Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Mano on February 12, 2014, 05:46:22 PM
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Why do we need enemy GV icons? We have the Storch. The Storch can see them without icons.
Non perked planes bomb perked tanks without any risk to losing a plane or any perk points. In RL, camouflage such as
nets or tree branches covered tanks and other valuable ground vehicles. They also parked their gv's in burned out building as well.
You cannot hide a gv in the current terrains.
If you don't have anything to contribute, whether in favor or against, or can't stay on topic, please stay out of the thread.
<S>
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Sounds good, but only if the Storch can take of from tank spawns.
If not -1
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Because we don't want to be simulating legally blind pilots who can't spot a 30 ton tank parked in an open field, which is what it would amount to lacking icons.
1500 yards (Current icon distance for vehicles IIRC)=4500 feet. I can assure you that you can see cars and trucks easily at 5000 feet AGL in an airplane.
Why do we need enemy GV icons
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Only if you remove aircraft icons for GV's and perk the wirble/ostwind at the same time.
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This board is in dire need of some new material.
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This board is in dire need of some new material.
I want the option to shoot pies instead of bullets.. is that OK?
:D
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I want the option to shoot pies instead of bullets.. is that OK?
:D
+1
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The issue of icons - both GV and aircraft - has been argued endlessly on this board. Feelings often run high when the topic is brought up yet again.
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The issue of icons - both GV and aircraft - has been argued endlessly on this board. Feelings often run high when the topic is brought up yet again.
I wish someone could convey in pictures to everyone talking about this issue what a car sitting on the ground 5000 feet below, or what a light aircraft over a mile away looks like from the air on a clear day. Hint: They do NOT look like tiny unidentifiable specks.
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Why do we need enemy GV icons? We have the Storch. The Storch can see them without icons.
Non perked planes bomb perked tanks without any risk to losing a plane or any perk points. In RL, camouflage such as
nets or tree branches covered tanks and other valuable ground vehicles. They also parked their gv's in burned out building as well.
You cannot hide a gv in the current terrains.
If you don't have anything to contribute, whether in favor or against, or can't stay on topic, please stay out of the thread.
<S>
Its true, nets were used for cammo. We used nets and IR sheeting all the time for cammo. The nets cannot simply be thrown over vehicles however, they need to be blended into the environment via the use of poles and cages to give a natural outline.
As a result, this takes a considerable amount of time, this should be modelled.
Also needing modelling is the constant hinderance of every single piece of equipment you are either wearing, or carrying, perpetually snagging on cam nets and causing an effect similar to being inextricably caught in a spider web!
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Anyone who flys east west over Arizona regularly as a commercial passenger sees a major north south highway every flight from 25k. You also see cars and trucks driving down that highway during the day. Because it's a major flyway, you also see private planes and jets go by miles away and thousands of feet below. Unless they are painted black or dark blue, they always stand out in white and other bright colors. Sunlight is amazing stuff when it interacts with 3D objects and bright color.
In the game on occasion, fighters in bare aluminum will stand out way past 6k and even sparkle in the sun. But, most of our fighters and bombers are painted in dark none reflective colors. And like I said above. Black, brown, green, gray, and dark blue doesn't stand out like white and bright colors at a distance because of how sunlight interacts with them.
A vehicle sitting still against terrain color and clutter painted in similar colors will be hard to pick out.
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I wish someone could convey in pictures to everyone talking about this issue what a car sitting on the ground 5000 feet below, or what a light aircraft over a mile away looks like from the air on a clear day. Hint: They do NOT look like tiny unidentifiable specks.
I might have a pic like that. From 10-12k I could ID cars in the parking lot at the drop zone, easy to see. But they were in no way camouflaged.
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Just make bump map terrain not disablable.
I have a weak integrated graphics card and the frame rate hit is 1 frame per second.
We have guys disabling bump map and other settings to uncover tanks hidden in even the most dense cluster of trees.
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Just make bump map terrain not disablable.
I have a weak integrated graphics card and the frame rate hit is 1 frame per second.
We have guys disabling bump map and other settings to uncover tanks hidden in even the most dense cluster of trees.
Good, the GVers must be bombed back to their desktops.
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Just make bump map terrain not disablable.
I have a weak integrated graphics card and the frame rate hit is 1 frame per second.
We have guys disabling bump map and other settings to uncover tanks hidden in even the most dense cluster of trees.
I haven't thought of disabling bump map. I will try that next outing in search of GVs.
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-1 for disappearing icons. Someone sitting still and making a base flash without an icon would be too irritating. I vote for increased gv icon range, so that I could shoot/bomb them some more.
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Just make bump map terrain not disablable.
I have a weak integrated graphics card and the frame rate hit is 1 frame per second.
We have guys disabling bump map and other settings to uncover tanks hidden in even the most dense cluster of trees.
iirc when the settings are turned down and a tank is hidden, shells come from knowhere. that is, the game hides the tank behind an invisible cloak because the trees are not being generated.
I agree it is much easier to see objects on the ground without bump map terrain on. good for them.
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I might have a pic like that. From 10-12k I could ID cars in the parking lot at the drop zone, easy to see. But they were in no way camouflaged.
The rub is that a an object on the ground could range from invisible to sticking out like a sore thumb, depending on background. Anything in the open with nothing to break up the outline sticks out, no matter the paint scheme, in the midst of trees and vegetation would be a different matter. But 2D screens don't seem to be able to simulate this distinction well.
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Get rid of freindly gv icons first.
Then argue about reducing / eliminating the enemy icons further.
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We see about 1/2 scale in AH on an average size monitor? In rough terms then a tank is 1/2 have size.
The icon I would guess brings back closer to scale I would guess.
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We see about 1/2 scale in AH on an average size monitor? In rough terms then a tank is 1/2 have size.
The icon I would guess brings back closer to scale I would guess.
interesting question. i would guess we see a scale much smaller than half.
20 inch monitor vs. a 40 foot plane.
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Perk the only mobile air defense vehicles available ?
-1
Only if you remove aircraft icons for GV's and perk the wirble/ostwind at the same time.
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Perk the only mobile air defense vehicles available ?
-1
There is the M16 and Jeep, both of which you can get kills in.
4 20mms and 1 37, if used right, can get you many kills.
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Why do we need enemy GV icons? We have the Storch. The Storch can see them without icons.
Non perked planes bomb perked tanks without any risk to losing a plane or any perk points. In RL, camouflage such as
nets or tree branches covered tanks and other valuable ground vehicles. They also parked their gv's in burned out building as well.
You cannot hide a gv in the current terrains.
If you don't have anything to contribute, whether in favor or against, or can't stay on topic, please stay out of the thread.
<S>
mano--r u nuts--it's hard enough to see the gv's now as it is.
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Why do we need enemy GV icons? We have the Storch. The Storch can see them without icons.
Non perked planes bomb perked tanks without any risk to losing a plane or any perk points. In RL, camouflage such as
nets or tree branches covered tanks and other valuable ground vehicles. They also parked their gv's in burned out building as well.
You cannot hide a gv in the current terrains.
If you don't have anything to contribute, whether in favor or against, or can't stay on topic, please stay out of the thread.
<S>
I think a simple compromise on this would be to give tanks the option of using camouflage tarps. But keeping GV icons. There are some who don't have good sight, who would be alienated and unable to play. Personally, I think if a tarp is used GV icons (for enemy) should be reduced to 600 yards, and for friendlies should be reduced to 2.5-3k.
Also, with the new terrain engine, it looks like shadows/shade and perhaps even night time will be an effective tactical tool used for ground warfare. Since it is still in the works, it is hard to say what (if any) limitations there are.
:salute
As for the latter part... when does anyone do that? :D
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interesting question. i would guess we see a scale much smaller than half.
20 inch monitor vs. a 40 foot plane.
I say that from a perspective of the cockpit view. The P38 instrument panel in full scale I think is 32" across the bottom. You may be right on the scale you see outside the cockpit. I
If you go to a big tv you can get full scale view of the instrument panel.
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I say that from a perspective of the cockpit view. The P38 instrument panel in full scale I think is 32" across the bottom. You may be right on the scale you see outside the cockpit. I
If you go to a big tv you can get full scale view of the instrument panel.
Hi Randy,
There really is not a concept of scale in 3d graphics. Scale only applies to an item when you put a ruler to paper. When you are view things on a screen, it isn't about measuring the item on the screen with a ruler, it is about the angle of your vision the object covers.
Think of it as looking threw different layers of colored glass each with a identical vehicle painted on each pane , and each one being a different size. Position the smaller one closer to you and the largest farthest away.
If you positioned them correctly all the vehicles would lay exactly over each other and look the same size to you. So looking at a small monitor close up is exactly the same as looking at a large monitor farther away.
What you persieve as scale can be changed simply by zooming in (i.e. changing your angle of view) to match the distance you are from the screen. And the view is then the same angle and same relative size as real life.
HiTech
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I think the best way to drive more people away from the game is to do away with icons for GVs. They already enjoy a special status where they can see you at six K and you can't see them till you are 4 to 600 yards away. Let's not fix something that's not broken!
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Don't turn them off, just reduce the friendly ones to be the same as the enemy ones. If the enemy has the limitation of not being able to see them, there's no reason the friendlies shouldn't have it as well. The only thing it 'improves' about the game is it makes dragging to wirbs easier.
Wiley.
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Don't turn them off, just reduce the friendly ones to be the same as the enemy ones. If the enemy has the limitation of not being able to see them, there's no reason the friendlies shouldn't have it as well. The only thing it 'improves' about the game is it makes dragging to wirbs easier.
Wiley.
This is exactly what I have been advocating. The "usual GVs over all else" guys don't want anything that weakens the ability of GVs to kill airplanes though and they always argue that friendly aircraft having their six cleared by a GV after having flown 3 miles to pull the enemy aircraft is realistic.
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Hi Randy,
There really is not a concept of scale in 3d graphics. Scale only applies to an item when you put a ruler to paper. When you are view things on a screen, it isn't about measuring the item on the screen with a ruler, it is about the angle of your vision the object covers.
Think of it as looking threw different layers of colored glass each with a identical vehicle painted on each pane , and each one being a different size. Position the smaller one closer to you and the largest farthest away.
If you positioned them correctly all the vehicles would lay exactly over each other and look the same size to you. So looking at a small monitor close up is exactly the same as looking at a large monitor farther away.
What you persieve as scale can be changed simply by zooming in (i.e. changing your angle of view) to match the distance you are from the screen. And the view is then the same angle and same relative size as real life.
HiTech
Thanks Hiteck for getting me straight on 3D PC images albeit still a bit confusing. My first drafting training was using pencil, black-ink and velum. There scale was scale. :) No doubt though it is apples and oranges that I was trying to compare.
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I can see a Toyota Corolla cruising down the interstate at from a commercial airliner at altitude. In AH I can't see a 30 ton tank driving across a field at one tenth that distance. Until such time as we have anything resembling real life vision in game, icons need to remain.
There's a small National guard armory near the airport where I keep my Cessna. Out front of that armory is a Surplus tank. It is CLEARLY visible and easily identifiable as a tank (not a car or truck or shed) from 4000+ feet without any effort whatsoever.
If you're curious what it (more or less) looks like from that vantage point. Feel free to Google Griffin Spalding County airport. The tank is NNE of the approach end of runway 32. Using the satellite map, zoom all the way in when you find it and then back out one click. That's what the tank more or less looks like from 4-5k if you need glasses (blurry). You can clearly see its a tank and its almost twice as big as the car, minivan, or pickup parked just west of it.
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I can see a Toyota Corolla cruising down the interstate at from a commercial airliner at altitude. In AH I can't see a 30 ton tank driving across a field at one tenth that distance. Until such time as we have anything resembling real life vision in game, icons need to remain.
There's a small National guard armory near the airport where I keep my Cessna. Out front of that armory is a Surplus tank. It is CLEARLY visible and easily identifiable as a tank (not a car or truck or shed) from 4000+ feet without any effort whatsoever.
If you're curious what it (more or less) looks like from that vantage point. Feel free to Google Griffin Spalding County airport. The tank is NNE of the approach end of runway 32. Using the satellite map, zoom all the way in when you find it and then back out one click. That's what the tank more or less looks like from 4-5k if you need glasses (blurry). You can clearly see its a tank and its almost twice as big as the car, minivan, or pickup parked just west of it.
you can tell it's a corolla from 7miles away, amazing. can you also tell how much gas is in the tank? and how many miles are left in the warranty?
there's a crane parked 1/2 mile from the entrance to the mill plant where i work. I know it's a crane because it's been parked there for 3 months. otherwise I will miss it. if you tell people to look for the tank from 5k away, they will find a tank. if you ask them to look for something out of the ordinary most likely they will find nothing.
semp
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you can tell it's a corolla from 7miles away, amazing. can you also tell how much gas is in the tank? and how many miles are left in the warranty?
there's a crane parked 1/2 mile from the entrance to the mill plant where i work. I know it's a crane because it's been parked there for 3 months. otherwise I will miss it. if you tell people to look for the tank from 5k away, they will find a tank. if you ask them to look for something out of the ordinary most likely they will find nothing.
semp
if you tell me there's a tank 5k away i MIGHT find it at 600ft.
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plane to visual range is this--gv stopped 600ft---vehicle running--1200ft---but if the gv is stopped and hiding goodluck..and if your hunting a wirble or osti--and u gotta get 600 to see him before he fire-your dead because wirb 1.5k-2.0 if your a good shot--osti range 3.5 to 4.5k....and a bomb has to travel 800ft to arm..so u can't see a wirb until 600ft away--bomb has to travel 800ft to arm--hmmm 200ft difference--partial solution make stopped gv visable at 800ft..moving gv at 1400ft..hehe works for me--and Mano if you want gv's with no icons--go ava or someother special arena's :furious
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Because we don't want to be simulating legally blind pilots who can't spot a 30 ton tank parked in an open field, which is what it would amount to lacking icons.
1500 yards (Current icon distance for vehicles IIRC)=4500 feet. I can assure you that you can see cars and trucks easily at 5000 feet AGL in an airplane.
600ft sitting still--1200ft moving
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plane to visual range is this--gv stopped 600ft---vehicle running--1200ft---but if the gv is stopped and hiding goodluck..and if your hunting a wirble or osti--and u gotta get 600 to see him before he fire-your dead because wirb 1.5k-2.0 if your a good shot--osti range 3.5 to 4.5k....and a bomb has to travel 800ft to arm..so u can't see a wirb until 600ft away--bomb has to travel 800ft to arm--hmmm 200ft difference--partial solution make stopped gv visable at 800ft..moving gv at 1400ft..hehe works for me--and Mano if you want gv's with no icons--go ava or someother special arena's :furious
I think that range should be for tanks. I think m16s ostiwinds and wirbles should be the 1200 range icons, engine on or off. However, tanks, jeeps and m3s/251's should be 600 engine off 1200 (normal) engine on.
I think that is totally fair, anyone else have any comments on it?
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I think that range should be for tanks. I think m16s ostiwinds and wirbles should be the 1200 range icons, engine on or off. However, tanks, jeeps and m3s/251's should be 600 engine off 1200 (normal) engine on.
I think that is totally fair, anyone else have any comments on it?
I think as long as GV's get icons for aircraft, aircraft should get the exact same at the exact same distances.
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I think that range should be for tanks. I think m16s ostiwinds and wirbles should be the 1200 range icons, engine on or off. However, tanks, jeeps and m3s/251's should be 600 engine off 1200 (normal) engine on.
I think that is totally fair, anyone else have any comments on it?
i can live with that ^^
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I think as long as GV's get icons for aircraft, aircraft should get the exact same at the exact same distances.
:headscratch:
I was saying that tanks should have icons show at 1200 if engine is on (parked or moving) and 600 if off. All anti-air would have 1200 icons (from planes view) whether engine is on or off, due to their effective ranges.
As for planes having limited icons based on distance (for example 600 to 1200 as mentioned above), I don't think that is .. really necessary. I can go for planes having a limited icon range (from a GV perspective) of friend and foe down from 6k to 3k. That seems fair to me.
My reasoning, being a skilled - in - my - own - way jack of all trades guy that I am, is that planes can fly out of the anti-airs effective range, even moreso if the icons for wirbles/osti's and m16s stayed at 1200. Because they wouldn't have time to react. I think m16s perhaps should stay at 1k though, because of 50 cals, 50 cals dont' pack the punch that the 20mms and 37 does, obviously.
However, having 600-1200 ranged icons from GV perspective (meaning you only see planes icon at 1200 or less) is really.. unbalanced. Considering once you have ascertained the position of the enemy tank you simply pull up and if you're good at bombing, you can easily take out the tank or wirble without having to be within their effective range.
I am an average player, at least by my standards, and at the time I was playing I didn't have a great computer (waiting to get it back :furious ), and yet I could find and kill tanks long before their icons were even up. I could see them from 3k away, and my eyesight isn't the greatest, and my computer barely meets the minimum requirements of Aces High.
Even if the game is somehow unbalanced, I have been able to get kills with no problem; even with all my computer's issues. However, I keep getting bashed on all sides saying that I somehow don't understand, in my opinion, it's on how the player interacts with what they are engaging that determines their 'fate'. If you don't want to die, then stop flying foolishly, and if you want to drive safely, then learn how to aim!
:cheers: