Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: hitech on November 20, 2013, 03:18:30 PM

Title: About the new terrain
Post by: hitech on November 20, 2013, 03:18:30 PM
The current stuff I am working on has a 660 Foot vertex res, AH currently has 2480 res. I doubt will will go denser then this.

The new system has 16 + 4 base texture types the 16 are base types like rock grass snow ext.... the 4 types are higher res and are things like fields small towns excreta.

There is also a color per vertex that is blended with the terrain textures, along with a detail mask type like rows, rock excreta that is blended in as you get closer to the terrain.

The terrain does cast shadows. I devolved a new system for doing this that is extremely fast. Ill try post a screen or film later today.

There will be a converter for existing terrains , but some clean up would add a lot to the terrains.

Water will be change to have full 3d wave effects.

We are dropping support for fixed pipeline, and will require shader version 3.0 minimum. On last count before we started this, I saw less the 20 accounts that have played in the last year that did not support 3.0 shaders.

Clouds will have a small rework that will improve frame rate because we can depend on shader style implementation.

The terrain editor will remain basically the same for implanting objects. But for the look of the terrain features,textures and tree type features,  it will make much more use of image editing tools.

I very much doubt trees will be destructible. Simple math of approximate 3000 objects per square mile and 512 x 512 miles creates over 1 gig of objects.  This creates many issues with both memory and speed on displaying the status on all front ends.

HiTech









 
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Gemini on November 20, 2013, 03:21:08 PM
You probably don't need to include excreta in the new terrain

We get enough of that on the BBS
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Slate on November 20, 2013, 03:27:09 PM
You probably don't need to include excreta in the new terrain

We get enough of that on the BBS

   :rofl

  Thanks HTC for the update.  :aok
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: ImADot on November 20, 2013, 03:29:27 PM
Sounds awesome! I think I'll wait for this release before continuing my 256-mile terrain project (which I haven't touched in many many months).
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Karnak on November 20, 2013, 03:39:38 PM
Thank you for the info.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: caldera on November 20, 2013, 03:42:19 PM
Quote
Water will be change to have full 3d wave effects.

 :O
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: hitech on November 20, 2013, 03:47:55 PM
As promised the video.

Note the fps shows 150 only because of the video capture from that view, it is above 500 fps and that is running a debug version.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=0HMX2YaZuco (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=0HMX2YaZuco)

HiTech
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: SirNuke on November 20, 2013, 03:49:42 PM
Awesome stuff and thanks for the update. Hopefully you will have a midnight revelation on how to implement destructible trees!
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Arlo on November 20, 2013, 03:55:46 PM
Awesome stuff and thanks for the update. Hopefully you will have a midnight revelation on how to implement destructible trees!

Don't be environmentally destructive. Shoot the tank, not the tree.  :aok
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Arlo on November 20, 2013, 03:57:30 PM
The current stuff I am working on has a 660 Foot vertex res, AH currently has 2480 res. I doubt will will go denser then this.

The new system has 16 + 4 base texture types the 16 are base types like rock grass snow ext.... the 4 types are higher res and are things like fields small towns excreta.

There is also a color per vertex that is blended with the terrain textures, along with a detail mask type like rows, rock excreta that is blended in as you get closer to the terrain.

The terrain does cast shadows. I devolved a new system for doing this that is extremely fast. Ill try post a screen or film later today.

There will be a converter for existing terrains , but some clean up would add a lot to the terrains.

Water will be change to have full 3d wave effects.

We are dropping support for fixed pipeline, and will require shader version 3.0 minimum. On last count before we started this, I saw less the 20 accounts that have played in the last year that did not support 3.0 shaders.

Clouds will have a small rework that will improve frame rate because we can depend on shader style implementation.

The terrain editor will remain basically the same for implanting objects. But for the look of the terrain features,textures and tree type features,  it will make much more use of image editing tools.

I very much doubt trees will be destructible. Simple math of approximate 3000 objects per square mile and 512 x 512 miles creates over 1 gig of objects.  This creates many issues with both memory and speed on displaying the status on all front ends.

HiTech


This is rather good news (though I already liked what we got). 3D waves? Cool.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Aspen on November 20, 2013, 04:15:53 PM
If whatever you said means the terrain will be pretty and relatively easy to handle without spending a bunch on my pew pew puter...sounds great!
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Midway on November 20, 2013, 04:25:10 PM
Awesome. :x

Thank you, thank you... for the hard work and surprises. :aok

 :rock
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Wildcatdad on November 20, 2013, 04:39:08 PM
So, about that Soviet bomber... :noid
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: GhostCDB on November 20, 2013, 04:40:25 PM
Awesome.  :aok
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: LCADolby on November 20, 2013, 04:42:29 PM
As promised the video.

Note the fps shows 150 only because of the video capture from that view, it is above 500 fps and that is running a debug version.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=0HMX2YaZuco (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=0HMX2YaZuco)

HiTech

Film just blew my mind!  :O
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Tinkles on November 20, 2013, 04:46:25 PM
Film just blew my mind!  :O

Yeah  =   :O

Very nicely done.  I cannot wait to see 1st hand  :aok


 :cheers:
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: SirNuke on November 20, 2013, 04:46:54 PM
I watched the one about the new terrain again, and the clipping seemed very well done also
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Zed on November 20, 2013, 04:51:27 PM

That terrain looks great.  No excreta, though, please.  It get's stuck in the tank tracks and makes everything smell bad.  That's tough when it's hot and you're spawn camping...
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: The Fugitive on November 20, 2013, 05:03:42 PM
Great Job HTC !!! What a great team they have there in Texas !
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Motherland on November 20, 2013, 06:17:10 PM
Wowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
I don't have timeeeeee for thisssssss
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: SPKmes on November 20, 2013, 07:01:05 PM
The current stuff I am working on has a 660 Foot vertex res, AH currently has 2480 res. I doubt will will go denser then this.

The new system has 16 + 4 base texture types the 16 are base types like rock grass snow ext.... the 4 types are higher res and are things like fields small towns excreta.

There is also a color per vertex that is blended with the terrain textures, along with a detail mask type like rows, rock excreta that is blended in as you get closer to the terrain.

The terrain does cast shadows. I devolved a new system for doing this that is extremely fast. Ill try post a screen or film later today.

There will be a converter for existing terrains , but some clean up would add a lot to the terrains.

Water will be change to have full 3d wave effects.

We are dropping support for fixed pipeline, and will require shader version 3.0 minimum. On last count before we started this, I saw less the 20 accounts that have played in the last year that did not support 3.0 shaders.

Clouds will have a small rework that will improve frame rate because we can depend on shader style implementation.

The terrain editor will remain basically the same for implanting objects. But for the look of the terrain features,textures and tree type features,  it will make much more use of image editing tools.

I very much doubt trees will be destructible. Simple math of approximate 3000 objects per square mile and 512 x 512 miles creates over 1 gig of objects.  This creates many issues with both memory and speed on displaying the status on all front ends.

HiTech









 

All this just made me feel so dumb  :lol :lol :lol :lol

The layman's video is good   :D
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: jedi25 on November 20, 2013, 07:08:42 PM
Awesome Hitech.. :aok
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Sunka on November 20, 2013, 07:26:24 PM
The current stuff I am working on has a 660 Foot vertex res, AH currently has 2480 res. I doubt will will go denser then this.

The new system has 16 + 4 base texture types the 16 are base types like rock grass snow ext.... the 4 types are higher res and are things like fields small towns excreta.

There is also a color per vertex that is blended with the terrain textures, along with a detail mask type like rows, rock excreta that is blended in as you get closer to the terrain.

The terrain does cast shadows. I devolved a new system for doing this that is extremely fast. Ill try post a screen or film later today.

There will be a converter for existing terrains , but some clean up would add a lot to the terrains.

Water will be change to have full 3d wave effects.

We are dropping support for fixed pipeline, and will require shader version 3.0 minimum. On last count before we started this, I saw less the 20 accounts that have played in the last year that did not support 3.0 shaders.

Clouds will have a small rework that will improve frame rate because we can depend on shader style implementation.

The terrain editor will remain basically the same for implanting objects. But for the look of the terrain features,textures and tree type features,  it will make much more use of image editing tools.

I very much doubt trees will be destructible. Simple math of approximate 3000 objects per square mile and 512 x 512 miles creates over 1 gig of objects.  This creates many issues with both memory and speed on displaying the status on all front ends.

HiTech









 
I only seen one word in this that made me. :banana:
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: 715 on November 20, 2013, 07:36:50 PM
The current stuff I am working on has a 660 Foot vertex res

Yaaaaaaayyy!   :banana:

(Will the ground type remain 4K?)
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Easyscor on November 20, 2013, 09:01:30 PM
Sweet!
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Volron on November 20, 2013, 09:22:12 PM
I hope water depth goes with that 3D water. :x
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Easyscor on November 20, 2013, 11:43:57 PM
hehe, you're just looking for the PBY. I want Subs and the Emily(?).
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Volron on November 21, 2013, 01:15:34 AM
hehe, you're just looking for the PBY. I want Subs and the Emily(?).

Ha!  I want the H6K! :x  But, I'll take the PBY and the H8K as well, since you brought them up. :D
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Charge on November 21, 2013, 01:45:14 AM
"I very much doubt trees will be destructible. Simple math of approximate 3000 objects per square mile and 512 x 512 miles creates over 1 gig of objects.  This creates many issues with both memory and speed on displaying the status on all front ends."

Of course and those dynamic changes would all need to be tracked and passed on to all clients in the vicinity.

I'd still suggest that while the objects remain indestructible please get rid of concrete shrubbery, I'd don't mind if the larger trees are concrete though.

-C+
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: artik on November 21, 2013, 02:24:39 AM
...
The current stuff I am working on has a 660 Foot vertex res, AH currently has 2480 res. I doubt

will will go denser then this.

The new system has 16 + 4 base texture types the 16 are base types like rock grass snow ext....

the 4 types are higher res and are things like fields small towns excreta.

There is also a color per vertex that is blended with the terrain textures, along with a detail

mask type like rows, rock excreta that is blended in as you get closer to the terrain.
...

Hi HiTech,

Can you please release an information about terrain data file formats as soon as it stable,
so I would be able to adopt the MakeAHMap: a tool for automatic terrain generation from geographical data:

http://www.hitechcreations.com/wiki/index.php/Terrain_Generation_From_Geographical_Data

I would really love to have some documented references for the file formats and not to "guess" them, for example, I got the exact relation between waterd.bmp and the elevation vertices only by trial and error.


Small questions:

- Are there any changes in river slope limits? Because currently they way stricter than the real world river slopes limiting the ability to embed some rivers into the terrain.
- Any chance that negative altitudes would be supported? (i.e. dead sea like areas ~ 1500 feet below the sea level)

Thanks!!!
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: BiPoLaR on November 21, 2013, 03:00:57 AM
This is all fine and dandy, but are the 2ft tall bushes still going to stop a tank dead in its tracks?
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: save on November 21, 2013, 03:06:57 AM
Maybe this can help players without Shader model 3 ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vWM-KnT62k
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Arlo on November 21, 2013, 03:45:39 AM
This is all fine and dandy, but are the 2ft tall bushes still going to stop a tank dead in its tracks?

And provide hull-down cover? Yeah, prolly. If only they were hard to avoid when driving. My
youngest step-son has the same problem. The other day there was a discussion with him about
his getting a scooter.

I look at him and say, 'A scooter?! You can't ride a bike without putting it into the bushes and
you want a scooter?!'

He says, 'Those bushes are tough obstacles! I bet they could stop a tank!'

'Funny you should say that.' I digressed (which is what he was hoping).

Crushing bushes under tank-treads and blowing up trees with main guns ... I bet Dale never thought
that would be paramount issues for the masses.

 ;)
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Randy1 on November 21, 2013, 07:31:29 AM
Is there a projected quarter for the new terrain?  Maybe in the first quarter of the coming year?  Has to be a ton of work to implement this kind of update.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Slate on November 21, 2013, 07:46:04 AM
This is all fine and dandy, but are the 2ft tall bushes still going to stop a tank dead in its tracks?
      I think they were intended to simulate Hedgerows.
(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc314/SHAEF1944/WWII_ColorizedBySHAEF/3rd-armored-30.jpg) (http://media.photobucket.com/user/SHAEF1944/media/WWII_ColorizedBySHAEF/3rd-armored-30.jpg.html)   (http://i433.photobucket.com/albums/qq52/erinmaro8/DSCF3540.jpg) (http://media.photobucket.com/user/erinmaro8/media/DSCF3540.jpg.html)
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: matt on November 21, 2013, 08:08:50 AM
Awesome. :x

Thank you, thank you... for the hard work and surprises. :aok

 :rock
quick grab a crow bar midway has his nose stuck.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Bizman on November 21, 2013, 08:15:29 AM
I'd still suggest that while the objects remain indestructible please get rid of concrete shrubbery, I'd don't mind if the larger trees are concrete though.
are the 2ft tall bushes still going to stop a tank dead in its tracks?

I may be wrong, but I believe bushes and trees are separate objects in the game. So, could it be possible to make the bushes destructible with a very short downtime, like a minute or so? That would show the track where a tank has been moving but wouldn't change the looks of the landscape forever. And of course a clever tanker wouldn't go through the bushes to avoid leaving tracks for bombers.

The hedgerow in Slate's picture looks like it there's more than just plants in it...

Anyway, thank you again for your efforts, keep on coading!  :salute
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Kazaa on November 21, 2013, 08:23:09 AM
See rule #4
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Midway on November 21, 2013, 08:36:06 AM
:O FPH Kazaa :rock :rock :rock

:pray :pray

:joystick:
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Greebo on November 21, 2013, 09:05:12 AM
There will be a converter for existing terrains , but some clean up would add a lot to the terrains.

The new terrain system is looking very promising so far. If needed I can rework my CraterMA terrain for it once the tools are available to do so.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: WWhiskey on November 21, 2013, 09:11:35 AM
The new terrain system is looking very promising so far. If needed I can rework my CraterMA terrain for it once the tools are available to do so.
on a side note,, would you be willing to ad your crater ma TT to the dueling arena map?
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Greebo on November 21, 2013, 11:42:05 AM
on a side note,, would you be willing to ad your crater ma TT to the dueling arena map?

I think the creator of the duelling map would have to do that.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: WWhiskey on November 21, 2013, 11:43:54 AM
I think the creator of the duelling map would have to do that.
agree!!!  just wondered if you would mind?  and I'm not sure who made the DA map either? 
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Greebo on November 21, 2013, 11:46:31 AM
I'd have no problem with someone copying the layout, either on the duelling or another MA map. I'd also be happy to advise on how to do it.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: WWhiskey on November 21, 2013, 11:54:21 AM
I'd have no problem with someone copying the layout, either on the duelling or another MA map. I'd also be happy to advise on how to do it.
Thanks!!!  If I could do it,I would!!!  I think It would help to keep GV'rs around when less GV friendly  maps are up!
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: wpeters on November 21, 2013, 04:20:17 PM
Just put a tank town in the Gv part of the map
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: earl1937 on November 21, 2013, 05:39:45 PM
The current stuff I am working on has a 660 Foot vertex res, AH currently has 2480 res. I doubt will will go denser then this.

The new system has 16 + 4 base texture types the 16 are base types like rock grass snow ext.... the 4 types are higher res and are things like fields small towns excreta.

There is also a color per vertex that is blended with the terrain textures, along with a detail mask type like rows, rock excreta that is blended in as you get closer to the terrain.

The terrain does cast shadows. I devolved a new system for doing this that is extremely fast. Ill try post a screen or film later today.

There will be a converter for existing terrains , but some clean up would add a lot to the terrains.

Water will be change to have full 3d wave effects.

We are dropping support for fixed pipeline, and will require shader version 3.0 minimum. On last count before we started this, I saw less the 20 accounts that have played in the last year that did not support 3.0 shaders.

Clouds will have a small rework that will improve frame rate because we can depend on shader style implementation.

The terrain editor will remain basically the same for implanting objects. But for the look of the terrain features,textures and tree type features,  it will make much more use of image editing tools.

I very much doubt trees will be destructible. Simple math of approximate 3000 objects per square mile and 512 x 512 miles creates over 1 gig of objects.  This creates many issues with both memory and speed on displaying the status on all front ends.

HiTech









 
:airplane: Outstanding and  :salute to Hi Tech!
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: WWhiskey on November 21, 2013, 06:05:34 PM
Just put a tank town in the Gv part of the map
that's what I was getting at,, updating the GV area of the DA
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Easyscor on November 21, 2013, 10:05:10 PM
Like Artik, I'm hoping for some advance information on the file formats if possible.

Please clarify; is the elevation file format going to be a plain 16 bit binary file, or perhaps some tiff format? I think I can deal with the rest if I have that question answered.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: hitech on November 22, 2013, 08:32:36 AM
Like Artik, I'm hoping for some advance information on the file formats if possible.

Please clarify; is the elevation file format going to be a plain 16 bit binary file, or perhaps some tiff format? I think I can deal with the rest if I have that question answered.

Elevation is a 16 bit file.

HiTech
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: detch01 on November 22, 2013, 08:36:58 AM
...
We are dropping support for fixed pipeline, and will require shader version 3.0 minimum.
....

HiTech

HT,
Just out of curiosity.. Are you going to support up to version 5?

Cheers,
asw
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Easyscor on November 22, 2013, 08:44:16 AM
Elevation is a 16 bit file.

HiTech

Thank you. Thank you very much.  :aok
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Waffle on November 22, 2013, 04:07:24 PM
Here is an example of the color per vertex tint map Hitech was describing.

This Gif animation involves only single terrain type - sand/dirt.

The tint map can be modified to colors of the creators choosing and will affect the overall color of the entire terrain.



Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Easyscor on November 22, 2013, 04:52:38 PM
I look forward to playing with that. Thank you Waffle.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: CASHEW on November 22, 2013, 05:14:51 PM
will frame rate get crappy?
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Tinkles on November 22, 2013, 05:31:29 PM
will frame rate get crappy?

What system do you have?

Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: ImADot on November 22, 2013, 05:33:37 PM
will frame rate get crappy?

If anything, I'm hoping frame rates will be a bit better since they will no longer be limiting themselves to the oldest most out-of-date graphics rendering modes:

Quote
We are dropping support for fixed pipeline, and will require shader version 3.0 minimum. On last count before we started this, I saw less the 20 accounts that have played in the last year that did not support 3.0 shaders.

Clouds will have a small rework that will improve frame rate because we can depend on shader style implementation.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Bino on November 22, 2013, 06:01:59 PM
Awesome!  Thanks, you guys!   :salute
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Babalonian on November 22, 2013, 10:17:41 PM
This looks great!

What about airfields and vehicle bases, will they see a remodel or more/different variety of them?  Destroyable trees within the immediate area of the fields (the couple dozen or so) or runways?
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: shoresroad on November 23, 2013, 01:45:24 AM
And how about switching to real maps of Europe, North Africa and the South Pacific to make Aces High more like a WWII flight combat simulator.  AH has a fantastic plane set and FM's but these Fantasy Island maps and chess piece enemy combatants really hurt immersion no matter how good the game looks.  The MA is like flying WWII planes at Disneyland for crying out loud.

What do we have...about 12 or 13 fantasy maps we rotate through.  How about 12 or 13 different regions of Europe, North Africa and the South Pacific instead.  And what about those guys called the Allies, Germans and Japanese.  I think they had something to do with WWII also.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Fish42 on November 23, 2013, 08:47:13 AM
And how about switching to real maps of Europe, North Africa and the South Pacific to make Aces High more like a WWII flight combat simulator.  AH has a fantastic plane set and FM's but these Fantasy Island maps and chess piece enemy combatants really hurt immersion no matter how good the game looks.  The MA is like flying WWII planes at Disneyland for crying out loud.

What do we have...about 12 or 13 fantasy maps we rotate through.  How about 12 or 13 different regions of Europe, North Africa and the South Pacific instead.  And what about those guys called the Allies, Germans and Japanese.  I think they had something to do with WWII also.

ah no. There is events held all month that use maps and plane sets that are more "realistic". Those maps will be fixed up using the new program.

Or you can fly Ava if you want to fight Allies vs Axis... but you might struggle to get in with all those people packing the room.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Bizman on November 23, 2013, 09:09:40 AM
And what about those guys called the Allies, Germans and Japanese.  I think they had something to do with WWII also.
Have you ever been bullied, or worse, bullying someone about his origins? There are players from all over the world and I bet if the MA countries were named after real ones, there'd be a whole lot of conflicts. Old victories, losses, misbehaviours etc. aren't forgotten and when certain elements apply they'd pop into surface. You wouldn't like to be called names just because of your choice of country, would you? Switching countries could also raise some debate. This chess piece neutrality is a simple way to avoid many types of problems which could occur if some players were dru... err, tired, adrenalized, excited beyond their normal behaviour etc.

FWIW I'd like to see more real world based maps on MA, too. It's just nice to have names for fields instead of A##.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: GScholz on November 23, 2013, 10:01:55 AM
What happened to the Baltic map? I don't remember anyone having nationalistic problems with it... And that map included parts of Germany, Poland, Russia, Finland to name a few.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Lusche on November 23, 2013, 10:04:32 AM
What happened to the Baltic map?


Nothing happened to it.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: GScholz on November 23, 2013, 10:15:03 AM
I too would like more maps based on real locations. I really liked the baltic map, and I think Guadalcanal would make a great map. Locations in Africa and South America could also make for interesting maps with real cities and landmarks.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: The Fugitive on November 23, 2013, 10:46:27 AM
The problem with "real world" maps is they don't always provide a "fair" /"balanced" arena. Look at Mindanao.

(https://www.google.com/maps/vt/data=VLHX1wd2Cgu8wR6jwyh-km8JBWAkEzU4,IqdMQQo9TFgeKQvjkjnnmpmmFceKwa0XCIJ44QpGYgjU-w9Y23sJd9CToIqde2rT88WgSqh-bPxxK_gp81jtn7WaiXeNzP-x1GGz67X40mEhVh4nBC7-f8OyyuZ-2FmRIa2YrX43nWYr6h0t36zgSS4BKRhUb7PZxOaukdf4F4Nn2T-ep6uKu6h2zfIoKGSPmUOWAN9X)

If the map starts with your team in the western side odds are very good your going to win the map. Southern, well just turn over your flag  :devil

Sure it looks like a real world place but the groans that come up when that map is up! I know it has very few GV battle spots and that is one of it's issues, but still it's is a bit out of balance.

Now if map makers made maps with real world setup like this added thought should be added in. If the Mindanao map were to be made today maybe have the southern country have a dozen more bases, and/or a few GV spawns behind enemy lines to even the odds a bit. Use game play mechanics to off set an advantage given by real world terrain lay outs.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Bizman on November 23, 2013, 12:06:19 PM
The problem with "real world" maps is they don't always provide a "fair" /"balanced" arena. Look at Mindanao...
That is absolutely true. On the other hand, life isn't fair. Why should virtual life make a difference? After all, the circulation of maps also changes the starting situation on each map, evening the odds. Why couldn't the current country on the southern side of the Mindanao just accept the situation as a challenge instead of waiting for the evident loss and map change? Waiting to be beaten is just so un-american! And yet the majority of players still come from the USA... Besides, on any map the country situated on the bottom triangle has the psychological disadvantage of having to work their way up.

There are locations on the Earth that could be transformed to tri-symmetrical (couldn't figure out a better word for that) like the surroundings of the Great Lakes. Indians, Inuits and Europeans. Or Englishmen, Frenchmen and Savages, if that sounds better. Another approach could be to take some identifiable spot and make a threefold kaleidoscopic image of it. How about a triple Italy surrounding a three-bay Mediterranean? Or a triple Iberian Peninsula with the Pyrenees in the middle, surrounded by seas?

Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: The Fugitive on November 23, 2013, 01:04:12 PM
That is absolutely true. On the other hand, life isn't fair. Why should virtual life make a difference? After all, the circulation of maps also changes the starting situation on each map, evening the odds. Why couldn't the current country on the southern side of the Mindanao just accept the situation as a challenge instead of waiting for the evident loss and map change? Waiting to be beaten is just so un-american! And yet the majority of players still come from the USA... Besides, on any map the country situated on the bottom triangle has the psychological disadvantage of having to work their way up.

There are locations on the Earth that could be transformed to tri-symmetrical (couldn't figure out a better word for that) like the surroundings of the Great Lakes. Indians, Inuits and Europeans. Or Englishmen, Frenchmen and Savages, if that sounds better. Another approach could be to take some identifiable spot and make a threefold kaleidoscopic image of it. How about a triple Italy surrounding a three-bay Mediterranean? Or a triple Iberian Peninsula with the Pyrenees in the middle, surrounded by seas?



As a GAME starting even is the goal. I believe HTC wants their maps "even" when submitted as everyone that has been added in a long time is. Either that or these map makers are going out of their way to make even sided maps and HTC couldn't care less.

Making a map that has 3 Italys is as far fetched as some of the maps we have now. The post was about using "real" maps not modifying real maps to to accommodate the "rules". Changing the rules to make "real" maps more even thru added base counts or positioning of bases might be something HTC could do.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Bizman on November 23, 2013, 01:32:40 PM
As a GAME starting even is the goal.
I stand corrected.  :salute

Yet I wouldn't consider the triplicated map idea equally far fetched as the fully imaginary ones: There would be identifiable landmarks which could add something to the game. I believe it would be more motivating to protect "our" Rome or to capture "their" Rome than just doing the same for A27 or A66. But of course that is just my opinion and I don't make maps so what would I know anyway.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Heater on November 23, 2013, 03:39:30 PM
HT...

All I can say is. it's about time, but your code.... well.... you can't  I mean it's like you are still on a vic 20 :salute






Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: ImADot on November 23, 2013, 05:24:44 PM
About unbalanced, real-world maps...

If the maps weren't balanced with land mass and numbers of bases, everyone would pile onto the side with the advantages as soon as the map shows up, so they don't have to work so hard to capture bases. This would not be good for gameplay.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on November 24, 2013, 06:28:31 AM
About unbalanced, real-world maps...

If the maps weren't balanced with land mass and numbers of bases, everyone would pile onto the side with the advantages as soon as the map shows up, so they don't have to work so hard to capture bases. This would not be good for gameplay.

Do you really think people would switch countries for that?
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: LCADolby on November 24, 2013, 06:46:57 AM
Do you really think people would switch countries for that?

I'd bet 25% of the arena would
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: zack1234 on November 24, 2013, 07:03:55 AM
As a GAME starting even is the goal. I believe HTC wants their maps "even" when submitted as everyone that has been added in a long time is. Either that or these map makers are going out of their way to make even sided maps and HTC couldn't care less.

Making a map that has 3 Italys is as far fetched as some of the maps we have now. The post was about using "real" maps not modifying real maps to to accommodate the "rules". Changing the rules to make "real" maps more even thru added base counts or positioning of bases might be something HTC could do.

The game is 'NEVER' even based the fact that Knights are always outnumbered  :old:
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on November 24, 2013, 07:18:42 AM
I'd bet 25% of the arena would

So the solution is to remove the 'war winning' aspect which clearly causes problems in the game if people are gamey enough to destroy the game balance just for this.

Base takes could be made attractive simply through awarding perks and score to people who participate to the fight in the area. And to avoid gaming the game by all hording to one side, make perk/point rewards directly related to the numbers. If you're in a 10:1 horde in the sector when base take happens you get awarded 1 perkie, if you're 1:10 under dog when base take happens, award 100 perkies. Only dumb people would horde after that as balance would be more beneficial whatever way the base take would happen.

As an idea bases could be tied to certain planetypes (i.e. own base A1, get use of Spit16, Pony D...) for example, which would make fighting over strategic bases interesting even without the 'war winning' aspect. Just like losing your last port rips you off of a CV capability.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Karnak on November 24, 2013, 07:23:19 AM
So the solution is to remove the 'war winning' aspect which clearly causes problems in the game if people are gamey enough to destroy the game balance just for this.
That is a "destroy the village to save the village" type of solution.   That would probably cause the loss of 50-90% of plyers immediately,  shortly followed by the rest.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: zack1234 on November 24, 2013, 08:26:59 AM
This is a outrageous suggestion :old:

What would the Jokers do in game if this was implemented :old:

The horde would no longer be valid! :old:
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: The Fugitive on November 24, 2013, 08:31:06 AM
So the solution is to remove the 'war winning' aspect which clearly causes problems in the game if people are gamey enough to destroy the game balance just for this.

Base takes could be made attractive simply through awarding perks and score to people who participate to the fight in the area. And to avoid gaming the game by all hording to one side, make perk/point rewards directly related to the numbers. If you're in a 10:1 horde in the sector when base take happens you get awarded 1 perkie, if you're 1:10 under dog when base take happens, award 100 perkies. Only dumb people would horde after that as balance would be more beneficial whatever way the base take would happen.

As an idea bases could be tied to certain planetypes (i.e. own base A1, get use of Spit16, Pony D...) for example, which would make fighting over strategic bases interesting even without the 'war winning' aspect. Just like losing your last port rips you off of a CV capability.

One, you can't do away with the "win the warz" as that is what drives most of the battles. Sure you get some furballs/spawncamps that pop up and have nothing to do with the "war" is is nothing but battle for the sake of battle. For the most part, if there is no war, the arenas would soon look like WWI arena.

Incentive by perks.... naw I don't think so. The reason the "win the warz" guys race to grab base after base is because that is what the game is ..... to them any way. The whole object of this game is to capture as many bases as it takes to WIN DA WARZ! So perks are unimportant... ask the P38 drivers that lawn darted all along the landscape  :rolleyes: So earning less perks isn't going to do a thing. Upping the score and/or perks for defending out number might help get more defenders.

Tying planes to bases is like forcing players into something. HTC has never been into forcing anyone to do anything. Again these players rarely take bases due to strategic reasons. More often than not it's the next undefended base that no body is watching.

The problem is the horde as I see it. If the horde was split up there would be a longer front for battles to happen on. As it is now you have the Bish horde hitting the Knits and the Knit horde hitting the Rooks and the rook horde hitting the Bish..... never the hordes shall meet! So you either ride with the horde or fight against it.

So in the "not forcing anyone to do anything" or the "take anything away form players" mode what things can be done to create more fights? Sure some like Panos, Rocky, TonyJoey love hordes as they think fighting is just circling over a group of planes to dive in pick one and blow out the other side to only turn back once they have their perch back. For for most of the "fighter" types flying with the horde your spending all your time trying to beat your teammates to the kill or fighting against the horde your spending all your time dodging HOs taking snap shots to try and get a kill, neither can really be called "fighting".

Tying the requirements for the base capture to the number of attackers would still allow hordes to attack, but being harder to capture would give defenders more time to fight back. Small fast attacks wouldn't have to work as hard to capture bases. This would encourage small attack groups but still allow the horde should players still want that kind of mission. While it still allows the hordes Im thinking that as I believe todays players are more interested in grabbing as many bases as they can to win da warz that you would see the groups split up and attack 2-3 base at the same time looking to do quick easy grabs over the long drawn out horde attack. Picture 2 or 3 new attacks coming along every 20-30 minutes or so all over the map. Quick attack, grab the base or not, move on to a new attack. There would be short quick fights all over the map.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on November 24, 2013, 09:29:01 AM
One, you can't do away with the "win the warz" as that is what drives most of the battles. Sure you get some furballs/spawncamps that pop up and have nothing to do with the "war" is is nothing but battle for the sake of battle. For the most part, if there is no war, the arenas would soon look like WWI arena.

I never played a second 'to win the war'. I played to have fun battles and couldn't care less for the map winning part. The map winning hording is what pushed me away from AH.

Quote
Incentive by perks.... naw I don't think so. The reason the "win the warz" guys race to grab base after base is because that is what the game is ..... to them any way. The whole object of this game is to capture as many bases as it takes to WIN DA WARZ! So perks are unimportant... ask the P38 drivers that lawn darted all along the landscape  :rolleyes: So earning less perks isn't going to do a thing. Upping the score and/or perks for defending out number might help get more defenders.

Yes so we return back to the unhealthy attitude caused by efforts to 'win the war'.

Quote
Tying planes to bases is like forcing players into something. HTC has never been into forcing anyone to do anything. Again these players rarely take bases due to strategic reasons. More often than not it's the next undefended base that no body is watching.

Oddly enough nobody has cried out on quitting the game because the CV is not usable after the last port is lost. What people do? They fight to get it back.

Quote
The problem is the horde as I see it. If the horde was split up there would be a longer front for battles to happen on. As it is now you have the Bish horde hitting the Knits and the Knit horde hitting the Rooks and the rook horde hitting the Bish..... never the hordes shall meet! So you either ride with the horde or fight against it.

Yes which is why I brought up the issue of 1) negating the need for hording and 2) punishing the players by reducing points if they attend a horde. It should be more rewarding to be the underdog than going where the bar is the lowest.

Quote
So in the "not forcing anyone to do anything" or the "take anything away form players" mode what things can be done to create more fights? Sure some like Panos, Rocky, TonyJoey love hordes as they think fighting is just circling over a group of planes to dive in pick one and blow out the other side to only turn back once they have their perch back. For for most of the "fighter" types flying with the horde your spending all your time trying to beat your teammates to the kill or fighting against the horde your spending all your time dodging HOs taking snap shots to try and get a kill, neither can really be called "fighting".

Tying the requirements for the base capture to the number of attackers would still allow hordes to attack, but being harder to capture would give defenders more time to fight back. Small fast attacks wouldn't have to work as hard to capture bases. This would encourage small attack groups but still allow the horde should players still want that kind of mission. While it still allows the hordes Im thinking that as I believe todays players are more interested in grabbing as many bases as they can to win da warz that you would see the groups split up and attack 2-3 base at the same time looking to do quick easy grabs over the long drawn out horde attack. Picture 2 or 3 new attacks coming along every 20-30 minutes or so all over the map. Quick attack, grab the base or not, move on to a new attack. There would be short quick fights all over the map.

If score would be tied to numbers, defenders could decide to abandon base leaving the horde to have its inevitable result of a base take but deny any victory points for it ;) Same thing would make milk running empty bases fruitless, a solution that would solve the two stupidest things in AH that I know of. Perhaps the system could also reward points and perks to base defenders after a successful defense against a mission or a large horde pounding.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: -error on November 24, 2013, 10:31:00 AM
Are we going to get something like this (http://imageshack.us/a/img10/5929/497z.jpg)
with new terrain engine?
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on November 24, 2013, 10:36:00 AM
Are we going to get something like this (http://imageshack.us/a/img10/5929/497z.jpg)
with new terrain engine?

RC planes high?
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Megalodon on November 24, 2013, 11:02:24 AM
The new terrain system is looking very promising so far. If needed I can rework my CraterMA terrain for it once the tools are available to do so.

Cool your while there ....add some Ju87G2's for the v-bases inside the crater  :aok
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: KG45 on November 24, 2013, 11:28:36 AM
'excreta' ?  :huh
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: The Fugitive on November 24, 2013, 12:08:05 PM
I never played a second 'to win the war'. I played to have fun battles and couldn't care less for the map winning part. The map winning hording is what pushed me away from AH.

Like I said to Semp, this isn't about you. It doesn't matter whether YOU ever play to win the war it's what most of the players are doing.

Quote
Yes so we return back to the unhealthy attitude caused by efforts to 'win the war'.

Winning the war type of game play isn't "unhealthy", it is what drives the combat. Look at WWI arena. There is no base capture, no win the war, and it's a ghost town.

Quote
Oddly enough nobody has cried out on quitting the game because the CV is not usable after the last port is lost. What people do? They fight to get it back.

Yes which is why I brought up the issue of 1) negating the need for hording and 2) punishing the players by reducing points if they attend a horde. It should be more rewarding to be the underdog than going where the bar is the lowest.

You can't take away the horde. If you stop it you will lose a bunch of players as that is the type of game they want to play.  New players hide in it until they feel they have enough skill to move out..... for those looking to improve. For those that couldn't care less about being a good dogfighter they have to have a place/style to play as well or they are gone. That's why I suggests letting the horde continue, but some way must be brought into the game to counter it. Either by changing how hard it is for a larger group to take a base or some other adjustment to game play mechanics.

Quote
If score would be tied to numbers, defenders could decide to abandon base leaving the horde to have its inevitable result of a base take but deny any victory points for it ;) Same thing would make milk running empty bases fruitless, a solution that would solve the two stupidest things in AH that I know of. Perhaps the system could also reward points and perks to base defenders after a successful defense against a mission or a large horde pounding.

Like ALL scoring it is open to "tweaking" ....bombing town centers, using the cookie only and rearming and any other trick you wish to name to work the scoreboard. However it is a "carrot" you can use to turn game play into another direction. If there was a bonus score for killing troops and goons how many more "hunters" do you think you'd see?

Horde play is very much part of the game and HTC has shown that they are ok with it seeing as they haven't done anything to curb it. Building it into the game and providing a counter or a way to make it "fun" or worth going against is  or should be the next step.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Bizman on November 24, 2013, 12:12:32 PM
'excreta' ?  :huh
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/excreta (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/excreta)  I'm not any kind of an expert in coading, but I believe that must be something that makes the grass pop up when you're close enough to the ground. Some kind of virtual instant fertilizer, that is.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Greebo on November 24, 2013, 12:13:15 PM
Cool your while there ....add some Ju87G2's for the v-bases inside the crater  :aok

Actually one thing I would like added to the game is a new forward airfield with no ord bunkers and bomber hangars. This would let terrain designers place airfields near tank town for fighter defence without bringing bombers too near as well. Give it an "F" prefix so it would be obvious from the map. It could have a pierced steel runway and a temporary looking, largely tented infrastructure.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on November 24, 2013, 01:30:29 PM
Like I said to Semp, this isn't about you. It doesn't matter whether YOU ever play to win the war it's what most of the players are doing.

First of all, please never EVER put me and semp in the same sentence!

Second, I can only speak of my personal experience. Since I belong to the crowd that HAS flocked away from AH and I know the reasons why I did it, I talk about it. The people who like the current situation seem to be diminishing rapidly.

Quote
Winning the war type of game play isn't "unhealthy", it is what drives the combat. Look at WWI arena. There is no base capture, no win the war, and it's a ghost town.

WWI arena is a ghost town due to lack of players and a limited planeset. If war winning was important the EW and MW servers should be bristling with players too. Well they aren't so your point is void.

Quote
You can't take away the horde. If you stop it you will lose a bunch of players as that is the type of game they want to play.  New players hide in it until they feel they have enough skill to move out..... for those looking to improve. For those that couldn't care less about being a good dogfighter they have to have a place/style to play as well or they are gone. That's why I suggests letting the horde continue, but some way must be brought into the game to counter it. Either by changing how hard it is for a larger group to take a base or some other adjustment to game play mechanics.

You can install a penalty for joining the horde. You would get your easy kills but you wouldn't gain much score that way. So players who care about bragging rights and rank would pick a C202 to fight with the under dog instead, in my idea of a scenario. A single C202 kill of a P51D against a horde would score you heaps - as it should because it's infinately more demanding for a player to achieve.

Quote
Like ALL scoring it is open to "tweaking" ....bombing town centers, using the cookie only and rearming and any other trick you wish to name to work the scoreboard. However it is a "carrot" you can use to turn game play into another direction. If there was a bonus score for killing troops and goons how many more "hunters" do you think you'd see?

I think there is reward enough in preventing the base capture as it is. Most people will immediately drop a goon if they see it.

Quote
Horde play is very much part of the game and HTC has shown that they are ok with it seeing as they haven't done anything to curb it. Building it into the game and providing a counter or a way to make it "fun" or worth going against is  or should be the next step.

HTC has shown that they're on a decline and they need to turn direction or go the route of Warbirds. AH was WB:s WT. Reinvent yourself or die, this is the sad truth.

I'm not saying my ideas are a miracle solution to anything, this is just the first things I would change in the gameplay if I could.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: -error on November 24, 2013, 01:36:40 PM
RC planes high?

Not sure what are you saying. It's a screenshot from WT.  :bolt:
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on November 24, 2013, 01:38:02 PM
Not sure what are you saying. It's a screenshot from WT.  :bolt:

The grass texture gives me the impression that the plane is an RC plane sitting on a dry grass field.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Lusche on November 24, 2013, 01:40:05 PM
WWI arena is a ghost town due to lack of players and a limited planeset. If war winning was important the EW and MW servers should be bristling with players too. Well they aren't so your point is void.


It took a long time (years) of gradual decline for EW & MW to arrive at the current numbers. WW1 lost it's appeal very quickly, within a few weeks only. And the main reason was indeed a very one dimensional style of combat, which will get quite boring for most players after some time. More so, if you are not an 'ACM god', which very few are. Most ppl do suck in fighters compared to that top 10%, and having a fully developed gameplay enables them to contribute in different ways (and get a sense of 'winning' every once and then)
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Lusche on November 24, 2013, 01:40:49 PM
The grass texture gives me the impression that the plane is an RC plane sitting on a dry grass field.

I actually had about the same impression   ;)
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on November 24, 2013, 01:48:31 PM

It took a long time (years) of gradual decline for EW & MW to arrive at the current numbers. WW1 lost it's appeal very quickly, within a few weeks only. And the main reason was indeed a very one dimensional style of combat, which will get quite boring for most players after some time. More so, if you are not an 'ACM god', which very few are. Most ppl do suck in fighters compared to that top 10%, and having a fully developed gameplay enables them to contribute in different ways (and get a sense of 'winning' every once and then)

The last time I tried WWI arena it had multiple problems - the planes felt like at beta stage, very crude. The flight model was so different from MA that I got clobbered by the handful of WWI 'vets' including magic bb deaths so I couldn't bother to stay much longer. I'm sure most people who tried it share my experience. The MA was more attractive with its familiar FM and planeset - and it had much more action.

I'm not sure if you could even capture bases in WWI, no gvs etc so it's very different. Like I said if bases would be given real strategic importance much like ports do now, people would really fight for them and try to regain them if they lost the last field that provides a certain planetype for example. Maps could cycle periodically without the need to capture everything. Haven't you noticed how much interest a loss of the last port attracts for example? Defending it makes sense because it will have an actual impact if its lost. On the other hand the opposing side doesn't have such an impact in owning the field to horde massively for it, especially if points would decline rapidly in a horde.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: 715 on November 24, 2013, 01:58:42 PM
The grass texture gives me the impression that the plane is an RC plane sitting on a dry grass field.

I instantly thought the same thing when I saw that image. 
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Easyscor on November 24, 2013, 01:59:21 PM
I still miss the old Depots from AH1. That's why I include custom vBases with a few town buildings as a village in some of my AvA terrains .

What I'd like to see for the MA, is the addition of different types of vBases with a village, or a railyard, or a steelmill, etc., but with only two VHs to balance the added difficulty. They would behave exactly like the current vBase, but with the buildings (railcars etc) that would need to be destroyed before capture.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Karnak on November 24, 2013, 02:05:11 PM
My jmpression of the WT screenshot was also of a toy airplane in a dry, grass field.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Megalodon on November 24, 2013, 06:34:21 PM
Actually one thing I would like added to the game is a new forward airfield with no OED bunkers and bomber hangars. This would let terrain designers place airfields near tank town for fighter defence without bringing bombers too near as well. Give it an "F" prefix so it would be obvious from the map. It could have a pierced steel runway and a temporary looking, largely tented infrastructure.

Would be cool... I would go as far as limiting the plane set to planes that hunt tanks or are part of the tank buster theme. JU87, yak, Hurri, and Il2 and eventually the HS129  :pray  but I would allow bombs as this was historically accurate. The Ju87G2 specifically would be fine by me and I think the gver's understand that it takes some skill to plink tank's and is not the same as being bomb****ed.

The Ju87G2 can take off within the runway space now at a vbase used by the spy plane and would be very useful to implement some air game to the Vbase. It would also be useful, since it fly's so slow, to give it the same views as the 156.

I just don't think it's right that they can play basically immune from the air game on your map or any map for that matter.

 :cheers: ,
 :salute

Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Tilt on November 24, 2013, 06:37:52 PM
I still miss the old Depots from AH1. That's why I include custom vBases with a few town buildings as a village in some of my AvA terrains .

What I'd like to see for the MA, is the addition of different types of vBases with a village, or a railyard, or a steelmill, etc., but with only two VHs to balance the added difficulty. They would behave exactly like the current vBase, but with the buildings (railcars etc) that would need to be destroyed before capture.

I too consider that depots were never implemented to their true potential before being dropped from MA terrains.

It always strikes me as odd that AH GV fields are located in the middle of open country side and AC fields are located adjacent to towns. Looking generally at theWWII European fronts  gv battles were fought to acquire logistic advantage which was often a town or bridge or depot etc. With this in mind I would like to see GV fields located at such places.  

Like Greebo I would like the small airfields based on temporary airstrips suited to lighter aircraft.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: WWhiskey on November 24, 2013, 06:46:48 PM
At one point it was talked about to put secondary strat targets back at the old strat locations,, I wish they would,, it would give bombers something else to hit, and others something else to do too.   The spawn points are still there,,, another idea would be a larger city at those locations to be captured/ defended!
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Bizman on November 25, 2013, 09:08:59 AM
Not sure what are you saying. It's a screenshot from WT.  :bolt:
WT? A game? Is that really supposed to picture a full size warbird on a dried grass field? Someone should've been using a lawnmower long ago in that case. Never thought a plane could land or up in grass taller than the cockpit. 
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: LCADolby on November 25, 2013, 10:05:14 AM
WT? A game? Is that really supposed to picture a full size warbird on a dried grass field? Someone should've been using a lawnmower long ago in that case. Never thought a plane could land or up in grass taller than the cockpit.  

Your eyes need testing
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Bizman on November 25, 2013, 10:19:30 AM
Your eyes need testing
I just had them tested. Aging is showing.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Slate on November 25, 2013, 10:29:50 AM
My jmpression of the WT screenshot was also of a toy airplane in a dry, grass field.
                 "A toy aeroplane runs around on the floor, a Model Aeroplane is something entirely different."


(http://i665.photobucket.com/albums/vv15/d0nwaters/flightofthephoenix_zpsa139615b.jpg) (http://s665.photobucket.com/user/d0nwaters/media/flightofthephoenix_zpsa139615b.jpg.html)
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Karnak on November 25, 2013, 10:54:09 AM
                "A toy aeroplane runs around on the floor, a Model Aeroplane is something entirely different."
Flight of the Phoenix.  Image was blocked at work, didn't even know it was there until I quoted.  I know the quote well.

It looks like a toy airplane though.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: bustr on November 25, 2013, 04:38:34 PM
The non-perk offerings at this point don't make playing to earn perks very meaningful as the carrot on the stick anymore. So motivating players out of late war rides visa perks has no 1:1 meaning. Possibly paying them in 262 would. But perks these days have run their time as a motivation mechanism.

As for many of the solutions to our game play problems being argued over. If our arenas were 2 sides and limited to 32 on a side along with having to wait in the ready room for the numbers to fill in. That waiting, or delayed gratification would create a value to finally being in the air and achieving something. Our model is three countries, large numbers in the hundreds, with no rules, and anything goes at all times with no waiting or delaying of gratification.

That is what makes Aces High a different breed from IL2 and WT. But, many of you want to force IL2 and WT game mechanisms into Aces High as the solution to all of our woes. If those were the solutions, Hitech would have relented years ago to your ideas. You see parts of those solutions in our structured play in the SEA Arena events. And the foundation of many of your ideas is structured organized play opposed to no rules anything goes play.

Aces High cannot survive if it's game play model looks like it's trying to be like IL2 or WT. It can if it's graphics start looking like them, because that will be more attractive to new customers. 
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: PFactorDave on November 25, 2013, 06:17:58 PM


Aces High cannot survive if it's game play model looks like it's trying to be like IL2 or WT. It can if it's graphics start looking like them, because that will be more attractive to new customers. 

Exactly.  But if HTC can bring the eye candy up to par with IL2 and WT, the hundreds of players in a persistent arena.  No waiting for matches to launch...  Those could be big selling points to draw new players into AH.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Tinkles on November 25, 2013, 06:39:04 PM
Exactly.  But if HTC can bring the eye candy up to par with IL2 and WT, the hundreds of players in a persistent arena.  No waiting for matches to launch...  Those could be big selling points to draw new players into AH.

Then they get slapped in the face with the learning curve  :lol


I think the graphics will be very nice, I am anxious to see the new terrain engine at it's full glory.   :aok
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: shoresroad on November 26, 2013, 02:13:48 AM
And how about switching to real maps of Europe, North Africa and the South Pacific to make Aces High more like a WWII flight combat simulator.  AH has a fantastic plane set and FM's but these Fantasy Island maps and chess piece enemy combatants really hurt immersion no matter how good the game looks.  The MA is like flying WWII planes at Disneyland for crying out loud.

What do we have...about 12 or 13 fantasy maps we rotate through.  How about 12 or 13 different regions of Europe, North Africa and the South Pacific instead.  And what about those guys called the Allies, Germans and Japanese.  I think they had something to do with WWII also.

I'm not suggesting changing game play except switching to two sides and creating real world WW2 maps with the new graphics engine.  How about instead of the great TWO SIDED tank battles and air battles at V85 we have great tank battles and air battles at Kursk.  The strats could be Berlin and London on a different map.  The argument that we can't use real WW2 locations because it wouldn't be politically correct is a stretch...WW2 ended 68 years ago!  Hitech has the planes for the best WW2 air combat simulator and we're flying them in fantasy worlds.  I just don't get it...never have.  Put the same plane set over Europe, North Africa and the South Pacific in the 1940's with the new graphics engine and they've got a game that can't be touched by the competition.  And taking a few liberties with base placement for balanced play on real world maps hurts immersion much less than playing on fantasy maps for the same purpose IMHO.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Easyscor on November 26, 2013, 02:34:42 AM

Water will be change to have full 3d wave effects.


Will there be a way to turn full 3d waves off for rivers?
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on November 26, 2013, 03:26:25 AM
Then they get slapped in the face with the learning curve  :lol


I think the graphics will be very nice, I am anxious to see the new terrain engine at it's full glory.   :aok

Offline practice with bots. This is how I got into WB.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Karnak on November 26, 2013, 08:00:12 AM
I'm not suggesting changing game play except switching to two sides and creating real world WW2 maps with the new graphics engine.  How about instead of the great TWO SIDED tank battles and air battles at V85 we have great tank battles and air battles at Kursk.  The strats could be Berlin and London on a different map.  The argument that we can't use real WW2 locations because it wouldn't be politically correct is a stretch...WW2 ended 68 years ago!  Hitech has the planes for the best WW2 air combat simulator and we're flying them in fantasy worlds.  I just don't get it...never have.  Put the same plane set over Europe, North Africa and the South Pacific in the 1940's with the new graphics engine and they've got a game that can't be touched by the competition.  And taking a few liberties with base placement for balanced play on real world maps hurts immersion much less than playing on fantasy maps for the same purpose IMHO.
That makes a good single player game, but a bad multiplayer game.  One side always has the numbers and there is not a third side to prompt combat.  Do three sides always work better, no, but they are better than two on average.  To do two sides you really need balanced teams as they do in sports. 
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: ImADot on November 26, 2013, 10:00:57 AM
The argument that we can't use real WW2 locations because it wouldn't be politically correct is a stretch...WW2 ended 68 years ago!

Who ever said we don't use real-world locations because it not politically correct?  :headscratch:

Real-world locations almost always dictate that any battle be two-sided. There has been plenty of discussion regarding the game being two-sided versus three-sided, and HTC decided that there shall be three sides for gameplay.

If we had real-world locations, I would assume we would only have aircraft available that flew in those areas. So what would the fans of Japanese aircraft do if a Kursk map was up? What would German fans do if a Solomons map was up? Would everyone flock to the Allied side and have very few on the Axis side on certain maps? Would that be good for gameplay?

The AvA uses two sided maps. Special events use real-world maps. Whether to go there or not is a choice for people to make. If you limited the main arena sandbox to certain geography and planes, you no longer give people a choice of what to fly, and many will just log off or quit the game altogether.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: bustr on November 26, 2013, 06:24:49 PM
Then they get slapped in the face with the learning curve  :lol


I think the graphics will be very nice, I am anxious to see the new terrain engine at it's full glory.   :aok

I have to think with all of the crumbs in the last year Hitech has been dropping that our game is about to change dramatically. With the AI being tested in the AvA, it's highly probable a 2 week newbie combat arena will be introduced with ongoing AI that they can up into along with shooting at each other. Along with bad tempered Mods looking to kick out vets posing as ankle biters.

With the physics model well matured over 13 years, we will see much better graphics. Look up Shader 3.0 and read the specs. From what I read, I'm hoping it means many of us will no longer have the FPS problems that have plagued players over the years. Including shadows will not be the high FPS hit for some that they are now.

One question: If our new waves will become 3D and large like I saw in a Shader 3.0 example. Does this mean landing in the water smashes our planes? Will we see breakers on shorelines now?.... :O
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: PFactorDave on November 26, 2013, 06:41:47 PM
I have to think with all of the crumbs in the last year Hitech has been dropping that our game is about to change dramatically. With the AI being tested in the AvA, it's highly probable a 2 week newbie combat arena will be introduced with ongoing AI that they can up into along with shooting at each other.

I would love to see some AI missions running in the MA.  Stuff happening all over the place all the time.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: XxDaSTaRxx on November 26, 2013, 07:36:34 PM
 :bhead If somebody doesn't cut down there trees at the end of the runways, I'll hire a lumberjack to do it. A few of my B-29 newbie flights were taken by those little buggers. I remember ranting (that's what I do best) about this in some country chat... the knights maybe? To which somebody replies "Why hire a lumberjack when you have a perfectly fine plane."... I'm sure some of the other newbies have had the same problem... I used to.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on November 27, 2013, 03:20:18 AM
I have to think with all of the crumbs in the last year Hitech has been dropping that our game is about to change dramatically. With the AI being tested in the AvA, it's highly probable a 2 week newbie combat arena will be introduced with ongoing AI that they can up into along with shooting at each other. Along with bad tempered Mods looking to kick out vets posing as ankle biters.

With the physics model well matured over 13 years, we will see much better graphics. Look up Shader 3.0 and read the specs. From what I read, I'm hoping it means many of us will no longer have the FPS problems that have plagued players over the years. Including shadows will not be the high FPS hit for some that they are now.

One question: If our new waves will become 3D and large like I saw in a Shader 3.0 example. Does this mean landing in the water smashes our planes? Will we see breakers on shorelines now?.... :O

This is the crazy part, by sticking to ancient spec AH can't make use of modern GPUs. D3D9 (which AH apparently doesn't even fully use at that) has a huge load of bottlenecks which have been fixed in latest incarnations.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: guncrasher on November 27, 2013, 03:27:45 AM
if you're 1:10 under dog when base take happens, award 100 perkies. Only dumb people would horde after that as balance would be more beneficial whatever way the base take would happen.

only dumb people would think that 100 guys wont jump at the chance to get 100 perks.  so now you have a horde of defenders whining that they didnt get the perks because too many upped to defend.


semp
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: guncrasher on November 27, 2013, 03:39:47 AM
1:10 under dog when base take happens, award 100 perkies.

-you are stupid, you killed the goon/m3 and cost us 100 perks.
-just landed 1000 perks!!!!!!  did you fight anybody?  naw man, i was at 30k following a horde taking bases.
-ah crap too many defending no way to get 100 perks going somewhere else.

so many possibility to get 100 perks by not defending or fighting.  if it sounds to good to be true, it is.


semp
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Tinkles on November 27, 2013, 03:51:15 AM
-you are stupid, you killed the goon/m3 and cost us 100 perks.
-just landed 1000 perks!!!!!!  did you fight anybody?  naw man, i was at 30k following a horde taking bases.
-ah crap too many defending no way to get 100 perks going somewhere else.

so many possibility to get 100 perks by not defending or fighting.  if it sounds to good to be true, it is.


semp

Oh, come on now. Don't need to bash the guy.

Sure, it might not work in this case, but at least he is trying to think of something to solve the problem.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: guncrasher on November 27, 2013, 04:00:49 AM
Oh, come on now. Don't need to bash the guy.

Sure, it might not work in this case, but at least he is trying to think of something to solve the problem.

but you see the problem is that some people think that some others dont fight they way they think the game should be played.  I am not saying either way is right but what i am saying is the point of the game is to have fun.  so if you arent having fun then you should step back a bit and think about what YOU can do to make it fun for YOU  without trying to force others to make it fun for YOU.


semp
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: ReVo on November 27, 2013, 04:46:12 AM
but you see the problem is that some people think that some others dont fight they way they think the game should be played.  I am not saying either way is right but what i am saying is the point of the game is to have fun.  so if you arent having fun then you should step back a bit and think about what YOU can do to make it fun for YOU  without trying to force others to make it fun for YOU.


semp

(http://www.getbullish.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/ostrich-head-in-sand.jpg)
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: guncrasher on November 27, 2013, 04:54:47 AM
(http://www.getbullish.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/ostrich-head-in-sand.jpg)


dude you dont have to complement me in every post I make.  you arent gonna be my midway are you?


semp
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on November 27, 2013, 08:38:44 AM

dude you dont have to complement me in every post I make.  you arent gonna be my midway are you?


semp

It seems you grow on people. People create a certain kind of fancy or affection...  :x
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: bustr on November 27, 2013, 05:54:06 PM
This is the crazy part, by sticking to ancient spec AH can't make use of modern GPUs. D3D9 (which AH apparently doesn't even fully use at that) has a huge load of bottlenecks which have been fixed in latest incarnations.

Do you actually know how Hitech will implement DX shader technology?

Or have you decided you are permanently PO'd at Hitech and want to pollute as many players feelings about this game as you can to make yourself feel better? Destroying is easier and instantly gratuitous opposed to building. One of this forum's greatest failings is the numbers of posters addicted to the universe of shades destruction comes in. But, it sure do feel good and costs you nothing. Kind of like being an atheist bus driver trying to make his school bus full of sunday schoolers cry before they get to the petting zoo full of lambs.

I doubt any of our audience knows the answer to the first question including yourself.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Vraciu on November 27, 2013, 05:59:51 PM
Oh, come on now. Don't need to bash the guy.

Sure, it might not work in this case, but at least he is trying to think of something to solve the problem.

Bashing seems to be par around here. Thank gawd there are a few who set the egos aside and try to patiently help. I appreciate their efforts.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Gemini on November 27, 2013, 06:04:20 PM
Saw the new videos on the Facebook page. Looks like a big improvement.

Only about a decade behind the curve now...
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Arlo on November 27, 2013, 07:29:07 PM
Bashing seems to be par around here.

(http://www.tyjuana-wilson.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/poorthing.jpg)
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Karnak on November 27, 2013, 07:35:10 PM
Saw the new videos on the Facebook page. Looks like a big improvement.

Only about a decade behind the curve now...
You don't remember the graphics from 2003 obviously.

Additionally, that was a preview of a work in progress on a mesh that doesn't take advantage of the higher mesh resolution.

Snide, false statements don't help.  It certainly doesn't look like a 2013 first person shooter, but if you expect it to you will always be disappointed.

Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: XxDaSTaRxx on November 27, 2013, 09:40:11 PM
Will this mean I have to download HiRes Textures? Will the new terrain even have a HiRes pack?  :headscratch:
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: guncrasher on November 28, 2013, 02:21:33 AM
Will this mean I have to download HiRes Textures? Will the new terrain even have a HiRes pack?  :headscratch:

anybody got a face palm picture?


semp
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on November 28, 2013, 03:35:27 AM
Do you actually know how Hitech will implement DX shader technology?

Or have you decided you are permanently PO'd at Hitech and want to pollute as many players feelings about this game as you can to make yourself feel better? Destroying is easier and instantly gratuitous opposed to building. One of this forum's greatest failings is the numbers of posters addicted to the universe of shades destruction comes in. But, it sure do feel good and costs you nothing. Kind of like being an atheist bus driver trying to make his school bus full of sunday schoolers cry before they get to the petting zoo full of lambs.

I doubt any of our audience knows the answer to the first question including yourself.

Hitech just announced that they're going to implement more Dx9 functionality which was previously unsupported to keep hardware specs on low levels, this means that they're not going to take advantage of new technology. It doesn't take much reasoning to deduct that from the crumbs of information we get.

If you think that me looking things realistically and stating things exactly as they are is somehow polluting or destroying you need to get your head checked buddy. If you look that the cup is half full you'll think 'oh great we'll get SM3 support and better use of hardware'. If your cup is half empty you'll think 'oh still no use for the past decade of development in DX'. Denial is much unhealthier than that.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Arlo on November 28, 2013, 07:47:28 AM
to keep hardware specs on low levels

I understand you don't get that HTC isn't selling computers.  ;)
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on November 28, 2013, 08:07:06 AM
I understand you don't get that HTC isn't selling computers.  ;)

They sell software and if hardware requirements are kept at 15 year old levels just because a small portion of customers still use literally ancient hardware, it may be a bad business decision if it means that it makes the game unattractive for new customers.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: The Fugitive on November 28, 2013, 08:51:09 AM
They sell software and if hardware requirements are kept at 15 year old levels just because a small portion of customers still use literally ancient hardware, it may be a bad business decision if it means that it makes the game unattractive for new customers.

No they give the software away and rent out an environment for players to get together and play. The software they give away is structured to be used by as many players/systems as possible to allow the widest range of playablity for the largest subscription base they can get.

If you don't like the software you more than able to move on.... and many have unfortunately. However being a "nitch" game it already has a small following. Should they build the game around the top end rigs and cut out such a large portion of this small group?
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on November 28, 2013, 09:06:33 AM
No they give the software away and rent out an environment for players to get together and play. The software they give away is structured to be used by as many players/systems as possible to allow the widest range of playablity for the largest subscription base they can get.

If you don't like the software you more than able to move on.... and many have unfortunately. However being a "nitch" game it already has a small following. Should they build the game around the top end rigs and cut out such a large portion of this small group?

They don't give any software 'away' to anyone. They sell a service which is based on the piece of code called AH. Most busineses need to keep growing in order to survive. If design decisions are made that keep the company from growing, it's a path of diminishing returns. I can't see how it would be beneficial to them to throttle development just because a portion of existing users are too poor or cheap to upgrade their hardware to this millenium. The only logical reason for doing that is that they believe there is no market and through that no new potential customers. In that case it makes sense to ensure that existing users do not have to quit if they can't upgrade their hardware.

But if that's the case then HTC is in big trouble.

We all saw what happened to WB when they couldn't step up to the competition AH gave it. If they would have upgraded their product before most of the player base had left, they would probably be profitable today. Once your service loses its users your biggest asset is gone and it will be incredibly hard to get them back if the arena gets more or less empty. In my opinion what HTC should do is to implement a strategy that will regain a healthy player base basically at any cost because the online community is the reason AH is AH, not the game itself.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Sunka on November 28, 2013, 09:10:47 AM
They don't give any software 'away' to anyone. They sell a service which is based on the piece of code called AH. Most busineses need to keep growing in order to survive. If design decisions are made that keep the company from growing, it's a path of diminishing returns. I can't see how it would be beneficial to them to throttle development just because a portion of existing users are too poor or cheap to upgrade their hardware to this millenium. The only logical reason for doing that is that they believe there is no market and through that no new potential customers. In that case it makes sense to ensure that existing users do not have to quit if they can't upgrade their hardware.

But if that's the case then HTC is in big trouble.
I fear just this.For a long long time HTC takes the safe road ,afraid of  to big of any kind of change.And numbers keep shrinking.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on November 28, 2013, 09:16:42 AM
I fear just this.For a long long time HTC takes the safe road ,afraid of  to big of any kind of change.And numbers keep shrinking.

I hope HTC can find a boost either from the new graphics improvements, marketing or dropping the subscription price for example. They have more longevity through having 1000 players paying 7 dollars / month than with 500 players $14.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Sunka on November 28, 2013, 09:23:54 AM
I hope HTC can find a boost either from the new graphics improvements, marketing or dropping the subscription price for example. They have more longevity through having 1000 players paying 7 dollars / month than with 500 players $14.
I would say i think 15 is more then fair....I would but at the end of this sub im canceling my account do to needing to tighten my belt,i can afford 7 $ for hulu but 15 is a bit much for AH.And though i like that there is a GFX update,i think more changes are needed to save this game.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on November 28, 2013, 09:28:34 AM
I would say i think 15 is more then fair....I would but at the end of this sub im canceling my account do to needing to tighten my belt,i can afford 7 $ for hulu but 15 is a bit much for AH.And though i like that there is a GFX update,i think more changes are needed to save this game.

Perhaps. But F2P business model has proved to be extremely successful for other games. It's about going past the critical mass of users when a trickle of income becomes a gushing river. A large user base also makes your business extremely valuable typically, especially if there's even a marginal hope of turning that user base into revenue through ads or something.

But perhaps AH:s biggest problem is that old gits like us are getting too busy with their real lives and the young generation is too adhd to travel 10 minutes to the next battle.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Changeup on November 28, 2013, 09:29:26 AM
I think the game should just die...plain and simple.  Pull the plug and do a KingsX...


That way all the stud pilots can't fly for a year or two and when it comes back, they'll suck.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: The Fugitive on November 28, 2013, 09:35:39 AM
They don't give any software 'away' to anyone. They sell a service which is based on the piece of code called AH. Most busineses need to keep growing in order to survive. If design decisions are made that keep the company from growing, it's a path of diminishing returns. I can't see how it would be beneficial to them to throttle development just because a portion of existing users are too poor or cheap to upgrade their hardware to this millenium. The only logical reason for doing that is that they believe there is no market and through that no new potential customers. In that case it makes sense to ensure that existing users do not have to quit if they can't upgrade their hardware.

But if that's the case then HTC is in big trouble.

hmmmm..... lets see, I can download the software, install it on as many computers as I want and use it as often as I want and it doesn't cost me a dime..... I don't know about you, but that certainly falls under my definition of "free", so ya they give away the software.

As for "growing", it depends on what you consider "growing". They have added many new toys to the playground, some would call that "growing". They have upgraded and moved to newer better servers to keep the service available to as many people that wish to join, some may call that "growing".

You being a tech guy seem to be hung up on the need to advance technology wise. At this point many would say "why?". The game works, is playable, and fun....or their wouldn't be anyone here paying to play in the big sandbox that HTC is renting out. So why does it NEED to be updated? For a small game company that has hung around in such a competitive field with such a diverse amount of competition vying for peoples "gaming dollar" for over a dozen years I think they may have a handle on how to run the company.

Yes the numbers are down, and game play at this time is a bit on the crappy side, but I don't think any of it is due to poor technology used to run the game. I'm sure we don't know half of what is going on behind the scenes at HTC. Maybe they have been working on this new move to the 3.0 shaders since WT was rumored to be coming out? Maybe they had the new terrain elements in the works since IL2 was picked up by that new company?   Who knows? A small company takes longer to get things done as far as all those technology leaps your looking for. They have established a solid base with good coad to keep the game running along smoothly. Extras are always good, but needed to keep up? Not necessarily.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Sunka on November 28, 2013, 09:39:47 AM
I think the game should just die...plain and simple.  Pull the plug and do a KingsX...


That way all the stud pilots can't fly for a year or two and when it comes back, they'll suck.
I love it!
Its brilliant! Make ones self better from all other getting worse! :banana:
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Sunka on November 28, 2013, 09:41:57 AM
Perhaps. But F2P business model has proved to be extremely successful for other games
It is a fact i wont be quitting the f2p games i play, and i wont be affording AH soon.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on November 28, 2013, 09:46:03 AM
hmmmm..... lets see, I can download the software, install it on as many computers as I want and use it as often as I want and it doesn't cost me a dime..... I don't know about you, but that certainly falls under my definition of "free", so ya they give away the software.

Umm.. no. You have a right to use the software which is owned by HTC - offline. You do not get to use the services and at no point you own a single bit of the code. They do not give you away anything.

Quote
As for "growing", it depends on what you consider "growing". They have added many new toys to the playground, some would call that "growing". They have upgraded and moved to newer better servers to keep the service available to as many people that wish to join, some may call that "growing".

Growing means having a growing customer base and growing revenue. This is the only thing that matters. You're talking about investments not growing.

Quote
You being a tech guy seem to be hung up on the need to advance technology wise. At this point many would say "why?". The game works, is playable, and fun....or their wouldn't be anyone here paying to play in the big sandbox that HTC is renting out. So why does it NEED to be updated? For a small game company that has hung around in such a competitive field with such a diverse amount of competition vying for peoples "gaming dollar" for over a dozen years I think they may have a handle on how to run the company.

Simply because let's face it, AH does look a decade dated compared to the new F2P rivals. And since they prosper at the expense of AH you must consider the grim chance that a change of some sort might be needed to steal some of their glory. I have no idea if fancy graphics would change anything, maybe there is a deeper problem in gameplay. I know for sure that MA is an unforgiving place for any noob or even rarely playing vet. This is partly why I've been suggesting to try and change the game in a way that would make the late war super planes attractive only to noobs. The noobs die even in Tempests, but they probably die a bit less than in a non perkie. Dying less on your 2 weeks -> more chances of subscribing.

Quote
Yes the numbers are down, and game play at this time is a bit on the crappy side, but I don't think any of it is due to poor technology used to run the game. I'm sure we don't know half of what is going on behind the scenes at HTC. Maybe they have been working on this new move to the 3.0 shaders since WT was rumored to be coming out? Maybe they had the new terrain elements in the works since IL2 was picked up by that new company?   Who knows? A small company takes longer to get things done as far as all those technology leaps your looking for. They have established a solid base with good coad to keep the game running along smoothly. Extras are always good, but needed to keep up? Not necessarily.

Dunno. I love AH but I have simply no time to invest to it anymore. I paid my sub for years without playing much at all - but when my CC changed I just couldn't see the point in resubbing anymore.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Changeup on November 28, 2013, 09:50:04 AM
I love it!
Its brilliant! Make ones self better from all other getting worse! :banana:

It's excellent and it only requires that I continue to post backseat improvement ideas to the BBS to make me look like I'm contributing and staying involved!!!!
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Sunka on November 28, 2013, 09:51:46 AM
I continue to post backseat improvement ideas
The backseat is the safest place to sit. :aok
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Vraciu on November 28, 2013, 09:55:28 AM
MrRipley makes good points.

My question is this: How is it that F2P games thrive and make money?  Ads? 
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on November 28, 2013, 09:56:59 AM
MrRipley makes good points.

My question is this: How is it that F2P games thrive and make money?  Ads? 

Micro transactions. You pay a dime here dollar there, to get a better plane, better cannon ammo etc. If you have a lot of users it turns up as big bucks.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Sunka on November 28, 2013, 09:59:41 AM
Micro transactions. You pay a dime here dollar there, to get a better plane, better cannon ammo etc. If you have a lot of users it turns up as big bucks.
Which AH "traditionalist" will tell you is lame and gamey i think.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: The Fugitive on November 28, 2013, 10:00:42 AM
Umm.. no. You have a right to use the software which is owned by HTC - offline. You do not get to use the services and at no point you own a single bit of the code. They do not give you away anything.

That sounds very much like the software you buy like office or windows, or any game on steam.... except I didn't pay anything ..... free.... for this one.

Quote
Growing means having a growing customer base and growing revenue. This is the only thing that matters. You're talking about investments not growing.


Again, this is YOUR idea of growth, not every ones.

Quote
Simply because let's face it, AH does look a decade dated compared to the new F2P rivals. And since they prosper at the expense of AH you must consider the grim chance that a change of some sort might be needed to steal some of their glory. I have no idea if fancy graphics would change anything, maybe there is a deeper problem in gameplay. I know for sure that MA is an unforgiving place for any noob or even rarely playing vet. This is partly why I've been suggesting to try and change the game in a way that would make the late war super planes attractive only to noobs. The noobs die even in Tempests, but they probably die a bit less than in a non perkie. Dying less on your 2 weeks -> more chances of subscribing.

Dunno. I love AH but I have simply no time to invest to it anymore. I paid my sub for years without playing much at all - but when my CC changed I just couldn't see the point in resubbing anymore.

(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii253/maddogjoe_photos/clouds_zpsee1077b3.jpg) (http://s266.photobucket.com/user/maddogjoe_photos/media/clouds_zpsee1077b3.jpg.html)

Looks pretty dang good to me! I don't play those "other games" because they just don't have what this one does. I don't bother comparing those to this one because it is irrelevant, I play this one. I too have been paying HTC for over 11 years for the use of their playground. I too am bother by the poor gameplay in the main arena, but unlike you I still find that one or two great fight a week that keeps me coming back.

It sounds to me like your looking for, or need a reason to come back. Graphics isn't going to do it. Like people like SUNKA have found coming back to the same crappy play that turned you off when you took your break just makes you want to quit again. If you can't find a reason to enjoy the game now graphics/new technology isn't going to help.

MrRipley makes good points.

My question is this: How is it that F2P games thrive and make money?  Ads?  

Stupidity   :devil

It is much easier to "buy" your skill than it is to "work" for it. Todays "gamers" look for short cuts because they haven't the time to put in to learn/train to get ahead. 
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on November 28, 2013, 10:01:29 AM
Which AH "traditionalist" will tell you is lame and gamey i think.

I agree. It is. But it's profitable. If AH would have a F2p arena with micro transactions and a subscription hardcore MA perhaps it would be best of both worlds.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on November 28, 2013, 10:04:57 AM
That sounds very much like the software you buy like office or windows, or any game on steam.... except I didn't pay anything ..... free.... for this one.

I suggest you re-read the EULA and then come back lol. Or if HTC really gives away the source code I'm interested.

Quote
Again, this is YOUR idea of growth, not every ones.

Yep, not yours obviously. But for the rest of the planet... An investment is not growth. It's an act that enables growth usually but if it never turns into one then it's just a loss.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: 68ZooM on November 28, 2013, 10:05:42 AM
MrRipley makes good points.

My question is this: How is it that F2P games thrive and make money?  Ads? 
They make alot of coin off the premium items be it tanks or planes ( depending on the F2P Game) theres always those players that must have the strongest and best items of such F2P games. F2P Games bank on a certian percentage of the player base that will buy the premium items.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Sunka on November 28, 2013, 10:06:33 AM
I agree. It is. But it's profitable. If AH would have a F2p arena with micro transactions and a subscription hardcore MA perhaps it would be best of both worlds.
O for sure,its working for the kids these days.
I want Aces High to be here 15 years from now,so i do try and not looking at it from my point of few, but the masses.
And i see many many good ideas on how to make the game important and profitable for a long time.
But one needs a "set", to pull the trigger and risk what is comfortable,and that can be hard.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: The Fugitive on November 28, 2013, 10:17:09 AM
I suggest you re-read the EULA and then come back lol. Or if HTC really gives away the source code I'm interested.

Yep, not yours obviously. But for the rest of the planet... An investment is not growth. It's an act that enables growth usually but if it never turns into one then it's just a loss.


Nobody said anything about the source code. Much like every other software you BUY you are allowed to use it but not allowed to edit it or distribute it. AH software is the same but you don't have to BUY it....hence free.

I also never said what my definition of growth is either. I wouldn't presume to tell anyone what HTC's definition of growth is either. I just suggested what some peoples idea of growth may be. The point is "technology" doesn't seem to be the issue with the game right now.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Vraciu on November 28, 2013, 10:23:04 AM
Micro transactions. You pay a dime here dollar there, to get a better plane, better cannon ammo etc. If you have a lot of users it turns up as big bucks.

I don't pay anything on PSN to kill zombies with other players.  Why isn't that a viable option for HTC?
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Arlo on November 28, 2013, 11:15:21 AM
They sell software and if hardware requirements are kept at 15 year old levels just because a small portion of customers still use literally ancient hardware, it may be a bad business decision if it means that it makes the game unattractive for new customers.

Because exaggeration makes one's argument better.  What business school are you a grad of?

Let's talk budget and return.  :aok
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Arlo on November 28, 2013, 11:16:42 AM
No they give the software away and rent out an environment for players to get together and play. The software they give away is structured to be used by as many players/systems as possible to allow the widest range of playablity for the largest subscription base they can get.

Rip, you get it?  :D
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Arlo on November 28, 2013, 11:18:23 AM
But if that's the case then HTC is in big trouble.

Well, Mr. Sunshine. Doom and gloom if it's not your way is fun to read and all
but don't let that stand in the way of me not taking you seriously.  :aok
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Arlo on November 28, 2013, 11:19:56 AM
Dunno. I love AH but I have simply no time to invest to it anymore.

That's a Rip decision not an AH failure.  :)
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: XxDaSTaRxx on November 28, 2013, 12:05:45 PM
anybody got a face palm picture?


semp
(http://www.taylorclark.co/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/picard.jpg)
There you go   :D

Or, if you feel you need to be a bigger arse about it

(http://www.reactionface.info/sites/default/files/imagecache/Node_Page/images/1314029819767.png)
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: wiskyfog on November 28, 2013, 12:13:20 PM
Are the titanium and carbon fiber indestructable bushes still turning over 40 ton tanks?
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Karnak on November 28, 2013, 12:13:58 PM
They sell software and if hardware requirements are kept at 15 year old levels just because a small portion of customers still use literally ancient hardware, it may be a bad business decision if it means that it makes the game unattractive for new customers.
:rofl 15 years.  :rofl

15 years ago 3D accelerators were in their first generation.  The most popular was the add in board 3DFX, which came, IIRC, with 4mb of video memory.  Have fun trying to run AH on that.

When EverQuest was released in 1999 it required a 3D accelerator, the first major game to do so, and it was seen as a hugely risky move on Verrant/SOE's part to require that.  EQ's graphics compared to live AH are terrible.  The detail shown in that preview is better than World of Warcraft's 2004 release graphics and has higher texture resolutions than anything in WoW did until the end of the Wrath of the Lich King expansion when Blizzard boosted the resolution on player armor sets.  Of course a fantasy MMO like EQ or WoW only needs to display a few hundred yards of terrain at a time whereas a flight sim has to display miles of it, and the more miles it displays at once the better it feels.

In the end AH's (nor IL-2: Battle of Stalingrad's, nor War Thunder's) graphics are ever going to match a concurrent first person shooter's graphics or a third person MMO's detail level.  They can't and still provide usable view distances and frame rates.  The plane, and tank, graphics are the only places they are likely to compete as those are seen up close.  AH's plane graphics range from good on the newer units to terrible on the B-26B which dates from v1.00 released in 2000.  HTC is obviously not unaware of this as the newer units are obviously built of more polygons.  HiTech recently mentioned how many they use, but I don't recall the number, but it has gone ever up through the years.  Compare the B-26 from AH v1.00 with the A-20G from the end period of AH1 with the Ki-84 of AH v2.00 with the Mosquito Mk VI from 2010 with something recent like the Yak-3.  There are clear improvements at every step.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Vraciu on November 28, 2013, 01:06:15 PM
:rofl 15 years.  :rofl

15 years ago 3D accelerators were in their first generation.  The most popular was the add in board 3DFX, which came, IIRC, with 4mb of video memory.  Have fun trying to run AH on that.

When EverQuest was released in 1999 it required a 3D accelerator, the first major game to do so, and it was seen as a hugely risky move on Verrant/SOE's part to require that.  EQ's graphics compared to live AH are terrible.  The detail shown in that preview is better than World of Warcraft's 2004 release graphics and has higher texture resolutions than anything in WoW did until the end of the Wrath of the Lich King expansion when Blizzard boosted the resolution on player armor sets.  Of course a fantasy MMO like EQ or WoW only needs to display a few hundred yards of terrain at a time whereas a flight sim has to display miles of it, and the more miles it displays at once the better it feels.

In the end AH's (nor IL-2: Battle of Stalingrad's, nor War Thunder's) graphics are ever going to match a concurrent first person shooter's graphics or a third person MMO's detail level.  They can't and still provide usable view distances and frame rates.  The plane, and tank, graphics are the only places they are likely to compete as those are seen up close.  AH's plane graphics range from good on the newer units to terrible on the B-26B which dates from v1.00 released in 2000.  HTC is obviously not unaware of this as the newer units are obviously built of more polygons.  HiTech recently mentioned how many they use, but I don't recall the number, but it has gone ever up through the years.  Compare the B-26 from AH v1.00 with the A-20G from the end period of AH1 with the Ki-84 of AH v2.00 with the Mosquito Mk VI from 2010 with something recent like the Yak-3.  There are clear improvements at every step.

Never say never.  Gates said nobody would ever need more than 256kb of RAM.    Well, if you run Linux that may be true, but we all know that tech moves faster than the imagination of even Star Trekkers. 
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: kvuo75 on November 28, 2013, 01:11:04 PM
I don't pay anything on PSN to kill zombies with other players.  Why isn't that a viable option for HTC?


I don't know of any console game that I've played for almost 20 years.


Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Vraciu on November 28, 2013, 01:25:38 PM

I don't know of any console game that I've played for almost 20 years.




I do. Herzog Zwei. 

Since 1990.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: SirNuke on November 28, 2013, 01:45:28 PM

I don't know of any console game that I've played for almost 20 years.




loads of people are still playing street fighter 2 EX
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on November 29, 2013, 01:36:48 AM
Nobody said anything about the source code. Much like every other software you BUY you are allowed to use it but not allowed to edit it or distribute it. AH software is the same but you don't have to BUY it....hence free.

You continue to fail to see the point. AH as a product is an online game. The client is all but useless for anyone without the online part. So they're not giving anything for free. People can download and use the client for free, sure. But it's not a functional product all by itself. In software world 'giving away' means allowing users to use and redistribute a functional piece of software or even access its source code. Allowing users to download a client for a web service is not considered as giving anything away for free :)

Also when you BUY software, you BUY the source code. You do not BUY any other software, you pay for the limited or unlimited right to use. In fact when you think you're BUYING a cd record from the shop you don't even get to own the media in reality.

Quote
I also never said what my definition of growth is either. I wouldn't presume to tell anyone what HTC's definition of growth is either. I just suggested what some peoples idea of growth may be. The point is "technology" doesn't seem to be the issue with the game right now.

I would suggest you to stop and study the definition of growth. Investing is not growth, in fact quite the opposite if it doesn't produce positive returns.

Let's say a company makes now 1000 bucks a month. They invest to a fancy new server which costs 7000 bucks. If they still continue to get only 1000 bucks a month they've basically just lost 7000 bucks which is negative growth due to hardware depreciation.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: zack1234 on November 29, 2013, 01:52:43 AM
He is right :old:

In ROF if you discussed how 777 studios should run its affairs at best you just ignored  :)
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: guncrasher on November 29, 2013, 04:14:04 AM
mrripley give it up dude, everybody can see that fugitive is right.



semp
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on November 29, 2013, 05:21:36 AM
mrripley give it up dude, everybody can see that fugitive is right.



semp

 :rofl
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on November 29, 2013, 05:31:44 AM
:rofl 15 years.  :rofl

Ok, perhaps not 15 years but DirectX9 was released in 2002 and AH reportedly now uses a PART of its features at 2014. So 15 years is not that far off as far as Dx support goes.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Greebo on November 29, 2013, 05:53:55 AM
The key thing as far as HTC are concerned is to get the maximum improvement for the minimum loss of existing customers. HT has said less than 20 existing users of the game will be affected by the change to Shader 3.0 and judging by what we've seen and read so far, many players will be getting a major improvement to the look of the game.

I bet lot more players than 20 would be lost to the game if they went beyond DirectX 9 and effectively obsoleted any PC running Windows XP. Would you get as many more customers to replace those lost with whatever extra eye candy you could add? Somehow I doubt it.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on November 29, 2013, 06:12:58 AM
The key thing as far as HTC are concerned is to get the maximum improvement for the minimum loss of existing customers. HT has said less than 20 existing users of the game will be affected by the change to Shader 3.0 and judging by what we've seen and read so far, many players will be getting a major improvement to the look of the game.

I bet lot more players than 20 would be lost to the game if they went beyond DirectX 9 and effectively obsoleted any PC running Windows XP. Would you get as many more customers to replace those lost with whatever extra eye candy you could add? Somehow I doubt it.

Only HTC knows the statistics of XP users. Given that all sort of support for XP is either ending or dropped, supporting it is a dead end regardless of the fact. Put it this way: With new technology you have the potential for a lot of customers. With old technology your potential is growing smaller every day but you get to keep the few old customers which probably use antiquated hardware if they still run XP. It's like knowing you're going to break up with your old girlfriend eventually but refuse to start dating again. No win situation.

Our company is in a similar situation at the moment. We have a lot of existing clients who use the old engine which allows them to run local databases. But that technology is a dead end so we're simply forcing our users either to update to our cloud services or find some other provider instead. Since there is no alternative for them they either return to manual job, find a competing product (which we know will be a decade backwards for them) or upgrade. We're going to lose some customers over this for sure - but not doing this would have killed our business in the long run.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Skuzzy on November 29, 2013, 06:43:42 AM
Marketing.  You have to love it.  There is not a 3D graphic feature available in DX11, which cannot be done in DX9.

In the meantime, this thread has wandered a long way from its intended path.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Nathan60 on November 29, 2013, 07:14:43 AM
Marketing.  You have to love it.  There is not a 3D graphic feature available in DX11, which cannot be done in DX9.

In the meantime, this thread has wandered a long way from its intended path.
This surprises you? I rarely see a thread that doesn't go wonky at somepoint, thisone isn't too bad
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: BERN1 on November 29, 2013, 07:15:22 AM
Are we going to get something like this (http://imageshack.us/a/img10/5929/497z.jpg)
with new terrain engine?
warblunder...lol small lil bitty rooms with bad flight models and intense graphics :banana:
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on November 29, 2013, 07:53:56 AM
Marketing.  You have to love it.  There is not a 3D graphic feature available in DX11, which cannot be done in DX9.

In the meantime, this thread has wandered a long way from its intended path.

But as far as I understood the new DX versions enable you to do the same things with less bottlenecks and higher efficiency. DX11 is supposed to enable easyer and more efficient multicore use for example.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Karnak on November 29, 2013, 08:45:06 AM
There are a lot of us WinXP users still around, fyi.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Sunka on November 29, 2013, 08:52:43 AM
Marketing.  You have to love it.  There is not a 3D graphic feature available in DX11, which cannot be done in DX9.

In the meantime, this thread has wandered a long way from its intended path.
:lol But a lot that needed to be said.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: The Fugitive on November 29, 2013, 09:03:23 AM
You continue to fail to see the point. AH as a product is an online game. The client is all but useless for anyone without the online part. So they're not giving anything for free. People can download and use the client for free, sure. But it's not a functional product all by itself. In software world 'giving away' means allowing users to use and redistribute a functional piece of software or even access its source code. Allowing users to download a client for a web service is not considered as giving anything away for free :)

Also when you BUY software, you BUY the source code. You do not BUY any other software, you pay for the limited or unlimited right to use. In fact when you think you're BUYING a cd record from the shop you don't even get to own the media in reality.

I would suggest you to stop and study the definition of growth. Investing is not growth, in fact quite the opposite if it doesn't produce positive returns.

Let's say a company makes now 1000 bucks a month. They invest to a fancy new server which costs 7000 bucks. If they still continue to get only 1000 bucks a month they've basically just lost 7000 bucks which is negative growth due to hardware depreciation.

WOW!!! Twist-o-logic is on full power today!

If you can download the software for free, install it for free, download missions for free, and play those mission any time you want for free, it is FREE. There are a number of people on these boards doing just that.... which is a step up on you who doesn't even play any longer.

Again I didn't say I didn't agree with you about the growth. However YOUR opinion with what is growth for HTC may not be what HTC's opinion of what is growth. Thats all I'm saying. If it was my company there would be more techs working the coad to bring more technology into the game as well as changes in how things work in the game to bring about changes in game play. There would be a lot more advertising in magazines, on the web, and yes tv. I would have a team whose job it would be to bring in subscriptions, period.

But I don't run HTC, and neither do you. All we can do is suggest here on the boards or in an email to HTC and hope they read what we write. You on the other hand, with your blinders on tight come in here demanding, or barking about how bad HTC does things and then EXPECT them to bow down to your words of wisdom. Whos the fool?  
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Changeup on November 29, 2013, 09:22:20 AM
I see dead people...
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Greebo on November 29, 2013, 09:27:21 AM
Wiki says 31.8% of PCs still run XP. So going to DX 11 would remove almost a third of current PC owners as potential customers while offering only the potential benefit of slightly better framerates for high end users. Does not seem like a good business move for HTC to me, at least not for years yet.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Vraciu on November 29, 2013, 10:54:28 AM
The key thing as far as HTC are concerned is to get the maximum improvement for the minimum loss of existing customers. HT has said less than 20 existing users of the game will be affected by the change to Shader 3.0 and judging by what we've seen and read so far, many players will be getting a major improvement to the look of the game.

I bet lot more players than 20 would be lost to the game if they went beyond DirectX 9 and effectively obsoleted any PC running Windows XP. Would you get as many more customers to replace those lost with whatever extra eye candy you could add? Somehow I doubt it.

Good point except XP will lose support in the spring of 2014.   I have moved my XP machines except one to Linux Mint dual boot, using XP only for the things Mint will not run.  I imagine a dramatic falloff in XP usage when it goes obsolete.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Vraciu on November 29, 2013, 10:55:24 AM
Wiki says 31.8% of PCs still run XP. So going to DX 11 would remove almost a third of current PC owners as potential customers while offering only the potential benefit of slightly better framerates for high end users. Does not seem like a good business move for HTC to me, at least not for years yet.

XP won't persist long beyond next spring I am afraid...
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Vraciu on November 29, 2013, 10:56:40 AM
There are a lot of us WinXP users still around, fyi.

Not for long sadly.  A year at most...

Many will go to Win7 or Linux.  Mint is awesome.  Wish AH would run on it (it might but I haven't tried it through the emulator).
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Sunka on November 29, 2013, 11:08:50 AM
XP won't persist long beyond next spring I am afraid...
XP is all that will run my stick..the only stick i will use,no XP no AH for me.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Vraciu on November 29, 2013, 11:15:13 AM
XP is all that will run my stick..the only stick i will use,no XP no AH for me.

What stick do you have?

Have you looked into Linux at all?  If AH ran on Mint I would ditch XP and 7 in a heartbeat.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Bizman on November 29, 2013, 11:17:38 AM
There should be no problem as long as AH can be run on XP.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Sunka on November 29, 2013, 11:27:05 AM
What stick do you have?

Have you looked into Linux at all?  If AH ran on Mint I would ditch XP and 7 in a heartbeat.
Microsoft Sidewinder ,i have not tried linux,just windows ,and none of the force feedback work correctly. :joystick:
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Vraciu on November 29, 2013, 11:42:57 AM
Microsoft Sidewinder ,i have not tried linux,just windows ,and none of the force feedback work correctly. :joystick:

I have two Sidewinders, one FF one not.  The non-FF works great in Win7 but I can't use any of the MS software for mapping which kinda sux.

I guess my FF stick is gonna be junk then.  :(

What a bummer that MS stopped support.  It is a decent stick.  Add their dropping support to the reasons I will soon be Linux-only...   AH is the only reason I even use Windows.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on November 29, 2013, 11:43:43 AM
Wiki says 31.8% of PCs still run XP. So going to DX 11 would remove almost a third of current PC owners as potential customers while offering only the potential benefit of slightly better framerates for high end users. Does not seem like a good business move for HTC to me, at least not for years yet.

About 1% of gamers probably still run XP. Gamers can't afford to have ancient hardware.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on November 29, 2013, 11:45:39 AM
WOW!!! Twist-o-logic is on full power today!

If you can download the software for free, install it for free, download missions for free, and play those mission any time you want for free, it is FREE. There are a number of people on these boards doing just that.... which is a step up on you who doesn't even play any longer.

Again I didn't say I didn't agree with you about the growth. However YOUR opinion with what is growth for HTC may not be what HTC's opinion of what is growth. Thats all I'm saying. If it was my company there would be more techs working the coad to bring more technology into the game as well as changes in how things work in the game to bring about changes in game play. There would be a lot more advertising in magazines, on the web, and yes tv. I would have a team whose job it would be to bring in subscriptions, period.

But I don't run HTC, and neither do you. All we can do is suggest here on the boards or in an email to HTC and hope they read what we write. You on the other hand, with your blinders on tight come in here demanding, or barking about how bad HTC does things and then EXPECT them to bow down to your words of wisdom. Whos the fool?  

Forum rule nr 1: Don't argue with fanbois  :lol
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Megalodon on November 29, 2013, 12:02:35 PM
Good point except XP will lose support in the spring of 2014.   I have moved my XP machines except one to Linux Mint dual boot, using XP only for the things Mint will not run.  I imagine a dramatic falloff in XP usage when it goes obsolete.

About 1% of gamers probably still run XP. Gamers can't afford to have ancient hardware.

 Huh......... I ran win 2k untill about a month ago,  it was still working fine and still receiving security updates. I changed operating systems so I could try the new games BOS an WT. So unless HT really goes ALL IN... this computer will still be fine for me. I put it together in 2004. I will not be building a new computer untill HT forces me to do so..


 :cheers:
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Vraciu on November 29, 2013, 12:10:15 PM
Huh......... I ran win 2k untill about a month ago,  it was still working fine and still receiving security updates. I changed operating systems so I could try the new games BOS an WT. So unless HT really goes ALL IN... this computer will still be fine for me. I put it together in 2004. I will not be building a new computer untill HT forces me to do so..


 :cheers:

2000 > XP or 7

I ran 2000 until 2010 on my primary desktop.  It was great.  I loved that OS.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Megalodon on November 29, 2013, 12:16:28 PM
2000 > XP or 7

I ran 2000 until 2010 on my primary desktop.  It was great.  I loved that OS.

Yep this game was built on it <G>   For me it was a loss going to XP as the rest of my system was to low for the new games...  :rofl


When and if Ht forces me to make a new system... it will be a system that can run the other games  :t
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Karnak on November 29, 2013, 12:35:07 PM
Not for long sadly.  A year at most...

Many will go to Win7 or Linux.  Mint is awesome.  Wish AH would run on it (it might but I haven't tried it through the emulator).
MS may not support it, but that has no effect of it running on people's systems.  Why you would think it would go away puzzles me.


As to gamers (many AH players are not gamers, fyi) a lot of us build our own systems and once we have an OS we often install the same OS on our new computer.  This is the third computer of mine that has run the same copy of XP.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on November 29, 2013, 01:09:03 PM
MS may not support it, but that has no effect of it running on people's systems.  Why you would think it would go away puzzles me.


As to gamers (many AH players are not gamers, fyi) a lot of us build our own systems and once we have an OS we often install the same OS on our new computer.  This is the third computer of mine that has run the same copy of XP.

It 'would go away' due to not getting drivers for new hardware and due to the fact that since MS has stoped patching XP any new vulnerabilities will rampage its users.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Vraciu on November 29, 2013, 01:14:11 PM
It 'would go away' due to not getting drivers for new hardware and due to the fact that since MS has stoped patching XP any new vulnerabilities will rampage its users.


^^^^^^ This.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Bear76 on November 29, 2013, 01:14:19 PM
I see dead people...

I smell old people...
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Tinkles on November 29, 2013, 01:55:18 PM
 
I smell old people...

 :lol
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Bizman on November 29, 2013, 02:01:08 PM
It 'would go away' due to not getting drivers for new hardware and due to the fact that since MS has stoped patching XP any new vulnerabilities will rampage its users.
Are we talking in general or capability to run AH for some years? In general I'd say yes. In a year or so it would be hard to find a printer for XP. In a few years finding an antivirus would be hard. For everyday use that would be the last minute to unplug it from the internet, IMO.

For solely playing AH, it depends. I wouldn't say that those who play without any antivirus running in the background were safe from vulnerabilities because of the current patches of XP. Their security has been built using other methods. Of course upgrading hardware will become impossible at some point, but definitely not next spring. A high end gaming computer built during the following months will most likely serve perfectly running XP for several years for playing AH. For other games, especially those depending on Steam or other adware XP may become unusable much sooner. As I said, it depends.

There's a worldwide company using abandoned XP licensed office PC's downgraded to 2k, because they find it both cost effective and safe. Knowing how they've done it I can't argue. The same method is easy to adapt for an AH dedicated rig, too.  
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: 715 on November 29, 2013, 02:02:40 PM
About 1% of gamers probably still run XP. Gamers can't afford to have ancient hardware.

Where did you pull that number out of?  According to the current Steam survey about 7% of Steam gamers are on XP (32 and 64 bit) compared to about 51% on Win 7 and about 18% on Win 8.  So you're off by a factor of 700%.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Nathan60 on November 29, 2013, 04:18:24 PM
Where did you pull that number out of?  According to the current Steam survey about 7% of Steam gamers are on XP (32 and 64 bit) compared to about 51% on Win 7 and about 18% on Win 8.  So you're off by a factor of 700%.
Add on top of that how many of the AH community have steam so that number would be much higher I would think  with our community
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on November 29, 2013, 04:55:46 PM
Are we talking in general or capability to run AH for some years? In general I'd say yes. In a year or so it would be hard to find a printer for XP. In a few years finding an antivirus would be hard. For everyday use that would be the last minute to unplug it from the internet, IMO.

For solely playing AH, it depends. I wouldn't say that those who play without any antivirus running in the background were safe from vulnerabilities because of the current patches of XP. Their security has been built using other methods. Of course upgrading hardware will become impossible at some point, but definitely not next spring. A high end gaming computer built during the following months will most likely serve perfectly running XP for several years for playing AH. For other games, especially those depending on Steam or other adware XP may become unusable much sooner. As I said, it depends.

There's a worldwide company using abandoned XP licensed office PC's downgraded to 2k, because they find it both cost effective and safe. Knowing how they've done it I can't argue. The same method is easy to adapt for an AH dedicated rig, too.  

There are already many gaming titles that simply refuse installing to XP at all. Even if you would find drivers for it you would be fighting a losing battle and exposing yourself to huge security risks. Antiviruses are a joke, they do not protect anyone in reality.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on November 29, 2013, 04:56:37 PM
Where did you pull that number out of?  According to the current Steam survey about 7% of Steam gamers are on XP (32 and 64 bit) compared to about 51% on Win 7 and about 18% on Win 8.  So you're off by a factor of 700%.

Wow a whopping 7% lol. And they're probably playing plants vs zombies at 5fps. Yeah, XP is dead.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Nathan60 on November 29, 2013, 05:42:57 PM
Here is a list of players and what they have played on steam today lets add the numbers

Current   Todays Peak
257,029   517,899       Dota 2
61,341   76,238       Counter-Strike: Global Offensive
56,067   62,756       The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
54,985   71,175       Team Fortress 2
46,660   50,333       Sid Meier's Civilization V
40,472   54,934       Football Manager 2014
32,327   35,128       Garry's Mod
25,022   28,235       Terraria
21,961   36,667       Counter-Strike
18,170   27,272       Counter-Strike: Source
17,844   18,808       Path of Exile
15,645   19,026       Total War: ROME II
14,302   16,360       Warframe
14,250   19,144       Football Manager 2013
14,220   15,350       XCOM: Enemy Unknown
13,443   16,216       Left 4 Dead 2
12,878   15,686       Assassin's Creed IV Black Flag
12,582   17,600       Call of Duty: Ghosts - Multiplayer
11,431   12,343       Borderlands 2
7,213   7,655       Dark Souls: Prepare to Die Edition
6,756   8,132       PAYDAY 2
6,732   8,635       War Thunder
6,405   11,615       Call of Duty: Black Ops II - Multiplayer
6,341   6,711       Fallout: New Vegas
6,306   6,441       State of Decay
6,234   6,972       Europa Universalis IV
5,931   7,093       PlanetSide 2
5,809   6,665       Arma 3
5,310   6,217       Arma 2: Operation Arrowhead
5,235   5,470       Kerbal Space Program
4,971   5,217       Rogue Legacy
4,862   6,829       Mount & Blade: Warband
4,809   9,665       Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3 - Multiplayer
4,491   5,126       RIFT™
4,483   4,835       Crusader Kings II
4,423   5,771       Football Manager 2012
4,291   5,356       Empire: Total War
4,245   4,562       Infestation: Survivor Stories
4,153   4,209       BioShock Infinite
3,926   4,184       Game Dev Tycoon
3,806   4,247       Portal 2
3,646   3,861       Age of Empires II: HD Edition
3,640   4,538       Company of Heroes 2
3,540   4,481       No More Room in Hell
3,467   3,727       Killing Floor
3,409   3,865       Sleeping Dogs™
3,363   3,712       Don't Starve
3,331   6,691       Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 - Multiplayer
3,317   4,232       APB Reloaded
3,279   3,619       Prison Architect
3,252   3,703       The Binding of Isaac
3,208   3,739       Total War: SHOGUN 2
3,199   3,825       Might & Magic: Duel of Champions
3,041   3,163       Risk of Rain
3,041   3,110       FINAL FANTASY VII
3,030   3,334       Euro Truck Simulator 2
2,869   2,885       Saints Row IV
2,838   2,895       Dishonored
2,772   3,129       Batman: Arkham City GOTY
2,733   2,746       Marvel Heroes
2,710   2,938       Chivalry: Medieval Warfare
2,671   3,488       Stronghold Kingdoms
2,640   2,999       EVE Online
2,592   2,951       The Walking Dead
2,563   2,647       Torchlight II
2,546   3,145       Dead Island
2,507   2,674       Star Trek Online
2,452   2,913       Batman™: Arkham Origins
2,434   2,844       Farming Simulator 2013
2,413   2,865       Company of Heroes (New Steam Version)
2,405   2,546       Papers, Please
2,404   2,459       Contagion
2,312   2,412       Spelunky
2,288   2,456       Might & Magic: Heroes VI
2,112   2,337       Far Cry® 3
1,911   1,949       FTL: Faster Than Light
1,900   2,496       X Rebirth
1,877   2,000       Magic 2014
1,828   2,129       The Lord of the Rings Online™
1,814   1,839       Trine 2
1,785   1,952       Baldur's Gate: Enhanced Edition
1,783   2,696       RAGE
1,737   2,472       Napoleon: Total War
1,723   1,774       Half-Life 2
1,722   2,031       Saints Row: The Third
1,645   2,423       Call of Duty: Ghosts
1,641   2,087       Rising Storm/Red Orchestra 2 Multiplayer
1,621   2,121       Grand Theft Auto IV
1,600   1,801       The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing
1,560   2,539       Call of Duty: Black Ops - Multiplayer
1,553   1,761       Dungeon Defenders
1,553   1,739       Batman: Arkham Asylum GOTY Edition
1,544   1,694       Assassin’s Creed® III
1,530   1,587       The Sims(TM) 3
1,451   2,152       Train Simulator 2014
1,420   1,751       Rocksmith 2014
1,408   1,471       DC Universe Online
1,371   2,150       Panzar
1,363   1,373       Surgeon Simulator 2013
1,332   1,728       Counter-Strike: Condition Zero

You take 7% of the current users that's till a lot of xp users, and 9/10 of the top 10 games can still be played on XP.


Also
http://news.softpedia.com/news/Microsoft-Concerned-with-the-Number-of-PCs-Still-Running-Windows-XP-397538.shtml (http://news.softpedia.com/news/Microsoft-Concerned-with-the-Number-of-PCs-Still-Running-Windows-XP-397538.shtml)
“We estimate that up to 377,000 PCs in New Zealand... "377K and that's in New Zealand alone
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Tinkles on November 29, 2013, 05:48:02 PM
Wow a whopping 7% lol. And they're probably playing plants vs zombies at 5fps. Yeah, XP is dead.

Dying, but far from dead.

And plants vs zombies plays just fine, even on my ancient rig (with XP )
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Karnak on November 29, 2013, 05:50:11 PM
Wow a whopping 7% lol. And they're probably playing plants vs zombies at 5fps. Yeah, XP is dead.
:rolleyes:

I am running XP on an eight year old computer with a two year old video card. I get very much more than 5fps in every game I have on the system, AH included.  My system is one of the systems in Steam's database.  Do you think Steam's userbase or AH's userbase has a higher percentage of gamers?  I'd wager that AH's percentage of WinXP users is higher than Steam's.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Max on November 29, 2013, 06:31:04 PM
What's steam?  :headscratch:
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: 68ZooM on November 29, 2013, 06:35:47 PM
It 'would go away' due to not getting drivers for new hardware and due to the fact that since MS has stoped patching XP any new vulnerabilities will rampage its users.

I find the statement about no more XP updates being released amusing sense i just got a few updates when i just logged online and have been getting them in the past.  Whats your source for that statement.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Lusche on November 29, 2013, 06:37:06 PM
What's steam?  :headscratch:

Google & Wikipedia broken?  :noid
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: 68ZooM on November 29, 2013, 06:39:12 PM
What's steam?  :headscratch:

Online gaming site where you buy and download from them OR the game you buy in a store requires you to play it online through Steam.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: GScholz on November 29, 2013, 06:48:35 PM

I find the statement about no more XP updates being released amusing sense i just got a few updates when i just logged online and have been getting them in the past.  Whats your source for that statement.

April 8, 2014.

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/end-support-help
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Karnak on November 29, 2013, 07:06:34 PM
April 8, 2014.

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/end-support-help
Mind you that doesn't mean third parties are going to stop releasing drivers for it, just that Microsoft is going to cease support.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: guncrasher on November 29, 2013, 09:19:49 PM
I smell old people...

you have been crapping in the woods too much...


semp
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on November 30, 2013, 03:52:22 AM
Mind you that doesn't mean third parties are going to stop releasing drivers for it, just that Microsoft is going to cease support.

Running XP is already a huge security risk and it's going to get only worse. Since its users are inevitably going to disappear there is no reason for hardware vendors to keep wasting resources in supporting it. Just face it, even if you happen to still use it the OS is outdated, dangerous and deserves to be buried already.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Karnak on November 30, 2013, 08:16:57 AM
Running XP is already a huge security risk and it's going to get only worse. Since its users are inevitably going to disappear there is no reason for hardware vendors to keep wasting resources in supporting it. Just face it, even if you happen to still use it the OS is outdated, dangerous and deserves to be buried already.
Depends on how you run it.  As far as hardware vendors, they will keep supporting it as long as it is profitable.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on November 30, 2013, 08:39:22 AM
Depends on how you run it.  As far as hardware vendors, they will keep supporting it as long as it is profitable.

Considering that the user base is as low as it is already and the chances that anyone buying new hardware is going to install it on XP are diminishing, I'd say we're way past that point already. The only reason why motherboard etc. manufacturers continue to support XP is that there are still some busineses that desperately cling to XP.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Bizman on November 30, 2013, 09:18:38 AM
Considering that the user base is as low as it is already and the chances that anyone buying new hardware is going to install it on XP are diminishing, I'd say we're way past that point already. The only reason why motherboard etc. manufacturers continue to support XP is that there are still some busineses that desperately cling to XP.
Over half of the Chinese still use XP according to http://gs.statcounter.com/#os-CN-monthly-201311-201311-bar (http://gs.statcounter.com/#os-CN-monthly-201311-201311-bar), but I agree the number of them is non-significant in a global measure. As well as the 30% in Africa.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Changeup on November 30, 2013, 09:23:04 AM
Over half of the Chinese still use XP according to http://gs.statcounter.com/#os-CN-monthly-201311-201311-bar (http://gs.statcounter.com/#os-CN-monthly-201311-201311-bar), but I agree the number of them is non-significant in a global measure. As well as the 30% in Africa.


Yes, lets support ChiComm techies. 
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: dirtdart on December 01, 2013, 07:52:14 AM
Over half of the Chinese still use XP according to http://gs.statcounter.com/#os-CN-monthly-201311-201311-bar (http://gs.statcounter.com/#os-CN-monthly-201311-201311-bar), but I agree the number of them is non-significant in a global measure. As well as the 30% in Africa.


And how many are real registered copies? Lol. I remember being able to buy pretty much and program, including Final Cut Pro at the local markets in Kabul .....
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Bizman on December 01, 2013, 08:12:43 AM
And how many are real registered copies? Lol. I remember being able to buy pretty much and program, including Final Cut Pro at the local markets in Kabul .....
Registered or non registered, it doesn't matter in this case. They exist. And the amount of them is enormous.

It's true, though, that a great deal of them are pirated, which means that they can't install most of the updates available, leaving them extremely vulnerable, making them an easy target for bot farmers. But the Chinese piracy issue has been known for quite a long time and most probably is also true for the more modern Windows version.

Back to the original subject without forgetting where this thread has gone: Will the new version be ready before the end of XP support? And how long will AH be playable on XP, be it this current version or the one we've been offered glimpses of?
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Karnak on December 01, 2013, 10:06:56 AM
Back to the original subject without forgetting where this thread has gone: Will the new version be ready before the end of XP support? And how long will AH be playable on XP, be it this current version or the one we've been offered glimpses of?
I keep hoping to build a new computer, but the money for it just keeps falling through for one reason or another.  I am stuck with WinXP for the foreseeable future.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Kazaa on December 01, 2013, 10:08:08 AM
Still on Win7 here.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Kazaa on December 01, 2013, 10:11:40 AM
Marketing.  You have to love it.  There is not a 3D graphic feature available in DX11, which cannot be done in DX9.

In the meantime, this thread has wandered a long way from its intended path.

Isn't DX11 required for the use of tessellation?
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Megalodon on December 01, 2013, 10:17:56 AM
I found it interesting that even though they are developing a new game... il-2 BOS is still going to use directX9.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: LCADolby on December 01, 2013, 10:35:40 AM
If you are still using XP;


"GET WITH THE NOW!!!!!"
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Kazaa on December 01, 2013, 10:38:55 AM
I found it interesting that even though they are developing a new game... il-2 BOS is still going to use directX9.

They're using Rise of Flight's engine, right? It's much quicker and cheaper than starting from scratch.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: jedi25 on December 01, 2013, 11:03:29 AM
Back on topic regarding the new terrain engine development..

I wonder if Hitech will employ and include Ambient Occlusion, a Nvidia graphic card feature that enhances depth perception and adds realism to 3D scenes by providing a soft shadow effect to objects based on their placement in the scene?
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Karnak on December 01, 2013, 11:07:41 AM
If you are still using XP;


"GET WITH THE NOW!!!!!"
Then send me the money to build a new system or shut up.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: LCADolby on December 01, 2013, 11:09:41 AM
Then send me the money to build a new system or shut up.

 :lol

Invest Karnak, Invest.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Karnak on December 01, 2013, 11:19:37 AM
:lol

Invest Karnak, Invest.
That takes cash to spare that I don't have.  If I could invest I could also build a new computer.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Volron on December 01, 2013, 11:21:19 AM
Isn't DX9 still more stable than DX11? :headscratch:
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on December 01, 2013, 12:59:38 PM
That takes cash to spare that I don't have.  If I could invest I could also build a new computer.

You should have taken the $35 win 8 deal.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: PFactorDave on December 01, 2013, 01:02:23 PM
You should have taken the $35 win 8 deal.

Windows 8?  No thank you.  I don't want my PC to look and act like my phone, thank you very much.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: SlidingHorn on December 01, 2013, 01:12:30 PM
Windows 8?  No thank you.  I don't want my PC to look and act like my phone, thank you very much.

There's still a normal desktop option, and you can boot directly to it if you don't like the Metro interface...

I'm a big, loud-mouthed critic of Microsoft and its Windoze platforms, but I'm actually enjoying 8.1 on my desktop a lot more than I thought I would, now that I've gotten used to it.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Karnak on December 01, 2013, 01:23:49 PM
You should have taken the $35 win 8 deal.
My wife's laptop has Win8 on it.  Even patched with one of the aftermarket "start" menus it sucks.

Not sure my system would like Win8 either.  I doubt I could get drivers for some of my out of date hardware.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: PFactorDave on December 01, 2013, 01:29:39 PM
There's still a normal desktop option

Which is clunky and feels like it was an after thought.

For god's sake, I wish they would quit trying to force more "features" on us.  Give me a bare bones OS with the ability to handle whatever new "features" I want to install.  Quit giving me trash laden systems that you have to spend countless hours stripping out all the junk you don't want.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Karnak on December 01, 2013, 01:39:13 PM
Win8 does things for no apparent reason that I can tell.  It makes it very hard to multitask on a PC and even makes it hard to figure out how to use simple things like browsers.  I was using Chrome on my wife's laptop and somehow got to where it was displaying the HTML code of the webpage.  There are no menus or anything to back out of that.  I had to shut Chrome down and relaunch it.

Win8 is a phone/tablet OS that has no business being on PCs.  If I wanted a crippled computer I'd just use a phone or tablet to begin with.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on December 01, 2013, 04:33:01 PM
My wife's laptop has Win8 on it.  Even patched with one of the aftermarket "start" menus it sucks.

Not sure my system would like Win8 either.  I doubt I could get drivers for some of my out of date hardware.

Win8 is lighter than 7 so it probably will do just fine. Don't compare laptop to desktop.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on December 01, 2013, 04:34:16 PM
Win8 does things for no apparent reason that I can tell.  It makes it very hard to multitask on a PC and even makes it hard to figure out how to use simple things like browsers.  I was using Chrome on my wife's laptop and somehow got to where it was displaying the HTML code of the webpage.  There are no menus or anything to back out of that.  I had to shut Chrome down and relaunch it.

Win8 is a phone/tablet OS that has no business being on PCs.  If I wanted a crippled computer I'd just use a phone or tablet to begin with.

LOL thats a chrome problem if anything. Win8 is just like Win7 once you install classic shell on it.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Karnak on December 01, 2013, 04:51:22 PM
LOL thats a chrome problem if anything. Win8 is just like Win7 once you install classic shell on it.
IE behaves the same as Chrome.  Not sure about Firefox.
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on December 02, 2013, 12:16:04 AM
IE behaves the same as Chrome.  Not sure about Firefox.

Aah you must be using the metro versions of the applications. Don't do that. Install classic shell and use regular versions instead.

As a sidenote, hot from the press: http://www.hardocp.com/news/2013/12/01/intel_hp_prepare_for_end_days_xp
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: SlidingHorn on December 02, 2013, 12:46:44 PM
Which is clunky and feels like it was an after thought.

For god's sake, I wish they would quit trying to force more "features" on us.  Give me a bare bones OS with the ability to handle whatever new "features" I want to install.  Quit giving me trash laden systems that you have to spend countless hours stripping out all the junk you don't want.

Sounds to me like you want a linux machine ;)
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: GScholz on December 02, 2013, 02:30:57 PM
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26232318/ie.jpg)
Title: Re: About the new terrain
Post by: Iraqvet on December 04, 2013, 08:09:07 PM
Cant Wait  :x