Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: hotcoffe on December 20, 2013, 10:00:25 AM
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dot command to dumb excess fuel
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dot command to dumb excess fuel
I never had the impression our fuel was that smart at all...
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Ignoring the misspelling, no. Very few WWII aircraft, none of them fighters so far as I recall, had the ability to dump fuel.
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-1 I only use smart fuel. :bolt:
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We have this already but it is not a dot command. You take a drop tank, fuel your bird to fighting weight, then drop the tank just before you engage. Works really well, and it is historical. Cool eh?
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If anything, I'd like to see it to where you have to take 100% fuel before you can use drop tanks. :)
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We have this already but it is not a dot command. You take a drop tank, fuel your bird to fighting weight, then drop the tank just before you engage. Works really well, and it is historical. Cool eh?
I like this tactic. And you say it is historical. Do you have documentation? I ask because we get remarks like Volron's wishing that you could only take drop tanks if you are already carrying 100% fuel. I would like to see documentation showing that some planes flew sorties using drop tanks, with less than 100% internal fuel.
Even without the documentation to back it up, there is no reason to require 100% fuel before using drop tanks. Even if it was never done, it is still possible to do it, and that makes it a legitimate tactic.
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Send your fuel-tanks to a Florida public school then and you'll have your wish granted...
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Send your fuel-tanks to a Wisconsin public school then and you'll have your wish granted...
Fixed that for ya...
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Quoting one test pilot
The only case you have too much fuel is when you on fire
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+1 to be able to dump internal excess fuel.
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+1 to be able to dump internal excess fuel.
Sorry, but WWII fighters couldn't do that.
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yep yep yep--there is a way to dump excess fuel......................... .....................get a wing shot off.hehehe :airplane:
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Another wish for the ability to game the game. *sigh* First, aircraft didn't just dump fuel. They horded as much as they could for reasons many players can't seem to grasp.
May I suggest for anyone who really thinks that it makes much of a difference, as in thin red line/life or death difference, in the performance of the plane you're in to seriously stop and think about your ability as a player-pilot. If dumping fuel in you wee little La7 from 75% to 25% keeps you alive... or you *think* it keeps you alive then you're drastically over estimating the ability of an aircraft to compensate for your lack of suckage in terms of ACM's and survivability.
FWIW, I think DT's should not be an option unless 100% fuel is taken, and I think an aircraft's ability to take only 25% should be reconsidered, up it to 50% I say.
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Another wish for the ability to game the game. *sigh* First, aircraft didn't just dump fuel. They horded as much as they could for reasons many players can't seem to grasp.
May I suggest for anyone who really thinks that it makes much of a difference, as in thin red line/life or death difference, in the performance of the plane you're in to seriously stop and think about your ability as a player-pilot. If dumping fuel in you wee little La7 from 75% to 25% keeps you alive... or you *think* it keeps you alive then you're drastically over estimating the ability of an aircraft to compensate for your lack of suckage in terms of ACM's and survivability.
FWIW, I think DT's should not be an option unless 100% fuel is taken, and I think an aircraft's ability to take only 25% should be reconsidered, up it to 50% I say.
I don't need anyone telling me how much fuel I am allowed or required to carry. You are correct that during the war aircraft did fly with much more fuel however they also flew extensive missions, not sure about you but I don't regularly fly multiple hour sorties.
That said, dumping excess fuel: -1
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Another wish for the ability to game the game. *sigh* First, aircraft didn't just dump fuel. They horded as much as they could for reasons many players can't seem to grasp.
May I suggest for anyone who really thinks that it makes much of a difference, as in thin red line/life or death difference, in the performance of the plane you're in to seriously stop and think about your ability as a player-pilot. If dumping fuel in you wee little La7 from 75% to 25% keeps you alive... or you *think* it keeps you alive then you're drastically over estimating the ability of an aircraft to compensate for your lack of suckage in terms of ACM's and survivability.
FWIW, I think DT's should not be an option unless 100% fuel is taken, and I think an aircraft's ability to take only 25% should be reconsidered, up it to 50% I say.
Good points. :aok Out in the real life of flying fighters a pilot can't have too much fuel, unless he's on fire. Speed is life and having more fuel enables more opportunity for speed. Fighter pilots will take all the fuel they can carry to include externals. When it's time to dance, blow the tanks and get on with it. :salute
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So you have 2 spits traveling at same speed and alt but 1 has 3/4 of a tank of fuel and the other has 1/2! which plane has more "E"????
:salute
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So you have 2 spits traveling at same speed and alt but 1 has 3/4 of a tank of fuel and the other has 1/2! which plane has more "E"????
:salute
well the more fuel you have,the more you can convert to energy.
semp
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well the more fuel you have,the more you can convert to energy.
semp
True but also it has more weight! However I was being silly and you got the correct answer! Most dont even consider this. If your life was on the line you'd want every drop of fuel your crate could carry.
I fly in the TA mostly,I almost always use full fuel and/or a DT on my plane. I beleive if you learn to handle and fly the plane at or near max weight,you'll think your cheating when you get it down to fighting weight! Since the mains burn fuel twice as fast as the TA you get lighter at a much quicker rate and thus benefit from the pracrice quicker.
YMMV.
:salute
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True but also it has more weight! However I was being silly and you got the correct answer! Most dont even consider this. If your life was on the line you'd want every drop of fuel your crate could carry.
I fly in the TA mostly,I almost always use full fuel and/or a DT on my plane. I beleive if you learn to handle and fly the plane at or near max weight,you'll think your cheating when you get it down to fighting weight! Since the mains burn fuel twice as fast as the TA you get lighter at a much quicker rate and thus benefit from the pracrice quicker.
YMMV.
:salute
I did notice you were being silly, so I thought i would join in :D.
semp
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I believe Saburo Sakai commented on feeling sorry for the Bf109 pilots in the Battle of Britain because they had to focus on fuel so much that they couldn't focus on the fighting.
Puma44,
The problem with DTs is that, on some aircraft, they leave shackles behind that cause drag. The Mossie loses 4mph off of its top speed due to those shackles still being there after the DTs are gone.
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Puma44,
The problem with DTs is that, on some aircraft, they leave shackles behind that cause drag. The Mossie loses 4mph off of its top speed due to those shackles still being there after the DTs are gone.
Just like in the real world. I'm very aware of how external stores are mounted, what's left when the stores are jettisoned, and the minimal drag penalties remaining. If a pilot is worried about a 4 knot drag penalty to win a fight, he's got much bigger things to worry about.
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Doesn't the current .dumbexcessfuel command add drop tanks?
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Just like in the real world. I'm very aware of how external stores are mounted, what's left when the stores are jettisoned, and the minimal drag penalties remaining. If a pilot is worried about a 4 knot drag penalty to win a fight, he's got much bigger things to worry about.
It all adds up. If 4mph doesn't matter, neither does 10mph, nor 25mph and so on.
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It all adds up. If 4mph doesn't matter, neither does 10mph, nor 25mph and so on.
I disagree. There are a lot of things that attribute to the success or failure of a plane/mission/fight, and the loss of 4mph of top speed in a Mossi is far different than the loss of 225mph, or even 10. As it stands, if the Mossi loses 10-20 mph of top speed then a great many more planes can catch it. The loss of 4 mph is not much to worry about. Acceleration isn't really affected, nor is turn or roll at least not in a noticeable amount.
I think Puma hit the nail on the head: if a player is so worried about 4 mph or less in loss of top speed they have much bigger things to worry about. I shake my head every time I see some poor kool-aid drinker dumping their rear gun ammo in a 110, etc, because they think it gives them an advantage. I say if they are in such a tight spot where the 120 lbs of less weight is needed to keep them alive then they should not have been in that situation to begin with.
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I disagree. There are a lot of things that attribute to the success or failure of a plane/mission/fight, and the loss of 4mph of top speed in a Mossi is far different than the loss of 225mph, or even 10. As it stands, if the Mossi loses 10-20 mph of top speed then a great many more planes can catch it. The loss of 4 mph is not much to worry about. Acceleration isn't really affected, nor is turn or roll at least not in a noticeable amount.
I think Puma hit the nail on the head: if a player is so worried about 4 mph or less in loss of top speed they have much bigger things to worry about. I shake my head every time I see some poor kool-aid drinker dumping their rear gun ammo in a 110, etc, because they think it gives them an advantage. I say if they are in such a tight spot where the 120 lbs of less weight is needed to keep them alive then they should not have been in that situation to begin with.
And what do you gain for the loss of 4mph? A few fighters can catch you that couldn't before and the margin is narrower between you and others, fine. For what gain? Instead of 68 minutes at MIL you now get 80ish?
Thank you, I'll skip the DTs.
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It all adds up. If 4mph doesn't matter, neither does 10mph, nor 25mph and so on.
Your right. 4 mph doesn't matter unless the pilot has a false sense of security/competency. Then, if you want to change the argument suit your agenda, add 10 mph, 25mph, and so on to it. Let's add 100 mph to it and you'll have the discussion hands down. You are talking gaming. My original post was about how it's done in reality.
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Your right. 4 mph doesn't matter unless the pilot has a false sense of security/competency. Then, if you want to change the argument suit your agenda, add 10 mph, 25mph, and so on to it. Let's add 100 mph to it and you'll have the discussion hands down. You are talking gaming. My original post was about how it's done in reality.
At what point do you think it matters?
My point is that you want your airframe as clean as you can have it unless there is a reason to dirty it up. There is no reason for a Mossie to carry DTs if it is going to France as it doesn't significantly benefit from them.
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At what point do you think it matters?
My point is that you want your airframe as clean as you can have it unless there is a reason to dirty it up. There is no reason for a Mossie to carry DTs if it is going to France as it doesn't significantly benefit from them.
Go back and read my original post.
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Go back and read my original post.
You said "Fighter pilots will take all the fuel they can carry to include externals." I am saying that is situational and that if I am not going to get anything useful for the small performance hit then I am not going to take the performance hit. If I need to fly 600 miles to the target and then back I will, of course, take the DTs. If I need bombs, I'll take them. With the internal fuel range of the P-51, P-47N, Mosquito and A6M it just doesn't make sense to take the DT for shorter hops.
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You said "Fighter pilots will take all the fuel they can carry to include externals." I am saying that is situational and that if I am not going to get anything useful for the small performance hit then I am not going to take the performance hit. If I need to fly 600 miles to the target and then back I will, of course, take the DTs. If I need bombs, I'll take them. With the internal fuel range of the P-51, P-47N, Mosquito and A6M it just doesn't make sense to take the DT for shorter hops.
Correct, it's situational dependent. A long range escort mission will require every drop of fuel that can be carried. If scrambling off the field for air defense there's no requirement for long range. In this instance, if external tanks were hung and empty, pilots would have blown them off to reduce drag. .... and I still say fighter pilots would have taken all they can carry, to include externals, appropriate for the missions back in the day.
In the context of the post I originally responded to there was talk of DTs and a partial internal fuel load. Real world, not gonna happen. Here in cartoon land, for $14.95, it just doesn't matter and isn't worth arguing about. It's each person's choice as to how realistic they want to play, or not, or game the game and others.
From a real world perspective, pilots are not going to give a hoot about minor drag penalty of the shackles, pylons, etc when they go to fight. They are going to care about how much gas they can carry and how they can out think and out fly the other guy. One of ya is gonna die and the other one is going back home. Pure and simple. Something we don't have to worry about here in cartoonville.
One of the three most useless things to a pilot is fuel in the fuel truck. :salute
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You could have a 4mph difference in speed on same type airplanes just due to rigging and trim issues. Some airplanes just faster or climb better than others.
A 4mph difference in top speed is only going to come into play after you run a sector or so and gotten to max possible speed. More likely someone will die before that happens.
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You could have a 4mph difference in speed on same type airplanes just due to rigging and trim issues. Some airplanes just faster or climb better than others.
A 4mph difference in top speed is only going to come into play after you run a sector or so and gotten to max possible speed. More likely someone will die before that happens.
This is definitely true. In Mossie's I am aware of swings of as much as 25mph based on the quality of the Mossie. When Boscombe Down wanted to test a Mosquito VI with Merlin 25s and ejector stacks they asked for one from, IIRC, 418 squadron, who being an active squadron obligingly gave them the squadron lemon.