Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: earl1937 on December 25, 2013, 09:05:18 AM
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:airplane: One of the things that I have been noticing more and more lately are these guys who "suicide" into a radar tower, hangar or what have you! This is something that AH needs to penalize the player for. If the player is to lazy to practice, or is interested in getting another a/c ASAP, why should that countries radar go out because he/she can't hit the side of a barn door with a rocket or cannon or a bomb, and they have to dive into the radar tower, triggering their rockets just before impact. That is absurd to say the least. Same thing with just about every object which you can destroy in this game.
What to do about it? I suggest that the tower pop right back up if player dives into the tower, PT boat, carrier, GV or what have you that they rammed into.
Your thoughts on this?
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Stop telling people how to play the game!
...... I was being VERY sarcastic with that comment
I agree that they should still have the option to do it if they want, just like hordes, but yes it should "cost" something to do it.
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I understand your grief.
It's not how I play the game, I try to complete the mission AND RTB.
Perhaps a mechanism that if you die or are captured you must takeoff from a rearmost field and fly to the front. This would apply for all deaths/captures.
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Give the nearest player a kill regardless of distance, and also delay the respawn by 5 mins for the retard.. er... offending suicidalist.
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The problem with punishing that behavior is to do so without punishing desirable participation. I've yet to see an idea presented that wouldn't have significant collateral damage.
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The problem with punishing that behavior is to do so without punishing desirable participation. I've yet to see an idea presented that wouldn't have significant collateral damage.
I would say maybe a delay on perks but I don't think the type to suicide into the dar cares bout such.
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I would say maybe a delay on perks but I don't think the type to suicide into the dar cares bout such.
That would still punish desirable participation too. Bob is flying an F4F in a brawl and manages to shoot down Frank's N1K2-J, but then is killed a second later by Charlie's Spitfire Mk XVI. Bob doesn't get any perks for the N1K2-J despite overcoming a superior fighter.
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make the dar indestructible.
then watch 100 guys suicide into it.
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This is as much a time based problem of getting a lot accomplished in a short period of time.
I followed a dar killer around to 4 fields one day by guessing which tower to jump to next. He was simply eliminating dar across an area as fast as he could, re-upping as quickly as he could. Diving into the dar tower was the most efficient use of his time and resources getting him back to his tower the fastest to achieve his goals. We do have unlimited lives if you are not worried about score which he wasn't.
If you want to dive into a field object to kill it, and don't care about your score or your choice of attack, it's your $14.95. Kamikaze object killing has a historic precedence. And just as historical kamikaze were intercepted, we have the choice to do that in our game. If we are paying attention for such things.
But, then that slaves us to following around energizer bunnies rather than indulging our own fun which they are often single handedly griefing and POing us off. And then we periodically wish for Hitech to control the Lil'greifers under the auspices of their poor conduct towards the community and the communities greater need of wholesome fun, or something akin to that.
Is this really a sideways wish about imposing fairness and controlling conduct in a no rules arena?
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:airplane: One of the things that I have been noticing more and more lately are these guys who "suicide" into a radar tower, hangar or what have you! This is something that AH needs to penalize the player for. If the player is to lazy to practice, or is interested in getting another a/c ASAP, why should that countries radar go out because he/she can't hit the side of a barn door with a rocket or cannon or a bomb, and they have to dive into the radar tower, triggering their rockets just before impact. That is absurd to say the least. Same thing with just about every object which you can destroy in this game.
What to do about it? I suggest that the tower pop right back up if player dives into the tower, PT boat, carrier, GV or what have you that they rammed into.
Your thoughts on this?
what exactly bothers you? the fact that he killed the dar or the fact that he suicides on the dar.
I'll tell you what really bothers me. people in la7's and 262's. wish all would disappear from the game.
semp
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I don't think you can destroy any objects in the game simply by suiciding into them. You have to deliver ord to the target to get it to drop.
So the first problem I see is this would penalize new guys who don't have a clue what they're actually doing.
Then there's the guys who do know what they're doing. Evidently they got their ord away for the object to go down. So they get penalized if they drop then die x seconds later? What if they died as a result of auto ack or a structural failure or compression or some other reason than their own will? Plenty of people don't know the limits of every aircraft and will auger unexpectedly. So how will those people ever learn the limitations of their chosen ride?
It's not a bad idea but not a great one either. My preference would be to kill them before they get there then there's no issue.
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Baldy you know exactly what they are doing.
Dive on the radar tower killing it and auguring into the dead tower to get back to you home base faster to up and hit the next base on your list.
It's a suicide attack. Jeezzz, it must be a really bad economy when someone like you is splitting ghosts of ghosts of hairs from years past. Ebineezer ain't got nothing on your hairy ghosts.
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CFIT is a little bit crazy :old:
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would it be possible to make ground objects regenerate automatically if the player that destroys them dies within XX seconds of having done so? Maybe 3 seconds?
Idea being you cannot suicide yourself into a target and drop the hanger/dar/ords, and die immediately, but if you drop them and live on for a bit, your inflicted damage stays permanent.
Kinda along the same thought lines as if you release torps towards a CV and get shot down, you can't tower before your fish hit their target or they will disappear. Tie your ords and any damage they do directly to you still being alive and in-game.
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Here's an idea. If you take off with ord and don't land safely you can't take off with more ord for 15 minutes after your sortie ends. If you land safely you can take off with fresh ord right away.
This will hurt buff pilots who lose all three of their buffs but might also curb some bomb and bailers. It will also slow down some base attacks as attackers who die will have to wait to bring in more ord and those who don't die will have to RTB before bringing in more ord.
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Here's an idea. If you take off with ord and don't land safely you can't take off with more ord for 15 minutes after your sortie ends. If you land safely you can take off with fresh ord right away.
This will hurt buff pilots who lose all three of their buffs but might also curb some bomb and bailers. It will also slow down some base attacks as attackers who die will have to wait to bring in more ord and those who don't die will have to RTB before bringing in more ord.
:airplane: Yours and Reapers have merit to both ideas! Hi Tech just needs to figure out some way from someone dieing killing an object on the ground and then re-upping 5 seconds later.
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The player who fails to pull out of his dive is penalized by a reduced score.
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:airplane: One of the things that I have been noticing more and more lately are these guys who "suicide" into a radar tower, hangar or what have you! This is something that AH needs to penalize the player for. If the player is to lazy to practice, or is interested in getting another a/c ASAP, why should that countries radar go out because he/she can't hit the side of a barn door with a rocket or cannon or a bomb, and they have to dive into the radar tower, triggering their rockets just before impact. That is absurd to say the least. Same thing with just about every object which you can destroy in this game.
What to do about it? I suggest that the tower pop right back up if player dives into the tower, PT boat, carrier, GV or what have you that they rammed into.
Your thoughts on this?
Sorry Earl but my thoughts are that it's not a big issue and attempts to penalize will have negative consequences out weighing any benefit. The idea that if you don't land safely with ord that you are penalized for 15 minutes is fairly incredible to me. Extend the logic and wirbles don't get to reup, fighters who bail because they are damaged but barely flyable don't get to reup etc. I say leave well enough alone.
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Idea: if you die due to a collision with a non player-controled object in the game or bail without damage after destroying any field structure and without a kill recorded, have whatever perks you would have earned subtracted from your current perk bank.
Wouldn't stop the skilled that do it because they're lazy, but would be a good deterrent to the typical 'radar hero'.
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Idea: if you die due to a collision with a non player-controled object in the game or bail without damage after destroying any field structure and without a kill recorded, have whatever perks you would have earned subtracted from your current perk bank.
Wouldn't stop the skilled that do it because they're lazy, but would be a good deterrent to the typical 'radar hero'.
And.. would make any new player have a negative balance for a few months.
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Extend the bomb arming distance (I guess min height of drop in game). Wouldn't take that much.
Tumor
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My first thought was "xbox generation", then I remembered a long time player who killed ords at a base and bailed before he was out of the ack. I asked why he did that (nicely), he said "I accomplished what I came to do, why not bail to get back sooner". Just doesn't make any sense to me...
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My first thought was "xbox generation", then I remembered a long time player who killed ords at a base and bailed before he was out of the ack. I asked why he did that (nicely), he said "I accomplished what I came to do, why not bail to get back sooner". Just doesn't make any sense to me...
:airplane: That is my complaint about the "suicide killers". One player can kill a bunch of radars all along the front lines within 15 or 20 minutes. To me that is gaming the game, which is no benefit to the quality of the game.
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i think simplest most direct option without really hurting either side(new players/Skilled players/accidents)
is to just limit the amount of ords a field either A has or B player has access to per minute
so for example... say your allotted 15 rockets in 20min if you burn threw 6-10-12(either threw shooting or death) in 9 min...you only get 3 rockets for another 11min and once those are gone.. you must wait till you can load more ords... would mean people could not blast 10 rockets... die blast 10 die blast 10 die within 15 min as they would only be allowed just 15 per 20 min(which may need adjusted)
would also make ords more "valuable" not oh i got shot down let me get more ords real quick
and perhaps for the people that use ords frequently and use them properly .. have a simple option to bypass the timer for perk points so if they loaded a plane down with ords....and augered or maybe messed up a take off... and want more ords before 15 min they could say spend 50-150 perks to reload ords(suicide planes dont get much perks)
or limit the amount of ords per field(as they tend to take off from 1-2 fields)... this of course effects everyone but is probably simpler all around....
thats just my thought
oh and kamikaze tactic may have been real... but at the same time... AF isint going to just give you ords and ords and ords and ords and ords to waste on low value targets or planes/fuel for that matter assuming you had...unlimited lives so if your going to bring in the kamikaze effect that "oh well it was real!" then you have to look at it from more of a commander view why would you waste stuff on the guy who keeps hitting low value targets and brings nothing back????
you wouldn't
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One player can kill a bunch of radars all along the front lines within 15 or 20 minutes.
so can a single set of bombers at 30k.
at least you can go get a proxy on the suicide guy..
radars are overrated anyway, true map watchers use bar.
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I just figure the guy hitting the radar sucks at attacking ground objects.
I see more than a far share of P38s arguring in on a ground attack. Most I would think are related to compression.
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Extend the bomb arming distance (I guess min height of drop in game). Wouldn't take that much.
Tumor
Bombs already have to travel 1000ft before being armed in game.
ack-ack
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I'll tell you what really bothers me. people in la7's and 262's. wish all would disappear from the game.
semp
Why?
Most who fly them have zero clue how to use them (myself included when it comes to 262s). I've personally never had an issue with 262 pilots....I think I've been killed only by one or two in the past two years. Ran into one last night trying to sneek up on me co-alt while I was in a 110G...came around, made one agressive move during the merge and off he ran, never to be seen again. But that's just been my experience...YMMV. :salute
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I agree with kvuo :old:
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Why?
Most who fly them have zero clue how to use them (myself included when it comes to 262s).
It's because semp is in that category. I'm surprised he didn't add P51s also, because sure has zero clue in those also.
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:airplane: That is my complaint about the "suicide killers". One player can kill a bunch of radars all along the front lines within 15 or 20 minutes. To me that is gaming the game, which is no benefit to the quality of the game.
One player in a 190A-8 can do that without augering or carrying ord. Just fly from base to base taking out the radar with cannons in a single pass. I've watched it happen and it's much faster than augering and having to re-up.
Likewise a light bomber like a Boston or Mosquito can do the same dropping from some alt and with little chance of being intercepted.
The suicide bombers are only hurting their own scores and taking longer to accomplish their objectives than a more effective player.
So if the real complaint is your radar being taken out then I'm afraid the only way to stop that is to kill them before they get to your field. Imagine having to do something like that in a combat game. Other than that the only other way to stop it is to wish for indestructable radar and I presume you'de want that only for your side.
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One player in a 190A-8 can do that without augering or carrying ord. Just fly from base to base taking out the radar with cannons in a single pass. I've watched it happen and it's much faster than augering and having to re-up.....
In theory yes, it's possible to kill them, but an 190 diving from 15K on wep is not likely to be caught by anything before they kill the dar and auger... I know, I've tried. About the only thing that I have seen work is to drive an Osti or Wirble to the tower, and hope you hit them before they kill the tower...
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Yes, the problems inherent in interception are made harder when there is no real downside to the bomb delivery aircraft not returning to base-and yes, for the most part not RTBing simply saves time on most base attack mission profiles, say hangar banging.
While we're proposing things that probably won't be implemented :lol , I propose every single bit of ord carrying a perk price, but one that is only charged if you fail to land, as with perk aircraft and vehicles. Not a lot mind you, just enough to make players make a good-faith attempt to survive and RTB.
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Emphasizing survival too much may have consequences which aren't exactly what you are looking for... ;)
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You probably mean even more emphasis on attacking completely undefended bases, or taking buffs to 30k, or b both. Funny thing is, the HTC team implemented a counterbalance to the "Hit 'em where they ain't" strategy years ago (the limited front). Force the horde to throw itself at the other horde? Great idea if you think about it long enough, too bad nobody liked it. I don't think I even liked it at the time, but it was because I preferred slightly smaller engagements off of the side of main front, which could easily be found at that period in the game.
Emphasizing survival too much may have consequences which aren't exactly what you are looking for... ;)
It could be argued that right now most players are looking to truck heavy loads and kill inanimate objects because that actually matters a lot more to the map than our silly fighter twisty-turny air superiority scrum.
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Yes, the problems inherent in interception are made harder when there is no real downside to the bomb delivery aircraft not returning to base-and yes, for the most part not RTBing simply saves time on most base attack mission profiles, say hangar banging.
While we're proposing things that probably won't be implemented :lol , I propose every single bit of ord carrying a perk price, but one that is only charged if you fail to land, as with perk aircraft and vehicles. Not a lot mind you, just enough to make players make a good-faith attempt to survive and RTB.
Downside, hard for new players to bomb because they don't have the perk points to load bombs...:shrug:
I still attest that this is a cultural problem, not a game mechanics problem. IMHO If the community would shun those who play like this, then it would be less prevalent.
(http://awesomegifs.com/wp-content/uploads/dead-horse.gif)
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I still attest that this is a cultural problem, not a game mechanics problem. IMHO If the community would shun those who play like this, then it would be less prevalent.
(http://awesomegifs.com/wp-content/uploads/dead-horse.gif)
Oh lookee! A horse! Where's my stick...
Shunning people doesn't really seem to do much. If browbeating and shunning worked, HOing would be non existent because anytime a lot of people get HOed 200 lights up like a Christmas tree.
I'm not a huge fan of people who don't make a token effort to survive, particularly the jabocides as described here. Unfortunately I've never seen a solution that wasn't extraordinarily easy to get around or if it wasn't had a really good chance of penalizing legitimate players who are either unskilled or unlucky.
Wiley.
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Maybe I don`t have a problem with penalizing the unskilled and unlucky bomber... Anyway, the major issue is this: Basically direct air-to-air fighter engagements are almost irrelevant to the map moving aspect. How can one make them more relevant, that is a question.
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Maybe I don`t have a problem with penalizing the unskilled and unlucky bomber... Anyway, the major issue is this: Basically direct air-to-air fighter engagements are almost irrelevant to the map moving aspect. How can one make them more relevant, that is a question.
Irrelevant? How so? If you control the air over a field, it's not going to be attacked successfully.
Wiley.
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Irrelevant? How so? If you control the air over a field, it's not going to be attacked successfully.
Wiley.
Nope, it is very difficult to prevent determined bombers and jabos from getting in and doing the damage, even with a lot of friendly planes around the base. The attackers won't survive usually, but as we have seen that is not currently a deterrent.
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Nope, it is very difficult to prevent determined bombers and jabos from getting in and doing the damage, even with a lot of friendly planes around the base. The attackers won't survive usually, but as we have seen that is not currently a deterrent.
agreed i have seen many times buffs going into high speed dives(eventually ripping wings off) just to hit they're target because they know they can re up with no ill effects and even though you may shoot them down... those bombs are still going to hit
or lancs coming in at 500ft spiking to 800ft dropping full load before getting killed by ack because again... its simple easy no ill effect
or watching b24s/17s/lancs/b26s suicide into CV
all this has nothing to do with air superiority just people knowing that surviving has no benefit to them because they'res no consequences so they do something they would not really do if it had a negative effect
what air cover does stop however... is vulchers... and gv runs as well as high alt planes... but catching up to a lanc in a 400mph dive who has no intend to pull up or the one at 500 ft who dropped from 5k goin 380+ who knows ack will kill him...but as long as he bombs his target...... it wont matter
simplest option... ords over a certain weight/class/time be perked...
still think letting people take off with X amount of ords in X amount of mins is best solution
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Oh lookee! A horse! Where's my stick...
Shunning people doesn't really seem to do much. If browbeating and shunning worked, HOing would be non existent because anytime a lot of people get HOed 200 lights up like a Christmas tree.
I'm not a huge fan of people who don't make a token effort to survive, particularly the jabocides as described here. Unfortunately I've never seen a solution that wasn't extraordinarily easy to get around or if it wasn't had a really good chance of penalizing legitimate players who are either unskilled or unlucky.
Wiley.
Not do much? Well maybe...or maybe not.
When I first started, I did a lot of things that were considered dweeby. When someone said "hey, that's not cool" I eventually learned not to do them. People can change.
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Irrelevant? How so? If you control the air over a field, it's not going to be attacked successfully.
Wiley.
So they move to the base you're not defending.
IMO, we need to de-emphasize controlling territory, since it leads to the bombing of inanimate objects to a degree that is unhealthy for the game.
Specific objective bases might solve the problem. Get there any way you like, take it however you want, but you have to take it.
Flash-hording an out of the way base no longer does anything for the war-tards, and no longer will losing a peripheral vehicle base 100 miles from anything important force your chess piece to capitulate.
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So they move to the base you're not defending.
IMO, we need to de-emphasize controlling territory, since it leads to the bombing of inanimate objects to a degree that is unhealthy for the game.
Specific objective bases might solve the problem. Get there any way you like, take it however you want, but you have to take it.
Flash-hording an out of the way base no longer does anything for the war-tards, and no longer will losing a peripheral vehicle base 100 miles from anything important force your chess piece to capitulate.
What's unhealthy for the game is taking away something that people like to do, especially when it does not really affect your gameplay. If you take away what they like doing, that does not mean they are going to suddenly change and play the way you want or you do, they might just leave. I'm not sure why you think bombing "inanimate objects" is bad for the game. They want to do that, there are guys like me who will hunt them down, and there are guys who will help defend them and engage me. Everybody wins.
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What's unhealthy for the game is taking away something that people like to do, especially when it does not really affect your gameplay. If you take away what they like doing, that does not mean they are going to suddenly change and play the way you want or you do, they might just leave. I'm not sure why you think bombing "inanimate objects" is bad for the game. They want to do that, there are guys like me who will hunt them down, and there are guys who will help defend them and engage me. Everybody wins.
It's the ciiiiiiircle of liiiiiiiife...
The one counter I'd put to that point is, a suicide jabo 190 isn't adding terribly much to others' gameplay unless you happen to catch him from above about 1/4 of the way from his base to yours. Otherwise, he just goes into a shallow dive and a fair bit has to go right for you to get anything resembling a shot at him unless you're really in the right place at the right time.
If I see something I'm expecting to be a 'radar hero' co-alt or above me, unless I'm smack in the middle of his approach vector I generally don't bother even trying to engage him.
Wiley.
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What's unhealthy for the game is taking away something that people like to do, especially when it does not really affect your gameplay. If you take away what they like doing, that does not mean they are going to suddenly change and play the way you want or you do, they might just leave. I'm not sure why you think bombing "inanimate objects" is bad for the game. They want to do that, there are guys like me who will hunt them down, and there are guys who will help defend them and engage me. Everybody wins.
In and of itself, it isn't bad. But when shooting buildings and ack starts to rival shooting at planes as the #1 feature of AH, then combat suffers, as the number of people participating in combat drops drastically.
The same occurs with attempts to mitigate the defenders in your base attack. In and of itself, it isn't a bad thing to try to increase the odds of your attack by reducing defense. It only becomes bad when it turns into an attempt to completely avoid any and all player-controlled defenses.
At some point, it ceases to be worthwhile for those seeking an actual fight to climb to intercept, or jump to defend the base. The guy either suicides into the radar, or has so much energy, he dies to the 1-2 ack hits he accumulates every pass. Or the guys attacking the base bail, or just try to hit their targets and run. And at that point, the game is impacted in a significant and negative way.