Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: RipRap on November 20, 2013, 08:49:48 AM
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I know that the definition and circumstances about ho'ing have been raised ad nauseum over the years, but I need some clarification about this one.
During a sustained fight or furball I find myself coming over the top of an Immelman or pulling out of a Split-S or any other rolling turn, and a plane is right in front of me coming out of, or in the middle of a turn. I don't take the shot, simply because i don't feel like getting called out on 200 for ho'ing. 3/4 of the time the other guy does take the shot and down i go. So that being said, should i take the shot?
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I'm too new here to lay claim to any technical definition of HO'ing. However, I admit that a couple times I have done it, because it looked like the other guy was doing it to me. I knew what the end result would be, so I just squeezed the trigger and said "I ain't a gonna be the one that turns first, bro." Lately, when confronted with the last-second realization that I'm staring at a HO, pulling up or pulling right slightly seems to be working for me. I don't get HO'd as much, nor am I inclined to pull the trigger. I've also made a conscious effort to avoid co-alt head-on approaches. I seem to survive and fight more by constantly using low G and low E-draining banks and climbs as I approach an opponent. But I have no idea if this is the right way to do it. Intuitively, a head on approach just seems like a poor choice for a first step in the engagement, and not as "the" kill opportunity. Maybe ping the radiator, that's fine. But a full bore Kamikazi, guns a-blazing HO run just feels cheesy.
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If you have a clean shot and he dose not it is not a ho. Ho is not hard to understand Both nose on heading at each other at time of shot.
At least thats what i think.
In the last part of this merge video i give a quick explanation. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blQcADYuYfk
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If both planes have or can have guns on each other, it's a HO.
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I know that the definition and circumstances about ho'ing have been raised ad nauseum over the years, but I need some clarification about this one.
During a sustained fight or furball I find myself coming over the top of an Immelman or pulling out of a Split-S or any other rolling turn, and a plane is right in front of me coming out of, or in the middle of a turn. I don't take the shot, simply because i don't feel like getting called out on 200 for ho'ing. 3/4 of the time the other guy does take the shot and down i go. So that being said, should i take the shot?
Forget about the definition and the idiots that will call you out on 200. If you can get a shot in and he can't - do it! what you don't want is to get into a situation where both of you can shoot each other. However, there are always exceptions. If you are being ganged or otherwise at a great disadvantage and someone is stupid enough to allow you to shoot him in the face - do it. If you have a 262 coming at you - shoot it in the face, that is the only shot you will get and he deserves it. If you are in a 4 cannon bird and a Ki43/Brewster comes at you HO, shoot him in the face - it is his job to move out of the way.
Being called a cheater, a HO dweeb or a vulcher on 200 is a great honor. I take great pleasure in this when it happens, and usually it says more about the guy doing the *****ing than it does about you.
Duel are different. When agreeing to duel it is expected that the first merge is cold, and a HO shot after that is not entirely against the unwritten rules, but it is not "honorable". This applies only to arranged duels, not to the main arenas.
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I'm a "no ho" guy as well. I suppose I should abandon that position.
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If you have a clean shot and he dose not it is not a ho. Ho is not hard to understand Both nose on heading at each other at time of shot.
At least thats what i think.
In the last part of this merge video i give a quick explanation. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blQcADYuYfk
Starting at the 6:30 mark of the video is the exact scenario that i am referring to.
Forget about the definition and the idiots that will call you out on 200. If you can get a shot in and he can't - do it!
Good enough for me. Thanks
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Starting at the 6:30 mark of the video is the exact scenario that i am referring to.
Right on,as you can see in that engagement although we where both heading at each other ,i was inside his turn and he could not get a clean shot. :cheers:
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Sunka's video is close to HO but the opponent couldn't pull so its not sometimes though that guy isn't pulling to avoid that situation and I consider that an HO
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I'm a "no ho" guy as well. I suppose I should abandon that position.
Don't.
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The HO that most people avoid is the straight merge HO.
Once you are fighting somebody that you're trying to shoot down, the notion that you shouldn't shoot because your guns are pointing at each other seems kind of ludicrous.
I understand the exceptions but those are generally by mutual consent.
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I opened this thread expecting a picture of my ex to pop up. Whew. Lol
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I say please yourself. I myself am not very good but I don't usually pull the trigger unless I'm 30 plus degrees off the nose. The reason is I like trying to get better at maneuvering and enjoy that part of the game more than the blasting out of the sky part, also my aim is terrible so if I was in a head to head situation I'd probably die. I can be flying an a-20 or mossie and lose an HO to a zeke. The other thing is I am aware that the angles on the other guys computer are not the same as mine so I know some things that look like an HO to me are not at all. If somebody wants to shoot every shot they have more power to them but I really like those rare times that I get to fly repeated merges really close to the other guy without it ending abruptly. I know it's probably bad flying on my part but there it is.
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Sunka's video is close to HO but the opponent couldn't pull so its not sometimes though that guy isn't pulling to avoid that situation and I consider that an HO
If you want the RAW video i still have it...no way was he after the merge turn (to late) was he going to get his guns on me. :neener:
Just had to say . :angel:
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take the shot, doesn't matter what the other clown thinks. and remember, what he sees is a little bit off from what you see.
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If you want the RAW video i still have it...no way was he after the merge turn (to late) was he going to get his guns on me. :neener:
Just had to say . :angel:
I said it wasn't.... don't need the raw footage to tell that. :aok
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I said it wasn't.... don't need the raw footage to tell that. :aok
:lol Did i sound a bit defensive.
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A Head On, or HO, shot is frowned upon because it is the airplane equivalent of playing "chicken" with cars. Generally a bad move, and a high percentage of both planes going down. So, while a HO should be avoided, if it is the only shot you have, take it.
I most often get in a HO shot when I misjudge my opponent's turn, especially when I have a good case of tunnel vision going.
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:lol Did i sound a bit defensive.
A little....I'm sorry misunderstood
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HO shots require both planes having guns on each others. If one plane has guns on and the other doesn't then it is not a HO shot. The words "Head On" pretty much sums up what a HO shot is, but there's a lot of people who think anything in front of the 3-9 line is considered a HO shot. They're wrong.
I say take any shot you think you can win, including HO shots. They can complain all they want when they die but there is one blindingly simple fact that they simply choose to ignore: You died because you flew into their guns, don't do that next time! If your opponent is going to purposely fly into your gunsight then it'd be a crime NOT to shoot him.
:aok
All the complaining on 200 and range about "What a dweeb Hoing me like that!" is just really annoying. Do these people realize their plane has things called elevators, and ailerons, and a rudder? You can use these magical things to move your aircraft and not get shot! Amazing I know, right!?? :O
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Has anybody made a video from two plane's point of view with screen capture not the ah recorder to compare the difference in what it looks like? I've always been curious how that would look.
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HO shots require both planes having guns on each others. If one plane has guns on and the other doesn't then it is not a HO shot. The words "Head On" pretty much sums up what a HO shot is, but there's a lot of people who think anything in front of the 3-9 line is considered a HO shot. They're wrong.
I say take any shot you think you can win, including HO shots. They can complain all they want when they die but there is one blindingly simple fact that they simply choose to ignore: You died because you flew into their guns, don't do that next time! If your opponent is going to purposely fly into your gunsight then it'd be a crime NOT to shoot him.
Well said Trobe. :aok
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HO shots require both planes having guns on each others. If one plane has guns on and the other doesn't then it is not a HO shot. The words "Head On" pretty much sums up what a HO shot is, but there's a lot of people who think anything in front of the 3-9 line is considered a HO shot. They're wrong.
I say take any shot you think you can win, including HO shots. They can complain all they want when they die but there is one blindingly simple fact that they simply choose to ignore: You died because you flew into their guns, don't do that next time! If your opponent is going to purposely fly into your gunsight then it'd be a crime NOT to shoot him.
:aok
All the complaining on 200 and range about "What a dweeb Hoing me like that!" is just really annoying. Do these people realize their plane has things called elevators, and ailerons, and a rudder? You can use these magical things to move your aircraft and not get shot! Amazing I know, right!?? :O
When you're outnumbered 5-10 on one and get HO'd it's totally unnessesary regardless of having control surfaces or not.
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When you're outnumbered 5-10 on one and get HO'd it's totally unnessesary regardless of having control surfaces or not.
In order to determine the best course of action in a shoot/don't shoot situation, one would simple need to ask the question "what would Pappy Boyington do?". ;)
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A HO is any shot taken on you due to a failure of your ACM or SA :bolt:
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Many times, too many, I've found that I knew I could pull hard enough (burning considerable kinetic btw) to get around and HO if I had to, often though I relax the stick to try and better reposition. This is almost always the end of that sortie for me :bhead
I could pull it around, but it would be a HO (to me,) the other guy usually however does not consider it a HO because I did not pull. So thus, after a year and half I may now know what Redbul meant:
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,343064.0.html
see REdbul's comments, he later said he started off never ho'ing, but learned after a long time, there is a time and place, just no often...
I suppose it's only a HO if it is a HO in your mind, like Semp said forget the other guy...maybe?
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Here's the problem I have with Ho's: too many other blokes will take the shot while you're trying to play "nice". I've tried to avoid using it as much as possible, but more often than not, the other guy will take the shot first. This is especially true of BnZ'ers that I turn into. Most will shoot at you any way you can. Granted, most times it's easy to avoid them, but every now and then I will get clobbered. I don't often do it, but I will if I think it's the best shot at the time.
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HO shots require both planes having guns on each others. If one plane has guns on and the other doesn't then it is not a HO shot. The words "Head On" pretty much sums up what a HO shot is, but there's a lot of people who think anything in front of the 3-9 line is considered a HO shot. They're wrong.
I say take any shot you think you can win, including HO shots. They can complain all they want when they die but there is one blindingly simple fact that they simply choose to ignore: You died because you flew into their guns, don't do that next time! If your opponent is going to purposely fly into your gunsight then it'd be a crime NOT to shoot him.
To expand on this... I see it in the DA all the time. Two good pilots agree not to HO during a duel. Guess what happens...
It changes the way they fly. They don't necessarily have to work to stay out of each others guns during merges. They just have to bring their nose around enough to present a HO aspect.
In a duel, I agree with guns cold on the first merge, but after that crossing through your opponents gun site should be a very dangerous thing.
In the MA, you never want to allow an opponent a shot from any aspect. You should learn to use their attempt to HO you as an opportunity to gain an advantage on that first merge.
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:aokThis ^^ now where's that thread on avoid the ho again?