Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: wpeters on December 04, 2013, 01:51:31 PM
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Why I rarely use the M4. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ns6l7sCoWX4 I think I would have rather been a grunt. :bolt:
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Sobering.... good post.
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Thanks for sharing, but this is not new information to most of us. The discussion on the merits of the M4 Sherman can go on and on with some simple points: it was a well designed infantry support tank, it was reliable, but it was simply outclassed by the German tank (arguably the best in the world). Once the Germans up-gunned to the Panzer IV F2 (or even the 5cm L/60 on the Pzr III J) there was no comparison. The M4 Sherman AP ability (75mm) was left behind. Once the US 76mm came in to play at least it could match the Germans shot for shot against the Panzer IV platform, but beyond that that it was suicide to go 1 vs 1 vs the Panther or Tiger. Hence, the reliance on superior numbers and M18's. :D
Against the Japanese it dominated the battlefield. So again, there is more to the story than just "the Sherman sucks".
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Just another example of the bravery shown by the young men on all sides of that conflict! :salute
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Thanks for sharing, but this is not new information to most of us. The discussion on the merits of the M4 Sherman can go on and on with some simple points: it was a well designed infantry support tank, it was reliable, but it was simply outclassed by the German tank (arguably the best in the world). Once the Germans up-gunned to the Panzer IV F2 (or even the 5cm L/60 on the Pzr III J) there was no comparison. The M4 Sherman AP ability (75mm) was left behind. Once the US 76mm came in to play at least it could match the Germans shot for shot against the Panzer IV platform, but beyond that that it was suicide to go 1 vs 1 vs the Panther or Tiger. Hence, the reliance on superior numbers and M18's. :D
Against the Japanese it dominated the battlefield. So again, there is more to the story than just "the Sherman sucks".
True but still wouldnt want to fight in one knowing that your predecessors leg was blown off in there from one shot.. I mean I would rather be the guy escaping from the panther than the commader with the leg blown of or much worse the guys still stuck inside . I will argue with you about the TIger and the Panther being the best tank. I would say the T-34-85 Was the best of the war in the sense it was exremely versitle and was easy to mass produce. They were advanced beyond the germans till the Panther and Tigerl came out.
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Wow...
I can't even....
The ending....
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wow.. :eek:
what an ending.
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**Spoilers from video you have been warned!***
Can someone explain what happened at the last sighting of the loader? Did the round ignite? Or was the round/loader hit with the third round?
<<S>> to all who served.
:salute
:pray
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**Spoilers from video you have been warned!***
Can someone explain what happened at the last sighting of the loader? Did the round ignite? Or was the round/loader hit with the third round?
<<S>> to all who served.
:salute
:pray
I dont know but it looked like it clobbered him.
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**Spoilers from video you have been warned!***
Can someone explain what happened at the last sighting of the loader? Did the round ignite? Or was the round/loader hit with the third round?
<<S>> to all who served.
:salute
:pray
Believe he was hit.
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I really hate the history channel in providing such FALSE information time and time again. Its better to pick up a real book then watch that brainwashing garbage over and over again.
The Sherman was a good tank, just as good as any other german tank. ARmor and firepower don't matter because the first rule of combat always decides the battle - He who see's first - decides the battle. Sherman was called a Ronson lighter, guess what? Yes its fuel was flammable, however the Panther had an even more volatile fuel that would burn even faster and harder. Later on the Sherman corrected one problem with wet storage, still its fuel was bad but no where near a Panthers.
Yes a Sherman cannot go 1vs1 with a tiger on open ground, fact is however Shermans have a 3:2 kill ratio over Panthers. Yes 2 Shermans lost for every 3 Panther tanks.
This argument has gone on forever, same as the "P-51 greatest!!! FIGHTER!!! EVER!!! or the Spitfire! whichever floats peoples boats.
I've never read a book that an infantry man said "wow those 51s saved our tulips today", its always the P-47, P-38 or Typhoons who did the dirty work.
Again its the history channel giving information that they clearly have not researched - time and time again, just playing off on people not knowing anything about the subject.
Kind of like Fox news or etc for politics - just more dumber.
Look for "Tiger Tank" history channel on Youtube, its the same "OMG GERMAN ARMOR!! INVISIBLE!!!" bias attitude along with "Sherman sucked!"
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I really hate the history channel in providing such FALSE information time and time again. Its better to pick up a real book then watch that brainwashing garbage over and over again.
The Sherman was a good tank, just as good as any other german tank. ARmor and firepower don't matter because the first rule of combat always decides the battle - He who see's first - decides the battle. Sherman was called a Ronson lighter, guess what? Yes its fuel was flammable, however the Panther had an even more volatile fuel that would burn even faster and harder. Later on the Sherman corrected one problem with wet storage, still its fuel was bad but no where near a Panthers.
Yes a Sherman cannot go 1vs1 with a tiger on open ground, fact is however Shermans have a 3:2 kill ratio over Panthers. Yes 2 Shermans lost for every 3 Panther tanks.
This argument has gone on forever, same as the "P-51 greatest!!! FIGHTER!!! EVER!!! or the Spitfire! whichever floats peoples boats.
I've never read a book that an infantry man said "wow those 51s saved our tulips today", its always the P-47, P-38 or Typhoons who did the dirty work.
Again its the history channel giving information that they clearly have not researched - time and time again, just playing off on people not knowing anything about the subject.
Kind of like Fox news or etc for politics - just more dumber.
Your talking statistics, I am talking survivablity.. How many more sherman crew members killed to a panthers. What killed that take was 3 shots and still most of the crew got away. I dont care if my tank wins more battles. What matters is if I can survive the battle
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Butcher...been in a lot of battles aye?
Many factors play into winning battles......Terrain, Combat Power, air support, even morale. To say first the fight is decided by who sees who first is very ignorant.
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Many factors play into winning battles......Terrain, Combat Power, air support, even morale. To say first the fight is decided by who sees who first is very ignorant.
Yes Junky there are thousands of factors to winning a battle, you are correct that much.
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Well it had a pretty good run,,,for being such a sorry piece of junk! :bhead
From Wiki
After the end of the Second World War, large numbers of surplus Shermans were supplied to other nations, but primarily to South America and the Middle East. Israel became the largest post-war user of Sherman tanks, conducting extensive modifications to keep them in front line service right up into the early 1970s as tanks, mobile artillery pieces, armored ambulances and more. Many saw action in the 1973 October War. Similar modifications and purchases of Israeli-modified Shermans were done in South America where they served on as the last fighting Shermans right up until 1989.
It was a medium tank,, it was all we had,, and it pretty much did the job!
In the game, I love it,, better optics in the 76 than the panzer, higher rate of fire in the 75mm variant,, and the best HE round of all tanks in game,,, It is a bit to tall ,and easily spotted But if you know what your doing with it,, it's not hard to get lots of kills with.
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The key word is "reliable", and besides that Shermans tended to be quite good at ambushing.
And why bother thinking about a Sherman alone against a lone Tiger, if they found themselves alone in the fist place they're asking for it. :angel:
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Panther was spawn camping :devil
I've been on and around armour since 1993. Yes in this day and age it makes all the difference who sees the enemy first, but when you needed to drive 1400 yards within the enemies effective range and then manouvre behind him for a shot, it really doesn't matter if you see the guy first, you can be fairly sure he will spot you as you travel nigh on a full mile in order to take your shot :old:
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The key word is "reliable", and besides that Shermans tended to be quite good at ambushing.
And why bother thinking about a Sherman alone against a lone Tiger, if they found themselves alone in the fist place they're asking for it. :angel:
The tank wasn't good at ambushing....the men operating them were good at setting them...through intelligence gathered by scouts to get them in the right place to the crews being well rehearsed in their jobs. Made do with what they had, similar to the Brits who flew during the BOB. Discipline and Direction.
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Hey All,
Doctrine played a role in the reasoning behind the design. Tank Destroyers were supposed to kill the enemy tanks. The Sherman was an 'exploit' or 'pursuit' tank. As with many things in this world, doctrine is a guide, not 'truth'.
Bottom line, the Sherman was forced into a role it was not designed for or intended for.
However, it didn't matter in the end.
Regards,
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the germans always believe their tanks were superior to the americans and they were. they said time and time again that their tanks were so superior that it would take 3 american tanks to kill 1 german tank. they also found that the problem they faced is that the americans always seem to bring 5 tanks for every german tank around.
semp
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there are thousands of factors
Just one of me, as far as I know! :bolt:
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Woah, woah, woah now..... Clearly that video is flawed. Not 30 secs in it shows a tank coming through a hedgerow. As any player of Aces High knows that is impossible. :neener:
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Woah, woah, woah now..... Clearly that video is flawed. Not 30 secs in it shows a tank coming through a hedgerow. As any player of Aces High knows that is impossible. :neener:
What about the Tiger being stopped by a tiny little tree?
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What about the Tiger being stopped by a tiny little tree?
there was an even tinier little chinese man that stopped many tanks dead on their tracks.
semp
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there was an even tinier little chinese man that stopped many tanks dead on their tracks.
semp
Oh yes! Bravest man ever caught on film
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During attack, tankers are more afraid of mines than both AT-guns and other tanks, with a good reason.
German ww2 heavy tanks where exceptional, because even when armour where penetrated, they had good chance of survive to fight anohter day.
What brought down the German numbers against other countries was that when you where fighting a terrain-losing battle you will be forced to destroy the incapacitated tank instead of recovering it.
Remember fighting at 10:1 odds always make you look good regardless if you fight as a grunt, in air planes, or in a tank.
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Its a outrage Butcher :old:
Dont you dare say wikidiot is full of nonsense as well :old:
If its on TV its against the law to lie :old:
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Death Traps by Belton Y. Cooper is an excellent read. You can pick it up for the Kindle for $6.00.
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_0_13?url=search-alias%3Ddigital-text&field-keywords=belton+cooper&sprefix=belton+cooper%2Cdigital-text%2C255&rh=n%3A133140011%2Ck%3Abelton+cooper (http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_0_13?url=search-alias%3Ddigital-text&field-keywords=belton+cooper&sprefix=belton+cooper%2Cdigital-text%2C255&rh=n%3A133140011%2Ck%3Abelton+cooper)
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During attack, tankers are more afraid of mines than both AT-guns and other tanks, with a good reason.
German ww2 heavy tanks where exceptional, because even when armour where penetrated, they had good chance of survive to fight anohter day.
All that armor and 2,000 yard range shots don't matter when in Kursk a couple of Tiger tanks were stopped by a simple 14mm bolt action anti tank rifle. They would shoot the driver, whether these stories are true or not I've never been able to confirm it but I have read a few of these stories from kursk.
I think it was done in less than 250 yards, probably a ton closer because of accuracy needed, I do know the Fins did it quite a number of times against Russian tanks.
Then again its possible since most of the tanks were destroyed by russian anti tank guns rather then tanks (and mines).
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the germans always believe their tanks were superior to the americans and they were. they said time and time again that their tanks were so superior that it would take 3 american tanks to kill 1 german tank. they also found that the problem they faced is that the americans always seem to bring 5 tanks for every german tank around.
semp
\
I think it's been pretty well established over the years the Germans were far ahead of the Allies in respect to the choice quality of their equipment. :-)
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Balls required to drive a Sherman in WW2: Brass.
Balls required to actually take that Sherman into combat in WW2: Steel.
Unbelievable how those tankers actually signed up to drive in those things, and in another year i'll be doing the same except with an M1 Abrams.
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(http://media.screened.com/uploads/1/14902/515671-ggr_brass_balls.jpg)