Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: homersipes on February 13, 2014, 08:35:00 PM
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I have had my 2003 gmc 2500HD for almost 4 years now and have not had any real issues as far as driveability until a couple weeks ago. we were headed to the store and it dinged at me and came up on the message center as "reduced engine power". So I turned it off waited 30 seconds and bingo started back up and no issues. all the gauges were where they should be, charging just over 14 volts, oil pressure 40 lbs, temp was around 150, wasnt totally warmed up yet. so when I got home looked this issue up online and found its a DISASTER that seems to doom these trucks. took the easy route and cleaned the throttle body, was pretty crappy, I used MAF cleaner on a rag to wipe the butterfly down and the throat as best as I could, there was a carbon ridge. went almost 2 weeks and not a problem, thought it was just dirty. Well yesterday on the way to work, did it again, same story pulled over. got about 2 miles further and it did it again :mad: :bhead drove the rest of the way to work no issues at all, or on the way home. so head to work today, jump on interstate cruising along at 70, with a big rig right behind me,BING "reduced engine power" and truck goes straight to idle, throw my 4 ways on damn near get rearended by tractor trailer, to the side I go. :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: now its irritating the crap out of me. get to work scan for codes, get "1516 TPS out of range" so thinking that the TPS is junk, go to part store for pricing, ummmmm cant get that have to buy entire throttle body he says. okay before I buy it I figured would do more reading and testing. I have read about guys replacing throttle body, pedal sensor, wiring pigtails, and even the engine, and STILL gets the same message. So I found this site that tells how to test the throttle body and sensors
http://easyautodiagnostics.com/gmc/TAC/4.8L_5.3L_6.0L/resistance-tests/throttle_body_tests_1.php
went through and tested everything and the only 2 I had continuity through was C and A which is the TAC. so if this test is accurate then my throttle body needs to be replaced, correct?? :headscratch: there is no rhyme or reason to when it does this, the wiring has been know to be fauly, so I started it up and wiggled every wire under the dash and under the hood and cant make it throw that engine power reduce crap, so I dont think its a wiring issue. the only wires I havent checked is the grounds, will have to do that in the am, I am sick of looking at it. have any of you had this issue, and do you think by the ohm test the throtle body needs replacing? any help would be MUCHLY appreciated.
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Try LS1Tech forums too.
C5/C6 corvettes use a similar setup but different (similar) TAC modules and pedals.
This is a drive by wire setup not drive by cable setup on your LQ4 (6.0L?) right? I have an intake manifold and some wiring off the donor LQ4 I'm using for my C3 engine swap and didn't really pay attention to what I pulled off since I wasn't using any of it. I'll be home on/about the 19th but LS1Tech might have some leads for you.
I wouldn't feel awful about using a salvaged throttle body if that's your problem and you should be able to find one cheap. I'm pretty sure the take off parts from mine are drive by cable but I'd need to look at it when I'm home to make sure.
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1. Run a redundant ground to the Throttle Actuator Control (TAC) module. A Black wire, pin 15.
2. Check for loss of B+ at the Pink wire, pin 7 when the problem happens.
3. Load test the wires using a high beam headlamp. Wiggle the harness and check for a glitch.
4. Take a snap shot using the scanner and check TP 1, TP 2 and Accelerator Pedal Position (APP) voltage values when the code sets.
::::EDIT:::
i should add, that i'm assuming you've got the 6 liter VIN "U". check the eighth vin digit. that tells ya which engine ya have.
while not as common on gm products, as it was on fords, check ALL of the wires right at the connector for the throttle body, and the tac. i've run into a wire broken inside of the insulation, yet it looked perfectly fine on the outside, as the insulation wasn't even damaged. you need to kind of feel for it. you can feel the break inside the insulation, but it's hard.
also, check ALL grounds, as even the seemingly unimportant grounds can/will wreak havoc on modern computer control systems. also....do you have access to a scanner, that you can leave hooked up, while you're driving? if so, go into datastream, and monitor the tps, accelerator pedal position sensors. set those parameters up to graph(very easy on the MODIS), and check those when the problem happens.
hopefully some of that was helpful......
:::EDIT AGAIN"""
your parts guy was right. you cannot buy just the throttle position sensor. you need to buy the entire throttle body. check carefully though. some of these must be programmed to the vehicle, and aren't just a simple bolt on. i just had a customer spent nearly $800+programming on his volvo s80 after i'd diagnosed it for him.
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Or do that stuff ^^^^
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just checked. no programming required to r&r either of those.
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1. Run a redundant ground to the Throttle Actuator Control (TAC) module. A Black wire, pin 15.
2. Check for loss of B+ at the Pink wire, pin 7 when the problem happens.
3. Load test the wires using a high beam headlamp. Wiggle the harness and check for a glitch.
4. Take a snap shot using the scanner and check TP 1, TP 2 and Accelerator Pedal Position (APP) voltage values when the code sets.
::::EDIT:::
i should add, that i'm assuming you've got the 6 liter VIN "U". check the eighth vin digit. that tells ya which engine ya have.
while not as common on gm products, as it was on fords, check ALL of the wires right at the connector for the throttle body, and the tac. i've run into a wire broken inside of the insulation, yet it looked perfectly fine on the outside, as the insulation wasn't even damaged. you need to kind of feel for it. you can feel the break inside the insulation, but it's hard.
also, check ALL grounds, as even the seemingly unimportant grounds can/will wreak havoc on modern computer control systems. also....do you have access to a scanner, that you can leave hooked up, while you're driving? if so, go into datastream, and monitor the tps, accelerator pedal position sensors. set those parameters up to graph(very easy on the MODIS), and check those when the problem happens.
so to make sure I understand what you are saying here.
1. run a NEW ground to the TAC? to pin 15? which pin is that, the only black wire there probably right?
2. when it cuts out, check for battery power to the pink wire at the throttle body?
3. with the key ON check voltage at the connector on the throttle body? I have wiggled and pulled on each wire while it is running and doesnt throw it into REP.
4. this one I am clueless on, not sure if the scanner we have can do that??
yes its the 6.0 gas hog, and seems like everyone that has this electronic gas pedal crap has issues what ever happened to a throttle cable? never had issues with a cable before hahah.
and yeah gotta check all the grounds, havent done that yet.
thanks for input :aok seems like this is a very common issue but cant really get a fix on what happens, have read about guys taking their rigs to 4-7 dealerships and left with the same issue just without a few hundred dollars in their wallets. hate to sa it but should have bought a toyota, as they stand behind their vehicle issues.
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so to make sure I understand what you are saying here.
1. run a NEW ground to the TAC? to pin 15? which pin is that, the only black wire there probably right?Correct. don't eliminate the original ground. simply add your own ground to it
2. when it cuts out, check for battery power to the pink wire at the throttle body?correct
3. with the key ON check voltage at the connector on the throttle body? I have wiggled and pulled on each wire while it is running and doesnt throw it into REP.correct. the wiggling should eliminate the possibility of a wire broken inside the insulation. also, go back about 4-6 inches from the connector whilst doing the wiggle test.
4. this one I am clueless on, not sure if the scanner we have can do that??most scanners can do a snapshot. also, i'd forgotten to mention. check freeze frame data for that code failure.
yes its the 6.0 gas hog, and seems like everyone that has this electronic gas pedal crap has issues what ever happened to a throttle cable? never had issues with a cable before hahah.
and yeah gotta check all the grounds, havent done that yet.
thanks for input :aok seems like this is a very common issue but cant really get a fix on what happens, have read about guys taking their rigs to 4-7 dealerships and left with the same issue just without a few hundred dollars in their wallets. hate to sa it but should have bought a toyota, as they stand behind their vehicle issues.
they went to electronic throttles, as it's much easier to intergrate the traction control, abs, and stability control this way. the computer will actively back off on your throttle under certain conditions.
stay away from dealerships. find a local momandpop shop that's got a decent rep for diagnostics. they'll find it faster.
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thanks for input was up until 3am reading on this, 1 guy replaced, the foot pedal, throttle body, all the pig tails, grounds, and even pcm and it still does the REP. seems to me from what I have been reading once it starts this there really is no cure to fix it. the code 1516 has SO many things it can be, and I cant find much on the 1516 TPS out of range. from what I know and been told if its out of range its junk, but its so friggin intermittent, I guess its like having a code pop up, erase code good for a couple days before it comes back on. so to check the voltage when it does this, do I need a piercing probe to probe wire and check to ground? there have been hundreds if not thousands of these rigs with the same exact issue GM should stand behind it and repair this before someone gets killed, I couldnt imagine being out west, hauling a camper trailer and having it do that, no place to pull over and not enough power to do anything. It is a pretty scarey feeling when it does it on the interstate. will never buy another one, I like the 90s gmc trucks, simple easy to work on.
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Hope this helps.....
Customers may have a concern of lack of power and engine light on. DTCs set will almost always contain a P1518 and may contain any of the following (P1516, P2108, P0220, P0120, U0107). An improperly torqued TAC module ground may be at fault. The Ground is listed as G104 on TAC module schematic which is incorrectly labeled on SI document ID 855376. The correct ground is G103. The locator for SI states that G103 is located on the left hand side which is incorrect. However, there have been field reports stating that G104 has also corrected this condition. G104 is a horizontal bolt in the rear of the left head and extremely difficult to reach. G104 should also be tightened at the same time.
There have also been field cases where ground G110 on the outer drivers side frame rail caused a P1518 code and an intermittent connection at splice 102 on the intake.
All published SI diagnostics should be followed in addition to following the recommendation listed.
Recommendation/Instructions:
Tighten ground G103 located behind the right cylinder head (passenger side) just below the head and mounted into the block. The ground uses a 13 mm bolt head mounted vertically to the engine block just above the bell housing.
Models:
(03 Chevrolet Silverado 2WD, 4WD) and (03 GMC Sierra 2WD, 4WD) and (03 Chevrolet Tahoe 2WD, 4WD) and (03 Chevrolet GMC Yukon 2WD, 4WD) and (03 Chevrolet Suburban 2WD, 4WD) and GMC Yukon XL 2WD, 4WD
There is also a ground below the drivers door on the frame rail that should be checked. Also the pigtail to the throttle body should be inspected as the wire can be broken inside the insulation. Gently pull on the wires. if the stretch and break easily replace with a service connector that has new wires already installed.
A good technician will not replace parts until he finds the problem. :rolleyes:
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A good technician will not replace parts until he finds the problem. rolleyes
so true :aok I dont like throwing parts at vehicles, and this is hard to pin point the cause, because it can be soo many things. going to see if my buddy will help me tonight chase wires and grounds, figure 2 sets of eyes is better than 1.
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you can also use a dvom, or a scope and sweep the tps if you suspect that. you should be able to do the tps, and the accelerator pedal position sensor with koeo. do the sweep very slowly, and watch for voltage to go wonky, or if on a scope, it'll drop for a split second.
always test these things koeo. forget about using resistance. too much chance of erroneous readings.
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okay so a dvom is a digital volt meter right? lol and how do I do a sweep? sorry never had to deal with this crap before, anytime had to replace something as far as sensors, pull code, replace sensor. have had to figure out basic wiring before but as I said never to this depth. koeo is key on engine off right? so to do this test, would I unplug each plug and test each wire, or can I probe the back of the plug and test for volts? sorry need this crap spelled out for me :headscratch: this is why I hate new vehicles, older rigs, gas, spark, compression, and air, easy :lol new trucks suck! :D I have done the wiggle test to the whole harness and get no REP, so I am thinking that it HAS to be the pedal, or throttle body. havent done the grounds yet going to take it to my buddies house later and maybe both of us can figure something out. so what steps would you take at approaching this? seems like the wiggle test eliminates wires broken, so I would need to check the grounds, then do the sweep that you were talking about. if you could instruct me on how to do this would be awesome :salute
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okay so a dvom is a digital volt meter right? lol and how do I do a sweep? sorry never had to deal with this crap before, anytime had to replace something as far as sensors, pull code, replace sensor. have had to figure out basic wiring before but as I said never to this depth. koeo is key on engine off right? so to do this test, would I unplug each plug and test each wire, or can I probe the back of the plug and test for volts? sorry need this crap spelled out for me :headscratch: this is why I hate new vehicles, older rigs, gas, spark, compression, and air, easy :lol new trucks suck! :D I have done the wiggle test to the whole harness and get no REP, so I am thinking that it HAS to be the pedal, or throttle body. havent done the grounds yet going to take it to my buddies house later and maybe both of us can figure something out. so what steps would you take at approaching this? seems like the wiggle test eliminates wires broken, so I would need to check the grounds, then do the sweep that you were talking about. if you could instruct me on how to do this would be awesome :salute
correct....koeo is key on engine off. do not disconnect the connectors. backprobe into the back side of the connector. you need to identify the signal wire, and the ground wire. to do a sweep, you're simply working the throttle pedal. very slowly you'll depress the pedal, watching the voltage reading. i think this one will go from about .7Volts up to about 4.9volts. that should be the tps. the accelerator pedal position sensor often goes opposite the tps, so you'd look for about 4.9v down to about .7v.
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u can save time and money--if you just take it to the gm/gmc dealer-which has the right equipment-to run diag's and the diesel tech's have more than likey see your problem before....just sayin..goodluck
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u can save time and money--if you just take it to the gm/gmc dealer-which has the right equipment-to run diag's and the diesel tech's have more than likey see your problem before....just sayin..goodluck
the problem with dealers is that the good guys that would be able to figure it out don't want to work on it. they want the gravy jobs. accordingly the guys that don't know, or are learning get the job. and you end up spending more money to figure it out.
there is very little from any of the domestic manufacturers that us private guys can't figure out. :aok
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the problem with dealers is that the good guys that would be able to figure it out don't want to work on it. they want the gravy jobs. accordingly the guys that don't know, or are learning get the job. and you end up spending more money to figure it out.
there is very little from any of the domestic manufacturers that us private guys can't figure out. :aok
I must say at the Dealer you will spend more but you have a better chance of getting it repaired without creating more problems. There are good private shops out there but many don't have the proper knowledge or equipment. A scan tool would tell you instantly the voltages from the tps sensors and if they agree with each other.
Good Techs get cars that others have attempted to fix and now that the customer has spent a bunch at a cheapo shop they are not happy when they need to shell out for the real fix. Had a car the other day that a private shop busted out the bulb in the Cluster so now they need that plus the real repair. :rolleyes:
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it should be noted that those "cheapo" shops are generally midas, mienke, sts, and those chain types of places. most of us with private shops have a TON of equipment just for diagnosing. hell......i've got4 different scanners, just to be able to cover all the makes/models.
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You need someone to go to the detail of the code event in the scantool and print the extended datalist values of the freeze frame data.
Also......I'm sure this system has some sort of readiness monitor of the throttle system that takes a few drive cycles to fully execute.
If you aren't getting a "hard code" but rather a readiness monitor that isn't completing successfully, then you might find information in that monitor's details.
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well the last 2 times I have taken a vehicle to a deealership to get fixed, they have screwed me over. the first time was about 10 years ago, had a free oil change with the purchase of the car, well when I did the next oil change the drain plug was completely rounded off and had to use a 12" pipe wrench to get it out. the next experience was at a GMC dealer with this same truck 2 years ago, I blew a tranny line, so I took it to them instead of me fighting with the lines, $500 later get the truck home, it had been snowing a bit and had friends over so I parked on the lawn. went out to move it when they all left and had about 4" snow, reverse spin, put in 4WD NOTHING, so had to have my buddy come over and pull me out of the holes that I dug, drove it into my garage, and found that they had unplugged the 4WD, the plug was no where near tranny lines, so not sure what happened, but before that I never had any issues with the 4WD. that was the last time I will ever take a rig to a dealership. just got home after running about 70 miles and no REP, dang POS hardly trust it anymore :bhead :bhead should have kept my 90 z71 :lol
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well the last 2 times I have taken a vehicle to a deealership to get fixed, they have screwed me over.
this is the same basic story i get from about 80% of the people i deal with.
i sent a lady with her mercedes to the local mercedes dealer, 'cause i wasn't able to access information for correct diagnosis. $600 later, she's back, with the same problem. i sent a friend to the local bmw dealer with his wife's 7 series for one problem, that i thought they'd be able to handle better than me. he came to me with 4 pages of "needs now" stuff, totaling about $11k. the car wasn't worth that, and he pulled it out of there, then traded it in of a ford 500. i could go on, but no use polluting the thread with junk.....
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Crate engine :noid
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ints not the engine thats the issue, the stupid fly by wire crap, the motor runs awesome, just the throttle setup is stupidly rediculous :lol
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ints not the engine thats the issue, the stupid fly by wire crap, the motor runs awesome, just the throttle setup is stupidly rediculous :lol
Thats the way of the future. Cars are getting more complex every day with more and more computers in vehicles. Your problem is fairly simple and even your 90' truck had a single tps sensor. When your computer gives the rep message it's trying to protect you and the vehicle from injury from an uncontrolled powerplant.
The backyard Mechanic is surely at a disadvantage these days and computer knowledge is abosulutely essential.
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yup computers in cars are getting crazy, they brake for you, can back up for you, call you, email you, I remember reading about one a couple years ago that could drive its self. I believe they tested it in arizona but not 100% sure though. Its not just from a computer stand point any more either, there are many fasteners that require a special wrench or socket. But once you get beyond all the electrical and computers an engine is still an engine :aok
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Crate engine :noid
with todays crate engines, it is almost beyond belief what you can build. hell....many companies make kits to drop gm's ls series engines right into old hot rods. ford does the same with the coyote engines.
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Thats the way of the future. Cars are getting more complex every day with more and more computers in vehicles. Your problem is fairly simple and even your 90' truck had a single tps sensor. When your computer gives the rep message it's trying to protect you and the vehicle from injury from an uncontrolled powerplant.
The backyard Mechanic is surely at a disadvantage these days and computer knowledge is abosulutely essential.
that is why i can figure out nearly anything now a days.
at the shop i had my first job at in this field, i got the "tempo from hell". because the other guys didn't want to work on it. i spent three dam days on that car, and it beat me. the boss told me to button it up, that he was sending it to ford. i still remember what the problem was, as i talked to the ford tech when they figured it out. somehow, i'd missed the orange ground wire for the eec4 fuel injection. that single mistake is what made me so anal in my diagnostics. to this day, that tempo is the only car that ever beat me. i actually got so good with the ford EEC systems, that no one in the shop ever got one of them again, as they all ended up in my bay.
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yup computers in cars are getting crazy, they brake for you, can back up for you, call you, email you, I remember reading about one a couple years ago that could drive its self. I believe they tested it in arizona but not 100% sure though. Its not just from a computer stand point any more either, there are many fasteners that require a special wrench or socket. But once you get beyond all the electrical and computers an engine is still an engine :aok
in general, the computer systems on todays cars are why we can have our cake and eat it too. i mean.....picture your truck, with 60's tech. you'd be getting about 4mpg, and have no torque or power to speak of. even todays grocery getters are better performers in EVERY category than our hotrods of years past.
that all said, i do not like, or agree with having automatic braking systems, lane hold, etc installed. if you need those, you shouldn't be driving.
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that is why i can figure out nearly anything now a days.
at the shop i had my first job at in this field, i got the "tempo from hell". because the other guys didn't want to work on it. i spent three dam days on that car, and it beat me. the boss told me to button it up, that he was sending it to ford. i still remember what the problem was, as i talked to the ford tech when they figured it out. somehow, i'd missed the orange ground wire for the eec4 fuel injection. that single mistake is what made me so anal in my diagnostics. to this day, that tempo is the only car that ever beat me. i actually got so good with the ford EEC systems, that no one in the shop ever got one of them again, as they all ended up in my bay.
May I ask if you work for a dealership?
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I believe they tested it in arizona but not 100% sure though.
Heh, Google has been running self driving vehicles in California for years already. Computerized cars are actually not necessarily bad at all for the DIY guy. You just need to get an OBD II reader and compatible software, the car will inform you what is wrong much better than the old 'listen and wiggle' type of analysis would tell you.
Many people are intimidated by the electronics and the plastic covers of engines without realizing that by removing the plastic and plugging your laptop to the car, things can be still as simple as ever. The only real complication comes if the car computer itself is the one with problems. That can send you and your mechanic to an expensive wild goose chase. I've heard horror stories of stealerships replacing part after part, chasing the false error messages from a broken car computer or error messages generated by a simple flat battery.
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May I ask if you work for a dealership?
i never have worked at a dealer per se......closest i came was working at a limo dealer. there were politics. one needed to keep their opinions to themselves, if they didn't agree with everyone else, or else they got the crap jobs. guess how long i survived there? not very long. even though i was one of only 2 of us that could figure out the wiring nightmares that the limo builders created with all the extras. or that i could have a tranny out and back in in less than half the time of virtually anyone else in the shop. i'll tell ya. 6 months. i couldn't take the atmosphere. and i do not keep my opinions to myself. it sucked. i will never work for a dealer. ever.
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Heh, Google has been running self driving vehicles in California for years already. Computerized cars are actually not necessarily bad at all for the DIY guy. You just need to get an OBD II reader and compatible software, the car will inform you what is wrong much better than the old 'listen and wiggle' type of analysis would tell you.
Many people are intimidated by the electronics and the plastic covers of engines without realizing that by removing the plastic and plugging your laptop to the car, things can be still as simple as ever. The only real complication comes if the car computer itself is the one with problems. That can send you and your mechanic to an expensive wild goose chase. I've heard horror stories of stealerships replacing part after part, chasing the false error messages from a broken car computer or error messages generated by a simple flat battery.
it won't send a good mechanic on a wild goose chase.
i just had a mercury with a bad puter last month. it took less than an hour to figure out. i do know guys that would do what you've typed above though.
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May I ask if you work for a dealership?
I currently work for a Dealership for over ten years. Cap1 and others are correct in some respects about dealers but it happens at the private shops also. It does come down to the skills of the individual Mechanic. We have 3 long time Techs that have very few problems with Vehicles and most are repaired the first time in. Many Mechanics struggle with Electrical Wiring that requires a very organised approach. We have cars that have come from other dealers and private shop because they could not figure them out.
Warranty jobs pay less now and good dealer Techs have been pushed out to private shops where they can make more cash. Everyone has horror stories of Dealers and Private Shops alike. Finding a good Mechanic is like finding a good Doctor and we both get many questions at parties. :lol
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it won't send a good mechanic on a wild goose chase.
i just had a mercury with a bad puter last month. it took less than an hour to figure out. i do know guys that would do what you've typed above though.
I've read many stories from MB, BMW etc forums where stealerships have trusted the error messages blindly and got on a part replacement frenzy without fixing the real problem. On some occasions it has cost the car owner multiple thousands and of course they refund nothing once they figure out their mistake.
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Good techs. are leaving dealerships because they get the tough diagnosis jobs.
The bean counters will stack a shop full of unqualified technicians who can't be bothered to up thier game beyond slapping together brake jobs and services and the dealerships pay these guys less per turned hour.
The few competent technicians at dealerships are firmly entrenched in thier careers as team leaders or diagnostic specialists which shields them from the consequences of turning low hours per month......because they do the tough jobs.
There can only be a few of these guys and you can't break into that niche when joining a dealership because they will figure out your skills at diagnosis and you will be put on jobs that begat less labor hours and have unqualified lube techs turning more hours than you on easy stuff.
If you are a mechanic applying to a dealership, best to keep your mouth shut on your skills and simply say you have no diagnostic skills.
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I currently work for a Dealership for over ten years. Cap1 and others are correct in some respects about dealers but it happens at the private shops also. It does come down to the skills of the individual Mechanic. We have 3 long time Techs that have very few problems with Vehicles and most are repaired the first time in. Many Mechanics struggle with Electrical Wiring that requires a very organised approach. We have cars that have come from other dealers and private shop because they could not figure them out.
Warranty jobs pay less now and good dealer Techs have been pushed out to private shops where they can make more cash. Everyone has horror stories of Dealers and Private Shops alike. Finding a good Mechanic is like finding a good Doctor and we both get many questions at parties. :lol
i should add a couple things about dealers........slate...you may even know these guys.
i've had very rare occasion that i couldn't find information on diag. procedures for a ford. there's a guy that works at echelon ford, that i've called a couple of times. he was more than generous with his time to help me out with it every time i called him.
i had a viper truck(srt-10 ram 1500). it came in with the pressure hose blown off of the power steering pump. it's really a weird/stupid setup. the power steering system drives the cooling fan. my initial diag, was that the fitting had worn, and allowed the hose to blow out. replaced, and it came back in a week. now i'm looking deeper. i checked the rack, pump, and other hoses for restrictions and could find none. i couldn't find specific diag for the cooling fan. i called the guys down at performance dodge. once again, those guys spent WAY more time helping me out than i could've expected. and it was actually a bad cooling fan, for almost $1100.
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well I took my truck to my buddies house started with the grounds. chased all the grounds all good and tight, so I started it up and commenced to wiggling all the wires, there is a box on the fire wall that has 2 connectors to it, touched one of them and ding, kicked into REP. So we pulled the plug apart, and found no broken wires or anything, plugged it back in strted it back up and wiggled it again, couldnt get it to do it again after shaking the crap out of every wire in the ENTIRE engine compartment so I am thinking it was a fluke deal. Then we pulled the top of the fuse box off and started looking where the wires go into the bottom of the box. Found a HUGE mouse nest under there and 3 wires that were chewed on, so we cut the chewed spot out and soldered and used heat shrink tubing to repair, so I am hoping :pray that this was the problem.
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I currently work for a Dealership for over ten years. Cap1 and others are correct in some respects about dealers but it happens at the private shops also. It does come down to the skills of the individual Mechanic. We have 3 long time Techs that have very few problems with Vehicles and most are repaired the first time in. Many Mechanics struggle with Electrical Wiring that requires a very organised approach. We have cars that have come from other dealers and private shop because they could not figure them out.
Warranty jobs pay less now and good dealer Techs have been pushed out to private shops where they can make more cash. Everyone has horror stories of Dealers and Private Shops alike. Finding a good Mechanic is like finding a good Doctor and we both get many questions at parties. :lol
I'm not a professional mechanic, but I know enough to get myself in trouble. (And sometimes even out of it :D ) But I have had to deal with dealerships for family members over warranty repairs for two different cars, from two different manufacturers now. I was wondering if you knew why they try so damn hard to keep me away from the mechanic who is actually working on the vehicle? In the case of the first it was a simple bad ball joint/tie rod on a vehicle with well under 20k miles. It took four trips to get them to actually fix the damn thing, and in the end it was exactly what I told them it was. I was also amused that my explanation of the problem to their "Customer Service Rep" was changed to "Noise heard in front end of car."
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Heh, Google has been running self driving vehicles in California for years already. Computerized cars are actually not necessarily bad at all for the DIY guy. You just need to get an OBD II reader and compatible software, the car will inform you what is wrong much better than the old 'listen and wiggle' type of analysis would tell you.
Many people are intimidated by the electronics and the plastic covers of engines without realizing that by removing the plastic and plugging your laptop to the car, things can be still as simple as ever. The only real complication comes if the car computer itself is the one with problems. That can send you and your mechanic to an expensive wild goose chase. I've heard horror stories of stealerships replacing part after part, chasing the false error messages from a broken car computer or error messages generated by a simple flat battery.
I live in california. I have yet to see any of these vehicles. they're probably only at google property, which is not the same as "in california" implying on the freeways. at the mill plant where I work we have these trucks that self drive, since the leaders inside are mostly asleep.
semp
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well I took my truck to my buddies house started with the grounds. chased all the grounds all good and tight, so I started it up and commenced to wiggling all the wires, there is a box on the fire wall that has 2 connectors to it, touched one of them and ding, kicked into REP. So we pulled the plug apart, and found no broken wires or anything, plugged it back in strted it back up and wiggled it again, couldnt get it to do it again after shaking the crap out of every wire in the ENTIRE engine compartment so I am thinking it was a fluke deal. Then we pulled the top of the fuse box off and started looking where the wires go into the bottom of the box. Found a HUGE mouse nest under there and 3 wires that were chewed on, so we cut the chewed spot out and soldered and used heat shrink tubing to repair, so I am hoping :pray that this was the problem.
was that box on the drivers side of the firewall? any chance you can take a picture of it? if it's what i think, it's the throttle actuator control module. if the wires are absolutely not broken inside of the insulation, there's a couple other possibilities.
1) easiest, cheapest, and simplest.......possible corrosion on the electric contacts inside the connector. take the plug off again, and look for a whitish or greenish powdery substance. if you see either, clean em up.(be sure to check both the harness side, and the unit side)
2) while the connector's disconnected, examine the electric contacts inside the connector closely. it's not unheard of for them to actually spread out a bit, thus giving you a poor contact, even when the connector is firmly plugged in. once again, examine both sides.
3) if all of this is good, the TAC module may be bad. it's fairly common on these. this of course is the most expensive possibility. the good news though, is that by duplicating the problem with wire wiggling at that firewall module, you've eliminated the throttle body assembly as the culprit.
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was it #1 in this picture?
(http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa135/1LTCAP/tac_zps0dd00bb1.jpg) (http://s200.photobucket.com/user/1LTCAP/media/tac_zps0dd00bb1.jpg.html)
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yes it was #1 in the pic, and connector #2 was the one that I touched. the connector looked fine no corrosion inside, but it does seem pretty loose on the connection, sloppy fitting I mean. But like I said we shook the crap out of it after we got all the wires fixed and never got it to kick into REP again. I pulled on each wire going into it about 4 inches from plug with the truck running as well. and under #3 was where the nest was, was a green wire with a white stripe, a light green wire, and a pink wire that was chewed on, little bastages :mad: we didnt take it off the firewall, will do that tomorrow night and check both connections on it.
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yes it was #1 in the pic, and connector #2 was the one that I touched. the connector looked fine no corrosion inside, but it does seem pretty loose on the connection, sloppy fitting I mean. But like I said we shook the crap out of it after we got all the wires fixed and never got it to kick into REP again. I pulled on each wire going into it about 4 inches from plug with the truck running as well. and under #3 was where the nest was, was a green wire with a white stripe, a light green wire, and a pink wire that was chewed on, little bastages :mad: we didnt take it off the firewall, will do that tomorrow night and check both connections on it.
you're taking your time checking the wires, right? sometimes just pulling on them won't show a break inside the insulation. you need to kind of bend it around in between your finger and thumb. if you've got any calluses, it could be hard to feel.
also....chewed wires......they've been repaired? properly, or with crimp connectors?
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:aok ya some black tape wrapped around them, that properly fixed right? :D yeah we cut the chewed out, soldered in new section of wire with same gauge and used shrink tubing over the splices. Okay will recheck all wires, bending them around my finger, did not know that :aok I did notice there are about 3 wires in that plug that are kinked pretty good right where it bends and goes into the pin part, maybe pull each wire out 1 at a time and check? Like I said I have never had to deal with internally broken wires in a vehicle before, deal with it a lot at work in water wells, but thats a easy as an ohm reading on the pump from well head, if no continuity, pump has to be pulled and wires checked for continuity blah blah blah, but this kinda bam bozzles me :lol
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:aok ya some black tape wrapped around them, that properly fixed right? :D yeah we cut the chewed out, soldered in new section of wire with same gauge and used shrink tubing over the splices. Okay will recheck all wires, bending them around my finger, did not know that :aok I did notice there are about 3 wires in that plug that are kinked pretty good right where it bends and goes into the pin part, maybe pull each wire out 1 at a time and check? Like I said I have never had to deal with internally broken wires in a vehicle before, deal with it a lot at work in water wells, but thats a easy as an ohm reading on the pump from well head, if no continuity, pump has to be pulled and wires checked for continuity blah blah blah, but this kinda bam bozzles me :lol
tape? :bhead :rofl
soldering, you did em right.
with the bending, don't go nuts....just kinda bend em in between your finger/thumb so ya can feel them. sometimes, you can just squeeze them too. as dumb as it's gonna sound, it's an acquired feel to find them this way.
pulling them out of the connector won't work too well for ya. you'd need a way to release the lock tabs inside the connector.
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are those the same as other connectors? I have used a tiny screw driver and slid it in behind the terminal and that usually releases the pins, well atleast on servos for rc stuff. hahaha yeah black tape has its place but not in fixing wires. I hate working on stuff that has tape all over it, gets all sticky and messy once the adhesive releases. :bhead rewired n entire 75 gmc because of this, and the floorboards consisted of license plates, roofing tar, and tons of self tapper screws :bhead :rofl I bet there was 50 license plates in the floor of that truck. when the wife gets home going to go back over the wires with a fine tooth comb :aok