Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: HornetUK on February 02, 2014, 06:23:37 AM
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Would be great to have a Allied fight jet saw service right at the end of WW 2. Be a change to fling the ME. 262
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gloster_Meteor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gloster_Meteor)
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fe/Royal_Air_Force_Fighter_Command%2C_1939-1945._CL2946.jpg)
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Eventually.... yes. Having the Mk III would be nice. Though it is slower than the Me262, supposedly it should be more forgiving and easier to maneuver. Who knows.
I do believe there are a number of other planes on the "to do" list over the Meteor though. ;)
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That plane never saw action during WWII : but If this is accepted and we start introducing whatever we want, then introduce the FW190-D14 too. Ty... :rock
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Well wikipedia says that is wrong
"The Meteor was initially used to counter the V-1 flying bomb threat. 616 Squadron Meteors saw action for the first time on 27 July 1944, when three aircraft were active over Kent. These were the first operational jet combat missions for the Meteor and for the Royal Air Force. After some problems, especially with jamming guns, the first two V1 "kills" were made on 4 August. By war's end, Meteors accounted for 14 flying bombs."
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Well wikipedia says that is wrong
"The Meteor was initially used to counter the V-1 flying bomb threat. 616 Squadron Meteors saw action for the first time on 27 July 1944, when three aircraft were active over Kent. These were the first operational jet combat missions for the Meteor and for the Royal Air Force. After some problems, especially with jamming guns, the first two V1 "kills" were made on 4 August. By war's end, Meteors accounted for 14 flying bombs."
I would hardly call shooting down unmanned rockets as "combat" therefor the aircraft should not be added
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The last thing we need ( in my opinion) in our WWII combat sim is another jet.
:airplane:
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yes a million times, already a long page thread on this one. It made HTC's voting list last time around so they must deem it as worthy, lets not waste time arguing that point. We need cockpit pictures and aircraft performance and testing figures.
I can't think of anything better than an RAF jet to go and hunt some hordes and 262s with. Plus Kazaa said he would return upon inclusion!
Meteor, Interception of Luftwannabe Forces!
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Simple fact it say combat during ww2 it interspted a wepon which was designed to kill people. and stopped them.
Let's not underscore that it saved lives! Unmanned rocket yes but it was launched by a man with a finger on a trigger.
I will see what data I can find
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It got shot at. If that doesn't count as combat I don't know what does.
I don't think it should be added anytime soon, but it is clearly eligible. HTC even put it on a poll.
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I just read that the first operational squadron of meteors actually moved to the continent before hostilities end in the ETO. Book is Wolfpack Warriors by Roger Freeman.
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Heh. When I look back on one of my first comments I made about it, yeah. :rolleyes: I wonder what I was smoking then... :headscratch:
Combat is combat. Shooting down V1's is combat. V1's were launched by an enemy with intent in destruction, unless folks would imply that the V1's were purely for show? I'd think the death and destruction that some caused show otherwise, and I believe some pilots died shooting them down. So far I've seen some folks put forth reports of the Meteor being involved in ground attack missions against Germany. That would count as combat as well.
This AC has it's spot in AH or it wouldn't have shown in a poll. Maybe adding it would help with drawing some more folks in. We have the 262, but it's damn pricey. While the Meteor would probably be up there, I don't think it would be as expensive. I don't know. Without looking through and going off of (currently drunken) memory, it is not as fast as the 262, meaning it will be more vulnerable to your standard LW fighters. A minimum of 125 perks, yes. Though I don't think putting it up to 200 would be ideal. Maybe 150-175?
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Another plane that runs away from combat at will, please no. We just got another plane that can do this.
However:
J2M, wishlist asked for a decade +, was produced in mass and actually has A2Aircraft kills/deaths.
Oh, also not a jet that can run away from combat at will.
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Another plane that runs away from combat at will, please no. We just got another plane that can do this.
However:
J2M, wishlist asked for a decade +, was produced in mass and actually has A2Aircraft kills/deaths.
Oh, also not a jet that can run away from combat at will.
Personally I rather see many other AC added before the Meteor. But from a business aspect, it may prove a good thing? I don't know. I am not a businessman. HiTech has ultimate say in the end when something is added regardless.
One thing is for sure, I'm damn happy that the He-111 was finally added. While it's use in the MA is nil, the BoB scenario that was ran shorty after it's release, as well as the FSO that ran at the same time, proved to be epic. While I was RAF during FSO and never saw a 111, I was in a 111 during the scenario. The sight alone made it all so worth it. :rock
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Maybe so Volron, sounds like it has its following too. But, the running away begrudging comments are either becoming more noticeable (to me as I gain experience) or they are getting louder. I have said to myself as well when I see P-51's, is it worth it to engage them (I almost always fly something much slower.)
I suppose its been the same way forever, as I do recall Soda's writeups mentioning Runstangs and Run90s, maybe??
:salute
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yes a million times, already a long page thread on this one. It made HTC's voting list last time around so they must deem it as worthy, lets not waste time arguing that point. We need cockpit pictures and aircraft performance and testing figures.
I can't think of anything better than an RAF jet to go and hunt some hordes and 262s with. Plus Kazaa said he would return upon inclusion!
Meteor, Interception of Luftwannabe Forces!
I am a dweeb too, im flying for score too, i need even more uber rides too.
262s are for horde hunting - chasing them down is for protecting the hordes. There you go, Mr Hypocricy.
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Maybe so Volron, sounds like it has its following too. But, the running away begrudging comments are either becoming more noticeable (to me as I gain experience) or they are getting louder. I have said to myself as well when I see P-51's, is it worth it to engage them (I almost always fly something much slower.)
I suppose its been the same way forever, as I do recall Soda's writeups mentioning Runstangs and Run90s, maybe??
:salute
Fly a P-51 or a D9 yourself. Then they can't run away can they?
Or you can get good at overshoots and the quick snapshot in whatever turny bird you're flying while you complain about the P-51s and 190s running away from you. :D
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Fly a P-51 or a D9 yourself. Then they can't run away can they?
Or you can get good at overshoots and the quick snapshot in whatever turny bird you're flying while you complain about the P-51s and 190s running away from you. :D
Complaining about ppl avoiding combat in a combat air sim, the audacity, shame on me.
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Maybe so Volron, sounds like it has its following too. But, the running away begrudging comments are either becoming more noticeable (to me as I gain experience) or they are getting louder. I have said to myself as well when I see P-51's, is it worth it to engage them (I almost always fly something much slower.)
I suppose its been the same way forever, as I do recall Soda's writeups mentioning Runstangs and Run90s, maybe??
:salute
Well maybe we should all fly slow turn fighters.
Or guys that fly energy fighters should try to turn with slow turners and die all the time.
I find more times then not im just getting speed to start a high yoyo or such, when some lame brain is complaining that im running,when in fact im just building "E" and "living" ,which seems to make AH cry baby's sad.
I see more complaining two,i also see way more little boys that never grew up and learned how to loose with a little class, and learn some lessons.
:salute
(Edit) There are guys that just keep running to there ack and never turn, or don't turn till after your well out of icon range. But i find way to many players are ready to complain about pony's BnZ and using there speed to win rather then run.
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Fly a P-51 or a D9 yourself. Then they can't run away can they?
Exactly.
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-1 not needed before other aircraft that are needed and have more merit.
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-1 not needed before other aircraft that are needed and have more merit.
Exactly! Like a P-47D23 :aok
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Boring ore version of same old planes metior s a new one
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Boring ore version of same old planes metior s a new one
"Smart" phone? :rofl
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Well maybe we should all fly slow turn fighters.
Or guys that fly energy fighters should try to turn with slow turners and die all the time.
I find more times then not im just getting speed to start a high yoyo or such, when some lame brain is complaining that im running,when in fact im just building "E" and "living" ,which seems to make AH cry baby's sad.
I see more complaining two,i also see way more little boys that never grew up and learned how to loose with a little class, and learn some lessons.
:salute
(Edit) There are guys that just keep running to there ack and never turn, or don't turn till after your well out of icon range. But i find way to many players are ready to complain about pony's BnZ and using there speed to win rather then run.
What I was referring to are the score impressed or worse, their ego is attached to this game, so much so that they will only fight from advantage and run as far as they must if they lose advantage. I've seen numerous players that are willing to increase their skill by engaging in combat in non-turny birds.
I suppose players like Dazy and Debrody gained their skill in non-turny birds by engaging in combat, don't you? When I see a Rook P-51 turning with my turny-bird, I see it as prudent to assume it's Dazycutr.
I'm NOT talking about players that don't like being easy kills and thus egress to regain some E. I try to avoid being an easy kill too, but I'm not running away for sectors either, I/we can get new planes with just a click.
Plenty, hundreds, perhaps, of players here have the skill to stay and fight regardless of the plane; my proof: they've shot me down at a disadvantaged position and never ran away. I believe you have a few times too.
Way off topic now, I apologize for that, was just my .02 that another jet will just pick and run, I'm finished.
:salute
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Complaining about ppl avoiding combat in a combat air sim, the audacity, shame on me.
Again, fly the fastest plane you are allowed to fly and they won't be able to run will they? Problem solved :-)
Unless your "problem" is that when you get on the six of much worse turning planes they accelerate away instead of being easy kills :devil
Honestly, I think you'd have less fun if all the energy fighters were well flown all the time, then you just basically get to be a target drone. I fly the Fm2 a lot, so I know where I speak on that.
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Please stay n topic peole this is about the metior not other planes or tatics
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I'd like to see the meteor added only so we could have a "what if"! Meteors escorting B29's with 262's 152's and 163's defending! Maybe throw an A8 or 2 in just cuz I know Stampf would take it up!!!! :devil
:salute
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While the Meteo meets the inclusion requirements as far as I'm concerned, in my opinion it is the absoulute last plane that should be added. The Meteor had so little an impact on the war that every single other aircraft that participated in WW2 is worthy of inclusion befire it.
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While the Meteo meets the inclusion requirements as far as I'm concerned, in my opinion it is the absoulute last plane that should be added. The Meteor had so little an impact on the war that every single other aircraft that participated in WW2 is worthy of inclusion befire it.
May I ask what the inclussion requirements are? The only thing I've ever seen was no 1 off's or prototypes.
:salute
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I would hardly call shooting down unmanned rockets as "combat" therefor the aircraft should not be added
Tell that to the pilots that were risking their lives shooting these things down from inside the blast radius :old:
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There is no question the Meteor meets the requirements of inclusion into the game. I couldnt give a dang about jets but I'd never say it wasnt a legitimate candidate.
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Tell that to the pilots that were risking their lives shooting these things down from inside the blast radius :old:
and of course all the people places like London! or are we saying saving civilian lives not a worthy considerate?
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May I ask what the inclussion requirements are? The only thing I've ever seen was no 1 off's or prototypes.
:salute
Serial production (I.E. no prototypes) and used in combat.
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Serial production (I.E. no prototypes) and used in combat.
Funny I've been around for a couple of weeks and I've never seen HTC say anything except no 1 offs or prototypes.
Everything else is just heresay,please find a single post from anyone in HTC that states rules for inclussion.
:salute
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Funny I've been around for a couple of weeks and I've never seen HTC say anything except no 1 offs or prototypes.
Everything else is just heresay,please find a single post from anyone in HTC that states rules for inclussion.
:salute
They have said that they would like it to have seen combat.
The wording on that doesn't make it a hard rule though, just a preference.
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I'd love to see the Meteor added one day. I'd also love to see this added to the game. Tempest kill= combat.
(http://www.aviationgraphic.com/1606-2552-thickbox/he-162a-2-spatz-volksjaeger-schmitt-sr-10.jpg)
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Funny I've been around for a couple of weeks and I've never seen HTC say anything except no 1 offs or prototypes.
Everything else is just heresay,please find a single post from anyone in HTC that states rules for inclussion.
:salute
You don't listen so good, do you?
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Meteors were deployed on continent in january 1945.
They were only used for some air to ground attacks.
Pilots had orders to NOT fly over enemy territory, as allies didnt want one of them to get engaged in a dogfight, during which it could have
been shot down and Germans could have studied it.
Chasing V1s is different of a dogfight, as they couldnt fight back. It was -almost- like drones used today by air forces to be shot by pilots as a training.
Well wikipedia says that is wrong
"The Meteor was initially used to counter the V-1 flying bomb threat. 616 Squadron Meteors saw action for the first time on 27 July 1944, when three aircraft were active over Kent. These were the first operational jet combat missions for the Meteor and for the Royal Air Force. After some problems, especially with jamming guns, the first two V1 "kills" were made on 4 August. By war's end, Meteors accounted for 14 flying bombs."
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at the end of the day they were used in world war 2 and flew missions which they could have been killed in because they warhead could blow up in there faces. They stopped the enemy's we pones from reaching there targets.
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Meteors were deployed on continent in january 1945.
They were only used for some air to ground attacks.
Pilots had orders to NOT fly over enemy territory, as allies didnt want one of them to get engaged in a dogfight, during which it could have
been shot down and Germans could have studied it.
Chasing V1s is different of a dogfight, as they couldnt fight back. It was -almost- like drones used today by air forces to be shot by pilots as a training.
Exactly like target drones-but for the 850kg of Amatol which could detonate and kill the intercepting pilot!
What a thoroughly gormless statement :furious
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I'd love to see the Meteor added one day. I'd also love to see this added to the game. Tempest kill= combat.
(http://www.aviationgraphic.com/1606-2552-thickbox/he-162a-2-spatz-volksjaeger-schmitt-sr-10.jpg)
I think the He162 is in pretty much the same category as the Meteor, though the Tempest kill is more impressive than the Storch kill.
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I think the He162 is in pretty much the same category as the Meteor, though the Tempest kill is more impressive than the Storch kill.
I dunno those Storches can be pretty slippery. ;)
The 162 would have an extremely low fuel load too. I actually met a 162 pilot when I was stationed in Georgia of all places. He and his wifr had retired to Valdosta GA.
In the photo below he is the guy on the far left. Hauptmann Wolfgang (Gunther) Luwig.
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-2ULVTC9DOlw/Ulg79QJozgI/AAAAAAAAMZw/1wbHxMfcUQ4/s1600/jg1.jpg)
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I dunno those Storches can be pretty slippery. ;)
It was so slippery that it got on the ground and the crew got out before the Meteor could get back to it so it doesn't fully count as an air-to-air kill, just a destruction of an aircraft on the ground.
Still, functionally the Meteor forced it to land and then destroyed it.
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It was so slippery that it got on the ground and the crew got out before the Meteor could get back to it so it doesn't fully count as an air-to-air kill, just a destruction of an aircraft on the ground.
Still, functionally the Meteor forced it to land and then destroyed it.
In the 8th AF they call that a kill. :lol
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You don't listen so good, do you?
I listen just fine,I've also been around alot longer than you,if fact you were in diapers when I started flying sims,or likely not even born yet!
Show me 1 post that states rules for inclusion,go back to 2000 on the forum and you will not find 1,none other than the Pyro make those decisions.
But then I'd expect no less from you mister expert...... :rolleyes:
:salute
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I listen just fine,I've also been around alot longer than you,if fact you were in diapers when I started flying sims,or likely not even born yet!
Show me 1 post that states rules for inclusion,go back to 2000 on the forum and you will not find 1,none other than the Pyro make those decisions.
But then I'd expect no less from you mister expert...... :rolleyes:
:salute
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,326133.105.html
Towards the bottom of the page, Fullmetaljacket says this:
This is what HiTech sent to me.
Quote from: hitech on 04 January 2012, 07:17:28
There is no hard and fast rule. But generally we want planes to have seen service.
HiTech
That is exactly what he told me. They want planes to have seen service in WW2 to be added or considered for addition to Ace High.
The Do-335 does not even qualify for consideration. and i believe it will never be considered by HTC for addition. unless there is proof that it infact saw some kind of service other then in test flights.
By "rules", I think most people are referring to the De Facto rules of:
1) went into series production
2) issued in squadron strength or greater
3) saw combat
4) has confirmed kills
(as opposed to the non-existent De Jure rules). No, we're not going to change how we phrase it, because so far, they've been reasonably held as rules, since everything in the game follows them, as has everything on every poll ever held by HTC.
This sets precedent, and what I believe to be a very good precedent.
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Back peddle,side step or prance all around,you just proved my point!
Look at Hitech's first sentence,"There is no hard and fast rule"! They would like it to have seen service,that doesnt say seen combat,squadron strength or anything else.
As I said I've never seen any so called rules for inclussion,it's all been heresay.
And thats the de-facto truth....
with that I'm done with you,please dont address me anymore.
:salute
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Have it your way. Doesn't change the fact that, effectively, there are certain criteria that (based on all evidence) must be met for HTC to seriously consider something for inclusion.
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http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,326133.105.html
Towards the bottom of the page, Fullmetaljacket says this:
By "rules", I think most people are referring to the De Facto rules of:
1) went into series production
2) issued in squadron strength or greater
3) saw combat
4) has confirmed kills
(as opposed to the non-existent De Jure rules). No, we're not going to change how we phrase it, because so far, they've been reasonably held as rules, since everything in the game follows them, as has everything on every poll ever held by HTC.
This sets precedent, and what I believe to be a very good precedent.
There was nothing in the 'de facto rules' that an aircraft/ground vehicle needed to have had confirmed kills. It was always 1) Saw operational service during the war 2) production models only, no prototypes 3) Saw combat. That is until HiTech clarified it with is post on 1/4/2012 with his "There is no hard and fast rule. But generally we want planes to have seen service." comment. As you can see, what is HiTech's criteria is different than what we assumed it to be. As long as it saw service, that is really the only steadfast rule they have when it comes to adding new airplanes and ground vehicles.
ack-ack
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As far as I know, the de facto rules were extrapolated based on HTC's previous additions and polls, with all units added or considered for addition meeting the four criteria I listed.
Or is there a different origin to the "rules" that I'm not aware of?
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As far as I know, the de facto rules were extrapolated based on HTC's previous additions and polls, with all units added or considered for addition meeting the four criteria I listed.
Or is there a different origin to the "rules" that I'm not aware of?
P-51H did not. It also doesn't meet the "But generally we want planes to have seen service." guideline either.
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P-51H did not. It also doesn't meet the "But generally we want planes to have seen service." guideline either.
Ah. Did not know the P-51H was ever on a poll. Thank you Karnak.
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Ah. Did not know the P-51H was ever on a poll. Thank you Karnak.
On the very first poll back in 2001 along with stuff like the Spitfire Mk XIV and Ta152H-1. IIRC correctly the Ta152 won, but I may well not recall correctly.
There have been five polls to my knowledge. Second poll was simplest, just a choice between the D3A and SBD or the D4Y and SB2C.
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What were the 3rd and 4th polls? I remember voting in them, but for the life of me, I can't recall what specifically were the choices.
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I don't recall all of the options, but the B-25 beat the P-39 by less than 1% in the third poll and the B-29 blew the Me410 away by something like 61 to 39% in the fourth poll, the A-26 only narrowly missing the final round because the B-29 pulled so many votes off of it that the Me410 edged its way into the final.
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This would be a good add. I`ve flown it in another sim, and it would need to be perked higher than the 262. More maneverable, still faster than all props, and 4 nose mounted Hispanos.
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That would be odd. The 262 poses a greater threat to it than it does to 262's, and yet it would be perked higher.
Personally can't think of any other instance of this.
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That would be odd. The 262 poses a greater threat to it than it does to 262's, and yet it would be perked higher.
Personally can't think of any other instance of this.
Whether or not the Me262 would pose a greater threat between the two I cannot say, but the ballistics on the Hispanos likely mean the Meteor would post more of a threat to any fighter in the game other than the Me163 and Me262.
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Whether or not the Me262 would pose a greater threat between the two I cannot say, but the ballistics on the Hispanos likely mean the Meteor would post more of a threat to any fighter in the game other than the Me163 and Me262.
Yep - evidence= F4U-1C
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The Meteor would be a 262 murderer anytime it caught the German jet flying below maximum speed.
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I would also highly suggest not allowing the Meteor to carry ords. This would add an aspect to the game that I don't think we need.
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Fortunately the 610mph Meteor Mk IV was introduced in late 1945 (December if I recall correctly) and thus missed the war and is ineligible for AH.
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I'm not so sure of that BnZ's. The 262 is decently maneuverable; certainly capable of pulling 6g's around 350mph. At that point, the Meteor is either slower, or limited to the exact same turn radius as the 262, as dictated by physics.
And while I'm not sure of the Meteor's acceleration, I would guess it was slower than that of the 262 in that speed range, given that its much closer to the Meteor's top speed, which indicates the force of drag is approaching the the force of the thrust generated by the engines, resulting in reduced acceleration.
While the Meteor may be the biggest threat to the 262 save for another 262, I doubt it would be "murder".
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Fortunately the 610mph Meteor Mk IV was introduced in late 1945 (December if I recall correctly) and thus missed the war and is ineligible for AH.
Karnak, do you have the rate of climb for the MkIII? Also would you happen to know the clean stall speed?
I was always a fan of the vampire and have never read much about the meteor line!
:salute
PS: Ya I admit,I'm a DH fanboi! :devil
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Karnak, do you have the rate of climb for the MkIII? Also would you happen to know the clean stall speed?
I recall seeing it somewhere, but it isn't at WWII Aircraft Performance. I'll check my books when I get home. I recall it being moderately better than the Me262.
I did notice that the ceiling shown at WWII Aircraft Performance is aver 45,000ft, far higher than the Me262. It also lists the bomb load as two 1000lb bombs.