Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: XxDaSTaRxx on November 14, 2013, 02:24:24 PM
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(http://i343.photobucket.com/albums/o460/caldera_08/Aces%20High%20Motivational%20Posters/submarines.jpg~original)
I'm sure these have been requested many times over, but I think it would really enhance the naval portion of the game, which if you ask me is a little more dead than what it should be. Depth Charges would also be a great addition, you have to sink the subs somehow.
There would have to be some balance though, like a possible chance of sinking it every time you flushed the toilet... (that happend to a German U-boat! :rofl)
But all jokes aside the thing has to have some balance, I'm not asking for an uber-stealthy CV killer, like say the thing has to surface every two hours and it has to stay up for 15 mins? Has to stop at port for fuel every now and then?
Let's just hope your CV stays alive long enough to raid that base... :noid
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Going to need afterburners on that sub to catch an AH battlegroup :D
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You needn't worry. HiTech himself has stated more than a few times that he wishes to incorporate submarines into Aces High. And this much is certain, just as people cry about the GV's, they will most certainly throw a pissy fit about the subs. :lol
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And if we get subs, what will you do with them?
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And if we get subs, what will you do with them?
Let's just hope your CV stays alive long enough to raid that base... :noid
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I'm not sure a submarine would be capable of catching a CV group even on the surface.
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I'm not sure a submarine would be capable of catching a CV group even on the surface.
I guess we will have to have a rocket propelled sub :devil
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I'm not sure a submarine would be capable of catching a CV group even on the surface.
It wouldn't. But if you could spawn one near a base, like you can a PT boat, it could definitely make things interesting.
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Oh yeah, this is just what we need. :rolleyes:
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Max surfaced speed of diesel-electric boats was on the order of 20 kts; submerged it was 8-10 kts, but that would leave the batteries flat in less than an hour. German boats incorporated a snorkel later in the war, to allow them to run submerged with diesels, but only in fairly calm seas. Eventually, the Allies developed airborne sea-search radar that could pick up the snorkel, at which point the Germans began putting some radar absorbing material on the snorkel to reduce its radar cross-section (move and counter-move). But I digress...
Subs would likely have PT-like spawn points, so there would be known areas of the map where you'd be risking your CVBG to bring it in close to shore. Also, HiTech talked about adding a moving spawn point to represent a wolfpack; it's course could be plotted and changed in the same manner as a surface fleet; you'd spawn a sub from that. I don't know what he had in mind for how you'd sink a wolfpack; perhaps there would be a sub-tender with escorts, though it seems this would be horribly vulnerable to air attack. In any case, the wolfpack would likely only move at 2/3 or even 1/2 the speed of a CVBG. It would be useful to move it into a position in a bottleneck, to pose a risk to transiting CVBGs. That and as point-defense of coastal bases is the only way you could hope to engage the CVBG. Of course, along with the subs, you'd have to add all the means of detecting and attacking them.
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I'd hate subs in AH, because I'd never fly again
(http://cloud-3.steampowered.com/ugc/1101393627294339968/3B8B397DE3DFB3E402BA96075A3AF6E3174C123C/)
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I think you will have to wait on Ace High 3 for this.. To have subs you would have to completely re-engineer the water.. For example have to decide how far down the sub could go then also have contrust the oceans with that depth. The way it is currently there is just enough room for the torpedoes to go.. Also you would have to think about Cv will know there is sub close by. One last point is that each nation would need to have several large sea convoys for subs to attack. In the future but probably not for a little while :salute
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I think you will have to wait on Ace High 3 for this.. To have subs you would have to completely re-engineer the water.. For example have to decide how far down the sub could go then also have contrust the oceans with that depth. The way it is currently there is just enough room for the torpedoes to go.. Also you would have to think about Cv will know there is sub close by. One last point is that each nation would need to have several large sea convoys for subs to attack. In the future but probably not for a little while :salute
I agree it is a major undertaking, more so even than adding a FPS element (another back-burner plan HiTech has discussed). I like the convoy idea, and would like to see the CVE (a.k.a. escort carrier) implemented as part of it. The jeep carriers played a vital role, including convoy escorts. A CVE with a limited plane set would give the convoys a defensive capability against both subs and air power. As for how deep the subs could go, you'd need to model the ocean floor (basically hills and valleys with a negative altitude). The depth the sub could go would then be a function of the ocean depth and the sub's crush depth. The actual crush depth should probably handled a function of both the design crush depth (the maximum depth guaranteed by the ship builder) and a statistically increasing chance of implosion with each yard/meter past that you descend past it.
Control of the sub below the surface would be somewhat similar to the dynamics used in the "Dawn of Aces" zeppelins from Warbirds (HiTech I believe had a hand in those, IIRC). I look forward to the addition, and hope it won't be too long of a wait.
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Furthermore, we'd finally have a reason to have the PBY Catalina/H8K Emily... sub hunting!
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I'd vote for submarines only if we get Attack Force Z to go along with them. :aok
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I'd vote for submarines only if we get Attack Force Z to go along with them. :aok
:salute yeah!
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Furthermore, we'd finally have a reason to have the PBY Catalina/H8K Emily... sub hunting!
Indeed! :cheers:
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+1. :aok
I vote for the USS Rustoleum (Down Periscope, WW2 Diesel Sub)
Subs could jump into action using the Pt Boat spawns if an enemy CV
is spotted. The deck guns could be used to shoot air fields, v bases or towns. Would be fun if other players
could attach like the gunners for bombers.
FBBob would plan a mission with 100 submarines. :D :D :D ....launch an inflatable raft with troops ......
.......and pull it off successfully. Base captured. WTG FB's. (My imagination getting a little
carried away there).
German, US, or Japanese......doesn't matter. Would be a fun addition.
<S>
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And if we get subs, what will you do with them?
I shall bomb them. The semi-armor-piercing bombs of the 410 should do admirably. :devil
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I shall bomb them. The semi-armor-piercing bombs of the 410 should do admirably. :devil
Interesting.
With the new terrain engine to be released in the future, how far will we be able to see into the water? Would subs close to the surface (periscope depth) get bombed because they can be seen? Assuming of course subs will be introduced some day.
<S>
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Interesting.
With the new terrain engine to be released in the future, how far will we be able to see into the water? Would subs close to the surface (periscope depth) get bombed because they can be seen? Assuming of course subs will be introduced some day.
<S>
That's the thing. They ARE going to be introduced. With this terrain update, it could be they will finally add water depth. They may start simple, where gv's can traverse certain area's without the instant stuck we get now. With that, there is the possibility that seaplanes will be introduced as well. As is, I do not think the water can support seaplanes. You would just get stuck or crash. Only the HTC crew could say one way or the other on current water.
Oh I'm so hoping for the H6K. :x
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Interesting.
With the new terrain engine to be released in the future, how far will we be able to see into the water? Would subs close to the surface (periscope depth) get bombed because they can be seen? Assuming of course subs will be introduced some day.
<S>
Ideally, that would be the case, put would also depend on wave-state, water depth and what the seabed was composed of. For instance, with even moderate seas in the North Atlantic, it was not easy to spot a sub at even periscope depth, especially of the periscope was down. On the other hand, in the South Pacific, it was pretty easy to see a submerged sub in shallow water in broad daylight. It was always a risk to come to shallow depth and linger there, at least in areas where a/c were known to patrol. That's one of the reasons jeep carriers were so effective as convoy escorts. The presence of a CVE meant that, at least during daylight hours, the convoy had the advantage against the sub. I wonder if sea-states will be added, since it made a big difference in how had the advantage, the tin cans or the subs?
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The fire control solutions; and torp reload times would be painful.
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Interesting.
With the new terrain engine to be released in the future, how far will we be able to see into the water? Would subs close to the surface (periscope depth) get bombed because they can be seen? Assuming of course subs will be introduced some day.
<S>
:airplane: Maybe then we could use the "Tin Can" escort's for something beside ack! I think it would be neat to hunt down a sub, drop depth charges and record a "kill"! Of course then, we would have to have the ability to detach a "Tin Can" from the CV group to hunt down and engage sub.
Now if we could get the LST to go along with this sub idea, then we could really have some sea/land battles. Just think, you could have a sub go ahead of the CV group, raise periscope, check for aircraft, surface and then start shelling town for base capture! What a "hoot" that would be!!
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The fire control solutions; and torp reload times would be painful.
Yes, it typically would take several minutes to reload, and doing so made noise. However, this was mitigated by the fact that a fleet boat generally had fore and aft torpedo rooms (6 forward, 4 aft, was a typical arrangement, IIRC). And at least you could reload, unlike a PT boat. There would have to be some automation of the analog computer (can't recall the actual name of the US model, a "TDC" or something like that) used for torpedo targeting; a virtual torpedo officer, as it were. Basically, you estimated the targets course and speed from observations, input your boat's course and speed, and finally the bearing to the target as read off the periscope markings. The TDC would output a recommended course and relative bearing at which to shoot. You'd train the periscope out to that bearing and when the target hit your cross-hairs, you fired your torps. Typically, you'd fire a spread of several torps a few seconds apart, in hopes that one would hit the target. At least, that's what I recall from reading about it.
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Yes, it typically would take several minutes to reload, and doing so made noise. However, this was mitigated by the fact that a fleet boat generally had fore and aft torpedo rooms (6 forward, 4 aft, was a typical arrangement, IIRC). And at least you could reload, unlike a PT boat. There would have to be some automation of the analog computer (can't recall the actual name of the US model, a "TDC" or something like that) used for torpedo targeting; a virtual torpedo officer, as it were. Basically, you estimated the targets course and speed from observations, input your boat's course and speed, and finally the bearing to the target as read off the periscope markings. The TDC would output a recommended course and relative bearing at which to shoot. You'd train the periscope out to that bearing and when the target hit your cross-hairs, you fired your torps. Typically, you'd fire a spread of several torps a few seconds apart, in hopes that one would hit the target. At least, that's what I recall from reading about it.
Then make them suffer while waiting on the reload! Don't need to kill em fast all the time, that way they come back :devil
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I'm not sure a submarine would be capable of catching a CV group even on the surface.
Not even close - Subs are 20 knots +/- surfaced and a CV group is running around at 33 knots or so. Unless they run the CV group over the top of you you have no chance.
EVEN IF they get within a few K of you - they are moving just about as fast as your torpedoes and unless you have a damn fine computer making the calculation, good luck getting any hits.
We can't even get a basic surface torp sight for the PT boat.
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Actually, our TGs travel at 35 mph and there was one model of Sub that was almost as fast on the surfaces as our TGs. If I remember correctly, it was a Japanese boat. It was early in their production and discontinued later. I think they went with a different model because of its' limited range and torpedo reliability problems. Range and weapon reliability wouldn't be a problem in the MA.
While these Subs wouldn't be able to keep up with our 35 mph TGs, they would be able to shadow a TG on the surface for hours and when the TG stopped to attack a base, the TG would be vulnerable.
Even without destroyers, a Sub's deck guns vs a PT Boat's maneuverability and armament should be fun.
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Until the torpedoes get an update, they really are worthless with the TG moving at 35 knots all the time. HT should really consider bumping up all the torpedo speeds to the max available in WW2 for each country as a compensating factor because task groups did not run around at full speed all the time. For the US & Germany that means one of the 44-46 knot types, and a 48-50 knot type for the Japanese planes.
Increase the air drop altitudes and entry speeds to the late war specs as well and we might actually see some torpedo bombing in the MA.
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Until the torpedoes get an update, they really are worthless with the TG moving at 35 knots all the time. HT should really consider bumping up all the torpedo speeds to the max available in WW2 for each country as a compensating factor because task groups did not run around at full speed all the time. For the US & Germany that means one of the 44-46 knot types, and a 48-50 knot type for the Japanese planes.
Increase the air drop altitudes and entry speeds to the late war specs as well and we might actually see some torpedo bombing in the MA.
A topic for its own thread perhaps, but I too would like to see the CV ops a little more realistic. The only time a CV typically ran flat out at 30+ knots was when launching and recovering A/C. They also typically turned into the wind, especially when launching fully loaded strike a/c. Perhaps the CV should only be doing 30+ knots when A/C are on deck for launch or within 1 nm. Otherwise, if one of the conditions listed is not met for, say 5 minutes, the CVBG slows down to 20 knots. I'd also like to see a 10-knot surface wind throughout the arena, with a wind-indicator visible from the tower and from the CV deck. Finally, I'd slow the CVBG down to 30 knots during launch and recovery ops, with a clipboard button a player on deck could click on to temporarily override the way-point course and turn the CV into the wind and hold it there for 1 minute. It would then return to base course, unless the button was pressed again. Just some possible suggestions to introduce some more realistic parameters on naval flight ops.
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Until the torpedoes get an update, they really are worthless with the TG moving at 35 knots all the time. HT should really consider bumping up all the torpedo speeds to the max available in WW2 for each country as a compensating factor because task groups did not run around at full speed all the time. For the US & Germany that means one of the 44-46 knot types, and a 48-50 knot type for the Japanese planes.
Increase the air drop altitudes and entry speeds to the late war specs as well and we might actually see some torpedo bombing in the MA.
:aok +1 well to the torp speeds and drop altitude but still haha <S>
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:airplane: Maybe then we could use the "Tin Can" escort's for something beside ack! I think it would be neat to hunt down a sub, drop depth charges and record a "kill"! Of course then, we would have to have the ability to detach a "Tin Can" from the CV group to hunt down and engage sub.
Now if we could get the LST to go along with this sub idea, then we could really have some sea/land battles. Just think, you could have a sub go ahead of the CV group, raise periscope, check for aircraft, surface and then start shelling town for base capture! What a "hoot" that would be!!
:aok Couldn't be a better way to explain how to use subs