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General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Panic on February 25, 2014, 02:53:38 PM

Title: A-36A Apache Attack plane
Post by: Panic on February 25, 2014, 02:53:38 PM
I want the A-36A(http://[img])[/img] Apache attack plane to be added in a future update of the game.

Crew: 1
Length: 32 ft 3 in (9.83 m)
Wingspan: 37 ft 0.25 in (11.28 m)
Height: 12 ft 2 in (3.71 m)
Loaded weight: 10,000 lb (4,535 kg)
Powerplant: 1 × Allison V-1710-87 liquid-cooled piston V12 engine, 1,325 hp (988 kW)
Performance
Maximum speed: 365 mph (315 kn, 590 km/h)
Cruise speed: 250 mph (215 kn, 400 km/h)
Range: 550 mi (478 nmi, 885 km)
Service ceiling: 25,100ft (7,650 m)
Armament
6 × 0.50 in (12.7 mm) M2 Browning machine guns
Up to 1,000 lb (454 kg) of bombs on two underwing hardpoints



 :joystick:

Here is a picture of it:
http://www.airliners.net/photo/USA---Air/North-American-A-36A/1881338/L/
Title: Re: A-36A Apache Attack plane
Post by: danny76 on February 25, 2014, 03:10:15 PM
Would seem.most of the groundwork is in game already, Basically just glue some dive brakes on a Bravo Pony. :)

+1 But after the Beaufighter :old:
Title: Re: A-36A Apache Attack plane
Post by: Arlo on February 25, 2014, 03:11:09 PM
Wow. This seems oddly familiar. Kinda defa vuish.  ;)
Title: Re: A-36A Apache Attack plane
Post by: Panic on February 25, 2014, 03:15:10 PM
Well the Apache had four of its machine guns in the nose and was essentially a P-51A model that had dive brakes and a little but more armor added to it, I definitely think that both the Apache and the Beaufighter would be great additions to the game.  :rock
Title: Re: A-36A Apache Attack plane
Post by: Vudu15 on February 25, 2014, 03:43:39 PM
give us the one with the 20s it saw service and did well for the time. if Im getting an Allison I might as well get cannons.
Title: Re: A-36A Apache Attack plane
Post by: Panic on February 25, 2014, 08:06:15 PM
Yeah that would be even better! Just to balance don't give it tons of ammo, but so much to were you can't do anything. :banana:
Title: Re: A-36A Apache Attack plane
Post by: bustr on February 28, 2014, 06:18:51 PM
Hitech needs something for the future to add into the game after AH3 and the new terrain engine.

It would be a good strategy to have a future track for filling in the stables over the next 3 years to keep the air fans quiet. It's obvious if Hitech doesn't retire, FPS squad action on the ground will become a development focus. Consider Waffle's brain storming session over the new Large airfield object and it's future implications.

Can you not see Hitech finishing the Pony family stable?
Title: Re: A-36A Apache Attack plane
Post by: Panic on February 28, 2014, 06:33:54 PM
Yeah can definitelt see it in the future. :joystick:
Title: Re: A-36A Apache Attack plane
Post by: Karnak on February 28, 2014, 08:46:07 PM
The A-36 and P-51A would both be good additions to AH.

Would seem.most of the groundwork is in game already, Basically just glue some dive brakes on a Bravo Pony. :)
You are aware that the A-36, P-51 and P-51A all had Allison engines whereas the P-51B (and P-51C, P-51D, P-51H and P-51K) all had Merlin engines, yes?

Title: Re: A-36A Apache Attack plane
Post by: Panic on February 28, 2014, 11:58:22 PM
 Would add cool new engine sound for Mustang.
Title: Re: A-36A Apache Attack plane
Post by: BuckShot on March 02, 2014, 11:27:15 AM
Does anyone know why the lower nose guns were removed from the 36/ 51? The only things I can find just say they were removed.
Title: Re: A-36A Apache Attack plane
Post by: Megalodon on March 02, 2014, 01:43:44 PM
Well the Apache had four of its machine guns in the nose and was essentially a P-51A model that had dive brakes and a little but more armor added to it, I definitely think that both the Apache and the Beaufighter would be great additions to the game.  :rock

A-36 ...2 in the nose, 4 in the wings!
(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/A36noseguns.jpg)

P-51 ...4 cannon
(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/P51AAAF.jpg)

 :cheers:
Title: Re: A-36A Apache Attack plane
Post by: Karnak on March 02, 2014, 01:53:23 PM
A-36 ...2 in the nose, 4 in the wings!
(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/A36noseguns.jpg)

P-51 ...4 cannon
(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/P51AAAF.jpg)

 :cheers:
No cannon version needed.
Title: Re: A-36A Apache Attack plane
Post by: Megalodon on March 02, 2014, 01:59:42 PM
No cannon version needed.


Actually no 51A version is needed only difference is the motor between it and the 51B ......

P-51 and A36 nets us 3 count them 3 planes for the price of 2.. and have better armament options than the 51A  :aok   I do think the 51A is cool tho.

 :cheers:
Title: Re: A-36A Apache Attack plane
Post by: Slade on March 02, 2014, 03:37:43 PM
+1
Title: Re: A-36A Apache Attack plane
Post by: colmbo on March 02, 2014, 05:43:14 PM

Actually no 51A version is needed only difference is the motor between it and the 51B ......


Different belly scoop, different engine cowling and different propellor.
Title: Re: A-36A Apache Attack plane
Post by: Megalodon on March 02, 2014, 07:37:01 PM
Different belly scoop, different engine cowling and different propellor.

Same 4x50's and same 2x500 same bird cage

We would get the engine in the P51 and A36 plus better armament options ...4x30's and 4x50 or 4x20mm ...as well as 6x50 and 2x500 with dive brakes.

3 new and different options to the 51B.

Respectively,
Title: Re: A-36A Apache Attack plane
Post by: Karnak on March 02, 2014, 11:58:14 PM
I must argue against the desire to cheese the game with rare 20mm cannon versions of things that in game will massively overshadow the historically common version.  I don't want four 20mm on Spit Vs, I don't want four 20mm on P-51s and I don't want four 20mm on A-20Gs.  The common armament is good enough for the Ki-84 and it ought to be good enough for Spit Vs, Allison Mustangs and A-20Gs.

Now, if a perked loadout system is added, sure, add them as perk options, but without that control mechanism I don't think it would be good for the game.
Title: Re: A-36A Apache Attack plane
Post by: Megalodon on March 04, 2014, 01:54:45 AM
I must argue against the desire to cheese the game with rare 20mm cannon versions of things that in game will massively overshadow the historically common version.  I don't want four 20mm on Spit Vs, I don't want four 20mm on P-51s and I don't want four 20mm on A-20Gs.  




I think lots of folks would enjoy a jaunt in "Betty Jean"  :D
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/stofp51.jpg)
(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/P-5120mmBettyJean.jpg)

pretty Kickrear with an Allison  :aok
(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/P-5120mm2.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v247/cobrahistorian/new%20album/154thTRS001.jpg)

 :cheers:
Title: Re: A-36A Apache Attack plane
Post by: Karnak on March 04, 2014, 01:08:28 PM

I think lots of folks would enjoy a jaunt in "Betty Jean"  :D
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/stofp51.jpg)
(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/P-5120mmBettyJean.jpg)

pretty Kickrear with an Allison  :aok
(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/P-5120mm2.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v247/cobrahistorian/new%20album/154thTRS001.jpg)

 :cheers:
Many people would enjoy blasting WWII fighters from an F-22 as well.  That doesn't make it a good idea.
Title: Re: A-36A Apache Attack plane
Post by: BuckShot on March 04, 2014, 01:18:39 PM
Would the typhoon still be better than an a-36 with 4 20mm? if so, why not have the cannon version?
Title: Re: A-36A Apache Attack plane
Post by: Ack-Ack on March 04, 2014, 01:42:19 PM
Would the typhoon still be better than an a-36 with 4 20mm? if so, why not have the cannon version?

A-36 didn't have cannons.

ack-ack
Title: Re: A-36A Apache Attack plane
Post by: Panic on March 04, 2014, 01:51:43 PM
Some versions did.
Title: Re: A-36A Apache Attack plane
Post by: Sunka on March 04, 2014, 02:38:20 PM
Great BIG YES! Should have been added long ago,give us a pony that has to stay and fight!

+ 1
Title: Re: A-36A Apache Attack plane
Post by: Ack-Ack on March 04, 2014, 03:01:25 PM
Some versions did.

Survey says...
(http://philly.barstoolsports.com/files/2012/11/family-feud-x2.png)

The A-36A (the only version produced) carried 6x .50 caliber machine guns, two in the upper nose and 4 in the wings.

ack-ack
Title: Re: A-36A Apache Attack plane
Post by: Widewing on March 04, 2014, 04:06:02 PM
Only the Mustang Mk.Ia had cannons. 54 of the number built were retained by the USAAF. Two of these served as the airframes for the XP-51B conversion.

P-51A serving with the 1st Air Commando Group in China....
(https://scontent-b-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/t1/1797442_609389975798414_839443876_n.jpg)

Mustang Mk.I with chin guns.
(https://scontent-a-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/t1/1922445_1423723187871357_483023491_n.jpg)

Mustang Mk.1a with four Hispanos
(http://www.cybermodeler.com/special/images/mustang_01.jpg)

P-51 (no letter designation applied). 54 retained by USAAF.
(http://www.sidiros.com/Images/Mustang/ac21uo5.jpg)

Mustang Mk.II, chin guns deleted (very similar to P-51A).
(http://www.raf.mod.uk/rafcms/mediafiles/FF5E62DF_5056_A318_A86CA717041A3E11.jpg)

A-36A. Same gun installation as Mustang Mk.I, with dive flaps added.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/81/A-36_%22Apache%22_of_the_27th_Fighter_Bomber_Group.jpg)

XP-51B-2 (second of two converted to Merlin).
(http://www.mediafire.com/convkey/e11a/ic3iok9070dk31afg.jpg)

Mustang X and XP-51B-1 (first of two converted to Merlin).
(http://www.mediafire.com/convkey/22bf/sdsj10umg0i9z50fg.jpg)

One of two XP-51Ds, converted from P-51B airframes. Bob Chilton at the controls.
(http://www.mediafire.com/convkey/7627/ci6jxj9uh2b1l6kfg.jpg)
Title: Re: A-36A Apache Attack plane
Post by: Widewing on March 04, 2014, 04:16:55 PM
When very well maintained, the P-51A was pretty sporty down low....

(http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/mustang/P-51A-1-43-6007-Chart-1400.jpg)
Title: Re: A-36A Apache Attack plane
Post by: Ack-Ack on March 04, 2014, 04:20:10 PM
When very well maintained, the P-51A was pretty sporty down low....

(http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/mustang/P-51A-1-43-6007-Chart-1400.jpg)

Didn't trial the USAAF conduct with the P-51A state that it was the best low altitude fighter in USAAF inventory?

ack-ack
Title: Re: A-36A Apache Attack plane
Post by: Widewing on March 04, 2014, 06:36:00 PM
Didn't trial the USAAF conduct with the P-51A state that it was the best low altitude fighter in USAAF inventory?

ack-ack

At the time of the test (mid 1942, I think), yes.
Title: Re: A-36A Apache Attack plane
Post by: Widewing on March 04, 2014, 07:35:11 PM
British testing of the Mustang MK.II (similar to P-51A) with F4R engine also shows pretty impressive performance at low to medium altitudes. This thing would be faster than our P-51D down low, faster than the 190D too. Looks like a dead heat with the La-7 from sea level to 8,000 feet. With the F20R engine, 409 mph at 10,000 feet is mighty fast for a mid 1942 fighter. Being 1,200 lb lighter than the P-51B (full internal fuel and ammo), it should turn much better. As the chart below shows, the P-51A would be very competitive in the Late War arena, and may dominate in the Mid War arena.

(http://www.mediafire.com/convkey/7d9f/8xj2jvm9b9ya9a4fg.jpg)

Based upon this....

(http://www.spitfireperformance.com/mustang/fr893-level.jpg)
Title: Re: A-36A Apache Attack plane
Post by: Sunka on March 04, 2014, 08:23:05 PM
As the chart below shows, the P-51A would be very competitive in the Late War arena, and may dominate in the Mid War arena.
....

(http://www.spitfireperformance.com/mustang/fr893-level.jpg)
Not just dominate in kills,but in actual fighting ability.
Makes my mouth water to think of seeing a p51A thought of as a "real dogfighters" bird.
Title: Re: A-36A Apache Attack plane
Post by: hotcoffe on March 05, 2014, 04:35:55 AM
+1
Title: Re: A-36A Apache Attack plane
Post by: Sunka on March 05, 2014, 08:33:14 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAPqoC3_hqA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mgqoBRXph4


 :aok    :airplane:
Title: Re: A-36A Apache Attack plane
Post by: Widewing on March 05, 2014, 09:48:57 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAPqoC3_hqA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mgqoBRXph4


 :aok    :airplane:

In the first video, the narrator repeatedly used the Birtish "strahfed" rather than the American, "strayfed" pronunciation. I was amused, considering he wasn't British... Another thing you wouldn't see anywhere else were the tracers from the chin guns. Most A-36 pilots preferred the tracers loaded in the chin guns due to being close to aircraft centerline location.

Here's a great war time video of Mustang Mk.I and Mk.IIs in action....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usqV_zUpGCs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usqV_zUpGCs)

Here's a short film of the 1st Air Commando P-51As. Originally silent 8mm film, sound was added later. Unfortunately, the engine sounds are from Merlin powered P-51s...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HZ4Jkl3jQQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HZ4Jkl3jQQ)
Title: Re: A-36A Apache Attack plane
Post by: Sunka on March 05, 2014, 09:51:54 AM
In the first video, the narrator repeatedly used the Birtish "strahfed" rather than the American, "strayfed" pronunciation. I was amused, considering he wasn't British... Another thing you wouldn't see anywhere else were the tracers from the chin guns. Most A-36 pilots preferred the tracers loaded in the chin guns due to being close to aircraft centerline location.

Here's a great war time video of Mustang Mk.I and Mk.IIs in action....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usqV_zUpGCs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usqV_zUpGCs)

Very cool,i cant believe this was not one of the first planes in AH plane set.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: A-36A Apache Attack plane
Post by: BnZs on March 05, 2014, 10:27:57 AM
Nice charts Wide, but I wouldn't bet much money on AH getting a USAAF plane, much less one with the "Mustang" moniker, with this kind of performance.
Title: Re: A-36A Apache Attack plane
Post by: Widewing on March 05, 2014, 10:34:20 AM
We are fortunate that some P-51A and A-36 fighters have been saved and restored...

(https://scontent-b-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/t31/1966106_673375926042229_674361765_o.jpg)

(http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/photos/5/8/4/1060485.jpg)

(http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/photos/0/5/4/1245450.jpg)

(http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/photos/1/9/1/2160191.jpg)

(http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm275/sylvancatharsis/IMG_1650-1.jpg)
Title: Re: A-36A Apache Attack plane
Post by: danny76 on March 05, 2014, 12:03:15 PM
i always thought it was pronounced "strayfed" and not "strahfed" and I am English :old:
Title: Re: A-36A Apache Attack plane
Post by: Sunka on March 05, 2014, 12:25:08 PM
Nice charts Wide, but I wouldn't bet much money on AH getting a USAAF plane, much less one with the "Mustang" moniker, with this kind of performance.
Whats with the negative vibes chum?  :cool:
Title: Re: A-36A Apache Attack plane
Post by: Widewing on March 05, 2014, 01:25:12 PM
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/t31/1898685_10152032223823790_1486794734_o.jpg)

(https://scontent-a-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/t31/1965596_10152032222943790_2118057234_o.jpg)

(https://scontent-a-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/t31/1836620_10151994213188790_1131251511_o.jpg)

Title: Re: A-36A Apache Attack plane
Post by: BnZs on March 05, 2014, 01:28:23 PM
Whats with the negative vibes chum?  :cool:

It's basically La7 performance given to a Mustang. Of course our mouths are watering, but can you imagine the whines and the numbers of them that would horde the MA? It will not appear.
Title: Re: A-36A Apache Attack plane
Post by: Arlo on March 05, 2014, 01:30:01 PM
It will not appear.

I think it has better odds than a French plane.  :D
Title: Re: A-36A Apache Attack plane
Post by: BnZs on March 05, 2014, 01:41:40 PM
I think it has better odds than a French plane.  :D

Not even a French plane from the Great War apparently...
Title: Re: A-36A Apache Attack plane
Post by: Sunka on March 05, 2014, 02:18:17 PM
It's basically La7 performance given to a Mustang. Of course our mouths are watering, but can you imagine the whines and the numbers of them that would horde the MA? It will not appear.
So are we saying Hitech would not add a plane because it was "to good" ?
Title: Re: A-36A Apache Attack plane
Post by: Ack-Ack on March 05, 2014, 02:29:34 PM
I hope that we'll eventually see the A-36 and one of the other Allison engined Mustangs but we still have some existing planes that need to be brought up to the current graphic standards and other holes to fill in the plane set.

ack-ack
Title: Re: A-36A Apache Attack plane
Post by: Sunka on March 05, 2014, 02:33:28 PM
I hope that we'll eventually see the A-36 and one of the other Allison engined Mustangs but we still have some existing planes that need to be brought up to the current graphic standards.

ack-ack
In this case NO other planes should be put out till they update all the out dated models then.
But seems the First p51 should have been one of the first planes HTC added ,for many many reasons.
Title: Re: A-36A Apache Attack plane
Post by: Zoney on March 05, 2014, 02:37:10 PM
So are we saying Hitech would not add a plane because it was "to good" ?

You might say that but I certainly wouldn't.  I would say "too good".
Title: Re: A-36A Apache Attack plane
Post by: Sunka on March 05, 2014, 03:13:19 PM
You might say that but I certainly wouldn't.  I would say "too good".
Im not saying anything,i was asking a question.  :neener:

I have high hopes it will be added pretty soon.
 :airplane:
Title: Re: A-36A Apache Attack plane
Post by: Ack-Ack on March 05, 2014, 04:14:00 PM
You might say that but I certainly wouldn't.  I would say "too good".

I don't think a plane that is considered to be 'too good' would be eliminated from consideration to be added to the game.  If that was the case, we'd never have gotten the P-38.

ack-ack
Title: Re: A-36A Apache Attack plane
Post by: Widewing on March 05, 2014, 05:20:57 PM
I hope that we'll eventually see the A-36 and one of the other Allison engined Mustangs but we still have some existing planes that need to be brought up to the current graphic standards and other holes to fill in the plane set.

ack-ack

Indeed.... Ki-61, F4F/FM2, Tempest, A-20/Boston, D3a, B5N2, and SBD-5 all need graphics updates.

However, most of the large holes in the plane set have been addressed. Now, I hope, we'll start to see the smaller holes addressed.

From the Ki-61, adding the Ki-100 would be a smaller effort. From the P-51B, adding the P-51A would be a smaller effort. From the P-38G, the P-38H would require only skins and revised flight model. Adding the F6F-3 (using the current F6F-5 flight model) and revising the F6F-5 to match test data. From the Ju 88, the Ju 188. The Seafire Mk.III would be less effort that from scratch. Likewise, the unloved and unused Mk.Vb should be supplemented with the Mk.Vc (which we had previously). Meteor, Beaufighter and A-26 would all be popular.

I don't expect the P-51A anytime soon, but I believe it'll be added eventually.
Title: Re: A-36A Apache Attack plane
Post by: Widewing on March 05, 2014, 07:53:48 PM
I read this today in a Technical volume on the P-51...

"A USAAF study of British Mustang I ground attack operations noted: "This aircraft is powered by the Allison 1710-39 engine having a rated power of 1150 H.P. at 3000 R.P.M. and 44 inches Hg. at 12,000 ft. The engine was originally equipped with an automatic boost control limiting the manifold pressure at the lower altitudes to 44 inches. The British remove this so as to get the vastly increased performance at lower altitudes thru the judicious use of over-boost. As has been mentioned before, they have had exceptionally good service out of these engines and due to its smoothness at low RPM's, they are able to operate it so as to obtain a remarkably low fuel consumption giving them an operational range greater than any single engine fighter they possess (the fact that the Merlin engine will not run well below 1600 R.P.M. prevents them from obtaining an equivalent low fuel consumption and therefore limits its usefulness for similar operations). The British experience with ground-attack Allison-engined Mustangs prompted this testimonial to the V-1710 in a 1943 USAAF study: "The British have operated at full throttle at sea level (72 inches Hg.) for as much as 20 min. at a time without hurting the engines. According to them, the Allison is averaging 1500 hours between bearing failures as compared to 500 to 600 hrs for the Merlin. The Allison, they have found, will drag them home even with the bearings ruined.'"
Title: Re: A-36A Apache Attack plane
Post by: mechanic on March 05, 2014, 09:01:22 PM
i always thought it was pronounced "strayfed" and not "strahfed" and I am English :old:

I was thinking the same Danny.
Title: Re: A-36A Apache Attack plane
Post by: trap78 on March 06, 2014, 09:28:24 AM
+100 to adding the A-36A  :aok
Title: Re: A-36A Apache Attack plane
Post by: matt on March 06, 2014, 10:03:40 AM
+1