Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: NikonGuy on January 01, 2014, 02:26:13 AM
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Who hear thinks ENY should be controlled by numbers in flight not numbers connected?
All too often for all sides there will be 50 connected but one chess piece may only have 10 in flight where the other two chess pieces have 40 in flight.
Thoughts?
Apologies if this subject has been covered before, I am sure it most likely has.
NG
:salute
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IMO, ENY should be dictated by your total number relative to that of the country with the lowest numbers.
If you have 40 more players total, then congrats, you'll be flying P-40's and 110C 's until some people change sides or those who refuse to fly anything but their pony or fly for another country log off.
No more having your cookie and eating it too.
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ENY? Watch how fast I don't care.
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:rofl
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:rofl
:old:
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The problem with basing it on numbers in flight is that it potentially leads to big missions having access to lower ENY aircraft than their side's numbers in flight should allow.
B: 160 total, 110 in flight
K: 100 total, 90 in flight
R: 130 total, 115 in flight
Then one second later a 45 player Bishop P-51 mission launches and:
B: 160 total, 155 in flight
K: 100 total, 90 in flight
R: 130 total, 115 in flight
Now no other Bishop can launch a P-51D, but those 45 guys all got P-51Ds to go after the Knights.
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IMO, ENY should be dictated by your total number relative to that of the country with the lowest numbers.
that's how it is.
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ENY? Watch how fast I don't care.
Heh.
- oldman
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ENY? Watch how fast I don't care.
:rofl
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Can't have it that way.
Base takers will gather in the tower to lop side the numbers which would normally force higher ENY, but because of your system allow low ENY;
All burst out of the hanger at the same time in low ENY aircraft. Not only in high numbers but in better rated aircraft.
But mind you with the lax ENY system we have along side the 12 hours rule... barely makes any difference to how it is now... *shrugs*
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ENY means nothing.
Just because a banana can't take up his "precious" La7, P51D, Spit16, or other such easy mode plane does not mean the sun won't rise tomorrow morning. There are a host of other planes that offer the same results with 90% of the ability yet take a wee bit more patience to fly (La5, F6F, Spit IX).
I actually think ENY should kick in quicker and the scale should be more dynamic. On the same token I say lower the side switch time to 2 or 3 hours so "We the players" can self regulate the balance.
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I guess to be more specific, I live in Australia so end up online in your am hours when I am lucky if there are 50 players total. Whats common practice is to have a fair number of those players connected but AFK. One guy I know of in my old squad was connected for nearly 3 months but was never there. Another player last weekend was on our vox channel for 3 days AFK.
If these numbers mount for any side it can easily push a 23 ENY when numbers are so low at that time of the night.
Maybe the answer is if a player is not active for more than an hour they get disconnected.
<S>
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I guess to be more specific, I live in Australia so end up online in your am hours when I am lucky if there are 50 players total. Whats common practice is to have a fair number of those players connected but AFK. One guy I know of in my old squad was connected for nearly 3 months but was never there. Another player last weekend was on our vox channel for 3 days AFK.
If these numbers mount for any side it can easily push a 23 ENY when numbers are so low at that time of the night.
Maybe the answer is if a player is not active for more than an hour they get disconnected.
<S>
All of your suggestions so far have been asked repeatedly. But the minority keep showing themselves and saying "nay" so it doesn't happen.
Although.. HTC makes the final decision and still hasn't done so, perhaps it would be beneficial to mention why they haven't changed anything (looks at HTC). :angel:
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I am a little confused as to why there's a mechanic to encourage side switching, ENY, and then one that strongly discourages it, a 12 hour country lock.
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(http://i343.photobucket.com/albums/o460/caldera_08/Aces%20High%20Motivational%20Posters/eny.jpg)
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IMHO I think you're right. After an hour you should booted.
:cheers:
I guess to be more specific, I live in Australia so end up online in your am hours when I am lucky if there are 50 players total. Whats common practice is to have a fair number of those players connected but AFK. One guy I know of in my old squad was connected for nearly 3 months but was never there. Another player last weekend was on our vox channel for 3 days AFK.
If these numbers mount for any side it can easily push a 23 ENY when numbers are so low at that time of the night.
Maybe the answer is if a player is not active for more than an hour they get disconnected.
<S>
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I stick with the idea that ENY should be partially controlled by the number of each model in the air.
That being said, it seems to me that P51D's flyers are effected by ENY more than any other plane due to the numbers in use.
ENY doesn't bother me much. I just take out a P38J.
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Must be a bish or rook thing. Flew a whole tour in 262s and only remember a couple of sorties where I was locked out do to ENY.
but I have to say that's effect on side balancing is dubious. If someone is hording and rolling bases the ENY really stop them? IF not, then why bother? It see,s to add more confusion and frustration than it solves problems. Yes, yes, someone will no doubt come on and exalt the merits of the system, but it's only theory. Is there any data or proof that it effects war outcome? IF not, just retire it.
:salute
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but I have to say that's effect on side balancing is dubious. If someone is hording and rolling bases the ENY really stop them? IF not, then why bother? It see,s to add more confusion and frustration than it solves problems. Yes, yes, someone will no doubt come on and exalt the merits of the system, but it's only theory. Is there any data or proof that it effects war outcome? IF not, just retire it.
There seems to be a common perception that ENY limiter is aiming at balancing the arenas by balancing player numbers between countries.
It is not, and it could never be like that considering most players are very much country loyal. At worst, most of them would either simply log off or sit in tower hoping for eny to drop (the latter is often a source of confusion: many think AFK players are driving ENY up while it's often the opposite - high ENY makes 'em stay in tower).
ENY limiter is just handicapping the high number side. We could argue if that handicap is severe enough (IMHO it's not), but then it's again a matter of overall balance - Let ENY kick in too soon and too harsh and players on that side will leave in disgust. But remove it totally and put no limits on the country that amounts to, say, 50% of the population, and see how all the other players are logging of angrily.
Both ain't good for AH...
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Of late, I haven't found ENY to be a problem, not like it use to be though. I have become a 47M dweeb and I think it's ENY is 5. It doesn't really anger me as long as it's under 20. There are plenty of capable rides under 25, and the more targets the funner it is.
The system seems to work ok like it is.
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There seems to be a common perception that ENY limiter is aiming at balancing the arenas by balancing player numbers between countries.
It is not, and it could never be like that considering most players are very much country loyal. At worst, most of them would either simply log off or sit in tower hoping for eny to drop (the latter is often a source of confusion: many think AFK players are driving ENY up while it's often the opposite - high ENY makes 'em stay in tower).
ENY limiter is just handicapping the high number side. We could argue if that handicap is severe enough (IMHO it's not), but then it's again a matter of overall balance - Let ENY kick in too soon and too harsh and players on that side will leave in disgust. But remove it totally and put no limits on the country that amounts to, say, 50% of the population, and see how all the other players are logging of angrily.
Both ain't good for AH...
I'm dubious that ENY stops the second proposition here. When a horde hits and your out numbered and want to log off in disgust, does it matter what planes they are flying? Does anyone even notice? So instead of Ponies and lalas, they show up in Lightnings, and 109s, and Corsairs. Those that hate being horded are still going to leave. Yes, I think it is to handicap the side with more people, but half the arena isn't playing the WAR game anyway, they are having their own little battle in some corner of the map and could care less what the side balance is. They just know they can't take the tank or plane they want, and they're mad.
I just think its effect on the affected side is a marketing negative in a very large way. Its positive effect on the non-affected sides is minuscule and practically immeasurable. Except in a mild psychological way.."we're way outnumbered but at least they are getting screwed by ENY" That hardly seems like a positive thing.
I think its a net win to eliminate the handicapping. just my opinion. :salute
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Vinkman, if it were as harsh as I'd like, they'll only have the G lightning, and the bomber with the most ord will be the HE-111.
No ENY won't stop joker raids with a quick P-38 raid to take out hangers. But then, I've found that the people who engage in such missions suck, and are easily dealt with if anything more than token defense is put up.
But it will stop the hordes that try to overwhelm ready defenders with weight of numbers.
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But it will stop the hordes that try to overwhelm ready defenders with weight of numbers.
How? it doesn't stop the numbers, only what planes they will overwhelm you with. correct? :salute
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How? it doesn't stop the numbers, only what planes they will overwhelm you with. correct? :salute
Even the MINNoWAR could survive in a horde of ENY 35 aircraft.
Alone, I doubt very much if anyone could stop even a horde of B5N's. But in a horde vs group of defenders, ENY would be a very effective method of control.
Also remember that the horde would shrink as the undesirables sit in the tower of log off.
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How? it doesn't stop the numbers, only what planes they will overwhelm you with. correct? :salute
A horde of P-40s is substantially easier to stop than a horde of P-51Ds, so while there is still a horde it is much easier to stop when your side is flying Spitfire Mk XVIs and La-7s and the enemy outnumbers you in their P-40Ns.
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A horde of P-40s is substantially easier to stop than a horde of P-51Ds, so while there is still a horde it is much easier to stop when your side is flying Spitfire Mk XVIs and La-7s and the enemy outnumbers you in their P-40Ns.
yes. But...whether it's theoretically easier misses the point.
The point is whether it makes more people happy than it pisses off. :salute
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A horde of P-40s is substantially easier to stop than a horde of P-51Ds, so while there is still a horde it is much easier to stop when your side is flying Spitfire Mk XVIs and La-7s and the enemy outnumbers you in their P-40Ns.
But that's based on the assumption that both sides will be flying the best possible aircraft they're able to. Plenty of people, particularly who like to defend in my experience tend to have the planes they like, and they're not all that terribly often 5 ENY birds. More in the 10-15 range.
Still better than P40's, but if the numbers are that disparate, it truly doesn't matter much what they're flying.
Wiley.
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I am a little confused as to why there's a mechanic to encourage side switching, ENY, and then one that strongly discourages it, a 12 hour country lock.
That makes two of us, but ENY's penalty is mostly an illusion:
(http://i343.photobucket.com/albums/o460/caldera_08/ahss3.jpg~original) (http://s343.photobucket.com/user/caldera_08/media/ahss3.jpg.html)
ENY is effectively neutered unless the advantage is monumentally large. If the 12 hour rule was "86ed" and ENY kicked in much sooner, the paranoid horde mongering country loyalists would probably just log off. They want their late war monsters - and their hordes too. People who spend significant time in subpar rides are a minority and side switchers even less so.
Forcing people to either switch sides to fly their ride, or stay and fight in something sub-leet would just piss most people off.
HTC probably has to do it this way to keep the most people happy. Or at least somewhat less whiny.
The ENY scale should be expanded to 60 or even 100. Make the least capable rides more attractive by offering larger perk bonuses.
Basing kill/score points off what the participants were flying could also encourage more people to get out of their crutch rides for a bit.
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Eny is no big deal. If I'm locked out of a pony I'll find out where the base takes are happening and up a bomber and help out. Variety is fun. It's nice to spend a few hours rolling up this Bish rather than being rolled. :cheers:
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I would imagine the current ENY system has a large number of expensive coding hours invested in its creation. With HTC work load to update AH with new graphics, , changing the ENY system is probably very low priority. I will take updated graphics engine over a new ENY system without question.
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One of the older players once said something to the effect that the ENY idea was one of the best ideas HTC ever had - and as a result they had to balance the whole thing out by making it one the worst implemented ideas they ever had. I sort of agree. :old:
When the subject comes up there is the "in flight" vs. "in tower" discussion. or the "If you are a great stick in a sucky plane you'll nail a sucky stick in a great plane" thought. Or some other variations. Not the point I think. I agree with the idea that from time to time sides get out of balance and if nothing was done the game would not be fun for players on the receiving sides. (even though, often you have one side with a high number of players, one with low and the third with numbers that are not too far off from the "offending" side and thus in effect getting the real benefit from the ENY system).
But why apply ENY to a whole side? Could it be applied to individual players on a given side during a unbalanced period of time? Base it on player rank.
Or how about applying ENY to forward bases only. OK - you really want to fly that LA7? Come in from 2+ sectors.
I do not know if these ideas could be coded in the HTC development environment - but that is a tech question that HTC could comment on. :pray
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going from what I seem to remember hearing about game design philosophy, it's better to give people things than take away, so instead of penalizing the high team more aggressively by taking away more options, just reward the low # side more..
maybe by making the perk bonus modifier more aggressive, or adding another modifier based on local population.. lower the cost of perk planes, etc. if you are earning 10x the perks you normally would, and perk planes are half price, you might not care how outnumbered you are.. on the other hand, if you're earning 1 perk for 10 kills and 262's cost 400 perks, you might reconsider your loyalty to a chesspiece icon, or decide to leave the safety of the horde and branch out.
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ENY came about back during AH1 when we didn't have the uncapturable bases. A number of rook squads decided to organize all of the rook squads on sunday nights into the Joint Squad Operations(JSO).
The first night it happened, 300 rooks suddenly took to the air with assignments and targets. They basically swamped knight and bishop lands inside of the first hour. This carried on for some time every sunday night. You couldn't defend against it. I suspect some logged off and others joined the rooks for the night. Chances are that by the 3rd sunday it happened, customers canceled their accounts. It was the first time I had ever seen Hitech change the game dramatically over night in response to something. We know how slow his is to do that, I will venture his bottom line was being impacted.
This was also when you could capture every field in a country and then uber rape the last remaining airfield while everyone from the raped country sat in the tower or fed themselves into the vulch nightmare.
Now we have ENY and uncapturable fields near the HQ. We had the 12 hour side switch rule back then and the uber ACM sticks. Who even with their uber rides of choice against uber rides, didn't seem to have the mojo to stop a real hoard of players turning a country into Ft. Apache.
As players you are only the addicts begging the dealer to give you more for your dime. All while he's attempting to keep you from ODing and killing his business. It's funny, many addicts who OD and are saved by medical intervention. Don't learn their lesson and OD again. Addicts make lousy drug dealers and business decisions.
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ENY came about back during AH1 when we didn't have the uncapturable bases. A number of rook squads decided to organize all of the rook squads on sunday nights into the Joint Squad Operations(JSO).
The first night it happened, 300 rooks suddenly took to the air with assignments and targets. They basically swamped knight and bishop lands inside of the first hour. This carried on for some time every sunday night. You couldn't defend against it. I suspect some logged off and others joined the rooks for the night. Chances are that by the 3rd sunday it happened, customers canceled their accounts. It was the first time I had ever seen Hitech change the game dramatically over night in response to something. We know how slow his is to do that, I will venture his bottom line was being impacted.
This was also when you could capture every field in a country and then uber rape the last remaining airfield while everyone from the raped country sat in the tower or fed themselves into the vulch nightmare.
Now we have ENY and uncapturable fields near the HQ. We had the 12 hour side switch rule back then and the uber ACM sticks. Who even with their uber rides of choice against uber rides, didn't seem to have the mojo to stop a real hoard of players turning a country into Ft. Apache.
As players you are only the addicts begging the dealer to give you more for your dime. All while he's attempting to keep you from ODing and killing his business. It's funny, many addicts who OD and are saved by medical intervention. Don't learn their lesson and OD again. Addicts make lousy drug dealers and business decisions.
"You're talking a lot but you're not saying anything."
(http://i343.photobucket.com/albums/o460/caldera_08/tumblr_lsiqnv1l351qesmvqo1_500.gif~original) (http://s343.photobucket.com/user/caldera_08/media/tumblr_lsiqnv1l351qesmvqo1_500.gif.html)
Aside from the history lesson, what exactly is the point you are trying to make? :headscratch:
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ENY came about back during AH1 when we didn't have the uncapturable bases. A number of rook squads decided to organize all of the rook squads on sunday nights into the Joint Squad Operations(JSO).
The first night it happened, 300 rooks suddenly took to the air with assignments and targets. They basically swamped knight and bishop lands inside of the first hour. This carried on for some time every sunday night. You couldn't defend against it. I suspect some logged off and others joined the rooks for the night. Chances are that by the 3rd sunday it happened, customers canceled their accounts. It was the first time I had ever seen Hitech change the game dramatically over night in response to something. We know how slow his is to do that, I will venture his bottom line was being impacted.
This was also when you could capture every field in a country and then uber rape the last remaining airfield while everyone from the raped country sat in the tower or fed themselves into the vulch nightmare.
Now we have ENY and uncapturable fields near the HQ. We had the 12 hour side switch rule back then and the uber ACM sticks. Who even with their uber rides of choice against uber rides, didn't seem to have the mojo to stop a real hoard of players turning a country into Ft. Apache.
As players you are only the addicts begging the dealer to give you more for your dime. All while he's attempting to keep you from ODing and killing his business. It's funny, many addicts who OD and are saved by medical intervention. Don't learn their lesson and OD again. Addicts make lousy drug dealers and business decisions.
JSO was a knee jerk reaction to literally years of bishknit rolling. I remember a time when I couldn't log on with more than 2-3 fields left and vulched to death.
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Demanding Hitech allow you the player to dictate how the game shall be run will kill the game.
As players you are only the addicts begging the dealer to give you more for your dime. All while he's attempting to keep you from ODing and killing his business. It's funny, many addicts who OD and are saved by medical intervention. Don't learn their lesson and OD again. Addicts make lousy drug dealers and business decisions.
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Demanding Hitech allow you the player to dictate how the game shall be run will kill the game.
As players you are only the addicts begging the dealer to give you more for your dime. All while he's attempting to keep you from ODing and killing his business. It's funny, many addicts who OD and are saved by medical intervention. Don't learn their lesson and OD again. Addicts make lousy drug dealers and business decisions.
dude...smack yourself in the back of the head..you are stuck.
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AH triggers a pituitary reward response like all combat computer games. Loud sounds, flashing colors, and highly stressful situations trigger a self medication reward response. Frustration is tolerated differently by each player. Frustration is not as rewarding pituitary wise as success. So individual players demand specific changes to the game to give them more of the positive pituitary reward response. Very often change for change's sake trying to get themselves back to that lost high before they built up a tolerance, becoming intolerant of their lack of a fix.
Players are addicted to their daily fix. Addicts don't make very good business decisions but, all of them know how to make their own fix better in the short run. Just ask any addict how their dealer can make their fix better. So ergo that will make it better for anyone else addicted since another addict will agree, more of what they want is better the way they want it.
Addicts don't make very good business decisions or they would be dealers.
Consumers are not invested in the health of the manufacturer or supplier. That's why the customer is not always right when it comes to non essential consumption and recreational substances.
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AH triggers a pituitary reward response like all combat computer games. Loud sounds, flashing colors, and highly stressful situations trigger a self medication reward response. Frustration is tolerated differently by each player. Frustration is not as rewarding pituitary wise as success. So individual players demand specific changes to the game to give them more of the positive pituitary reward response. Very often change for change's sake trying to get themselves back to that lost high before they built up a tolerance, becoming intolerant of their lack of a fix.
Players are addicted to their daily fix. Addicts don't make very good business decisions but, all of them know how to make their own fix better in the short run. Just ask any addict how their dealer can make their fix better. So ergo that will make it better for anyone else addicted since another addict will agree, more of what they want is better the way they want it.
Addicts don't make very good business decisions or they would be dealers.
Consumers are not invested in the health of the manufacturer or supplier. That's why the customer is not always right when it comes to non essential consumption and recreational substances.
In other words, messing with the ENY could have a backlash that doesn't effect us in the same way it would HiTech. For us it would be less players to have fun with, for him it's less customers . Since we aren't in his boat we can't really see the overall picture, and since he doesn't openly discuss on-going things, we don't know what is planned ahead.
Is this pretty much what you are saying, Bustr? :salute
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Players are addicted to their daily fix. Addicts don't make very good business decisions but, all of them know how to make their own fix better in the short run. Just ask any addict how their dealer can make their fix better. So ergo that will make it better for anyone else addicted since another addict will agree, more of what they want is better the way they want it.
You maybe right or not. But the addicts will keep coming back whether you add new planes, have a non-reliable DAR bar indication component or even add an Achievement system. They will keep coming back. Until they die.
As stated before, as much of a pain as it is, experienced players will, for the most part, up what works for them during periods of high ENY. The focus should, in part, be on leveling the environment for newbies. We need new blood to stay in the game. The more I think about it an ENY system based on player rank makes a lot of sense. :rock
Does anyone else have a real idea on how to address the problem of unbalanced sides?
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That would work if score were tied to skill. But that relationship is VERY tenuous at best.
Many of the super low scores are very timid, not very good.
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Problem is alot of players stay in there 5-7-10 eny planes, that's all they will Fly. I find the higher eny planes are alot more Fun and make you a better stick hands down. When the eny gets high and they can't fly there ride they get pissed off, here's a tip for you guys learn higher eny planes :aok
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I think pissing those guys off is empirically and inherently good. And HTC could record the whines over Vox, and post the funniest and most ignorant to the front page, so that we might laugh at their pitiful existence :noid.
Seriously though, if someone is unwilling to fly anything but their EZ mode plane or switch sides, do we really want them here? I'd say the average fights would improve with their loss.
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Seriously though, if someone is unwilling to fly anything but their EZ mode plane or switch sides, do we really want them here? I'd say the average fights would improve with their loss.
Being that the ones you are referring to constitute a large portion of the player base, how much longer would the game last?
Punishment won't work. Incentives to try other planes, stand a much better chance.
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Seriously though, if someone is unwilling to fly anything but their EZ mode plane or switch sides, do we really want them here? I'd say the average fights would improve with their loss.
Because an outdated game struggling to survive is going to eliminate players in order to make your experience better and thus save the game? Good luck. :rolleyes:
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Over bloated offense in real world might mean logistics problems. Limit fuel to 50% and no 1000# bombs. No perk planes. Same with tanks say half load-outs or limited to the smaller load-outs. No perk tanks.
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Seriously though, if someone is unwilling to fly anything but their EZ mode plane or switch sides, do we really want them here? I'd say the average fights would improve with their loss.
It seems to me the EZ mode plane guys, as you put it, are the one's willing to stay and fight. Have fun with the runners and ack huggers once they're gone.
The real question is do we want you here? You always talk big; sign up for the dueling bracket. Put up or shut up.
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I remember ENY working quite well to balance sides, back when there were two LW MAs and one hour side switches many people DID voluntarily balance sides to avoid being hit with ENY, either by moving or switching.
(So what was the problem with one hour switches anyway? Spying? Meh, a moot point. A *properly* driven CV is parked within sight of the enemies base to facilitate furballing, and a *properly* planned mission DOES encounter enemy aircraft, otherwise the whole affair is about as much fun as trimming your toenails.)
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I remember ENY working quite well to balance sides, back when there were two LW MAs and one hour side switches many people DID voluntarily balance sides to avoid being hit with ENY, either by moving or switching.
I remember (have partly logged) an entirely different thing: ENY was kicking in far more often and more massive because of the two arenas. One country would dominate LWO, another LWB. When too outnumbered (and thus getting rolled) players at large would try to join the other arena, not switch sides. Back then, just like today, most players were still very much country loyal. Only a minority doesn't care and switch for the fight.
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Hmmm...well Snail that bit about the two arenas may be true. But still seems to me that balance for one arena might be better served by giving players the option to avoid eny via allowing the frequent sideswitching of yore. SOME will switch, and it seems more customer-pleasing than someone logging out 'cause they can't get their favorite ride and are stuck on a side.
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Hmmm...well Snail that bit about the two arenas may be true. But still seems to me that balance for one arena might be better served by giving players the option to avoid eny via allowing the frequent sideswitching of yore. SOME will switch, and it seems more customer-pleasing than someone logging out 'cause they can't get their favorite ride and are stuck on a side.
most players arent airplane loyal but country loyal. I dont play as much as I did before due to work, but I cant remember the last time eny hit me more than a few minutes to not fly the pony.
semp
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most players arent airplane loyal but country loyal. I dont play as much as I did before due to work, but I cant remember the last time eny hit me more than a few minutes to not fly the pony.
semp
Loyal to an arbitrarily assigned "side" instead of certain melange of engine sounds, stick feel, history, performance and sexy lines? This is perverse beyond all comprehension.
Yes, in a few minutes eny may correct itself, but does it correct itself because 12 Pony dweebs like ourselves log in disgust?
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It seems to me the EZ mode plane guys, as you put it, are the one's willing to stay and fight. Have fun with the runners and ack huggers once they're gone.
The real question is do we want you here? You always talk big; sign up for the dueling bracket. Put up or shut up.
I've noticed quite the opposite. The EZ mode guys cut and run the second they notice they've lost the advantage.
On the other hand, the guys in the 109's, early Spits, and P-47's are much more willing to stick around. Weather because they know they can't use speed to run, feel they can gain an edge as the fight develops, or are just more ballsy than the Spixteen scut I don't know. But the fights are almost invariably better against the higher ENY planes.
Anyway, if someone is unwilling to leave their P-51D, and would rather log than fly something else, their value is limited only to their subscription cost. And that value is mitigated by constraining the tools HTC can use to adjust game play.
The only thing worse than having them as customers is losing them all at once. But I don't think the number that would quit is great enough that we shouldn't add significantly harsher ENY limits.
As to the country thing, I think HTC should rename them country 1, 2, and 3, and randomize the starting country of every player at the beginning of each tour. You can switch to join with your squadies, but since there is no familiar name to switch to by default, and it breaks up the groups of the little tardlets, it might help alleviate the country loyalty.
And if a mega squad is too big to coordinate with the randomization, well it's probably big enough to be detrimental to game play.
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Loyal to an arbitrarily assigned "side" instead of certain melange of engine sounds, stick feel, history, performance and sexy lines? This is perverse beyond all comprehension.
Yes, in a few minutes eny may correct itself, but does it correct itself because 12 Pony dweebs like ourselves log in disgust?
considering that I played as a rook for years. and i wasnt arbitrarily assigned to rooks either. I started as a bishop. switched to rooks to play with an old squad from aw. I have played for all 3 sides, not lately, but enough to say that the pasture isnt "greener" on the other side.
if you are stuck to only flying a pony, dont blame me because I dont switch and "force" you to log in disgust. the problem isnt the eny or the game or me, but your own attitude.
semp
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Anyway, if someone is unwilling to leave their P-51D, and would rather log than fly something else, their value is limited only to their subscription cost. And that value is mitigated by constraining the tools HTC can use to adjust game play.
When country switching was an hour, people bothered by ENY could and often did switch countries. I've seen 'em do it! Thus allowing ENY to act as an incentive, instead of simply annoying people. What does being stuck for up to 12 hours in something like a gaggle of P-40s against a lone red Spixteen give one incentive to do exactly, except log in disgust? Followed by the poor loner who just got hopelessly ganged also logging in disgust?
On the contrary, players willing and able to switch to the low numbers side for any reason whatsoever (ride preference, perk farming, finding the best place to club baby seals) are the best thing for unbalanced sides, since they make the sides less unbalanced Maybe there are never enough of them, but the option should be and easy.
(Oh, and ride-loyal side-switchers are also as valuable to the game as slightly judgmental Luft-enthusiasts ;) I took a wee peak at what LW Tour 166 looked like for Jager...Kurt, 152, and 262s kills galore! But runstang fetishists are baaaaadddd????? :devil Not to ignore your one-to-one K/D in the Emil, braggable, but game balance would have been better served by you being able to switch and fly your Kurt on the low numbers side instead, dontya think?)
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if you are stuck to only flying a pony, dont blame me because I dont switch and "force" you to log in disgust. the problem isnt the eny or the game or me, but your own attitude.
semp
Actually if you're on the high numbers side you're facing TWO problems: You may or may not be ENYed out of your favorite ride, AND you are likely to be competing with numerous friendlies for a limited food supply. Far better to be in a hot ride with abundant snacks all around you, than one of 5 guys on one con, right? But if you can't switch sides for a few hours, your ability to do anything about it is rather limited, right?
The purpose of ENY is to make things more fair in the face of unbalanced team numbers, correct?
Thus IF ENY motivates someone to switch to the lower side, that is the best possible outcome is it not? The sides are now less unbalanced than they were.
But say an hour later the population has shifted yet again and this player now finds himself on the high number side, but he can't switch for another 11 hours, that is a bit of a problem, no?
It seems to me that having ENY to combat side unbalance and then allowing only infrequent side-switching, these two things are working at cross purposes.
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As to the country thing, I think HTC should rename them country 1, 2, and 3, and randomize the starting country of every player at the beginning of each tour. You can switch to join with your squadies, but since there is no familiar name to switch to by default, and it breaks up the groups of the little tardlets, it might help alleviate the country loyalty.
And if a mega squad is too big to coordinate with the randomization, well it's probably big enough to be detrimental to game play.
bahhhh. squad/gang forever. country/chesspiece forever.
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I agree with BnZ. The long side switch timer does not encourage side switching. I also agree that it is far better to fly your favorite ride in a target rich environment than being forced into another plane and compete for food.
ENY is not a real problem for me since I do not remember the last time the mossie VI has been ENY limited. It is annoying though that I cannot roll a 262 to hunt a red 262. It is the lack of targets that makes me what to switch sides, but I do not want to get stuck in the wrong chess piece when my squadies log in.
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I agree with BnZ. The long side switch timer does not encourage side switching. I also agree that it is far better to fly your favorite ride in a target rich environment than being forced into another plane and compete for food.
ENY is not a real problem for me since I do not remember the last time the mossie VI has been ENY limited. It is annoying though that I cannot roll a 262 to hunt a red 262. It is the lack of targets that makes me what to switch sides, but I do not want to get stuck in the wrong chess piece when my squadies log in.
That can be interesting. I still remember the private messages after I ran into my ex squadmates 2 vs 6 and after shooting down 3 or 4 of them :)
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(So what was the problem with one hour switches anyway? Spying? Meh, a moot point. A *properly* driven CV is parked within sight of the enemies base to facilitate furballing, and a *properly* planned mission DOES encounter enemy aircraft, otherwise the whole affair is about as much fun as trimming your toenails.)
About the only time I ever got really pissed for days :furious while playing the game was when a player (who, based on rumors, is now involuntary no longer in the game for other reasons), saw a NASCAR mission posted - switched sides after we launched (remember when you would change what base you were going after at the last second to throw off side switchers?) and then low level bombed us on the way to town. I'm glad there is now a 12 hour wait time.
Sure, the 12 hour wait time may cause other issues, but lets look at ways of addressing them.
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It sounds to me like this buff dweeb, through bravely enduring the tedium of bomber flying, saved you from spending a few minutes of your precious life on a super-quick town grab MISHUN!!! whose tedium is only exceeded by that of watching cars turn left for several hours :D The proper way to thank him would have been to up fighters and brutally murder his buffs, thus mercifully shortening his own tedium. Call it Karma...
See, the key the a properly planed MISHUN!!! is to openly up a great gob of aircraft and hurl them at a similar gob of enema aircraft. Such MISHUNS!!! are difficult if not impossible to spy or grief.
Now you know, and knowing is half the battle.
About the only time I ever got really pissed for days :furious while playing the game was when a player (who, based on rumors, is now involuntary no longer in the game for other reasons), saw a NASCAR mission posted - switched sides after we launched (remember when you would change what base you were going after at the last second to throw off side switchers?) and then low level bombed us on the way to town. I'm glad there is now a 12 hour wait time.
Sure, the 12 hour wait time may cause other issues, but lets look at ways of addressing them.
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When country switching was an hour, people bothered by ENY could and often did switch countries. I've seen 'em do it! Thus allowing ENY to act as an incentive, instead of simply annoying people. What does being stuck for up to 12 hours in something like a gaggle of P-40s against a lone red Spixteen give one incentive to do exactly, except log in disgust? Followed by the poor loner who just got hopelessly ganged also logging in disgust?
Thats why you don't switch to the high-number side, so you're not stuck as being part of the gaggle. Ideally, you would switch to the side of the lone spixteen, up something slightly less dweeby, and join him in working a slaughter against the horde of inferior (and quite possibly inept) P-40's.
On the contrary, players willing and able to switch to the low numbers side for any reason whatsoever (ride preference, perk farming, finding the best place to club baby seals) are the best thing for unbalanced sides, since they make the sides less unbalanced Maybe there are never enough of them, but the option should be and easy.
I would agree. But I'm talking about the country-loyal idiots who refuse to fly for anything other than their assigned country, and think they win a Knights Cross to the Iron Cross with Oak Leaves, Swords, and Diamonds every time they capture a base.
Country or plane-loyalty is fine, country AND plane-loyalty is not.
[/quote](Oh, and ride-loyal side-switchers are also as valuable to the game as slightly judgmental Luft-enthusiasts ;) I took a wee peak at what LW Tour 166 looked like for Jager...Kurt, 152, and 262s kills galore! But runstang fetishists are baaaaadddd????? :devil Not to ignore your one-to-one K/D in the Emil, braggable, but game balance would have been better served by you being able to switch and fly your Kurt on the low numbers side instead, dontya think?)[/quote]
The difference is I fly a mix of aircraft, and fly high ENY aircraft voluntarily, and thus don't cry over ENY . If you care to notice, I also have a fair number of kills in the Ki-43 and A6M's.
In fact, the only planes I won't fly are the Spitfires (I won't contribute to the spit problem), P-51D's (won't contribute to the pony problem), and P-38's (can't fly it for hell, for some reason). Admittedly I tend towards Luftwaffe aircraft, but my secondary rides change as I grow bored with the current ones. For a while it was the P-40's, then the C.205, now the kites.
And game balance is served just fine by me fighting for the Knights, with 21 less players than the bish, and 2 more players than the rooks, rather than switching to the rooks, since the exact numbers fluctuate constantly. Our real goal should be to get 14 of those bish to change sides, preferably with 7 going to each side, so the numbers are even.
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And game balance is served just fine by me fighting for the Knights, with 21 less players than the bish, and 2 more players than the rooks, rather than switching to the rooks, since the exact numbers fluctuate constantly.
what time of day do you play?
ive been keeping records lately when I play. I never see numbers like that.. example from last nite:
(pacific time)
time/bish/knit/rook
647p 106 133 135
731p 114 129 121
751p 110 137 123
824p 97 142 127
925p 85 137 109
949p 71 124 105
1111p 56 78 68
1203a 42 74 55
only slightly different than recent weeks because usually rooks have the extra players those hours... I'm guessing some squads rotated to knights.
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It varies. Most common would probably be between 3-6 PM Mountain Time.
And its just an example. I picked 21 people because its large enough to make a considerable impact, and neatly splits into 3 even groups.
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Thats why you don't switch to the high-number side, so you're not stuck as being part of the gaggle. Ideally, you would switch to the side of the lone spixteen, up something slightly less dweeby, and join him in working a slaughter against the horde of inferior (and quite possibly inept) P-40's.
The problem is, what if you switched to the low number side two hours ago, but now it is the high numbers side, but you can't switch again today.
One hour switches allow the sort that gets something out of blowing up inanimate objects, rolling maps, and winning te3 war can switch to the high side and do that, those who simply want a hot plane with lots of things to kill can switch to a low numbers side. Everybody wins.
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I've never supported the 12 hour side switch rule.
But it doesn't preclude us from making the ENY change. It might even drive the side switch change, where as the side switch change would not drive ENY change.
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But it doesn't preclude us from making the ENY change.
You work for HT now?
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Country or plane-loyalty is fine, country AND plane-loyalty is not.
You need to get off your high horse. It's players like you that aren't needed in this game. The only suggestions you have for the game is to penalize players for not playing your way, none of your suggestions will help improve the game in any fashion other than help the unskilled dweeb that is known as Tank-Ace, to the detriment of everyone else and the game. You try and come off as some 'Experten' player in your posts when you're nothing more than a sub-average player that is pissed because players don't play the game how you wish they would play.
Instead of telling others to leave, do us all a favor and follow your own advice.
ack-ack
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BUTTFACES!
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ENY kicked up to 20+ in the wee hours Saturday night/Sunday morning for Knights so instead of taking NIK's to back up the bombers we took 410's. Never flew them before and found it very successful port de-acker until an engine gets hit. ENY got worse and ended the evening in a 47D11 (which I fly regularly anyhow) when we won the war.
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I remember (have partly logged) an entirely different thing: ENY was kicking in far more often and more massive because of the two arenas. One country would dominate LWO, another LWB. When too outnumbered (and thus getting rolled) players at large would try to join the other arena, not switch sides. Back then, just like today, most players were still very much country loyal. Only a minority doesn't care and switch for the fight.
Please don't tell the minority of players who feel that way that they are in the minority. They will tell you straight out that they are soooooooo in the majority that they exceed China.
Of course, they are completely full of Shinola, but they WILL tell you that as they simultaneously beat the dead horse.
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we won the war.
The players who got to fly in a target rich environment instead of being stuck on the side that was grabbing vast tracts of cartoon land, these were the real winners.
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The players who got to fly in a target rich environment instead of being stuck on the side that was grabbing vast tracts of cartoon land, these were the real winners.
And we fed those few quite well with our high ENY planes and still enjoyed every min of it. It's fun to try new planes, hell, we ran a Stuka mission for the hell of it and got picked apart by spit dweebs and a 190 but several planes still got through to hit assigned targets. :aok
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I`m sure ballads will be written commemorating the glorious combat against various buildings. Meanwhile, I feel a bit sorry for anyone interested in killing aircraft and vehicles actually controlled by another player but who found himself stuck for hours on the high-numbered side...
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Those two arenas almost made me quit AH.
I remember (have partly logged) an entirely different thing: ENY was kicking in far more often and more massive because of the two arenas. One country would dominate LWO, another LWB. When too outnumbered (and thus getting rolled) players at large would try to join the other arena, not switch sides. Back then, just like today, most players were still very much country loyal. Only a minority doesn't care and switch for the fight.
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At one time last night there was a host of 262s. I saw 4 at one time. There were reports of 6 together on the red side over our tiny island field.
Rooks had to contend with heavy eny restrictions most of the evening. Not a big deal most of the time but the reds skies were filled with the 262s, 190s, 109s and spit 16s from the deck to 20,000. The Rooks of course have had this same advantage in their favor before this, so no complaint other than it wasn't much fun being on the receiving end of the imbalance.
Again the ENY system should have a filter that considers number of specific models in use on all sides.
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At one time last night there was a host of 262s. I saw 4 at one time. There were reports of 6 together on the red side over our tiny island field.
Rooks had to contend with heavy eny restrictions most of the evening. Not a big deal most of the time but the reds skies were filled with the 262s, 190s, 109s and spit 16s from the deck to 20,000. The Rooks of course have had this same advantage in their favor before this, so no complaint other than it wasn't much fun being on the receiving end of the imbalance.
If that was 66 then that was LilMak's fault...
Again the ENY system should have a filter that considers number of specific models in use on all sides.
Do you mean if you have higher numbers, but choose lesser planes, you shouldn't have eny?
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Yep. Rooks had numbers last night and ENY hit us hard. I never noticed. I'm flying the 110G2 this month for the challenge.
Do you see what I'm getting at? ;)
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Yep. Rooks had numbers last night and ENY hit us hard. I never noticed. I'm flying the 110G2 this month for the challenge.
Do you see what I'm getting at? ;)
Yes but those playing the war game don't want to challenge themselves they just want to hold off the enemy or roll over the enemy.
The above condition hurts the defenders even more. First there are few who play the defend game and on top of that they have to use inferior equipment.
A perfect example for a local ENY system.
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If that was 66 then that was LilMak's fault...
Guess so. When ya had such a hard time in 47-Ms with altitude against my D-25 the logical conclusion is to get 6 262s and make it even harder on yourselves.
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Scca, as an example, 262s would have a percentage of users cap applied no matter what the side imbalance to reflect WW2 statistical numbers. Same with 109Ks, spit16, P47Ms, P51ds P38Ls as few more examples.
Fulcrum, a P38J works for me on restricted ENY nights. Quite a perk farmer.
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Guess so. When ya had such a hard time in 47-Ms with altitude against my D-25 the logical conclusion is to get 6 262s and make it even harder on yourselves.
Actually, that didn't have anything to do with it. You flew expertly and should be please with your performance while being outnumbered (after we took out all your friends), and out planed. :salute
The real reason(s) were:
1: Your accusation of being HO'ed on 200, when you indeed were not (confirmed by film)
C: Your refusal to accept my cash offer to dispute your claim
III:The rooks where like cockroaches in that area, normally having a 3 to 1 numbers advantage
*:I had no idea the Rooks had ENY issues
f:262's were on sale (<170 perks)
FYI: If it's your belief that when you loop over to go head to head with a plane diving at you, after the first (or 20th) merge that a shot ahead of the 3-9 line is considered a "HO", then you will forever be "HO'ed". Friend, that's not a HO...
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Yes but those playing the war game don't want to challenge themselves they just want to hold off the enemy or roll over the enemy.
The above condition hurts the defenders even more. First there are few who play the defend game and on top of that they have to use inferior equipment.
A perfect example for a local ENY system.
All fair points I didn't consider when I made my first post, Fugi. :salute
I'm just looking for targets....all of the other war stuff rarely concerns me (unless it means more targets of course). :D
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. . . The above condition hurts the defenders even more. First there are few who play the defend game and on top of that they have to use inferior equipment.
A perfect example for a local ENY system.
It may be just my perspective but the imbalance-ENY problems happens more often on the weekend. At least for the Rooks.
Last night we had ENY restrictions but we were being overpowered. It was a strange night.
What made it worse was trying to watch my Auburn tigers at the same time as dodging all the pickers and a circle of 262s. I felt like a cat in the middle of a pack of dogs. First one would tear at you, then another then another.
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Actually, that didn't have anything to do with it. You flew expertly and should be please with your performance while being outnumbered (after we took out all your friends), and out planed. :salute
The real reason(s) were:
1: Your accusation of being HO'ed on 200, when you indeed were not (confirmed by film)
C: Your refusal to accept my cash offer to dispute your claim
III:The rooks where like cockroaches in that area, normally having a 3 to 1 numbers advantage
*:I had no idea the Rooks had ENY issues
f:262's were on sale (<170 perks)
FYI: If it's your belief that when you loop over to go head to head with a plane diving at you, after the first (or 20th) merge that a shot ahead of the 3-9 line is considered a "HO", then you will forever be "HO'ed". Friend, that's not a HO...
There was at least two points in that engagement where I could've pulled straight into whoever it was and let em rip. I chose not to do so. So I guess you could say that I wasn't HOed but that's only because I made that choice even at my own peril in a 2-3 on 1 engagement with little E and/or altitude. That certainly didn't stop your crew from putting themselves in a front quarter situation on a defensive pilot where most other MA sticks would've just rolled the dice and put rounds in face. And if you think I'm just going to take your word that there were no HOs in a video you recorded and hand over 50 bucks you're crazy. Instead we'll just agree that your definition of a HO and mine are different. As they say, "It takes two to HO," and IMO the guy who had all the reason to do so chose not to do so even though he was given ample opportunity.
I like you AKs. Always a good fight with some skilled sticks. That fight we had was probably the best I had all night and I <S> all of ya. Forgive me for being upset and calling you out on 200. No hard feelings.
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There was at least two points in that engagement where I could've pulled straight into whoever it was and let em rip. I chose not to do so. So I guess you could say that I wasn't HOed but that's only because I made that choice even at my own peril in a 2-3 on 1 engagement with little E and/or altitude. That certainly didn't stop your crew from putting themselves in a front quarter situation on a defensive pilot where most other MA sticks would've just rolled the dice and put rounds in face. And if you think I'm just going to take your word that there were no HOs in a video you recorded and hand over 50 bucks you're crazy. Instead we'll just agree that your definition of a HO and mine are different. As they say, "It takes two to HO," and IMO the guy who had all the reason to do so chose not to do so even though he was given ample opportunity.
I like you AKs. Always a good fight with some skilled sticks. That fight we had was probably the best I had all night and I <S> all of ya. Forgive me for being upset and calling you out on 200. No hard feelings.
Kewl :salute No hard feelings...
Related to the topic... ENY is frequently no fun. Fly something +10, and unless it's off hours, or your team is about to win the war, you won't ever notice.
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Kewl :salute No hard feelings...
Fly something +10, and unless it's off hours, or your team is about to win the war, you won't ever notice.
:aok That being said, I admit I like flying the Typhoon and 152 on occasion and get annoyed when ENY prevents me from doing so. :P
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Scca, as an example, 262s would have a percentage of users cap applied no matter what the side imbalance to reflect WW2 statistical numbers. Same with 109Ks, spit16, P47Ms, P51ds P38Ls as few more examples.
Fulcrum, a P38J works for me on restricted ENY nights. Quite a perk farmer.
except the MA does not try to replicate/reflect WW2...... :aok
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One thing that has always bugged me is the 190A-5=F-8, and the F-4 = G-2 = G-6 thing.
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One thing that has always bugged me is the 190A-5=F-8, and the F-4 = G-2 = G-6 thing.
I'm not sure what you mean, F4andG2 aside they are very different aircraft.
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Scca, as an example, 262s would have a percentage of users cap applied no matter what the side imbalance to reflect WW2 statistical numbers. Same with 109Ks, spit16, P47Ms, P51ds P38Ls as few more examples.
To what advantage? To make fans of a popular aircraft quit the game?
And do you really want to start something that players who want their favorite ride available will claim one thing, say the 4500 Spitfire LF.Mk IXs/Spitfire Mk XVIs should all be counted towards the Mk XVI numbers as they are the same aircraft against the people who want as few Mk XVIs in the air as possible who will claim that only the 1000 Mk XVIs should be counted. Who is right? Well, they both are to one degree or another and which you side with likely says more about what you want to see in the game than which is actually better for the game.
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I'm not sure what you mean, F4andG2 aside they are very different aircraft.
Talking about their ENY values.
The G-2 is superior to the F-4 overall. If the G-2 is an ENY 30 aircraft, then the F-4 should properly be ENY 35.
And the 190F-8 is most certainly not equal to the 190A-5 in terms of air-to-air capabilities, and use in the air to ground role is so low that it can be almost entirely disregarded for ENY.
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And do you really want to start something that players who want their favorite ride available will claim one thing, say the 4500 Spitfire LF.Mk IXs/Spitfire Mk XVIs should all be counted towards the Mk XVI numbers as they are the same aircraft against the people who want as few Mk XVIs in the air as possible who will claim that only the 1000 Mk XVIs should be counted. Who is right? Well, they both are to one degree or another and which you side with likely says more about what you want to see in the game than which is actually better for the game.
When we get enough players in the arena that 1000 spitfires will not be enough, Dale be arriving to work in one of those:
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/06/24/article-2347388-1A7BA9BD000005DC-628_634x457.jpg)
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When we get enough players in the arena that 1000 spitfires will not be enough, Dale be arriving to work in one of those:
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/06/24/article-2347388-1A7BA9BD000005DC-628_634x457.jpg)
He didn't say there would be a 1:1 ratio or Spit XVIs built to XVIs available at a given moment in AH. He said to reflect WWII statistical numbers.
I read that to mean that if there are 300 players in the MA you'd total the number built for AH aircraft and then each model would be allowed to have its percentage of the total in flight as a percentage of the 300 players. If 500,000 were built of all AH models combined and you want a Spit XVI with 1000 built, a total percentage of 0.2% of the 500,000 were Spit XVIs. That would mean that 0.2% of the 300 players would be allowed to use the Spit XVI at a given moment. That means 0.6 players, which we can be nice and round to the nearest whole number and allow a single Spit XVI to be used. 0.0252 players would be allowed to use the Ta152, rounded to the nearest whole number that yields 0. 8156 P-51Ds were built, that would allow 5 players out of the 300 to use the P-51D. These are examples based on a total AH production of 500,000 which is pulled out of my rear.
End result is that I hope a lot of players like the Il-2, M4A3(75) and T-34/76.
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6,655 fw190a8 where built ... I can fly it forever :cool:
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6,655 fw190a8 where built ... I can fly it forever :cool:
No, only a few players would be allowed to up one at the same time. As it is fairly popular there would certainly be times when you'd be blocked and have to take an A-5 or even something besides an Fw190.
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So, what your are saying with 300 online, you might end up flying a 110c/p40c, or c47,storch, or a Pzkw 4 with short barrel in a late war arena, even if you don't use GV's ?
IF you are lucky and get good bird you will stay on-line or else you log I guess..
Good luck with that ...