Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Motherland on March 03, 2014, 05:39:31 PM
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This doesn't seem to be any North Korean saber rattling
Or invasion of "irrelevant" Caucasian countries (sorry to marginalize Georgia but obviously it didn't come to anything)
This is
A real international crisis
Between two large relevant countries
The gravity of which have not been seen since...?
The dissolution of Yugoslavia?
Or worse?
Who's in the right? Who's in the wrong? As usual Eastern Europe is blurry and impossible to pin down.
(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/73301000/jpg/_73301095_021346457-1.jpg)
(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/73303000/jpg/_73303563_73303562.jpg)
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Send in Team America World Police
Free the sh*t out of them all
:rock
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Send in Team America World Police
Free the sh*t out of them all
Or the A-Team.
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This doesn't seem to be any North Korean saber rattling
Or invasion of irrelevant Caucasian countries
This is
A real international crisis
Between two large relevant countries
The gravity of which have not been seen since...?
The dissolution of Yugoslavia?
Or worse?
Who's in the right? Who's in the wrong? As usual Eastern Europe is blurry and impossible to pin down.
(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/73301000/jpg/_73301095_021346457-1.jpg)
(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/73303000/jpg/_73303563_73303562.jpg)
Yeah this is serious stuff Motherland. I hope they can find a peaceful resolution.
As far as who is right.. You nailed it, it is impossible to figure out.
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Worrisome stuff over there :aok
:cheers: Oz
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As bad as I feel for those folks... I hope we keep our noses outta this one... We're still paying for the last one.
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I don't think there is a significant amount of crude oil located under the Ukraine. So the United States and NATO will keep out of it.
Now if Iraq decides to invade Kuwait again ..... well ....... there might be a response from the stars n stripes then. :old:
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The Ukrainian people will be thrown under the bus for the sake of peace.
Hello Czechoslovakia 1939.
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Or the A-Team.
No way, the A-Team have like...reverse auto-aim or something. No matter how much they shoot they never hit anything! :D
As bad as I feel for those folks... I hope we keep our noses outta this one... We're still paying for the last one.
What the hell is wrong with you? Do you hate freedom or something? You want the terrorists to win?
(http://www.tribalwar.com/forums/images/smilies/flag.gif) These colors don't run
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Well, I'm off to Antarctica. Enjoy the Thermonuclear War, I'm gonna go belly-slide with some penguins.
All seriousness, This is a rising problem. Let's just hope things don't get sour, or it will be the cold war all over again.
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What the hell is wrong with you? Do you hate freedom or something? You want the terrorists to win?
(http://www.tribalwar.com/forums/images/smilies/flag.gif) These colors don't run
We must understand that Russia will not let us go without an arse whooping if war breaks out. And vice versa.
I hope we don't get involved.
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Or the A-Team.
Better yet!
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26232318/eh-team.jpg)
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No way, the A-Team have like...reverse auto-aim or something. No matter how much they shoot they never hit anything! :D
Think about it for a second, man: The A-Team is on the run from the law for crimes they didn't commit. If they were to go around ACTUALLY shooting and killing people they'd just be adding murder or manslaughter charges that they'll have to deal with when they finally clear their names.
It's not that they can't hit anything, it's that they're DELIBERATELY MISSING.
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I don't think there is a significant amount of crude oil located under the Ukraine. So the United States and NATO will keep out of it.
Now if Iraq decides to invade Kuwait again ..... well ....... there might be a response from the stars n stripes then. :old:
[sarcasm] No there is absolutely no oil or gas in Ukraine. Especially close to the Russian border... [/sarcasm]
http://ukrainian-energy.com/en/oil_gas_map
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The Ukrainian people will be thrown under the bus for the sake of peace.
Hello Czechoslovakia 1939.
I don't know if it's that simple,
As contemptible as the most recent regime has been, the reality of the situation is that when current Ukrainian state broke off from the USSR, they claimed a lot of areas that were majority Russian, and the people in those territories weren't all that pleased with it. Crimea has had a strong secessionist movement since 1991, and this has been reflected in special autonomy granted to Crimea and special status granted to Russian as a majority language.
When the Euromaidan protestors deposed Yanukovich, they may have gotten rid of what to the world looked like a corrupt ruler, but an elected one none the less, and one who many Russians in Ukraine, especially in the east and Crimea, felt was standing up for their rights. In attempts to distance itself from Russia and become closer to the EU, the current government has abolished laws just in the past few days which granted Russian special minority language status. On top of that, there actually have been clashes between pro-Russian and pro-European Ukrainians, especially in the east.
Ukraine is certainly not completely in the right here. A large portion of Crimeans do actually want to be part of Russia. 70%+ of Crimeans and 90% of those in Sevastopol speak primarily Russian.
While this is almost certainly just serving as an excuse for Putin to grab strategically important land in the Black Sea, the will of these citizens is still relevant.
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We must understand that Russia will not let us go without an arse whooping if war breaks out. And vice versa.
So you think that if we're going to get involved with conflicts that have nothing to do with us, we should only do it when there is something for us to gain from it, and the other side can't do anything to really harm us?
That is the kind of sound strategic thinking that I can get behind :salute
Think about it for a second, man: The A-Team is on the run from the law for crimes they didn't commit. If they were to go around ACTUALLY shooting and killing people they'd just be adding murder or manslaughter charges that they'll have to deal with when they finally clear their names.
It's not that they can't hit anything, it's that they're DELIBERATELY MISSING.
OMG! :) It all makes sense now! :old: Thank you!
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What the hell is wrong with you? Do you hate freedom or something? You want the terrorists to win?
(http://www.tribalwar.com/forums/images/smilies/flag.gif) These colors don't run
'Murica, Fock Yeah. :rock
I just don't want my grandkids to be paying for a war that started nearly fifteen years ago. I can't take my cig lighter on an airplane. Terrorists already won. :old:
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'Murica, Fock Yeah. :rock
I just don't want my grandkids to be paying for a war that started nearly fifteen years ago. I can't take my cig lighter on an airplane. Terrorists already won. :old:
I should open a Kiosk in my local airport that sells nothing but disposable lighters and matches. (At ten bucks a pop)
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As bad as I feel for those folks... I hope we keep our noses outta this one... We're still paying for the last one.
Too late for that.
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The Ukrainian people will be thrown under the bus for the sake of peace.
Hello Czechoslovakia 1939.
You'd better not do that, or else.
Putin: Yeah . . . well, we just did that. Now what are you going to do about it?
Uh . . . [mumble]
Putin: What's that? Speak up.
Uh . . . nothing, I guess.
Putin: That's right. You'll do nothing.
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I should open a Kiosk in my local airport that sells nothing but disposable lighters and matches. (At ten bucks a pop)
You'd make a killing... Hell, I'd be your first customer.
Too late for that.
I imagine so. At least DC has fallout shelters.. :D
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The Ukrainian people will be thrown under the bus for the sake of peace.
Hello Czechoslovakia 1939.
Exactly.
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(http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb180/ralphmunnich/putin.jpg) (http://s205.photobucket.com/user/ralphmunnich/media/putin.jpg.html)
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Its the crimea. Russia, for the last few hundred years, thinks having a black sea fleet is kinda important and crimeans are russians who seem to want to be russians more than they want to be ukranians.. So this one sort of solves itself. Russia isnt going to give up her black sea navy so, yeah, get real.
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I don't know if it's that simple,
As contemptible as the most recent regime has been, the reality of the situation is that when current Ukrainian state broke off from the USSR, they claimed a lot of areas that were majority Russian, and the people in those territories weren't all that pleased with it. Crimea has had a strong secessionist movement since 1991, and this has been reflected in special autonomy granted to Crimea and special status granted to Russian as a majority language.
When the Euromaidan protestors deposed Yanukovich, they may have gotten rid of what to the world looked like a corrupt ruler, but an elected one none the less, and one who many Russians in Ukraine, especially in the east and Crimea, felt was standing up for their rights. In attempts to distance itself from Russia and become closer to the EU, the current government has abolished laws just in the past few days which granted Russian special minority language status. On top of that, there actually have been clashes between pro-Russian and pro-European Ukrainians, especially in the east.
Ukraine is certainly not completely in the right here. A large portion of Crimeans do actually want to be part of Russia. 70%+ of Crimeans and 90% of those in Sevastopol speak primarily Russian.
While this is almost certainly just serving as an excuse for Putin to grab strategically important land in the Black Sea, the will of these citizens is still relevant.
Ours or theirs?
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[sarcasm] No there is absolutely no oil or gas in Ukraine. Especially close to the Russian border... [/sarcasm]
http://ukrainian-energy.com/en/oil_gas_map
Gimme the important figures like how much is exported to the U.S.
That's still what matter's most. History proves it and the current situation reenforces it.
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Ours or theirs?
everyone's
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The Ukrainian people will be thrown under the bus for the sake of peace.
Hello Czechoslovakia 1939.
Yep. The Ukraine is in the unenviable position that Poland was in prior to world war 2. They are the buffer zone between east and west. Divided along racial and historical lines...if Russia so deems...they will suffer...and suffer badly...while the west looks on. What the heck is the US going to do about Russia occupying the Crimea or all of the greater Ukraine for that matter? Nothing. Start WWIII over it. No way in hades...unless insanity prevails.
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Gimme the important figures like how much is exported to the U.S.
That's still what matter's most. History proves it and the current situation reenforces it.
Irrelevant. The US imports oil mostly from Latin America and Canada. However, the price of oil is global so a crisis in any oil producing country will increase oil prices everywhere. If oil production in Ukraine gets disrupted the price of oil produced in Texas will increase.
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Irrelevant. The US imports oil mostly from Latin America and Canada. However, the price of oil is global so a crisis in any oil producing country will increase oil prices everywhere. If oil production in Ukraine gets disrupted the price of oil produced in Texas will increase.
That is correct.
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Irrelevant. The US imports oil mostly from Latin America and Canada. However, the price of oil is global so a crisis in any oil producing country will increase oil prices everywhere. If oil production in Ukraine gets disrupted the price of oil produced in Texas will increase.
And all goods and services where oil is required as an input directly/indirectly.
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(http://i690.photobucket.com/albums/vv266/Plawranc/roflbot_zps87391a27.jpg)
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The Ukrainian people will be thrown under the bus for the sake of peace.
Hello Czechoslovakia 1939.
Sad but very true Del.......
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I can't take my cig lighter on an airplane. Terrorists already won.
so true right there, and you get basically strip searched when you go through security, flying through airliners sucks now, but understandable........ kind of, wont get any further into that one. But I have to agree I hope we keep out of this one, heck my 4 year old daughter will be paying for afghanistan war :mad: :bhead
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We don't need to be involved. We as a nation can't afford to plop into war after we're trying to put an end to one that has lasted 13 years.
I'm also quite sure that none of us feel like starting another World War.
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We don't need to be involved. We as a nation can't afford to plop into war after we're trying to put an end to one that has lasted 13 years.
I'm also quite sure that none of us feel like starting another World War.
I could go for another World War. It's about time.
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Spot on, Del. I don't think this will disappear off the radar like Syria did.
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History shows this land has been fought over for years, Ages, forever. Last check it was a russian puppet state. From the looks of it now, it was a russian puppet state. This translates to do you want to fight the russians over land they claim. Lets recall so past wars when we tried to control land on the Reds door step. Not good for america to be poking the bear.
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I could go for another World War. It's about time.
Or you could just kill yourself if thats what you wish and spare the rest of us the trouble of WW3.
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We don't need to be involved. We as a nation can't afford to plop into war after we're trying to put an end to one that has lasted 13 years.
I'm also quite sure that none of us feel like starting another World War.
continuing Deliriums' 1939 reference - World War will start without your involvement - either anyway or beacause the involvement is not there when it is needed
to Motherland:
it is not that simple, but not to be overcomplicated as well. Ukraine was ( I hope - was ) police/criminal state by its nature. The clashes are about coming (needed) changes to the way of life, rather than Ukrainians against Russians conflict. De facto unexisting "conflict" is exploited by Putin's propoganda, and quite effective - reaches USA - as far as I see.
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Fact, Ukraine is the 2nd largest grain producer in the world. Control Crimea and you control that export. In fact the crisis is already increasing the price of food and oil and gas in the world markets. A thing the Russians stand to gain from. It tightens further the screws they already have over western Europe.
And they do it cheaply to. Some third rate troops backed by a 4th rate little fleet.
This one is about "food". Very important piece of real estate it is.
(http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr149/Rich46yo/political-map-of-Ukraine_zps1b011f25.gif)
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All the foregoing said, there WON'T be a war over this. Why? Because nobody's going to be foolish enough to take on Bad Mother Russia in their own back yard. This is the other side of Peace through Strength, for most Americans. As for NATO, to the extent it isn't US is also the extent to which it hasn't fired a weapon in anger for three generations now.
Still, the dream of Panzers streaming east is compelling and a bit romantic - but anyone with the yarbles to do it died or was reducated long, long ago.
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The Ukrainian people will be thrown under the bus for the sake of peace.
Hello Czechoslovakia 1939.
Yup.
The European mainland needs energy. Russia provides said energy. The "pragmatists" within NATO realize this (witness the Germans reaction after Putin's last little party in Georgia) and won't do more than make some noise. Our current Commander-In-Chief prides himself in being a diplomatic "pragmatist" as well and so will push them under the bus so he can go back to creating his domestic legacy here in the US. Thus the Ukraine is done.
Don't be surprised when Iran, China, North Korea and some of our lovely friends down in South America start making moves of their own. Media isn't paying much attention to China's recent saber rattling with Japan. The Iranian deal was and is a joke meant to further humiliate the US in general and Administration in particular. Weakness (real or perceived) sends a message to everyone, friend and foe...it's party time.
It will take years to undo the damage done by this administration's foreign policy...assuming it can be undone and things don't escalate further on the world stage. I'm thinking they will.
I'll stop before it gets any more political...it's difficult to have this discussion without going down the verboten path.
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Fact, Ukraine is the 2nd largest grain producer in the world. Control Crimea and you control that export. In fact the crisis is already increasing the price of food and oil and gas in the world markets. A thing the Russians stand to gain from. It tightens further the screws they already have over western Europe.
And they do it cheaply to. Some third rate troops backed by a 4th rate little fleet.
This one is about "food". Very important piece of real estate it is.
(http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr149/Rich46yo/political-map-of-Ukraine_zps1b011f25.gif)
The Chinese also buy around 30% of their grain.
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Yup.
The European mainland needs energy. Russia provides said energy. The "pragmatists" within NATO realize this (witness the Germans reaction after Putin's last little party in Georgia) and won't do more than make some noise. Our current Commander-In-Chief prides himself in being a diplomatic "pragmatist" as well and so will push them under the bus so he can go back to creating his domestic legacy here in the US. Thus the Ukraine is done.
Don't be surprised when Iran, China, North Korea and some of our lovely friends down in South America start making moves of their own. Media isn't paying much attention to China's recent saber rattling with Japan. The Iranian deal was and is a joke meant to further humiliate the US in general and Administration in particular. Weakness (real or perceived) sends a message to everyone, friend and foe...it's party time.
It will take years to undo the damage done by this administration's foreign policy...assuming it can be undone and things don't escalate further on the world stage. I'm thinking they will.
I'll stop before it gets any more political...it's difficult to have this discussion without going down the verboten path.
Suffice it to say, the elephant on the couch is apparent to those who wish to see it. THere is a god-like position that some might assume that says that the appropriate time for leadership has come and gone, that sunset is inevitable. Me, I believe that a good leader knows that he has a dog in the fight. Putin appears to understand this. It's a pity that he operates in an apparent vacuum.
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Locked for multiple violations of forum posting rules #2, #4, #14.