Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Randy1 on February 26, 2014, 12:05:24 PM

Title: P38L Top Speed
Post by: Randy1 on February 26, 2014, 12:05:24 PM
Increase an unpainted P38L's top speed by 8 MPH due to a reduction in skin drag and therefore the drag coefficient

http://www.defensemedianetwork.com/stories/the-u-s-army-air-forces-strips-its-planes-of-paint/

Actually the speed could be slightly higher since the area of the P38 is larger than the implied P51B test plane.

The unpainted weight reduction is a wash since I found suggestions that the frame on the L was beefed up to carry larger bombs than the "J" although I can't confirm that.
Title: Re: P38L Top Speed
Post by: Ack-Ack on February 26, 2014, 12:27:52 PM
Increase an unpainted P38L's top speed by 8 MPH due to a reduction in skin drag and therefore the drag coefficient

http://www.defensemedianetwork.com/stories/the-u-s-army-air-forces-strips-its-planes-of-paint/

Actually the speed could be slightly higher since the area of the P38 is larger than the implied P51B test plane.

The unpainted weight reduction is a wash since I found suggestions that the frame on the L was beefed up to carry larger bombs than the "J" although I can't confirm that.


There was nothing in that article that said the P-38L's speed was increased by 8mph, nor anything about the P-38L being able to take a heavier ordnance load than the J due to being unpainted.

ack-ack
Title: Re: P38L Top Speed
Post by: ONTOS on February 26, 2014, 12:37:05 PM
Paint adds weight to anthing painted. The B-24, et al, really adds weight.
Title: Re: P38L Top Speed
Post by: Randy1 on February 26, 2014, 03:03:56 PM
There was nothing in that article that said the P-38L's speed was increased by 8mph, nor anything about the P-38L being able to take a heavier ordnance load than the J due to being unpainted.

ack-ack

Best I can tell is the mustang was the bases for the test to qualify any performance increase of unpainted aircraft in general.  The air Force paints specs were changed.   Skin drag of a painted equates plane to plane if the paint specs are the same albeit the area drag is different.

My note on the weight was just an added bit of info.  The weight difference must have been small between a painted pref lap mod J and an unpainted L.
Title: Re: P38L Top Speed
Post by: Plazus on February 26, 2014, 06:25:27 PM
Randy1,

If HTC were to simulate the adverse effects of applying paint to an aircraft, then all of the players would be inclined to fly only bare metal skins on airplanes (if available) in AH. Now that wouldn't be fun, would it? Everyone would fly that bare metal paint scheme to get the best performance. There wouldn't be that added diversity of representing different historical fighter groups.

Part of what makes this game stand out is the fact that their players make contributions by skinning aircraft for others in the community to use.
Title: Re: P38L Top Speed
Post by: ReVo on February 26, 2014, 10:28:08 PM
Randy1,

If HTC were to simulate the adverse effects of applying paint to an aircraft, then all of the players would be inclined to fly only bare metal skins on airplanes (if available) in AH. Now that wouldn't be fun, would it? Everyone would fly that bare metal paint scheme to get the best performance. There wouldn't be that added diversity of representing different historical fighter groups.

Part of what makes this game stand out is the fact that their players make contributions by skinning aircraft for others in the community to use.

^What he said, which is what I said in the other thread about this. -100
Title: Re: P38L Top Speed
Post by: earl1937 on February 27, 2014, 08:34:47 AM
Increase an unpainted P38L's top speed by 8 MPH due to a reduction in skin drag and therefore the drag coefficient

http://www.defensemedianetwork.com/stories/the-u-s-army-air-forces-strips-its-planes-of-paint/

Actually the speed could be slightly higher since the area of the P38 is larger than the implied P51B test plane.

The unpainted weight reduction is a wash since I found suggestions that the frame on the L was beefed up to carry larger bombs than the "J" although I can't confirm that.

:airplane: Just for giggles, google weight of paint on a Boeing 747, it'll knock your socks off! I know paint adds a lot of weight, but jezz!
Title: Re: P38L Top Speed
Post by: icepac on February 28, 2014, 11:43:49 AM
Anybody notice that most all of the reno racers are fully painted?
Title: Re: P38L Top Speed
Post by: Randy1 on February 28, 2014, 12:02:16 PM
The mil thickness and weight per gallon are way less than WW2.  I think it is like 5 pounds vs 30 pounds.

An Air Force test showed a painted, sanded and waxed B17 flies faster than a plain, unpainted, unpolished plane.
Title: Re: P38L Top Speed
Post by: nrshida on February 28, 2014, 12:17:40 PM
If you need another 8 m.p.h. to fly the P-38L well aren't you, err, sort of, doing it wrong?  :old:

Title: Re: P38L Top Speed
Post by: Randy1 on February 28, 2014, 03:40:16 PM
If you need another 8 m.p.h. to fly the P-38L well aren't you, err, sort of, doing it wrong?  :old:



Just asking for what should be.  Nothing more.  Nothing less.
Title: Re: P38L Top Speed
Post by: nrshida on February 28, 2014, 03:42:29 PM
Just asking for what should be.  Nothing more.  Nothing less.

I don't believe you've established it should be 8 m.p.h. faster.

Title: Re: P38L Top Speed
Post by: ReVo on February 28, 2014, 04:55:46 PM
I don't believe you've established it should be 8 m.p.h. faster.



Shh, Shida. If we can convince HTC that he's right we can claim the Ki-84 and Ki-61 bare metal skins deserve a decent speed bump too.  :noid
Title: Re: P38L Top Speed
Post by: Ack-Ack on February 28, 2014, 06:27:07 PM
Shh, Shida. If we can convince HTC that he's right we can claim the Ki-84 and Ki-61 bare metal skins deserve a decent speed bump too.  :noid

Then that means the bare metal P-38J I fly should also get a speed bump.   :aok

ack-ack
Title: Re: P38L Top Speed
Post by: ReVo on February 28, 2014, 06:39:20 PM
Then that means the bare metal P-38J I fly should also get a speed bump.   :aok

ack-ack

No, you're plenty fast enough already.  :noid
Title: Re: P38L Top Speed
Post by: Ack-Ack on February 28, 2014, 07:26:06 PM
No, you're plenty fast enough already.  :noid

Only after I eat Mexican food and use the gas as added thrust.  Hey, maybe we can get that modeled?

ack-ack
Title: Re: P38L Top Speed
Post by: FLS on February 28, 2014, 09:28:43 PM
Increase an unpainted P38L's top speed by 8 MPH due to a reduction in skin drag and therefore the drag coefficient

http://www.defensemedianetwork.com/stories/the-u-s-army-air-forces-strips-its-planes-of-paint/

Actually the speed could be slightly higher since the area of the P38 is larger than the implied P51B test plane.

The unpainted weight reduction is a wash since I found suggestions that the frame on the L was beefed up to carry larger bombs than the "J" although I can't confirm that.


You misread the article. Only polished aircraft, regardless of paint, show reduced drag from skin friction. You are also assuming that top speeds in game are from unpolished aircraft.
Title: Re: P38L Top Speed
Post by: nrshida on March 01, 2014, 03:00:00 AM
Shh, Shida. If we can convince HTC that he's right we can claim the Ki-84 and Ki-61 bare metal skins deserve a decent speed bump too.  :noid

I think there's too much speed and not enough fight in the MA already  :old:
Title: Re: P38L Top Speed
Post by: ReVo on March 01, 2014, 05:43:16 AM
I think there's too much speed and not enough fight in the MA already  :old:


..Fair point.  :salute
Title: Re: P38L Top Speed
Post by: Randy1 on March 01, 2014, 06:01:40 AM
Then that means the bare metal P-38J I fly should also get a speed bump.   :aok

ack-ack

Default skin model.

Title: Re: P38L Top Speed
Post by: BnZs on March 01, 2014, 10:08:14 AM
Anybody notice that most all of the reno racers are fully painted?

Indeed, no doubt with perfectly smoothed paint jobs in good condition and waxed to perfection. Probably easier to keep bare metal slick under service conditions. Still no to the OP's wish though.
Title: Re: P38L Top Speed
Post by: icepac on March 01, 2014, 11:53:57 AM
The mil thickness and weight per gallon are way less than WW2.  I think it is like 5 pounds vs 30 pounds.

An Air Force test showed a painted, sanded and waxed B17 flies faster than a plain, unpainted, unpolished plane.

Dago Red and Voodoo had up to 30 gallons of bondo on them and one had 11 layers of different paint jobs.