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General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Waffle on February 21, 2014, 04:15:00 PM

Title: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: Waffle on February 21, 2014, 04:15:00 PM
With the new terrain in development, we're also kicking around ideas for airfeild layouts, ect....

I've attached a rough layout of a 4 mile by 4 mile "base" area. This one contains a large airfeild, vehicle complex, surrounding town, and possible supply depot.

Legend:
Dark green is forest / woods
Red lines are hedge / property lines
brown lines - dirt roads
Blue/White circles - town buildings
Yellow dots - supply depot?

Everything else is pretty much labelled.

The basic premise of going this way is to create a detailed centralized game area where most of the fighting takes place, which is normally within one to two miles of a base /town. We anticipate having a higher resolution elevations in these areas which will lend to more gentle hills /slopes and be very conducive for vehicle fights. Also it will allow us to alleviate some of the issues with taking off in heavy bombers, in which there will be longer runways, and clear paths for climb out.

Also, We would have different layouts for each type of base. So there would be more variance in towns/facility layouts, as well as strategies for base capture. Also, we just think that it looks more natural that a square mile airfield, with a square mile town next to it.

I just wanted to post this to you guys and get some feedback about it. It's still in very early planning stages, so the sky's not falling yet. :)
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: Bear76 on February 21, 2014, 04:17:57 PM
With the new terrain in development, we're also kicking around ideas for airfeild layouts, ect....

I've attached a rough layout of a 4 mile by 4 mile "base" area. This one contains a large airfeild, vehicle complex, surrounding town, and possible supply depot.

Legend:
Dark green is forest / woods
Red lines are hedge / property lines
brown lines - dirt roads
Blue/White circles - town buildings
Yellow dots - supply depot?

Everything else is pretty much labelled.

The basic premise of going this way is to create a detailed centralized game area where most of the fighting takes place, which is normally within one to two miles of a base /town. We anticipate having a higher resolution elevations in these areas which will lend to more gentle hills /slopes and be very conducive for vehicle fights. Also it will allow us to alleviate some of the issues with taking off in heavy bombers, in which there will be longer runways, and clear paths for climb out.

Also, We would have different layouts for each type of base. So there would be more variance in towns/facility layouts, as well as strategies for base capture. Also, we just think that it looks more natural that a square mile airfield, with a square mile town next to it.

I just wanted to post this to you guys and get some feedback about it. It's still in very early planning stages, so the sky's not falling yet. :)

2 weeks?
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: Latrobe on February 21, 2014, 04:21:27 PM
2 weeks?

I can't wait that long. I want this NOW!!!  :O :O :x :x :x :x :x
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: ink on February 21, 2014, 04:22:18 PM
awesome....not that I care about the base layout or anything....(I pay no attention to the war)

I like the idea of a better graphics...different field layouts sounds great... :rock

I am excited about the new terrain update.... :x :x


think the fire and smoke will be updated? (I am guessing it will be)

or is that an Easter egg??
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: Bear76 on February 21, 2014, 04:22:59 PM
I can't wait that long. I want this NOW!!!  :O :O :x :x :x :x :x

I was referring to the sky falling  :lol
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: hlbly on February 21, 2014, 04:23:07 PM
Waffle i have only one suggestion . On one of the airfields . Have a layout that can be used like an obstacle course for planes. Rows of taller structures to fly between with open hangers to fly through. It would be nice to have a place where a person could work on precise control of their plane.
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: craz07 on February 21, 2014, 04:24:30 PM
That looks great.. looks like a complete clusterfart to bomb and capture..  realistic i say...   Hopefully the villages are closer to small towns..  P.S. Yellow dots as a supply depot, possibly some manufacturing would be cool..
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: 999000 on February 21, 2014, 04:26:53 PM
PBY??????????
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: Latrobe on February 21, 2014, 04:27:15 PM
I was referring to the sky falling  :lol

I want that too!!  :x
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: DmonSlyr on February 21, 2014, 04:38:42 PM
That looks neat! And yes more realistic with towns spread out and such. I was flying over one of the big cities (c) on the map and thought wow, I wish more of the map had large towns and cities like these, would definitely add more character, like u were flying over Brittan or something.

Also I'm just curious. Are there gonna be any changes to the water structure : splashes, sinking when on water, splashes when bullets hit, ect?
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: BluBerry on February 21, 2014, 04:44:44 PM
Waffle,

Having the town surround the airfield in different places is pretty damn cool. Great idea. Looking forward to seeing what you guys come up with.  :rock

It would be cool to have the radar tower on top of one of the hills on the outskirts of town, since they would have been at higher positions for signal and it would make it fun to try to find where it is at each field vs the cookie cutter version in use now. Maybe a small dirt road leading to the radar tower for GV's to use, in case a wirble wanted to get up there and guard it.

Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: lerxst on February 21, 2014, 04:46:05 PM
Now that's an airfield to have fun with,super job laying that out sir<<S>> :rock
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: seano on February 21, 2014, 04:46:27 PM
im sure whatever you are working will be just fine. maybe check out some overhead pictures of some raf bomber bases from ww2 and also some forward frontline bases from Africa and even some small forward air bases from france etc etc.

    also, when the new update comes out, if you can make it to the perimeter of the airfield, you should get credit for landing a flight. its lame to have to belly land instead of trying to land on 1 wheel to keep it on "concrete".
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: Nathan60 on February 21, 2014, 04:48:32 PM
Waffle i have only one suggestion . On one of the airfields . Have a layout that can be used like an obstacle course for planes. Rows of taller structures to fly between with open hangers to fly through. It would be nice to have a place where a person could work on precise control of their plane.
Maybe a portside industrial complex would work too, cranes, factory smokestacks open sided warehouses to fly through...
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: bacon8tr on February 21, 2014, 04:48:36 PM
Excellent  :aok
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: toddbobe on February 21, 2014, 04:53:48 PM
Would it be possible to have a large city for tank battles?... would it be too much to somehow indicate a front line in this city... perhaps an airfield in this city as an objective?
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: Dragon on February 21, 2014, 04:54:34 PM
Reload pads?  I'm sure they are there somewhere.  Looks fantastic though!
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: Chilli on February 21, 2014, 04:54:54 PM
 :aok  Sweet!  

Only suggestion:  remove all of those stumps that flip my tanks, I won't have any perks to blow, when I get back online to enjoy this.

 :salute  Thanks for the peek  :O
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: tmetal on February 21, 2014, 04:55:40 PM
New airbase layouts would be spectacular! :x

Quick question though; with the possible addition of supply depots, could it also be possible to add something like repair depots/sheds that are tied into the rearm pads?

the idea being that as repair depots are destroyed on the airbase the rearm time goes up by 15 seconds and if all repair depots are destroyed the rearm time hits a max number but doesn't shut down completely.
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: kvuo75 on February 21, 2014, 04:55:58 PM
I think the town / maproom should be much further from the base.
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: lunatic1 on February 21, 2014, 04:58:06 PM
Waffle i have only one suggestion . On one of the airfields . Have a layout that can be used like an obstacle course for planes. Rows of taller structures to fly between with open hangers to fly through. It would be nice to have a place where a person could work on precise control of their plane.
you already fly thru the fighter and bomber hangers :joystick:
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: lunatic1 on February 21, 2014, 05:03:00 PM
have a sheep farm or 2
 :bolt:
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: MrKrabs on February 21, 2014, 05:05:01 PM
The more natural layouts are exceptional...

Even if it takes another year I'll still be super excited about upcoming changes!
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: Randy1 on February 21, 2014, 05:09:30 PM
Really interesting and very exciting.  

I think a few thoughts from our current map system with just a touch of the new layout implied may be more productive than questioning an early concept.

1. Small bases currently are well within a common pickup mission.  A pickup mission has about a 30% chance to capture a medium base and say 10% large.  Too hard to capture might be detrimental to pickup missions.

2. Consider less emphasis on building destruction and more on equipment destruction like a row of fighters and bombers to destroy.

3. Consider factories like a 262 factory.

4. More trains and maybe a train switching yard.
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: craz07 on February 21, 2014, 05:14:06 PM
Now now randy.. We're still working on getting the trains out of the sky and back on land.. that may be asking a bit much..
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: Volron on February 21, 2014, 05:14:39 PM
"One" rises to the sight of this... :joystick: :D

What I hope is that there will be fields according to time line.  EW fields were lightly defended, having mostly rifle caliber guns for defense.  As the war progressed, field guns were gradually upgraded to counter the attacks that took place.  I am also hoping that ships are adjusted accordingly.  When the war began, they were mostly geared for ship-to-ship combat and had light AA defense.  Now, if you can have it set to where that base will have a random orientation upon each map reset, we'd have an ever changing layout that will help counter the staleness of targets. :)


Will the long field be able to allow for a set B-29's with 100% fuel, 2x Ammo and 40 500 lber's to take off under auto-take off completely?  Or will I still need to have input? :headscratch:


My suggestions:

Upon looking at the layout of the base, the 3 17lb guns by the VH's (NW side), I would move the right one to a spot next to the Left most fuel tank on the West middle side.  There isn't any AT defense covering that area.

The placement of hulldown (the little dug out spots that I forgot the name too that surround a V-base...:o) spots around the base would be nice.  2-4 around the V-base portion, 1-2 on NE side, 4+ in and around town and 2+ for West side.

For the Supply Depot, I would move it to either South East of the base, just South East of the town in that cul-de-sac area that has property lines going through it, or to the East side of the base.  There are those two cul-de-sac type spots inside the forest, on that side would be perfect for a supply depot setup.  Adding 1-2 AAA and a hulldown spot or two accordingly would aid in it's defense.



Now I wonder what the other base types will look like... :headscratch: :x
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: Saxman on February 21, 2014, 05:37:31 PM
I'm sure I'm not the only one who will say:

Grass/dirt/coral/marston mat strips!

For that matter, some variance in airfield for different terrain types (PTO vs Europe, etc) would be greatly welcome.
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: steely07 on February 21, 2014, 05:49:09 PM
Looks fantastic, can't wait to see it when it's ready!
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: Arlo on February 21, 2014, 05:52:09 PM
With the new terrain in development, we're also kicking around ideas for airfeild layouts, ect....

I've attached a rough layout of a 4 mile by 4 mile "base" area. This one contains a large airfeild, vehicle complex, surrounding town, and possible supply depot.

Legend:
Dark green is forest / woods
Red lines are hedge / property lines
brown lines - dirt roads
Blue/White circles - town buildings
Yellow dots - supply depot?

Everything else is pretty much labelled.

The basic premise of going this way is to create a detailed centralized game area where most of the fighting takes place, which is normally within one to two miles of a base /town. We anticipate having a higher resolution elevations in these areas which will lend to more gentle hills /slopes and be very conducive for vehicle fights. Also it will allow us to alleviate some of the issues with taking off in heavy bombers, in which there will be longer runways, and clear paths for climb out.

Also, We would have different layouts for each type of base. So there would be more variance in towns/facility layouts, as well as strategies for base capture. Also, we just think that it looks more natural that a square mile airfield, with a square mile town next to it.

I just wanted to post this to you guys and get some feedback about it. It's still in very early planning stages, so the sky's not falling yet. :)

 :salute :cheers:
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: Arlo on February 21, 2014, 05:55:44 PM
I'm sure I'm not the only one who will say:

Grass/dirt/coral/marston mat strips!

For that matter, some variance in airfield for different terrain types (PTO vs Europe, etc) would be greatly welcome.

 :salute :cheers: :cheers:
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: The Fugitive on February 21, 2014, 06:05:48 PM
While I love what your doing here I worry about one thing I can see. With the airfield being in the middle of everything, I worry that it will automatically bring people to drop the hangers right away. With separation bases can be taken with out dropping the FH. A few guys capping the field can keep them occupied while other work the town. With everything in tight....well 4 miles isn't really tight, it might make players go for the hangers first.

I do like that some of the areas are not covered by guns which should bring in more GVs even if it's just to milk a few buildings for the score card.

Keep up the great work guys! <S>
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: Easyscor on February 21, 2014, 06:23:45 PM
It's hard to say from the jpg alone so I may be in left field.

Now, if GVs can cross through them, then never mind, but I think there should be breaks in the red hedge rows to allow GVs more opportunity to flank each other. I worry about a wall of hedges being more then an eighth to a quarter mile long.

The second thing is a new type of military building instead of town buildings. Or maybe making some of the existing shapes fill the roll. I hate destroying town buildings for captures and wish a military designation was available instead. Command posts, and hotels for troops along with the current barracks all set as "Army" type or "Military" type objects for the base capture.

I'm looking forward to the beta! Hint! Hint!

 :D
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: Arlo on February 21, 2014, 06:28:41 PM
Brothels!

Feb. 26 - Chatte Flambee

The Jolly Rogers kept at it for a few more days: escorts, strafing missions, and the like. Becoming bored, they dusted off an earlier idea of Blackburn's. Back in November, they had rigged up some crude bomb racks for the Corsairs. With the help of professionals from Fighter Command, they rigged up better racks. In great secret, Blackburn organized a fighter-bomber raid on a target on the outskirts of Rabaul. The target was a particular frame building; their objective was to drop their bombs around the building, not on it. Only after they returned did Blackburn share the target's identity with them; it was the Rabaul officers' brothel.
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: bustr on February 21, 2014, 06:36:23 PM
This layout looks like it will be a cluster luge to capture unless you show up with a full force strategic bomber mission. Even worse than the current large airfield.

Waffle how much is the game about to be changed?

The structure of this presentation shows a change in our game process will come in hand with the new terrain engine. Are you asking simple questions specifically towards what players think of this new evolution of the "Large Arifeild"? Or are you seeing how players overall will respond to this much change? Just like Greebo wasn't expecting his new map to turn into "Zombie Tank Wars" as an unintended consequence after he put his years of experience into making it into a premier air combat map.

May we see the rough drafts of the other field object and mechanics changes so we can have more context to our informed opinions? In the past, base and object changes were simply dropped on us and we adapted to them whining and screeching the whole way. Why the sudden concern? The history of this game shows pretty much change for the sake of change will make us happy until the next change makes us happy again.
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: 68Raptor on February 21, 2014, 07:11:12 PM
Looking great!!  :rock :aok :cheers: :x

Quick question was it common or is it common to put troop barracks a few feet from Ammo dumps? Thought just occurred to me about being able to deploy a portable radar trailer.. perked if needed from a massive airfield complex such as this.
 
Not sure if the "hedgerows" as barriers to multi ton tanks should be a barrier to anything other then eyesight. Since things are still in the development can the hedge row shapes be changed to some sort of steel barrier to stop tanks?

Layout wise it looks like a tough job to take down with bombers but I'm sure guys will get it figured out in no time.
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: ozrocker on February 21, 2014, 07:22:20 PM
I would still like to see a manable gun or two in town as well :aok

Guns near depots?



                                                                                                                                :cheers: Oz




Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: Dragon Tamer on February 21, 2014, 07:24:36 PM
Some variation will be a nice change, the layout also makes it look like it will take more coordination to capture a base. This might not be a good thing since as far as I can tell, the only country with any kind of coordination for base taking is the bish.
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: Tinkles on February 21, 2014, 07:48:17 PM
With the new terrain in development, we're also kicking around ideas for airfeild layouts, ect....

I've attached a rough layout of a 4 mile by 4 mile "base" area. This one contains a large airfeild, vehicle complex, surrounding town, and possible supply depot.

Legend:
Dark green is forest / woods
Red lines are hedge / property lines
brown lines - dirt roads
Blue/White circles - town buildings
Yellow dots - supply depot?

Everything else is pretty much labelled.

The basic premise of going this way is to create a detailed centralized game area where most of the fighting takes place, which is normally within one to two miles of a base /town. We anticipate having a higher resolution elevations in these areas which will lend to more gentle hills /slopes and be very conducive for vehicle fights. Also it will allow us to alleviate some of the issues with taking off in heavy bombers, in which there will be longer runways, and clear paths for climb out.

Also, We would have different layouts for each type of base. So there would be more variance in towns/facility layouts, as well as strategies for base capture. Also, we just think that it looks more natural that a square mile airfield, with a square mile town next to it.

I just wanted to post this to you guys and get some feedback about it. It's still in very early planning stages, so the sky's not falling yet. :)

Ohhh boy. Can't wait to see all this take place..

I really want my new computer now.   :devil

Thanks for the update  :aok
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: Fish42 on February 21, 2014, 07:54:26 PM

The basic premise of going this way is to create a detailed centralized game area where most of the fighting takes place, which is normally within one to two miles of a base /town. We anticipate having a higher resolution elevations in these areas which will lend to more gentle hills /slopes and be very conducive for vehicle fights. Also it will allow us to alleviate some of the issues with taking off in heavy bombers, in which there will be longer runways, and clear paths for climb out.

Could a few of these higher resolution areas be made into a 8x8 mile tank town? Just 4 zones that would contain rolling hills, cliffs, ditches and gullies with a few Buildings?



Also For some of the small airfields, can it be a grass runway that runs down one side of the area, a few/minimal defense and a town clustered to the other side of the zone. This will look like an airfield quickly set up near a small town.

Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: caldera on February 21, 2014, 08:53:54 PM
Hate to say it but all else being equal, it looks like bigger hordes will be needed to take that base. 

Once last time, I will make a futile and useless plea to take the fight away from the base.  I think the towns should be far away from the fields (halfway to the dar circle) and undefended, with GV spawns from multiple fields near each town.  Meanwhile, increase ack guns and their lethality on airfields to curtail vulching.  Having the towns ack-free and away from the base would encourage more attacks and especially smaller ones would have a chance.  Likewise, being able to get airborne without vulchers would give even a small defense a chance. 

The attackers claim the defenders are hiding in the ack and the defenders claim the attackers don't let them leave the ack.  With the fights in a more neutral location, there will be no need for either.  As cool as the new layout looks, I foresee more steamrolling than ever.  If that's actually possible.  :uhoh


Whatever is done, I request for more than one radar tower.  It is ridiculously easy to take out and virtually impossible to defend against a determined, suicide porker.  A four mile field should have four towers.
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: TOMCAT21 on February 21, 2014, 09:12:38 PM
well done..
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: Lazerr on February 21, 2014, 09:31:51 PM
Just my opinion, but is spreading the town out like that a good idea?  Would you change the percentage of town being down in order for capture?  Will having guys with lower end PC's not being able to crank up ground detail and detail range hinder them seeing all of these small details on a field? Frustrate them?

I rarely take bases, but I want to keep the food chain around the game so I have something to shoot at.

Again, looking at all possible aspects of the game.  I'm sure there will be much more feedback to come in this thread.

Would a MOTD in the MA directing the entire player base to come check this out for more opinions be worth it?  A lot of the land grabbing types I see in the game i rarely or never see on these boards.

The population of the game seems fragile right now, and I would hate to see something that doesn't appeal to the majority of the game, which at this point is land grabbing and GV'ing.  Being a furballing type I could care less as long as you keep the game populated.  :aok :cheers:

Randoms thoughts, not enough time to type the rest out.  <S>
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: Lazerr on February 21, 2014, 09:33:16 PM
Hate to say it but all else being equal, it looks like bigger hordes will be needed to take that base. 

Once last time, I will make a futile and useless plea to take the fight away from the base.  I think the towns should be far away from the fields (halfway to the dar circle) and undefended, with GV spawns from multiple fields near each town.  Meanwhile, increase ack guns and their lethality on airfields to curtail vulching.  Having the towns ack-free and away from the base would encourage more attacks and especially smaller ones would have a chance.  Likewise, being able to get airborne without vulchers would give even a small defense a chance. 

The attackers claim the defenders are hiding in the ack and the defenders claim the attackers don't let them leave the ack.  With the fights in a more neutral location, there will be no need for either.  As cool as the new layout looks, I foresee more steamrolling than ever.  If that's actually possible.  :uhoh


Whatever is done, I request for more than one radar tower.  It is ridiculously easy to take out and virtually impossible to defend against a determined, suicide porker.  A four mile field should have four towers.

I think your thoughts on this are what i am fearing, see above.
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: Easyscor on February 21, 2014, 11:28:46 PM
When I build a terrain, I'm particularly mindful of drive distance from the spawn to the maproom and over what kind of environment I'll need to travel.

Even if those Spawn points are shown for illustration only, and lordy I hope they are, they demonstrate a sever handicap for any spawn beyond the northern border of Grafton Underwood airfield as compared to the center south spawn. (hehe, you must have known someone would recognize it, right?)

I would be inclined to stay with the separate maproom tile and install non-destructable villages and towns around the airfield. Every time I try to think of another way to balance it, I end up with multiple towns and maprooms with a capture requiring two or three of five maprooms. I can already feel the guys in the other room rolling their eyes right now.  :uhoh
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: Windycty on February 21, 2014, 11:32:42 PM
I think it looks pretty good so far.  How about some water features like rivers with bridges?  Any ideas for the Port layouts?
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: Tinkles on February 22, 2014, 01:29:07 AM
Just my opinion, but is spreading the town out like that a good idea?  Would you change the percentage of town being down in order for capture?  Will having guys with lower end PC's not being able to crank up ground detail and detail range hinder them seeing all of these small details on a field? Frustrate them?

I rarely take bases, but I want to keep the food chain around the game so I have something to shoot at.

Again, looking at all possible aspects of the game.  I'm sure there will be much more feedback to come in this thread.

Would a MOTD in the MA directing the entire player base to come check this out for more opinions be worth it?  A lot of the land grabbing types I see in the game i rarely or never see on these boards.

The population of the game seems fragile right now, and I would hate to see something that doesn't appeal to the majority of the game, which at this point is land grabbing and GV'ing.  Being a furballing type I could care less as long as you keep the game populated.  :aok :cheers:

Randoms thoughts, not enough time to type the rest out.  <S>

I have a computer that barely meets the minimum requirements for Aces High (hoping to change that soon). Anyways, graphics wise it wouldn't hinder any lower-end systems unless a horde was there (20+). If I understood HTC correctly the way the terrain and environment is processed/loaded will be smoother for all systems and easier for the lower-end systems to handle.

I don't think it is safe to jump to conclusions yet on whether or not this will be the same ole same ole (hoards etc) to get base capturing done. I do like the change of the layout, instead of everything being clumped up into one town, it's more branched out, and in my opinion, looks more realistic.

I think that having everything spread out makes it so players have to be more precise in their attacks, instead of just 'drop in this general direction and hit something' that you can currently do with the current town setup.

I agree with Caldera's last sentence of 4 radar towers. Each tower down would take a percentage of the ring 'down' or cripple it on a side. (So if you have one tower at each corner, and the Southern Tower is taken out, then the radar circle is shortened on the Southern side by a percentage).
Then when all 4 are taken out, no radar for X amount of time.

My suggestions on the yellow dots (top left corner) either addition fuel depots, or perhaps a railyard (or construction on half-finished tanks), like we have at ports right now, with the cv's "getting repairs".  Not so much essential for base capture, but something unique to bomb, or if you want put a value on it with a slight downtime increase to something on the base *shrug*.

I really like this new layout, all the mannable guns are spread out in STRATEGIC POSITIONS, and actually look like they can be used in an effective manner. Town buildings are no longer clumped together for easy white flags, and the spawns are very nicely placed. Not too far, yet not right on base, and the guns placed in positions that give the chance of defense without being overpowering.

Very nice job guys, I am really looking forward to this  :aok
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: Chilli on February 22, 2014, 03:05:00 AM
Some variation will be a nice change, the layout also makes it look like it will take more coordination to capture a base. This might not be a good thing since as far as I can tell, the only country with any kind of coordination for base taking is the bish.

Here is the RUB.....

Changes in the game system (I am wildly excited about), but will they take into the account for the most part there is no General for either country?  Let me decode that last question.  If base capture becomes so ramped up that only large missions or "hordes" will enjoy success, then you most likely will see a lot of lopsided maps, folks logging off because of too few choices to spawn, and worst of all more battles fought on the BBS than on these beautifully constructed enhanced battlefields. :(

Suggestion:  Brand new concept, abandon the turf war all together.  Make it a war of attrition = Successful attacks on bases, certain buildings, or targets reduce the morale, resources, communication, resupply lines or some other strategical explanation for the win the war goal.  This way each country gets to keep all of their fields.  At some point a bomber or jabo run to the two opposing HQs or any of a number of scenarios that would involve more than just a handful of players to seal the deal and ideally promote Air Combat.
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: Arlo on February 22, 2014, 04:28:19 AM
Here is the RUB.....

Changes in the game system (I am wildly excited about), but will they take into the account for the most part there is no General for either country?  Let me decode that last question.  If base capture becomes so ramped up that only large missions or "hordes" will enjoy success, then you most likely will see a lot of lopsided maps, folks logging off because of too few choices to spawn, and worst of all more battles fought on the BBS than on these beautifully constructed enhanced battlefields. :(

Suggestion:  Brand new concept, abandon the turf war all together.  Make it a war of attrition = Successful attacks on bases, certain buildings, or targets reduce the morale, resources, communication, resupply lines or some other strategical explanation for the win the war goal.  This way each country gets to keep all of their fields.  At some point a bomber or jabo run to the two opposing HQs or any of a number of scenarios that would involve more than just a handful of players to seal the deal and ideally promote Air Combat.

(http://www.radschool.org.au/magazines/Vol44/images/Very%20interesting.jpg)
~~~~~~~~~~~Velly intervestink!~~~~~~~~~~~
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: Max on February 22, 2014, 06:51:40 AM
I hope the new bases will be placed on NEW MAPS  :aok :aok :aok
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: Iraqvet on February 22, 2014, 07:35:02 AM
It looks great. Keep up the good work. I like that it will bring a new fighting dynamic to the game as far as the lay out of the fields go. From the Gv approach to attacking filed right down to how town will have to be taken down now. You will still will always have the people who complain that its going to encourage the opposition to drop all the Fh's, BH's and VH....well yeah most missions do that. What I like is the fact that it looks like it will be more challenging to get a white flag, as the town is more spread out that it was before. Town as it is now basically needs two good salvos at both intersections of town and its white flagged. New layout will not make it that easy anymore.
Keep up the good work and press on  :salute :aok
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: Waffle on February 22, 2014, 08:14:21 AM
Good Morning,

Again, just waxing out loud here - kicking out ideas, nothing set in stone.

In my head, the property lines / hedge rows would be more like sparse tree/shrub lines. Not like the current impassable hedges we have in the town now.

In regards to the spawns being not equal in distance to the map-room, I think that's really a moot issue, as currently it's the same way in game. You can spawn into a base from one way and be right on top of town, and some you have to drive over and across the airfield to get to town. It all depends on the luck of the draw on your countries spawn into a base when you're attacking a certain field.

As far as how hard it is to capture a base, we do have variables for the amount of town that has to be down in order to capture, which can be adjusted.
 
One idea was to have less town buildings for the medium / small /vehicle bases. Currently there is around 100 buildings in the town, which is what I was planning on for the large airfield. So maybe have 75 for the medium field, 50 for the small field, and 35-40 for the vehicle base. That would set up hierarchy of difficulty on capturing fields, which is something I'm not sure we would want to do.

We're still in discussion on how to do the road / rail system, So I really have no clue how that's going to turnout. The supply depot on the drawing was an idea on where to have the supply convoys terminate.

I'll tag this one as wishlist:

     One thing I would like to see done in regards to base supply would be to have a large rail yard / distribution center for a zone of bases. Trains would leave the city for the distribution centers, then convoys would truck supplies from the distribution centers to the airfields.  Destroying / damaging the Distribution center would slow down the resupply to the bases it supplies. If you kill a destroy a train heading to a distribution center, you would hinder the supply time for all of the bases that are supplied by that distribution center, as well as the rebuild time of the distribution center. Destroy a convoy and you hinder the supply to the field it was traveling to. This would make distribution centers and trains regional targets that need to be protected. I would also like to see dots for trains / convoys on the clipboard map when you have them enabled. Or maybe once a friendly gets within a certain range of train/convoy, it would show up as a dot for a period of time.

Another thought I had, is for base capture. if all auto ack / manned guns would have to be down, or just town guns. For this layout, I'm leaning towards town building only having to be down for capture. If you can get a goon or m3 in, and you or your troops don't die in the crossfire, you sir, deserve a medal. We'll have to discuss that one.

Like I said before, just kicking out ideas - nothing set in stone.

Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: Changeup on February 22, 2014, 08:38:11 AM
That looks awesome.
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: Bino on February 22, 2014, 08:59:25 AM
Very nice, Waffle!  Thanks for the preview!   :salute

Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: wpeters on February 22, 2014, 09:22:28 AM
Good Morning,

Again, just waxing out loud here - kicking out ideas, nothing set in stone.

In my head, the property lines / hedge rows would be more like sparse tree/shrub lines. Not like the current impassable hedges we have in the town now.

In regards to the spawns being not equal in distance to the map-room, I think that's really a moot issue, as currently it's the same way in game. You can spawn into a base from one way and be right on top of town, and some you have to drive over and across the airfield to get to town. It all depends on the luck of the draw on your countries spawn into a base when you're attacking a certain field.

As far as how hard it is to capture a base, we do have variables for the amount of town that has to be down in order to capture, which can be adjusted.
 
One idea was to have less town buildings for the medium / small /vehicle bases. Currently there is around 100 buildings in the town, which is what I was planning on for the large airfield. So maybe have 75 for the medium field, 50 for the small field, and 35-40 for the vehicle base. That would set up hierarchy of difficulty on capturing fields, which is something I'm not sure we would want to do.

We're still in discussion on how to do the road / rail system, So I really have no clue how that's going to turnout. The supply depot on the drawing was an idea on where to have the supply convoys terminate.

I'll tag this one as wishlist:

     One thing I would like to see done in regards to base supply would be to have a large rail yard / distribution center for a zone of bases. Trains would leave the city for the distribution centers, then convoys would truck supplies from the distribution centers to the airfields.  Destroying / damaging the Distribution center would slow down the resupply to the bases it supplies. If you kill a destroy a train heading to a distribution center, you would hinder the supply time for all of the bases that are supplied by that distribution center, as well as the rebuild time of the distribution center. Destroy a convoy and you hinder the supply to the field it was traveling to. This would make distribution centers and trains regional targets that need to be protected. I would also like to see dots for trains / convoys on the clipboard map when you have them enabled. Or maybe once a friendly gets within a certain range of train/convoy, it would show up as a dot for a period of time.

Another thought I had, is for base capture. if all auto ack / manned guns would have to be down, or just town guns. For this layout, I'm leaning towards town building only having to be down for capture. If you can get a goon or m3 in, and you or your troops don't die in the crossfire, you sir, deserve a medal. We'll have to discuss that one.

Like I said before, just kicking out ideas - nothing set in stone.



+1


The one thing I worry about is the town. I think it needs to be further away from town.  I know on the maps were town is adjacent to the airfield, it takes a lot more people to take which is not a bad unless people call horde.  Second reason I think for this is the fact that historically it would be idiotic to build a military base right on the edge of town for security reasons. The reason that a air base has a fence and guard post around it is for the fact of security and to prevent sabotage.   Any way who wants the bloody civilians to walk out of there home on to the taxi way


Other than the historical reasons it looks great.  And remember I will stay no matter what happens to the town. Just my thoughts that we could have something more historical..

By the way I love the train idea. :salute


Keep up the good work.



P.s  Could we have a flag that will actually wave instead of looking like it is on the moon.
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: Sunka on February 22, 2014, 09:37:51 AM
I love the Air field and town incorporated together.
It will add a new element to what we see now (horde comes in, destroys town as fast as they can ,Don't touch the air field ,take base)

Love all the new ideas Waffle, looks great keep it coming.
 :rock
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: FLOOB on February 22, 2014, 09:52:52 AM
Name the bases after players.

Or name them after erotic cinema performers.
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: The Fugitive on February 22, 2014, 09:58:27 AM
I think moving the field away from the town while being a bit more realistic would help moving the fight away from the field, but is a 4 mile square big enough to do that?

(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii253/maddogjoe_photos/4x4milelargeairfeild-2_zpsb6061b91.jpg) (http://s266.photobucket.com/user/maddogjoe_photos/media/4x4milelargeairfeild-2_zpsb6061b91.jpg.html)

Would an 8 mile tile be better?

I also think 4 radar antennas would be better as well. HTC already has a system in place for losing "parts" of a commodity like ammo and fuel, adding radar to that system might not be too tough.
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: Zoney on February 22, 2014, 10:52:15 AM
Thanks for sharing Waffle.  i like a whole lot about this map.  I would also like to see bridges, that are destroyable along rail and truck routes.  Knock out the bridge, traffic backs up, slowing down resupply times and creating long lines of vehicles and trains ripe for the straifing from my beautiful 190A8.

Luftwaffe Uber Alles !
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: craz07 on February 22, 2014, 11:50:42 AM
Waffle how about turning the vbases into pretty much towns for all intents and purposes.. yes towns with lots of structures to demolish in order to make them surrendur and capture!! However, gv's and manned guns will be available to mobilize and defend the towns..  airfields in the vicinity will have to scramble and fly in to successfully defend bombers or strafers, what have you..
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: Lazerr on February 22, 2014, 11:54:49 AM
Thanks for sharing Waffle.  i like a whole lot about this map.  I would also like to see bridges, that are destroyable along rail and truck routes.  Knock out the bridge, traffic backs up, slowing down resupply times and creating long lines of vehicles and trains ripe for the straifing from my beautiful 190A8.

Luftwaffe Uber Alles !

I like Waffle's idea on the resupply structure.  I also like the idea of making it 3 dimensional and being able to destroy large bridges easily seen from 5-10k.
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: fbabob on February 22, 2014, 12:09:02 PM
I really like the layout, and very real looking. But one of my concerns, will it push away from the strategy of the game?  Only reason I bring this up, is some get easily fustrated and will give and just go to a furball instead trying to win the Map. ( a very real problem in Knight land) just my thoughts  great work Waffle <<S>>
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: Tilt on February 22, 2014, 12:12:25 PM
This seems to be a larger field...

First the stuff I like that will make this a more fun experience.....

The town clutter around the base is more realistic to what a base would look like it. The mix of forest and open approaches again much more realistic. The hiding of facilities within forest again more realistic. Soft hedgerow is a nice touch obscuring view but not access.

The increase in hangers is a plus. The increase in AA is a plus for players wishing to launch. I appauld the idea of unlinking capture from ggun health. If your troops are not killed then they count IMO.

I would encourage that vehicle fields also sit in small villages with town clutter

The concerns.

The biggest is the point that the town is now wrapped around an air base. I firmly believe that this will ramp up the tendancy to totally shut down a base prior to capture. Even though the hangers seem to have been increased. As long as the number of hangers is not proportional to the number of defenders then a base becomes uncapturable with only one hanger up or capturable when no one can access gameplay from the base( all hangers down. This is less fun for defenders who cannot launch and less fun for frustrated attackers who repeatedly cannot capture.

So whilst recognising the goals re the local terrain I do believe that towns should be removed a significant distance from airfields. Given this the vehicle spawn points should move with the town away from the airfield. Indeed now you have multiple vehicle hangers  some of these could also move with the town... as could barracks. The defenders should also have vehicle spawns into the towns from the defending field as well as access to town based 88's and 15lb'ers. No enemy gv's should spawn toward the defending air field only the defending town.

This then becomes the battle zone with access for all players who can enjoy the enhanced local terrain around the town whilst having access to the zone for both air and ground combat.

Capture of the town causes the airfield to be abandoned and within a few minutes it is claimed by the attacking side. (Much as a side capturing a port will take possession of a fleet after the cv is destroyed)

With town scapes coming complete with Gv hangers etc then I would use this as a gv facility. Ie gv fields are in fact towns or villages taken over for the purpose of acting as a hub for vehicle activity. Again historically correct... Cross roads were vigorously defended and such logistic junctions very often had towns or villages with them that provided local resources for troops an vehicles. Again even when limited to gv activity locally the terrain is enhanced for better gameplay.

Going beyond this into wish list territory.

Indeed you could go to the extreme of making every town a gv field and many such towns linked to " local" airfields like fleets are linked to ports.

Now every town is its own viable point of gv defence or origin of gv attack. Gv spawns are between towns and or ports ( like roads) never to airfields except when the two are linked as above.( one spawn from the associated town to its linked airfield)

Then all towns can be captured from air, land or sea. They are defacto vehicle fields. Ports would look very similar. With associated town buildings. Ports would be linked to Cv's as they are now, some towns are linked to local airfields which are abandoned as the town is lost then acquired 5 minutes later by the capturing side.
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: bozon on February 22, 2014, 12:18:53 PM
Please clear trees that grow near the ends of the runways.

Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: craz07 on February 22, 2014, 12:22:20 PM
^^^ Agree whole-heartedly with this stuff... Someone mentioned its like playing in a sandbox... I could not agree more with that idea...  Nice and simple... TOWNS with lots of structures to demolish (and capture) all around.. Airfields and Ports with air and sea forces to defend said towns.. simple.
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: Changeup on February 22, 2014, 12:59:21 PM

With town scapes coming complete with Gv hangers etc then I would use this as a gv facility. Ie gv fields are in fact towns or villages taken over for the purpose of acting as a hub for vehicle activity. Again historically correct... Cross roads were vigorously defended and such logistic junctions very often had towns or villages with them that provided local resources for troops an vehicles. Again even when limited to gv activity locally the terrain is enhanced for better gameplay.

Going beyond this into wish list territory.

Indeed you could go to the extreme of making every town a gv field and many such towns linked to " local" airfields like fleets are linked to ports.

Now every town is its own viable point of gv defence or origin of gv attack. Gv spawns are between towns and or ports ( like roads) never to airfields except when the two are linked as above.( one spawn from the associated town to its linked airfield)

Then all towns can be captured from air, land or sea. They are defacto vehicle fields. Ports would look very similar. With associated town buildings. Ports would be linked to Cv's as they are now, some towns are linked to local airfields which are abandoned as the town is lost then acquired 5 minutes later by the capturing side.


Add airdrops of troops,lol. 
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: Randy1 on February 22, 2014, 01:03:42 PM
Waffle what about a special, two country arena with one new field design and one just plain old field to minimize work.  It doesn't have to have the new graphics engine just test out field layouts.  When you sign in, you get assigned to the old field or new field.  No score.  Maybe let it run for an hour or two at different times of the day and week.
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: Chilli on February 22, 2014, 01:34:14 PM
Waffle you are definitely on to some really great ideas!   :rock  Please continue with what you are doing.  :aok  Wonderful thoughts on capture tweaks also

Good Morning,

Again, just waxing out loud here - kicking out ideas, nothing set in stone.

In my head, the property lines / hedge rows would be more like sparse tree/shrub lines. Not like the current impassable hedges we have in the town now.   :D

(snip)
As far as how hard it is to capture a base, we do have variables for the amount of town that has to be down in order to capture, which can be adjusted.    :cool:
 
One idea was to have less town buildings for the medium / small /vehicle bases. Currently there is around 100 buildings in the town, which is what I was planning on for the large airfield. So maybe have 75 for the medium field, 50 for the small field, and 35-40 for the vehicle base.  :D That would set up hierarchy of difficulty on capturing fields, which is something I'm not sure we would want to do.    :airplane:

(snip)
Another thought I had, is for base capture. if all auto ack / manned guns would have to be down, or just town guns. For this layout, I'm leaning towards town building only having to be down for capture. If you can get a goon or m3 in, and you or your troops don't die in the crossfire, you sir, deserve a medal. We'll have to discuss that one.   :rock



Or just update the fire and smoke to look like USRanger did below (screenshots from USRanger AvA Terrain)  :x

(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff56/2chilli_photos/fireondeck_zps68a7b91d.jpg)

(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff56/2chilli_photos/TooHot.jpg)

Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: Chilli on February 22, 2014, 01:42:27 PM

(http://i1346.photobucket.com/albums/p684/earl1937/Treeinatruck_zps36274e13.jpg)
First thing that came to my mind while looking at that pic: "TROOPS STILL WAITING @A4! Get the %&%$ town down!"  :furious

Leave it to Snailman and earl to find the picture worth a thousand suggestions.  Waffle do any of these things and you will be an AH gawd
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: Greebo on February 22, 2014, 02:37:13 PM
The new field layout looks great Waffle, I have a few suggestions:

WRT the eight spawn points around each field, I would like the ability for the map designer to assign say two or three of these spawns to each enemy field that has spawn routes into it. So hypothetically lets say field A17 can be reached via spawning from V28. The map designer could assign the NW, N and NE SPs to V28 and maybe the other SPs to other bases. Naturally no two bases could spawn to the same SP.

So in the game, when a player is about to spawn into A17 from V28 he would get a list of choices like this:

Spawn to the N of A17.
Spawn to the NE of A17.
Spawn to the NW of A17.

GV ambushes would then tend to be centred more on enemy GVs' objectives (i.e towns, VH etc.) than on the SPs as it would be easier for incoming enemies to avoid the camp by choosing a different SP.

Also I would like to see a non-offensive forward airbase added. A temporary tented airstrip with a PSP runway, a few AAs, fuel bunkers, tower, small town, map room, reload pad and a fighter and vehicle hangar. However no ordnance and no barracks. This would be a defensive field that could be used to protect say tank town, a port or a factory but that would not become a major threat to that facility if it were captured. One side benefit of no ordnance would be the increased usefulness of cannon armed anti-tank planes like the Il-2, Hurri IID and Ju-87G-2 to defend from GVs. It would need a different letter designation on the map, perhaps "F" (i.e. F25) for forward field so new players could be told why they couldn't select bombs or bombers there.

I'd also like to see a bridge base or double base. Maybe a couple of V bases in opposite corners of the square with a river running diagonally across the square and some bridges to act as choke points. Or failing that just a bridge object the map designer can place by hand across a river running between two closely spaced bases. This would need the current issue of coastlines and rivers disappearing when all the graphics options are turned down to be sorted out.

Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: 715 on February 22, 2014, 02:43:24 PM
...the northern border of Grafton Underwood airfield as compared to the center south spawn. (hehe, you must have known someone would recognize it, right?).

Wow.. you're right.  It's a dead ringer for Grafton Underwood even down to the little ancillary roadways.
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: Waffle on February 22, 2014, 04:55:22 PM
I wouldn't mind adding single airstrip, maybe tucked away in the woods somewhere, for the vehicle bases. They need one for the Fi 156, and if need be by the map maker, they could spawn the ju87g, il2, hurri2d tank killers. Maybe just have one or two ordnance bunkers near the airstrip. Plus it would make a good place for wounded birds to land if you can't reach a friendly main airfield.
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: craz07 on February 22, 2014, 05:05:52 PM
i'm thoroughly confused on what is good for the game.. the game is fun.. just work the magic you guys do and of course a litte graphics upgrade, thank you..  :angel:
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: Easyscor on February 22, 2014, 05:29:25 PM
FYI
Pierced Steel Plank (PSP) was used extensively in the Pacific where runways could be constructed within sight of beaches where the landing craft came ashore, not so much in the ETO because of transportation difficulties.

In Europe, Bitumen Impregnated Burlap (BIB - think asphalt impregnated) was used because it was much lighter and quicker to install. It came in rolls with the burlap and heavy wire mesh bound together. The burlap protected the compacted dirt runway from rain/water and held down the dust. The wire mesh held the burlap in place and provide some small degree of support, but it required constant repair while these Advanced Landing Fields (ALF) were in use.

Hence the black looking runways in avaChanl. :)
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: Tinkles on February 22, 2014, 05:29:46 PM
I wouldn't mind adding single airstrip, maybe tucked away in the woods somewhere, for the vehicle bases. They need one for the Fi 156, and if need be by the map maker, they could spawn the ju87g, il2, hurri2d tank killers. Maybe just have one or two ordnance bunkers near the airstrip. Plus it would make a good place for wounded birds to land if you can't reach a friendly main airfield.

 :pray
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: Easyscor on February 22, 2014, 05:43:51 PM
 :old:

Please include a large three span arched bridge we can install with the Terrain Editor for crossing rivers.
I think it should default as clutter, but with a destroyed shape, they could have additional uses if defined as bombable.

 :aok
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: kvuo75 on February 22, 2014, 06:24:32 PM
i'm thoroughly confused on what is good for the game.. the game is fun..

fun is what's good for the game.  :aok

Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: Volron on February 22, 2014, 07:21:07 PM
Good Morning,

Again, just waxing out loud here - kicking out ideas, nothing set in stone.

In my head, the property lines / hedge rows would be more like sparse tree/shrub lines. Not like the current impassable hedges we have in the town now.

In regards to the spawns being not equal in distance to the map-room, I think that's really a moot issue, as currently it's the same way in game. You can spawn into a base from one way and be right on top of town, and some you have to drive over and across the airfield to get to town. It all depends on the luck of the draw on your countries spawn into a base when you're attacking a certain field.

As far as how hard it is to capture a base, we do have variables for the amount of town that has to be down in order to capture, which can be adjusted.
 
>One idea was to have less town buildings for the medium / small /vehicle bases. Currently there is around 100 buildings in the town, which is what I was planning on for the large airfield. So maybe have 75 for the medium field, 50 for the small field, and 35-40 for the vehicle base. That would set up hierarchy of difficulty on capturing fields, which is something I'm not sure we would want to do.<

We're still in discussion on how to do the road / rail system, So I really have no clue how that's going to turnout. The supply depot on the drawing was an idea on where to have the supply convoys terminate.

I'll tag this one as wishlist:

     One thing I would like to see done in regards to base supply would be to have a large rail yard / distribution center for a zone of bases. Trains would leave the city for the distribution centers, then convoys would truck supplies from the distribution centers to the airfields.  Destroying / damaging the Distribution center would slow down the resupply to the bases it supplies. If you kill a destroy a train heading to a distribution center, you would hinder the supply time for all of the bases that are supplied by that distribution center, as well as the rebuild time of the distribution center. Destroy a convoy and you hinder the supply to the field it was traveling to. This would make distribution centers and trains regional targets that need to be protected. I would also like to see dots for trains / convoys on the clipboard map when you have them enabled. Or maybe once a friendly gets within a certain range of train/convoy, it would show up as a dot for a period of time.

Another thought I had, is for base capture. if all auto ack / manned guns would have to be down, or just town guns. For this layout, I'm leaning towards town building only having to be down for capture. If you can get a goon or m3 in, and you or your troops don't die in the crossfire, you sir, deserve a medal. We'll have to discuss that one.

Like I said before, just kicking out ideas - nothing set in stone.



I always found it off that the amount of effort to capture a field is exactly the same (IE: It takes 10 troops for all fields; towns are the same size for all Airfields and all towns had same amount of guns). :headscratch:
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: Stresser on February 22, 2014, 10:05:45 PM
...I'll tag this one as wishlist:

     One thing I would like to see done in regards to base supply would be to have a large rail yard / distribution center for a zone of bases. Trains would leave the city for the distribution centers, then convoys would truck supplies from the distribution centers to the airfields.  Destroying / damaging the Distribution center would slow down the resupply to the bases it supplies. If you kill a destroy a train heading to a distribution center, you would hinder the supply time for all of the bases that are supplied by that distribution center, as well as the rebuild time of the distribution center. Destroy a convoy and you hinder the supply to the field it was traveling to. This would make distribution centers and trains regional targets that need to be protected. I would also like to see dots for trains / convoys on the clipboard map when you have them enabled. Or maybe once a friendly gets within a certain range of train/convoy, it would show up as a dot for a period of time...


 :aok I love this idea.

Being able to attack supply centers, and disrupt the delivery of supplies within zones, will create a whole new set of possibilities for tactical strikes.
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: Volron on February 22, 2014, 10:40:08 PM
:aok I love this idea.

Being able to attack supply centers, and disrupt the delivery of supplies within zones, will create a whole new set of possibilities for tactical strikes.

I sure hope shipping is included into this setup!  A guaranteed inclusion of the Beau! :x
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: Vraciu on February 22, 2014, 11:23:53 PM
With the new terrain in development, we're also kicking around ideas for airfeild layouts, ect....

I've attached a rough layout of a 4 mile by 4 mile "base" area. This one contains a large airfeild, vehicle complex, surrounding town, and possible supply depot.

Legend:
Dark green is forest / woods
Red lines are hedge / property lines
brown lines - dirt roads
Blue/White circles - town buildings
Yellow dots - supply depot?

Everything else is pretty much labelled.

The basic premise of going this way is to create a detailed centralized game area where most of the fighting takes place, which is normally within one to two miles of a base /town. We anticipate having a higher resolution elevations in these areas which will lend to more gentle hills /slopes and be very conducive for vehicle fights. Also it will allow us to alleviate some of the issues with taking off in heavy bombers, in which there will be longer runways, and clear paths for climb out.

Also, We would have different layouts for each type of base. So there would be more variance in towns/facility layouts, as well as strategies for base capture. Also, we just think that it looks more natural that a square mile airfield, with a square mile town next to it.

I just wanted to post this to you guys and get some feedback about it. It's still in very early planning stages, so the sky's not falling yet. :)

I love the map and the revetments add so much realism.

I suggest adding a spawn for fighters at every revetment.....modified with damage.   You know...
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: Greebo on February 23, 2014, 05:50:41 AM
I wouldn't mind adding single airstrip, maybe tucked away in the woods somewhere, for the vehicle bases. They need one for the Fi 156, and if need be by the map maker, they could spawn the ju87g, il2, hurri2d tank killers. Maybe just have one or two ordnance bunkers near the airstrip. Plus it would make a good place for wounded birds to land if you can't reach a friendly main airfield.

The main thrust of the idea was to have an airfield with no ord or barracks to restrict it to a mainly defensive role. From an MA map designer's POV this opens up some new possibilities WRT field layout. The designer could place some of them across the front line in order to funnel an attacking country into attacking certain fields that do have barracks and ord. Or he could put one on an island as a low-risk CV attack target. Or as I said before use them to defend TT, other fields or strat without them becoming a major threat when they change hands. Currently all the airfields have exactly the same capabilities, they only vary in size. Having this type of field would add variety to the game and some interest to MA map design, as would the bridge base.

WRT the supply roads and railway lines, would it be possible for the Terrain Editor to automatically add a bridge wherever the supply road or line crosses water, rather than having the random bridges that are scattered along their length now?
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: Rich46yo on February 23, 2014, 05:57:12 AM
Its new, it exciting, Im already scheming up approach angles to bomb it to hell. :D
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: jtdragon on February 23, 2014, 07:25:16 AM
Look's good so far Waf, BUT STILL WANT A WINTER MAP
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: ghi on February 23, 2014, 07:25:53 AM



Also, We would have different layouts for each type of base. So there would be more variance in towns/facility layouts, as well as strategies for base capture.

Make the base capture at least 50% easier to capture than it is now,( reduce town size, eliminate some acks, 2 VHS are plenty at Vbases not 4 and downtime(town) without Ninja m3s resup option 30 min);
IMO  is way to difficult to capture bases for this game and the number of players this days, this is the reason the same boring maps stalled for 6 days in MA . Let players have the satisfaction to capture trade bases and win more often, more dynamic strategic gameplay and refresh maps.
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: FLOOB on February 23, 2014, 09:09:51 AM
Look's good so far Waf, BUT STILL WANT A WINTER MAP
I think that would be cool but it will never happen. One time there was a desert map in the MA and people FLIPPED THE F OUT! All because of the color of the terrain. People would say that the color was actually causing them physical pain, I'm not kidding. And numbers dropped when ever that terrain was in the MA so it was taken out of rotation. I may be mistaken but I think they just changed the terrain textures to green and put it back in rotation. Never underestimate the democratic power of stupidity.
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: Sunka on February 23, 2014, 09:15:51 AM
I think that would be cool but it will never happen.
I think you might be wrong ,their was alluding to by HiTech about having different session maps.
I think this would bring many players that find our world very very very boring.


EDIT ,btw anything HTC has ever done or changed ,we have people that complain non stop,this is no different then 200  :cry

 :aok
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: FLOOB on February 23, 2014, 09:26:29 AM
Yeah but they voted with their feet. That's why we don't have night time and that's why we don't have MA terrains that aren't green.
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: The Fugitive on February 23, 2014, 09:26:44 AM
I think that would be cool but it will never happen. One time there was a desert map in the MA and people FLIPPED THE F OUT! All because of the color of the terrain. People would say that the color was actually causing them physical pain, I'm not kidding. And numbers dropped when ever that terrain was in the MA so it was taken out of rotation. I may be mistaken but I think they just changed the terrain textures to green and put it back in rotation. Never underestimate the democratic power of stupidity.

Wrong on several counts.

A few people did complain that the coloring gave them headaches, I think it was more the game play  :devil

People did NOT "flip out" as it was a pretty popular map as it had these huge unrealistic canyons which made for great air combat. It also had lots of GV bases around the outside edge of the map where GVers could play pretty much unmolested from the air. With wide water ways splitting the map it made for lots of CV to land battles.

I don't remember the "numbers dropping" when the map rolled around in rotation, as I said it was a popular map. It was taken out of rotation because HTC did an update to the terrain and the master files for the AKDesert map were lost so it could not be updated.

NHawk did make a new map called SmPizza which had the same basic shape but didn't have the water ways nor a sand/desert texture.

So it wasn't an issue with the "players" as posted, it was a technical issue.

As to getting a winter map, email HTC and ask if they would accept one and then get to work making it. I don't see where it would be as big an issue as it use to be. File size was a big issue due to transfer/download times, but with the vast majority being on high speed internet I don't think it would be as big an issue. The problem with a winter map or a desert map is the number of tiles that would have to be reworked increasing the size of the download. You'll never know with out asking tho.
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: Sunka on February 23, 2014, 09:31:10 AM
Yeah but they voted with their feet. That's why we don't have night time and that's why we don't have MA terrains that aren't green.
The current stuff I am working on has a 660 Foot vertex res, AH currently has 2480 res. I doubt will will go denser then this.

The new system has 16 + 4 base texture types the 16 are base types like rock grass snow ext..




HiTech









 
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: FLOOB on February 23, 2014, 09:33:54 AM
People did FLIP THE F OUT. The numbers did drop, and the map is no longer in rotation. The terrain files got lost despite being downloaded by thousands of players.
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: Sunka on February 23, 2014, 09:35:34 AM
People did FLIP THE F OUT. The numbers did drop, and the map is no longer in rotation. The terrain files got lost despite being downloaded by thousands of players.
Well now that your using caps and the letter F you have convinced me. :D
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: FLOOB on February 23, 2014, 09:36:57 AM
Well now that your using caps and the letter F you have convinced me. :D
Did you have doubt?
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: FLOOB on February 23, 2014, 09:39:15 AM

I don't understand what you're trying to say in this post.
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: The Fugitive on February 23, 2014, 09:50:00 AM
People did FLIP THE F OUT.

No they didn't

Quote
The numbers did drop,

No they didn't..... wheres Lusche when you need him!

Quote
and the map is no longer in rotation. The terrain files got lost despite being downloaded by thousands of players.

Here you show that you don't know what your talking about. When building a map there are a number of source files that are compiled to create the RES file for the terrain. The source file are the ones that were lost and so the tiles could not be updated and so it could not be compiled and made into a RES file that could be used by the game.
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: Lusche on February 23, 2014, 09:59:27 AM
No they didn't..... wheres Lusche when you need him!


I can't make any statement in this case... no data, no first hand experience, no conclusive BBS threads in either direction that I can find.
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: Greebo on February 23, 2014, 10:06:49 AM
IIRC the Pizza map got deleted when the last big terrain change was implemented. As it used custom textures these would have to be redone by the map designer to the current terrain format and for whatever reason this was not done.

Currently the problem with a winter MA map is that there are no winter objects in the game. It would be quite possible and allowable to create an MA map with snow texture over most of the land surface, but all the buildings, trees, hedges, rocks, roads, shore batteries etc. would have no snow covering them and would stick out like sore thumbs against the white ground. MA map designers are not allowed by HTC to alter the textures on these objects, partly because all those textures would make the terrain size huge and partly because errors made in altering these objects could crash the game. Maybe the new terrain system will make this possible in some way, but I haven't seen anything yet that would support that.

I did consider having some places on my MA map where a few high SPs were above the snow line so players could fight in a winter terrain and use winter GV skins for camo. Then I realised players would just turn off skins to make their opponents' tanks stand out against the white and gave up on the idea.
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: Lusche on February 23, 2014, 10:08:54 AM
IIRC the Pizza map got deleted when the last big terrain change was implemented. As it used custom textures these would have to be redone by the map designer to the current terrain format and for whatever reason this was not done.

It was deletde much earler than that, probably with going from AH1 to AH2 in 2004, because when I joined AH in 2005 it was already gone.  :old:
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: The Fugitive on February 23, 2014, 10:40:59 AM
They have had more than one update to the terrain in all the time I've been here.

You do know this game was running well enough BEFORE you came along right Lusche  :neener:
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: FLOOB on February 23, 2014, 11:11:53 AM
No they didn't

No they didn't..... wheres Lusche when you need him!

Here you show that you don't know what your talking about. When building a map there are a number of source files that are compiled to create the RES file for the terrain. The source file are the ones that were lost and so the tiles could not be updated and so it could not be compiled and made into a RES file that could be used by the game.
Ok so they didn't take it out of rotation, they "lost" it. lol

Greebo there are no snowmen anymore?
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: Kazaa on February 23, 2014, 11:14:53 AM
Improving the game gets a +1 from me.
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: Meatwad on February 23, 2014, 11:20:36 AM
That looks nice  :)
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: WWhiskey on February 23, 2014, 12:26:06 PM
Can't wait to play around with this!!   Looks great! :aok
I may have missed the motor pool tho?


Oops.  I found it!!!   Very nice!
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: GScholz on February 23, 2014, 12:45:32 PM
I liked Pizza...
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: jedi25 on February 23, 2014, 12:59:37 PM
Guys,

There are some great information on airfield-structures-layouts during WWII.
You can access the PDF documents if you have a register acct.
Go ahead and check it out

http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/technical/airfield-structures-layouts-7452.html (http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/technical/airfield-structures-layouts-7452.html)


Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: Waffle on February 23, 2014, 04:52:23 PM
My personal favorite manual: FM 20.15 Tents and Tent Pitching.  :lol
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: Vraciu on February 23, 2014, 06:07:51 PM
We had desert maps in WBs.  Nobody ever complained...
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: Chilli on February 23, 2014, 06:24:02 PM
My personal favorite manual: FM 20.15 Tents and Tent Pitching.  :lol

Hey, anyone else old enough to remember WW2 Surplus pup tents.  Our Boy Scout troop stored them in our shed, so I remember them well.  They were pretty much a bunch of canvas sheets with triangular flaps on each end.  They buttoned one side to another. 

My dad said that each soldier had one half of the tent in his supply pack.  Soldiers would have to bunk with at least one other just to get a full tent.  :lol  Mostly, he said they were fortunate enough to find indoor shelter and the tents were mostly used to cover the bombed out windows.  The other deal with them was, in the field they could band a bunch of them together and make a more suitable living quarters with walls included.  They were also issued a wood burning heater with a chimney exhaust.

(http://usarmy.vo.llnwd.net/e2/-images/1947/10/01/7351/size0-army.mil-2007-08-27-142102.jpg) (http://img1.iwascoding.com/4/paid/2013/06/08/09/3E792D3B14364D4C9505EDAD77D5EBCA.jpg)
(http://www.ozatwar.com/locations/campseabee02.jpg)



Nothing so much to do with the tents (although the bumps on the racetrack grounds are tent camps).  Mostly, I thought it resembled somewhat Waffle's vision for new fields.  Also, I thought my Aussie friends in AH should have a field of their own (Camp Doomben, Queensland, Australia).
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: save on February 23, 2014, 06:56:33 PM
Grass fields, and ability to bomb craters where you can bump into them would be nice !
Most fields where not paved IRL.

Vehicle spawns should be made so if in gun sight range of enemy vehicles, they move back to next spawn backwards in 3-10 steps, forcing spawn camping to be less effective ( front war).


Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: Easyscor on February 23, 2014, 07:50:39 PM
Those WW2 Surplus pup tents were terrible in the rain. I woke up more than once laying in a sleeping bag full of water. It didn't matter if it was on a hill with a good trench moat, we got soaked. Touch the canvas and you'd better have a pan ready to catch the water.
:cry
Even with a good water proofing chemical, I wouldn't waste a match setting one on fire.
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: USRanger on February 23, 2014, 07:54:37 PM
 :rofl

Welcome to the suck troop.  ;)
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: jedi25 on February 23, 2014, 08:04:49 PM
Waffle,

I like this this large airfield setup, anyone else..

(http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/attachments/technical/43180d1180381991-airfield-structures-layouts-airfields.jpg)


Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: ReVo on February 23, 2014, 08:06:36 PM
We had desert maps in WBs.  Nobody ever complained...

Maybe you should go back to warbi... Oh right, you can't.  :rofl
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: Scherf on February 23, 2014, 09:24:40 PM
I like anything that spreads the action out. I hope the supply depots have something to do with the strat system, road and convoys and barges and trains and horse-drawn carts and Bloody Peasants with their muck.
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: CDR1 on February 23, 2014, 10:36:32 PM
If I understand the update being considered correctly it is a "terrain" update not a Physics update. We should all be careful what we ask for, The game play in Aces high is what keeps me coming back not the graphics engine. Sure it would be nice to be able to push trees over and drive and shoot through buildings, but not at the cost of "balancing".
wot and War Thunder has all that and it is stunningly boring gaming the game, game play. I would be all in on a future aces high that pulled in a little "ARMA3" appearance and game play, but just like in the past I really like hi tech's "little steps improvement". The game play is all about the subscribers we play with and I would hate that bunch of guys and gals to change much.
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: save on February 24, 2014, 08:44:43 AM



Maybe you should go back to warbi... Oh right, you can.  :rofl


Fixed !

Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: Arlo on February 24, 2014, 09:05:05 AM


Fixed !



I was here in 2008.  I left and came back.  If Warbirds was viable I would still be THERE.  HTC won by default being the last of the Mohicans....

Warbirds already did this.  When I started there it had better numbers than AH has now.  Less than a decade later it is effectively gone.  That which has been is that which shall be...


Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: morfiend on February 24, 2014, 10:09:22 AM
My personal favorite manual: FM 20.15 Tents and Tent Pitching.  :lol


 they wrote a manual for that........  I pitch a tent every mourning and I've never used a manual....well :noid



    :salute
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: Arlo on February 24, 2014, 10:14:47 AM

 they wrote a manual for that........  I pitch a tent every mourning and I've never used a manual....well :noid



    :salute

"mourning" .... Freudian?
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: morfiend on February 24, 2014, 10:18:11 AM
"mourning" .... Freudian?


 Canadian Eh!




   :salute
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: wpeters on February 24, 2014, 10:27:50 AM
Waffle, another thing that came to my mind is can we do something about bomb craters. Today we can take off a field that has bomb crater and not damage our plane. Why can't the bomb craters stay up for 10-15 min and anything that hits thoughs crater depending how fast your going will take damage or even kill yourself. The bomber is then awarded the points. See the logic of one plane dropping lots of 100-250 lb bombs down a runway to shut it down.

 I think this will add some historical value to dropping ords on a runway.


Just a dream of mine. :salute
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: Ray77 on February 24, 2014, 10:33:51 AM
Waffle, another thing that came to my mind is can we do something about bomb craters. Today we can take off a field that has bomb crater and not damage our plane. Why can't the bomb craters stay up for 10-15 min and anything that hits thoughs crater depending how fast your going will take damage or even kill yourself. The bomber is then awarded the points. See the logic of one plane dropping lots of 100-250 lb bombs down a runway to shut it down.

 I think this will add some historical value to dropping ords on a runway.


Just a dream of mine. :salute
+1
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: Delirium on February 24, 2014, 11:35:53 AM
That is how bomb craters used to work in AH. It was horrible as one guy could put bombs in each spawn area and effectively shut down the field.

A HUGE -1 to that
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: Zoney on February 24, 2014, 11:38:25 AM
That is how bomb craters used to work in AH. It was horrible as one guy could put bombs in each spawn area and effectively shut down the field.

A HUGE -1 to that

And I would follow with a HUGE +1 because it makes the game more difficult.  Bring it.
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: wpeters on February 24, 2014, 11:39:39 AM
That is how bomb craters used to work in AH. It was horrible as one guy could put bombs in each spawn area and effectively shut down the field.

A HUGE -1 to that


You can always take off out of the hanger
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: bozon on February 24, 2014, 11:46:11 AM
Waffle, another thing that came to my mind is can we do something about bomb craters. Today we can take off a field that has bomb crater and not damage our plane. Why can't the bomb craters stay up for 10-15 min and anything that hits thoughs crater depending how fast your going will take damage or even kill yourself. The bomber is then awarded the points. See the logic of one plane dropping lots of 100-250 lb bombs down a runway to shut it down.

 I think this will add some historical value to dropping ords on a runway.
This is not historical. Not WWII at least.
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: wpeters on February 24, 2014, 01:36:15 PM
This is not historical. Not WWII at least.

Ummnn  How do explain these

(http://i.imgur.com/6bRLN6h.jpg)
Vertical photographic-reconnaissance aerial taken over the airfield at Volkel, Holland, following a daylight raid by aircraft of Bomber Command on 3 September 1944, when this and five other airfields in southern Holland were subject to heavy attacks. Over 800 bomb craters on the airfield and among the damaged buildings are visible.

(http://i.imgur.com/HNZlTAd.jpg)

Vertical photographic reconnaissance aerial showing the airfield of Melsbroek, Belgium, following a daylight attack by aircraft of Bomber Command on 15 August 1944. Craters from bombs cover most of the airfield, which was one of nine attacked in preparation for a renewed night offensive against Germany.

(http://i.imgur.com/lxG2HVs.jpg)
Airfield Twente, Holland

(http://i.imgur.com/exbbPpM.jpg)
German fighters scramble from Martuba airfield (Libya) while under South African bombing attack


In 1943, a new set of GP bombs were produced: the M57 250lb, M64 500lb, M65 1000lb and M66 2000lb. These accounted for most of the bombs dropped in the final year of the war. In January 1945, experts recommended 250lb GP bombs to be used against synthetic oil plants, ammunition dumps and oil storage facilities. the 100lb bomb was recommended for attacking railway yards and runways.  http://www.303rdbg.com/bombs.html


If that is not enough proof IDK what is.

As far as Delirums post, then we shouldn't be able to kill hangars, because no one can take off when they are down. :salute
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: Fish42 on February 24, 2014, 03:46:53 PM

You can always take off out of the hanger

No, that what he is saying. 2 LAs with their small bomb load.... or any fighter that can carry 3 bombs, would be able to shut down a small field completely. 1 bomb at each end and a bomb on the spawn hanger. Your fighters would be damaged just spawning to take off.

Large and Med airfields would be harder but it would still be easier then putting 3000 into each FH.

Vulchers would have it easy too, a few small bombs after a rocket de-ack and now the targets can only spawn at one point, tasty.
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: WWhiskey on February 24, 2014, 04:43:13 PM
No, that what he is saying. 2 LAs with their small bomb load.... or any fighter that can carry 3 bombs, would be able to shut down a small field completely. 1 bomb at each end and a bomb on the spawn hanger. Your fighters would be damaged just spawning to take off.

Large and Med airfields would be harder but it would still be easier then putting 3000 into each FH.

Vulchers would have it easy too, a few small bombs after a rocket de-ack and now the targets can only spawn at one point, tasty.
so harden the spawn points but leave the rest of the runway soft for bomb craters
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: Volron on February 24, 2014, 04:48:36 PM
so harden the spawn points but leave the rest of the runway soft for bomb craters
:aok
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: craz07 on February 24, 2014, 04:51:06 PM
Takes away from the skill of the game.. NO bomb craters... althought it was a tactic in RL.. I would think most bombers werent a 10 minute flight away from airfields like it is in game, and they couldn't  die/bail and reup and nail some more spawn points..
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: whiteman on February 24, 2014, 04:54:40 PM
Waffle, another thing that came to my mind is can we do something about bomb craters. Today we can take off a field that has bomb crater and not damage our plane. Why can't the bomb craters stay up for 10-15 min and anything that hits thoughs crater depending how fast your going will take damage or even kill yourself. The bomber is then awarded the points. See the logic of one plane dropping lots of 100-250 lb bombs down a runway to shut it down.

 I think this will add some historical value to dropping ords on a runway.


Just a dream of mine. :salute

Theres a reason this was ditched long ago. Worst idea ever.
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: WWhiskey on February 24, 2014, 04:58:15 PM
Driving your plane around the craters would not be out of the question, the time frame for damage repair could be set rather fast,, maybe even make the bomber runways hardened  but smaller runways soft
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: kvuo75 on February 24, 2014, 04:59:28 PM
And I would follow with a HUGE +1 because it makes the game more difficult.  Bring it.

more difficult for who? certainly not the buff driver.

just sounds like "I want an easier way to shut down a field, hitting hangars with easymode bomb sights is too hard"





Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: Brooke on February 24, 2014, 05:22:11 PM
I like it.

I would also like to see some fields that don't have concrete, that do have grass or depending on locale, dirt, or pierced steel planking for bases that are less developed, closer to front lines, or forward air strips.
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: Zoney on February 24, 2014, 05:27:32 PM
Well, no it makes it harder for all planes that want to roll on the runway and takeoff, I think buff drivers do that too.  You might have to manuever around a few craters as you roll.  That would be harder.  You might have to take off from a near by base.

It was used in RL.  I think this game is full of hard core gamers, this certainly isn't an easy game.  I see alot of posts that basically make game play easier and easier and also posts that basically want time shortcuts, again making it easier.  If you are new here I understand your frustration, there is alot to learn here.  But after you have played for some time, making the game easier is probably not a priority as some folks, like me enjoy the challenge.
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: FLOOB on February 24, 2014, 05:52:50 PM
No, that what he is saying. 2 LAs with their small bomb load.... or any fighter that can carry 3 bombs, would be able to shut down a small field completely. 1 bomb at each end and a bomb on the spawn hanger. Your fighters would be damaged just spawning to take off.

Large and Med airfields would be harder but it would still be easier then putting 3000 into each FH.

Vulchers would have it easy too, a few small bombs after a rocket de-ack and now the targets can only spawn at one point, tasty.
He's right. It's not speculation, it's experience. The instant you spawn you hear CLANG CLANG CLANG and find yourself sitting in a crater in a broken plane on an otherwise intact airfield that is now useless because aeroplane spawn points are now by far the easiest and most obvious porkable strat objects.
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: save on February 25, 2014, 02:52:32 AM
That's why we want huge grass fields too, not paved runways only. you can bomb, but only make so much damage, also makes vulching harder since you dont know where they take of from
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: FLOOB on February 25, 2014, 10:29:10 AM
Why do you think that the solution to spawning into a crater would be changing what the crater is made of?
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: wpeters on February 25, 2014, 12:19:46 PM
So make it if 100,000 lb is dropped on the runway it will be shut down for 20 min.
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: caldera on February 25, 2014, 12:25:36 PM
So make it if 100,000 lb is dropped on the runway it will be shut down for 20 min.

So a nice big hand-holding horde can disable the other guys from taking off because they are afraid of getting shot down.  :uhoh
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: Tinkles on February 25, 2014, 12:29:25 PM
So make it if 100,000 lb is dropped on the runway it will be shut down for 20 min.

I went into the arena setup area in offline mode, checked the 'damage' required for runways and it looks to be 125k, if not mistaken.

125k ...

1 b29 with 40 500s (20k) x3 is 60k so 2 formations of b29s and 1 p47 or a medium bomber.. to take out a runway for 20 mins

OR

You use 1 formation of b29s to take out about 3 bases worth of hangars and towns (WF).



Seems like a waste to me.
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: FLOOB on February 25, 2014, 12:43:28 PM
Tinkles that just makes the concrete graphic texture of the runway disappear, doesn't make anything unusable.

Man there is so much that so many players don't know about AH. I should write a book, "So You Want to be Like Me".
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: USRanger on February 25, 2014, 02:24:06 PM
Tinkles that just makes the concrete graphic texture of the runway disappear, doesn't make anything unusable. Wrong.  The runway would disappear until the downtime is up.  Without going in and looking I believe the downtime for a runway is less than a second by default, just in case.

Man there is so much that so many players don't know about AH. I should write a book, "So You Want to be Like Me".Yes, please enlighten the mindless masses with all of your AH experience.  We look forward to it.

 :)
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: DubiousKB on February 25, 2014, 03:54:47 PM
has anyone actually destroyed a runway in game?  125k damage i think was posted in this thread... But what happens then? What message is generated to the pilot - unable to fly your plane from this field due to runway destruction?

Just curious how the game handles a "destroyed" runway.   :uhoh
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: FLOOB on February 25, 2014, 04:05:02 PM
I said the runway disappears and you come back with. "Wrong, the runway disappears!"  :headscratch:
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: FLOOB on February 25, 2014, 04:37:24 PM
has anyone actually destroyed a runway in game?  125k damage i think was posted in this thread... But what happens then? What message is generated to the pilot - unable to fly your plane from this field due to runway destruction?

Just curious how the game handles a "destroyed" runway.   :uhoh
I haven't seen it since I used to make terrains back in AH1 but all that happens is that the concrete disappears, it doesn't affect spawning or taking off and landing.
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: lunatic1 on February 25, 2014, 05:37:41 PM
I think moving the field away from the town while being a bit more realistic would help moving the fight away from the field, but is a 4 mile square big enough to do that?

(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii253/maddogjoe_photos/4x4milelargeairfeild-2_zpsb6061b91.jpg) (http://s266.photobucket.com/user/maddogjoe_photos/media/4x4milelargeairfeild-2_zpsb6061b91.jpg.html)

Would an 8 mile tile be better?

I also think 4 radar antennas would be better as well. HTC already has a system in place for losing "parts" of a commodity like ammo and fuel, adding radar to that system might not be too tough.
:O  look at all the ack
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: lunatic1 on February 25, 2014, 05:39:28 PM
REMEMBER you more stuff you ask for or want to change--makes it longer till we get it in game....just sayin
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: USRanger on February 25, 2014, 06:05:27 PM
I said the runway disappears and you come back with. "Wrong, the runway disappears!"  :headscratch:

Actually you said the "graphic texture".  Totally different than the runway object.  Without the actual runway object, there would be no "Landed successfully".  I'm not a nit-picker, but there is a big difference here.  Just wanted to make sure you knew the difference before starting your book. :)
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: XxDaSTaRxx on February 25, 2014, 08:53:21 PM
Yes Yes and a side of Yes

 :aok
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: Chilli on February 26, 2014, 03:47:10 AM
Peters,

Balancing the historical and realistic content against the needs of a gaming environment, seems to be something that doesn't always allow for the obvious to occur.

Imagine if you will that every time a flight of Buffs flew over, in game they peppered a runway (extremely easy to do).  This featured would be gamed immediately and many players would soon turn an angry eye towards the developers.  Take that same concept to the few Carriers that are in the game and some of the most fun and challenging battles in the game would be wiped away by a single hit from a Shore Battery or single Jabo run.

Now, me personally, I would just love to roll my tank over a few twigs and leaves without ricocheting off like a pinball machine, ditching my perked vehicle because I landed upside down.   :pray  But, I leave it to the developers to decide if that feature would be more helpful or harmful in the present state of gameplay.

So, I am not dumping on your idea.  I am only offering a flip  :rolleyes: side to ideas about changing damage models.  Having said that, the one area where HTC has gone way out of their way to recreate realistic damage modeling has been with the aircraft and munitions. :aok
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: DREDIOCK on February 26, 2014, 07:51:07 PM
Those WW2 Surplus pup tents were terrible in the rain. I woke up more than once laying in a sleeping bag full of water. It didn't matter if it was on a hill with a good trench moat, we got soaked. Touch the canvas and you'd better have a pan ready to catch the water.
:cry
Even with a good water proofing chemical, I wouldn't waste a match setting one on fire.

You do know you're not supposed to touch the canvas when its raining right? One time that was fairly common knowledge.

Used em. Never had a problem with em cept the one time someone decided to put the "do not touch the canvas" to the test
That would be my then girlfriend.
was her. Me and a beagle terrier mix dog I had. By the next morning there was only 1 3X3 foot square dry spot in the entire tent...And the dog had it.
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: DREDIOCK on February 26, 2014, 08:03:01 PM
Good Morning,

Again, just waxing out loud here - kicking out ideas, nothing set in stone.



We're still in discussion on how to do the road / rail system, So I really have no clue how that's going to turnout. The supply depot on the drawing was an idea on where to have the supply convoys terminate.

I'll tag this one as wishlist:

     One thing I would like to see done in regards to base supply would be to have a large rail yard / distribution center for a zone of bases. Trains would leave the city for the distribution centers, then convoys would truck supplies from the distribution centers to the airfields.  Destroying / damaging the Distribution center would slow down the resupply to the bases it supplies. If you kill a destroy a train heading to a distribution center, you would hinder the supply time for all of the bases that are supplied by that distribution center, as well as the rebuild time of the distribution center. Destroy a convoy and you hinder the supply to the field it was traveling to. This would make distribution centers and trains regional targets that need to be protected. I would also like to see dots for trains / convoys on the clipboard map when you have them enabled. Or maybe once a friendly gets within a certain range of train/convoy, it would show up as a dot for a period of time.



Like I said before, just kicking out ideas - nothing set in stone.



I like what Im hearing about resupply.

On giving thought to the roads. quite frankly I think there should be other then just resupply roads a general road net that would improve travel by GVs. Currently it doesnt matter if you are traveling over open ground or by way of road. There is no benefit to traveling by road when IRL the road net was of utmost importance. For example  The entire reason Bastogne was so important was the roads it was connected to.
I personally would like to see somethign like a full speed allowance for over road traavel But have that reduced by say half when traveling cross country.
Not so bad when your in a GV fight. But makes a difference when trying to get to a town or to a fight
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: Scherf on February 26, 2014, 09:57:47 PM
Dropping bombs on the runway to prevent its use is just griefing. As above, any tard with half an ounce of ord was able to shut down the field, back when this was in use (WBs?).
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: Torcher on February 28, 2014, 12:19:55 PM
Building a new Haswell powered system tonight ... bring it on  :aok
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: Waffle on March 14, 2014, 12:34:02 PM
Was just wondering if anyone had any layout / maps of any military complexes that could be used as a vehicle bases / supply depots. Also any Nationality/Theater of Airfields. I Have "The Might Eighth War Manual" that has airfield layouts, so I don't need those. Any Pacific pacific fields, German bases, ect... would be helpful. I'm probably going to be starting on these mid next week.


Thanks,

Waffle
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: lyric1 on March 14, 2014, 12:53:48 PM
Was just wondering if anyone had any layout / maps of any military complexes that could be used as a vehicle bases / supply depots. Also any Nationality/Theater of Airfields. I Have "The Might Eighth War Manual" that has airfield layouts, so I don't need those. Any Pacific pacific fields, German bases, ect... would be helpful. I'm probably going to be starting on these mid next week.


Thanks,

Waffle

Some things on this site.

http://www.airfieldinformationexchange.org/community/forum.php

http://www.airfieldinformationexchange.org/community/forumdisplay.php?162-Pacific-Airfields
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: Volron on March 14, 2014, 03:38:26 PM
Leave it to lyric to be on the ball!  WOOO! :rock
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: Fish42 on March 14, 2014, 04:33:12 PM
Jackson Airfield (7 Mile Drome)

Located: 2.4 mies Northeast of Port Moresby 09°26′36″S 147°13′12″E

Named in honor of Squadron Leader John Francis Jackson, D.F.C. 75 Squadron Royal Australian Air Force, aged 34. Killed in action while flying P-40E A29-8 on 28th April, 1942.

Jackson airfield was one of the primary airfields at Port Moresby at the start of the Japanese invasion of the island, and one of their principal targets. It based the first fighters that flew in defense of Port Moresby, RAAF 75 Squadron from March - May 1942. It was originally a pre-war airstrip with two parallel runways. American B-17 Flying Fortresses used the airfield en route to Clark Field on 9 September 1941. During the war, it was further expanded and improved by the Australians and Americans.

When American forces arrived in April 1942, the airfield was further developed. Eventually there were three parallel runways, running roughly north-west to south-east. In the middle was the original runway, a fighter strip 3,000' x 100' surfaced with Pierced Steel Planking (PSP). To the north-east side was a bomber strip 3,000' x 150' surfaced with PSP later expanded to 3,750'. On the south-west side was a crash strip 7,500' x 100'. Revetment were constructed to protect parked aircraft and defenses. A network of taxiways between Jackson and Wards Airfields made it possible to taxi between the two airfields.


(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7b/Jackson_Airfield_-_New_Guinea.jpg)

http://pacificwrecks.com/airfields/png/7-mile/maps/map-jackson.html#axzz2vyQsGtAC
http://pacificwrecks.com/airfields/png/7-mile/1943/03-16/jackson-vertical.html#axzz2vyQsGtAC
http://pacificwrecks.com/airfields/png/7-mile/photos.html


(http://www.pacificairfields.com/photos/10.jpg)
Photo of 7-mile drome maintenance facilities.

(http://www.pacificairfields.com/photos/11.jpg)
Aerial view showing Jackson Drome runways, taxiways, and dispersal areas, at Port Moresby, New Guinea (March 16, 1943 - altitude 5,000 feet).


Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: craz07 on March 14, 2014, 04:36:43 PM
Leave it to lyric to be on the ball!  WOOO! :rock

LOL Yea not all of em just sit around smoking cigarettes trying to look kewl  :aok
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: Changeup on March 14, 2014, 06:37:22 PM
Was just wondering if anyone had any layout / maps of any military complexes that could be used as a vehicle bases / supply depots. Also any Nationality/Theater of Airfields. I Have "The Might Eighth War Manual" that has airfield layouts, so I don't need those. Any Pacific pacific fields, German bases, ect... would be helpful. I'm probably going to be starting on these mid next week.


Thanks,

Waffle

Waffle,

5th AF/38th Bombardment Grp/71st Squadron (medium) have their mission history, with field photos, at
http://www.sunsetters38bg.com/index.php/gallery/Strike%20Photos

or in their mission docs...there are some photo recce's in these

http://www.sunsetters38bg.com/index.php/documents/cat_view/3-71st-afhra-documents
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: Dragon Tamer on March 14, 2014, 07:47:26 PM
So does this mean that the new airfields are going to have names and not just numbers?
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: XxDaSTaRxx on March 14, 2014, 08:07:49 PM
So does this mean that the new airfields are going to have names and not just numbers?
That'd be sort of cool  :aok
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: Saxman on March 14, 2014, 09:05:47 PM
I'll just be giddy seeing it looks like there's going some primitive airfields (coral, PSP, dirt, etc.).
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: Chugamug on March 14, 2014, 10:18:01 PM
Since dying is what we do most, we should have a cemetery in the new town.
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: The Fugitive on March 15, 2014, 09:05:13 AM
Since dying is what we do most, we should have a cemetery in the new town.

can you imagine the opportunities for witty little sayings/easter eggs in a cemetery?  :devil
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: lunatic1 on March 15, 2014, 10:01:02 AM
more difficult for who? certainly not the buff driver.

just sounds like "I want an easier way to shut down a field, hitting hangars with easymode bomb sights is too hard"






i think it would be more diffecult<---cant't spell--for the computer to keep track of who gets credit for which crater kills somebody-esp if you get 2 or 3 diff players or more dropping on same runway or spawn
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: lunatic1 on March 15, 2014, 10:04:08 AM
I like it.

I would also like to see some fields that don't have concrete, that do have grass or depending on locale, dirt, or pierced steel planking for bases that are less developed, closer to front lines, or forward air strips.
hehe i land on the grass and run to runway anyway.esp if trying to get to rearm pad fast
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: caldera on March 15, 2014, 10:53:50 AM
can you imagine the opportunities for witty little sayings/easter eggs in a cemetery?  :devil


(http://i343.photobucket.com/albums/o460/caldera_08/ft.jpg~original) (http://s343.photobucket.com/user/caldera_08/media/ft.jpg.html)



 :neener:
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: Tinkles on March 15, 2014, 11:32:21 AM
 :rofl

(http://i343.photobucket.com/albums/o460/caldera_08/ft.jpg~original) (http://s343.photobucket.com/user/caldera_08/media/ft.jpg.html)



 :neener:
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: The Fugitive on March 15, 2014, 11:40:56 AM

(http://i343.photobucket.com/albums/o460/caldera_08/ft.jpg~original) (http://s343.photobucket.com/user/caldera_08/media/ft.jpg.html)



 :neener:


ahhhh come on, I get it from ALL sides in the end  :neener:
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: BluBerry on March 15, 2014, 01:02:20 PM
(http://i343.photobucket.com/albums/o460/caldera_08/ft.jpg~original) (http://s343.photobucket.com/user/caldera_08/media/ft.jpg.html)

 :lol
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: SysError on March 15, 2014, 01:39:44 PM
great job  :aok

Questions:
 
Which are the spawn hangers?
What will the FTH/BMH/VH/AAA/MAF counts be for other bases? Small. Mid. Port. Vbase.

Comments: 
4 VHs seems a little too much, even for a large base.
Make the FTH by the town a BMH and make it the spawn hanger

+1 on radar ideas above.

Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: noobnite on March 23, 2014, 08:52:57 AM
Any updates on the new base system? Looking foward to seeing it!
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: Devil 505 on March 25, 2014, 07:49:50 AM
I had an idea.

How about if there was a train station in the town and the trains ran between towns?
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: Mystic2 on March 25, 2014, 08:36:04 AM
Looks awsome!! Great job guys
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: FiLtH on March 26, 2014, 12:28:45 AM
Waffle i have only one suggestion . On one of the airfields . Have a layout that can be used like an obstacle course for planes. Rows of taller structures to fly between with open hangers to fly through. It would be nice to have a place where a person could work on precise control of their plane.

  Rows of fuel tanks Billy? :P
Title: Re: Construction Ahead... planning stages
Post by: lyric1 on April 07, 2014, 03:46:01 AM
Was just wondering if anyone had any layout / maps of any military complexes that could be used as a vehicle bases / supply depots. Also any Nationality/Theater of Airfields. I Have "The Might Eighth War Manual" that has airfield layouts, so I don't need those. Any Pacific pacific fields, German bases, ect... would be helpful. I'm probably going to be starting on these mid next week.


Thanks,

Waffle

Indian airfield.
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Galleries/History/WW2/Moolgavkar/Arakmap.jpg.html

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Galleries/History/WW2/Moolgavkar/Arkonam-Aerial.jpg.html