Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Odyssey on November 16, 2013, 03:06:42 PM
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Like to see 'towed' artillery added. Use existing GVs to tow them.
Uses range from anti-tank, soft targets (towns) to anti-personnel.
Loaded out of AP, HE and Incendiary. (Love to see a Town a blaze)
Varying ranges, short or long (5000 to 30,000 yards)
Varying rounds per minute, from 3-4 up to 12
Many to choose from....
German 17cm Kanone 18 Towed Heavy Field Gun (1941)
American M114 155mm (155mm Howitzer M1) (1941)
Japanese Type 1 47mm Anti-Tank Gun 47mm Anti-Tank Gun (1942)
American M3 (105mm Howitzer M3) (1943)
Russian MT-13 Long-Range Towed Heavy Mortar (1943)
British QF 25-pounder Short Field Gun / Howitzer (1943)
Russian ZiS-2 57mm Anti-Tank Gun (1943)
German 10.5-cm leFH 18/40 Towed Howitzer (1944)
Russian 100mm Model 1944 (BS-3) Towed Artillery / Anti-Tank Gun (1944)
http://www.militaryfactory.com/armor/ww2-artillery.asp (http://www.militaryfactory.com/armor/ww2-artillery.asp)
Like LST's and Subs, this would help round out the game.
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Like to see 'towed' artillery added. Use existing GVs to tow them.
Uses range from anti-tank, soft targets (towns) to anti-personnel.
Loaded out of AP, HE and Incendiary. (Love to see a Town a blaze)
Varying ranges, short or long (5000 to 30,000 yards)
Varying rounds per minute, from 3-4 up to 12
Many to choose from....
German 17cm Kanone 18 Towed Heavy Field Gun (1941)
American M114 155mm (155mm Howitzer M1) (1941)
Japanese Type 1 47mm Anti-Tank Gun 47mm Anti-Tank Gun (1942)
American M3 (105mm Howitzer M3) (1943)
Russian MT-13 Long-Range Towed Heavy Mortar (1943)
British QF 25-pounder Short Field Gun / Howitzer (1943)
Russian ZiS-2 57mm Anti-Tank Gun (1943)
German 10.5-cm leFH 18/40 Towed Howitzer (1944)
Russian 100mm Model 1944 (BS-3) Towed Artillery / Anti-Tank Gun (1944)
http://www.militaryfactory.com/armor/ww2-artillery.asp (http://www.militaryfactory.com/armor/ww2-artillery.asp)
Like LST's and Subs, this would help round out the game.
+1
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I agree that artillery could be a useful part of the AH ground game. However, I think the best way to implement arty would be to simply add it to a chassis already in game and make it self propelled artillery. :aok The M7 Priest with the 105mm howitzer is a prime example. They could also add in another M3 variant as well (w/ 105mm), come to think of it the SdKfz 251 had a arty piece (10.5cm?) mounted as well.
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I would like this, but there would need to be some sort of spotter system in place. For instance, like in BF3, if we had our clipboard up and a friendly was with in about 1K, it would show a circle on the map where it hit, with the circle getting smaller and smaller depending on the proximity of the hit to a friendly.
:salute
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I would like this, but there would need to be some sort of spotter system in place. For instance, like in BF3, if we had our clipboard up and a friendly was with in about 1K, it would show a circle on the map where it hit, with the circle getting smaller and smaller depending on the proximity of the hit to a friendly.
:salute
I say the best thing for a "spotter" system would be to allow for the "land fire" more like on the naval guns, and better yet allow for the Storch to spawn in with the gv's. The Storch was carted along to the front via trailer, it wasn't slown everywhere. A combination of those two things would be great!
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I say the best thing for a "spotter" system would be to allow for the "land fire" more like on the naval guns, and better yet allow for the Storch to spawn in with the gv's. The Storch was carted along to the front via trailer, it wasn't slown everywhere. A combination of those two things would be great!
Hadn't thought of that! That makes more sense now that I think about it. :salute
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I agree that artillery could be a useful part of the AH ground game. However, I think the best way to implement arty would be to simply add it to a chassis already in game and make it self propelled artillery. :aok The M7 Priest with the 105mm howitzer is a prime example. They could also add in another M3 variant as well (w/ 105mm), come to think of it the SdKfz 251 had a arty piece (10.5cm?) mounted as well.
This would seem to be a quicker solution than having to come up with a way to tow, unhitch, hitch, etc with towed guns.
Regards,
Hammer
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This would seem to be a quicker solution than having to come up with a way to tow, unhitch, hitch, etc with towed guns.
Regards,
Hammer
Exactly my point. Why develop an an entirely new vehicle or two when really all HTC would have to model is the upper hull, gun mount, gun, and gun ballistics, etc. The M4 Sherman is already there for the M7 Priest to be built on.
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Anyone remember the artillery system from Dawn of Aces? You'd fly in one of the two-man a/c over your target area, then select a spot on the map and radio for a spotting round from a fixed arty battery. This is similar to "land mode" for naval arty. The round would come in and you would then send a text message to adjust range and azimuth. In AH, this could be done as a coop activity, with a second player training the guns for the spotter, or the arty could be auto, like DoA's. Bases would need fixed arty for counter-battery, so you could lift in a storch, find the arty shelling your base, and then direct your base arty to counter-battery the attacker.
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Anyone remember the artillery system from Dawn of Aces? You'd fly in one of the two-man a/c over your target area, then select a spot on the map and radio for a spotting round from a fixed arty battery. This is similar to "land mode" for naval arty. The round would come in and you would then send a text message to adjust range and azimuth. In AH, this could be done as a coop activity, with a second player training the guns for the spotter, or the arty could be auto, like DoA's. Bases would need fixed arty for counter-battery, so you could lift in a storch, find the arty shelling your base, and then direct your base arty to counter-battery the attacker.
Also a good option :salute
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If we want them to be used as more than assault guns, I feel like a 150mm caliber gun would be best. Even 5" (127mm) requires a pretty near hit to take out buildings.
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If we want them to be used as more than assault guns, I feel like a 150mm caliber gun would be best. Even 5" (127mm) requires a pretty near hit to take out buildings.
Not if you go by the current damage model. The German 88mm (both versions) and the Soviet 85mm do 234lbs of damage. Compare the actual explosive capacity of those three rounds then compare the US 155mm or German 150mm artillery. IF HTC continues the scaling as it has it will make short work of a town just by splash damage alone regardless if the bug guns do 312 lbs of damage. Then again, HTC still has not given the 28cm rocket its due, while they did improve the damage it still lags behind where it should be in terms of destructive power.
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-1
This would be the new way of capping a base, 10km away from it.
Just set up a barrage of 3 guns and no one can take off.
With new GV icon system they are also close to impossible to track since we do not have smoke from shooting GV/Guns
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-1
This would be the new way of capping a base, 10km away from it.
Just set up a barrage of 3 guns and no one can take off.
With new GV icon system they are also close to impossible to track since we do not have smoke from shooting GV/Guns
Do the 5in naval guns ever "camp" an airfield? It is very difficult to get 5in guns coordinated let along close enough to the end of a run way to "cap" it. I've seen it where the 8in guns from the cruiser have the end of the runway zeroed in but even then planes get up between volleys.
The Panzer IV has long range smoke, and the Storch can mark them well enough too.
I dont think arty would be as dominating as you think, it would still have to be used in conjunction with other systems.
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Do the 5in naval guns ever "camp" an airfield? It is very difficult to get 5in guns coordinated let along close enough to the end of a run way to "cap" it. I've seen it where the 8in guns from the cruiser have the end of the runway zeroed in but even then planes get up between volleys.
The Panzer IV has long range smoke, and the Storch can mark them well enough too.
I dont think arty would be as dominating as you think, it would still have to be used in conjunction with other systems.
And, it would horribly vulnerable to counter-attack. Towed arty if not just thin-skinned; it's no-skinned! Unless several players cooperate to protect it, just about anything with a gun on it can take it out. In the DoA implementation I wrote about, it was not at all unbalancing, though in that case it was also not mobile. What might be a good way to maintain balance with mobile arty is to only be able to spawn one gun per player. To be affective, a group of players would need to set up close to each other, and share az/el info from the spotter. I would note that, if an M3 is used as the tow vehicle, you could always jump in the MG to protect it, but you would not be able to fire the arty while doing so.
Another idea is for a player to be able to "build" a protective berm around his/her towed gun, if they remain stationary long enough. Imagine that you pull up within arty range of your target. You press a key that deploys your gun (similar to lowering or raising landing gear, though it might take a bit longer; say 1 min), which effectively immobilizes the gun until you "un-deploy". A second key press begins construction of a protective, 3-sided berm around the guns (time to complete, say 5 minutes), providing some protection from direct fire and near-misses, once it is complete. The gun could not be fired while the berm is under construction. You can still bug-out with the gun (after 1 min "un-deploy" time); the berm would simply disappear as soon as you begin towing the gun away. This would have a bit of a "Command-and-Conquer" feel to it, I think. This idea of being able to construct temporary facilities is what's missing from the air-land battle of AH, IMO; it was the idea behind my FOB suggestion from several weeks ago. I.e. a deployable, but temporary base to conduct limited operations from. It would add a dynamic element to the MA that is sorely lacking.
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From what I know of ground game play based on mostly spawn camping.... and I don't think its a good idea to add arty to spawn campers arsenal.... -1
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From what I know of ground game play based on mostly spawn camping.... and I don't think its a good idea to add arty to spawn campers arsenal.... -1
You'd have to mass quite a bit of arty around the spawn point, since the actual spawn location is randomly dispersed around the point. Remember that my suggestion is one gun to a player. So, it would be more effective to spawn-camp with tanks instead. Plus, armored top GVs are not nearly as vulnerable to indirect arty fire as the arty is to direct fire from the spawning tanks. If on the other hand the arty sets up close enough to engage spawning GVs with direct fire, the advantage would still be to the spawning tank. However, if it became an issue, HTC could always open up the spawn dispersion a bit more.
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I like the idea but I would also like to see SPARTY added along with it.
How about the M7 Priest, M12 GMC, Sexton, Wespe & Hummel.
And add a few assault guns too:
M4(105) Sherman, JSU-152, SU-76, StuG III, StuG IV, Brummbär and Sturmtiger.
:aok
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I'm game, Blinder! Bring 'em on!
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I like the idea but I would also like to see SPARTY added along with it.
How about the M7 Priest, M12 GMC, Sexton, Wespe & Hummel.
And add a few assault guns too:
M4(105) Sherman, JSU-152, SU-76, StuG III, StuG IV, Brummbär and Sturmtiger.
:aok
+1
P.S> Need a jeep with a bazooka
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Remember that my suggestion is one gun to a player.
What was the "order of battle" for artillery in World War 2, on average? How was it broken down, as in, what was the smallest group -- four guns? I think that would be cool, to be able to set up a mobile battery.
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+1. Tis always been a need of this game.
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Battling in TT earlier I was parked near an enemy base plinking tanks as they upped :uhoh and For quite some time someone was raining down artillery fire on the base from what had to be an M4 calliope. He had to have been at his own base to continually respawn when he ran out of rockets because this went on for atleast 10 minutes until someone got sick of me camping their field and bombed me :o While this was going on I had several thoughts and observations.
Atmosphere wise it was really really cool to see rocket rounds landing in a steady fire all over the enemy base. Especially knowing it was coming from another friendly player.
He can easily hit the enemy base from his friendly base while sitting on concrete. So artillery range may be an issue
I do not think he destroyed a single target while I was there, although some rounds had to have at least damaged something. But accuracy and aiming is definitely a problem.
Rockets are almost invisible when fired from an M4 making it essentially impossible to determine where the fire is coming from.
It appears a catch22 situation unless alot of things were changed. If artillery is added currently it would be ineffective without a proper way to aim and direct fire. But if that was changed there would be no need to even attack an enemy base as artillery (even now with our calliope) can hit many of the enemy bases from their own base.
Actually with proper spotting, directions and a good amount of practice a couple of players in theory could wipe a vbase off the map without ever leaving the concrete of their own base :noid
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Battling in TT earlier I was parked near an enemy base plinking tanks as they upped :uhoh and For quite some time someone was raining down artillery fire on the base from what had to be an M4 calliope. He had to have been at his own base to continually respawn when he ran out of rockets because this went on for atleast 10 minutes until someone got sick of me camping their field and bombed me :o While this was going on I had several thoughts and observations.
Atmosphere wise it was really really cool to see rocket rounds landing in a steady fire all over the enemy base. Especially knowing it was coming from another friendly player.
He can easily hit the enemy base from his friendly base while sitting on concrete. So artillery range may be an issue
I do not think he destroyed a single target while I was there, although some rounds had to have at least damaged something. But accuracy and aiming is definitely a problem.
Rockets are almost invisible when fired from an M4 making it essentially impossible to determine where the fire is coming from.
It appears a catch22 situation unless alot of things were changed. If artillery is added currently it would be ineffective without a proper way to aim and direct fire. But if that was changed there would be no need to even attack an enemy base as artillery (even now with our calliope) can hit many of the enemy bases from their own base.
Actually with proper spotting, directions and a good amount of practice a couple of players in theory could wipe a vbase off the map without ever leaving the concrete of their own base :noid
I was thinking if we ever did get artillery that it would have a system similar to the 8Inchers of the fleets.
Click on the map and fire, then adjust accordingly. Spotters would be used, and if it was the same system as the 8in, then it would be relatively simple to aim.
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:aok
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,326777.0.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,326777.0.html)
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About the only thing I liked about world of tanks was the artillery. The problem for Aces High would be a fire directional system. Everything we now have is direct line of sight firing. A working FDC (Fire Directional Center) is the hard part. I would rather see towed anti tank guns like the German 75mm. :aok
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:aok
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,326777.0.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,326777.0.html)
:O I like.
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I was thinking if we ever did get artillery that it would have a system similar to the 8Inchers of the fleets.
Click on the map and fire, then adjust accordingly. Spotters would be used, and if it was the same system as the 8in, then it would be relatively simple to aim.
Sort of how I would imagine it too. But gameplay wise what happens when it becomes easy to destroy an enemy base without leaving yours?
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Sort of how I would imagine it too. But gameplay wise what happens when it becomes easy to destroy an enemy base without leaving yours?
Simply don't give it too long a range.
As for how to do it and what needs to be done. I'm not sure yet.
The easiest thing I can think of now is pretty much the M4's 'range of fire' for the commanders view. As for the 8incher method of 'map attack' as I call it, I'm not sure what range to put on that.
If it's too short, then what is the point of having it? If it's too long, then it's overpowered and would be the only thing used.
Delicate balance. Not sure as to how to balance this weapon without making it nerfed and everything else obsolete.
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Simply don't give it too long a range.
As for how to do it and what needs to be done. I'm not sure yet.
The easiest thing I can think of now is pretty much the M4's 'range of fire' for the commanders view. As for the 8incher method of 'map attack' as I call it, I'm not sure what range to put on that.
If it's too short, then what is the point of having it? If it's too long, then it's overpowered and would be the only thing used.
Delicate balance. Not sure as to how to balance this weapon without making it nerfed and everything else obsolete.
The tank guns we currently have can already can reach from base to base in many cases. It is balanced by not having a sight that can adequetly aim at such distances and not having line of sight to see where the shells hit. On the current map today we do have LOS from one base to another through a gap in the trees. (in TT) That means I can up an M4 and destroy a VH having never left my own fields concrete. Aiming could still be relatively easily established outside of game parameters. (assuming LOS to target)
Obviously(?) adding artillery support would either be useless if there is not at least a rudimentary way to aim, but game breaking if there is one. Reducing the range of artillery for game balance seems to me to go against the grain from what AH is.
This is how I would do it.
Give all non LOS GV's targeting capability that is a mix of ingame ship bombardment, and bomber calibration. Perhaps add a system msg if a structure is hit but not destroyed. I am thinking something that takes some time to "dial in" but afterwards is rewarding in ability to do damage.
All non LOS GV's with such capability can not spawn from a VH and must use a vehicle spawn point.
Non LOS fire should show in a similar way to cruiser or destroyer fire. (.i.e giving away the position) I say this because I think artillery fire should be very effective, but very risky.
Landed dmg should be a system message.
Currently HE tank shells have a very limited splash damage, so only the closest of direct hits really does much damage (try taking out troops with an HE round :uhoh). Perhaps there could be a small incentive to keep a base under constant bombardment?
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IMO, give it land gunner mode, but make it have a slight randomization in the exact aim point.
Say, it's accurate to 200 feet. Precise enough to hit a town, or a base, not precise enough to target a hanger by anything but luck. You would need a spotter or LOS to dial it in.
Or another option would be semi manual aiming. Give it a combination of sea mode and land mode. Take the view from sea gunner mode, and clean up the firing information area. Only display range in thousands of yards and azimuth of where the gun is currently pointing, and the information for the previous salvo. All firing information would be accurate to 3 decimal places (3 feet in terms of range, and about 2.5 seconds of arc)
When you click on the map, it will give you the firing information for the point you clicked, accurate to two decimal places (30 feet and about 30 seconds of arc), in a separate box below the current one. Let's call this the "firing computer"
The player has to manually lay the gun according to what the firing computer says, and reaim for recoil.
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IMO, give it land gunner mode, but make it have a slight randomization in the exact aim point.
Say, it's accurate to 200 feet. Precise enough to hit a town, or a base, not precise enough to target a hanger by anything but luck. You would need a spotter or LOS to dial it in.
Or another option would be semi manual aiming. Give it a combination of sea mode and land mode. Take the view from sea gunner mode, and clean up the firing information area. Only display range in thousands of yards and azimuth of where the gun is currently pointing, and the information for the previous salvo. All firing information would be accurate to 3 decimal places (3 feet in terms of range, and about 2.5 seconds of arc)
When you click on the map, it will give you the firing information for the point you clicked, accurate to two decimal places (30 feet and about 30 seconds of arc), in a separate box below the current one. Let's call this the "firing computer"
The player has to manually lay the gun according to what the firing computer says, and reaim for recoil.
I agree. Give it "land mode", and give it plenty of spread built in. HTC has done a well enough job with the naval guns and the spread they have, might as well bring it on over to the artillery. While the 8in guns can topple town buildings in 1 hit (direct or splash), I doubt we'll have an equal from a gv platform.
In the short term I think HTC could experiment with this by giving us "land mode" ability with the SdKfz 251 and the 28cm rockets we currently have. Thing is though, it had a max rang of 4500 yards, which would not be bad seeing as how that would force the SdKfz 251 to get off most spawn points to use them on an enemy town or field. No spawn in/fire/tower out ability, or at least in very few cases. Or, HTC could model the 15cm rockets that were also used by the 251's(15cm, 28cm, or 3.2cm rockets were used). The 15cm rockets had a range of 7500-8000 yards according to one source. More range and less oomph.
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IMO, give it land gunner mode, but make it have a slight randomization in the exact aim point.
Say, it's accurate to 200 feet. Precise enough to hit a town, or a base, not precise enough to target a hanger by anything but luck. You would need a spotter or LOS to dial it in.
Or another option would be semi manual aiming. Give it a combination of sea mode and land mode. Take the view from sea gunner mode, and clean up the firing information area. Only display range in thousands of yards and azimuth of where the gun is currently pointing, and the information for the previous salvo. All firing information would be accurate to 3 decimal places (3 feet in terms of range, and about 2.5 seconds of arc)
When you click on the map, it will give you the firing information for the point you clicked, accurate to two decimal places (30 feet and about 30 seconds of arc), in a separate box below the current one. Let's call this the "firing computer"
The player has to manually lay the gun according to what the firing computer says, and reaim for recoil.
I agree. Give it "land mode", and give it plenty of spread built in. HTC has done a well enough job with the naval guns and the spread they have, might as well bring it on over to the artillery. While the 8in guns can topple town buildings in 1 hit (direct or splash), I doubt we'll have an equal from a gv platform.
In the short term I think HTC could experiment with this by giving us "land mode" ability with the SdKfz 251 and the 28cm rockets we currently have. Thing is though, it had a max rang of 4500 yards, which would not be bad seeing as how that would force the SdKfz 251 to get off most spawn points to use them on an enemy town or field. No spawn in/fire/tower out ability, or at least in very few cases. Or, HTC could model the 15cm rockets that were also used by the 251's(15cm, 28cm, or 3.2cm rockets were used). The 15cm rockets had a range of 7500-8000 yards according to one source. More range and less oomph.
I like both of these ideas.
:aok :aok
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Seems to me we already have the M3 and the SKDFz251 to tow stuff. Even a jeep could tow an M1 howitzer.
We also have the ballistic models for the
M1/M3/M7
17 pounder ( complete with mount!)
Pak 41 & Pak 43 ( the latter also complete with mount)
We have land mode firing......
Obviously we have line of sight firing.......
You spawn towing the vehicle, travel to your spot, stop pointing the way you want the gun deployed and hit O.
5 secs later you are sitting in your gun under a camo net and your vehicle 20 yards behind you. Icons off to all enemies.
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Seems to me we already have the M3 and the SKDFz251 to tow stuff. Even a jeep could tow an M1 howitzer.
We also have the ballistic models for the
M1/M3/M7
17 pounder ( complete with mount!)
Pak 41 & Pak 43 ( the latter also complete with mount)
We have land mode firing......
Obviously we have line of sight firing.......
You spawn towing the vehicle, travel to your spot, stop pointing the way you want the gun deployed and hit O.
5 secs later you are sitting in your gun under a camo net and your vehicle 20 yards behind you. Icons off to all enemies.
+1
Perhaps make it so if flying less than a certain MPH you could see an icon if within say.. 200 yards? So those P51s zooooooooming by can't see your icon if hugging the trees, the enemy player would have to take the time and actually look around :D
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At 200 yards an icon is not required IMO........
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At 200 yards an icon is not required IMO........
:lol
Yeah I see your point. Don't need a billboard with an arrow pointing HERE
When it's right in front of you :)
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What busy little beavers those Redlegs are...5 seconds to deploy an artillery piece??
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Seems to me we already have the M3 and the SKDFz251 to tow stuff. Even a jeep could tow an M1 howitzer.
We also have the ballistic models for the
M1/M3/M7
17 pounder ( complete with mount!)
Pak 41 & Pak 43 ( the latter also complete with mount)
We have land mode firing......
Obviously we have line of sight firing.......
You spawn towing the vehicle, travel to your spot, stop pointing the way you want the gun deployed and hit O.
5 secs later you are sitting in your gun under a camo net and your vehicle 20 yards behind you. Icons off to all enemies.
None of those guns were used, at least in practice or in a SOP, for long range artillery work. The LVT-4 with the 75mm gun is the only thing we have in AH that was used for indirect fire support. Mind you, it fired the same exact shell as the M4 Sherman 75mm, but the sights and mount were the big difference (barrel length too).
Again, HTC could add the M7 Priest easy enough. The chassis is here (M4), land mode is here, only the gun itself would need to be modeled (and upper hull of M7).
K.I.S.S.
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They were all towed artillery that was used......that we have ballistic models for.
I don't think this thread is soley limited to long range artillery.
For sure medium range ( land mode directed) artillery has a role here.