Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: bentnail on December 02, 2013, 07:12:09 AM
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I think if you would limit the amount of each plain type at each field,(like large field 10 spits of each type, and so on down the list. small fields, smaller numbers)As well as how many plains that can lift at once. This way The hordes would have to lift in waves, or from different fields at the same time. Eather way it would be more realistic.
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Its already hard enough to find a fight sometimes when hordes are not around or you play in off peak times. Limiting planes at an airfield would be even worse.
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bentnail...complaining about hordes...... :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
holyhell that is funny right there. :aok
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The problem with this solution is that the defenders at already at a numbers disadvantage. By
limiting the number of defending aircraft <who already usually start with a position and energy
deficit>, it would just make the horde job that much easier.
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The problem with this solution is that the defenders at already at a numbers disadvantage. By
limiting the number of defending aircraft <who already usually start with a position and energy
deficit>, it would just make the horde job that much easier.
Then perhaps have this setup for those sides who have higher numbers?
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Solution to incoming horde;
Gather a bigger horde to intercept
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Although difficult to program, I would think lowering perk cost at a base being pommeled by a horde and or raising eny value would work better.
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Solution to incoming horde:
Mass ISP bans from HTC
I fixed some typos for you :aok.
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Although difficult to program, I would think lowering perk cost at a base being pommeled by a horde and or raising eny value would work better.
In all seriousness, I've been a big fan of excessively harsh ENY limits. Basically, if your side has 40 more players than the side with the lowest number, I want you to be restricted to flying ENY 40 aircraft for your horde.
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Solution to incoming horde;
Gather a bigger horde to intercept
But that would mean players like Tank-Ace would *gasp* actually have to fight instead of cruising around strats looking for C-47s.
ack-ack
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I honestly don't have a huge problem with the concept of the horde...
What I would like to see is auto-ack at airfields that is as brutal as ack protecting a CV. I believe that it should be suicidal to attempt to vulch.
I also think that it should be impossible to close all of the hangars on an airfield. I would rather see three hangars for each vehicle type... Three fighter hangars, three bomber hangars, three vehicle hangars...
Then, link the available aircraft at that field to the number of hangars that are currently open.
Kill one fighter hangar and fighter with an eny of 10 or less cannot be launched from that field... Kill two hangars and nothing with an eny less than 20... Kill all three and only eny 30+ fighters are available. Similar restrictions for bombers and GVs...
Then, if needed, re-assess all aircraft/vehicle eny assignments and adjust as necessary. Also, re-assess field capture requirements, lowering them if necessary.
So, we have fields where aircraft can always be launched and should be able to get airborn. The attackers can still horde, shut down hangars (thus limiting the opposition, but never stopping it entirely). The horde can cap a town and try to control that airspace while completing the capture requirements. There can always be a fight.
Plus, new players can get airborne and into action without the frustration of being vulched repeatedly. Then, when they get easily killed, they aren't wasting the time of flying from a field 25 miles away, only to be killed after one turn. It will actually be more fun for new players.
Experienced players will still have the option of launching from the next field and gaining the altitude just as we have now. Or, if they want, they can be challenged by launching from the attacked field in a potentially high eny plane.
The key though, is more possibilities for actual combat and it would be harder for hordes to avoid combat.
Just my opinions, based upon my own experiences.
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I honestly don't have a huge problem with the concept of the horde...
What I would like to see is auto-ack at airfields that is as brutal as ack protecting a CV. I believe that it should be suicidal to attempt to vulch.
I also think that it should be impossible to close all of the hangars on an airfield. I would rather see three hangars for each vehicle type... Three fighter hangars, three bomber hangars, three vehicle hangars...
Then, link the available aircraft at that field to the number of hangars that are currently open.
Kill one fighter hangar and fighter with an eny of 10 or less cannot be launched from that field... Kill two hangars and nothing with an eny less than 20... Kill all three and only eny 30+ fighters are available. Similar restrictions for bombers and GVs...
Then, if needed, re-assess all aircraft/vehicle eny assignments and adjust as necessary. Also, re-assess field capture requirements, lowering them if necessary.
So, we have fields where aircraft can always be launched and should be able to get airborn. The attackers can still horde, shut down hangars (thus limiting the opposition, but never stopping it entirely). The horde can cap a town and try to control that airspace while completing the capture requirements. There can always be a fight.
Plus, new players can get airborne and into action without the frustration of being vulched repeatedly. Then, when they get easily killed, they aren't wasting the time of flying from a field 25 miles away, only to be killed after one turn. It will actually be more fun for new players.
Experienced players will still have the option of launching from the next field and gaining the altitude just as we have now. Or, if they want, they can be challenged by launching from the attacked field in a potentially high eny plane.
The key though, is more possibilities for actual combat and it would be harder for hordes to avoid combat.
Just my opinions, based upon my own experiences.
I kind of like it. I disagree on the ack part though, because then players would run to it more, knowing that it's 80%+ more effective (making it do all the work for them, and not promoting combat). The rest, I think deserves a look (at least) from HTC. Perhaps, make it's own topic? :)
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I kind of like it. I disagree on the ack part though, because then players would run to it more, knowing that it's 80%+ more effective (making it do all the work for them, and not promoting combat). The rest, I think deserves a look (at least) from HTC. Perhaps, make it's own topic? :)
Make the ack guns indestructible then. It's long been my opinion that it is far far too easy to neutralize an airfield by de-acking and vulching. I also believe that game play like vulching is really bad for new player retention.
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Make the ack guns indestructible then. It's long been my opinion that it is far far too easy to neutralize an airfield by de-acking and vulching. I also believe that game play like vulching is really bad for new player retention.
Not trying to be a jerk or anything, but I'm just looking at it from my POV.
Making ack guns indestructible would really unbalance the game. While I understand your point of the base being easy to de-ack and vulch. Making the guns indestructible or more accurate won't do anything but make many more people upset.
The 'random' ack that gets a pilot or engine oil all the time. That pesky 88 gunner who can't be killed( :devil ).
I'm not really sure how to make vulching more challenging for the attackers, but making it possible to de-ack a field. I have seen many posts here where accuracy for anti-aircraft guns were horrible (in some cases), but in other cases they were fairly accurate.
Accuracy for the guns is fine as it is now. Perhaps, it's something else, but I can't put my finger on it.
:salute
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I also believe that game play like vulching is really bad for new player retention.
Why wasn't it that way years ago, when it was far easier to vulch (less ack, no wirbels)? :angel:
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The only viable solution for stopping hordes is peer pressure and people being convinced hordes are not needed to achieve their aims. Any game restrictions will take the game further down the road to destruction than has already been done, at least the ones I have heard being proposed now and in the past.
I like squads being able to fly together and fly what they want provided it doesn't offset balance of power. The larger squads should be courteous enough to limit their large operations to be considerate of their fellow fliers. If they won't, then some measure should be taken to address them by their peers in all countries. If a large portion of the playing base want, they can make the abusive individuals actions less fun for them and perhaps make some of them look at what they are really doing to the game. Rolling maps might be fun for them, but perhaps some just do not know how to do anything else and are afraid to ask because of the prima donna airs some affect.
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Why wasn't it that way years ago, when it was far easier to vulch (less ack, no wirbels)? :angel:
Who says it wasn't?
I believe that it has always been bad for new player retention. Who knows how big the playerbase could have been?
Don't make the mistake of assuming that a larger population before means that players weren't leaving the game back then due to bad mechanics. It's just more important now than it ever has been.
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Just going to re-post what I said in the logistical support thread:
Currently there is no difference between small, medium and large fields in terms of fielding aircraft and vehicles. The only difference with respect to field size is the difficulty in disabling a particular asset. I propose limiting the number of plane and vehicle types to be in flight at any given time depending on field size. (E.G. The limiting number of fighter aircraft could be 10, 20, and 30 for small, medium, and large fields, respectively). If a fighter hanger(s) is destroyed, then the limiting number is reduced proportionately. Limiting numbers can fluctuate with player distribution and ENY, increasing for countries with low numbers and decreasing for countries with high numbers. Could potentially even be a strat factory that effects the limiting number as well,.
Harder to horde, but harder to defend as well. Double edged sword. I for one don't have a problem with large missions as long as they accomplish an objective such as capturing a base. Just creating a fighter cap and vulching anybody stupid enough to lift off of a capped field just to get a kill with minimal effort is beyond me. To each his own, plenty of diversity in this game to keep me coming back.
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bentnail...complaining about hordes...... :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
holyhell that is funny right there. :aok
Before you stir the pot, might want to talk to some of your squad about gang hording first. The AoM now isn't the one from a year ago....3-4-5 vs me. Last month they also spent most of the time on rooks, which was funny coming from a squad who "generally flies on the low numbered side"
Shots Fired.
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I wasn't talking about "the pigs" just bentnail...it was quite funny reading him complain about ganging :rofl........I think every time I have killed him he always has friends with him......but now that you mention it...the pigs have always been a ganging squad..I mean cmon now...how many "wings" you guys have?
but I will stop here out of respect for a few of your members who have shown me in the past that the squad does not dictate the individual..... :salute
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We have a few wings :aok But trust me we chase after red guys with like or more numbers then us when we do up in mass.....like I said though AoM been doing some questionable things as of late too.
A little bantor always leads to fun fights
:salute
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Once you have 2-3 firends thinking the same way as you do, the first thing youre praying for is the biggest arse bish horde ever headed towards your country :aok
The AoM now isn't the one from a year ago....3-4-5 vs me.
Once you see me ganging one in 3-4-5 vs 1, interrupting a fair 1v1 fight, joining a 2v1 as a 3rd, BnZing a simmilar aircraft in 1v1, etc., you can immediately...
1: call me a hypocrite and i wont defend myself
2: demand my squad to kick me out (i will leave anyway), if those gangers are from my own squad.
This is why i have choosed my squadron, i havent seen this from them.
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Then perhaps have this setup for those sides who have higher numbers?
I could see this as another optional effect like the ENY now but maybe more sensitive to any difference in numbers. Only concern would be whether or not it would really have that much of an effect on hording anyway.
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Once you have 2-3 firends thinking the same way as you do, the first thing youre praying for is the biggest arse bish horde ever headed towards your country :aok
Once you see me ganging one in 3-4-5 vs 1, interrupting a fair 1v1 fight, joining a 2v1 as a 3rd, BnZing a simmilar aircraft in 1v1, etc., you can immediately...
1: call me a hypocrite and i wont defend myself
2: demand my squad to kick me out (i will leave anyway), if those gangers are from my own squad.
This is why i have choosed my squadron, i havent seen this from them.
Never saw you do it....even before you were in AoM.
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We have a few wings :aok But trust me we chase after red guys with like or more numbers then us when we do up in mass.....like I said though AoM been doing some questionable things as of late too.
A little bantor always leads to fun fights
:salute
You're not very good at this are you?
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Could care less about hordes. My guess HTC could care less also = a bunch of subscribers having fun.
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You're not very good at this are you?
ahh I like Junky so I stepped out of convo.....
I am gonna try to avoid getting angry....its not easy for me....but I didn't click "post" on the 1000 word response I had to him.....so I am getting better :banana:
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The only viable solution for stopping hordes is peer pressure ....
Ah, the 'behavior police' answer! (Not working since 1999.) ;)
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Ah, the 'behavior police' answer! (Not working since 1999.) ;)
Zip it hippie. :furious
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Zip it hippie. :furious
Case in point^ :lol
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ahh I like Junky so I stepped out of convo.....
I am gonna try to avoid getting angry....its not easy for me....but I didn't click "post" on the 1000 word response I had to him.....so I am getting better :banana:
I just meant he's not very good at trolling and it's becoming a habit. I mean, you're not supposed to make sure everyone knows you're just trolling if you want it to work. :)
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I'm not quite sure why a lot of people are trying to find ways to make flying together more difficult. Is seeing a red plane really that terrifying? Next time you see a large red dar bar put the alert out on country and coordinate some fighters to go and kill it... unless I'm in the area then please go somewhere else, these are my red planes! :P
I've always found a health dose of bullets to be the most effective way of breaking up these "hordes". :D After all, this game is about going towards the fights, not away from them. If you want to kill hordes then you are going to have to get your hands dirty. :joystick:
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(http://images2.beautyheaven.com.au/article_images/0028/9369/dirty-hands_article_new.jpg?1355873573)
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I'm not quite sure why a lot of people are trying to find ways to make flying together more difficult. Is seeing a red plane really that terrifying? Next time you see a large red dar bar put the alert out on country and coordinate some fighters to go and kill it... unless I'm in the area then please go somewhere else, these are my red planes! :P
I've always found a health dose of bullets to be the most effective way of breaking up these "hordes". :D After all, this game is about going towards the fights, not away from them. If you want to kill hordes then you are going to have to get your hands dirty. :joystick:
You act as though we've forgotten our fighters have guns. While red guys aren't scary (especially if they're bish or NOE lancs), the issue is that you can simply be overwhelmed strategically. You must remember that most people seem to play to "win teh warz :joystick:!", and so keeping their base is more important than killing the lemmings.
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The horde is just a really good chance to get kills....why would anyone have a problem with this?....Yes your chances of dying in the horde environment are very high but oh well...there is a nice new plane waiting in the hanger with no holes in it and the windscreen is free from blood spatter... :devil
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I'm not quite sure why a lot of people are trying to find ways to make flying together more difficult. Is seeing a red plane really that terrifying? Next time you see a large red dar bar put the alert out on country and coordinate some fighters to go and kill it... unless I'm in the area then please go somewhere else, these are my red planes! :P
I've always found a health dose of bullets to be the most effective way of breaking up these "hordes". :D After all, this game is about going towards the fights, not away from them. If you want to kill hordes then you are going to have to get your hands dirty. :joystick:
typed so perfectly it needs to be re-posted.....except the last part of the first paragraph...they are not your red cons they are mine :joystick:
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Hoards are this game's way of life. The arena has no rules or mechanisms imposed by a central authority or control. So the MA mirrors real life where groups contend against each other over what ever the reward of the moment is for them. In over a decade that fact hasn't changed. If anything the MA reminds me of the never ending slaughter fests the War Hammer 40,000 dice role game attempted to depict in it's side stories about the different contending species. Achieving goals was just as important as the mindless slaughter required to do it.
No one can come up with a solution to hoards(player conduct) without ultimately describing an imposed ridged central mechanism or Hitech holding a gun to your head forcing you to think "right thoughts". Punish paying customers for having fun not in a manner that pleases those who know the one right true way to play this game.
All of the evolutionary stages of hoards in this game over the last decade, describe a common theme of adapting and overcoming in a no rules environment. Hitech has changed system requirements and updated mechanisms to address the worst nature of hoards a number of times over the years. In the end, the hoards adapted and overcame the changes. We have been given "special arenas" ad naseam so those convinced they know the right true way to play the game can play their way with like minded followers. Instead, they stay in the MA and practice insanity by making the same complaints today about game play as they did ad naseam over this last decade. It's the hoards fault this game stinks.
You play in the no rules MA, you play against hoards. Or stop insulting paying customers and accept they want to play together as a group of "paying customers" because they find it achieves their short term needs for fun. It's not like Hitech is holding a gun to your heads so you can't "adapt and overcome" to their strategy to having fun in a game with no rules. Or you as a group leading them to learn a new way to play the game. But, we can't be bothered because that cuts down on our Oh so short nightly time to club baby seals and get our fix in the MA. Everybody invests in themselves but not our community. Then complains to Hitech when things don't turn out like their fantasies for Aces High game play. Kinda defines insanity.
If a member of those hoards complains in this forum how unfair it is to be slaughtered by the ACM sharks, he gets ridiculed for being a whiner by the ACM sharks. When said whiner gets 40 friends together and slaughters whole sectors, suddenly the ACM sharks need the game changed because of a serious problem in the game play mechanics. All of us die to superior numbers of unskilled whiners who took our kind forum observations to heart, then adapted and overcame. Just not the way we wanted them to so we could have more fun our way.
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I'm not quite sure why a lot of people are trying to find ways to make flying together more difficult. Is seeing a red plane really that terrifying?
apparently it is, that's why they fly together in hordes.
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I'm not quite sure why a lot of people are trying to find ways to make flying together more difficult. Is seeing a red plane really that terrifying? Next time you see a large red dar bar put the alert out on country and coordinate some fighters to go and kill it... unless I'm in the area then please go somewhere else, these are my red planes! :P
Because they want to make it easier for themselves and don't want to make an effort to do what it takes to defend against a hoard attacking their base. Like I said in another post, these types of players also whine...err complain about the lack of fights when the fight is staring them smack in the face but their tears and puffy eyes from crying has made them blind.
ack-ack
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If a member of those hoards complains in this forum how unfair it is to be slaughtered by the ACM sharks, he gets ridiculed for being a whiner by the ACM sharks. When said whiner gets 40 friends together and slaughters whole sectors, suddenly the ACM sharks need the game changed because of a serious problem in the game play mechanics. All of us die to superior numbers of unskilled whiners who took our kind forum observations to heart, then adapted and overcame. Just not the way we wanted them to so we could have more fun our way.
so fricking true bustr. lots of people will complain because nobody plays according to their own interpretation of the non-existing rules that we have in aces high.
I have been playing for over 7 years and there were hordes back then, even bigger than the ones we have now. I remember many times upping with about 30 players going noe to a certain base only to find 30 enemy players in noe mission to attack our base. that happen often and it was always funny.
hordes arent the problem the problem is people forgetting hordes have been around for a long time.
from 2001:
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,1449.0.html
asking for bonues perks for fighting hordes
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,7402.msg97984.html#msg97984
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,7697.msg101711.html#msg101711
complaining that knights were sending 35-30 rooks at a time and cant defend against that. about 5 messages down. from 8/2000.
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,10255.msg134828.html#msg134828
so I can post hundreds of threads complaining about hordes. so I am gonna ask one more time. did the hordes became a problem recently? or has it always been like that since day one?
semp
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did the hordes became a problem recently? or has it always been like that since day one?[/font] [/color]
semp
Day one.
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so I can post hundreds of threads complaining about hordes. so I am gonna ask one more time. did the hordes became a problem recently? or has it always been like that since day one?
semp
Hordes are NOT the problem. That it is becoming the ONLY mission people run IS the problem.
Back then you might get a horde now and then, but there was always other fights. Small missions, NOE's, CV battles, and furballs would pop up more often than a horde. Today you rarely see a good old fashion furball, mission almost never launch with out 25+ guys, CV battles end in minutes to dive bombing lancs. NOE's are still around, but when you only fly an hour or two here and there chasing them wastes a lot of time. If the game isn't going to keep "fun" as a lead action subscriptions will continue to fall.
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Hordes are NOT the problem. That it is becoming the ONLY mission people run IS the problem.
Back then you might get a horde now and then, but there was always other fights. Small missions, NOE's, CV battles, and furballs would pop up more often than a horde. Today you rarely see a good old fashion furball, mission almost never launch with out 25+ guys, CV battles end in minutes to dive bombing lancs. NOE's are still around, but when you only fly an hour or two here and there chasing them wastes a lot of time. If the game isn't going to keep "fun" as a lead action subscriptions will continue to fall.
The problem is to keep it "fun" is player motivated and player driven. If the players aren't willing then it won't happen.
HTC can't really do anything without stepping on someones toes. Or playing the "God" piece of "You can't do diz nuh moar" type of thing.
While I would like to see some of the suggestions added in other posts that were originally there to add more difficulty for hordes. I think the issue is the player mindset, and simply how it needs to change from "making it easier" to finding more diversity in gameplay. Instead of taking p38s, make it interesting and take D3As or P40s w/ bombs.
Right now players are taking the easy road (not talking of everyone, just the "hoarders"), and take the biggest gun and easiest path. Some take the harder one and the smaller/harder weapon for a more challenging and rewarding experience. Obviously, taking the easy road is more preferred, but is detrimental in the long run.
I think the best thing that can be done at this point is simply when a mission comes up and they want more than 10 guys, simply don't join. I don't mind teamwork, but there is a fine line of being organized and being overpowering.
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Hordes are NOT the problem. That it is becoming the ONLY mission people run IS the problem.
Back then you might get a horde now and then, but there was always other fights. Small missions, NOE's, CV battles, and furballs would pop up more often than a horde. Today you rarely see a good old fashion furball, mission almost never launch with out 25+ guys, CV battles end in minutes to dive bombing lancs. NOE's are still around, but when you only fly an hour or two here and there chasing them wastes a lot of time. If the game isn't going to keep "fun" as a lead action subscriptions will continue to fall.
found this thread, this guy mdjoe replied on it. think it was implied that he was hording rooks and a few guys were stopping them. not once was it disputed that the other guy was wrong implaying about the hording. and you know what it means? it means nothing other than two groups of people having fun and implying that they were better than the other.
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,154263.0.html
semp
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First I'm not advocating Hitech step in and force us to change our habits or delay our gratification with limiters on resources or timers limiting what and when we can up from a field.
After a decade we have evolved hoards into the ultimate blunt force win tool because they work. Along with this we hide in them and 25k on top of them because many of us don't want to be killed in the game at any cost. So we want to be with the 12-30 guys on top unabashedly raping the guys below trapped against the ground. Describes a lot of WW2 and the primary tactic that won fights. Or many battles through out history. Numbers and personal survival decided the fate of civilizations. It's obvious personal survival is more powerful than morality or sportsmanship in an anonymous setting.
Today we are at a confluence of numbers, evolution, and balkanization of player self identification across the three sides of our game. In the past when we fielded more players for longer prime times, most of this was a non issue. There was an excess on all sides who didn't join the hoard in their country and created other types of action elsewhere on the maps. We had a diversity in play styles to entertain us for those willing to look. Looking means not willing to create it themselves. But, could find it and be happy with the game.
Today we appear to be top heavy with lookers and not creators of fun, action, combat or a diversity of them. I will suspect many of the first to move on to other games in the past few years were the creators. The creators were players or groups of players who others followed because they had become a name brand for fun and success whatever they were up to. Todays hoards have become telling in the lack of willingness to branch out in smaller numbers and risk personal failure or defeat as the cost of creating fun.
One might say we have been reduced over time to an unimaginative comfort rut with community leadership who values that comfort over risk. Now that we don't have excess numbers to muddy the optics.
Hoards as the only response to anything today is a symptom of players desperately looking for fun, and many with a low risk value. A few days ago at midnight pacific time I went to a field with a yakT to de-ack, alone it appeared when my countrymen failed to show up. The response was a small hoard to kill just me flying in with alt from another field. Granted, since hoards are the primary source of red guys today, also the main source of combat for those who don't have personal risk issues during prime time.
I don't believe Hitech is on the hook to change this. That has consequences often resulting in lost revenue if he try's to force customers to do anything. And at this time we need our community more than ever. And community is the solution to how hoards are used. Opposed to Hitech jacking everyone around and imposing limitations with consequences to our evenings fun while driving away our freinds.
I know that in knight land for the most part we are a cluster flop parade where it comes to organization. I suspect to a degree the balkanization by personality across the three countries accounts for that. So it's quit easy in this game for even low level organizational tendencies to leverage the hoard as a blunt force win tool. Especially with a hoard of willing lookers who have personal risk issues looking to be led to riskless victories.
Tuesday nights my squad POTW has it's squad night. We can get up to 20 pigs online for that every Tuesday night. But, my CO hates being part of a mindless hoard. So POTW goes where our hoard isn't and picks a fight. We load up a few bombs and make it obvious by breaking things we are there to play. Half the time we get a big hoard furball response. The other half the green robot hoard shows up and finishes off the field. So we go somewhere else and pick another fight to avoid our own country's hoard.
Squads can choose to avoid their own country's hoard tendencies and create fun somewhere else. Then move on when the hoard lings show up for a free lunch with no risk. Right now it looks like laziness is the rule, and wining at all costs specifically with the hoard lings as human waves is the easy risk free way to a fun evening. Squads have more influence on how this game is played and won't admit it. And are the reason hoards with all of their game destroying problems exist today. But, then who doesn't want to win especially if you are hiding in a hoard to cover your lazy approach to wining while teaching new players this is what Aces High is about when they go on to form their squads.
At least Hitech in the face of this laziness, can set the radar back to where it was in the NOE hoard days so we all go back to flying under 15k. And flipping maps faster.
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found this thread, this guy mdjoe replied on it. think it was implied that he was hording rooks and a few guys were stopping them. not once was it disputed that the other guy was wrong implaying about the hording. and you know what it means? it means nothing other than two groups of people having fun and implying that they were better than the other.
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,154263.0.html
semp
What a wonderful trip down memory lane! Ya that lasted a few weeks, but Mugz had them well in hand. When I stepped down from CO of the Mafia it was because I was tired of running a big squad ( big meant a couple wings, but a squad night usually netted no more than 12-15 guys a small horde). When running big missions hitting a number of bases at once you don't have time to "play" your too busy leading. From the "Mafia" histories....
Mugz, "The Don of Don's "
Ah Mugz, Mugz, Mugz.... were to begin ! First, let me say that this writer truly believes that Mugz is the greatest Leader that the Mafia has ever known, or will ever have for that matter... The "Don of Dons"
Mugz leadership potential was revealed back in the waning days of MDJOE's reign. Mugz had more time to fly back then and he used his time well learning all he could of the skies of Aces High. It wasn't long before he could hold is own in any of the fighters ( he is still to be feared in his Yak, Hurri, or dare I say it.... spit V! ), Bombing was a piece of cake, and strategy was the name of the game! At first Mugz missions were small, him and 1 or 2 mafioso would up B17's and cripple the enemies strats. Fuel ammo,radar, it didn't matter it all went down. Soon the Bishops were noticing that Mugz was hurting the enemy, and more and more people wanted to join. Soon Mugz was running missions 30+ strong, when Mugz ran a mission EVERYONE noticed !
About this time MDJOE was looking to step down as CO and had two candidates to choose from for his replacement, but real life got in the way and made what would have been a very difficult decision easy. Mugz had to go into semi-retirement, so Tzr was tapped to lead. 6 or 8 months later Mugz came back. Tzr asked him to lead a new wing called the "Wize Guys". The "Enforcer" and "Hitman" wings were pretty full up, and Tzr needed a "First Strike/ Scout" wing. To accomplish this Mugz took the "Wize Guys" to a H2H arena for some training. Before long The "Wize Guys" could de-ack a field in two passes, drop radar, and get out without losing a man or stirring up a hornets nest !
When Tzr stepped down, he tapped Mugz as the new CO. This caused a problem with a small faction in the squad causing them to split from the Mafia. Why they left is un-important, but what it did when they left was very important. The defection of these few members galvanized the rest of the squad to reassert their loyalty to Mugz and the rest of the squad! It was time to rebuild the squad, no, not "rebuild" but to reassert those things that make this squad great... Honor... Teamwork... and most of all Fun !
Recruitment and training where now the priorities. Under recruitment, the Mafia web page was ordered re-done. Mugz wanted everyone to know where everyone stood. Recruits could read what was expected of them ( a good attitude, honor, and the willingness to help out where its needed ), and in return they would be given leadership, training, missions, and a whole lot of fun flying with the best group around! Under training were many opportunities to learn the many little tricks of the game. Mugz was smart enough to know that he doesn't know it all about this game, so he set up a training group, having each member... who was good at that technique. show the others some tips and tricks. Training included "Tips and tricks of the AH notebook", "Wingman Tactics", "Bomber timing runs", as well as "Dive Bombing Tricks in the P38", though there are still some who just can't help slamming that thing into the ground !
That's why I call Mugz the "Don of Don's" he's every CO the mob has ever had rolled into one great leader ! ... and where he will lead them next??? .... ahhh but that's for another to tell !
And the story continues !
The underlined and bolded section points out that there was a rift created when Mugz was given leadership of the squad. Panman was a bit upset that he wasn't given the squad and really didn't like Mugz all that much. So he quit the squad and a few of his closer friends went with him and he created the "Regulators". At first it was his mission to make squad night miserable for Mugz and the Mafia, but that got old quick and everyone went on to just play the game and have fun. Panman quit the game about 6 months later.
....and so now you know the rest of the story.
As I have said, many many times there have always been hordes, and all teams horde. The problem is it is becoming the norm now. The only break you see in the hordes is the NOEs when we have an "island" map up then you see more NOE's because it is easier for hordlings to fly NOE over water than over mountains.
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What a wonderful trip down memory lane! Ya that lasted a few weeks, but Mugz had them well in hand. When I stepped down from CO of the Mafia it was because I was tired of running a big squad ( big meant a couple wings, but a squad night usually netted no more than 12-15 guys a small horde). When running big missions hitting a number of bases at once you don't have time to "play" your too busy leading. From the "Mafia" histories....
Mugz, "The Don of Don's "
Ah Mugz, Mugz, Mugz.... were to begin ! First, let me say that this writer truly believes that Mugz is the greatest Leader that the Mafia has ever known, or will ever have for that matter... The "Don of Dons"
Mugz leadership potential was revealed back in the waning days of MDJOE's reign. Mugz had more time to fly back then and he used his time well learning all he could of the skies of Aces High. It wasn't long before he could hold is own in any of the fighters ( he is still to be feared in his Yak, Hurri, or dare I say it.... spit V! ), Bombing was a piece of cake, and strategy was the name of the game! At first Mugz missions were small, him and 1 or 2 mafioso would up B17's and cripple the enemies strats. Fuel ammo,radar, it didn't matter it all went down. Soon the Bishops were noticing that Mugz was hurting the enemy, and more and more people wanted to join. Soon Mugz was running missions 30+ strong, when Mugz ran a mission EVERYONE noticed !
About this time MDJOE was looking to step down as CO and had two candidates to choose from for his replacement, but real life got in the way and made what would have been a very difficult decision easy. Mugz had to go into semi-retirement, so Tzr was tapped to lead. 6 or 8 months later Mugz came back. Tzr asked him to lead a new wing called the "Wize Guys". The "Enforcer" and "Hitman" wings were pretty full up, and Tzr needed a "First Strike/ Scout" wing. To accomplish this Mugz took the "Wize Guys" to a H2H arena for some training. Before long The "Wize Guys" could de-ack a field in two passes, drop radar, and get out without losing a man or stirring up a hornets nest !
When Tzr stepped down, he tapped Mugz as the new CO. This caused a problem with a small faction in the squad causing them to split from the Mafia. Why they left is un-important, but what it did when they left was very important. The defection of these few members galvanized the rest of the squad to reassert their loyalty to Mugz and the rest of the squad! It was time to rebuild the squad, no, not "rebuild" but to reassert those things that make this squad great... Honor... Teamwork... and most of all Fun !
Recruitment and training where now the priorities. Under recruitment, the Mafia web page was ordered re-done. Mugz wanted everyone to know where everyone stood. Recruits could read what was expected of them ( a good attitude, honor, and the willingness to help out where its needed ), and in return they would be given leadership, training, missions, and a whole lot of fun flying with the best group around! Under training were many opportunities to learn the many little tricks of the game. Mugz was smart enough to know that he doesn't know it all about this game, so he set up a training group, having each member... who was good at that technique. show the others some tips and tricks. Training included "Tips and tricks of the AH notebook", "Wingman Tactics", "Bomber timing runs", as well as "Dive Bombing Tricks in the P38", though there are still some who just can't help slamming that thing into the ground !
That's why I call Mugz the "Don of Don's" he's every CO the mob has ever had rolled into one great leader ! ... and where he will lead them next??? .... ahhh but that's for another to tell !
And the story continues !
The underlined and bolded section points out that there was a rift created when Mugz was given leadership of the squad. Panman was a bit upset that he wasn't given the squad and really didn't like Mugz all that much. So he quit the squad and a few of his closer friends went with him and he created the "Regulators". At first it was his mission to make squad night miserable for Mugz and the Mafia, but that got old quick and everyone went on to just play the game and have fun. Panman quit the game about 6 months later.
....and so now you know the rest of the story.
As I have said, many many times there have always been hordes, and all teams horde. The problem is it is becoming the norm now. The only break you see in the hordes is the NOEs when we have an "island" map up then you see more NOE's because it is easier for hordlings to fly NOE over water than over mountains.
you gotta get outside more. :salute
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Tuesday nights my squad POTW has it's squad night. We can get up to 20 pigs online for that every Tuesday night. But, my CO hates being part of a mindless hoard. So POTW goes where our hoard isn't and picks a fight.
Hmmm... Twenty pilots flying together are a pretty significant population group at today's server numbers... Are you sure that the pigs aren't just becoming their own horde?
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Hmmm... Twenty pilots flying together are a pretty significant population group at today's server numbers... Are you sure that the pigs aren't just becoming their own horde?
Nope its a pig pile also rarely are all of us in one pile there will be multiple guys off doing other things.
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Hmmm... Twenty pilots flying together are a pretty significant population group at today's server numbers... Are you sure that the pigs aren't just becoming their own horde?
this coming from a guy in the "Rolling Thunder" who were pretty good at the horde mission back in the day! :neener:
I don't fly on Tuesdays....because I'm "outside" too much Blu so I can't say how the pigs run their ops. IF they pig pile on a single base ya they may be part of the problem. IF they pig pile on an opposing horde they are part of the solution. IF there is no horde to oppose..... highly unlikely these days .... and they split up and hit a couple bases at once, then again they are part of the solution.
I think the "leaders" of these big groups have the biggest and best chance of making the game more fun for everyone on BOTH sides, or for killing the fun along a whole front in the game.
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this coming from a guy in the "Rolling Thunder" who were pretty good at the horde mission back in the day! :neener:
Well we evolved.
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Well we evolved.
I have nothing but good things to say about Killrdan's crew of Pilots. Good people all the way around. :aok
:salute
way
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Interesting how we define a hoard, then we condemn it when a hoard is used as a tool the way we don't like.
If two airfields happen to furball with 20-30 players from both sides, we look at that as the classic iconoclastic air combat scenario Aces High is supposed to be. As long as no one decides to bring a hoard in to flatten one of the fields or a 25k fighter sweep hoard to put an end to the giant furball.
But, some will complain that if 1\3 of those two country's are engaged in a mindless gigantic furball, then that is horrible because it's a misplaced use of resources during that Oh so tiny window of community maximum numbers called "Prime Time". Still that's 50-60 players having fun and not hoarding a field to capture it by someone else's definition of a good hoard.
If 20-50 players mount up and decide to capture as many fields as possible in a short period of time. Then they have also changed in mindset from competitive fighter pilot, to "anything goes to achieve my goals". Base taking is not conducive to good sportsmanship because the act of taking a base require heartlessly trapping players like rats against the ground and slaughtering them. And so the trapped rats respond in kind with like desperation and vicious heartlessness. As a vicious cycle, bringing a bigger hoard is the most efficient tactic to slaughtering the vicious rats. It's also seductive to be part of because it's easy and safe. And where a lot of players gain their huge kills landed strings everyone oohs and ahhs them over.
Very seductive to be ooh'd and aah'd over. And can give newer players a confusing view of how the game is played. And allows self indulgent players to feed their risk adverse needs without paying a price as long as they can be part of a hoard.
For the general population capturing a field cannot happen without ruthlessly slaughtering the defenders. There is no fair way to force the defenders to stop defending other than destroying them. Yes you can drop their hangers. Half the time they spawn in or up from another field and continue to ruthlessly try to exterminate your capture group for daring to attack their property. After a decade of trial and error, the simple solution is to bring more numbers than they have and ruthlessly annihilate them. That's called war.
To complain about hoards is really to make an observation to the obvious that the nature of groups in our game has two primary personalities. Dr. Jekell and Mr. Hyde. You cannot take territory away from others without it being an act of war. Furballing is combat, base capturing is war with all of it's ugliness.
Hitech didn't make us ruthless scumbags when base capturing time rolls around. We followed our peers, our friends, and our squads and acted exactly like we saw them act. He may have tweeked the back end a bit concentrating our scumbagery in a single location over longer periods of time these days. But, we were always the scumbags we are, just in the past we came together in hoards and captured our fields faster. So our scumbaggery didn't evolve to the levels of douchbaggery we see today by metastasizing over stalled base captures hours on end.
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Hitech didn't make us ruthless scumbags when base capturing time rolls around. We followed our peers, our friends, and our squads and acted exactly like we saw them act.
Well we evolved.
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this coming from a guy in the "Rolling Thunder" who were pretty good at the horde mission back in the day! :neener:
I don't fly on Tuesdays....because I'm "outside" too much Blu so I can't say how the pigs run their ops. IF they pig pile on a single base ya they may be part of the problem. IF they pig pile on an opposing horde they are part of the solution. IF there is no horde to oppose..... highly unlikely these days .... and they split up and hit a couple bases at once, then again they are part of the solution.
I think the "leaders" of these big groups have the biggest and best chance of making the game more fun for everyone on BOTH sides, or for killing the fun along a whole front in the game.
Being a large squad some bases do get horded but we try to mitigate that by posting where we are going on 200....sometimes they up in larger numbers then we can handle and we get vulched/drove back...sometimes they up too few....sometimes it's just right and we get into a fight for the rest of the night :aok
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you gotta get outside more. :salute
You gotta stab your squaddies in the back less :rolleyes:
Nope its a pig pile also rarely are all of us in one pile there will be multiple guys off doing other things.
lol.
Well we evolved.
Dunno. In my time, i liked flying against the members of that squad.
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You gotta stab your squaddies in the back less :rolleyes:
lol.
Dunno. In my time, i liked flying against the members of that squad.
What do you mean by that? I didn't stab any squaddie in the back. I just told it like it was. All of the players mentioned no long play and everything that happened back then in 2005 is long ago forgiven and forgotten. The only reason I had that history, is because I was in charge of the squads web site for a long time and have back ups of everything.
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What do you mean by that? I didn't stab any squaddie in the back. I just told it like it was. All of the players mentioned no long play and everything that happened back then in 2005 is long ago forgiven and forgotten. The only reason I had that history, is because I was in charge of the squads web site for a long time and have back ups of everything.
Who's quote is standing above that line? ;)
Back when i was in the JG5, RedBull and me made a troll on midway for fun, but he ratted it out. We both left the JG5.
Exuse me if i was misunderstandable.
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Dunno. In my time, i liked flying against the members of that squad.
I always enjoy going a few turns with you, bud.
As for Rolling Thunder, our outlook on how we best enjoy the game evolved over time. We basically stopped recruiting, slimmed down the ranks, and eventually merged with the Lynchmob. Now we are the Thundermob.
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Who's quote is standing above that line? ;)
Back when i was in the JG5, RedBull and me made a troll on midway for fun, but he ratted it out. We both left the JG5.
Exuse me if i was misunderstandable.
and proud of it, you tried to waste time trolling on the general forum like little girls, grow up.. You don't see redbull cry about it for the last 6 months like you have deb. Sorry someone in JG5 had to play grownup. I've never met someone who can stay as butt hurt as you, over something so trivial. If the end result of me having to call you out was you leaving because you couldn't man up, then good riddance.
For those who don't know what he is referring to, this is what I said.
"I can post vid proving redbull flys under the name Nyquil. .. stop playing dumb fellas. Midway called it and nailed it. So stop lying deb.. its boring to read. Just because you don't own the account doesn't mean you haven't flown as Nquil, redbull. Now be done with it."
Had to put it like this instead of quoting myself because that old thread has been locked. :salute
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Redbull never flew JG5 as Nyquil. He left before he was shading.
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Here we go. Another bad-willing angry tard on the board. Well done Dolby, see what you have done with my squad of dreams.
And keep telling me that i have left because i was an elitist dyck.
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This is what you told me Deb.
Idk. I just didnt felt comfortable with all the folks i dont even know.
And yes I have broken my rule about posting PMs, but you are like a dog with rabies; you wont stop biting down.
Deb to use your own words, you are a bad-willing and angry tard.
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Here we go. Another bad-willing angry tard on the board. Well done Dolby, see what you have done with my squad of dreams.
And keep telling me that i have left because i was an elitist dyck.
Uhhh...... You are a just a bit, Debrody :lol.
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This is what you told me Deb.
And yes I have broken my rule about posting PMs, but you are like a dog with rabies; you wont stop biting down.
Deb to use your own words, you are a bad-willing and angry tard.
Me? Mmmkay. Thanks for the time you spent with me. I regret every second i was in your squad. Sorry. Have a nice day.
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(http://pinkbluelovescute.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Bunny-eating-popcorn.gif)
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Simply by reading these forums one can see how spirited the players in our community are and can potentially become. Tapping into this visa the frustration of denied gratification is how you keep players returning to a stalled base capture for hours on end. Pretty simple and it works. Negative motivation is cheaper and simpler than positive motivation. The emotional results are like drinking or drugs. But, you walk a fine line controlling the consequences because of how volatile people potential can become under stress before anyone realizes it.
It might be time to dial back the requirements to capturing bases a little and swing the pendulum in favor of the capture. It's obvious we have no lack of ability at defending by virtue of the community's current levels of internal infighting and antagonism towards each other. A hoard that works taking a field is one that doesn't stall out for hours each day over a single field. Our current evolution of hoards is large stagnant groups of players stabbing each other repetitiously in the back for hours on end. Then ongoing acrimonious, vial personal attacks in the forums blaming each other for the douchbaggery our current evolution of hoards has created because the steady state of game play is stalled base captures.
I seem to remember the utopian goal was to create combat opposed to avoidance. Unintended consequences don't care about utopian goals where human nature and passions reside.
We went through this a few years back when the defenders were being frustrated into similar acrimonious conduct in our forums. And our hoards were happily avoiding each other and rolling territory at will. Our hoards still avoid each other but, are stalled and acrimoniously frustrated along with those defending against them for hours on end doing very little but douchbaggery. So today to break the stalemate, bring a super mega hoard. I don't think we have enough guys for that anymore as the next hoard evolution.
If you want the ability for small groups to break off and do small group things with a reasonable chance of quick success. You will have to accept then that the hoard will roll territory as a consequence of easing back the capture requirements. Large frustrated groups of people can only exist together politely with each other for a limited shelf life. Then the frustrations become the driving force in their decisions illusory or real.
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Me? Mmmkay. Thanks for the time you spent with me. I regret every second i was in your squad. Sorry. Have a nice day.
(http://thabto.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/have-a-nice-day-not.jpg?w=500)