Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: Tinkles on December 26, 2013, 01:05:14 PM
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Figured that it would be wiser to ask now instead of waiting 4 months and then asking.
What I am ultimately looking for it a rig that can run Aces High on medium+ settings with 60 fps (even in some furballs).
While being able to play games like
Assassin's Creed Genre (1-6)
Skyrim
Far Cry 3
etc
Budget window is roughly $600
Would it be cheaper to buy a built rig? Or to get the 'components' individually and put together?
Thanks for your input guys.
:salute
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Are there any parts from your old computer you can use (hard drive, optical drive, case, Windows)? $600 is probably doable but won't give you much wiggle room. Even $700 would give you more likelyhood of getting closer to what you want while around $1000 would get you a pretty solid box without the keyboard, mouse, monitor, joystick, speakers/headphones, etc.
You're better off building it. At least then you know what the quality of components is and where the most likely upgrade paths/bottlenecks are plus you'll save money.
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From my understanding of the games you mention things like Assassins Creed and Far Cry 3 will need more power than Aces High so most likely anything you get for them will cruise easy on AHII - Perhaps those that play those games may be able to verify?
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Are there any parts from your old computer you can use (hard drive, optical drive, case, Windows)? $600 is probably doable but won't give you much wiggle room. Even $700 would give you more likelyhood of getting closer to what you want while around $1000 would get you a pretty solid box without the keyboard, mouse, monitor, joystick, speakers/headphones, etc.
You're better off building it. At least then you know what the quality of components is and where the most likely upgrade paths/bottlenecks are plus you'll save money.
Hard drive.. maybe. Not sure on the case itself. Keyboard, mouse, monitor stick headphones are all taken care of.
Here's a dxdiag to get a feel for what I have. But, be warned, it's ancient (14 years old) :confused:
Operating System: Windows XP Professional (5.1, Build 2600) Service Pack 3 (2600.xpsp_sp3_qfe.130704-0421)
Language: English (Regional Setting: English)
System Manufacturer: System manufacturer
System Model: System Product Name
BIOS: Phoenix - AwardBIOS v6.00PG
Processor: Intel(R) Pentium(R) D CPU 3.40GHz (2 CPUs)
Memory: 2046MB RAM
Page File: 940MB used, 2997MB available
Windows Dir: C:\WINDOWS
DirectX Version: DirectX 9.0c (4.09.0000.0904)
DX Setup Parameters: Not found
DxDiag Version: 5.03.2600.5512 32bit Unicode
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Here's some generalizations so you can start looking at parts (I like newegg but Tiger Direct and B&H Photo also have parts).
Best would be an Intel Core I5 K series but you're more likely to have to settle for a Core I3 with an appropriate motherboard for either one (ATX is better but in your price range you might have to go with micro ATX) and compatible RAM (visit the motherboard manufacturer site for compatibility).
The graphics card will be the most expensive component. Plan to spend between $100-200 and more likely between $150-200. Toms Hardware reviews every graphic card monthly and posts a "best in price range" list.
Don't skimp on the power supply. Get a reputable bronze or higher rated supply, preferably with a single rail, powerful enough to deliver the amps the graphics card needs with some overhead.
If you have the disc and aren't going to use the old machine you should be able to move Win XP over but a newer OS would allow you to use a lot more RAM (4 GB Max in 32 bit XP which includes the video card).
If you can move your old hard drive make sure you reformat it first as you won't want all the old machine's drivers on it, otherwise get a 7200 RPM drive you can afford. DVD drives are cheap.
Finally a case to hold it all and some Arctic Silver thermal paste for the processor and you should be good to go.
Good luck, have fun and stop back with any questions.
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Blagard said it, build for the toughest game you want to play.
GPU and Ram, these are the prime movers for games. GPU, minimum PCI-e 2.0, Ram minimum DDR3 1600MHz.
You will want to consider going 64Bit OS as well. Max ram for 32bit windows is 3GB. 64bit windows can use more than that. Also know that MS will no longer provide updates for XP after Feb. 1, 2014.
Once you decide GPU, decide cpu that will work best for it. You do not want a cpu that will bottleneck the GPU.
Next choose a mobo that will work with your CPU, GPU and RAM choices.
Cases can be to small, I chose a mid tower ATX case once. Room was tough to work with when you consider the size of some of the GPU cards. Just for room I now use full tower ATX cases, all metal. Will be used forever or until ATX form factor is dumped.
Do not rush into it. Research your choices. Do not settle too easily. Check out the QVC for your mobo when it comes to ram selection.
Its certainly easier to pay for a built system, but you can get more bang for your buck if your careful and build your own. You do not necessarily need the latest and greatest. $600 is a tough threshold, not impossible. Consider how long you want machine to be viable. Things like cases and PSU's can be used for future builds.
In my signature is my current build. Its 5 years old, its prolly good for another 5 years. I spent a bit more than $600 tho, but you could say its an extreme build for AH. If I had had it built, ie Alienware, +$5000, I spent less than $2000. I burnt money on SSD's in RAID 0. I figure you prolly want to drop $1000 and a little less for something that will be viable for many years and have parts that can be used in a future build.
luck
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Max ram for 32bit windows is 3GB.
It's actually 4 Gb which includes system RAM and video RAM but there's always another .25-.75 Gb allocated to the motherboard, USB ports, etc. that's not available. A 1GB video card for instance would leave you limited to a maximum of 2.25-2.75 Gb of system RAM.
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It's actually 4 Gb which includes system RAM and video RAM but there's always another .25-.75 Gb allocated to the motherboard, USB ports, etc. that's not available. A 1GB video card for instance would leave you limited to a maximum of 2.25-2.75 Gb of system RAM.
(http://i785.photobucket.com/albums/yy138/spyknee/th_ram.jpg) (http://s785.photobucket.com/user/spyknee/media/ram.jpg.html)
This is my 32bit XP Pro machine. It has 4GB of ram installed. The vid card has 512Mb of ram.
You are correct, I just rounded down what was used by my config.
Point being, as you stated in your post, 32 bit is ram limited. I believe PAE has something to do with getting the full use of both 2GB ram sticks. You were writing your post at exact same time as me.
Thought the OP should be aware of the limitation is all. Personally, 64bit is the way to go.
:salute
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Any information I can get on this subject is beneficial, I really don't know much about the different types of 'components' ; motherboards, processors etc. Which is compatible, which is more reliable /prone to have these faults etc. This is a huge investment for me, so I want to make sure that every part that I buy works :)
So any info/input you have is beneficial
Thank you guys for your time.
<<S>>
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It definitely looks like you'd better build an entirely new rig. Try the builder at http://pcpartpicker.com/parts/partlist/ (http://pcpartpicker.com/parts/partlist/). There's a built-in compatibility check (make sure it's on!) and the more you reduce options along the way, the fewer variations you'll get as a result. Play with it a while to get familiar with the system and when you've put up something you might like, send the list here for evaluation.
Other sites worth exploring e.g. http://www.hardware-revolution.com/budget-gaming-pc-computer-november-2013/ (http://www.hardware-revolution.com/budget-gaming-pc-computer-november-2013/) and http://lifehacker.com/5840963/the-best-pcs-you-can-build-for-600-and-1200 (http://lifehacker.com/5840963/the-best-pcs-you-can-build-for-600-and-1200)
For AH Intel seems to be a safer bet as processor than AMD, although the latest models of the latter may use two cores for AH, too.
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It definitely looks like you'd better build an entirely new rig. Try the builder at http://pcpartpicker.com/parts/partlist/ (http://pcpartpicker.com/parts/partlist/). There's a built-in compatibility check (make sure it's on!) and the more you reduce options along the way, the fewer variations you'll get as a result. Play with it a while to get familiar with the system and when you've put up something you might like, send the list here for evaluation.
Other sites worth exploring e.g. http://www.hardware-revolution.com/budget-gaming-pc-computer-november-2013/ (http://www.hardware-revolution.com/budget-gaming-pc-computer-november-2013/) and http://lifehacker.com/5840963/the-best-pcs-you-can-build-for-600-and-1200 (http://lifehacker.com/5840963/the-best-pcs-you-can-build-for-600-and-1200)
For AH Intel seems to be a safer bet as processor than AMD, although the latest models of the latter may use two cores for AH, too.
This is what I came up with, based on this link you posted ( http://lifehacker.com/5840963/the-best-pcs-you-can-build-for-600-and-1200 )
CPU - Intel COre i5-3570K 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor $199.99
CPU Cooler - Don't know what to look for
Motherboard - Gigabyte GA-Z77X-UD5H ATX LGA1155 Motherboard $199.95
Memory - G.Skill Ares Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory $76.98
Storage - Samsung 830 Series 128GB 2.5" Solid State DIsk $109.95
Storage - Western Digital Cavlar Black 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive $89.98 (-$5.00 mail-in rebate = $84.98)
Video Card - EVGA GeForce GTX 660 2GB Video Card $194.99 (-$25.00 mail-in rebate = $179.98)
Case - Don't know what to look for
Power Supply - Corsair Enthusiast 650W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply $89.99 (-$15.00 mail in rebate = $74.99)
Optical Drive - Lite-On iHAS124-04 DVD/CD Writer $17.98
Overall price (as seen above)
Base total: $979.81
Mail-In Rebates: $45.00
Shipping: $9.99
Total: $944.80
There are some things missing (case, CPU cooler and operating system)
I posted what I came up with here. I wanted to know what I could "cut back" on (from the list above) that could still do what I want it to (play some of the current games on the market) yet still play Aces High in a furball too (if both are possible, works for me :D ) .
Thanks for all your help guys, I really appreciate it.
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Well that looks a lot like a gaming computer to me!
I believe the motherboard could be a cheaper model with the same chipset, like Gigabyte GA-Z77-HD3 for $103. The extra features in the more expensive one don't usually give any extras gaming wise.
As for the CPU cooler, the stock cooler coming with the "boxed" CPU will do fine. If you get a "tray" CPU, even the $7 Arctic Cooling UC-AR7GT-AC-01 will do unless you plan to overclock right away.
As for the case, there's a few specifications to consider: Airflow, easy install, space for the video card, mechanic quality, connections. Raidmax ATX-809B for $30 looks like a good bargain.
The Solid State Disk doesn't really affect gameplay, at least not AH. It's true that it will load both Windows and the games fast, but you really can't install many games on a 128 GB disk. The Black series are fast hard disks, use the loading times for recreation.
Windows7 64 bit might be the most compatible choice for operating system.
Can't say anything about the video card, I'll leave that for others to judge.
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One thing I did when I started my 1st build was to go to a site like Alienware and walk thru a specific machine they had offered. See what they used and how they matched up there parts choices.
Then I researched their choices in different forums and online stores. This helped me familiarize myself with stuff. Gave me an inkling on what to look for when it came to a gaming machine. My mom now uses that same machine. I had to get a new mobo at one point cuz it died. But all the other components are still functioning.
I was totally puter illiterate at the time. Just do not rush. My 2nd build was quite frustrating cuz the mobo was a ASUS Stryker Extreme, at the time, unbeknownst to me, there was a bunch of bad capacitors being used. The mobo was RMA'ed 4 times. Learned a lot there. This caused me to build my 3rd machine, it has been brilliant. Then I went back and revamped the the 2nd build, I use it as a bench/backup for my current one.
Just do not get caught in the latest and greatest loop. More expensive, more probs.
Remember for gaming its about the GPU and ram and getting a cpu that can handle them. If you choose an SSD for the OS, there are also things to make yourself aware of when it comes to the OS install and basic day to day use.
If you choose a PCI-e 3.0 vid card, make sure mobo has PCI-e 3.0 slots, make sure the mobo has onboard sound or you will need to purchase a sound card, make sure the PSU can handle the vid card and other components.
Also, you might consider buying the OS now. Many Xmas sales happening. Newegg has W7 64bit w/SP1 for $125. Good price, Newegg very good place. Shop around, you might find it cheaper. Do not buy from Amazon or E-Bay. Might seem like a good price, but who knows about the seller. You want it in an unopened MS box. Then treat the disc like its made of gold. Anytime your OS crashes or is corrupted, just erase drive and do a clean install. Best way to go.
research, research, research
luck
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yeah drop the ssd and use the money towards a better power supply. get also win7 64 the home edition is good enough. any 30 dollar cpu cooler is better than the stock one. avoid trying to get one with push buttons, they're a pain.
semp
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This is what I came up with, based on this link you posted ( http://lifehacker.com/5840963/the-best-pcs-you-can-build-for-600-and-1200 )
CPU - Intel COre i5-3570K 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor $199.99
CPU Cooler - Don't know what to look for
Motherboard - Gigabyte GA-Z77X-UD5H ATX LGA1155 Motherboard $199.95
Memory - G.Skill Ares Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory $76.98
Storage - Samsung 830 Series 128GB 2.5" Solid State DIsk $109.95
Storage - Western Digital Cavlar Black 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive $89.98 (-$5.00 mail-in rebate = $84.98)
Video Card - EVGA GeForce GTX 660 2GB Video Card $194.99 (-$25.00 mail-in rebate = $179.98)
Case - Don't know what to look for
Power Supply - Corsair Enthusiast 650W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply $89.99 (-$15.00 mail in rebate = $74.99)
Optical Drive - Lite-On iHAS124-04 DVD/CD Writer $17.98
Overall price (as seen above)
Base total: $979.81
Mail-In Rebates: $45.00
Shipping: $9.99
Total: $944.80
There are some things missing (case, CPU cooler and operating system)
I posted what I came up with here. I wanted to know what I could "cut back" on (from the list above) that could still do what I want it to (play some of the current games on the market) yet still play Aces High in a furball too (if both are possible, works for me :D ) .
Thanks for all your help guys, I really appreciate it.
Alright, I took off the SSD and added some new things.
CPU Cooler: Arctic Cooling Alpine 11 GT Rev. 2 28.6 CFM CPU Cooler $8.00
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8 Home PRemium Full (32/64 bit) $200.00
I looked for the case you mentioned but it came with 'baggage' . As for the windows 7 home edition, that came with baggage too.
Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 (OEM) 64-bit 90 dollars (Combo): (came with the above & Intel 520 Series Cherryville 120GB 2.5" Solid State Disk (price not available) ).
Case's baggage: Asus: BC-12B1ST/BLK/B/AS Blu-Ray Reader, DVD/CD Writer ($62.00)
Also, I don't plan on rushing this. I won't have the money for this until April at the soonest, I wonder if any of these things will go down in price by then :)
However, I do want to make it so this is upgradeable for the future, yet can still run 'modern' games at mid-graphics.
Thanks for all the replies guys. I'm walking in the dark, but it's nice to have some guides along the way :)
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Tinkles, check out this site for suggestions on balanced gaming builds: http://www.logicalincrements.com/
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you have both windows 8 and windows 7?
semp
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you have both windows 8 and windows 7?
semp
:lol Just noticed my typo. It's windows 7 home premium edition (32/64) not windows 8
I was just saying some of the recommended things I couldn't get because of the baggage (listed at previous post), the 'baggage' -as I call it- would be something I don't need or already have a better equivalent.
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I have the same CPU, MOBO. The system has been flawless so far with WIN 7 64bit Home Premium.
I used this RAM...http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004HZG4ZO/ref=oh_details_o09_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I am running this GPU...http://www.amazon.com/Gigabyte-Mini-Displayport-PCI-Express-Graphic-GV-R787OC-2GD/dp/B007PJVB3Y/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1388206708&sr=8-1&keywords=gigabyte+hd+7870
This is the PS...http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00608MP5E/ref=oh_details_o01_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
and this CPU Cooler...http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005O65JXI/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i03?ie=UTF8&psc=1
The GPU is the first AMD card I've ever used and it performs very well. The power supply is a bit of an overkill but I wanted to be sure it would handle future upgrades.
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Case, CoolerMaster HAF 932, Full tower ATX case. Plenty room for large vid cards, multiple fans with room for water cooling in the future. Its an all metal case. Bit pricey but its been around awhile. Should be able to get a good price. I own 2. Will use them till ATX form factor is no more. Newegg had them for $139. Search around.
I would suggest an Nvidia based GPU card. I know peeps that had trouble with ATI/AMD Radeons?????????????????????
If you are not over clocking, the stock cpu fan will be fine. Later you can consider an aftermarket cooler if necessary.
Consider a larger PSU, 750W minimum. Maybe 850W, a good PSU will last many builds into future. I have read where they operate best at 80% of capacity, leaves a little overhead I guess.
Drop the Blu ray, add it later. Unless your gonna use a semi large screen HDTV to view movies. Apply dollars another way.
Remember, its about the vid card, the ram and a cpu that can push it. Then select the mobo. If you gonna use a spin drive, get one that has some rpms. The Western Digital Raptors spin 10,000 rpm, better performance.
Also be aware of software drivers, ie: chipset drivers, the bios of mobo, If you buy a slightly older mobo, you might need to get the latest bios for it, same with the mobos drivers. They will give you a disc with the stuff for it, but these things are always updated. You might as well start off with the most current drivers for mobo. ie; you would want to update the bios before you install the OS. read up. Same thing with the OS, get all the MS updates in before you start installing the software you want to use, as in the games, AH.
Theres a lot of crap to involve yourself with, but getting your ducks in a row will save you headaches and troubleshooting.............
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think you are confusing dual channel and triple channel with ddr3
semp
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think you are confusing dual channel and triple channel with ddr3
semp
Your right, I just googled up that mobo and saw the boards layout. I edited my bad advice out.
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Micro Center usually has CPU and mother board package deals. You would have to go to the store for pickup to get the deals.
I personally like the cooler master evo cooler myself, have one on each puter.
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MADe, good advice other than that one:
Consider a larger PSU, 750W minimum. Maybe 850W, a good PSU will last many builds into future.
Modern components use less power than those from about five years ago, and the trend seems to continue. There's more exact explanations, but if you just think about the law of conservation of energy you'll get a clue. If your system only uses 400W but your PSU produces 800W with 80% efficiency, what will become of the excess 250W? Correct: heat. Plus a bunch of anomalies, since the PSU isn't really designed to produce heat.
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http://www.ocaholic.ch/modules/smartsection/item.php?itemid=1061
http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/g_skill_ddr3_pc3_12800_triple_channel_memory_review,11.html
http://www.overclock.net/t/681697/the-truth-about-i7-1366-memory-both-dual-channel-vs-tri-channel
http://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Haswell-Core-i3-vs-i5-vs-i7-Which-is-right-for-you-475/
Heres a couple of reads. This will expose you to some of the nomenclature, prompt you to ask your own questions about stuff. Then you can Google up more stuff to stupefy and dumbfound yourself. he he
Take it all with a grain of salt. Do not let the fact that you do not understand what is being said, I sure as hell didn't, in beginning. As you read more things will begin to gel and you will develop a basic understanding so you can get what you want. Will not make you a computer engineer, just allow you to make more informed choices.
Also get a 3.5 floppy, will make bios update easy. Allow to save a copy of bios settings to a floppy, outside of bios saving. There cheap as hell.
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MADe, good advice other than that one:
Modern components use less power than those from about five years ago, and the trend seems to continue. There's more exact explanations, but if you just think about the law of conservation of energy you'll get a clue. If your system only uses 400W but your PSU produces 800W with 80% efficiency, what will become of the excess 250W? Correct: heat. Plus a bunch of anomalies, since the PSU isn't really designed to produce heat.
Understood, but in future as he learns/upgrades, he might want to add a 2nd vid card, or OC the equipment and add water cooling. I know there has been discussions about PSU size in the forums in past, good discussions, but I will always fall to the stronger side when it comes to power. I use a 900W PSU in this machine, it has not been an issue for moi. I have so many fans running its sick. 2 for cpu air cooler, fans for 2 vid cards, the case has 4 or 5 fans. I had to jack up the volts for the cpu and ram to get the 4GHz OC I use. Having a "little" extra wattage cannot hurt.
I'm not a puter pro by any means, but my machine works great. It was reasonably priced. I started at the same level as Tinkles, ignorant. So I just try to explain my approach. Cannot argue with success. he he
He said he wanted to learn, so I try not to just dictate to him. Not that anybody else is either.
:salute
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MADe, good advice other than that one:
Modern components use less power than those from about five years ago, and the trend seems to continue. There's more exact explanations, but if you just think about the law of conservation of energy you'll get a clue. If your system only uses 400W but your PSU produces 800W with 80% efficiency, what will become of the excess 250W? Correct: heat. Plus a bunch of anomalies, since the PSU isn't really designed to produce heat.
This is not correct. The switching PSUs of today adjust their power production according to power draw which is the only reason they can operate at 80%+ efficiency. If PSUs would operate like you say they do, PSUs would have an abysmally low efficiency on anything but 100% load.
The switching operation is also the reason why many PSUs will produce 'dirty' electricity if they are driven at very low loads.
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http://www.ocaholic.ch/modules/smartsection/item.php?itemid=1061
http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/g_skill_ddr3_pc3_12800_triple_channel_memory_review,11.html
http://www.overclock.net/t/681697/the-truth-about-i7-1366-memory-both-dual-channel-vs-tri-channel
http://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Haswell-Core-i3-vs-i5-vs-i7-Which-is-right-for-you-475/
Heres a couple of reads. This will expose you to some of the nomenclature, prompt you to ask your own questions about stuff. Then you can Google up more stuff to stupefy and dumbfound yourself. he he
Take it all with a grain of salt. Do not let the fact that you do not understand what is being said, I sure as hell didn't, in beginning. As you read more things will begin to gel and you will develop a basic understanding so you can get what you want. Will not make you a computer engineer, just allow you to make more informed choices.
Also get a 3.5 floppy, will make bios update easy. Allow to save a copy of bios settings to a floppy, outside of bios saving. There cheap as hell.
AFAIK floppy usage need has disappeared completely. Most modern motherboards allow you to use a cd or USB stick to flash the bios - or you can do it directly through windows. Also, you should never update your BIOS unless you have a real problem which you know the BIOS update will solve (such as not supporting your new CPU). But that situation should never come with a new motherboard or you chose a wrong one to begin with.
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AFAIK floppy usage need has disappeared completely. Most modern motherboards allow you to use a cd or USB stick to flash the bios - or you can do it directly through windows. Also, you should never update your BIOS unless you have a real problem which you know the BIOS update will solve (such as not supporting your new CPU). But that situation should never come with a new motherboard or you chose a wrong one to begin with.
I understand about the floppy, but it is easier for a novice. I'm a novice and it helped moi. Less than $10.................
My EX58 needed to be flashed out of the box, new bios do add better things. My P-45 mobo needed to be flashed out of the box. Both mobos were not state of the art when purchased.
I know you know more than me, but Tinkles wants to learn basics. I just give him something to run with. Both my mobos, flashed manually, defaulted to the floppy, since I had 1 installed. I would only suggest upgrading bios before OS is installed myself. He is gonna buy something slightly behind the times. Keeping it simple.
The self taught relating experiences to one who wants to self teach.
:salute
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I think I had to flash the BIOS on my motherboard (older Nvidia 780i) four or five times as Nvidia worked out some issues. It's been a great board once they got it right. I also used a floppy but would probably use a flash drive now. Floppys are obsolete.
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Back when people were still using Windows XP there was an actual need for a floppy drive if they wanted to install SATA drivers during the setup for example. But since Vista the setup has accepted also CDs as a source. Same sort of development has happened with motherboards, a floppy drive is obsolete.
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Thanks for the update on PSU's. Nevertheless, even they don't last forever, as I have noticed during these last 9 years earning my life supporting household computers. Thus, in the case of increased appetite in the form of overclocking and SLI'ing, a brand new PSU would be a good choice anyway. In the meantime some saving in the energy bill won't hurt anyone.
As for the floppy drive, I have one but haven't used it for years. My current build is about 7 years old now, upgraded here and there, and I can't remember when I have had the use of the floppy. Every reputable motherboard in the last 5 years or more has had the Windows application for flashing the BIOS along with the CD and USB-stick versions. Floppies really are obsolete! - One nice gadget fitting in its place is a memory card reader, if you like photographing.
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You guys are all professionals.
There is still a floppy bus on the boards, at least mine have them. 1st thing I do is put in only the basic components, so I can enter the bios and see which version is employed and to select the boards hardware defaults. If the board is somewhat out of date. If the manufacturer has a newer bios version available, I update them before doing anything else. Then prepare for the OS install.
Whats common place for y'all, is not for the OP. Shoot, a flash drive can be more expensive than a floppy. The OP's old computer prolly has a floppy still in it. He can DL the bios, extract to floppy with current machine and he is ready to flash the new board if required.
I had to flash my P-45 board from ver F4 to F12. I had to do it, multiple times, had to do it incrementally because it would not do the deed in one jump. I had prepared multiple floppy discs with each version. Very cheap, and stepped up the bios in a matter of minutes. Same with my X58.
The OP's on a tight budget, he prolly already has certain things on hand, he will prolly buy a slightly out of date board. He wants to learn. I just say keep it simple. Of course there are more modern methods, but.......................... .....
My i7 920 is a 2.67GHz cpu. Its clocked to 4GHz and its only aircooled. If I had asked in these forums how to do it, I would have been told not too I'll bet. Machines 5 years old, rock solid, expect to get another 5 years out of it. Theres many ways to look at things. For a novice I offer simplicity and cheap.
And I keep yapping so the OP can see what choices he can make, and prepare accordingly. Theres much more to just buying parts, he must make them work with minimal frustration, yes? Your alls responses also school him.
:salute
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My i7 920 is a 2.67GHz cpu. Its clocked to 4GHz and its only aircooled. If I had asked in these forums how to do it, I would have been told not too I'll bet.
That's a rather silly assumption on your part. A good number of us as OC'd, most on air, and I've helped many OC as have others.
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The only computer I had that still used a floppy drive was my ' ye ole ' windows 95. This one doesn't have a floppy-drive. Also, I don't plan on Overclocking, never done it, never seen a need.
:D
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That's a rather silly assumption on your part. A good number of us as OC'd, most on air, and I've helped many OC as have others.
True statement, I did make an assumption. I would not say silly tho. Many folks do consider OC'ing a none starter. Not worth the possible consequences. For me it was part of the learning process. I bought the 920 DO, it was meant to OC. Read a lot of crap when researching the components. Same reason I RAID'ed my SSD's. Learned about RAID usage and SSD's at same time. If I could only wrap my brain around writing software.............. :bhead
Tinkles, You OC to save dollars, IMO. I paid $286 for the i7 2.67GHz cpu. By pushing it to 4GHz, I got $1200 worth of performance. Around $1200 was what an i7 965 at 3.8GHz cost when I built this machine.
Once you get things together, use the new machine awhile. You very well might change your mind about OC'ing. Not saying you will, but its part of the knowledge progression. Knowledge is power, once you get it you want to use it and get more knowledge. If I was to start another build in future, and I prolly will. I would put a floppy in it if the mobo had a header for it. It just to easy and cheap. Obsolete or not.
Maybe its just me. I have been building things my whole life. Working as a builder/installer of stage plays, I have been exposed to a wide variety of materials and techniques. Wood, metal, plastics, fabrics, electronics, welding, woodworking, sewing, overhead rigging, machinery, it all same to me. I even build my own flight gear for the game. stick, peddles, throttle. I'm a master of nothing, but pretty dam good at everything.
When given a task, I learn what's needed to accomplish that task, then accomplish it. Building computers is no different.
Similar to a safe landing, its all in the approach.
:salute
good luck with you new machine.
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The only computer I had that still used a floppy drive was my ' ye ole ' windows 95. This one doesn't have a floppy-drive. Also, I don't plan on Overclocking, never done it, never seen a need.
:D
Words of wisdom! Although floppy drives are still available and motherboards still support them, floppies have become quite a rarity. I bought a couple packs several years ago when our local hypermarket dumped them. A quick search shows they now cost almost a dollar a piece! Blank CD's are much cheaper and more useful for various purposes. On one CD there'd even be space for literally hundreds of consecutive BIOS updates.
IMO overclocking should only take place as a last effort to elongate the life span of an eldering rig. There's always a risk in it. At the least you never can tell how high your very system can be clocked before trying. Building an underpowered computer compared to the current needs is short sighted saving. That said, there's nothing wrong with OC'ing per se, if your budget allows for voiding the warranty. Searching the limits of your computer is one hobby among others, and all hobbies have their cost.
Keeping it simple is sound advice!
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You guys are all professionals.
There is still a floppy bus on the boards, at least mine have them. 1st thing I do is put in only the basic components, so I can enter the bios and see which version is employed and to select the boards hardware defaults. If the board is somewhat out of date. If the manufacturer has a newer bios version available, I update them before doing anything else. Then prepare for the OS install.
Whats common place for y'all, is not for the OP. Shoot, a flash drive can be more expensive than a floppy. The OP's old computer prolly has a floppy still in it. He can DL the bios, extract to floppy with current machine and he is ready to flash the new board if required.
I had to flash my P-45 board from ver F4 to F12. I had to do it, multiple times, had to do it incrementally because it would not do the deed in one jump. I had prepared multiple floppy discs with each version. Very cheap, and stepped up the bios in a matter of minutes. Same with my X58.
The OP's on a tight budget, he prolly already has certain things on hand, he will prolly buy a slightly out of date board. He wants to learn. I just say keep it simple. Of course there are more modern methods, but.......................... .....
My i7 920 is a 2.67GHz cpu. Its clocked to 4GHz and its only aircooled. If I had asked in these forums how to do it, I would have been told not too I'll bet. Machines 5 years old, rock solid, expect to get another 5 years out of it. Theres many ways to look at things. For a novice I offer simplicity and cheap.
And I keep yapping so the OP can see what choices he can make, and prepare accordingly. Theres much more to just buying parts, he must make them work with minimal frustration, yes? Your alls responses also school him.
:salute
Flashing the bios is _not_ common place, you can kill your motherboard doing that if anything goes wrong. You should only update your bios if you know there is a problem. Sometimes new bios versions bring problems that were not in the old version for example.
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Flashing the bios is _not_ common place, you can kill your motherboard doing that if anything goes wrong. You should only update your bios if you know there is a problem. Sometimes new bios versions bring problems that were not in the old version for example.
I just have to disagree on this. Manufacturers put out bios updates for a reason.
All companies in the computer industry sell product before it has been fully vetted/tested, from Microsoft to hardware manufacturers.
Its a known quantity. There are no absolutes about this. Could there be problems, sure.
All you have to do is Google to see millions of questions and possible answers, possible techniques.
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That's a rather silly assumption on your part. A good number of us as OC'd, most on air, and I've helped many OC as have others.
where is you 'how to' thread about OC then?
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I just have to disagree on this. Manufacturers put out bios updates for a reason.
All companies in the computer industry sell product before it has been fully vetted/tested, from Microsoft to hardware manufacturers.
Its a known quantity. There are no absolutes about this. Could there be problems, sure.
All you have to do is Google to see millions of questions and possible answers, possible techniques.
You can disagree all you want. Bios flashing is one of the only things you can do that can potentially kill your hardware if anything goes wrong. Bad checksum on bios file? Dead mobo. Power cut during update? Dead mobo. Windows freezes during update? Dead mobo. Download wrong bios version by accident? Dead mobo. Bios installer fails during update? Dead mobo...
So no, you're not recommended to flash your bios unless there is a clear problem which the bios update is expected to fix. You know the old saying: Don't fix it if it ain't broken.
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where is you 'how to' thread about OC then?
I just did a forum search and found two pages of posts where I discuss overclocking CPU's, GPU's and RAM and I know there's more but the forum search won't work with OC. I don't have time to look through all of them so that's up to you.
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I just did a forum search and found two pages of posts where I discuss overclocking CPU's, GPU's and RAM and I know there's more but the forum search won't work with OC. I don't have time to look through all of them so that's up to you.
thx
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You can disagree all you want. Bios flashing is one of the only things you can do that can potentially kill your hardware if anything goes wrong. Bad checksum on bios file? Dead mobo. Power cut during update? Dead mobo. Windows freezes during update? Dead mobo. Download wrong bios version by accident? Dead mobo. Bios installer fails during update? Dead mobo...
So no, you're not recommended to flash your bios unless there is a clear problem which the bios update is expected to fix. You know the old saying: Don't fix it if it ain't broken.
ripley there's a zillion things you can do that can potentially kill your hardware if anything goes wrong. just going barefoot on the carpet before fixing your computer can potentially kill your mobo. installing/changing your video card can kill your mobo. using a bad ps can kill your mobo. you can damage your mobo installing a cpu.
it is not recommended to do a bios update from within windows. the chances of something going wrong increase. but if you read and do your homework, a bios update can fix some potential problems that you can have. all 3 mobos that I have owned have needed bios updates. from fixing problem with gaming mouse not working in bios to enhance/update some some bios functions.
chances are is that good portion of all mobos will need a bios update at one time or another. it's up to everyone to decide if they are willing to do it or not. it can safely be done but just like overclocking. sometimes crap happens.
semp
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ripley there's a zillion things you can do that can potentially kill your hardware if anything goes wrong. just going barefoot on the carpet before fixing your computer can potentially kill your mobo. installing/changing your video card can kill your mobo. using a bad ps can kill your mobo. you can damage your mobo installing a cpu.
it is not recommended to do a bios update from within windows. the chances of something going wrong increase. but if you read and do your homework, a bios update can fix some potential problems that you can have. all 3 mobos that I have owned have needed bios updates. from fixing problem with gaming mouse not working in bios to enhance/update some some bios functions.
chances are is that good portion of all mobos will need a bios update at one time or another. it's up to everyone to decide if they are willing to do it or not. it can safely be done but just like overclocking. sometimes crap happens.
semp
Obviously I wasn't talking about touching the hardware there :rolleyes:
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While flashing the BIOS might seem scarey to some (MrRipley for instance), other than a borked BIOS, only a total loss of power to your system is likely to cause a problem so don't do it during thunder, lightning, wind (including tornados and hurricanes), snow or ice storms or a fire, earthquake, volcanic eruption or other act of God or war and you should be ok.
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While flashing the BIOS might seem scarey to some (MrRipley for instance), other than a borked BIOS, only a total loss of power to your system is likely to cause a problem so don't do it during thunder, lightning, wind (including tornados and hurricanes), snow or ice storms or a fire, earthquake, volcanic eruption or other act of God or war and you should be ok.
The reason why a bios update is usually not advisable is that if the system operates normally there is nothing to gain from it. It's not like graphics driver updates that bring optimizations and fixes. So basically anyone flashing their bioses just for the fun of it are risking system malfunction for zero gains. Also the warranty won't cover the hardware if you mess it up updating the bios. Some newer motherboards have dual bioses which are safer in that respect that they have a fallsafe bios to go back to if you mess up the other one.
The mobos with a single bios can only be recovered by replacing the actual bios chip with a new one or have the original reflashed. But the cost of the fix is so high that you might as well get a new motherboard.
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(http://i785.photobucket.com/albums/yy138/spyknee/th_bios.jpg) (http://s785.photobucket.com/user/spyknee/media/bios.jpg.html)
These are all the bios revisions since my current board was released.
My board came with F4. Notice all the things the manufacturer noted for the revisions.
So sure, your machine is up and running and all appears to be fine. But if your a novice, running down issues it is tough enough finding the problem. How can you tell if its a bios issue or driver or software or even internet modem or connection. You have now stepped into the realm of "DIY". One trip to a computer fix it guy and you can spend that chunk of change you were trying to save.
A novice purchases an older board because its cheaper, puts his system together and something is off. How does he run it down efficiently. Hence my suggestion, 1st thing he does is get the bios for that board to the manufacturers lastest revision, before installing the OS or all the goodies. For the same reason I suggest getting a floppy and using it to manually update the bios, 1 revision at a time until you have the latest tested/non-beta revision in the board.
Install the cpu, the ram, the vid card, and the OS drive, put it in the case, hook up fans and a floppy. That's it. Get the bios right, get the basic hardware defaults right, make sure the mobo can operate in its simplest config.
Next install a cd/dvd drive and run mem test. Make sure the ram sticks have no errors.
Keep it simple. Idiot proof yourself. Do not rush. Take baby steps. Have your old puter there so you can get to the internet!
If you have probs at this stage either you have done something wrong or your new purchases are flawed.
Someone who is a professional or done it before....................... .......................
All manufacturers make disclaimers, from drug companies to computer companies. If you do not want personal independence, heed the disclaimers, buy a pre-built system. But if you are adventurous.................. ........
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One suggestion for getting closer to your price goal:
Dell Inspiron 660 (i5-3340 processor): $530 (through the small-office section of Dell.com)
GeForce GTX 650 Ti graphics card: $130 (I like Gigabyte brand and would be willing to try MSi brand, from Newegg.com or TigerDirect.com) -- or GTX 650 Ti Boost if you can get one for about $160
Seasonic 600 W power supply: $65 (or some other reputable 600 W power supply, maybe Thermaltake, from Newegg.com)
total = $725
This system will run AH at 60 fps with all settings except the reflections slider (or whatever it's called) maxed out. My system already does that, and my system is significantly infersior to this system listed above.
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Although I appreciate MrRipley's knowledge, I have to second MADe in this question. Some motherboards get launched way before their BIOSes have reached maturity, especially the gamer-oriented ones with plenty of bells and whistles. If the manufacturer wants to get their new killer product on the market at a certain season, they sometimes just aren't quite finished and/or thoroughly tested. Motherboards are just like any other computer related things, you've got to be on the market the same time as your competitor or rather a bit earlier. The same has been seen with videocards, processors and even operating systems - Windows, tested by users!
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Thank you guys for all the input, if you have anymore keep it coming :)
Still 4 months away from getting this rig though, so any suggestions are still welcome :aok
Happy New Year
:airplane:
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(http://i785.photobucket.com/albums/yy138/spyknee/th_bios.jpg) (http://s785.photobucket.com/user/spyknee/media/bios.jpg.html)
These are all the bios revisions since my current board was released.
My board came with F4. Notice all the things the manufacturer noted for the revisions.
So sure, your machine is up and running and all appears to be fine. But if your a novice, running down issues it is tough enough finding the problem. How can you tell if its a bios issue or driver or software or even internet modem or connection. You have now stepped into the realm of "DIY". One trip to a computer fix it guy and you can spend that chunk of change you were trying to save.
A novice purchases an older board because its cheaper, puts his system together and something is off. How does he run it down efficiently. Hence my suggestion, 1st thing he does is get the bios for that board to the manufacturers lastest revision, before installing the OS or all the goodies. For the same reason I suggest getting a floppy and using it to manually update the bios, 1 revision at a time until you have the latest tested/non-beta revision in the board.
Install the cpu, the ram, the vid card, and the OS drive, put it in the case, hook up fans and a floppy. That's it. Get the bios right, get the basic hardware defaults right, make sure the mobo can operate in its simplest config.
Next install a cd/dvd drive and run mem test. Make sure the ram sticks have no errors.
Keep it simple. Idiot proof yourself. Do not rush. Take baby steps. Have your old puter there so you can get to the internet!
If you have probs at this stage either you have done something wrong or your new purchases are flawed.
Someone who is a professional or done it before....................... .......................
All manufacturers make disclaimers, from drug companies to computer companies. If you do not want personal independence, heed the disclaimers, buy a pre-built system. But if you are adventurous.................. ........
As you notice you probably didn't need _any_ of the improvements listed, unless you decided to upgrade your rig to a 6-core i7 or decided to use a ram type that was not previously supported.
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Thank you guys for all the input, if you have anymore keep it coming :)
Still 4 months away from getting this rig though, so any suggestions are still welcome :aok
Happy New Year
:airplane:
Happy New Year!
I'd suggest you to compile setups and send them here for evaluation in the meanwhile. That would serve both you to get an idea about what to look for in your future build, as well as the rest of us keeping with the pace of the eternally evolving components. :salute
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As you notice you probably didn't need _any_ of the improvements listed, unless you decided to upgrade your rig to a 6-core i7 or decided to use a ram type that was not previously supported.
enhanced memory capability
enhanced cpu microcode
enhanced audio efficiency....yada yada
How does a novice know what he needs? Maybe he purchased memory that needed the flash, unbeknownst to him.
I flashed up the 1st thing as I recommended.
The op asked for knowledge, you offer dogma. Sure would hate to have you as a teacher.
Tinkles as I said take things with a grain of salt. Find multiple sources that corroborate each other.
The board you selected 1st is already out of date. It has been discontinued at Newegg, so..................
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enhanced memory capability
enhanced cpu microcode
enhanced audio efficiency....yada yada
How does a novice know what he needs? Maybe he purchased memory that needed the flash, unbeknownst to him.
I flashed up the 1st thing as I recommended.
The op asked for knowledge, you offer dogma. Sure would hate to have you as a teacher.
Tinkles as I said take things with a grain of salt. Find multiple sources that corroborate each other.
The board you selected 1st is already out of date. It has been discontinued at Newegg, so..................
Yes yada yada yada. Novice updates bios without knowing what he is doing. Novice causes more damage than anything else as a result. Novice updates beta bioses that may be unstable and cause more problems than anything else.
A bios is not something that will magically turn on the 'turbo' mode on your motherboard. If your hardware works, do not attempt to break it by updating the bios for nothing.
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Yes yada yada yada. Novice updates bios without knowing what he is doing. Novice causes more damage than anything else as a result. Novice updates beta bioses that may be unstable and cause more problems than anything else.
A bios is not something that will magically turn on the 'turbo' mode on your motherboard. If your hardware works, do not attempt to break it by updating the bios for nothing.
dude a novice can just damage his mobo by installing a video card. I built my first computer without knowing what I was doing. I updated my first bios scared as hell but it did say in the notes that it came with enhanced ram compatibility. I had no problems with my ram. computer ran faster after bios update. didnt know it would do that.
right now the latest bios for my mobo indicates that it will "enhance pci-e display card performance". I have no problems right now, but how will I know if it improves performance?
semp
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dude a novice can just damage his mobo by installing a video card. I built my first computer without knowing what I was doing. I updated my first bios scared as hell but it did say in the notes that it came with enhanced ram compatibility. I had no problems with my ram. computer ran faster after bios update. didnt know it would do that.
right now the latest bios for my mobo indicates that it will "enhance pci-e display card performance". I have no problems right now, but how will I know if it improves performance?
semp
An unnecessary bios update is just that, unnecessary. And because every bios update has a risk of bricking the motherboard there is no sensible reason why to do one. There has to be a known problem first in order to update the bios - IF that problem has been documented as fixed in the new version.
Of course if you want to play russian roulette with your hardware its your own business lol.
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An unnecessary bios update is just that, unnecessary. And because every bios update has a risk of bricking the motherboard there is no sensible reason why to do one. There has to be a known problem first in order to update the bios - IF that problem has been documented as fixed in the new version.
Of course if you want to play russian roulette with your hardware its your own business lol.
do you understand the difference between necessary and enhanced? enhance means it will improve not that you have a problem, but it will improve something. and anything you do with your system has the risk of bricking your motherboard..
semp
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do you understand the difference between necessary and enhanced? enhance means it will improve not that you have a problem, but it will improve something. and anything you do with your system has the risk of bricking your motherboard..
semp
You don't seem to understand what 'enhanced' means when talking about stuff like memory compatibility. It simply means the board supports more types of memory after that. It does not mean that all previously working memory got a turbo boost. So if your setup was working before, no need to update the bios.
The only situation where a bios update is reasonable when you have a working base set up already, is when sometimes (rarely) a bug is found in a release version bios that affects performance. But this kind of situations are very rare. Most bios updates just add support for hardware which didn't exist when the board was originally built.
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I'm a novice, yet my machine has worked from the get go. A novice giving what worked for him to another novice.
There is more to building a machine than buying parts and plugging them in. Tinkles said he wanted to learn, well myself and others are trying to give him things to investigate. It seems more important to you to be right than to give him the tools to question his choices and know where to start if things do not function right and/or well.
Bios updates are no big deal, period. Its software, like drivers, like OS's, like the game. All of which he is choosing to deal with if he builds his own machine. Should he be wary, absolutely, should he be scared, absolutely not!
The modern hardware development is so far ahead of software development its sad. This comes from the CEO of Intel.
So Tinkles learn m8, your plate is gonna get full as you move forward. :salute
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I'm a novice, yet my machine has worked from the get go. A novice giving what worked for him to another novice.
There is more to building a machine than buying parts and plugging them in. Tinkles said he wanted to learn, well myself and others are trying to give him things to investigate. It seems more important to you to be right than to give him the tools to question his choices and know where to start if things do not function right and/or well.
Bios updates are no big deal, period. Its software, like drivers, like OS's, like the game. All of which he is choosing to deal with if he builds his own machine. Should he be wary, absolutely, should he be scared, absolutely not!
The modern hardware development is so far ahead of software development its sad. This comes from the CEO of Intel.
So Tinkles learn m8, your plate is gonna get full as you move forward. :salute
You're giving bad advice there. Bios updates are something you should never do unnecessarily. Perhaps you can buy him a new machine when he manages to brick his first and only computer? LOL!
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:bhead
sad, sad, sad.
Your opinion is no more valid than mine. You have no more proof than me. Go ahead and scare him if you need too. I just gave him things to research as did the others. You just need to be right, so your right.................. :noid
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:bhead
sad, sad, sad.
Your opinion is no more valid than mine. You have no more proof than me. Go ahead and scare him if you need too. I just gave him things to research as did the others. You just need to be right, so your right.................. :noid
Uhm you said you're a novice. I'm a professional with more than a decade of experience (actually more than two decades if you count pre-PC). Perhaps that makes a small difference? If you don't take my word for it, how about these:
http://www.howtogeek.com/136881/htg-explains-do-you-need-to-update-your-computers-bios/
Note
Update the BIOS on your computer only if the newer BIOS version specifically solves a problem you have. Intel does not recommend BIOS updates for computers that do not need it. You can view all new BIOS fixes in the release notes included on the BIOS download page in Download Center.
Downgrading the BIOS to an earlier version is not recommended and might not be supported. An earlier BIOS version might not provide important fixes, critical security updates, or support the latest board revisions currently being manufactured.
Before initiating a BIOS update, be sure to read and precisely follow the update instructions. You can open and print any PDF file from the online instructions table for easy reference.
All images in the examples used in the instructions are for illustration purposes only. You need to select the correct BIOS files for your Intel NUC.
If a BIOS update process is interrupted, your computer might not function properly. Intel suggests the process be done in an environment with a steady power supply (preferably with UPS).
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Ripley,
The gentleman wanted to know "an" approach to building his own machine.
The point is to give him info that he can research on his own, so he can make "his" choices. I told him "my" choices.
Choices that worked for "me", multiple times. I have yet to give a dime to a computer tech builder/fixer, or a computer builder/fixer company.
You want to be critical, so be it.
As I said, there's more to it than matching components. If "I" can do it, anyone can do it.
The technology has changed, its been made easier, its what sells computer components. But they do not sell the "how to apply it", do they. If I had chosen to listen to advice by all the nay sayers in forums, I would have learned squat, I would have been paying thousands more for my computers.
:salute
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Ripley,
The gentleman wanted to know "an" approach to building his own machine.
The point is to give him info that he can research on his own, so he can make "his" choices. I told him "my" choices.
Choices that worked for "me", multiple times. I have yet to give a dime to a computer tech builder/fixer, or a computer builder/fixer company.
You want to be critical, so be it.
As I said, there's more to it than matching components. If "I" can do it, anyone can do it.
The technology has changed, its been made easier, its what sells computer components. But they do not sell the "how to apply it", do they. If I had chosen to listen to advice by all the nay sayers in forums, I would have learned squat, I would have been paying thousands more for my computers.
:salute
Yep keep doing unnecessary updates untill you fry your mobo for all I care.
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Yep keep doing unnecessary updates untill you fry your mobo for all I care.
lmao, just half to have the last word don't ya.
I suggested nothing I have not done myself first, have not done a bios update since I built the machine. Got them right at the outset, moved on.
You said once you could not use SSD's with XP. I do. Who cares if you got 20 years of doing nothing but by the book.
You must live in a box, no windows and a calendar dated 1990. I do not think I have read 1 post from you that offered any op any real help, just control freak dogma.
(http://i785.photobucket.com/albums/yy138/spyknee/th_WEI.jpg) (http://s785.photobucket.com/user/spyknee/media/WEI.jpg.html)
Must just kill you that a self taught person can build a machine, a good machine and fairly cheap ta'boot. LMAO
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lmao, just half to have the last word don't ya.
I suggested nothing I have not done myself first, have not done a bios update since I built the machine. Got them right at the outset, moved on.
You said once you could not use SSD's with XP. I do. Who cares if you got 20 years of doing nothing but by the book.
You must live in a box, no windows and a calendar dated 1990. I do not think I have read 1 post from you that offered any op any real help, just control freak dogma.
(http://i785.photobucket.com/albums/yy138/spyknee/th_WEI.jpg) (http://s785.photobucket.com/user/spyknee/media/WEI.jpg.html)
Must just kill you that a self taught person can build a machine, a good machine and fairly cheap ta'boot. LMAO
I never said you CANT use SSD with XP I said it's not a good idea as XP lacks TRIM. If you don't have TRIM your SSD can clog up with stale blocks and your expensive hardware becomes as slow as a 5200rpm laptop drive. That's really smart use of your money isn't it?
You sound like the guy who crossed the Atlantic in a rubber dingy. Yeah, he did it so he can recommend it to everyone instead of taking the Queen Mary II or a 380 lol.
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Is it just me or is Dingy a funny word :rofl
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Is it just me or is Dingy a funny word :rofl
I do agree, Dingy is a funny word :lol
As for the computer build. My ancient machine is in the shop due to repairs (more like bandaides and ducttape to keep it hobbiling along until April when it dies) . The computer guy who is working on it now, will be assisting me (and eventually be reading) all these posts and see if the setups and recommendations are 'worthy'/'necessary'. So I'm not entirely alone here, but I still appreciate the effort to assist and educate. :aok
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Dingy!
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I never said you CANT use SSD with XP I said it's not a good idea as XP lacks TRIM. If you don't have TRIM your SSD can clog up with stale blocks and your expensive hardware becomes as slow as a 5200rpm laptop drive. That's really smart use of your money isn't it?
You sound like the guy who crossed the Atlantic in a rubber dingy. Yeah, he did it so he can recommend it to everyone instead of taking the Queen Mary II or a 380 lol.
SSD's do not need trim. Firmware takes care of that. That is if your willing to flash the FW with the manufacturers upgrades.
But you do not upgrade your hardware, remember.
You really should get a new calendar, its 2014 now. Maybe read some literature on modern equipment. Trim does not function with a RAID array either.
I know I do not have all the answers. That's why I still try to learn.
(http://i785.photobucket.com/albums/yy138/spyknee/th_ATTO3diskRAID0.jpg) (http://s785.photobucket.com/user/spyknee/media/ATTO3diskRAID0.jpg.html)
5+ year old SSD's. I do not think their clogged.
The Queen Mary is a museum now. Beautiful old gal, I used to watch her come into port. That is the original Queen Mary anyways. She's haunted as well.
Tinkles,
Sorry to hear your game machine is down. Hope you do not have to burn a lot of cash. The old rig will be quite useful if you still plan to build your own. The internet will be invaluable as to answering questions that come up. Remember to corroborate everything tho, do not settle for just 1 stated answer, including mine. Get a dozen.
After you decide on a set of hardware, double and triple check that they will work with mobo selection. The mobo manufacturer should have a QVL on board. Quality Vendors List, will tell you what brand ram has been tested by manufacturer for your mobo selection. TBH, I would not get anything older than a Intel X-58 chipset board. It uses QPI, no FSB. I found them easier to deal with.
Look at the PCI-E slot layout, big vid cards have a tendency to cover up other PCI slots. All depends on your extended plan for new machine. ie: sound card............many ducks to line up....................
Also make sure you keep "all" purchase receipts and register "all" components with the manufacturer right away. You could be sold bad hardware, you never know. If you manage to brick the hardware by carelessness or ignorance, they "might" allow you an RMA'ed replacement.
Part of the duck thing..........
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so I guess tinkles' dingy is coming up? i wonder how ripley found that out :noid.
semp
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SSD's do not need trim. Firmware takes care of that.
Uhh you're wrong. TRIM is essential for your drive health. If you rely on garbage collection only you need to leave your computer powered and idle for several hours. And if you haven't disabled windows updates etc. chances are your computer won't go idle at any time when you think it should be idle.
The only way to make sure garbage collection will activate is to power up the drive for hours without the sata connected if you use a windows machine.
On garbage collection only and especially using small drives you may get your drive stale.
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Unfortunately trim does not work for some 6gb SATA controllers (example : my marwell 91xx) regardless of OS.
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Unfortunately trim does not work for some 6gb SATA controllers (example : my marwell 91xx) regardless of OS.
According to Gigabyte: "Marvel SE9128 controller can support TRIM command only with Win7 built-in driver, however, Win7 built-in driver doesn’t support SATA hot plug. With Marvell’s own driver, it doesn’t support TRIM command, but it enables hot plug."
So as long as you use the built in driver your trim works fine.
Edit: Of course I don't know if the above applies for all 91xx series.
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Uhh you're wrong. TRIM is essential for your drive health. If you rely on garbage collection only you need to leave your computer powered and idle for several hours. And if you haven't disabled windows updates etc. chances are your computer won't go idle at any time when you think it should be idle.
The only way to make sure garbage collection will activate is to power up the drive for hours without the sata connected if you use a windows machine.
On garbage collection only and especially using small drives you may get your drive stale.
Garbage collection will be enabled whether in single drive usage or RAID usage. In my experience with Vector it is robust and tends to maintain performance with or without trim functioning. I wouldn't see any need to force it via safemode or bios idle time, log off will be great and even idle at desktop works well on these drives. The need for garbage collection will depend on usage habits; I write between 10-20GB/day onto a single Vector and never see performance drops even with routine benchmarking via ATTO or AS SSD. I don't logoff or do anything special to maintain performance under this usage scenario.
http://www.ocztechnologyforum.com/forum/showthread.php?108504-Garbage-collection-in-raid-0-setup&highlight=FW+1.7+and+Garbage+Collection
Ripley(H) believe him or not. he he
Silly man, always feel a need to over shadow others.
Like I said, I only comment on what I have actually done. I do not comment on forum posts, I have only read. Self taught and still self teaching.
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Garbage collection will be enabled whether in single drive usage or RAID usage. In my experience with Vector it is robust and tends to maintain performance with or without trim functioning. I wouldn't see any need to force it via safemode or bios idle time, log off will be great and even idle at desktop works well on these drives. The need for garbage collection will depend on usage habits; I write between 10-20GB/day onto a single Vector and never see performance drops even with routine benchmarking via ATTO or AS SSD. I don't logoff or do anything special to maintain performance under this usage scenario.
http://www.ocztechnologyforum.com/forum/showthread.php?108504-Garbage-collection-in-raid-0-setup&highlight=FW+1.7+and+Garbage+Collection
Ripley(H) believe him or not. he he
Silly man, always feel a need to over shadow others.
Like I said, I only comment on what I have actually done. I do not comment on forum posts, I have only read. Self taught and still self teaching.
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Just because YOU don't have a problem with your specific drive doesn't mean others won't have. Your results will vary depending on your usage scenarios and the SSD model used. Especially older generation drives (you know, when XP was still popular) were not functioning well without trim. What trim basically does is inform the garbage collection on OS level about changes in the filesystem so that the drive can more efficiently perform wear leveling and garbage collection. If trim is not used the wear leveling will not function as efficiently as possible (leading to a shorter life) and the drive will need a routine idle time to perform internal garbace collection.
Also Windows XP does not contain any optimization for SSD, it will treat the SSD as a regular HDD. Windows Vista and newer OSes disable multiple functions automatically to preserve the SSD.
So, keep doing needless BIOS updates and abusing your hardware in any imaginable ways you can fathom for all I care. You pay what you break :D
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So now you know more than the manufacturer. lmao
What needless bios update are you referring too? Gigabyte just updates their bios revisions because there is nothing better to do.
You must hunt with a shotgun. So what's your non info really all about? oh I keep forgetting, your the only one that's right, my error.
Tinkles,
Ripley is obviously a computer tech who needs work. So I regret to inform you that you cannot not build your own puter, you do not have the required intellect or 20 years of computer engineering experience, so sorry, you must contract Ripley computer builders, and pay him.
Me either, but ignorant moi did it anyways, oops. Signature machine pushing 6 years, will be working in 2020.
Ripley, believe him or not.
I know I should not keep feeding the beast, but the non-useful rhetoric just makes me ROF&L. OMG, my machine just imploded. China Syndrome in progress. :O
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So now you know more than the manufacturer. lmao
What needless bios update are you referring too? Gigabyte just updates their bios revisions because there is nothing better to do.
You must hunt with a shotgun. So what's your non info really all about? oh I keep forgetting, your the only one that's right, my error.
Tinkles,
Ripley is obviously a computer tech who needs work. So I regret to inform you that you cannot not build your own puter, you do not have the required intellect or 20 years of computer engineering experience, so sorry, you must contract Ripley computer builders, and pay him.
Me either, but ignorant moi did it anyways, oops. Signature machine pushing 6 years, will be working in 2020.
Ripley, believe him or not.
I know I should not keep feeding the beast, but the non-useful rhetoric just makes me ROF&L. OMG, my machine just imploded. China Syndrome in progress. :O
Which manufacturer again recommends you to do bios updates on a working machine? Which manufacturer tells you you don't need TRIM when you run SSDs and says XP is perfectly fine for longevity?
Which part of the Intel quote which recommended NOT to make bios updates for nothing did you not understand?
You're right in one thing. Tinkles should never build machines following your advice.
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Ripley believe him or not.
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Ripley believe him or not.
Just answer the questions or shut up.
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I wish for world peace.
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Dingy!
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Just answer the questions or shut up.
You should take your own advice. You have yet to offer the op anything. You only criticize those that have offered him something to research. Take things out of context and generally gainsay anyone else.
The world is flat, the sun revolves around the earth, and if man was meant to fly, he would have wings.
Ripley's believe it or not. I choose not.
Oh and my machine still works. he he
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You should take your own advice. You have yet to offer the op anything. You only criticize those that have offered him something to research. Take things out of context and generally gainsay anyone else.
The world is flat, the sun revolves around the earth, and if man was meant to fly, he would have wings.
Ripley's believe it or not. I choose not.
Oh and my machine still works. he he
Your giving advice thats against manufacturer recommendations and best practices and then you have the odassity to give attitude also lol. You're some work.
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Your giving advice thats against manufacturer recommendations and best practices and then you have the odassity to give attitude also lol. You're some work.
audacity
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audacity
Thanks, English is my third language.
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What does the title of Tinkles thread ask for, "ADVICE".
I offered Tinkles things to research. I offered nothing I do not do myself, and I qualified my response's by stating to double and triple check what I stated I did. He is an adult and can make his own decisions based on what he researches on his own. Manufacturers make "disclaimers", then provide updates for their products.
My machines still here. Still works and will continue to work until its out of date, which it already is!
Just because you cannot update mobo bios without bricking a board, means nothing to the rest of us who can. Yes, I do dare, I have dared and will continue to dare. Nothing audacious about it, its what people do, its why we learn, progress and move forward. The offer of "NO" advice, gainsaying others, is merely ego oriented fluff. You have spent how many posts, saying the same thing, nothing. All you do is guarantee he will shell out cash to your kind. I sir do not! Have yet too and will not ever.
I believe 1 definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting a different result. How those shoes fit m8?
Ripley's believe it or not. I do not believe.
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LOL you're just uncureable. I rest my case.
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LOL you're just uncureable. I rest my case.
Its "incurable". You have no idea. I was not aware you made a case.
If I was to listen to only your kind of thought process, I would have not learned how to do anything. I build things, all kinds of things, and when I'm finished with a project, it usually works, and works well. All my computers still work.
Life is a risk, I do not, not do things because someone states it cannot or should not be done. You should try it sometime, its quite rewarding to think outside the box.
My world and your welcome to join it. American born and bred, there's a reason America became the best nation on the planet, its not perfect, but I would not trade it for any other nation.
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Its "incurable". You have no idea. I was not aware you made a case.
If I was to listen to only your kind of thought process, I would have not learned how to do anything. I build things, all kinds of things, and when I'm finished with a project, it usually works, and works well. All my computers still work.
Life is a risk, I do not, not do things because someone states it cannot or should not be done. You should try it sometime, its quite rewarding to think outside the box.
My world and your welcome to join it. American born and bred, there's a reason America became the best nation on the planet, its not perfect, but I would not trade it for any other nation.
ROFL :rofl
Is this guy for real? You're very funny you know.
Like this guy who MADe (http://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/863000-flashing-bios-does-it-void-my-warranty/) a mistake and fried his bios AND his warranty with an unnecessary update. This is where people end up if they listen to likes of MADe.
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See Rule #4
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See Rule #4
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ripley manufacturers recommend you get a warranty all the time. do you?
whenever you build sometime there's always a chance you gonna fry it. manufacturers recommend you get somebody "experienced" to do your built.
what you fail to understand is that manufacturers just want to cover their azzzes by saying you shouldnt do this or do that, but at the same time saying "...but if you do, btw, here's the software..."
it all falls under product liability. just like htc mentioning in their websites that they dont recommend rooting their phones and if you do it voids their warranty. however if you device to root it, this is how you do ti. and they post explicit instructions on how to do it.
semp
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See Rule #4
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See Rule #4
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See Rule #4
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See Rule #4
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Either way it appears, quick perusal, that the guy tried to update a store bought machine already working, with OS installed.
So? I once updated the BIOs on an old "store bought" Dell that was already working and had the OS installed so I could install a newer generation processor.
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See Rule #4
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See Rule #4
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I will make this very clear.
If any of you cannot interact with others without making derogatory remarks, you will find yourself on the wrong end of a ban stick. No threat. Just giving you a heads up.
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I will make this very clear.
If any of you cannot interact with others without making derogatory remarks, you will find yourself on the wrong end of a ban stick. No threat. Just giving you a heads up.
I do apologize Skuzzy and Tinkles. I'm just tired of being gain sayed. I just told Tinkles what worked for me.
I did try to answer what was asked, "Getting prepared for 1st build, need advice".