Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: Les Paul on March 13, 2014, 08:09:56 PM
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So, last night it came to the conclusion that my aim really sucked in this game because of rudder and elevator bouncing when making fine adjustments. , I have played some other WWII Sims out there in which the planes were a lot more janky when using a joystick, and so out of necessity to even fly the plane, I had to really start messing around with my joystick settings. Unfortunately, all the games love to use different terminology for the different sensitivity options and what not. I understand headband and damping pretty well, and found that I like 0 dead band on the joystick itself, with a slight amount on the twisting (Rudder) functions for obvious reasons. Damping is pretty much the same story with me, 0 on the joystick, a hair on the rudder.
Scaling however is something I don't understand that well since the other games I have played had different methods and figures to adjust it. I found that I preferred scaling to be turned off but I still think my joystick and rudders are a bit too sensitive and I am still flying too janky. How can I go about correcting this, and does anyone want to share some of their settings for their pitch, roll, and yaw axis's? I think it would be a good idea to have some sort of thread reference that can give new players an idea of some commonly used advanced settings, or at least a perspective on settings some other people fly with.
My main question is this tho, If I do a flat curve on the scaling, but lower it from maximum, am I going to lose any range in my control surface's movement? I find myself to be very heavy handed with the rudder function, and I want to decrease sensitivity without effecting the maneuver potential of my plane
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I dont believe so.
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I use this for everything except throttle. Seems to reduce nose bounce
(http://s16.postimg.org/osh843mcx/ackackstick.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/osh843mcx/)
Click on pic to enlarge.
This is an older pic posted by Ack-Ack using the old interface but the setting still hold true.
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My aileron looks like Max's-akak but to prevent nose bounce my elevator curves starts out at the bottom.
Could be you have it too sensitive and you end chasing the dog's tail by correcting the correcting.
Watch for a tight hand on the joystick.
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Something to test.
In aces high go into the controllers app where you set the scaling. Look at your x, y axis and do the following.
Put you finger on the top of your stick and wiggle it just a tiny bit. If your x, y numbers move around easily, that's the source of your inability to hold steady when shooting. And the reason for the dead zone, dampening, and scaling.
I got rid of it completely by modifying my Fighter stick with tension bands that slip over the potentiometer yokes and solidly lock the x, y to it's centered state along with very strong physical feed back like a real stick pulling against cables.
Most sticks have light springs compared to how strong your hand and wrist is. Even resting your hand on your stick can cause x, y bouncing. Damping and dead band is used to account for those micro bumps in the center. The wider you set these you start running into dead band induced nose bounce while your stick travels from one side to the other of the dead zone. You can see this graphically by going offline and upping the Ju87-G2. Dive on something at full zoom and watch the center of the gunsight bump as you pass your joystick through the dead banded area you set. Or even your rudder peddles.
You can see it go from: control-bump-dead zone-bump-control
It's when the passing back into control happens you suddenly have to control back on your dive path to micro adjust your aim. The same thing will show up with your rudder because the mass of the BK3,7 guns magnify yaw and over control or other issues with your rudder controller. Consider whats going on with your high speed fighter during ACM.
Get a copy of DIView. It will show you the state of all axis and buttons on your controllers. It will give you an excellent look at the state of your x, y on your joystick.
Free DIView.exe from SimSteering: http://www.simsteering.com/downloads.html
Another thing you can do to cut down on over control since it's only a joystick in a game. Edit the (jsm) file for your joystick, even your rudder pedals z-axis. Locate the x, y calibration lines. Add 5k-10k to the 0 end and delete 5k-10k from the 65k end. Before doing this make a backup copy of the file. If you don't like the results, use the backup copy. Add and delete equally to each end.
Now you don't have to bang your stick from side to side to get full aileron deflection and it becomes a matter of a slight wrist motion to perform maneuvers. Having to full deflect your joystick is what weakens the springs over time. I'm not sure I even use more than half deflection now on my stick for full aileron or elevators. My rudder about the same.
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Les, go to the TA and get with Morfiend, he helped me get mine to settle down very quickly.
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My problem with the scaling of my stick is for some reason I can't slide the scaling setting on the advanced stick setting page. My old ST-290 stick is 8 years old and was used when I got it and worked great until lately. All the buttons work but the stick will not stay calibrated anymore. If I touch the hat button while in auto pilot the stick falls out of auto pilot. I have unplug the stick to reset it but still have a problem. :headscratch:
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My problem with the scaling of my stick is for some reason I can't slide the scaling setting on the advanced stick setting page. My old ST-290 stick is 8 years old and was used when I got it and worked great until lately. All the buttons work but the stick will not stay calibrated anymore. If I touch the hat button while in auto pilot the stick falls out of auto pilot. I have unplug the stick to reset it but still have a problem. :headscratch:
Did you click the "allow scaling" button at the top? That should get the sliders moving, add deadband space to get it to stop falling out of autopilot. Increasing deadband increases the space your stick has to move before it actually changes the input to the game. With the advanced window open look at the two blue boxes. One showes what the stick inputs are, and one shows what the game sees for inputs. As you move the deadband slider up your stick input will still be wiggling, but the game input side should slow until its says put. Move it just a bit at a time, half a buttons worth. Get it so the game side sits still and save.
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Thanks I will take a look.
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My problem with the scaling of my stick is for some reason I can't slide the scaling setting on the advanced stick setting page. My old ST-290 stick is 8 years old and was used when I got it and worked great until lately. All the buttons work but the stick will not stay calibrated anymore. If I touch the hat button while in auto pilot the stick falls out of auto pilot. I have unplug the stick to reset it but still have a problem. :headscratch:
Download DIView I linked to, it's just a zip file. Extract DIView.exe and run it. Then look at the x, y axis of your joystick. If the scales are going back and forth and the input windows are rolling by. You have a problem with your potentiometers.
If the back and forth in the x and y scales is small, dampening and dead zone in the advanced stick scaling in the game will fix it until the potentiometers degrade to the point that a dead zone will have to be so large your inputs will be useless for flying in the game.
DIView allows you to see your raw inputs as they are happening in gory detail by simply running the program. There is no rocket science associated with using the tool.
First you need to see what is really happening with your x and y inputs.
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Download DIView....
thanx for that link...cool program :aok
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I must be missing something on the stick settings im not doing right,regardless of how i set up scaling,no scaling AK-AKs scaling,scaling all the way up down,or in between, im using all CH equipment,i dont turn as fast as other guys,i bleed E within 5 seconds, or i black out then auger,let alone flying in the MA,or mw.I get guys on my 6 within 2 passes,Im increasingly getting frustrated,flaps no flaps wep doesnt seem to matter,cant get the response out of the stick that i "think i need"or should have..any tips to this dilemma. thank you
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Do you have the stall limiter on in options/preferences/flight ?
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It sounds like you need help with fighting, not your stick.
Changing your stick setting isn't going to magically get you on the other guys 6. What looks like a sharp turn may be a turn that was started long before you started your turn. Best bet would be to hook up with a trainer and they will be able to tell which it is, you or your stick.
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My stick problems were my 10 year old ST-290. I got a new ST-290 off of EBay still in the box for $21.00 shipped and all is well again. :aok
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I am in the middle of making a video about this topic as we speak.
It can be quite simple or quite complex, depending on how you use your stick and that is the key.
In a nutshell, the 10 sliders allow you to tailor your input curves. It is not damping. Damping literally slows the input. These sliders require a percentage of input before making a difference. If they are all at the top, it means the stick inputs are linear (first slider = 0-65.535, second slider = 65.536-131.07....).
If you are looking to smooth or lighten the initial inputs, then start the first slider near the bottom, and draw a straight line from there to the last slider being at the top. This will give you a true exponential input curve. Form there, adjust to fit your needs.
One last thing to note. When you go full deflection, with your stick, these curves will not matter.
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I have no doubt its me more than anything, i probably just need to get with trainers for awhile and unlearn bad habits ive taught myself.this isnt the kind of game where you just hold a controller and shoot everything around you,i know for some guys it is!!Ill head to the TA for proper tutoring:salute
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That sounds awsome Skuzzy, its been one of those things where for the last year or so,no matter who ive talked with its a preference unique to the person and how they fly,so ive found from time to time i change my scaling with the hope it will improve how i dogfight,more times than not it ends in getting shot down.So ive finally realized its a lack of knowledge of flying more than anything,with that being said, im totally addicted to this game like some sort of junkie looking forward to the updates and learning all about the scaling also thank you!!
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Well, I can say that I have yet to find a stick scaling that seems to always allow me gun platform stability in a range of situations. A bandit a turn of any sort, theoretically harder, remains about the easiest target. Meanwhile a stalled out bandit below me or a bandit showing his six, theoretically easy prey, remains among the hardest on many occasions.
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Well, I can say that I have yet to find a stick scaling that seems to always allow me gun platform stability in a range of situations. A bandit a turn of any sort, theoretically harder, remains about the easiest target. Meanwhile a stalled out bandit below me or a bandit showing his six, theoretically easy prey, remains among the hardest on many occasions.
In a turn you have the stick back. If you trim nose down you'll have the stick back for all your shots. This can be helpful if you have deadband or center play.
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I am in the middle of making a video about this topic as we speak.
It can be quite simple or quite complex, depending on how you use your stick and that is the key.
In a nutshell, the 10 sliders allow you to tailor your input curves. It is not damping. Damping literally slows the input. These sliders require a percentage of input before making a difference. If they are all at the top, it means the stick inputs are linear (first slider = 0-65.535, second slider = 65.536-131.07....).
If you are looking to smooth or lighten the initial inputs, then start the first slider near the bottom, and draw a straight line from there to the last slider being at the top. This will give you a true exponential input curve. Form there, adjust to fit your needs.
One last thing to note. When you go full deflection, with your stick, these curves will not matter.
So if I lower my input at the 90 lever it will still give me full deflection? Am I missing something? :headscratch:
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So if I lower my input at the 90 lever it will still give me full deflection? Am I missing something? :headscratch:
If you slam your stick to full deflection, there is no point in doing any scaling as the velocity ramp of the input will be defined by the maximum stick velocity allowed for that plane.
If you stop 1 tick before full deflection, then the input curves can have an impact.
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So if I lower my input at the 90 lever it will still give me full deflection? Am I missing something? :headscratch:
Keep in mind that most of the time in fighters full back on the stick will instantly result in an accelerated stall.
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Keep in mind that most of the time in fighters full back on the stick will instantly result in an accelerated stall.
I still try to understand Skuzzy's reply.
I can full deflect at the right speed in every plane without stall, no issue there. Wings might snap but that's another story. :devil
Skuzzy, may I ask you to explain me the components of stick input and how they are interpreted in game?
Also, as I run A T|M Warthog, is it adviseable to run any stick manufacturers programming software or is it just another layer to delay / slow things down?
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A long time ago Changeup directed me to a screenshot of his settings for the reason of no longer getting "move controls so rapidly." My settings for deadband and damping are almost the exact other end of the spectrum from the picture of AckAck's. I've been feeling/seeing for a while now that when I want to make a move at the merge that the moment I initiate it, the bandit has already started his turn as if we thought it at the same time, but his stick responded sooner. The more this has happened the more I've noticed how long it is taking my stick to get the inputs, much longer than I ever thought...
I still use the Logitcech 3dpro. Is there a way I could reduce the amount of deadband & damping I put in there without going back to get the "controls so rapidly" ?
:salute
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It may sound snarky but the solution is don't move your controls so quickly. Then you can use zero or minimal damping and get better control response.
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I still use the Logitcech 3dpro. Is there a way I could reduce the amount of deadband & damping I put in there without going back to get the "controls so rapidly" ?
:salute
A couple of things that helped me past the problem to the dreaded moving controls too fast error. First, get off by yourself and try to get the error intentionally. When you can do it every time, you will have a good idea of what it takes to get the lock controls.
Second, save your setting just in case. Now reset your scaling to default. Now go to the offline and call up the target at say 400. Zoom to max. Try to hold on the center. Start adjusting the scaling sliders until you can hold without much bounce.
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If you have trouble holding center on the target I would look at trim before changing scaling. Try to avoid a center dead spot when shooting by trimming nose down a little.
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If you have trouble holding center on the target I would look at trim before changing scaling. Try to avoid a center dead spot when shooting by trimming nose down a little.
FLS i use the zoom method of scaling as a way to amplify the problem allowing fine tuning of the scaling. Not sure the OP mentioned a holding center but keeps getting hit my the "moving controls too fast" lockup. Useful scaling will help in both shooting and the lockup.
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The only thing scaling changes is the ease of making small inputs near the joystick's center position. The trade off is any time you aren't at your trim speed you are making a bigger input then you expect. If you are trimmed you are moving the stick through any deadband in the center position.
Damping is the adjustment to stop locking up the stick but then you degrade the stick response with delay. The solution for the OP is learning to be easy on the stick and rudder.
Before I extended my stick I used default scaling on the pitch axis. I played with fine tuning and decided that any tweaking of the default setting was a psychological benefit at best. Other players will disagree. Scaling is a personal preference and if you prefer a custom setting that's fine. I recommend trying scaling on the pitch axis and rudder axis and comparing it to no scaling but I personally don't see a real advantage to tweaking the default setting.
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A long time ago Changeup directed me to a screenshot of his settings for the reason of no longer getting "move controls so rapidly." My settings for deadband and damping are almost the exact other end of the spectrum from the picture of AckAck's. I've been feeling/seeing for a while now that when I want to make a move at the merge that the moment I initiate it, the bandit has already started his turn as if we thought it at the same time, but his stick responded sooner. The more this has happened the more I've noticed how long it is taking my stick to get the inputs, much longer than I ever thought...
I still use the Logitcech 3dpro. Is there a way I could reduce the amount of deadband & damping I put in there without going back to get the "controls so rapidly" ?
:salute
Two things can cause that message. 1) You are moving your controls too fast. 2) The stick is spiking badly.
In my experience, Logitech sticks have about 6 months of useful life before they start spiking so bad they need to be replaced.
Easy to see how much spiking there is. Select a suspect axis (or progressively heck each one), open the "Advanced" panel, and watch the graphs as you slowly move the stick to the extents of the selected axis.
The raw graph is what you want to watch. Spiking should be apparent, if that is the cause of the issue.
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Something to test.
In aces high go into the controllers app where you set the scaling. Look at your x, y axis and do the following.
Put you finger on the top of your stick and wiggle it just a tiny bit. If your x, y numbers move around easily, that's the source of your inability to hold steady when shooting. And the reason for the dead zone, dampening, and scaling.
I got rid of it completely by modifying my Fighter stick with tension bands that slip over the potentiometer yokes and solidly lock the x, y to it's centered state along with very strong physical feed back like a real stick pulling against cables.
Most sticks have light springs compared to how strong your hand and wrist is. Even resting your hand on your stick can cause x, y bouncing. Damping and dead band is used to account for those micro bumps in the center. The wider you set these you start running into dead band induced nose bounce while your stick travels from one side to the other of the dead zone. You can see this graphically by going offline and upping the Ju87-G2. Dive on something at full zoom and watch the center of the gunsight bump as you pass your joystick through the dead banded area you set. Or even your rudder peddles.
You can see it go from: control-bump-dead zone-bump-control
It's when the passing back into control happens you suddenly have to control back on your dive path to micro adjust your aim. The same thing will show up with your rudder because the mass of the BK3,7 guns magnify yaw and over control or other issues with your rudder controller. Consider whats going on with your high speed fighter during ACM.
Get a copy of DIView. It will show you the state of all axis and buttons on your controllers. It will give you an excellent look at the state of your x, y on your joystick.
Free DIView.exe from SimSteering: http://www.simsteering.com/downloads.html
Another thing you can do to cut down on over control since it's only a joystick in a game. Edit the (jsm) file for your joystick, even your rudder pedals z-axis. Locate the x, y calibration lines. Add 5k-10k to the 0 end and delete 5k-10k from the 65k end. Before doing this make a backup copy of the file. If you don't like the results, use the backup copy. Add and delete equally to each end.
Now you don't have to bang your stick from side to side to get full aileron deflection and it becomes a matter of a slight wrist motion to perform maneuvers. Having to full deflect your joystick is what weakens the springs over time. I'm not sure I even use more than half deflection now on my stick for full aileron or elevators. My rudder about the same.
Thx on this one Bustr, yet I do have a question:
In the JSM file you see a lot of numbers between 0.0 and 100. Do these represent your settings in scaling? If so, can you adjust these instead of using the scaling?
Here a copy of my JSM:
Joystick - HOTAS Warthog
2,33
Y-as
0,32767,65535,0.027000,0.208000,0.250000
AXIS,PITCH,0,1
0.02,0.29,0.50,0.68,0.81,0.90,0.95,0.97,0.99,1.00
NOTUSED,NOTUSED,0,0
NOTUSED,NOTUSED,0,0
NOTUSED,NOTUSED,0,0
X-as
0,32768,65535,0.012000,0.000000,0.250000
AXIS,ROLL,0,0
NOTUSED,NOTUSED,0,0
NOTUSED,NOTUSED,0,0
NOTUSED,NOTUSED,0,0
Thx for the help!