Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: beau32 on February 13, 2014, 09:00:11 PM

Title: National Archives
Post by: beau32 on February 13, 2014, 09:00:11 PM
Since they took away our internet at work, all we get now is military and government sites. I decided to give the National Archive Website a try. And what a treasure of information is on there. Especially Gun cam film. I post a link below to check out, but I have never seen a good portion of these films. Things from 110's getting attacked, and firing their rockets to lose them, to american pilots strafing german pilots that have crash landed. Hope you all  find it intresting.


http://research.archives.gov/description/65501

Same as above, but the film
http://media.nara.gov/mopix/342/usaf/342-USAF-17629.wmv
Title: Re: National Archives
Post by: bacon8tr on February 13, 2014, 10:06:48 PM
Great find.  Thanks for sharing  :aok
Title: Re: National Archives
Post by: Chalenge on February 14, 2014, 12:50:25 AM
Must be fake video. Vultching in real life? Our boys wouldn't do that! :devil
Title: Re: National Archives
Post by: lyric1 on February 14, 2014, 01:15:30 AM
What is wrong with the 190's in the gun cam footage?
They are not jerking about all over the place when some one got on there 6?



Oh yeah no induced internet lag to save them. :devil
Title: Re: National Archives
Post by: Chalenge on February 14, 2014, 01:35:01 AM
In the cartoon world everyone has instant recovery from spatial disorientation.
Title: Re: National Archives
Post by: Blooz on February 14, 2014, 01:53:31 PM
What is wrong with the 190's in the gun cam footage?
They are not jerking about all over the place when some one got on there 6?
Oh yeah no induced internet lag to save them. :devil

They are mostly "two weekers". Half trained kids, just trying to fly the plane, let alone fight.

Jump on a two weekers six in game and you'll get the same result...an easy kill for the same reason.

Most of us here have been flying cartoon planes for twice as long as the war really lasted. When we make a mistake, we don't die for real, so e get to learn from it. Over and over. For years and years.
Title: Re: National Archives
Post by: Tank-Ace on February 14, 2014, 02:05:09 PM
I'd wager that we'd be pretty tough for any real life pilot to beat in a 1v1 dogfight  :devil.
Title: Re: National Archives
Post by: Chalenge on February 14, 2014, 03:07:19 PM
I'd wager that we'd be pretty tough for any real life pilot to beat in a 1v1 dogfight  :devil.

I'd wager you would get yourself killed before you ever saw an enemy.

@Blooz, sorry but that isn't true either. I can show you tons of videos of many long-term users in AH that do the 'ger-flopen thing.' Even some of the top F4U pilots do it now.
Title: Re: National Archives
Post by: Oldman731 on February 14, 2014, 04:24:19 PM
I'd wager you would get yourself killed before you ever saw an enemy.


Agreed.  (Although you could insist on not flying unless the enemy aircraft had red icons.)  As well, many of the maneuvers we fly in this game would have us barfing our guts out into our oxygen masks, while our arm and leg muscles started to jelly out from our efforts.

- oldman
Title: Re: National Archives
Post by: Blooz on February 15, 2014, 02:30:21 PM
@Blooz, sorry but that isn't true either. I can show you tons of videos of many long-term users in AH that do the 'ger-flopen thing.' Even some of the top F4U pilots do it now.

That's not my point. My point is why, in real life, the targets in gun cam film don't aggressively maneuver. My answer is "they didn't know they were in trouble or if they did know, were not prepared to take action."

We, here in cartoon combat land, get to learn, over and over, from our mistakes. In real life, you rarely get to make more than one mistake.
Title: Re: National Archives
Post by: Chalenge on February 15, 2014, 02:59:32 PM
I see. Well, I still disagree. There is nothing more aggressive than a desperate, young, and scared kid. You can read many accounts of kids straining their planes to the fullest to avoid gun fire, so I think the Luftwaffe would be no different. We have video of 190s in extended turn battles with Jugs and 51s, and yet not one video of a 'ger-flopen thing,' so it has to a physical limitation that does not exist in Aces High. Spatial disorientation would be a fairly big problem to be avoided.
Title: Re: National Archives
Post by: Megalodon on February 17, 2014, 10:30:36 AM
'ger-flopen thing,'
:lol


Any 1 notice at about 3:18 2nd Lt. W.A.McClure 56thFG attacking FW-290?

Robert Johnson's book "Thunderbolt" he claims this and most just say he wrote the book 15 years after the war....he forgot or was mistaken.

Robert Johnson's wing man 1st Lt. Joe Powers also talks about shooting a in FW with an inline engine.... is this what Johnson, Powers and McClure called the "New" FW?

The 2 reports
(http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/p-47/er/56-johnson-30jan44.jpg)
(http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/p-47/er/56-powers-30jan44.jpg)

Hmmm,

 :cheers:
Title: Re: National Archives
Post by: mthrockmor on February 17, 2014, 11:01:35 AM
I am unable to get it to work. Says I need a "plug-in." Any suggestions?
Title: Re: National Archives
Post by: GScholz on February 17, 2014, 11:15:32 AM
What is wrong with the 190's in the gun cam footage?
They are not jerking about all over the place when some one got on there 6?

No they couldn't get gun cam footage of those...  :aok
Title: Re: National Archives
Post by: GScholz on February 17, 2014, 11:34:59 AM
As a side note: A very good, perhaps the best, documentary on the 190.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nf1uvnTRkB0
Title: Re: National Archives
Post by: wpeters on February 17, 2014, 01:13:33 PM
Wow 834 rounds of AP& I (Incendiary) For the first two.


The other one was 567 AP& I ..


Sound like poor gunnery. What I find Interesting was they thought 200yds was to far
Title: Re: National Archives
Post by: mbailey on February 17, 2014, 01:44:58 PM
I'd wager you would get yourself killed before you ever saw an enemy.

 

Id wager that id get killed rolling across the tarmac to get to my runway i was cleared to take off from. If I was lucky enough to get to that destination.....guarenteed my body and plane would be splattered all over the countryside, which is the usual result in game as well  :headscratch:     

 
Title: Re: National Archives
Post by: jeffdn on February 18, 2014, 12:27:36 PM
Wow 834 rounds of AP& I (Incendiary) For the first two.


The other one was 567 AP& I ..


Sound like poor gunnery. What I find Interesting was they thought 200yds was to far

That's 7 seconds firing time for the first one, and 5 seconds for the latter at approximately 107 rounds per second coming out of 8x .50 AN/M2 Browning HMG.
Title: Re: National Archives
Post by: Lucifer on February 19, 2014, 06:52:08 PM
Thats reminds me of a Pierre Clostermann interview : he said German pilots were deep into a chevalry spirit, when some Allies strafed downed pilots...

War... :uhoh
Title: Re: National Archives
Post by: Lucifer on February 21, 2014, 03:38:54 AM
In 1945, german pilots only survived 10h combat flights for 95% of them.

They are mostly "two weekers". Half trained kids, just trying to fly the plane, let alone fight.

Jump on a two weekers six in game and you'll get the same result...an easy kill for the same reason.

Most of us here have been flying cartoon planes for twice as long as the war really lasted. When we make a mistake, we don't die for real, so e get to learn from it. Over and over. For years and years.
Title: Re: National Archives
Post by: MiloMorai on February 22, 2014, 12:03:36 AM
What the gun camera footage doesn't show is the maneuvering that took place before 'shoot down'.
Title: Re: National Archives
Post by: GScholz on February 22, 2014, 05:26:35 AM
Thats reminds me of a Pierre Clostermann interview : he said German pilots were deep into a chevalry spirit, when some Allies strafed downed pilots...

War... :uhoh



Dornier Do 24

(http://luftarchiv.de/flugzeuge/dornier/do24n.jpg)


This aircraft is the root cause of the "chute-shooting" between the Axis and Allies in Europe. Despite the fact that Britain is an island nation it was the Germans who had the best SAR system. The Luftwaffe had specialized squadrons of these SAR aircraft for locating and rescuing pilots at sea during the Battle of Britain. The RAF only had rescue launches, and grew weary of having their airmen die in the Channel while the Germans got rescued; despite being painted bright white with red crosses, the RAF started shooting down the German SAR planes. In retaliation the Luftwaffe started strafing British rescue launches and pilots in the sea or in their inflatable dinghies, and it only escalated from there.