Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Rondar on March 13, 2014, 06:58:04 PM
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Ok, I'll try again :) This is a list I cut and pasted from another forum. My post that got :ahand I just cut and pasted too deep and got a tad of what doesn't go here. There were a lot of people on here that I didn't know that served. Are there others that might be added?
Sterling Hayden, US Marines and OSS. Smuggled guns into Yugoslavia and parachuted into Croatia.
James Stewart, US Army Air Corps. Bomber pilot who rose to the rank of General.
Ernest Borgnine, US Navy. Gunners Mate 1c, destroyer USS Lamberton.
Ed McMahon, US Marines. Fighter Pilot. (Flew OE-1 Bird Dogs over Korea as well.)
Telly Savalas, US Army.
Walter Matthau, US Army Air Corps., B-24 Radioman/Gunner and cryptographer.
Steve Forrest, US Army. Wounded, Battle of the Bulge.
Jonathan Winters, USMC. Battleship USS Wisconsin and Carrier USS Bon Homme Richard. Anti-aircraft gunner, Battle of Okinawa.
Paul Newman, US Navy Rear seat gunner/radioman, torpedo bombers of USS Bunker Hill
Kirk Douglas, US Navy. Sub-chaser in the Pacific. Wounded in action and medically discharged.
Robert Mitchum, US Army.
Dale Robertson, US Army. Tank Commander in North Africa under Patton. Wounded twice. Battlefield Commission.
Henry Fonda, US Navy. Destroyer USS Satterlee.
John Carroll, US Army Air Corps. Pilot in North Africa. Broke his back in a crash.
Lee Marvin US Marines. Sniper. Wounded in action on Saipan. Buried in Arlington National Cemetery, Sec. 7A next to Greg Boyington and Joe Louis.
Art Carney, US Army. Wounded on Normandy beach, D-Day. Limped for the rest of his life.
Wayne Morris, US Navy fighter pilot, USS Essex. Downed seven Japanese fighters.
Rod Steiger, US Navy. Was aboard one of the ships that launched the Doolittle Raid.
Tony Curtis, US Navy. Sub tender USS Proteus. In Tokyo Bay for the surrender of Japan.
Larry Storch. US Navy. Sub tender USS Proteus with Tony Curtis.
Forrest Tucker, US Army. Enlisted as a private, rose to Lieutenant.
Robert Montgomery, US Navy.
George Kennedy, US Army. Enlisted after Pearl Harbor, stayed in sixteen years.
Mickey Rooney, US Army under Patton. Bronze Star.
Denver Pyle, US Navy. Wounded in the Battle of Guadalcanal. Medically discharged.
Burgess Meredith, US Army Air Corps.
DeForest Kelley, US Army Air Corps.
Robert Stack, US Navy. Gunnery Officer.
Neville Brand, US Army, Europe. Was awarded the Silver Star and Purple Heart.
Tyrone Power, US Marines. Transport pilot in the Pacific Theater.
Charlton Heston, US Army Air Corps. Radio operator and aerial gunner on a B-25, Aleutians.
Danny Aiello, US Army. Lied about his age to enlist at 16. Served three years.
James Arness, US Army. As an infantryman, he was severely wounded at Anzio, Italy.
Efram Zimbalist, Jr., US Army. Purple Heart for a severe wound received at Huertgen Forest.
Mickey Spillane, US Army Air Corps, Fighter Pilot and later Instructor Pilot.
Rod Serling. US Army. 11th Airborne Division in the Pacific. He jumped at Tagaytay in the Philippines and was later wounded in Manila.
Gene Autry, US Army Air Corps. Crewman on transports that ferried supplies over "The Hump" in the China-Burma-India Theater.
Wiliam Holden, US Army Air Corps.
Alan Hale Jr, US Coast Guard.
Harry Dean Stanton, US Navy. Battle of Okinawa.
Russell Johnson, US Army Air Corps. B-24 crewman who was awarded Purple Heart when his aircraft was shot down by the Japanese in the Philippines.
William Conrad, US Army Air Corps. Fighter Pilot.
Jack Klugman, US Army.
Frank Sutton, US Army. Took part in 14 assault landings, including Leyte, Luzon, Bataan and Corregidor.
Jackie Coogan, US Army Air Corps. Volunteered for gliders and flew troops and materials into Burma behind enemy lines.
Tom Bosley, US Navy.
Claude Akins, US Army. Signal Corps., Burma and the Philippines.
Chuck Connors, US Army. Tank-warfare instructor.
Harry Carey Jr., US Navy.
Mel Brooks, US Army. Combat Engineer. Saw action in the Battle of the Bulge.
Robert Altman, US Army Air Corps. B-24 Co-Pilot.
Pat Hingle, US Navy. Destroyer USS Marshall
Fred Gwynne, US Navy. Radioman.
Karl Malden, US Army Air Corps. 8th Air Force, NCO.
Earl Holliman. US Navy. Lied about his age to enlist. Discharged after a year when they Navy found out.
Rock Hudson, US Navy. Aircraft mechanic, the Philippines.
Harvey Korman, US Navy.
Aldo Ray. US Navy. UDT frogman, Okinawa.
Don Knotts, US Army, Pacific Theater.
Don Rickles, US Navy aboard USS Cyrene.
Harry Dean Stanton, US Navy. Served aboard an LST in the Battle of Okinawa.
Robert Stack, US Navy. Gunnery Instructor.
Soupy Sales, US Navy. Served on USS Randall in the South Pacific.
Lee Van Cleef, US Navy. Served aboard a sub chaser then a mine sweeper.
Clifton James, US Army, South Pacific. Was awarded the Silver Star, Bronze Star, and Purple Heart.
Ted Knight, US Army, Combat Engineers.
Jack Warden, US Navy, 1938-1942, then US Army, 1942-1945. 101st Airborne Division.
Don Adams. US Marines. Wounded on Guadalcanal, then served as a Drill Instructor.
James Gregory, US Navy and US Marines.
Brian Keith, US Marines. Radioman/Gunner in Dauntless dive-bombers.
Fess Parker, US Navy and US Marines. Booted from pilot training for being too tall, joined Marines as a radio operator.
Charles Durning. US Army. Landed at Normandy on D-Day. Shot multiple times. Awarded the Silver Star and Bronze Star and three Purple Hearts. Survived Malmedy Massacre.
Raymond Burr, US Navy. Shot in the stomach on Okinawa and medically discharged.
Hugh O'Brian, US Marines.
Robert Ryan, US Marines.
Eddie Albert, US Coast Guard. Bronze Star with Combat V for saving several Marines under heavy fire as pilot of a landing craft during the invasion of Tarawa.
Cark Gable, US Army Air Corps. B-17 gunner over Europe.
Charles Bronson, US Army Air Corps. B-29 gunner, wounded in action.
Peter Graves, US Army Air Corps.
Buddy Hackett, US Army anti-aircraft gunner.
Victor Mature, US Coast Guard.
Jack Palance, US Army Air Corps. Severely injured bailing out of a burning B-24 bomber.
Robert Preston, US Army Air Corps. Intelligence Officer
Cesar Romero, US Coast Guard. Coast Guard. Participated in the invasions of Tinian and Saipan on the assault transport USS Cavalier.
Norman Fell, US Army Air Corps., Tail Gunner, Pacific Theater.
Jason Robards, US Navy. was aboard heavy cruiser USS Northampton when it was sunk off Guadalcanal. Also served on the USS Nashville during the invasion of the Philippines, surviving a kamikaze hit that caused 223 casualties.
Charlie Callas, US Army.
Steve Reeves, US Army, Philippines.
Dennis Weaver, US Navy. Pilot.
Richard Crenna, US Army. Radioman, Battle of the Bulge. Saw further service in the Pacific after VE Day.
Robert Taylor, US Navy. Instructor Pilot.
Randolph Scott. Tried to enlist in the Marines but was rejected due to injuries sustained in US Army, World War 1.
Ronald Reagan. US Army. Was a 2nd Lt. in the Cavalry Reserves before the war. His poor eyesight kept him from being sent overseas with his unit when war came so he transferred to the Army Air Corps Public Relations Unit where he served for the duration.
John Wayne. Declared "4F medically unfit" due to pre-existing injuries, he nonetheless attempted to volunteer three times(Army, Navy and Film Corps.) so he gets honorable mention.
And of course we have Audie Murphy, America's most-decorated soldier, who became a Hollywood star as a result of his US Army service that included his being awarded the Medal of Honor.
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:salute
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A nice post and summary. :aok
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very interesting. :aok
but iirc Audie Murphy is not the most decorated solder in america.
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Not so sure about John Wayne. I don't think he was ever designated 4F. One thing for sure a lot of servicemen at the time thought he dodged the service. On a visit to hospital he was booed by the wounded Marines there. So the jury is still out on his motivations.
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Not so sure about John Wayne. I don't think he was ever designated 4F. One thing for sure a lot of servicemen at the time thought he dodged the service. On a visit to hospital he was booed by the wounded Marines there. So the jury is still out on his motivations.
Given the studio system of the time and the way they had almost total control of an actor's career, I wouldn't be entirely surprised if the studios themselves conspired to keep him out of the service.
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Wayne was also a bit "aged" at the time. Not really a kid during the war.
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very interesting. :aok
but iirc Audie Murphy is not the most decorated soldier in america.
Bear in mind that he was the most decorated enlisted then brevetted to officer U.S. Army soldier at the end of WWII.
After that: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NysxMe-2dPk
http://www.veterantributes.org/top20mostdecorated.htm
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:salute thanks
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Wayne was also a bit "aged" at the time. Not really a kid during the war.
According to Michael Munn's "John Wayne: The Man Behind the Myth", in 1959, Wayne was personally told by Nikita Khrushchev, when the Soviet Premier was visiting the United States on a goodwill tour, that Joseph Stalin and China's Zedong Mao had each ordered Wayne to be killed. Both dictators had considered Wayne to be a leading icon of American democracy, and thus a symbol of resistance to Communism through his active support for blacklisting in Hollywood, and they believed his death would be a major morale blow to the United States. Khrushchev told Wayne he had rescinded Stalin's order upon his predecessor's demise in March 1953, but Mao supposedly continued to demand Wayne's assassination well into the 1960s.
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Good post.
Some of us had fathers that served with distinction also.
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:salute and thanks...
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The story about Mel Brooks's service goes that during the Battle of the Bulge the Germans were blasting Nazi propaganda over loudspeakers. Brooks fired back with recordings of (Jewish) Al Jolson.
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The difference between yesterday's and today's hollywood.
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The difference between yesterday's and today's hollywood.
... is conscription.
Without the draft and a world war I bet that list would be quite a lot shorter.
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... is conscription.
Without the draft and a world war I bet that list would be quite a lot shorter.
Americans recognizing their greatest generation doesn't seem to sit well with you. Huh.
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Americans recognizing their greatest generation doesn't seem to sit well with you. Huh.
Not at all. More like ragging on their current generation for not doing voluntarily what their forebears was forced to do under pain of death.
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Not at all. More like ragging on their current generation for not doing voluntarily what their forebears was forced to do under pain of death.
I believe you're a might confused with your 'pain of death' rhetoric. That would be German celebrities forced into the Wehrmacht, more like.
The list you're attributing to a draft (and WWI) shows several USMC and Navy veterans. Likely you didn't know those branches didn't draft in the U.S. Even paring it down to U.S. Army, seems you're oblivious to the number of Army volunteers during WWII. I might suggest you research further and point out (accurately) the names on the list that were forced to serve 'under pain of death.'
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I didn't say the list would be non-existent. It would be quite a lot shorter... And draftees were inducted into both the Marine Corps and the Army. The penalty for desertion was death, though only one death sentence was actually carried out.
Today you have a professional military, yet many current celebrities have served, like Ice-T, James Blunt, Rudy Reyes, Mark Valley, Jamie Kaler, Adam Driver, John Huertas, J.R. Martinez and many more. It's just that nobody has made a list of them. Wait 30 years and somebody probably will just to rag on the new generations.
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It would be quite a lot shorter...
I'm challenging you to prove your assertion or retract.
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How do you propose I go about doing that? I don't have access to these people's military records, and their wiki pages just say "served" or "joined" which isn't conclusive. "I bet that list would be quite a lot shorter" isn't conclusive or absolute either...
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How do you propose I go about doing that? I don't have access to these people's military records, and their wiki pages just say "served" or "joined" which isn't conclusive. "I bet that list would be quite a lot shorter" isn't conclusive or absolute either...
Seems you can't prove your assertion. Man up and retract then. :aok
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Why? I still bet that list would be quite a lot shorter if such an investigation was carried out. That is my belief and opinion, nothing more. I have not stated it as fact, so there's nothing to retract.
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Seems you can't prove your assertion. Man up and retract then. :aok
He can't man up so he won't. Let it go Arlo he loves to piss on the ankle of America for some reason. Let him keep ragging, sooner or later he'll end up MIA on the boards like Coombz.
Personally I don't believe the greatest generation would think they were any greater than our current generation of US citizen soldiers or the Vietnam era either. People forget many of those stars that served, served before they were stars.
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And that's my point, regardless of your attacks on my person. Many of today's generations of actors and entertainers have also served in the military. Of the handful I posted most served in combat, and at least two of them were wounded. I don't have a problem with honoring your WWII veterans. However when you use them to attack the current generations who also serve your country, I find it reprehensible. I bet none of those WWII veterans would agree to do them such a disservice.
If you feel this is "pissing on the ankle of America" then so be it. That's your problem.
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If you feel this is "pissing on the ankle of America" then so be it. That's your problem.
Not so much his problem as your fixation. You made your 'observation' and gave your unqualified opinion.
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If you look at the list of the Hollywood stars that were stars at the start of the war you will find most were over the draft age like Clark Gable who was 39 I think. Today can you name a single Hollywood type regardless of age that volunteered after 911. Now I would say that is a very very short list.
No one feels they should have to serve in the military now no matter what happens to America. Less than 1% of the population makes up our military today. I would say that today's youth would benefit greatly if the draft were brought back. Lord knows most of the under 40 crowd could use military service to help them man up and it is an honorable thing to serve. I enlisted and volunteered for Vietnam when most guys my age were trying to dodge the draft. Thanks for posting this list. :aok
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(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26232318/1012007_421496407983076_795252793_n.jpg)
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Somewhere along the way you seem to have imagined that the OP (and everyone else in the thread but you) thinks no celeb volunteered for military service since WWII when, in fact, this thread is acknowledging and honoring the fact that so many did DURING World War II. You've gone off on your own imagined tangent and are trying to take the thread with you.
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Some may have already been mentioned
James Earl Jones: First Lieutenant, U.S. Army
During college, he joined the Reserve Officer Training Corps and became a cadet in the Pershing Rifles Drill Team. Although the Korean War was underway, Jones wasn't activated until 1953. He says he was "washed out" of Ranger training and was instead sent to establish a cold weather training unit in Colorado.
Harvey Keitel: U.S. Marine Corps
Like Gene Hackman, he left home at age 16 to join the Marines, ending up in Lebanon with Operation Blue Bat in 1958. In this 2003 interview, he said, "For me the Marine Corps was a spiritual journey. It's not about war. Our duty is to protect those who do not have the means to protect themselves."
Dennis Franz: Airborne Division, U.S. Army
After graduating from college in 1968, Franz was drafted and immediately enlisted in officer's school. He served 11 months with the 82nd and 101st Airborne Divisions in Vietnam.
Rob Riggle: Lieutenant Colonel, U.S. Marine Corps Reserve
This former 'Daily Show' correspondent, also seen in 'The Hangover' and 'The Other Guys,' has served in Liberia, Kosovo, and Afghanistan, earning over 19 medals and ribbons for heroism in combat. He is also a Public Affairs Officer with the United States Marine Corps Reserve.
Clint Eastwood: Swimming Instructor, U.S. Army
Drafted in 1950, during the Korean War. He was stationed at Fort Ord in California, where, thanks to his lifeguard training, he served as a swimming instructor. He saw the most action on leave: In 1951, a bomber he was in crashed in the ocean near Point Reyes. He and the pilot swam three miles to shore.
Rachel Washburn is a former Philadelphia Eagles cheerleader (2007-09) who hung up her pom poms in favor of Army fatigues. She recently finished her second tour in Afghanistan.
(http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg229/WWhiskey/f8e67827f5a259ef8bdddbceefc0085b_zpsf185b8f0.jpg)
There are more, that's just a few I found
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Somewhere along the way you seem to have imagined that the OP (and everyone else in the thread but you) thinks no celeb volunteered for military service since WWII when, in fact, this thread is acknowledging and honoring the fact that so many did DURING World War II. You've gone off on your own imagined tangent and are trying to take the thread with you.
This is the post I take exception to. Not the original post or the thread in general:
The difference between yesterday's and today's hollywood.
I though it was pretty obvious since I quoted it in my post. Apparently not... :huh
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This is the post I take exception to. Not the original post or the thread in general:
I though it was pretty obvious since I quoted it in my post. Apparently not... :huh
You went beyond when you attempted to downplay the OP with the draft and 'forced upon pain of death' rhetoric. This thread was a reboot to avoid politics. If you can't manage to retract your false assertion you could at least just stop repeating yourself to the point of nuisance.
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Somewhere along the way you seem to have imagined that the OP (and everyone else in the thread but you) thinks no celeb volunteered for military service since WWII when, in fact, this thread is acknowledging and honoring the fact that so many did DURING World War II. You've gone off on your own imagined tangent and are trying to take the thread with you.
In the original locked thread the OP did in fact effectively criticise the current generation of celebrities for not going to war in the same way as the WW2 generation. But because he drifted into political comment it was locked, quite rightly. So it's not GScholz's imagination. The thread is still there if you want to look.
However the comparisons are unfair and invalid in my opinion. First off WW2 was a World War. Everyone was in it effectively even if you stayed at home. In some countries the war came to you whether you liked it or not and for the most part most believed believed in the war. You cannot say the same for recent conflicts Secondly there simply isn't the need for the manpower needed in WW2. Not only that the modern soldier requires a lot more training than the WW2 soldier. So even if Brad Pitt or Johnny Depp felt the need to serve. They would probably be told, thanks but no thanks. Certainly anyone above a certain age would not be considered. Also having a celebrity in a unit would single it out for special attention from unfriendlies. Which is exactly the reason Britain's Prince Harry was brought home.
There's also another point which seems to have been missed. Not everyone on that list was famous at the time of enlistment or draft. Most of them would be ordinary Joe Schmos at the time, completely unknown simply doing their duty. You can be there are current and former military who are even now on the road to fame and fortune. Not as many as WW2 that's for sure. But WW2 was a one off. It's also worth pointing out that there was a general reluctance to let the famous actors anywhere near the front line.
It's perfectly legitimate to honour those who served in WW2 but the OP originally used that to denigrate the current generation and make a political point. As Skuzzy put it: Well, it would have been a fine post had you not mentioned politics.
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Excellent post. My thoughts exactly.
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And that's my point, regardless of your attacks on my person. Many of today's generations of actors and entertainers have also served in the military. Of the handful I posted most served in combat, and at least two of them were wounded. I don't have a problem with honoring your WWII veterans. However when you use them to attack the current generations who also serve your country, I find it reprehensible. I bet none of those WWII veterans would agree to do them such a disservice.
If you feel this is "pissing on the ankle of America" then so be it. That's your problem.
Pointing out your behavior is not a personal attack. If you think it is.. Well, that is your problem. Nobody least of all Arlo or myself attacked today's generation of our military. One person made a remark comparing the two generations. As usual you jump on your soapbox and paint with a broad brush. Since when do you give a damn about our military? Your normal course of action is to belittle them saying things like they can only do battle with sheep herders. As the father of two Iraq combat vets I find your remarks in multiple threads about our military way more reprehensible than anything anybody else has said in here. Yet here you are trying to act like a champion of our military? I don't buy it, you don't care about this generation or the ones that proceed them. You just like to instigate and troll and you'll jump on either side of the fence to do it. That's fine, play the game. If you want go girlie and act like a victim when you get called on it. That's your problem too.
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In the original locked thread the OP did in fact effectively criticise the current generation of celebrities for not going to war in the same way as the WW2 generation. But because he drifted into political comment it was locked, quite rightly. So it's not GScholz's imagination. The thread is still there if you want to look.
However the comparisons are unfair and invalid in my opinion. First off WW2 was a World War. Everyone was in it effectively even if you stayed at home. In some countries the war came to you whether you liked it or not and for the most part most believed believed in the war. You cannot say the same for recent conflicts Secondly there simply isn't the need for the manpower needed in WW2. Not only that the modern soldier requires a lot more training than the WW2 soldier. So even if Brad Pitt or Johnny Depp felt the need to serve. They would probably be told, thanks but no thanks. Certainly anyone above a certain age would not be considered. Also having a celebrity in a unit would single it out for special attention from unfriendlies. Which is exactly the reason Britain Prince Harry was brought home.
There's also another point which seems to have been missed. Not everyone on that list was famous at the time of enlistment or draft. Most of them would be ordinary Joe Schmos at the time, completely unknown simply doing their duty. You can be there are current and former military who are even now on the road to fame and fortune. Not as many as WW2 that's for sure. But WW2 was a one off. It's also worth pointing out that there was a general reluctance to let the famous actors anywhere near the front line.
It's perfectly legitimate to honour those who served in WW2 but the OP originally used that to denigrate the current generation and make a political point. As Skuzzy put it:
1. This is a new thread and was adjusted to be more fitting. As such, it is indeed perfectly legitimate to honor those who served in WW2 (and other wars) which is what THIS thread represents.
2. GScholz appears to feel compelled to downplay it (inferring the list misrepresents volunteer service by a large margin) for reasons known but to him (though it's an established trend). The existence of the prior thread does not legitimize GScholz's issues in this one.
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Not so sure about John Wayne. I don't think he was ever designated 4F. One thing for sure a lot of servicemen at the time thought he dodged the service. On a visit to hospital he was booed by the wounded Marines there. So the jury is still out on his motivations.
Perforated eardrums..... Declared 4F.
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Not so much his problem as your fixation. You made your 'observation' and gave your unqualified opinion.
when did you become such and expert so as to called somebody else's "unqualified opinion".
semp
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(W)hen did you become such (an) expert so as to (call) somebody else's (opinion "unqualified")(?)
Expertise. Huh. Feel free to take over for him and qualify his assertion since you're eager to step in (it). How many on the OP's list did not volunteer for service?
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Expertise. Huh. Feel free to take over for him and qualify his assertion since you're eager to step in (it). How many on the OP's list did not volunteer for service?
well I'll tell you what. since the information you requested is not available. but what is available is when each of those became famous. and most became famous after the war. there were a few who were famous actors before the war. some served to entertain the troops, some did radio and some never left the united states. and some never saw combat. I dont think it takes away from how honorable they served.
look up mickey rooney, robert mitchum, telly savalas, robert stack. and those are only the ones I recognize. and again their contribution to the war effort was not any less. and I am not saying anything other than they served honorably and i am proud of them.
but if you go down the list of every single one and you will see that most were not famous when they went to war. they became famous after the war but not because of what they did in the war. for example ed macmahon and johny carson. they were not famous actors who joined the war. they were war veterans who became famous actors.
20 or 30 years from now we gonna have a good portion of actors, actresses and and even some politicians who will be famous after the war is over. perhaps will have some "band of brothers" series about our boys who fought in the middle east.
semp
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well I'll tell you what. since the information you requested is not available. but what is available is when each of those became famous. and most became famous after the war. there were a few who were famous actors before the war. some served to entertain the troops, some did radio and some never left the united states. and some never saw combat. I dont think it takes away from how honorable they served.
look up mickey rooney, robert mitchum, telly savalas, robert stack. and those are only the ones I recognize. and again their contribution to the war effort was not any less. and I am not saying anything other than they served honorably and i am proud of them.
but if you go down the list of every single one and you will see that most were not famous when they went to war. they became famous after the war but not because of what they did in the war. for example ed macmahon and johny carson. they were not famous actors who joined the war. they were war veterans who became famous actors.
20 or 30 years from now we gonna have a good portion of actors, actresses and and even some politicians who will be famous after the war is over. perhaps will have some "band of brothers" series about our boys who fought in the middle east.
semp
:huh
This is what you've decided to defend:
... is conscription.
Without the draft and a world war I bet that list would be quite a lot shorter.
Not at all. More like ragging on their current generation for not doing voluntarily what their forebears was forced to do under pain of death.
Feel free to give it another go.
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And I stand by what I said. Using the merits of WWII veterans to discredit the current generation is ugly, and not something I expect those veterans would consent to. As for the situational differences between WWII and the present Cpxxx described it much better, and more positive than I.
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:huh
This is what you've decided to defend:
Feel free to give it another go.
nope, i was questioning your expertise when you made this statement.
Not so much his problem as your fixation. You made your 'observation' and gave your unqualified opinion.
I just posted information not that famous stars who went to war, but on war veterans who became famous stars. feel free to contradict my post.
semp
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nope, i was questioning your expertise when you made this statement.
I just posted information not that famous stars who went to war, but on war veterans who became famous stars. feel free to contradict my post.
semp
You posted something that had nothing to do with what I'm challenging GScholz to qualify.
You don't understand what 'qualifying an assertion' means, do you? :D
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And I stand by what I said. Using the merits of WWII veterans to discredit the current generation is ugly, and not something I expect those veterans would consent to. As for the situational differences between WWII and the present Cpxxx described it much better, and more positive than I.
You are tap-dancing after making a questionable assertion. And you're apparently emotionally stuck in a previous thread.
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You posted something that had nothing to do with what I'm challenging GScholz to qualify.
You don't understand what 'qualifying an assertion' means, do you? :D
what makes you think that you are qualified to make that statement. please feel free to enlighten me with your fabulous education.
and what I posted was exactly what you were challenging gscholz on.
semp
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what makes you think that you are qualified to make that statement. please feel free to enlighten me with your fabulous education.
and what I posted was exactly what you were challenging gscholz on.
semp
Could you and GScholz start a new thread so you can continue to discuss what you both think this thread is about there and get that thread locked? Fall into each other's confused arms and find bliss. :aok
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I responded to a post on page one of this thread that carried on the ragging of the current generations from the previous thread. However, I consider the matter closed.
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I responded to a post on page one of this thread that carried on the ragging of the current generations from the previous thread. However, I consider the matter closed.
You drug your issues from that thread here as if Skuzzy's warning then lock never happened. You shoulda let it go then. Whether the term 'better late than never' applies remains to be seen. You are habitual.
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Could you and GScholz start a new thread so you can continue to discuss what you both think this thread is about there and get that thread locked? Fall into each other's confused arms and find bliss. :aok
no the problem is that you keep arguing that the younger generation isnt as motivated as the older generation from ww2. but you arent comparing the same thing. the older generation has had 70 years to make it on the list. the list has people that have been dead for 30 or even 40 years. and you want to compare it to the new generation that has been at war for 10 or less and arent yet famous.
in another 20 or 30 years we will have a lot of war vets who will be famous from our current generation.
semp
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The other thread was locked because the original poster couldn't keep his politics out of it, not because of this issue.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vItvfU6SD7k
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no the problem is that you keep arguing that the younger generation isnt as motivated as the older generation from ww2. but you arent comparing the same thing. the older generation has had 70 years to make it on the list. the list has people that have been dead for 30 or even 40 years. and you want to compare it to the new generation that has been at war for 10 or less and arent yet famous.
in another 20 or 30 years we will have a lot of war vets who will be famous from our current generation.
semp
Actually, no. That's not my problem. That's not my assertion. You may need to learn to read and not emulate GScholz
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The other thread was locked because the original poster couldn't keep his politics out of it, not because of this issue.
Your issue.
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Actually, no. That's not my problem. That's not my assertion. You may need to learn to read and not emulate GScholz
then what is your problem, assertion or argument?
semp
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then what is your problem, assertion or argument?
semp
Neither GScholz's inability to qualify his assertion nor your coming into the thread to defend him are my problems. I put him on the spot and you thought it looked comfortable enough for the both of you as a couple. :aok
Learn to backtrack a thread, Semp.
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Neither GScholz's inability to qualify his assertion nor your coming into the thread to defend him are my problems. I put him on the spot and you thought it looked comfortable enough for the both of you as a couple. :aok
Learn to backtrack a thread, Semp.
and you cant prove that he's wrong either. can you? currently we have 16 members in congress who served in iraq and Afghanistan. as time passes by there will be more vets in congress and more vets who will be famous in other areas from the current generation.
can you prove that I am wrong?
semp
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and you cant prove that he's wrong either. can you? currently we have 16 members in congress who served in iraq and Afghanistan. as time passes by there will be more vets in congress and more vets who will be famous in other areas from the current generation.
can you prove that I am wrong?
semp
Read carefully: GScholz posted an assertion that if it wasn't for the draft (and WWI because, um, for some reason that lent more credence to the former) the list posted by the OP would be considerably shorter. It was up to him to prove his assertion if challenged. I did just that, I challenged it. He apparently went to Wiki to find said proof then said he couldn't (he couldn't qualify his statement - that made it an unqualified opinion - not a qualified fact). Not sure how far down the list he went before he got frustrated.
Take over and save GScholz from the apparently devastating embarrassment of retracting his assertion by proving that enough names on the list were drafted and served against their will and, as such, shorten said list significantly when it comes to volunteer service. Wouldn't that be better than deflecting for him? :D
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The other thread was locked because the original poster couldn't keep his politics out of it, not because of this issue.
Been gone a few days.
I never said any such thing. If you would have read my post that was locked, you would see and read that I cut and pasted the post. I didn't get the politics of another person edited out. I didn't create that list. I cut and pasted it. Comprehend? I cut and pasted it from another forum. Don't be posting what I didn't say. I never said I created it, I said I cut and pasted it.
I have the utmost respect for those who served then, and those who serve now.
I just wanted to post that list as I was fascinated at what some of my favorite actors did to serve during that time back then. Nothing more, nothing less. Boy, talk about making a mountain out of a molehill...
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You've gone into full troll mode Arlo. Desperately trying to push buttons, but failing. I stand by what I said, and if given the opportunity (I doubt it) I will try to prove it. Also if someone proves me wrong I will change my opinion.
However, there are facts available that support my "assertion" as you put it. During WWII more than 10 million men were drafted into military service (according to Wikipedia at least). Since the U.S. went to war in Afghanistan in 2001 and Iraq in 2003, about 2.5 million members of the Army, Navy, Marines, Air Force, Coast Guard and related Reserve and National Guard units have been deployed in the Afghanistan and Iraq wars. Of those, more than a third were deployed more than once.
Obviously the statistics will favor the largest war in human history, over a low intensity conflict. Also the draft matters, because a professional army is a job career that goes beyond just fighting a war until it's over. Conscripts go home when the war ends... And some become celebrities.
And to quote a veteran named David Simmons:
"I am a 79 year old volunteer veteran of the Army Air Corps in WWII. The number of ridiculous myths about WWII, particularly those by Tom Brokaw (The Greatest Generation) and some by Steven Ambrose, make me gag. The idea that it was "one for all and all for one" is not only wrong, it borders on ludicrous. And I went into the Army in 1943 so I don't know if things got tenser as the war went on. But I doubt if they got any easier.
The incidence of AWOL, in Europe at least, in WWII was much higher than in Vietnam (or, for that matter, in Korea). During the Battle of the Bulge in Dec. and Jan. 1944-45 riflemen were in such short supply that cooks and bakers and company clerks who hadn't had any infantry training since Extended Order Drill in Basic Training were put into the line. At the same time, according to historian John Tolandin Battle: Story of the Bulge, the equivalent of a division of infantry was AWOL somewhere in France.
Not that we were all a bunch of gold-bricks, but we were far from the unified heroes as Tom Brokaw would have it. The war was regarded as a nasty job that had to be done so it was. But very few people went out of their way to push themselves forward into the thick of the action. If we had to go we went, for the most part anyway, and that was about the size of it.
By they way, this is all my view of things. I'm sure you will find others who remember WWII differently."
They did their duty to their nation. Nothing more. Nothing less. The current generations are doing the same.
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Been gone a few days.
I never said any such thing. If you would have read my post that was locked, you would see and read that I cut and pasted the post. I didn't get the politics of another person edited out. I didn't create that list. I cut and pasted it. Comprehend? [snip]...
I thought it was your own words and opinions. I'm sorry to have misjudged you.
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You've gone into full troll mode Arlo.
Bless your innocent and maligned soul. :lol
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perhaps will have some "band of brothers" series about our boys who fought in the middle east.
Some of the "Shootout" series on the History Channel on that topic are great:
D-Day: Fallujah
Battle for Baghdad
Iraq's Ambush Alley
Battlecry Iraq: Ramadi
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Bless your innocent and maligned soul. :lol
i bet you failed math too. did you know that 2+2=4 is not always true? did you know that 2 lbs of gold and 2 lbs of cotton does not equal 4 lbs?
that's why you cannot understand that even though during ww2 the population in the united states was less than 40% of what is now but the number of soldiers who served as a percentage was higher than today. and it was all because of the draft. not saying that many wouldn't have volunteered by then again it would have never been 100% volunteer like it is now.
just food for thought: out of that list how many were famous a year or two after war 2 ended or even before? that would give a better comparison to how many are famous today that fought in iraq/afghanistan.
semp
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i bet you failed math too. did you know that 2+2=4 is not always true? did you know that 2 lbs of gold and 2 lbs of cotton does not equal 4 lbs?
that's why you cannot understand that even though during ww2 the population in the united states was less than 40% of what is now but the number of soldiers who served as a percentage was higher than today. and it was all because of the draft. not saying that many wouldn't have volunteered by then again it would have never been 100% volunteer like it is now.
just food for thought: out of that list how many were famous a year or two after war 2 ended or even before? that would give a better comparison to how many are famous today that fought in iraq/afghanistan.
semp
(http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/gallery/no/jake-no.gif)
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(http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/gallery/no/jake-no.gif)
so you admit you dont understand why 2+2=4 isnt always true. or which of the other statements you dont understand. I'll be happy to explain it to you.
semp
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Posting anything, which says anything positive about anyone, on our board, will always turn into a derogatory mess.
It should be a forum posting rule.