Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Custom Skins => Topic started by: GhostCDB on December 08, 2013, 10:38:34 PM
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Flown by Major Hannes Trautloft, Stab/JG54, Siverskaya/USSR, January 1942
(http://i.imgur.com/S9jJXwR.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/pgRerYX.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/BqKstPt.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/62FprNV.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/OlTLv3F.jpg)
(Fixes : Fixed the shading of the shaders on the elevators and rudders. Also fixed the little HUB near the engine where it is green, changed it to RLM21 as it should be. Also decreased the transparency on the dirt and oil spots as I thought they were too strong.)
It is amazing what you catch after you take screenshots of the aircraft.
:salute
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:O
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OOOO! Pretty! :aok
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Nice work :salute
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:aok
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Sorry to say this Ratio, but although your skins are nice, the panel lines look too dark.
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The F4 is my favorite 109, keep up the good work Ghost :aok
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Sorry to say this Ratio, but although your skins are nice, the panel lines look too dark.
same here
look like Titanic panel lines :D
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I personally like the strong panel line line look. It's all a matter of taste. :salute
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same here
look like Titanic panel lines :D
:lol Yeah indeed.
Looks ridiculous.
Where the heck are you coming up with Green Stab markings? JG54 Stab is White. Every wartime photo of this bird shows white just like every other Stab JG54 ride.
Please post your source material.
EDIT: Please don't direct me here: http://luftwaffeinprofile.se/Hannes%20Trautloft.html
That's not a source. Another example of using someone else's fictitious profile pack instead of real war time photo's.
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Looks good, but like your winter G-6, you continued the whitewash under the aircraft. 109F's in Jg 54 came with factory schemes of either RLM 70,71,65 or 74,75,76. The whitewash was applied to the top and sides of aircraft leaving the base visible on bottom, as well as around the canopy. See this picture of this aircraft.
(http://www.asisbiz.com/il2/Bf-109F/Bf-109F-JG54-(-+-)-Kath/images/Bf-109F4-Stab-JG54-+-Otto-Kath-Rjelbitzi-Russia-1941-42-01.jpg)
Where the heck are you coming up with Green Stab markings? JG54 Stab is White. Every wartime photo of this bird shows white just like every other Stab JG54 ride.
See, pic above. Stab markings match the green shade of the heart emblem.
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:lol Yeah indeed.
Looks ridiculous.
Where the heck are you coming up with Green Stab markings? JG54 Stab is White. Every wartime photo of this bird shows white just like every other Stab JG54 ride.
Please post your source material.
EDIT: Please don't direct me here: http://luftwaffeinprofile.se/Hannes%20Trautloft.html
That's not a source. Another example of using someone else's fictitious profile pack instead of real war time photo's.
More Luftwaffe Fighter Aircraft in Profile
Claes Sundin & Christer Bergstrong
A SCHIFFER MILITARY HISTORY BOOK
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Looks good, but like your winter G-6, you continued the whitewash under the aircraft. 109F's in Jg 54 came with factory schemes of either RLM 70,71,65 or 74,75,76. The whitewash was applied to the top and sides of aircraft leaving the base visible on bottom, as well as around the canopy. See this picture of this aircraft.
(http://www.asisbiz.com/il2/Bf-109F/Bf-109F-JG54-(-+-)-Kath/images/Bf-109F4-Stab-JG54-+-Otto-Kath-Rjelbitzi-Russia-1941-42-01.jpg)
See, pic above. Stab markings match the green shade of the heart emblem.
I did what you said with the Mottling but it just looks the same, I am not understanding what you are telling me to do. Actually really confused, cause when I did it I noticed it looks exactly like the G-6 and I don't know how to make it as if you are asking me to.
EDIT : I used the same image from the history book that I have.
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Devil...that's black not green.
Whitewash Stab always went from White to Black. It's not going to show the same shade as the Balkenkreuz, which is original, and not applied over whitewash.
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Devil...that's black not green.
Whitewash Stab always went from White to Black. It's not going to show the same shade as the Balkenkreuz, which is original, and not applied over whitewash.
If it were black wouldn't it match the color of the iron cross black?
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glad to see somebody put the correct green on this aircraft...can you imaging white numbers on a whitewashed aircraft,lol...thank goodness devil posted the picture.
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If it were black wouldn't it match the color of the iron cross black?
Read the post again.
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Read the post again.
:lol
Well, here is my PDF file. Feel free to make changes where you see applicable.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6idoZKc0FideXM5Mm5xcG8wYWs/edit?usp=sharing
NOTE : It will show up as blurry in the google viewer, but if you open it in Photoshop it should show up as the correct resolution.
Have fun :cheers:
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Sorry to say this Ratio, but although your skins are nice, the panel lines look too dark.
I will tone them down, thanks for the feedback. :aok
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:O
:aok
The F4 is my favorite 109, keep up the good work Ghost :aok
Thank You :cheers:
same here
look like Titanic panel lines :D
:aok
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glad to see somebody put the correct green on this aircraft...can you imaging white numbers on a whitewashed aircraft,lol...thank goodness devil posted the picture.
Another learned historian. :lol
(https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSlqy1Zb3b7sTfQHSfvVrh4YdScfMH9tsI0BR12_3UYbDrIfV0V)
When Whitewash was applied over the entire top and sides....Black was used. Seen on his Fw here:
(http://www.asisbiz.com/il2/Fw-190A/Fw-190A-JG54-((-+-Trautloft/images/Focke%20Wulf-Fw-190A4-Stab-JG54-((-+-Hannes-Trautloft-Russia-1942-01.jpg)
You all carry on though. We should have a hanger full of Il2 cartoon skins soon.
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I did what you said with the Mottling but it just looks the same, I am not understanding what you are telling me to do. Actually really confused, cause when I did it I noticed it looks exactly like the G-6 and I don't know how to make it as if you are asking me to.
EDIT : I used the same image from the history book that I have.
Imagine looking at this aircraft from the bottom, it will look the same with the whitewash as it did before the whitewash was painted on. In short, the bottom is not white, it is either RLM 65 or RLM 76, depending on the base scheme. Given that the canopy bars were not given a whitewash, then you can make a reasonable guess on the scheme underneath. My guess is that this aircraft came from the tory in the 70,71,65 scheme. Therefore, you should paint the bottom of this skin with RLM 65, and the area around the canopy would be RLM 70. Hope that better explains what I've been getting at.
Devil...that's black not green.
Whitewash Stab always went from White to Black. It's not going to show the same shade as the Balkenkreuz, which is original, and not applied over whitewash.
Sorry Stampf, but I disagree. If the stab marking were black, they would be a closer match to the Balkenkreuz. Instead, they are nearly identical in shade and opacity to the green heart. I have no doubt these two aircraft wore green markings, and if I skinned it, it would also have green markings. The reference photo provides enough evidence of this, that for whatever reason green was used.
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Imagine looking at this aircraft from the bottom, it will look the same with the whitewash as it did before the whitewash was painted on. In short, the bottom is not white, it is either RLM 65 or RLM 76, depending on the base scheme. Given that the canopy bars were not given a whitewash, then you can make a reasonable guess on the scheme underneath. My guess is that this aircraft came from the tory in the 70,71,65 scheme. Therefore, you should paint the bottom of this skin with RLM 65, and the area around the canopy would be RLM 70. Hope that better explains what I've been getting at.
Oh alright I understand a lot more clear now. Thank you for explaining that. I feel like a noob. :rolleyes:
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Sorry Stampf, but I disagree. If the stab marking were black, they would be a closer match to the Balkenkreuz. Instead, they are nearly identical in shade and opacity to the green heart. I have no doubt these two aircraft wore green markings, and if I skinned it, it would also have green markings. The reference photo provides enough evidence of this, that for whatever reason green was used.
You could be right bro, but it would be a one off occurance. Do you have any other photo's of that plane in Whitewash?
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You could be right bro, but it would be a one off occurrence. Do you have any other photo's of that plane in Whitewash?
He has the same photo that was given in the book I used as a reference.
Out of the four books I now have, I couldn't find any other photos of the A/C in black and white.
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Not of Trautlofts, but of the other plane in my picture.
(http://www.asisbiz.com/il2/Bf-109F/Bf-109F-JG54-(-+-)-Kath/images/Bf-109F4-Stab-JG54-+-Otto-Kath-Rjelbitzi-Russia-1941-42-02.jpg)
This picture can also be found in "Jg 54: A Photographic History of the Grunherzjager" by Werner Held, with Hannes Trautloft, and Ekkehard Bob.
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Not of Trautlofts, but of the other plane in my picture.
(http://www.asisbiz.com/il2/Bf-109F/Bf-109F-JG54-(-+-)-Kath/images/Bf-109F4-Stab-JG54-+-Otto-Kath-Rjelbitzi-Russia-1941-42-02.jpg)
Well that certainly does look green.
My appologies are in order here, though I can not imagine why green would be used over the standard black.
There is no explanation given in your book Ratio?
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Well that certainly does look green.
My appologies are in order here, though I can not imagine why green would be used over the standard black.
There is no explanation given in your book Ratio?
No problem with me Stampf. You are one of the most knowledgeable Luft guys on this board, and I would tend to agree with anything you say on the subject without question. Of course in this case I happened to hold the trump cards. :salute
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No problem with me Stampf. You are one of the most knowledgeable Luft guys on this board, and I would tend to agree with anything you say on the subject without question. Of course in this case I happened to hold the trump cards. :salute
:lol
No text explanations in that book about why green was applied ? Does it state "Green" ?
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I actually just read on that, none of them said green. I do though have a book in German, if anyone speaks german here then maybe the description of this skin can be translated.
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:lol
No text explanations in that book about why green was applied ? Does it state "Green" ?
None whatsoever. These pictures, along with another showing Trautloft's other winter 109F, used a single caption referring to the use of winter camouflage on airfield equipment.
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None whatsoever. These pictures, along with another showing Trautloft's other winter 109F, used a single caption referring to the use of winter camouflage on airfield equipment.
White Green or Black on his other F?
All Trautloft's 109's in my inventory show White/Black. His 190's too.
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Partial winter whitewash, white markings. It's the one we have already in game, the so called "cow" skin.
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Partial winter whitewash, white markings. It's the one we have already in game, the so called "cow" skin.
Heaven forbid....White on White... ;)
Thought so.
Green is very odd Devil. Photo taken on special occasion? Does anything mention an award ceremony like receiving the Ritterkruez...etc...? No other text?
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It is odd, I'll give you that. My book give no indication as to why green was used, or even who the pilots of any of the planes were. Here is the caption verbatim from pg. 106: "Rjelbitzi - for reasons of camouflage the warming tent and vehicles are covered with tarpaulins. The aircraft parked in the foreground are being fueled and serviced."
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Ghost, something else just occurred to me. You're using the later Stab green heart with the gruppe emblems inside. That wasn't introduced until late '42. Use a simple green heart instead.
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It is odd, I'll give you that. My book give no indication as to why green was used, or even who the pilots of any of the planes were. Here is the caption verbatim from pg. 106: "Rjelbitzi - for reasons of camouflage the warming tent and vehicles are covered with tarpaulins. The aircraft parked in the foreground are being fueled and serviced."
Something is not right. Trautloft scored no victories from Nov 41 to March 42. The later recorded in his usual F-2. (White Stab of course).
I'll find the answer if I try hard enough...and get back to you. I can find no evidence Hannes Trautloft flew this aircraft. Somewhere, sometime, someone attributed him to this picture.
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Something is not right. Trautloft scored no victories from Nov 41 to March 42. The later recorded in his usual F-2. (White Stab of course).
I'll find the answer if I try hard enough...and get back to you. I can find no evidence Hannes Trautloft flew this aircraft. Somewhere, sometime, someone attributed him to this picture.
I'm getting this impression as well. Seeing as Trautloft himself contributed to the book himself, I'd figure that he'd make mention of another of his planes. It must have been flown by somebody else.
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I'm getting this impression as well. Seeing as Trautloft himself contributed to the book himself, I'd figure that he'd make mention of another of his planes. It must have been flown by somebody else.
Especially one as unique as the one proposed. I have no doubt that is not a Trautloft ride. If you wish me to continue the investigation I will Devil, otherwise I will let it go.
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It's really up to Ghost. I hope he knows that you don't have to know who the pilot was to submit a skin. I must say though, I am interested in the reason behind the green markings, more so than who the pilot was.
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It's really up to Ghost. I hope he knows that you don't have to know who the pilot was to submit a skin. I must say though, I am interested in the reason behind the green markings, more so than who the pilot was.
I really don't care about the skin aspect at all. Just the History.
Between you and me... I submit that those are JG54 Stab training rides (that were once kombat used) utilizing green in winter over usual white to differentiate from Kombat Stab (White/Black) and this is because 3 Div.Flieger-SchulDivision was based at Siverskaya temporarily in the Winter of 41/42.
I can not prove this beyond any doubt with my current inventory/sources...but I will continue if you wish me too. I am certain that photo was included in the book as just an example of 54th winter rides...hence Trautloft makes no mention of it being his plane, nor does the caption or text.
Someone (prob. a profiler) assumed such...that is all.
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(http://i.imgur.com/6GD9Amn.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/y2r8NWR.png)
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(http://i.imgur.com/pEJi5SE.jpg)
Found on page 38 and 39
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We understand the source Ratio.
Just submit that it is wrong. Even the profile is wrong, as Devil pointed out...It shows a later version of the Green Heart. That should put eveything in question to you. That plane does not fit anywhere into Johannes Trautloft's very complete and public service record. That's all.
Sorry is I come off like an arse initially. Not my intention.
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Skin Deleted.
:salute
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I wouldn't delete it. Obviously a unique example.
I would just clean up the panel lines (my pref) and submit as Stab/JG54 without a known pilot's name.
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I wouldn't delete it. Obviously a unique example.
I would just clean up the panel lines (my pref) and submit as Stab/JG54 without a known pilot's name.
This.