionally get until someone brings an ostwind into it. People who don't like furballs can have the ENTIRE ARENA to play in. I'd just like one tiny little corner where I, and the rest of the people who play AH because it has AIRPLANES, can play in without worring about a truck driver stopping our fight.
Is that really too much to ask? Heck, the fields would still be capturable, so those who have something against air combat could still shut it all down. In the meantime, you play your war and I'll shoot down enemy aircraft because that's what's fun to me.
From the few good furballs I've been in recently, there's generally a few dozen others online at any time who share my opinion since it's the same bunch of tough opponents I keep running into. 4v4 just doesn't cut it, this game can offer so much more if even one tiny corner of the arena is set up to allow it.
As to your flippant comment Wobble, the game isn't "vehicles high" either. It's much much more than either of us, so much more that maybe, just maybe, we can both get what we want if we don't childishly slam each other's ideas. What you call a "useless furball orgie", I and many others call "pure air combat" or "the only thing that makes it worth paying the subscription fee every month". Don't slam it just because you don't like it. Furballs don't even affect how YOU play the game except when you're mad that people aren't doing what you think they should be doing with their time online, so please don't pee in my cheerios just because you don't like large scale air battles.
edit - Thx for the support Yeager and SOB. You guys are two of the reasons I come back after getting shot down by a truck driver.
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eagl <squealing Pigs> BYA
Oink Oink To War!!!
[This message has been edited by eagl (edited 01-27-2001).]
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Fighter Town baby!!
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Boo-fluff'n-Hoo. Go play Warbirds then.
Wow! That didn't hurt at all!
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The more I think about it the more I like the Fightertown/Fighter Island concept..
One island; center of map, but distance isolated from the 'strat' portion of the map, containing three airfields that are industructable but equipped with numerous strong defensive acks (vulch squelchers)
The airfields fields would have limited fuel, Fighters only; NO A/G ords and no vehicles at airfields, no bombers, no boats. Then also 3 Vfields; also indestructable; also with strong AA defense, but located beyond easy distance from Airfields.
Also have the Arena set so that when you join the MA you are deposited in the tower of your countrys fighter island airfield. (two weekers would always pop out here)
Methinks it would improve gameplay for both the Furballers and the strat guys.
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Hang
1st/AG "Bishlanders" << Recruiting!!
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Originally posted by Hangtime:
The more I think about it the more I like the Fightertown/Fighter Island concept..
One island; center of map, but distance isolated from the 'strat' portion of the map, containing three airfields that are industructable but equipped with numerous strong defensive acks (vulch squelchers)
The airfields fields would have limited fuel, Fighters only; NO A/G ords and no vehicles at airfields, no bombers, no boats. Then also 3 Vfields; also indestructable; also with strong AA defense, but located beyond easy distance from Airfields.
Also have the Arena set so that when you join the MA you are deposited in the tower of your countrys fighter island airfield. (two weekers would always pop out here)
You are describing AW's "Fightertown" almost to a 'T'. They had a Pacific map with a central atoll which had 3 bases on it one for each country. No bombers could spawn from it allowig fighters to get into combat quickly. The alt of fites were generally pretty low which didnt require you to grab alot of alt prior to entering.
Ditto Eagl....think this would be a great idea!
-Ding
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Good idea Eagl....hope someone with some clout is listening (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Ice
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I like yeagers idea. Perk it.
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I have to agree with Eagl. I saw several "brave" 109 drivers that seemed to have only one tactic...enter the fight with a 2-4K altitude advantage, dive down for the head on attempt, then run for the flaks. Saw this twice in a row (different pilots)...and, much to the dismay of the flak crews, I got both 109's before an uneventful rtb. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
"wobble", I think you are missing the point, or reading too much into Eagle request...he's not talking about remaking the entire arena, just a small part of it.
"gadfly", since you obviously have nothing of value to add here, why don't you bite me?
-Smut
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eagl is of course.... correct. The Amish will never go for it tho. Seeing people have fun really makes em feel worthless.
lazs
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Eagl,
Baron VonRichtoven said the same thing after he was shot down in WWI (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
If you remove ground vehicles from a base, that base will be 10 times easier to capture. Given the tendancy of half the arena to fly/do what is easiest, that may be a mistake.
Making the bases indestructable will create the same situation you have described, except it will be ack instead of FPs.
If the ack is able to be shot down, people will take it down then vulch a field that they know ground vehicles cannot spawn from.
That is why I'm not a big fan of the "furball island" mentality. The only way it would work is if you spawned at 10k over an area with no fields and were limited to that area. Basically... make it quake.
AKDejaVu
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How about this rule of thumb:
Any vehicle easily capable of going on a milk run and generating over 80 perk points for the driver should be perked.
Funny how that group is limited to the ostwind and the C-hawg.
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Eagl has a good point and a good solution.
It would also be great for those times you only a a 1/2 hour or so to fly to get yer AH fix for the day.
It's got my vote.
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Good ideas folks.
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Disable spawn points at such a location, that'd take care of the problem.
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Baron Claus "StSanta" Von Ribbentroppen
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
(http://store4.yimg.com/I/demotivators_1619_3845234)
"I don't necessarily agree with everything I think." - A. Eldritch
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Reminds me of the days when this was a flight sim. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
FWIW I think this problem is going to solve itself. WW2OL is hanging out there, like a chog with a 5k advantage. What they offer to flight sim fans isn't to impressive. But for tankers/navy types it looks very good. If it isn't vapor ware, and the price is competitive. HTC will be full of pilots again very soon.
[This message has been edited by easymo (edited 01-28-2001).]
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Just make a Ridge around V2 V44 & V* (the 3V Fields in the center) so that Vehicles from there would not be able to go close to the A Fields. Add some "housin structures" in the center for some good Tanking action (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) Only spawnpoint possible : near the center of the map.
Just an idea, but someone could develop...
Saw
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Smut-Since the humor was lost on you, why don't you ignore me.
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I'd have to say you missed it big time with your so called humour Lizking.
Miss me??
-Westy
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i'm amused that people who claim to want AIR COMBAT, only want it in a big fur-ball, if you want real AIR COMBAT go 1 v 1, not some fur-ball with 3-4 on 1 or just as you line up a shot somebody on your 6 pings you, or maybe thats what they mean by AIR COMBAT
44MAG
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John, I suppose you figure I'm not at least marginally qualified to have an opinion about what "air combat" is? Funny, the last Red Flag sortie I flew, it was about 24 vs. X, not a 1 vs. 1. I wonder if anyone else flying that night considered it air combat...
Maybe you have some air combat experience you'd like to share to explain why you're so sure I'm so badly wrong? I'll gladly take advice from someone who's been in the sh*t, since the closest I've come to combat was 100 or so hours over Iraq before they started shooting at us again late in 1998.
I'm terribly pleased you're amused that while I find 1 v 1 duels fun, I'm not willing to pay $32/month to participate in a dueling ladder.
Haha only serious.
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eagl <squealing Pigs> BYA
Oink Oink To War!!!
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Eagl, I flew in the same theater as you... hehe except it was WarBirds. I doubt you remember my handle there: wlfe or redw depending on which squad I was flying for. wlfe was with The Animals and redw was with NJGr26 (it could of been a dif #, llbm can remind me, but dkid was the CO).
Anyways, air combat is dynamic. It's not a 1vs1, it's not a daisy chain(3 or 4 guys following each other trying to shoot one another down), it's a whole mess of airplanes fighting each other from two or more different countries.
In WB I loved getting into 3 or 4 country furballs, you didn't know if the frog or perkle behind you was going to shoot you or the dweeb(red) in front of you. Flying for the piss country(golds) for NJGr26 was the best fun I ever had.
Here's my stance on the furball area, I think just making the fields on the center island incapturable and giving each country an airfield there would suffice. Remove the VFields, but allow for vehicles to spawn from an airbase(with no spawn points except the airbase). Each country can furball to their heart's contents, or atleast until their fighter hangars are destroyed and then they either wait until they are repaired or they fly from the nearest available airfield.
Leave the island where it is, in the center, so that guys can fly from surrounding airfields if they wish and swoop down to tangle in the furball.
I had a lot of fun 2 nights ago on the center island when there was a huge rook/knight furball there. I was in a 109G2 and had a lot of fun diving onto Spit's and N1Ks and getting kills. I got 5 one sortie and they were all Spit's and for the most part it was clearing a countrymate's 6.
Adrenaline pumping action, and it was fun too.
Do you think the above idea is a good one eagl?
-SW
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Seawulfe,
I remember you from WB, I'm sure you cleared my 6 a few times while you were flying Gold. Dkid tried to clear my 6 once or twice, but I deliberately augered to deny him that privledge (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
I think you have the right idea for the furball island. Maybe not uncapturable, but large fields with a vehicle hangar and no remote spawn points, to help with field defense. Maybe a ring of hills around the field to discourage vehicle activity would be going too far? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) No vehicle specific fields anywhere on the island. Varied terrain to spice up the fights is cool too, maybe even a volcano in the middle. Three or four-way fights are the best, and that brings up about the only gripe I have with the current icon system. It's too easy to just see a red icon and go blasting away at it, without bothering to see which country it really comes from. Sorta like if a purk cleared my 6 once without also shooting me down, I'd clear a purk's 6 one time in return. It's just a little harder to see the country icon when they're all red. I sorta miss diving into a furball that looked a bit like a handful of skittles tossed into the air.
A question for all of you players - What about heavy AAA on furball island? Would it serve the purpose of letting people get away from the fields without getting vulched, or is it's range long enough to interfere with the fights? I'm not sure myself, and since it's not terribly accurate anymore it's just enough of a deterrent to keep me a bit away from large fields. On the other hand, getting schwacked by heavy AAA in the middle of a furball is almost as annoying as having an ostwind interfere with an air battle. What do you guys think?
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eagl <squealing Pigs> BYA
Oink Oink To War!!!
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I really doubt there isn't a pilot that doesn't like to furball some.
Eagl doesn't want to get rid of all osties.
I will say that the CVs and this terrain have really increased the number of furballs over the last two tours.
After quitting WB a little after Pyro and HT left, and basically not flying till I got into AH 2-3 months ago, I was incredibly frustrated in Tours 10 and 11 at how often I could be on in prime time and have difficulty finding a decent furball..considering I hadn't flown in over a year, and thus my ACM and gunnery skills had deteriorated from "average" when I left WB to "abysmal" I needed to fight as much as possible quickly......this was a huge problem.
And not having flown in a long time, I really wanted some fairly quick, and hot and heavy FB action..to figure out my stick settings, etc.
Quite a few of the CV vs. base furballs now are not over the fleets are the base, and only have a smattering of PTs in them (which, for some reason, seem less dangerous than Osties despite being better armed...I think a lot of PT drivers are distracted from shooting too much) and I think those are better furball bets than the central island.
The CVs die awfully quick now, though. They really should be hardened....