Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: BBP on January 07, 2014, 01:32:08 AM
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Why can I blow the crap out of everything in a F6F and when I fly the P-51 its like I'm shooting BB's? (SAME CONVERGENCE) ????? HELP! :ahand :bhead :bhead :bhead
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You can fire 5 different handguns of all identical caliber and none will shoot alike. Its all about the entire package.. or in this case, aircraft.
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What help do you need other than working on your aim? Lethality of the .50 calibers is the same for every plane equipped with machine guns.
ack-ack
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It's probably time on target. P51s are fast and you spend less time shooting the plane. F6Fs are slow and you can sit on their 6 while turning and just fill them with led all day.
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Why can I blow the crap out of everything in a F6F and when I fly the P-51 its like I'm shooting BB's? (SAME CONVERGENCE) ????? HELP! :ahand :bhead :bhead :bhead
All the prolly right answers aside (above), I was thinking exactly the same thing this morning! :eek:
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On my setup the 51 feels a bit bouncy in the nose and the hellcat feels rock solid
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On my setup the 51 feels a bit bouncy in the nose and the hellcat feels rock solid
I dont think its your setup. I've always felt the Hellcat was a more stable gun platform....but I'm terrible with .50s so dont take my word for it. ;)
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What Latrobe said. Closure rate and even wing gun spread can make just enough difference to throw your gun eye off not to mention changes in lag.
I will switch between the P38 and P47. I don't have near as much trouble with the switch if I do it often.
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My theory on it is something to do with the way the plane handles and the geometry between your LOS and where the guns are mounted on the pony. I have decent-ish gunnery in the P47, F6F, F4F, and F4U's, but I also often feel less effective in the pony for some reason.
Wiley.
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My theory on it is something to do with the way the plane handles and the geometry between your LOS and where the guns are mounted on the pony. I have decent-ish gunnery in the P47, F6F, F4F, and F4U's, but I also often feel less effective in the pony for some reason.
Wiley.
Same here... I find Pee-51's fun to fly, but I don't kill much in them...
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I've always put this down to speed and momentum.
If there is no closure or the enemy is ducking and weaving it does on average seem to take more to put them down.
A perfect cherry at 500mph and they die in an instant.
50cal has to be one of if not thee best armament in game. Fly a P51B for awhile get used to having 4 guns and then when you go back to 6 or 8 it is just ridiculous. Convergence is usually 300 for me with it.
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It may also be the fact that F6F has much more ammo than the PonyD.
This doesn't change the impact of the 50 cals, just the psychology of it: Since you have more ammo in the Hellcat you are inclined to hold the trigger longer; the PonyD less so you use more burst. And in both cases, you may not be aware of it.
I know those rare occassions I fly the Spit I barely touch the cannons because there are so few. The Butcher Birds with 500x20mm, not as cautious.
Just a guess.
boo
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It may also be the fact that F6F has much more ammo than the PonyD.
This doesn't change the impact of the 50 cals, just the psychology of it: Since you have more ammo in the Hellcat you are inclined to hold the trigger longer; the PonyD less so you use more burst. And in both cases, you may not be aware of it.
I know those rare occassions I fly the Spit I barely touch the cannons because there are so few. The Butcher Birds with 500x20mm, not as cautious.
Just a guess.
boo
That's an interesting thought, but if that's a factor for me, it's DEEPLY unconscious. There are only 2 planes I can think of where I am even remotely thinking about my ammo counter. The 109s with 30mm and the Spit 5.
Anything else, and .50 equipped planes in particular, I'm generally thinking 'hold trigger for 1 second' when I get a good shot. I don't actually hold it for a second, but I generally fire in relatively long bursts. I'm not interested in efficiency, I'm interested in killing the guy that's in my sights. ;)
One of these days I'm going to spend a couple weeks in the pony just to try to figure out what is messing me up in it.
Wiley.
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This is a bit of a guess on my part, but the reason the stallfighter .50's feel like they have more pop than the b&z .50 could be related to convergence, and its effects.
As I recall the .50 calls are more noticeably affected by convergence since they do not explode like a cannon. So when you have them all hitting at the same spot/time that collective energy gives them a big boost...you're getting a lot of focused damage done on one spot. With a stallfighter you tend to sit in that convergence sweet spot much longer during a fight, therefore it appears that when you shoot, you do more damage. With a b&z ride, alternatively, you can be through the sweet spot before you pull the trigger, or alternatively not even get to it, thus giving the impression that the guns are not hitting as hard.
My two bits anywhooo.
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This is a bit of a guess on my part, but the reason the stallfighter .50's feel like they have more pop than the b&z .50 could be related to convergence, and its effects.
As I recall the .50 calls are more noticeably affected by convergence since they do not explode like a cannon. So when you have them all hitting at the same spot/time that collective energy gives them a big boost...you're getting a lot of focused damage done on one spot. With a stallfighter you tend to sit in that convergence sweet spot much longer during a fight, therefore it appears that when you shoot, you do more damage. With a b&z ride, alternatively, you can be through the sweet spot before you pull the trigger, or alternatively not even get to it, thus giving the impression that the guns are not hitting as hard.
My two bits anywhooo.
Good point.
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Nothing wrong with the 50's!
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None of you going to test this offline at all?
Anecdotally you can dismantle test a B25 in the drone circuit while counting rounds or over time. Or use a stop watch and sit behind it. See how long it takes to cut off a wing shooting at the same spot with all test planes. Or some part of the B25 but, the same part for each fighter. That will eliminate differences in the .50cal programing for each fighter and leave you with differences in relative harmonization aspects since your testing speed will be sitting at about 250 behind the B25.
P51D---275, 300, 325
F6f-----275, 300, 325
F4f-----275, 300, 325
F4u-1A, D, 4----275,300,325
P47D 6 gun package----275,300,325
It may make for a better test of the .50cal programing to set all convergence to 300 since the coad was an inferred possibility as the source of the presented problem.
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bah, .50 cals in the pony are for wussies. Real men use rockets :rock :rock :rock :rock.
semp
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There are differences between 50-cal planes in where the guns are mounted and how much "rise" they have as they come to convergence. As has been mentioned the closure rate is likely a factor, as your aim point changes in a Pony as you get inside convergence. I use a convergence around 325 with 50-cals and tested "flatness" of the bullet stream in 3 different planes armed with 6 50-cals (I did not include the Hellcat in this particular test, but it could be done easily) by firing at a target at HALF of my convergence range.
Note the screenshot I took below: At half convergence (162.5 yards) the bullet stream for the Pony is several feet below the aim point (which was the horizontal line). You can see this is even more dramatic for the Corsair which has a larger separation (about 7 feet) between eye level and gun level and therefore more rise to the bullet stream. On the other hand, the Jug has a relatively flat bullet stream, meaning that as you close, your aim point changes less.
Combined with a greater closure rate in the Pony, this is probably having some impact on your shooting.
Bottom line: Remember as you get INSIDE convergence, you need to aim slightly higher to get the FULL concentration of your TWO bullet streams to hit. Otherwise, only a few of the bullets (in the top portion of the stream) are hitting your target, while the bulk of your rounds are actually passing UNDER the target and rising on the other side, giving the illusion of "rubber bullets".
This was also discussed in a Gunnery Tips thread in the Training Forum:
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,354354.15.html
Hope this helps.
<S>
(http://i1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh599/Rhino551988/FirePatrn_162_PonyD_Hog1A_JugM_zps3fe3afa9.jpg)
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It's probably time on target. P51s are fast and you spend less time shooting the plane. F6Fs are slow and you can sit on their 6 while turning and just fill them with led all day.
This.
You get different kind of shots in the F6F and the P-51. In the latter you get more snap shots or tracking shots with a very short time tracking the target. In the much better turning and more stable F6F you can saddle up and track the target and keep the gun solution for several seconds. The F6F also has a much better over the nose view, so you likely also hit better % while tracking.
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So no one is bothering to see if there might be a coad issue by performing drone dismantling tests? I've never seen Hitech get mad if you find something that helps him eliminate an oversight to improve everyone's game experience.
You can sit each fighter on the spawn with the engine shut down and perform the dispersion testing.
.target 162.5 45 x.n
1. - x.n = between 9 and 15 azimuth for different fighters. You can use values of 1-9 for n to micro adjust to the center of your gunsight.
2. 45 because I use NDisles field A1 spawning NE.
Dispersion testing will not tell you if there is a difference in the .50 cal's ability to damage the same drone across different fighter types. Setting convergence the same in all fighters then testing the dismantling ability at or near convergence will. Other wise the OP would not have asked about the destructive difference he perceives between fighters using the same gun.
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kingpin i read that post--it mention's turning on gunsight indicator serveral times--how do i turn this on--and can it be turned on and used in the ma???????????
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kingpin i read that post--it mention's turning on gunsight indicator serveral times--how do i turn this on--and can it be turned on and used in the ma???????????
The Lead Computing Gunsight is toggled on and off using CTRL+TAB. You will get a text buffer message something to the effect of "Lock Enabled".
You then use the TAB key to select ONE aircraft within range, and a box outlining the icon of the selected plane will appear.
Green cross-hairs will now indicate where you need to aim to hit that aircraft.
The two cross-hairs correspond to your primary and secondary banks of guns. You will often notice some separation between the two "X's". This is due either to different convergence settings for your guns or differences in the ballistics of mixed weapon types (MG's and cannon). For example, if you take up a 109K4 you will usually see a large difference between where to aim the 30mm vs. the MGs, depending on your convergence settings.
The Lead Computing Gunsight is NOT available in the MA. However, you can use it online in the Training Arena as well as offline.
It is a good tool for learning to anticipate your lead for crossing shots or high speed snap shots by making those types of passes against the drones offline and getting a feel for the lead required at different ranges and angles.
Hope this helps.
<S>
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I've thought the same thing. Some of the answers are great especially the time on target. I'd tell you my convergence settings but my C.O. keeps everything under wraps.
Speaking on time on target when I go in for a kill I usually drift in for that reason.
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I heard some where along the way that within the us navy planes there is a difference in rate of fire between certain .50s. I think it was for the higher ROF: hellcat f4u a1-D and -4 vs f4f and f4u for the lower ROF.
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Can anyone confirm that?
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If I remember correctly, the rate of fire for the .50 in game is 800 rpm. It is not linked to what type of aircraft.
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I've thought the same thing. Some of the answers are great especially the time on target. I'd tell you my convergence settings but my C.O. keeps everything under wraps.
Speaking on time on target when I go in for a kill I usually drift in for that reason.
Top secret convergence settings! :rofl
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Top secret convergence settings! :rofl
I looked at their private forums, the convergence is set between 150 and 650 yards. :devil
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An interesting video in modern HD of a P51 doing a convergence setting with real 50's. I think they are only shooting 4 guns as well, the inboard look empty on the film, and it still shows how insanely powerful and effective 4 x 50's were.
http://www.eaavideo.org/video.aspx?v=1826158611001
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The M2 MG had different barrels that could be used. Most aircraft 50's used a shorter/lighter barrel that had a higher rate of fire. With the heavy barrel you had slower rate of fire but longer range and hitting power.
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Coolaid Drinkers. :banana: It's different, because HiTech makes it so. So we have to live with it, or everyone would fly ponies all day.
“The day I saw Mustangs over Berlin, I knew the jig was up.”
- Hermann Goering, German Luftwaffe commander, WWII
Anchor sends
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Its why I dont fly 51s, its my assist plane. When I feel like giving a helping hand, but dont want the credit.
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The M2 MG had different barrels that could be used. Most aircraft 50's used a shorter/lighter barrel that had a higher rate of fire. With the heavy barrel you had slower rate of fire but longer range and hitting power.
The AN/M2 was used in aircraft and they had an optimum cyclic rate of 750-800 rpm.